Stop harassing Anwar for DNA

by Dr. Chen Man Hin


It is unfair and mischievous to put the blame on Anwar as he is justified in refusing to give further samples. It is not Anwar who is un-coperative. It is the police forensics who are at fault, and insisting on further blood samples when he had already given many times over between 1998 and 2004.

The onus of providing an DNA sample is on the police as it has ample DNA samples of Anwar in its possession.

From the experience of police forensics in other countries, DNA samples collected are well preserved for many many years, and do not get ‘old’ as claimed by PM Abdullah.

The police forensics have misled the prime minister.

The home minister and the police should not try to pull over the eyes of the people. By claiming that Anwar’s DNA samples are old, they are making themselves the laughing stock of the whole world.

Why DNA samples do not grow old. There are many living examples:-

1. Stephen Hawkings Nobel Prize winning physicist has donated his DNA samples to the Human Genome institution for posterity and for research. Professor Hawkins does not subscribe to the claim by PM that a DNA sample can grow old.

2 In advanced countries, DNA samples are collected and stored for purposes of statistics and scientific research.

3. Police forensics in developed countries have DNA libraries of felons and crooks. There are innumerable cases of rapists who escaped but were nabbed years after the crime, because they left tell-tale semen on the clothes of the rape victims .

4 Scientists have discovered preserved DNA in prehistoric humans and animals.

It is obvious that Anwar’s DNA samples given between 1998 and 2004 must be available and intact for examination purposes by police forensics department

The home minister and the police must stop harassing Anwar for new DNA samples. The onus is on the police to provide DNA samples, not by Anwar.

The frantic appeal to Anwar to give a blood sample has caused suspicion that the police have no substantive evidence of sodomy on the body of Saiful in their possession

Public perception is that a fresh blood sample from Anwar is desperately needed in order to fabricate evidence against him.

  1. #1 by ktteokt on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 1:09 pm

    If the DNA of mammoths which have been extinct for millions of years can still be used by scientists for cloning purposes, why is Anwar’s DNA too old when it was taken just 10 years ago? That makes Anwar older than the dinosaurs and he is indeed a RARE species!!!!

  2. #2 by PHUAKL on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 1:10 pm

    Tsk! Tsk!

    Economic management — “F”

    Propaganda and disinformation — another “F”

    What a government we have!

  3. #3 by ch on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 1:24 pm

    Dear All,

    I tend to believe that PDRM does not have a proper procedural on DNA recording and storing of the sample. It is high time that PDRM adopt a more fool proof tested recording and storing procedural of DNA samples as they are vital in providing important lead(s) to the capture of criminal suspect(s).

    I concur with the view of Dr. Chen that statement from our PM on DNA sample getting old and obsolete for current investigation would make us a laughing stock. It shows that we are ignorant and lack of general knowledge. However, I guess we all make mistake(s) but the most important thing is that we must be willing to learn and get smarter.

  4. #4 by rambo on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 1:25 pm

    Malaysians especially UMNO have a series of questions in their minds recently. They are about human science, legal knowledge and some human behaviours.

    How long is the valid period for DNA?
    A. One day
    B. One year
    C. 10 years
    D. forever

    Why they need new DNA?
    A. The old DNA has exceeded the valid period
    B. The old DNA is lost
    C. They do not know how to use the old DNA
    D. The old DNA belongs to somebody else

    What is the role of a sworn statement?
    A. Those who believe will believe and those who do not believe can just forget about it
    B. It depends on whether the police believe it
    C. It has no role
    D. It depends on whether it is the first or the second sworn statement

    The consequences of making a sworn statement
    A. Will be charged
    B. Will be protected
    C. Will disappear
    D. Will have to go for a long vacation

    The highest risk industry in Malaysia’s
    A. Politician
    B. Detective
    C. Blogger
    D. Photojournalist

    Why Anwar was arrested before the deadline?
    A. Anwar intended to run away
    B. The police was rushing for lunch
    C. The police was rushing to treat Anwar curry rice
    D. Massive traffic jams

    What is the major cause of traffic jams?
    A. To encourage the public to take LRT
    B. To encourage consumption as Petronas’s profit surged
    C. To prove that imported cars are as slow as local-made cars during traffic jams
    D. To prove that the police did take action

    What were the people trapped in traffic jams thinking?
    A. Dare not to drive next time
    B. Understand the police’s hard work
    C. Join demonstrations
    D. Hope that the general elections will be held soon

    The feelings when watching the debate between Anwar and Shabery
    A. Understand the reasons of increasing fuel prices
    B. Finally understand why fuel oil prices should not be increased
    C. Watch your mouth when you speak
    D. Watch out for your saliva when you speak

    The feelings after watching the debate between Anwar and Shabery
    A. Very brave
    B. Very pathetic
    C. Goodbye, minister
    D. Why didn’t the government recruit Mahathir?

    Who should answer when children ask what is “sodomy”?
    A. Parents
    B. The Police Force
    C. The Attorney-General
    D. The Minister of Education

    If a child asks what is “sodomy”, it shows that
    A. He can be a policeman
    B. He can be a prosecutor
    C. He can join politics
    D. He is destined to be a Malaysian

  5. #5 by oknyua on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 1:30 pm

    Dr Chen, Police forensics have misled the prime minister – willingly.

    Not only the forensics, but the entire PDRM, including the AG. And he believed them.

  6. #6 by Mr Smith on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 1:41 pm

    I think the stupid PM made that statement without discussing with anyone. He assumed the DNA sample was old. A fool never learns.

    One Anwar is making the mighty BN government run berserk.

  7. #7 by Godfather on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 1:41 pm

    For a person who failed entrance statistics, we don’t really expect him to understand what DNA is all about. That’s why his handlers on the 4th floor try their best not to let him out of their sights or he’ll make a fool of himself time and time again.

    This is the head of Islam Hadhari who is so revered by RealWorld, Shamshul Anuar and Kasim Amat, the UMNO apologists.

  8. #8 by Kathy on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 1:47 pm

    True that the PDRM should stop harassing DSAI for fresh DNA samples. They already have the ones since 1998, why not sure those.

    Unless of course they want to fabricate misleading evidence against him. Then, they need fresh samples. What other reasons would justify the harassment.

  9. #9 by highhand on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 1:48 pm

    hamid and badawi need to have their dna test also, maybe they got the gundu genes……..kah kah kah

  10. #10 by General Maximus Decimus Meridius on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 1:49 pm

    afterall, malaysians dont read much. including the PM himself. well, not bad, considering that he dont even watch CSI. must be busy doing something else then… But, what about the whole other cabinet members? Dont they know this basic fact? Uhmm… Doubt so

  11. #11 by Godfather on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 1:55 pm

    Bolehland is full of dumbos who are mute. We have a science and technology minister who probably doesn’t know what DNA is either, so he never points out the oxymoronic statement of wanting an “up-to-date” DNA specimen. We have the mainstream press which is again mute at pointing out the errors of their political masters.

    Would Dr Chen’s statement above be carried by the mainstream press ? I don’t think so. Just let Badawi be the butt of all the internet jokes.

  12. #12 by taiking on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 1:56 pm

    Anwar’s body tissues obtained previously are now too old.

    Who said that its too old?

    Is it PM who said its too old?

    Or is it his advisers and he is merely paroting them?

    Or is it the police?

    Anyone knows with certainty how dna samples are preserved and if properly preserved, how long the can samples last.

    I dont.

    I am not sure if PM knows.

    Nor his advisers.

    Nor the police.

    I am not the only one. There must be many others.

    Its no use for the PM and the police to keep asserting that the dna samples have deteriorated and new ones are now needed.

    That is a very difficult statement for one to accept.

    Not when the people’s perception of the government and police is firmly embeded in the negative zone.

    Good luck to them.

    They have been hiding behind opaque screens for far too long.

    A vision that is opaque has got itself ingrained in ones mind. When that happens the opaque vision metamorphasised into an opaque perception.

    You may replace the opaque screen with a clear one and hope that the vision would immediately clear up. But no. Its not so simple. Perception has taken over. Vision is not longer believed, even if it is clear. Perception counts. The perception will still remain opaque in peoples’ minds.

    Dna samples too old.


    You do dont no bull shit man!

    Coz I aint gonna take it.

  13. #13 by visu on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 1:56 pm

    Doubt so……an “intelligent” lead by another “intelligent” what we can expect..

  14. #14 by Emily Pratt on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 1:56 pm

    Abdullah Bodoh-wee is a complete and utter nincompoop and the only reason why certain AM-NO faction wants him to be leader is because he is malleable just like a piece of plasticine.

  15. #15 by Amoeba on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 1:57 pm

    Hei…….! PM was graduated in Arts la……! How can we expect him to understand what we r talking about.

  16. #16 by Kathy on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:00 pm

    Meaning he has never taken a general science subject before????

    Now we need to review the qualifications for the position of the PM of Malaysia.

  17. #17 by Damocles on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:01 pm

    How come a dumb dumb like him can become a PM and for two consecutive terms for that matter!!

  18. #18 by Amoeba on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:03 pm

    Abdullah Badawi is a former student of Bukit Mertajam High School. He received a Bachelor of Arts in Islamic Studies from the University of Malaya in 1964. After graduation, he joined the Malaysian Administrative and Diplomatic Corps (the formal term for the civil service). He served as Director of Youth at the Ministry of Youth and Sport as well as secretary of the National Emergency Council (MAGERAN). He resigned in 1978 to become the member of parliament for his constituency of Kepala Batas in northern Seberang Perai (which had also been represented by his late father), which he still represents today.

  19. #19 by Godfather on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:04 pm

    Why do you think he keeps tainted figures like Tengku Adnan and Mike Tyson in the UMNO supreme council ? So that he looks good by comparison !

  20. #20 by ch on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:05 pm

    Dear All,

    I read in the newspaper recently that the DNA regulations will soon be tabled at the parliament. I would believe that even the DNA subject is now a hot topic at the august hall ever since Anwar Ibrahim refused his blood sample to be drawn out. For that matter, recently several dailies also run a few pages update on DNA in an attempt to further educate the rakyat about it. We read comments from several UMNO leaders shouting and demanding that Anwar Ibrahim put forward his DNA or a court order may be in progressed to ensure that he does so. Unaware of the actual facts on DNA testing, many man on the street may agree that the accused (Anwar) is guilty as charged/alleged.

    We must have read or heard that Anwar claimed to have substantial evidence and alibis to prove his innocence. My question is if the complainant states in his report that he was sodomized on Wednesday,23rd July 2008 and the accused managed to challenge the fact by proving he was indeed away to Turkey on the date of assault, I wonder how the DNA collected from the complainant would be accepted and proven in court.

  21. #21 by Godfather on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:10 pm


    That is the likely reason why Anwar has yet to see a copy of the report filed by the complainant. They can doctor the report to fit the “availability” of DSAI.

  22. #22 by i_love_malaysia on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:11 pm

    PDRM’s used to missing, misplaced or mistagged the court samples, so it is not surprising that they wanted new sample from DSAI, as it is malu to admit that they somehow has lost it somewhere or to use the wrong sample to fabricate evidence etc.

    A new DNA law is on the way soon, many innocent men and women might be executed without knowing why their DNA could be found at crime scene!!! Every thing is possible if those in authority wanted to frame anyone, the question is only if you or me are their perceived enemy!!!

  23. #23 by Emily Pratt on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:14 pm

    If Mr Nincompoop (formerly known as Abdullah Bodoh-wee) has any sense of intelligence left in him, he should fire all his so called advisers for giving him stupid information like these

    (Kononnya DNA boleh berubah-ubah macam keputusan flip-flop anda… ha ha ha ha ha!)

    I can understand that you are not a science based person, but to have your advisers continually give you stupid advises whilst you still retain them, just make you look erm…. really stupid.


  24. #24 by chin on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:15 pm

    A few things could be happened in the police forensic team.
    1) They never keep proper records. One very obvious from government agencies is that, they tend to lost records because too much people working with same subject. One behaviour is that each will take sweet time to do filling & recordings.
    2) Recording systems are still a bloody mess in government sector, try to retrieve something from them, i am sure they will went hay wire.
    3) Any live sample from DSAI in 1998 will either lost or shelf up somewhere OR to be planted in the 13 points evidence on the matress which they used up and nothing left out for future used. (One may be too confidence that they nail DSAI for good for once in 1998)
    4) After 1998 incident, they may destroy the samples & and avoid re-sampling as further evidence may show DSAI is innocent completely, therefore destroying it will be best for non-retrial.
    5) These guys really don’t know what they are doing, had no idea at all. Knows nothing more.

    The rest, i guess you could put lots of possibilities. The PM said that the sample was too old. Let me re-phrase that to you, what he means is “The sample is not fresh enough to insert in to Saiful anus.” . Thats what he really means. UNDERSTOOD !

  25. #25 by General Maximus Decimus Meridius on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:16 pm

    the upcoming DNA law must be rejected by any means necessary. its the ultimate infrigement of personal privacy. enough is enough. YB Lim, do what you must!!

  26. #26 by ShiokGuy on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:20 pm

    May be like I said before they think that DSAI is an Alien life form, not human. Watch too much science fiction movies where the alien life form can morph into any form or structure by just touching and copy it DNA.

    So DSAI is an Alien Life Form, we need his DNA profile constantly to proof that he is who he is….

    Just radio active coded the new sample without them knowing.. If the radio active sample is found in some deep wide dirty yucky pits.. then we know how it get there…

    Shiok Guy

  27. #27 by i_love_malaysia on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:21 pm

    With DNA law implemented, the no. of PDRM’s cases solved will be 100% i.e. just plant someone’s DNA at the crime scene and the case is solved. Bravo to PDRM!!!
    For those who still have faith in the incompetent govt and its incompetent servants, good luck if your DNA is not found at crime scene!!! For those with no faith in this govt and its servants, it is time to fight or to run away from this motherland!!!

  28. #28 by NewDAP on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:22 pm

    Damocles Says:

    Today at 14: 01.54 (17 minutes ago)
    How come a dumb dumb like him can become a PM and for two consecutive terms for that matter!!

    Because Malaysians are generally dumb dumb like its PM especially those who always cast for UMNO….. =)

  29. #29 by Godfather on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:24 pm

    Since it is universally agreed that Badawi’s statement of wanting an “up-to-date” DNA specimen is stupid, what about Syed Hamid’s statement ? Should he quit for being stupid too ? He’s a lawyer by training, so he probably doesn’t know what DNA is either.

  30. #30 by NewDAP on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:25 pm

    Aiya, those guys kept the DNA already resigned or dead therefore the new guys have to ask for a new DNA again.

  31. #31 by NewDAP on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:26 pm

    Hmmm…….Maybe those old DNA were not Anwar’s DNA………

  32. #32 by Evenmind on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:29 pm

    For a start i do not think the imberciles in UMNO know what DNA is , How unprofessionals can these clowns be , including the head clown who is at the helm of this supposedly multi cultural country, these people are thinking the DNA of a person is changing every now and then , no wonder the country is downsliding at an unimaginable rate , all they are good at is race based politics, well done UMNoputeras, damn fools.

  33. #33 by NewDAP on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:29 pm

    He’s a lawyer by training, so he probably doesn’t know what DNA is either.

    Maybe he is a grade ‘E’ lawyer……ie those qualified by been in the correct race……….

  34. #34 by private_undergrad on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:31 pm

    The fracas above and the shenanigans by the Govt have proved that the top posts are filled by pea-brained and thick-witted politicians who pretend to know everything but in fact know nothing. Thus the laughing stock like the ‘DNA’ database can get old. Please leave the job to the experts in the field…

  35. #35 by max2811 on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:31 pm

    It’s either the police/UMNO/BN are real stupid or they are trying to get new DNA samples into getting ‘new evidence’. Maybe put some of it into Saiful’s ass.

    It’s just an excuse to make DSAI look reluctant to cooperate with the police. They could have gotten anything from DSAI when he was in jail.

    What of ppl are running the country?!

  36. #36 by Bigjoe on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:31 pm

    Haris Ibrahim has an account where people in UMNO predicted sodomy charge against Anwar BEFORE the supposedly last assault on the young man.

    Hmm. They not only know DNA like nobody else but also in predicting future….

  37. #37 by Scofield on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:31 pm

    DNA will get old??? Who is smarter? Georgio Busho or Abdullah Badawee? Well, at least one of them is confirmed stepping down this Nov.

  38. #38 by NewDAP on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:36 pm

    My son of primary 5 said he knows that DNA of a person does not change over years……..

    and my son asked me why our PM and police does not know that DNA of a person does not change over years……

    I don’t know how to answer that, can someone please help me to explain to my son……

  39. #39 by i_love_malaysia on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:37 pm

    DNA law is good to catch hold of real criminals if implemented fairly and justly without mistake, but when implemented in Bolehmurderland, it is the opposite, innocence people will be framed and killed!!!
    For those who cant be entrusted with little thing, dont entrust them with more or all things even if they have the same colour!!! They just dont have the capabilities and the capacity to perform!!! when they are pressured, they will take shortcuts and the end result will be someone innocence being killed!!! We dont have to look too far into the past to see all the bad instances of these!!!

  40. #40 by Amoeba on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:43 pm

    If we become PM at least we must understand a bit of science and economics. When other ppl brief or explain about economy or DNA, at least he can understand and forward those messages clearly and correctly. If a person without a knowledge about economy and science can become PM i rather choose a primary student become my PM.

  41. #41 by i_love_malaysia on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:44 pm

    NewDAP Says:

    Today at 14: 36.43 (28 seconds ago)
    My son of primary 5 said he knows that DNA of a person does not change over years……..

    and my son asked me why our PM and police does not know that DNA of a person does not change over years……

    I don’t know how to answer that, can someone please help me to explain to my son……

    The answer is very simple, based on BN UMNO’s dictionary, DNA will change over time and the answer is final and cannot be questioned and no proof need to be shown why it is so!!! For those who still want to question why and want to see proof will be arrested under ISA for waging war against the country!!!

  42. #42 by PureMalaysian on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:54 pm

    It has been brought up many times in such a similar post on the issue that “DNA cannot grow old” – yet, there is no action from the PM or PDRM to rectify their mistake; or at least apologise to the public for being misled by some idiot thinktank.

    This further prove to the public, you and me, that there is a conspiracy behind all this to fabricate evidence and fix DSAI up into another 1998 incidence!

  43. #43 by private_undergrad on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 2:58 pm

    Perhaps later in the day the DNA law will be institutionalised in the Federal Constitution (Perlembagaan Persekutuan) when implemented and thus cannot be questioned by anyone who is concerned about this absurdity.

  44. #44 by yhsiew on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 3:05 pm

    I believe the police are still having Anwar’s 1998 DNA sample. However they do not want to take the risk to fabricate sodomy evidence with this 1998 sample because they know DNA can change over time (albeit very slightly). Scientific reports on bird flu did tell us that DNA of the bird flu virus underwent changes in some cases.

    If the police were to fabricate sodomy evidence using the 1998 sample, there is a high chance that Anwar would request the authorities to conduct an independent test on his DNA using fresh blood samples taken from his body. He would request the DNA result to be compared with that derived from 1998. If the two do not match, the police will be in BIG TROUBLE.

    The police do not want to do anything with the 1998 DNA sample; apparently, they are taking the “just in case the two do not match” precaution.

  45. #45 by Hishamuddin on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 3:13 pm

    This show how stupid our current leaders are. We are a laughing stock to the rest of the world. They do not understand what is DNA even.

    Do they not see CSI on TV ?

    I police do not need new samples top check the DNA again. It is in the records already and just comparing the samples in saiful’s anus should already tell you if it belong to who ? Unless the last time they did not do any DNA test ????

    Or unless the police need fresh samples to plant evidence into Saiful’s anus.

    What a butt story… by the Bolehland

  46. #46 by Kathy on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 3:30 pm

    Amoeba, we cannot count on the primary school child to be PM of Malaysia if we want to survive. Bad products of BN education system.

  47. #47 by yhsiew on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 3:33 pm

    The police should stop harassing Anwar for a blood sample since Malaysian law did not require Anwar to produce a DNA sample.

    The police and Abdullah should have faith in Malaysian law and not waste time in challenging Malaysian law.

  48. #48 by snomed3 on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 3:38 pm

    i love your blog uncle lim but this is a very sensitive and important medico-legal process. i would rather you not making such comments that can mislead many other peoples out there. malaysians look up to you sir!

  49. #49 by yog7948 on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 3:39 pm An evening with an ‘accomplice’

    Another c4 from Sir RPK.. no point of talking about DNA.. any sane people can smell the rotten fish in the Sodomy allegation. It has NAJIS written all over it..

    Zaki rejected YB karpal’s application to call Najis and others to court without deliberations.. If you can’t call DPeeM, why ASAP guy musa or SD Bala also can’t be summoned. Too obvious lah mate.. Can’t even do a Bad thing right.. how pathetic.

    MSM spinners are working Full Time on the “PAS-UNMO” talks. Even a retard like MM tyson is telling TGNK how to think. In the 70′, Pas member was duped by UNMO’s croc tears.. Now, Malays are smarter.. the won’t fall to the same trick again.. MM Tyson is right on that matter.. Malays are not stupid to believe in UNMO anymore.

    Anyhow.. just waiting to see all the outcome.

    RPK’s 4 defamation case ( + 1 Soon)
    DSAI sodomy
    PAS’s meeting regarding UNMO

    My laptop is “burning” for the past few weeks.. just going to shut it off for few days.. a rest before next weeks dramas..

  50. #50 by Jeffrey on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 3:41 pm

    ///It is obvious that Anwar’s DNA samples given between 1998 and 2004 must be available and intact for examination purposes by police forensics department..The frantic appeal to Anwar to give a blood sample has caused suspicion that the police have no substantive evidence of sodomy on the body of Saiful in their possession…Public perception is that a fresh blood sample from Anwar is desperately needed in order to fabricate evidence against him…/// – Dr. Chen Man Hin.

    There is much force in Dr Chen’s argument considering “scientists have discovered preserved DNA in prehistoric humans and animals.”

    On his point that “the police have no substantive evidence of sodomy on the body of Saiful in their possession”, now that is a crucial objective issue that authorities can prove DR Chen either right or wrong by showing and disclosing to the Malaysian public Saiful’s medical examination report – which ought to state whether or not he was penetrated in the anus since penetration is the main gravament of the section 377(c) charge anticipated to be thrown at Anwar.

    The onus on the investigating authorities is not just to provide DNA samples, as Dr Chen suggested, but also contents of Saiful’s medical report because everything begins from that point (whether not he was sodomised) and if that first medical report discloses that there is no penetration, it is the end of the matter since there is widespread concerns that overzealous investigators (hypothetically) could go out of the way on a fishing trip to get Anwar’s DNA & smear it on the complainant Saiful for a second medical examination to get the desired medical examination results where the first examination/report has yielded no evidence of penetration or Anwar’s DNA.

    YB Kit, believe me, you can’t go wrong if you press for public disclosure of the first medical report contemporaneous with the time the police report was lodged.

    The points here proceed on two basic assumptions:

    1. the doctors making the first medical examination and report are persons of unwavering professional integrity who would not submit to undue influence and pressure to report aerroneous findings; and

    2. Saiful’s claim to confidentiality of the findings of his medical examination is overriden by greater public interest, issues and concerns more important, on balance, than his claim to confidentiality especially he was the one who made in the first place sucgh a damaging report against a public figure and political leader.

  51. #51 by wanderer on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 3:45 pm

    Should the current govt want to institutionalized into the Federal Constitution of the DNA law, we must resist this from happening, it is simply an invasion on our privacy and human right.
    Should they set up a DNA bank, the first donor must obviously be Syed Hamid Albar…..for future generations’ benefit, to examine how a king of clowns behave!

  52. #52 by gundam on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 3:50 pm

    dun underestimate AAB, he might be a fool but dont forget his brilliant SIL, curry the great who graduated from oxfart.

  53. #53 by isaaclln on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 4:05 pm

    PM has no strong science background is not a good excuse. In Malaysia, most of the national universities have biotechnology faculty. All these faculties have experts in the field of molecular biology. Therefore, PM can always consult them.

    The fact that DNA will grow old, is definitely a crap!!!! DNA can be well-preserved in appropriate buffer solution at -20oC for years.

    Nowadays, DNA extraction kits are widely used in molecular biology laboratory. Since they had several old blood samples from Anwar, I believe they have lots of his DNA, provided they know the right way to keep it.

    Sigh….. what kind of politicians are we having nowadays????? Everyone just thinks of themselves, thinks for the powers, who will ever bother about the country’s development?????? Sigh……… :(

  54. #54 by nyghtsky on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 4:12 pm

    MUST SEE! Raja Petra’s ( ) – “An evening with an ‘accomplice’ ” outlines his meeting with a witness who was present when Saiful, when they met up with Najis to discuss how to frame DSAI!

    RPK claims he has the entire session on VIDEO!!!!

  55. #55 by walao on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 4:27 pm

    To Uncle Lim,

    Pls advise Annuar that in order to avoid all the hassle and all the debate whose right and wrong to these matter, Annuar at least should appoint a third party forensic and the forensic team should only provide Annuar’s DNA analysis/data and not the blood sample which the police are so eager to get. DNA data should be enough to compare with the evidence on side. No need blood sample. Just DNA profile , case solved.

  56. #56 by Anti_NEP on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 4:40 pm

    Only the no brain sleeping PM can claim DNA is too old. Never use his ant size brain to think before he talks

  57. #57 by Evenmind on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 4:51 pm

    the Umnoputeras and thier head , and deputy head clown are running the country like gangsters, all the Mafia Dons in italy are no match , here they use the state machinery to blow up people, plant evidence , even in the anus to achieve whatever they are after, but in the international arena ,they are worse off than clowns ,like the ones the super duper law people who lost the case of pedra blanca to the Singapore lawyers ( who are there by merit ).

  58. #58 by pselvams on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 4:52 pm

    To NEWDAP.
    Well sir, I had the same problem, my son , also by chance in STD 5, asked me the very same question . he told me DNA can be stored in data format for research and history purposes.

    So what did I tell him. Well , I felt very embarrassed and told him to read more on DNA.

  59. #59 by Richardqed on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 5:18 pm

    When AAB goes for meetings with international dignitaries, I hope he remembers that idiotic statement he made about the DNA. Whoever he is shaking hands with, that the other person will be trying hard not to roll on the floor upon recalling what this joker said.

    Truly a worldwide laughing stock he is.

  60. #60 by TheWrathOfGrapes on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 5:28 pm

    DNA = Dim-witted Numskull Abdullah

  61. #61 by hope for futre on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 5:30 pm

    Yes, tell them off.
    Incompetent IGP, AG, Home minister, etc.
    Making a laughing stock to the whole world.
    Please do yourselves a favour and resign en mass.
    This sodomy thing is too old to be used. Try something new – original (not follow Mahathir foolish stupid ideas, they worked once) but cry wolf too many times it is stale, the whole country is laughing at Umno/Bn stupidity!

  62. #62 by citizenwatch on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 5:43 pm

    Writings on the wall. I saw this graffitti:

    “I thought sodomy is the study of moon and stars until I discovered that it’s the study of an act on the part of Saiful where the sun never shines”

  63. #63 by citizenwatch on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 5:46 pm

    Please check out Malaysia Today titled, “An evening with an accomplice” where Pete wrote another explosive article regarding his conversation with Saiful’s friend who made a confession!

  64. #64 by budak on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 5:47 pm

    see what YM Raja Petra have to says:-

    And how will that happen? Well, this time I video-recorded a ‘confession’ session. And the video recording is now in a safe place, ready to surface during my trial when they charge me for this newest ‘crime’, whatever that crime is going to be.

    The gist is as follows. When Saiful went to meet Najib, he brought a friend along. And this friend has confessed to the entire thing in a video recording, which I now have in my possession. So bring it on. Give me all you’ve got. Charge me and let us see what happens in court.

    Hidup YM Raja Petra

  65. #65 by milduser on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 6:19 pm

    When the whole episode of “So u & me, 2nite” debacle exploded as a repeat of the infamous 1998 one, it was already suspected that it will be a trumped up ploy to nail DSAI and finish him off his political ambition. “So u $ me, 2nite -2” is a convenient way to implement and execute, so they thought. Using the exact tactic twice (exact copy of TDM’s plot; either TDM should sue for copyright, or else demand rolyalty from the present admistration) gives some pride to TDM. So when a case is suspect in the first place, all SUBSEQUENT so call due process of LAW that occur will NOT be fair and JUSTICE will NOT BE DONE. Full STOP.

  66. #66 by Hishamuddin on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 6:25 pm


    Hence the need to blow it up…by the Bolehland secret service

  67. #67 by dawsheng on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 6:29 pm

    Today in a business meeting, during small talks I was asked which country I came from, I told them I am Malaysian, the next and following questions are all about sodomy. Great!

  68. #68 by eloofk on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 6:29 pm

    I cant help but rolled on the floor each time i came across statements made by ABB n his entire gang of goons. DNA can get old. What rubbish! The DNA they got from DSAI was only ten years ago. I believed they had made a mistake and planted the DNA on themselves. That’s why they ‘Dont No Anything’, especially science and economics.

  69. #69 by milduser on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 6:30 pm


  70. #70 by young_malaysian on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 6:32 pm

    If Tun Mahathir is still the PM, i think he wun make tis mistake like his successor… really shame on him… im not sure whether badawi knows about his action being a laughing stock… Malaysian’s image might be dragged down just because of a stupidity statement by Malaysia PM…

  71. #71 by dragon88 on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 6:35 pm

    Bodowi is really bodo ??? We have the most stupid PM. He should sack his adviser immediately. There is no old DNA…

    Anwar, you should wear a space-suit or protective clothing whne you go for another interview. They can get your DNA from anything on you, especially, your hair..the glass you use, etc….

  72. #72 by pjboy on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 6:38 pm

    It seems ruling gov give highest priority to this dna topic than more important issues to the rakyat who is suffering in the street.

  73. #73 by I Malaysian on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 6:43 pm

    Making himself as laughing stock

    The whole episode is nothing but a political conspiracy as far as Malaysia’s public are concerned. For international community it would not be something that can be easily acceptable. Mind it; we are talking to Singapore, US, Australia and many others who are much more advanced in technology than Malaysia. Are you saying that you could convince them why Anwar needed to provide his DNA samples again or why Police is yet to extend a copy of police report to Anwar?

    Dear Mr. Albar, after Shabery broke his nose in the televised debate now its’ your turn to break yours. So have you broken your nose? I presume the answer is YES.

  74. #74 by pjboy on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 6:46 pm

    Did anyone get the email on “money down the toilet”? Big ribbon cutting ceremony just to launch a fully auto toilet downtown. Some tourist thought what was so spectacular only to see our DPM proudly launch an automated public toilet. The tourist were laughing. Yes, Malaysians pay great attention to such trivial things. Wonder how much DBKL makan to get this onto the street. Nothing new lah. We are over 10 years behind. These toilets were already in the streets of Paris city. Why do we need automated cleaning toilet is because Malaysians (or so our DPM is trying to imply) have no habit to clean the toilet & very unhygienic species in this planet. Way to go – yeah. Clap clap clap. The $ could have been put to better use. Btw, the toilet is equipped with aircon !!! No joke.

  75. #75 by pjboy on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 6:49 pm

    Dear YAB LKS,

    Challenge Datuk Wong Choon Wai to publish this letter for the benefit of the sound minded & civilised public.

  76. #76 by pjboy on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 6:50 pm

    Someone should ask PM if he knows who is Stephen Hawkings. He will probably shut down & go to zzzz.

  77. #77 by tonysam18 on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 7:06 pm

    to pselvams and newdap, i give you a very practical solution to the problem of explaining to your Primary 5 sons on the topic of DNA.

    You bring them to your regular mee goreng seller and order a plate of sodo mee and ask him what is sodomee. I am sure he will then explain the evolution of the sodomy just like the evolution of the species of charles dickens . Must be finger licking good. The moral of the story is even a mee seller will know that the DNA of a person will not change over time.

    I am working overseas and I come back to KUL once every two months or so.

    I hope on my next trip back there will be some innovative restaurant selling sodo mee in Puduraya or KLIA. That will be the day.

  78. #78 by Saint on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 7:54 pm

    Simple. Go to a trust worthy country, get the genome map done, have it certified and just pass them the print. No need of blood samples. The police want fresh blood. There is no such thing as fresh DNA.

  79. #79 by lovemalaysiaforever on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 8:03 pm

    Datuk Liow lagi bodoh when he himself as the Health Minister also asking DSAI to produce his current DNA to settle the complication of this case….

  80. #80 by dapforever on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 8:45 pm

    i think our PM should study some science :) What is too old?

  81. #81 by firefox on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 9:23 pm

    I think they don’t have watch Jurassic Park. even a small mosquito have dinasour blood from long time ago also can use to remake the dinasour.

    4years blood too old? I think the whole country laughing at our Malaysia PM. What a shame. PM wor… Go back study la. even small kid also know.

  82. #82 by yhsiew on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 9:26 pm

    Excellent idea from walao:

    Anwar needs only produce to the police a certified copy of his DNA profile on a computer CD or a photograph – case solved.

    The blood sample is hardly needed.

  83. #83 by pjboy on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 10:00 pm

    This is what I don’t understand, or is it just me…

    The so-do-me accuser & BN/PDRM/AG-gang behind him claim to have evidence – also swear here & swear there in their underwear. So, if they really have evidence, the PDRM forensics must then perform the DNA on the sample they claim to have obtained from so-do-me shit-hole & lock-up DSAI by now or charge him. Or maybe the evidence point elsewhere…hmmm.

    Why? The PDRM already got DSAI DNA profile since 1998. DNA profile don’t change, not even in a million years. So, all the PDRM forensics need to do is to match the DNA obtained from the so-do-me shit-hole & compare that to the DNA profile in 1998…or is the PDRM telling us that the 1998 DNA profile of DSAI do not belong to DSAI??? So, TDM is also sweating in his underwear now if this get’s blown out of proportion.

    Who is actually causing the complication? The whole country knows it is the so-do-me & BN/PDRM/AG-gang. Why? Because they have no evidence. Where is the police report & the evidence? This has to be made known to the accused & team of lawyers, incl journalist. Then DSAI just need to go S’pore (or in any neutral ground) to get DNA profile done up & compare that with PDRM forensics result. The sample from PDRM forensics can also be cross-checked in S’pore to confirm that it is relatively fresh & not more than 10 years old. The same sample DSAI submit to S’pore for DNA can then be tested by PDRM forensics. This way, any dispute in the results can be argued, not accused. If this happens, we will all know then what is going on. BN & gang is not letting this one off so easily.

    Since this case has been made into such a high profile case, all the claimed evidence of this & that should be published for the interest of the public. Why hide it? This will only cast doubt to the public that there is no evidence. It is then just an accusation. Our 5th grade lawyer homey minister said something about law…what law is applied here? The accused has to prove he is innocent. The accuser do not need to show evidence to the accused. What kind of law is this? If this is the case, everyone can just go around accusing anyone of this & that. Then the accused have to prove that he/she is innocent. What a great law !!! So, here goes: the rakyat accuse the BN-gov of corruption & wasting tax-$. Now the BN-gov have to prove they are not otherwise they have step down or all go to Sg Buloh Resort. If not, it does seem the law is one-sided; to suppress the powerless.

  84. #84 by pjboy on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 10:02 pm

    Whoever wrote the script for this so-do-me movie is worst than a b-grade movie.

  85. #85 by despin on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 10:20 pm

    If Badawi and goons were employed in the cut-throat private sector, they would have been sacked a long time ago. Instead of focusing on things that matter such as the economy and crime, they are wasting taxpayer’s time and money to be accomplishes to a fabricated sodomy allegation from an insignificant citizen – whose police report the accused has not even seen. And Badawi said that it is not a conspiracy. Hear, hear :-(

  86. #86 by ktteokt on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 10:23 pm

    The following is our famous NATIONAL ESSAY, the RUKUNEGARA:

    BAHAWASANYA NEGARA KITA MALAYSIA mendukung cita-cita hendak :

    mencapai perpaduan yang lebih erat di kalangan seluruh masyarakatnya ;
    memelihara satu cara hidup demokratik ;
    mencipta satu masyarakat adil di mana kemakmuran Negara akan dapat dinikmati bersama secara adil dan saksama ;
    menjamin satu cara liberal terhadap tradisi-tradisi kebudayaannya yang kaya dan berbagai corak ; dan
    membina satu masyarakat progresif yang akan menggunakan sains dan teknologi moden.

    MAKA KAMI, rakyat Malaysia, berikrar akan menumpukan seluruh tenaga dan usaha kami untuk mencapai cita-cita tersebut berdasarkan atas prinsip-prinsip yang berikut :


    Just how do you think we can achieve this objective of “membina satu masyarakat progresif yang akan menggunakan sains dan teknologi moden” when our PM can utter such a thing as DNA being “outdated”? If scientists can be using DNA of the mammoths which has been extinct for millions of years for study and cloning purposes, then how can the DNA of Anwar taken 10 years ago become “outdated”? What mentality of a PM who should have governed this country according to the principles laid down in the Rukunegara. No wonder these days, school exercise books are just printed with the five main principles and omitting the preamble as they have silently admitted that the preamble is not an achievable thing and should be omitted.

    I still remember swearing to this Rukunegara under the hot sun during school assembly and I feel like an idiot now because the government had never intended to carry out what was written in it. In Malaysia, they legislate because they have to legislate and they write because they have to write. The Rukunegara is therefore no more than a piece of tattered toilet paper fit for wiping asses!!!!!!

  87. #87 by dapsupporter8888 on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 10:25 pm

    Hello everyone & excuse me.

    I think I ain’t a very intelligent person, considering that I studied arts stream in Form 4 & 5 and was never good in Maths and Science, yet I KNOW for sure that DNA never expires!

    And here this UMNO goon, the PM of Malaysia, choose to be ignorant of this fact. I’m sure he knows DNA neevr expires, but he thinks that Malaysians don’t know. As I have said hundred times and I’m gonna say it again here, that PM has obviously chose not to wake up from his beautiful dreams, lest his sleep.

    Another case of those “smart” UMNO goons insulting the intelligence of Malaysians!! Including the not-so-smart – me!!

  88. #88 by blablowbla on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 11:05 pm

    this is wat DNA all about:
    Deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) is a nucleic acid that contains the genetic instructions used in the development and functioning of all known living organisms .

    faklah,organisms,not orgasms ok?wat?did u say ogre?nononnono!but yes,u r a dumb ogre!

  89. #89 by flim1961 on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 11:32 pm

    Dr. Chen Man Hin:

    I believe you got it all wrong regarding the preservation of DNA for an extended period of time.

    This must be a breakthrough in bio science that “old” DNA and “new” DNA could be different. I am contacting a Harvard medical researcher (former Malaysian of course, that is very prominent in his field) and another prominent ex-Malaysian bio physicist (prominent in his field of course)and inform them of the latest findings. I would want to put them to shame that despite all their fundings and hi-tech equipment in the USA, they cannot even conclude what our very abled Malaysian folks can. Malaysia Boleh!

  90. #90 by MyPeoplePower on Wednesday, 23 July 2008 - 11:52 pm

    Now we can see the difference between the Dr with High mentality such as Dr Chen Man Hin and Dr with Low mentality such as Dr Chua Sui Lek who try to insult the intelligent of Rakyat (if you read his blog about the comment on DNA)!

  91. #91 by flim1961 on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 12:02 am

    I actually asked my neighbor’s 9 year old kid, who I think is very intelligent. His main interest is studying DNA and would like to pursue a bio science career at a prestigous university in the US. He did not realize that “old” dna and “new” dna can be different in terms of profiling. So I told him that he should apply to the Malaysian universities instead and forget about his IVY League dreams, as they are in the forefront of such pioneering breakthroughs.

  92. #92 by tourman53 on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 12:09 am

    Now the police and Saiful is in deep trouble. They never thought that Anwar will refuse to give DNA sample. Now how are these morons going to fabricate stories to cheat the public. Abdullah and gang is desperate in getting Anwar blood sample. Hope Anwar will not repeat his mistake any more.

  93. #93 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 12:16 am

    Kathy Says:

    Yesterday at 13: 47.24
    They already have the ones since 1998, why not sure those. Unless of course they want to fabricate misleading evidence..”

    You don’t fabricate mis-leading evidence. You fabricate evidence! If evidence is already misleading where is the need to fabricate mah??

  94. #94 by pkrisnin on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 12:20 am

    Another development

    I just heard the news gov. ask both side to swear they did not do it and the case will be forgotten. Anwar refuse and wants the case to take its legal course. Did I hear this correctly, anyone else hear this at TV 3 tonight.

  95. #95 by flim1961 on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 1:48 am

    Top 5 reasons why Anwar should give his new DNA to replace old DNA:

    5. Old DNA no good. Would you like to eat nasi kandar that has been around for 10 years?
    4. term New DNA is better, like new car smells and feels better. Who would not want a new car? Like a Mercedes Benz?
    3. DNA changes, for example, we have grey hair now compared to 30 years ago. We are follicly challenged now compared to 30 years ago. If we have changed, so does DNA. (using theory of anology and extrapolation)
    2. Watson-Crick DNA research not relevant because they are from foreign universities, and therefore, tak boleh harap. Besides, it was not part of Hadhari concept.

    AND the number 1 reason:

    1. Because we say so. You May Not Object. Get it?

    let us take time out to laugh out loud at ourselves, if possible. Blessings to all the Malaysians, regardless of race, religion or political affiliation. Love you guys.

  96. #96 by flyer168 on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 5:22 am

    Dear YB LKS,


    Dr. Chen Man Hin has said it Loud & Clear.

    This daily kindergarten Cat Mouse Political saga is nothing but a “Personal Vendetta” carried out by “Their” running dogs with promises of Promotions & maybe $$$!

    Just WHO is Managing this nation….to Mitigate the sub-prime Financial Tsunami at our doorsteps !

    July 21 2008 (Bloomberg) –

    It’s becoming the highest-rating program in Asia:
    Malaysia’s crime scene investigations.

    “Sodomy, Murder, DNA Tests Make `CSI Malaysia’: William Pesek

    Quote: Financiers may be perfectly happy to watch CSI at home. They are far less keen on exposing their money to a whodunit playing out on Malaysia’s national stage.” unquote.

  97. #97 by flyer168 on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 5:38 am

    Dear YB LKS,

    Whilst still on the DNA issue – maybe this article could shed some light to all concerned.

    “DNA isn’t the answer. Often it’s the problem.”

    The double helix genetic compilation known as DNA has become a double conundrum for rape victims in seeking justice in the courtroom. The problem stems from the public’s fascination with DNA and crime.

    dna testing 180708 – It’s commonly referred to as the ‘CSI effect’ so named for the trio of popular shows on CBS that solve crimes based on the tiniest fragment of DNA and scientific evidence.

    “People expect DNA or scientific evidence in every case and the reality is it doesn’t exist in most cases,” Sangamon County Assistant State’s Attorney Sheryl Essenburg said. “It’s very much the exception.”

    In fact, the Federal Bureau of Investigation reports that DNA is available in only 10-20 percent of cases. Therefore, DNA isn’t the silver bullet the general public expects and often it’s not even available to be fired.

    However, its presence or lack thereof is still a key issue at most jury trials. The jury expects DNA or scientific evidence, and the prosecution must educate the jury during each trial on the hazards of over anticipating the importance of science.

    “It’s a hurdle that in every jury trial we have to address, especially in child sexual abuse cases,” Essenburg said.

    Its presence is becoming an issue in adult cases as well. The case involving the Duke lacrosse team became a national debate when 46 of 47 team members were required to submit to DNA testing. When DNA matches were not found, the defense quickly jumped to the conclusion that a rape hadn’t occurred.

    “That leap is a misunderstanding of what DNA can and can’t prove,” said Michelle Anderson, a law professor at Villanova University. “DNA can prove sex occurred. DNA can’t prove that sex didn’t occur.”

    The DNA conundrum adds to the obstacles against victims achieving justice in the courtroom. It falls in the same category as the beliefs that victims of sexual assault are always physically injured during the assault.

    “This focus on DNA evidence seems to be in the historical line with the requirement for physical force,” Anderson said. “Rape cases are frequently low priority for prosecutors. They see them as difficult to obtain a conviction. Prosecutors are more concerned about their won-loss record than serving the victim of rape in a community.

    What is true across different jurisdictions is that prosecutors and police exercise particular scrutiny with rape victims that is historically excessive and today continues to be excessive.”

    Why isn’t DNA there?

    ambulance medical service 100907 – patient DNA might not be found in sexual assaults for a variety of reasons. Despite what television portrays, DNA and other scientific evidence isn’t waiting patiently to be snatched up and raced away for testing by a lab technician. The majority of victims do not report to the hospital so DNA evidence isn’t collected. And if a victim reports to a hospital, time can alter the findings.

    “DNA is only available when it has been reported after a few hours, not just DNA but any scientific evidence,” Essenburg said.

    Even if DNA is available, it can also be compromised throughout the chain of evidence, which often ventures into weeks and months instead of hours.

    “DNA evidence degrades rapidly,” Anderson said. “It is difficult to contain efficiently and handle effectively.”

    Also, there are simple reasons for the absence of DNA. The rapist may not have ejaculated inside or on the body of the victim. The rapist may not have ejaculated at all. The assailant may have used a condom during the attack. The assailant may have used an object to assault the victim.

    “People don’t understand that. They think rape is always a sexual act when it’s often about power and controlling someone else,” Anderson said.

    Stranger vs. Acquaintance

    The greatest benefit of DNA to rape victims comes in stranger rape cases. DNA samples can be used to match with convicted offenders or help string together evidence in a serial rape case. This benefit with DNA and stranger cases produces the unintended consequence of strengthening the rape myth that all rapes are committed by strangers. In fact, only approximately 20 percent of rape cases are stranger cases.

    nipah pig farmer case govt court case 150708 02 – “In general, DNA evidence is going to be focused on stranger rape cases, CSI focuses on stranger rape cases. National news focuses on stranger rape cases,” Anderson said. “We have a societal obsession with the man that strikes from behind a bush and drags the victim away to a dark alley.”

    If DNA is found in acquaintance rape, the assailant simply states that the sex was consensual, negating the DNA evidence.

    The impact of DNA differs greatly depending on the age of the victim. If the victim is a child, DNA evidence can be especially beneficial in the courtroom. However, it’s rare that DNA is involved because the reality is that most child victims wait several days or years to inform law enforcement about the sexual violence. Essenburg has never tried a child sexual abuse case that included DNA findings.

    “If it’s there, particularly in a child case, it’s fabulous,” Essenburg said. “In an adult victim case, if it’s there it doesn’t eliminate the issue of consent.”

    And consent still rattles the cage of most juries. If DNA is found, the assailant claims consensual sex. If DNA isn’t found, the assailant claims there wasn’t an assault. It comes out to the assailant’s advantage in most cases.

    “Some people have the assumption that DNA evidence is going to be there and if it isn’t, people assume that the victim is lying about the case,”

    Anderson said.

    Deciding who is speaking the truth in rape cases is at the crux of most rape verdicts.

    Words vs. Science

    muslim islam malays 250806 women – Perhaps the most disheartening aspect of the DNA evidence is that it is another method in which the voice of victims can be silenced in the courtroom.

    “Victim testimony in rape cases has never been a slam dunk for women,”

    Anderson said.

    “Historically prosecutors want bruises, broken bones, evidence of physical force. The narrative of he said, she said is all about rape cases. Her voice has never meant as much.”

    In a time when too few rape cases are prosecuted, the lack of DNA can provide an excuse for not prosecuting a case. Prosecutors and the public need to remember that rape cases were tried prior to DNA evidence and still need to be tried with or without DNA support.

    It’s important to remember that DNA is a single part of the evidence collection. If the victim goes to the hospital, a multitude of evidence is collected during the forensic medical examination (rape kit) that is performed by medical personnel.

    “The media so plays up the scientific wonder that some people forget that it is who you believe,” Essenburg said. “We have to remember as prosecutors and jurors need to understand that it’s going to be there in some cases and in other cases it’s not going to be there.”

    As usual in discussing rape or myths about rape, education will play a key factor in turning the tide about what DNA can and can’t do for rape victims.

    “The work to publicise DNA evidence is really helpful but it’s not going to have the impact that CSI will,” Anderson said. “People need to challenge the shows … They need to put pressure on the popular shows to talk about these kinds of issues.”

    Pressure to understand the good and the bad about DNA evidence and its affect on rape victims.


    SEAN BLACK works for the Illinois Coalition Against Sexual Assault (ICASA), a not-for-profit corporation of 33 community-based sexual assault crisis centers working together to end sexual violence in Illinois communities.

  98. #98 by trublumsian on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 6:16 am

    blogger: i think the police, the PM/DPM, and the whole lot are equally ignorant of how DNA works.

    meanwhile, on the 4th floor of a certain building..

    pm: dang, our DNA people said these things last a long time? really?! o shucks! now we got to frame anwar with other stuff.

    dpm: but dollah, the rakyat won’t know. we didn’t send them to schools in uk, u.s., au, etc.

    kowtow 1: sweeeet! weren’t we smart to send only the ones who still think DNA means damn-nice-ass on our scholarships?!

    pm/dpm/kowtows: hee hee hee… ha ha ha… wua haa haa haa…wua haa haa haa….

  99. #99 by trublumsian on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 6:37 am

    i don’t get it. is the police asking for anwar’s dna so they can match it to what was found on or around the purported victim?

    did the police even say they have evidence taken from the victim? in which case shouldn’t the defense have the right to ask to see and examine the evidence first to determine if there is even a case?

    and shouldn’t the police start with a just cause for the case by matching the 10 yr old records to current evidence from the crime scene/victim to force the hands of the defense?

  100. #100 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 7:20 am

    “Also, there are simple reasons for the absence of DNA. The rapist may not have ejaculated inside or on the body of the victim. The rapist may not have ejaculated at all. The assailant may have used a condom during the attack. The assailant may have used an object to assault the victim.”

    Thanks for the info! Limkamput and Kathy may be able to work something out together.

  101. #101 by Hishamuddin on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 8:20 am

    YB Lim,
    This is a simple rape case CSI case. In more advance country or even Malaysia this case can be solved in 1-2 days. They already have the victim and rapist. So why need more investigation ?

    All they need to check is the sample inside Saiful now. If they find the rapist sample in it, then the case is finish. case close. I am sure they already have Anwar’s DNA profile by now to do matching after the case 10 years ago.

    if they require another DNA profile of Anwar, he can always go to a credible Singapore Hospital and get it done with and give the Malaysian police his DNA profile and see if it matches. This samples must be marked.

    Case close. Why takes so long ??????

  102. #102 by yhsiew on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 8:25 am

    “Remember the case of Sukma Dermawan? He spent six months in jail. I spent six years! There was evidence by the foreign doctors of tampering with evidence. They found no penetration, but we were still jailed.” ……….In a strident voice, he reminded reporters and photographers present today of the stained mattress hauled into court 10 years ago and how the chemist under questioning then had first claimed the stains to be “sperm” but later when questioned by foreign experts, backtracked his statement and alleged that the police had forced him to give the first statement.

  103. #103 by smashchye on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 8:48 am

    im sure anwar are well aware of his action now. shud hev learnt from experience.i dun tink hes that stupid to do that again(if he did it last time) just to jeopardize his newfound career

  104. #104 by StevePCH on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 9:01 am

    What do u expect to get fm the current cabinet ?
    The Health Minister tarak Dr. , mayb if Dr. CSL is at helm then it would make a difference. But he was a bit too bz scr**ing.
    As for the rest of the “new” minister, haha … hardly know anyone else.
    Shabby, first time heard and seen him.
    Who is the current Work minister…? mayb next time we hear from him is going to be toll naik 10%
    Science n Technology Minister … is it Ongkili ?


    After going through this blog, I seriously think Malaysia have no chance of survivng the next recession !

  105. #105 by tourman53 on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 9:17 am

  106. #106 by law1999 on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 9:18 am

    Recession is coming.
    At your door step NOW

    Prices of good is up up up.
    Inflation is at 27 years high.

    Crime rate is up up up.

    Interest rate will be up up up

    Business activity down down down

    Just wait a see how we go down down down

  107. #107 by ktteokt on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 9:26 am

    Someone please sodomize the RUKUNEGARA!!!!

  108. #108 by fido on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 11:24 am

    If don’t know anything about DNA, better keep their mouth shut. Everytime they open their mouth with the HP6 info and questions, they make themselves a laughing stock to the world.

    Have the govt reached a point of no return?

  109. #109 by yhsiew on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 12:45 pm

    Comment from Condoleezza Rice:

    “We want to see transparency and for rule of law to be completely followed here,” she told reporters just before going into the 27-nation meeting. “We are always going to speak up on human rights cases, political cases, but we do so in a spirit of respect for Malaysia.”

    Rice said “part of the comfort level or the confidence that states need to bring to the international system is that their judicial systems are indeed responsive to rule of law and (are) transparent and fair.”

    She also rejected Malaysia’s claim that the Anwar case is an internal affair.

  110. #110 by negarawan on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 12:59 pm

    The USA is not blind and ignorant. They can see the judiciary rot that is going on in Malaysia re the Lingam case, Altantuya, Anwar. Thank you Condoleeza for making a fair stand, and we hope EU will also make their stand soon. US and EU should impose some kind of sanction on the corrupted UMNO “leaders”.

  111. #111 by One4All4One on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 2:12 pm

    Where are all the smart scientists, doctors, and technologists in the country? How come no one come forward to advise the government on the real situation and facts regarding genetics and related matters?

    It really doesn’t reflect well on the nation which boasts of first class facilities. The reflection of a third world mentality and capability is so glaring in this instance.

    Mr. Anwar’s DNA is perhaps the most researched DNA in Malaysian forensic labs. What conclusion can we make of this? Make sure when we ask for something, we know what it is all about, else there would be more questions than answers. And the doubt would be on the party who ask.

    In a situation like this, Mr Anwar would be seen as a victim rather than the perpetrator. What about the status of the said victim? If the police is so confident that they have a case against Mr Anwar, they should proceed to charge him now. So many weeks have passed, and still no clue as to what to charge against him? Malaysian police seem to be very efficient in many cases and glaringly claim credit for being effective, it is thought. Why the delay then?

    Justice delayed is justice denied, so the saying goes. The trial by the mainstream media and interested politicians are most unfair to the so-called accuse. The Malaysian Bar Council’s statement on the matter should be upheld and respected. Politicians should not make, let alone throw, incriminating and partial statements in this regard. There should be a gag on this.

  112. #112 by Richardqed on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 4:20 pm

    “When 96 foreign diplomats rushed to a Home Ministry briefing on a two-hour notice yesterday, Home Minister Datuk Seri Syed Hamid Albar was pleased. He had managed to attract twice the number of diplomats than Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim did a day before and there were many more ambassadors and high commissioners in the audience.” — malaysianinsider website

    The diplomats can return to their embassies with smiling faces and typical diplomatic politeness, but whether they are convinced at all by Syed Hamid’s explanations is a totally different thing.

    How do you think Syed Hamid would explain:
    – why his boss the PM made that joke of a statement about the DNA sample being too old?
    – why the alleged victim meets up with the DPM?
    – why the DPM initially denies knowing the victim?
    – why the need to hide the police report? does it still need amendments to make the case against Anwar air-tight?

    If the man in the street is not convinced, these diplomats are not going to be convinced either. If anything, the moment they get back to their embassies, they will be letting out the laughter they had been trying to suppress, and start rolling on the floor upon recalling the jokes-of-excuses they heard during the briefing.

  113. #113 by negarawan on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 5:42 pm

    The problem with UMNO politicians is that they have overrated themselves into thinking that they can also control and play their dirty games on other nations. Rais Yatim lost Pulau Batu Putih and now we are also going to lose the waters, and he is still portraying an arrogant attitude. No foreign diplomat believes in Hamid Alba’s lies and deceit, and already they are making statements that they vehemently disagree with him. Foreign investors are losing confidence in Malaysia because the PM is talk only but no results.

  114. #114 by Evenmind on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 5:51 pm

    There will be a CSI Malaysian version soon , lookout for it, its all going to about main pantat, changing DNa’s ( latest study )and more titilating forensics that will make CSI Miami look so tame.The whole budget for this production will granted by UMNO becos they so love this kinda of s h i t. , and yes there would be a world wide release too.

  115. #115 by milduser on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 6:02 pm

    ” Someone please sodomize the RUKUNEGARA!!!!”

    Get the father of sodomee, that roadside mamak stall ex-PM to start first!

  116. #116 by law1999 on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 6:41 pm


    Syed Hamid have a party in PUTRAJAYA to BRAIN WASH all the DIPLOMATS

    We are taught from young that if you are RIGHT you need not tell the whole world you are RIGHT.

    So only those who are guilty will try to JUST*FY they are NOT.

    Syed Hamid have cause a STAND STILL in KL traffic for 3 days and he have not give a VALID reasons for doimg so.

    WAH too many NONSENCE and CLOWNS is running the country

    We already KNOW NAJIS and PI will not be call to court because BN is there.

    I am not in favor to any political party. I am for the person who do RIGHT things.

  117. #117 by riversandlakes on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 8:43 pm

    The age of impunity is over!

  118. #118 by riversandlakes on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 8:45 pm

    Didn’t mean to rewind that.

    DSAI should refuse and blow up the matter as huge as it can get.

    “Make Barang Naik the laughing stock of the world” -> good one, Uncle Lim.

  119. #119 by myint3 on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 10:33 pm

    Maybe they are going to clone DSAI, kidnap the real DSAI and transplant a cloned DSAI to do their bidding.

  120. #120 by shamshul anuar on Thursday, 24 July 2008 - 11:32 pm

    DEar Law1999,

    SAy what? If you are right, no need to tell the world about that? now this is sure one recipe for disaster.

    What is wrong with Syed Hamid informing diplomats on the other side of the coin. I see that as an intelligent move. Tell your part of the story.

    As for Myint3, there is no need to clone Anwar. What an idiotic expression. The million dollar questions asked by Malays in mosques, coffee shops, wedding reception of evev funeral is this: Why the reluctance is swearing in the name of Allah if you are not guilty. What is there to afraid of?

  121. #121 by Richardqed on Friday, 25 July 2008 - 1:25 am

    “After sketching events surrounding the sodomy allegation against the Opposition icon, Syed Hamid took questions on the political uncertainty in the country; on why Deputy Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak met Anwar’s accuser a few days before police report was lodged and on the police handling of the case so far.”
    — malaysianinsider website

    Despite the much-reported and publicized excuses the Barang Naik gang provided about why the DPM met with the accuser, the diplomats still questioned Syed Hamid on this. It’s pretty clear how much they doubt this fellow’s answers. It is obvious that his answers to the diplomats could not be different from what was published in the newspapers, because then he would be contradicting his earlier statements. And since his answers would be the same answers he had given all along, obviously they are still doubting him.

    In fact, the TRILLION-DOLLAR questions asked by ALL MALAYSIANS including Malays, Chinese, Indians and everyone else, and by diplomats of nations worldwide now:

    – why the PM made that joke of a statement about the DNA sample being too old?
    – why the alleged victim meets up with the DPM?
    – why the DPM initially denies knowing the victim?
    – why the need to hide the police report? does it still need amendments to make the case against Anwar air-tight?

    And to people who keep asking why Anwar does not swear, they must have forgetten that Najis also never did swear regarding the Altantuya thing. Yeah, first ask Najis the same question. “What is there to be afraid of?” Obviously, when it comes to who should swear first, the more serious the crime, the more whoever should swear first. So, which crime is more serious: murder or sodomy?

  122. #122 by undergrad2 on Friday, 25 July 2008 - 6:15 am

    Rais Yatim said he sent a protest letter to Condi expressing regret over what he said were “uncalled for” and tantamount to interference in Malaysia’s affairs.

    Condi Rice said the United States doesn’t recognize this very firm barrier that it is simply internal affairs when a case of this kind comes up!

    If this is not a slap in the face of Malaysia’s Foreign Minister I don’t know what is!! Ordinarily this would have led to some staff reduction in the U.S. Embassy as a gesture to show Malaysian government’s displeasure over the remarks – but it did not!

  123. #123 by yhsiew on Friday, 25 July 2008 - 8:15 am

    Former Canadian prime minister Paul Martin, ex-World Bank chief James Wolfensohn, and Michel Camdessus, the former head of the International Monetary Fund, asked Malaysia to drop its sodomy charges against Anwar because similar unsubstantiated charges filed 10 years ago against him were overturned by the Supreme Court.”

    They hoped that “the government of Malaysia will … demonstrate, by dropping the charges… an exemplary sense of respect for the rights of the individual which are so important to the international standing of Malaysia.”

    The three expressed “full confidence in Anwar’s moral integrity.”

    It is a shame that BN is prepared to allow the country’s image to be tarnished internationally in order to fulfill its selfish agenda. BN’s irresponsible action will scare away prospective foreign investors.

  124. #124 by AhLiew on Friday, 25 July 2008 - 12:00 pm

    shamshul anuar,

    Read what medical expert say about this DNA laugh stock:

    what can be possible “on the other side of the coin”, as Syed Hamid phase it? If there is any, why not tell it to us, all Malaysian? Everyone are urge for the explanation.

    You say :”Why the reluctance is swearing in the name of Allah if you are not guilty. What is there to afraid of”.
    Don’t you understand that it’s the prosecutor’s responsibility to prove that Anwar is guilty and not the other way round. We do not even have a case here, no police report to show.

    On the other hand, your logic is really twisted.
    Now I believe you have take too many drug.
    I challenge you to “swearing in the name of Allah if you are not”. dare to talk my challenge? “What is there to afraid of”?

  125. #125 by AhLiew on Friday, 25 July 2008 - 12:07 pm

    By the way, it become a laughing stock because most average Joe know DNA profile is permanent.
    Still it’s good to get verification from expert.

  126. #126 by trublumsian on Friday, 25 July 2008 - 2:08 pm

    shamshul anuar,

    what can the other side of the coin be? the discerning world leaders have long formed their opinion of the ruling malaysian government at the outset of tdm’s ploy at anwar. all the rudimentary mistakes made by the current pm, dpm, syed hamid, police, ag, just can’t be explained away. condi is a very intelligent person, so is joe biden, who was a presidential candidate. the bn goons are best not to embarrass themselves by engaging in exchanges over the global media. just look at the comments reported in the last 2 days. syed hamid’s is laughable, and that’s a compliment.

  127. #127 by dkkl on Friday, 25 July 2008 - 4:07 pm

    aiya, Police assume Anwar’s body is like a food factory mah… so the DNA must have expiry date lor…

    So PDRM is making themself like a stupid clown in the eye of the world…. What a shame!

  128. #128 by Godfather on Friday, 25 July 2008 - 6:01 pm

    Shamshul Anuar:

    While Syed Hamid was presenting “the other side of the coin” to foreign diplomats, Singapore is quietly gearing up to present its side of the coin on pedra branca. Instead of making stupid remarks like “fresh DNA specimen” and “what are you afraid of”, can you get Syed Hamid, Rais Yatim and the AG to prepare the Malaysian side of the coin for a more important case ahead ?

    Or is maritime law too difficult for UMNO, and sodomy law is significantly easier to handle, which explains why everyone in UMNO wants to jump on the bandwagon ?

  129. #129 by cucu adam on Saturday, 26 July 2008 - 7:58 pm

    The claimed that they hope to attain a first class mentality is sheer wistful thinking and does not hold water.

    Indeed it is a shame to the whole world that our leaders and their advisers cannot understand the purpose of DNA, and as to whether it will change through the passage of time. An innocent mistake I supposed.

    Of late we had Ministers whom we feel were different from the rest and that they will used their brains and listen to the public appeals. From their reactions over the past few weeks they had been talking rubbish and it became obviously they too were also like the rest. In particular the two ministers that I am referring are Syed Albar and Sharil.

  130. #130 by shamshul anuar on Monday, 28 July 2008 - 10:41 pm

    Dear GOdfather,

    There is no need for Singapore to present its case on Pedra Branca. Singapore was awarded sovereignty on Pedra Branca While Malaysia over adjacent outcrop.

    As far as I know, Dr Raias had already registered diplomatic note to Singapore . Anyway, you are right. Malaysia has also right in that area as ICJ awarded Batuan Tengah to Malaysia. Any unilateral action is wrong.

  131. #131 by shamshul anuar on Monday, 28 July 2008 - 10:51 pm

    Dear Ahliew,

    Exactly that is the situation. Why making fuss over Hamid Albar’s informing Govt side of the story. If Anwar can present his view, why cant Syed Hamid.

    As goes the saying, the truth shall prevail. What is that to afraid of. I assume you are not aware the significance of swearing in the name of Allah as per islamic tradition. It is considered by Muslim worldwide as the ultimate act of declaring one’s honesty. Ask any Muslim and they all are waiting for Anwar to swear. Why cant he just accepting the challenge from his accuser. What is holding him. Why cant he swear in full view of press say in Masjid Negara or in his constituency. By swearing, he will turn back the pressure to his accuser.

    Why the delay. You were accused of sodomy . And you said you did not do it. So, just swear. It has no legal implication. But your reputation is enhanced.

    And for your info, as far as I know, there is no charge against Anwar until today.

    I am not accusing Anwar nor I am supporting him in this case.

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