Madmix,I find your observation and what you say about what is happening in this country pertaining to the rise of the ulamas rather interesting,and certainly from the goings-on in the country the rise of the ulamas will be fast and unstoppable if the silent majority in this country remains silent.This is the inherent danger challenging the legitimate power of the constitution.

Like the belief indoctrinated at an impressionable at the madrasah that 72 virgins will be waiting up there if one were to die for Islam?

Mus_JB,
If you say that since Farish Noor is not an Islamic scholar, his writing on this particular fatwa on Yoga cannot be scholarly I’ll then have to ask you how come you think the fatwa on some dressing that these clerical scholars think will lead to tomboyism which in turn will lead to lesbianism.What is so scholarly about the connection between dressing and lesbianism? As a matter of fact there is also word that we have a lesbian in the malaysian cabinet.
Then again what about the destruction of the 2 Buddhah statues of Bumiyan in Afghanistan by blowing them up to smithereens just like Altantuya?These are priceless jewels of human civilisations the ‘scholarly’ clerics of Afghanistan have placed a fatwa on.Scholarly?? Would you say that?

Mus_JB,
Neither did I say you are accusing him of not being an Islamic
scholar.What I am saying is that not being an Islamic scholar doesn’t mean he can’t write anything scholarly about things pertaining to Islam.What he says in this thread casting doubt on the wisdom of ‘scholarly’ clerics is argued persuasively with logic clearly coming from a mind of a scholar.What he presented is scholarly.On the other hand the ‘scholarly’ clerics from the Fatwa council does not make much sense to me.
I do not know why you brought up Mao Tze Tung’s case but since you have done so I completely agree with you that some of the things he did were simply atrocious.But China has been lucky to have Deng Xiaoping and undo all the harm inflicted by Mao to move China forward.China would not be what she is today without him.

imranj 78,
Since when you have become the keeper of free expression? Has it been bestowed upon you by Tuan Allah?? You will certainly find that nobody who are non Muslims will care to comment on strictly Muslim matters but the problem in this country is oftentimes pronouncements by ulamas have impacted upon non Muslim lives as well.
I definitely concur with your assertion that Farish Noor is entitled to his views and one can tell what he has said is the work of a mind that gives great credence to logic and evidence thereby giving strong appeal to one’s intellect compared to the reasons by the ‘scholarly’ clerics of the Fatwa Council when they place Fatwa on Yoga as well as fatwa on the dressings of tomboys for fear of leading them to lesbianism.These fatwas leading to a ban on them also have the possibilities of expanding to the rest.Then what about the fatwa on the 2 Buddhist statues of Bumiyan in Afghanistan leading to their destructions by blowing them to pieces.Muslim fatwa has caused that and you expect non Muslims everywhere to shut up regarding the fatwa since they don’t know about Islam.A world heritage is being destroyed and anyone who has felt the loss has the god-damn right to condemn!!

I am addressing above comment to imranj78.

‘an opinion is like an axxhole,everybody has got one!1’. oedipus.

Exactly you have got a bull’s eye but there are some here who thinks that they have got a right to ask non muslims not to poke their noses into muslim matters without proper understanding.

And you have got it spot on again when you say we can’t say that the Mumbai problem is not our problem and we can’t comment on it since we are not Indian nationals,and if i may add we also don’t understand Indian problems!! If we don’t comment on such acts of terrorism and condemn it, its spread will be encouraged and this may come to haunt us one day.Anything that can impact on us,we must comment and we must never be part of the silent majority to prevent evil from rearing its head.

Imranj78,
Why is it so difficult to understand that I don’t have to know how yoga or tomboyism relate to Muslim life as long as it has no impact on the life of others? And how did I offend Islam if you have to compare what I have said earlier to what was published in the Danish newspaper.You have in fact offended quite a few here by telling others to stop poking their noses in matters they do not know of.I am stating that as long as any indicts that could be extended to non muslim life I will come forward to have my 2 sen worth heard.YOU ARE IN FACT OFFENDING PEOPLE HERE!!Don’t try to impose your conditions,it simply doesn’t work.As far as religion is concerned most of us do respect religion per se.It does not necessary extend unconditionally to interpreters of respective religion for they are human and oftentimes they make a mockery of things in the interpretation of their religion.
Pertaining to the Danish paper do you not felt aghast at the response by Muslims of some countries.It is shocking to say the least.What about you?I suppose you can use that insensitivity as an excuse for such rampage!! Mind you I don’t condone the insensitivity but at the same time there is no need for such response.

Jeffrey,
There is this thing you haven’t mastered the art of confusing to put one off track.You are only a QC and what do you know of such art?

Mus_JB,
We are all in fact talking about fair play at the end of the day,how one community or religion must not dominate or try to exert domination over others.You can of course bring out if you like examples of how the Chinese try to marginalise the Malays or Orang Asli or any other people, i will not be offended if in fact it is the case.Do bring it up by all means,I’ll never accuse you of poking your nose.At most I’ll try to prove that you are in fact mistaken if your assertion is wrong.
On the flip side just compare your argument with that of Jeffrey’s.Jeffrey is trying to sell you people about fair play,and you are trying to ward off by trying to confuse hoping to put him off track by bringing examples totally irrelevant to the argument.

Further,in my comment “Exactly you have got a bull’s ………………some who thinks they have got to ask non muslims not to poke their noses into muslim matters without proper understanding.”,Mus_JB you have completely failed to take note of the most important word ‘some’, which in fact if you have read all the comments throughout will not fail to identify the person.And we are all discussing here on a matter raised by Farish Noor “Fatwa against yoga?How would this reflect on Muslims.”. Most of us agree with Farish and even,according to Farish the Indonesians are wondering if Malaysian Muslims got nothing better to do?Is Yoga a muslim matter? Does everybody here not know what yoga is?
My quote here is a sarcasm which you do not even see,and you come up with another twist of your own by asking me permission to poke your nose on Chinese affairs which I have given you my reply as found above.If you tell me some Chinese have the dirty habit of spitting,I will completely agree with you.If you tell me some have got the dirty habit of digging their noses in public,I’ll will also agree with you.And if you tell me Mao Tze Tung has committed some of the worst heinous crime,I’ll will also completely agree with you.I DO NOT FREE OFFENDED!

But then again,TheWrathOfGrapes,what do you know?You mustn’t poke your nose into scholarly Muslim matters for which you do not know.You have to be scholarly in those matters before you can judge whether that death sentence is justifiable or not.
And because of the ‘scholarly’ pronouncement,the two Buddhists statues have to be blown to smithereens just like Altantuya!