Hi peterchiang, to your question, I would reply that it would be more difficult to unite the non-Malay minorities because of the fact there are so many diverse and subsect views and values. This is also true for the Malays, but there is more of a rapport between them simply because they share the same faith.

If you we want an ‘orang Malaysia’ and a bangsa Malaysia, why do we still carry your historical baggage from ‘back home’? Why do we still identify ourselves with our ethnicity and languages? Bangsa Malaysia is about having a strong common platform that everyone can recognise, relate to and share with. Where is this common bond between the different ethnicities and religions?

Please also feel free to see my post on the “UMNO-PAS Malay Unity talks” thread:

http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/07/22/umno-pas-%e2%80%9cmalay-unity%e2%80%9d-talks

On BN, I would say that their days are numbered because for far too long, they have ignored the winds of change (which are getting stronger) and the mismanagement of national wealth and having no foresight for national development as they once did. The alternative to BN may not be as straightforward as you might think though.

dawsheng, I do not ‘speak for PAS’ and it is these assumption and allegations that are making Malaysian politics the laughing stock of the world.

As to why PAS agreed to Muzakarah with UMNO on a platform of Malay unity and Islam; I believe I have answered a little of this over at the “UMNO-PAS Malay Unity talks” thread. It would however be prudent to point out that race and religion have become so intertwined in Malaysian politics, pulling them apart will need more than a generation of reform.

I think you are reading too much into AAB’s comments. UMNO at the moment, is at the losing edge and need to be seen to be capitalising on anything that can be spun their way. PAS is neither naive (from past experiences with UMNO) nor short-sighted to see that they are the lynchpin.

Malay unity is a pre-requisite for national stability. The opposition understands this well, hence the reason why they do not object to the mudhakara.

I’m sorry you were not able to understand my paragraph about ‘bangsa Malaysia’. Let me help you through it. I wrote:

>> If you we want an ‘orang Malaysia’ and a bangsa Malaysia, why do we still carry your historical baggage from ‘back home’?

Most non-Malays continue to identify themselves with the country of their namesake. We continue to identify ourselves with the languages we speak and with the culture we are ingrained with from our namesake countries (i.e. India and China). We continue to seek a heritage that runs paralell to Malaysia’s own. Do you think these things facilitate or impede the “Bangsa Malaysia” concept?

>> Bangsa Malaysia is about having a strong common platform that everyone can recognise, relate to and share with. Where is this common bond between the different ethnicities and religions?

If you want to work for a “Malaysian Malaysia”, you need to define, show and lead by example how this can be accomplished with so many different ethnicities and religions and values that Malaysians hold?

Thank you…

m.hwang, thank you for your response. If you read my post carefully, you will see I wrote:

“Most non-Malays continue to identify themselves with the country of their namesake. We continue to identify ourselves with the languages we speak and with the culture we are ingrained with from our namesake countries (i.e. India and China). We continue to seek a heritage that runs paralell to Malaysia’s own.”

I never mentioned that Chinese consider China to be their home and I did not even hint at anything suggesting Chinese to ‘go back to China’ – So please accord me the respect not to misquote or misunderstand me. I believe it’s these misunderstandings that are causing unecessary hate and pain.

I agree with you that Chinese schools are equipped in providing better secular education and I have no problem with non-Chinese sending their children there. I also agree with you on a meritocratic system, but national stability is always at the forefront of many Malaysians (re: 1967 riots).

I do not agree that cultural values will mutate and inevitably be intertwined with the other cultures in Malaysia to the extent, that they are acceptable to all. Most cultures invariably are based upon religion and there is no way religion will ever be compromised by any of the races.

Social justice remains the only value that unites, but again it is defined differently by different people.

I hear a lot of people talking about identities… Can someone please define what a “Malaysin identity” is. Instead of throwing general and cheap slogans, please be more specific and explain how you would achieve this identity and upon what basis?

How do the non-Malays minorities expect a “Bangsa Malaysia” when there are no tangible unifying factors?

law1999, some of your suggestions are fantastically unrealistic and a possible cause for instability and social disaster. Let’s examine them in a little more detail:

>> 1. Allows all the races to inter marry.

For most Malays, it is Islam that defines their way of life and not secular laws. Islam is a complete and comprehensive way of life that encompasses all social, economic, legal, military, political facets. Clearly a lot of these facets are not fully applied in Malaysia, but the fundamentals do not and will not change for any given every time or space.

Inter-racial marriages are not the problem here as most Malaysians are open to this idea. The problem is with inter-religious marriages because religion is the biggest factor for people. A Muslim man or woman can marry a Muslim from any race; but when it comes to marrying non-Muslims, there are strict conditions to be met for the male gender.

>> 2. Make no compulsion for either party to follow the religion of any one spouse. That mean FREEDOM of RELIGION.

This is hypothetical because very rarely will no. 1 be implemented (in terms of inter-religious marriages).

>> 3. On Political side. UMNO, MCA, MIC can admit all races. This will do away segregation by RACE.

I agree that this is a very plausible idea and the opposition has shown how this can work (for example Penang). I think gradually a lot of Malaysians are coming around to see this in practise. The BN of today is a hodge-podge of incompetent and clueless leaders and it will take a fresh approach from the younger and more dynamic people to lead. I very much like the Singapore model of government where the most competent people are given positions of responsibility. I agree that there is nepotism to a little extent, but the funny thing is that Malaysia also practises nepotism but with negative results :^) This is because they do NOT put the best people in charge of the most responsible roles.

It may be that BN no longer has people with leader qualities, and this is where the opposition can capitalise. If they can show a successful working model of alternative governship, political change may be coming sooner than you think. However, to try and separate Islam for politics is suicide because there are equal number of people who are anti-secular as there are pro-secular.

As for Malaysian-Malay, Malaysian-Chinese, Malaysian-Indian; this is a fact of most nation states. In Singapore, you are identified by your race and in Britain, you are identified by your race (i.e. British Asian); this is not the problem. The problem is when these categorisations lead to discrimination, this is why we have to fight.

I also know that in Britain there is a proposal for “positive discrimination” for the minorities! If an employer got 2 applications, they would be forced to choose the minority application over white. Clearly this is being frowned upon by the white majority as racism. Where do you draw the balance between social justice and national stability?

I leave with a quote from LKY:

“If I were in authority in Singapore indefinitely without having to ask those who are governed whether they like what is being done, then I would not have the slightest doubt that I could govern much more effectively in their interests.” [Mr Lee Kuan Yew, 1962]

undergrad2, I used the word ‘identified’ very liberally and did not mean it in the context of ID cards. BTW, have you ever applied for a job or anything else for that matter within the public services sector in the UK? Have you travelled to the US recently? If so, were you accorded a safe passage through security and customs? Do you think that racial profiling is a necessary evil in the fight against “terrorism”?

I think you keep on missing the point here; In regards to the UK, the government is drawing up plans to discriminate against the white majority in order to accomodate ethnic minorities in the work place. This is their prerogative because they think this will be partly good for social cohesion and integration. Different countries act in different ways specific to their needs. Malaysia is no different.

As a final post on this particular thread, I just wanted to highlight a blatant fact that many are failing to understand. There is a world-wide revival within the Muslim faith and a re-surgence of Islam. Muslim majority countries world over are preparing to deal with the effects of such a re-awakening. Some are accepting it, some are fighting it, some are partial to it in certain aspects government policies.

badak is correct in saying that the issue of halal and haram was not as prevalent in the 70’s for example as it is now. This is a direct result of this revival and whether non-Muslims like or not, they will have to appreciate and live with it where they are a minority.

In the West, Muslims are fighting for their rights, but they are not demanding equal representation or law changes to accomodate their religious needs. They must (as citizens of those countries) obey the laws of the land and refrain, where possible from those that are in direct contradiction with their fundamental beliefs.

I believe the non-Muslim minorities in Malaysia need to inspect the world and see how fairly they are treated in contract to other minorities around the globe. Agreeing to disagree is a positive start :^)

undergrad2 , I hope you are noting all the ironies within your posts :^) I rest my case.

undergrad2 Says:

>> I’d urge zak_haamaad, to come down from his high pedestal and ‘educate’ us lesser mortals further on his ideas about Muslim theology and the resurgence of Islam.

This is neither the time or place to discuss this, but I’m sure we will have plenty of opportunities as this blog progresses. I mentioned the issue of Islamic revival because it is happening; to ignore it will continue to raise questions about “Islamisation of Malaysia”, it’s causes and affects. Since we know that politics is an inherent part of Islam (not vice versa) – We can begin to understand and address minority concerns in Muslim majority countries.

Political change in Malaysia, whether it comes through BN or Pakatan will continue to be based on Islamic elements that secularists like the DAP will not be able to wash off no matter how much they’d like to. Social justice will prevail; but not as defined by the anti-Muslim forces :^)

Imran, totally agree with you last post, couldn’t have said it better myself.