Taiking, your imagination will turn true only when the culprit involved in causing death to Teoh Beng Hock has a load brother who works as the CEO of a government-linked Business Group of Commercial Banks and Merchant Banks!

“ICAC’s work is subject to a system of checks and balances.”

A system of checks and balances should be exactly a right target which the conscientious Malaysian people work hard to achieve, especially when the newly established MACC is tragically lack of a system of checks and balances!

I meant the Malaysian people must strive hard to accomplish the goal of establishing a system of checks and balances within the MACC as the individual problematic organization and also within the Federal Government as a whole!

As an accounting trained person, I believe Lim Guan Eng should know much better about how a system of checks and balances should work! Lim Guan Eng should have voiced out his opinion about such a very much sought after system for the Malaysian people!

Jeffrey,
I see that you have been spending a lot of time trying to teach us that “sometimes the ends do really justify the means!”

However, you fail to address the core issue which has been raised up by ICAC’s reply to Mr Chew (refer to comment #1 posted by walkman), that is, whether the power of MACC has been restrained by an effective system of checks and balances!

You may be able to justify your claim that “the ends do sometimes justify the means, especially in the event that the individual civil liberties and basic human rights have to give way to 3rd degree torture or violence when dealing with terrorism, for the sake of greater good of the overall society!” However, the core issue here is whether there is a fool-proof system in existence which can effectively put check to the abuse of MACC power by an officer with personal malicious intent and to balance off the danger of having the excessive force being used by MACC officers on a witness or a suspect in order to prevent the happening of extra-judicial killing in MACC!

Jeffrey, extra-judicial killing is prohibited by God. Teoh Beng Hock did not deserve a sudden death in the compound of MACC building. Let me bring you to do a revision on the biblical study on the story of the curse and mark of Cain so that you may always remember that God does not agree to punish even a murderer with death punishment!

The following is an excerpt from wikipedia:

The Bible refers to the curse of Cain in the fourth chapter of the Book of Genesis. This passage describes two brothers, Cain and Abel. Cain, the older, “was a tiller of the ground”, while Abel “was a keeper of sheep” (Gen. 4:2). Eventually, each of the brothers performed a sacrifice to God; Cain sacrificed some of his crops to God, while Abel sacrificed “of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof” (Gen. 4:3–4). When God accepted Abel’s offering, but not Cain’s, Cain’s “countenance fell” (Gen. 4:5), and he “rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him” (Gen. 4:8).

When God confronted Cain about Abel’s death, God cursed him, saying:

“What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.” (Gen. 4:10–12)

As an act of irony, the curse by God focused strictly on neutralizing the benefits of Cain’s primary skill, cultivating crops. When Cain complained that the curse was too strong, and that anyone who found him would kill him, God responded, “Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over”, and God “set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him” (Gen. 4:15).

“Since biblical times until now, I think we can surely agree that coitus interruptus has never been a greater or more henious offence than murder for the latter to be not punishable for death but the former (coitus interruptus) to be….What is your response to this?” (Jeffrey)

Jeffrey,
I am not a theologian. I may be biblically inaccurate to say that “God does not agree to punish even a murderer with death punishment!”

The Old Testament of the Bible has several passages that recommend the death penalty for different offenses. The term “put to death” or similar explicit terms which we found in the Old Testament are usually used in commands mandating capital punishment, though the term “cut off from his people” (Lev. 17:4, etc.) may also denote such, and which would increase the number of capital offenses.

However, we could also find that the Old Testament had set some conditions necessary for true conviction:

“At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.” (Deuteronomy 17:6; cf. Exodus 20:16)

In addition to the conditions of requiring two or three witnesses in order to qualify a conviction, the Old Testament had also set some requirements for Judges:

Lev 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

In short, even if the MACC officers were to possess good evidences to make believe that a suspect had already committed a capital offense, the MACC officers had no right to drop judgement nor have they any rights to execute any form of lagal sentence (including 3rd degree torture) or death punishment unto a suspect! The MACC officers can only serve best in the role of an investigator. The MACC officers can never enjoy the full authority to appoint themselves as a player of these three roles at the meantime, namely an investigator, a prosecutor, and a judge. Obviously, to embrace or to entice someone into playing the triple roles of investigator, prosecutor and judge in the process of interrogating an alleged crimminal will surely violated the cardinal principle of requiring a duty performer to avoid any conflict of interest when performing one’s official duty.

The story of the curse and the mark made by God on the biblically recorded first murderer, Cain, was an indication that God was the initiator of a system of checks and balances. When God made such a promise of not killing Cain by saying “Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over”, God Hinself indeed had made a Law to provide deterrence on the common man in order to protect Cain from being killed by the common man. Such a law was indeed an example of a system of checks and balances which, of course, has instituted that God be sat in the high position to serve as the arbiter!

Of course, I always think that an MACC officer is nothing more than a common man who is not given any legal rights to execute extra-judicial killing on a witness or a suspect!

“But we know interrogation ended at 3.30am – and he died much later after 6 am. Why didn’t he leave immediately after interrogation ended? Surely he had no reason to linger longer – unless there’s some unfinished business. What would that be? Would it suggest that he was cooperating in some measure with MACC.” (Jeffrey)

Jeffrey,
You only listened to one side’s story so far and you began to make so much lope-sided speculation. Based on my personal experience from a police detention and interrogation, I could also make the following speculation in order to explain off the questions being raised in your speculation.

Assume that the interrogation really ended at 3.30am. However, even after the end of interrogation process at 3.30am, TBH could not leave MACC Building because he might be told, “We have already done with your interrogation but you need to put some words in a cautioned statement in front of the investigating officer (IO) in charge. But the IO will be in only after 8.00am. You can take back your personal belongings only after 8.00 am after the IO officer agrees to release you and make you sign a paper that is an acknowlegement of receipt. I have to go back and sleep now. If you want to sleep, you may sleep in the pantry area but don’t block the walkway!”

At 7.30 am, an early bird MACC officer came in and saw TBH lying at the sofa of the pantry. Unfortunately, this MACC officer is a racist, a Chinese hater, a hardcore follower of the occultic belief of the idol worship of “Ketuanan Melayu” idolatry! He shouted at TBH, “Hey, hey, apa dua pikim dekat sini! Ini pejabat Orang Melayu, engkau tau tak? Mana boleh engkau tidur di atas sofa yang hanya Orang Melayu saja yang boleh tidur? Gua mau duduk! Bangun! Bangun! Cepat bangun! Nanti gua hentam lu, lu baru tau!”

TBH, “Mau hentam, hentam la! Lu pikir sofa ini awak punya bapa punya ka?”

MACC racist, “Kurang ajar! Kenapa tak panggil gua ‘tuan’ bila mau cakap! Keluar! Cepat Keluar!”

TBH, “Tuan apa la, saya barulah ‘tuan’! Saya tuan yang bekerja dengan Kerajaan Negeri, awak tau tak?”

MACC racist, “Anjing Pakatan Rakyat! pergi mati la!”

“Ahhhh…………..Poommmmmmmmmm….. ”

Let me make it clear here. The above speculation is simply my speculation! It could be right, but it could also be wrong! However, this could be another side of the story! Do you get it now, Jeffrey!