Are we not Indian enough?


Shyam forwarded an email from Ananthi, a Rhodes scholar, now reading for her PhD at Oxford which eloquently articulates the Malaysian Indian dilemma which should be compulsory reading by the Prime Minister and the entire Cabinet as well as all Malaysians:

Dear friends,

I feel so outraged, angry, hurt and impotent seeing the photos of the police’s (government’s) reactions to Sunday’s rally. In Batu Caves for instance, the protesters were literally boxed into the temple grounds and had water canons and tear gas shot at them. It looks totally unprovoked, except that I suppose it contravenes the court order obtained to ban the protest. But the reaction of the police should not have been to do what they did – that was an unprovoked, unjustifiable use of force.

Somewhat paradoxically, I am very grateful that this is finally happening. That the Indians have found their voices. The temple demolitions could have been the best thing to happen for our country and community in terms of seeing a grass roots agitation to topple the clearly illegitimate status hierarchy and power differential in Malaysia.

I read Malik Imtiaz’s article and I think it is good. Same for Haris Ibrahim. I only wish that people would STOP saying that they have a problem with the Indians fighting for Indian/Hindu rights. That they should be fighting for the collective poor’s rights. I am afraid I find this kind of reasoning completely devoid of logic or historical foundation. The Indians have been the most marginalised group in this country. Have there been millions of Malays who have been marginalised and who fall below the poverty line? Yes. But as a group, the Indians stand out as having received the least favour and the worst treatment over the last 50 years, BECAUSE they are Indian. So as a group they coalesce (finally) and stand up to fight for their rights, and then you have all these Malaysian liberals who would have this low status, disenfranchised group fight for the rights of ALL? When the discrimination against the Indians has been based on their group membership, suddenly we want them to put this aside, rise above it and say ‘let us fight for all the poor’?. This is seriously flawed thinking. It panders to an ideal without taking into account the reality on the ground. People are constrained by their experiences – the people of Malaysia have been taught over and again to see themselves in terms of their racial groups. Thus a reaction to the racism they have suffered is NOT a deracialised response. That would be neither possible, nor given our history, even desirable. Malaysia is all about race and as long as that is the case, people must coalesce around such groupings. Once we can, at a higher level, dismantle racial politics, policy, education etc., then we can ask that people stop thinking of themselves as Indians and more as Malaysians.

I don’t like that Hindraf has made this a Hindu issue – I think introducing religion into an already racially charged atmosphere is a very incendiary thing. And doing this means that the support of non-Hindu Indians will be absent for this cause. Having said that, Hindu reactions are not out of place given the more extreme Islamic tendencies of this country since the 1980s and the more recent destruction of temples. Seeing the images of the destruction of the temple in Shah Alam was a very painful experience. And that’s the thing about religion – its simultaneous sanctity and primacy -even when we do not buy into a particular faith- make it an incredibly emotive issue around which to gather people to action.

The last 3-4 days have been very difficult for me emotionally because I have felt hopelessly helpless sitting here in Oxford spending hours poring over spss output sheets rather than being involved on the ground back at home. I have no doubt in my mind that I would have been at that rally on Sunday. It has more to do with just protecting the right to allow people to express themselves and protest (though that is very important). It has more to do with the fact that we, as upper middle class Malaysian Indians have not done enough to show our solidarity with less socio-economically successful Indians. Of course we engage in important charity work which tries to raise the educational and socio economic standing of the Indians. We give to temple funds. We pay for individual Indian children to be fed and educated. But we are always giving a helping hand up – trying to elevate the Indians to where we are. I do not for a minute dispute that this is an incredibly important thing to be doing. But on Sunday we had the opportunity to stand alongside -shoulder to shoulder with- our fellow Indians rather than above them and I feel that many of us lost this perhaps once in a life time (though I hope I am wrong about this) opportunity. Times like this are not ones to debate over the particular words used or issues mentioned – I find it somewhat absurd that this rally would have had as one of its central aims submitting a letter to the Queen of England. For me that perpetuates us in our roles of a time that we should have long transcended. But that said, I think it would be duplicitous of me not to join in the march because of these issues.

Because I, like many of you, know that that is not what this rally was about.

It was about being neglected, about not having a seat at the table to bargain, about having a national and communal leadership that we do not trust and is utterly discreditable. It is about saying no to being the forgotten Indians, and not enough of us in our comfortable houses, those of us who managed to work the system to our benefit – stood with the other Indians, who are not so different from us.

I don’t mean to attack any of you personally. Perhaps some of you did march. Or perhaps some of you didn’t because of compelling reasons. But the fact remains that many of us who were able did not, because we don’t identify ourselves with these poorer versions of ourselves. I worry that we are not Indian enough in a way that counts.

Best wishes from a bleak and distant place,

Ananthi

  1. #1 by undergrad2 on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 3:27 am

    The student leaders then were acting on behalf of the student body which comprised students of all races. In the case of HINDRAF they represent only one race and one religious denomination. The police have a genuine cause for concern as the racial and religious nature could be a spark for something more serious.

    Ananthi was rightly concerned about this aspect:

    “I don’t like that Hindraf has made this a Hindu issue – I think introducing religion into an already racially charged atmosphere is a very incendiary thing.”

  2. #2 by undergrad2 on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 3:31 am

    The Police should have issued a police permit and then provide a strong presence like they always did when student leaders presented their petition to the Soviet officials at the gates of their Embassy.

  3. #3 by undergrad2 on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 3:41 am

    If the situation had got out control or were allowed to get out of control, then public sympathy would have been with the security forces had they acted promptly with crowd control measures like firing tear gas and water cannons to disperse the crowd.

    Right now the police and the Malaysian government would have to deal with a situation they themselves created!

  4. #4 by DarkHorse on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 3:47 am

    Yes, a demonstration about the marginalization of the Indians rapidly deteriorated to issues of public order which is a police matter. It is to be expected they now refer to the Internal Security Act.

    We cannot now be sure about who created what situation and when.

  5. #5 by Godamn Singh on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 4:02 am

    “Give limkamput a chance to air his views about the right to dissent” EARNEST

    We should not give opinionated scumbags like him who could not receive what he dishes out to readers. Already it is very irritating to have to read his skewed nonsensical comments on issues whenever he chose to do so (but mostly not) intermingled as it always is with his tirade.

    In any case you are barking up the wrong tree. He has been bashing readers for talking rubbish, talking cock and being a moron. Let’s see him take the same abuse he gives to others.

    You call that the right of others to dissent. We call that our right to put him back where he belongs – in the rubbish bin.

  6. #6 by Colonel on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 6:32 am

    “…he right to free speech should rightly include others’ right to comment on the views expressed here. If some of views are rubbish and filled with ignorance, they should rightly be labelled so.”

    Somebody needs to teach this Kg. Attap brat some civility since he clearly does not understand the meaning of the word.

  7. #7 by lakshy on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 6:40 am

    Sorry posted this in the wrong thread. Should have posted it here.

    When one is constipated, one knows what medication or traditional remedies to take to help evacuate the blockage. But one must know where to go to do it. Presumably it is to the toilet bowl. Hence my comment to the kid is to deliver his “sh1t” to the right place.

    There is no need to comment if he has nothing to say or to contribute. Thats what he should learn. Thats also why I refer to him as being constipated! He probably sees himself coming to your level as he seems to adore you. Or are you the same person using different nicks?

  8. #8 by Godamn Singh on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 6:44 am

    Who you talking about?

  9. #9 by lakshy on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 7:05 am

    One definition, and I am sure there are many:-

    [E]thnic cleansing is a well-defined policy of a particular group of persons to systematically eliminate another group from a given territory on the basis of religious, ethnic or national origin. Such a policy involves violence and is very often connected with military operations. It is to be achieved by all possible means, from discrimination to extermination, and entails violations of human rights and international humanitarian law.”[3]

    Does that sound even the vaguest bit familiar? See it happening anywhere nearby?

    What about calls for “balik India or balik china”? And what about the Moorthy and Revathi and many other such cases? And temple destruction in “commando” style? Kampung Medan? Would they qualify?

    I wonder whether there is enough discrimination occuring in boleh-land for one to call it discrimination. You try being an Indian Lady with excellent qualifications looking for a job. Perhaps only then you can begin to fathom the extent of discrimination. We are treated as a sub-sub class!

    Meritocracy? Got meh in la-la land? Look at the private companies, almost all run by non-malays. But when it comes to GLC’s all run by one race? In private sector you climb up mainly through performance. How did these guys climb up the ladder in the GLC’s? Tried and tested ah? May explain the mediocre and loss making performance of the GLC’s.

    Meritocracy in education and university intake? Who you trying to kid? It is all discrimination.

    Got any violence or not when they forcibly destroy temples? I wonder why the many squatter areas and Indon squatter areas are not destroyed in similar fashion? Perhaps cos got pay protection money to police and Immigration!

    When it comes to election time, all these squatter areas got electricity and piped later supply. You tell me which squatter area does not have astro/electricity/piped water today?

    But Indians displaced from estates dont get their rights protected. Marginalisation? When a company decides to sell its estates for commercial development, they are obligated to provide for their workers. But who has done this for the indian workers who were living on estates and played a vital role in developing this nation? Sub-sub class mah…..no need to do anything.

    Minimum wage for plantation………..less than 400 ringgit. How many of you go through that in a couple of days? And these people who have brought development and wealth to you have to feed a family of 4 or more for a month. I hope you sleep well.

    And to say that one is better off in Malaysia than in India is real katak di bawah tempurung mentality that can only come from la-la land’s supposed “leaders” and their followers, many of whom contribute to this site too!

  10. #10 by Jeffrey on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 8:27 am

    ..//.Great minds think alike..// – diversionary of issue at hand. :)

  11. #11 by undergrad2 on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 8:57 am

    Poor Earnest is lost, isn’t he?

  12. #12 by EARNEST on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 9:53 am

    indulging in elegant silence.

  13. #13 by Godfather on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 10:35 am

    A term coined by non-other than Musa Hitam. He (Musa) must be regretting it now.

  14. #14 by DAPHNE on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 10:49 am

    Even if is is authentic, as in my case?

  15. #15 by undergrad2 on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 11:00 am

    Welcome back EARNEST – since when have you been a cross-dresser??

  16. #16 by DAPHNE on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 11:12 am

    There are lots of double standards here now. Some high-priest of civility is practising selective prosecution. Others can not disparage the messengers, his accomplices can, and with impunity. I have been an observer, reading and not writing. But I think things are getting out of hands now, and I need to give them a piece of my mind. It is my social and moral responsibility to do so.

    I do not know who EARNEST is, but I support him. I am a fair minded individual with a strong Catholic background.

  17. #17 by Godfather on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 11:43 am

    Which is why “they” will not prosecute anyone under the Sedition Act unless it is an isolated and clear-cut incident. They can charge us with unlawful assembly, but the courts will probably impose a small fine if you plead guilty. If you plead not guilty, the court will let you go on a small bail amount, and you can spend years waiting for your chance to be heard in open court.

    They may detain us under the ISA, but this would merely inflame the silent majority, and would inevitably bring international fame to Bolehland, something which they will try to avoid, particularly as several bilateral treaties are still unsigned.

  18. #18 by Tai Lo Chin on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 1:14 pm

    Yea, things are getting out of hands, suddenly unheard of new visitors in this blog emerging out of nothingness, one after another, self proclaiming to be reading and not writing in this blog unless when fair minded duty requires to support another relatively newcomer that is not known to him, and quoting religious credentials to support all claims, yea, things are getting stranger and stranger in this blog, I would say.

  19. #19 by DAPHNE on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 1:32 pm

    Tai Lo Chin,

    I am a keen observer. Jeffrey, Tai Lo Chin, Colonel and probably Undergrad2 are one and the same person. Truth is stranger than fiction.

    Tai Lo Chin is suspicious because he practises multiple-masquerades. Please do not question my faith. It is a sensitive issue.

  20. #20 by DAPHNE on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 1:42 pm

    Tai Lo Chin means BIG CON-MAN or SWINDLER in Chinese.

    Hello, everybody, your attention please. Do not get con by such a person who has already revealed his real intention inadvertantly. His presence will defile this respectable space.

  21. #21 by Tai Lo Chin on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 1:49 pm

    Jeffrey, Tai Lo Chin, Colonel and probably Undergrad2 are one and the same person and going by your logic Limkamput, Earnest, Daphne and probably Lakshy are also one and same person, so it is only two persons are quarrelling in this blog. LOL

  22. #22 by Tai Lo Chin on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 2:19 pm

    Is it fairminded to say things like this of my name?

  23. #23 by lakshy on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 3:22 pm

    GS,

    Undergrad2

  24. #24 by lakshy on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 3:26 pm

    Undergrad2: Please read the letter below before making further statements.

    PRESS RELEASE :Inquiry needed into why innocent devotees affected by police action at Batu Caves Murugan Temple on Sunday, 25th November 2007

    The Malaysia Hindu Sangam calls for an urgent and independent inquiry into the events at Batu Caves in the early hours of Sunday, 25th November 2007. Many people have complained to the Sangam that they were caught up in police action against the HINDRAF Rally when all they were doing was attending a religious ceremony in the Batu Caves temple.

    Saturday night, 24th November 2007 was a special celebration for many Tamil Hindus. It was the night of Karthikai Deepam, a festival of lights of special significance to Tamils. Many celebrate it as a commemoration to Lord Arumugam, also known as Murugan or Karthikeyan, whose 6 faces were united by his mother Goddess Shakthi on the Karthikai Deepam day. Hence, devotees flock to the temples devoted to Lord Muruga that night and one such temple is of course the world famous Batu Caves temple in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

    Many devotees, having celebrated the festival, were spending the night in the Temple grounds before leaving for home the next day. Imagine their shock when in the wee hours of the morning, they were greeted by tear gas and water cannon and by a massive police presence alleging they were involved in an illegal assembly.

    An urgent and independent inquiry must immediately be done to investigate how innocent devotees gathered within a place of worship were subjected to tear gas and chemical laced water cannon. The Hindu Sangam also calls on the Public Prosecutor to withdraw all charges against the devotees at the temple. Gathering at a temple for a religious ceremony cannot be deemed an illegal assembly under any circumstances.

    Yours in service,

    Datuk A Vaithilingam PJN, SSA, AMN, ASA, PJK
    President
    Malaysia Hindu Sangam

  25. #25 by teluyalam on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 4:11 pm

    Hi Lakshy, thats y i said 35%, the remainder 65% is of course the great people with the great religion who are chosen to lead us all to hell.

  26. #26 by teluyalam on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 4:44 pm

    my thots on ethnic cleansing claim by Hindraf. there have been many spurious conversions of late, usually those who are less educated or in a deplorable condition or even in an incapacitated condition who seem to suffer this fate. for a poor family, say single mother with a number of children, if a welfare group comes acalling and says “hey u n ur kids convert, jus change ur name in ur IC we will give u RM300 monthly” u think she wont do it.. what more with free goodies for raya n haji not to mention further help thru all kinds of agencies and gov linked charities. whose money? our taxes my fren. many in this country may consider conversion jus to help themselves out of a tight situation. others do it for “love”. LOL he/she loves u or he/she loves the fact that u r becoming muslim? first n foremost, each religious body is not doing enough for these people n the hindus r foremost (which could also be due to a large number of them being too poor to help themselves). I beg rich hindus to set-up a body to channel wealth and help to their poorer kin. i beg them to do it systematically and to preach about this great religion which is all about tolerance and humility. make each temple a focal point for the spread of good teaching and aid to the poor of any race or religion because for hindus “every river leads to the same sea, every path to the same mountain”. Use your vote, those u don’t appreciate – kick out!

    University students need to unite and speak out for freedom to vote and to join or set-up societies or political parties. you guys have the brains.. i meant those who actually did well.. not some of those basket-cases that may not even have passed “O”level exams. come out of your shells. the gov is afraid of you which is why they have shut u down. do not be afraid. Dec 9 be there. this is not a hindu issue, or indian issue or a minority issue. this is about injustice. this is about an individual’s rights and this is about our self-respect.

    The Malay culture is beautiful in its hospitality and gentleness. but power, religion and arrogance have led this good people to destruction. Malaysia will have a very violent future if these policies continue because even the chinese are finding themselves struggling. licenses and contracts are being given to those who have no merit. any business that a malay cannot do is “haram” or becoming so.

  27. #27 by undergrad2 on Monday, 3 December 2007 - 7:25 pm

    “An urgent and independent inquiry must immediately be done to investigate how innocent devotees gathered within a place of worship were subjected to tear gas and chemical laced water cannon. The Hindu Sangam also calls on the Public Prosecutor to withdraw all charges against the devotees at the temple. Gathering at a temple for a religious ceremony cannot be deemed an illegal assembly under any circumstances.”

    An independent inquiry would help identify the causes. It would help rebut claims that the HINDRAF demonstrations, for example, were politically driven. It would help identify the anarchists be they plainclothes policemen or gangster elements out to exploit the situation for themselves. It would help confirm that innocent devotees were caught in the fray. Or if it was just an issue of law and order badly handled.

    But charging devotees (if one is to assume the characterization here as being accurate) is ridiculous.

  28. #28 by KS R on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 3:32 am

    Hi Uncle

    What Hindraf did is correct. First place why Permit was not issued for peaceful gathering.

    Youth M Hashmuddin told the youth to burn as much of Isreal Flag when Isreal and lebanon war

    Khairy When Rice was here he and the youth burn US Flag as youth they should not teach violance to the Youth.

    Where was this BN crooks

    No Permit, No tear Gas, No Chemical Gas,No canon, No baton

    Why Indians GATHERING all Gas was used and the Police treated brutal attack on Indians. Tell the ediots,and God is Great the world media was covering and VIDEO AND PHOTOGRAPH told the truth and spoke.

    Dato Sri Samy should inform the crooks to shut their mouth and feedback to them let PM AND DPM to handle.if he got guts.

    I was dispointed with some of the Indians was not supporting whereby the Lawyers gave the life in and out jail for the Indians and not forgeting the other hero’s was jail also fighting for 2.5 million Indians. Some of the Indians are ungrateful because they only speak under the skirt

    Time to wake up. PM should call for the meeting with the Lawyers. For them Indians is cheap,God is watching and they will pay heavy penalty for this.

  29. #29 by lakshy on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 5:56 am

    The next move by the Indians to show their disgust should be to quit MIC. Join Keadilan or DAP. Joining Keadilan in large numbers will make it a Malaysian party. Joining DAP will mean that DAP is no longer a mainly Chinese party.

    Lets show the way and move away from racebased politics. Lets show that we can do it.

    I guarantee you that this will bring MIC down on its knees where it belongs!

  30. #30 by ktteokt on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 7:53 am

    Lakshy is right! MIC no longer serve any purpose in bringing security and prosperity to the Malaysian Indian community, so why don’t all members “jump the fence” and join Keadilan or DAP to fight for their rights. I think they have seen enough what MIC can do for them!!

  31. #31 by fish_talk on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 1:11 pm

    Hindraf was a small insignificant body next to nothing. But to the oppressed and the deprived they have no better shelter than this. For 50 years, while their livelihood been eroded, their self proclaimed Guardians have been side stepping them, all too busy working for personal gains.

    That’s why Hindraf rise to the occasion. Providing an alternative channel for the people to air their grievances. Hindraf may have dragged on the colossal baggage of Religion and past British colonialism into the picture. But if not, how else are you able to drum up the support from the grassroot, and how else to attract such international attention. Good strategy and good planning.

    AAB and gang, be real and sincere about it. You are expressing your Anger now. Calling Indian ungrateful! Some idiot even calling for stripping off citizenships from the people. Furthermore, threats of ISA has been thrown around. While denying the wrongs Hindraf has accused you. You are actually committing yet more Human Rights violation. Please stop bullying the people who try to voice out their grievances. More importantly must know why it started in the first place.

    Salute to you Hindraf.
    And regrettable to say, there is no its equivalent of CHINRAF. For Chinaman are too Kia See.

  32. #32 by EARNEST on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 12:59 am

    fish_talk,
    One Chinese activist lost his citizenship championing the cause of Chinese education, perhaps too passionately to the Powers-that-be; the Chinese had even engaged a Queen Counsel with their own money to fight their cause perhaps before you were born, that is why you do not know about it. Ask your parents about it.

    The Chinese has great sense of tolerance. But, do not forget, the Chinese word for tolerance, “ren” has the word knife on top of it. Do not underestimate and push the Chinaman too far. I do not mean you, but whoever.

  33. #33 by cheeran70 on Friday, 7 December 2007 - 1:40 am

    Why the talk about the terms and word ‘Hindu’ when things are shifting towards another direction. UMNO is slowly fanning the issue into a racial agenda. The claims by HINDRAF are being thrown into the drain with rising fire of racism. Another attempt by the UMNO people to scare the nons. Its high time that the Malays understand that HINDRAF has no any ill intention against the Malay people. The Malays must understand (includingthose UMNO supporters) that they are still far lagging in their economic, education and social status compared to many who rub shoulders with the UMNO Majlis Tertinggi. HINDRAF had submitted numerous letters and memorandums to the government and its officials in various departments, and nobody responded to any of the claims by HINDRAF. The Malays are angry that HINDRAF did not consult the Yang Di Pertuan Agung on this matter, but they must understand too, that copies of letters have been sent to many prominent and relevant government official to intervene. None of them did anything to counter check HINDRAF’s claim, because UMNO has never respected any race, other than Malay(and that too not all Malays).

    Check this site, please : http://sharanyamanivannan.blogspot.com/2007/10/temple-demolitions-in-malaysia-hindrafs.html

    Whatever tolerance being preached is just an eyewash by UMNO led coalition. MIC, GERAKAN and MCA are nothing but shadows that exist only when UMNO on the switches. Apart of that they are mere puppets, dead puppets!!!. I dont support every motion by HINDRAF, but I feel there are things that government should begin to study, especially the Kampung Medan incident and police brutality in the lockups.

    I have nothing…

    I have nothing against mortars and bricks
    that made the temples, mosques and churches;
    I have nothing against man of all races and relgions
    that out of their beliefs each came out unique;
    I have nothing against politicians
    that made up stories of fancy fantasies and myths;
    I have nothing against Malays, Chinese, Indians or whatever
    that made up this beautiful country called Malaysia;
    but
    I am all out against every hypocrite of all races
    that tore the heart of unified mankind in Malaysia
    and sliced their thoughts unto fire called racism
    just to plunder the wealth and power
    though of temporal nature in this eternal play.

    author : cyclopseven

    for your eyes only :

    http://sharanyamanivannan.blogspot.com/2007/12/farish-noor-tale-of-two-templed.html

  34. #34 by ktteokt on Tuesday, 11 December 2007 - 5:31 pm

    First it was May 13 where the Malays clash with the Chinese, then the Sentosa incident where Malays clash with the Indians. Now tell me who is the trouble maker! Who is driving who up the wall?

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