The Star front-page headline today “Off to Taiwan – 50 Barisan MPs begin eight-day study trip” is the latest update of the political farce which could be appropriately entitled “The Birds Have Flown” to tell the story as to how 51 years after Merdeka, two-thirds of the 75 BN parliamentary backbenchers were forced to flee from Malaysia to ensure that they don’t take part any “916” political changes.
Despite maintaining a public stanc of stoic indifference, there is no doubt that with the daily countdown to September 16, there is an increasing panic in Umno and Barisan Nasional leadership ranks over the degree of cohesion, solidarity and allegiance of the 75 Barisan Nasional parliamentary backbenchers, resulting in the farcical “forced flight” overseas by two-thirds of the BN MPs to make it absolutely sure that none of them will participate in any “916” developments.
The Barisan Nasional Backbenchers Club (BBC) chairman Datuk Seri Tiong King Sing (Bintulu) may pride himself for coming up with a “political masterstroke” to thwart “916”, but he did not realize that he has made the Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi, Deputy Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Najib Razak and the entire Umno and BN leadership look even more foolish in the eyes of Malaysians and the world!
Tiong should be sacked as BBC Chairman instead of being praised and rewarded for hatching such a stupid idea, as it will go into the Malaysian political folklores of Abdullah being exposed as a latter-day “Emperor’s New Clothes”.
What makes Tiong and the leaders of Umno and BN think that physically shipping two-thirds of the 75 parliamentary backbenchers overseas and sequestering from any contact with Pakatan Rakyat until after “916” (may be every BN MP will be subject to 24-hr surveilliance in their Taiwan study trip with all the handphones confiscated or all forms of communications monitored and censored), the loyalty and allegiance of all the BN MPs are forever secured?
If there are BN MPs who are minded to leave BN as it is a “sinking Titanic”, nothing can stop them from proceeding with their fateful decisions any time after their return to Malaysia after September 16.
The panic of BN leaders with the approach of “916” is also evident from the increasingly intemperate and irrational statements emanating from their ranks.
New Sunday Times yesterday carried one such statement by the Parti Bersatu Sabah (PBS) deputy president and Minister for Science, Technology and Innovation, Datuk Dr. Maximus Ongkili.
The New Sunday Times quoted Ongkili as condemning as “evil” the plan to overthrow the BN government by alleged “undemocratic means”.
He said “enticing elected BN representatives to cross over so that Pakatan Rakyat could seize power was shameful, unethical and dangerous because it would create political chaos and economic strife”.
He said the people should “reject the dirty politics propagated by the opposition, and erase the notion that elected politicians in Malaysia could be bought and sold for a pot of political porridge”.
He also posed the following questions:
“Why is Pakatan so insistent in promoting the formation of a government of unprincipled politicians?
“Do we want this country to be governed by frog legislators who will surely mortgage the rights of the people?”
I have always known Ongkili as a level-headed politician but it is reflection of the extreme pressures he and other leaders, whether PBS, Umno or BN, have been subject to by the “916” dateline, to make him to use intemperate language when Ongkili should have known that the language of abuse like “evil”, “dirty politics”, “elected politicians…bought and sold for a pot of political porridge”, “unprincipled politicians”, “frog legislators who …mortgage the rights of the people” could be so easily used back against him as he had led PBS from the Opposition into the Barisan Nasional in highly controversial circumstances.
I fully agree that Malaysian politics must be kept clean, ethical and principled and there must be no room for elected representatives to be “frog legislators” to defect for monetary gain or other material inducements – or to use Ongkili’s words “a pot of political porridge”.
This is why DAP and I had maintained since the 70s that elected representative should resign if they want to defect, return the mandate to the voters to seek their approval in a by-election on a question of principle – which will banish the disgraceful political spectacle of money politics where MPs and state legislators could be bought and sold in the market place and end unprincipled, unethical and dishonourable politics.
This honourable option for an MP to resign and cause a by-election to seek a new mandate from the electorate to endorse his resignation or defection was closed in 1990 when the Constitution was amended to bar any MP who resigns from his seat from standing for election for five years.
After the two political tsunamis of March 8 general election and the Permatang Pauh by-election on August 26, there is a deepening crisis of confidence in the authority and legitimacy of the Prime Minister, the Cabinet and the Barisan Nasional government who seem to be completely lost as to how to resolve the multiple crisis of confidence afflicting the country, whether political, economic, institutional, good governance or even nation-building.
As a result, more and more Malaysians have come around to the view that in the national interest to safeguard the well-being of the nation and people, particularly to enhance our international competitiveness to assure the future prosperity of all Malaysians, a change of government is not only timely but has become an imperative national agenda.
I believe that this is also the view of more and more BN MPs.
I will have no truck with BN MPs who want to join forces with Pakatan Rakyat because this is an opportunity for them to make money or get other material gain, i.e. for “a pot of political porridge”, for this is clearly unethical, unprincipled and dishonourable which must be deplored by all right-thinking Malaysians.
However, if BN MPs are motivated by noble principles of saving the country from further drift and loss of direction of the Barisan Nasional government and for the political, economic and national betterment of the people, their honourable and principled action to leave the sinking BN Titanic will surely gain the sympathy, support and respect of all Malaysians.
#1 by homeblogger on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 10:10 am
Reminds me of when we were in school. If there was something we wanted to avoid – spot check, hair check, punishment for forgetting to pass up homework or some silly meeting, we would go on “annual leave” or MC that day.
Seems like BN is using the same tactic, but this is even better – holiday paid for by the blood, sweat and money of pendatang asing.
#2 by ktteokt on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 10:12 am
You think BN MPs are so dumb as not to see that BN is a “sinking ship” by now? All right-thinking BN MPs should prepare to jump ship and save themselves and not go down with the sinking vessel! They must of course be prepared to forego their levish and luxurious styles under the Pakatan government!
#3 by yyh on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 10:32 am
Dear Kit Siang
as an aside, I plead for all supporters of PR to sign the petition for an independent judicairy, free from the shackles of the government of the day. Please visit http://www.harismibrahim.com and sign the petition.
RPK has cajoed and pleaded for at least 50,000 signatures. Todate, lamentably only 23,000 has signed up.
This petition is of utmost importance, especially in the light that this government is resorting to more draconian measures to maintain its power. Just as they did it to the Hindraf 5, now they are threatening RPK, the icon who stands for a free and fair Malaysia, with ISA and he has personally feel that this threat is very real. What is there to stand against this tide of suppression and repression except a fair and free Judiciary.
Please, Kit Siang, extend your suport for this petition.
#4 by PHUAKL on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 10:34 am
Dear YB Lim
1. This phrase “the inmates are running the asylum” suddenly
popped up in my head.
2. I wonder if this scenario will ever occur — crossovers lead to
a new govt. The snap election that is carried out soon after
results in a landslide.
Phua Kai Lit
#5 by blablowbla on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 10:35 am
yes,taiwan is the best place for thm to see how the ex-president chen sui-pian is going to be charged for corruption!
Ask your Sleeping-Head and corrupt to the core party get prepare to be sentenced behind bars,those racists,all together,for the sake of the country!
#6 by k1980 on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 10:36 am
The study trip is for the MPs to observe how Taiwanese MPs sttle their differences with their fists in Parliament, so that they could follow suit in Malaysia
#7 by Malaysian Always on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 10:39 am
So, is 16/9 still going to happen, YB Lim? We need some sort of assurance something is going to happen, or not going to happen.
#8 by Malaysian Always on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 10:45 am
yyh: I can’t access http://www.harismibrahim.com, it says “Problem Loading Page”.
#9 by Compass on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 10:46 am
My assumption for this trip is could be either a brainwashing trip or an opening a new account trip.
So what is the prevailing S eleven rate for loyalty or what is the prevailing rate of pain for loyalty?
#10 by clearwater on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 10:47 am
Is this Tiong King Sing of the RM4+ billion Port Klang FTZ fame? The man behind Wijaya Baru Bhd, rich through FTZ scam, who hides behind nominees in his corporate dealings? A BN robber baron who can afford to pay for the trip from the spoils of the people’s sweat and toil. Ethics? There is none. Noble principles? What is more noble than money.
#11 by monsterball on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 10:51 am
hahahahahaha….All borak UMNO leaders said…cross over impossible…a bluff…this and that.
Now….taking more than 50….on instant agriculture studies…..hahahahaha
Originally plan to go China.
China government must have told them off…”Don’t bring your shit politics..to my country”……now..changed to Taiwan.
Just look at those clowns…so afraid…yet talk big.
Best is Dollah said with his head down…feeling shameful….”I have nothing to do with this trip”
Najib is a real low class politician. Only know..how to dress up.. stylishly….and this is our future PM???
God help Malaysia!!!
#12 by pulau_sibu on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 10:57 am
Is this going to be the biggest number of MPs sent to exile in the history of any country?
Do we have a list of MPs sent to exile? better if there will be a group photo. I wonder why Abdullah and Najiv did not go to the airport to say ‘bye’ to these MPs…
Tiong made some wave not too long ago by bringing up the issue of Sibu gangsters (note: he is MP for Bintulu, not Sibu). He and the police chief of Sarawak are in bad blood.
#13 by limkamput on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:07 am
Sdr Kit,
How does one differentiate the cross over as one governed by greed or noble principles? The fact that BN MPs are constantly oscillating and being monitored 24 hours a day only goes to show that they are unprincipled and governed by self interest. Otherwise what is so difficult to openly declare that they are joining PR for the betterment of Malaysia?
Elected MPs being forced to travel overseas? Give me a break.
I think both BN and PR did not treat elected MPs like chattels. They behave like one themselves. They have no notion to do the right thing. They know not what is national and public interest. They are unprincipled, selfish, and greedy scam bags.
#14 by k1980 on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:12 am
The Taiwanese should arrest these 50 nuts as illegal immigrants and sentence them to 5 years hard labour
#15 by boh-liao on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:19 am
Taiwan, O Taiwan! How come suddenly Taiwan appears on the radar of BN?
Our BN MPs are there to learn from the former president Ah Pian and his wife how to set up accounts in Swiss banks and how to channel funds swindled from the country into the accounts. Also to learn from Ah Pian and his wife how to lie with straight faces that the ill-gotten money came from their hard work – the show is ongoing, just in time for our BN MPs to see and learn (wayang sikit).
This is perhaps the first time in our history that we see a mass exodus of BN MPs with tails in between their butts. First to cabut from a sinking ship!
Ahhhh, Tiong King Sing who came up with this “political masterstroke” to thwart “916” – did he not forget to make some RM from this study trip?
While there, woes will follow those BN MPs who forgot the golden words of MCA CSL: “I am the man in the sex tape. The girl is a personal friend.”
Perhaps very soon we will see special VCDs of our BN MPs in action during their study tour in Taiwan.
#16 by dawsheng on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:22 am
“However, if BN MPs are motivated by noble principles of saving the country from further drift and loss of direction of the Barisan Nasional government and for the political, economic and national betterment of the people, their honourable and principled action to leave the sinking BN Titanic will surely gain the sympathy, support and respect of all Malaysians.”
I believe this statement is an endorsement for the crossover from Uncle Kit, and I definitely in agreement with him.
#17 by dawsheng on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:31 am
I wonder if Koh Tsu Kun still wonders if Gerakan has a meaningful role in BN with statement like this.
“If Sept 16 does occur, it will not be a surprise if Barisan supporters go to the streets to challenge the legitimacy of a government formed through undemocratic means. And all this is because Anwar wants to be Prime Minister.” – Umno Youth secretary Datuk Abdul Rahman Dahlan
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/9/8/nation/22264580&sec=nation
#18 by yyh on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:31 am
malaysian always,
alternatively go to RPK’s blog and look for “lets get the signature
#19 by Fisher on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:32 am
Desperate times require desperate measures. Desperadoes engage in desperate moves. The convoluted logic is that in the event 916 comes and pass without any change in the status quo, the incumbents will trumpet victory and shout down DSAI as having lost credibility. And the one that will shout loudest is we-know-who, for he is biding his time, licking his wounds and getting ready to recover some face after failing to bury his opponent but fell into the hole in the process.
It may be a hollow victory but to the hollow ones, it is a victory nonetheless and regardless of the change in status quo thereafter, they are able to parade in their new clothes.
Go figure!
#20 by yyh on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:35 am
malaysian always
sorry. alternatively go to RPK’s blog and look for the article “lets get more signatures, do it now”. do alert your friends too. many thanks for your support.
clearwater,
yup, this is the same guy who is behind the biggest white elephant in malaysia, ie “port klang free trade zone”. a RM4.7 bilion rip-off with UMNO and MCA personalities as the joint venture partners.
#21 by m.rakyat on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:38 am
Should this “916” cannot be met, strongly think that it is better to put a stop to it until the next GE. All the focus have been shifted to this “916” instead of managing the country and economy. Work need to be done and the country need to move forward. Harping and focuing on this “916” is harmful to the country as a whole. The country needs direction.
#22 by tsn on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:39 am
Huh! 51 frog legislators, defectors & traitors to be, please enjoy yourselves to the fullest on taxpayers’ sweat $.
#23 by ctc537 on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:43 am
YB LKS,
Yes, the BN leadership don’t mind look foolish in the eyes of Malaysians and the world so long as “916” is thwarted. But for how long this state of affairs can go on?
#24 by oknyua on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:44 am
“However, if BN MPs are motivated by noble principles of saving the country from further drift and loss of direction of the Barisan Nasional government and for the political, economic and national betterment of the people, their honourable and principled action to leave the sinking BN Titanic will surely gain the sympathy, support and respect of all Malaysians.” YB Lim KS.
I am troubled with the word “noble principles.” Do they have principles? If they have, they would have ages questioned the blatant disregards for Malaysian multiracial and ethnic fabrics. Each may subscribes to BN ideas, but as a person they must uphold their own principles; would they stand like a wood when others called them pendatang, salvage etc? If going on this stupid study trip is part of BN agenda, then I feel pity for them for continuing to agree to UMNO’s bully and indecent tactics in BN politics. “Noble principles” is not their virtue.
#25 by bentoh on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:47 am
If that’s what DAP upholding…
Will DAP call for a snap poll once the more than 30 MPs jump ship?
Stop “legalising” or “democratizing” the frogging activity please…
I agreed wholeheartedly that an MP should resign once changing party or quit his/her own party…
Even if the constitution doesn’t allow such things to happen… once the MPs jumped ship… the majority in the parliament should then be allowed to vote for no confidence vote in the parliament, and hence dissolve the parliament that lead by a minority government…
The voters will then decide whether or not they approve the froggings in a whole new round of Parliamentary election…
The MPs should not be the one who decide for us, whether we want such froggings to happen… and the political parties should not justify the act of jumping ship for us, and give us all sort of excuses to make the idea of a new froggy government like one of the greatest things on earth…
This piece of excuses-filled blog entry shows us the DAP is also suffering from the “foot-in-mouth” disease… driven by power-hunger…
I’m rather upset with the flip-flopping of DAP… as if we don’t see it enough with the Prime Minister…
I challenge the DAP and hence the Pakatan Rakyat to call for a new round of poll when enough number of MPs choose to be with PR… and I’m sure I’ll take several hours of bus ride to go back for that poll…
#26 by boh-liao on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:50 am
Ahmad Ismail and 13 Penang Umno divisions that backed Ahmad’s stance of no apology for his offensive, insensitive and racist reference to the Chinese as “orang tumpang” declared openly: Ahmad Ismail will not say sorry.
Why, why, why? We may ask. Why Ahmad Ismail will not say sorry?
Answer: Because Ahmad Ismail loves all Malaysians deeply.
“Love means never having to say you’re sorry!” (Love Story)
#27 by Damocles on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:56 am
“All the focus have been shifted to this “916? instead of managing the country and economy. Work need to be done and the country need to move forward.” – m.rakyat
You think that the BN government is capable of managing the country and the economy?
If they are good at that, our country will not be in such a mess.
They have been at it for more than half a century and what have they got to show for it?
#28 by Freddy on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:01 pm
Breaking News: Kota Kinabalu Election Court declares P182 vacant. Pensiangan parliamentary seat is currently held by BN’s Joseph Kurup who won uncontested.
#29 by pkrisnin on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:08 pm
PBS is one to talk, did they mention how BN took over Sabah from them using even worst method, even when PBS won the election.
Bentoh I fully agree but first PR must clean up the courts, police and ACA. They need to plug all the hole in the system. Then the EC needs to be for neutral, no party affiliations. Preferably with UN observers. No MP families can run GLC companies or get gov. contract with the approval of Parliament.
All this need to enshrine in the constitution requiring 99% MP votes required to change it.
#30 by pulau_sibu on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:10 pm
8 days is quite a long time to spend in a small place like Taiwan.
We hope to have news from the paparazzi about these MPs sent on exile.
Some one mentioned about the swiss accounts in the comments. do you think our MPs and ministers are less smart than politicians in other countries? Did you read about Taib, the paper company in HK, and the Japanese shipping companies?
#31 by pkrisnin on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:10 pm
Bentoh don’t be so naive to think a re-election will be fair under the current rules will be fair.
#32 by aiD_kamikuP on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:11 pm
What planned study trip would have to depend on whatever visa that comes available first?
What study trip would need 50 MPs in attendance?
What study trip would require all 50 to study on one aspect?
But what a precedence this escapade would set? What kind of future is in store for Malaysians when politically bankrupt BN resorts to playing ‘hide-and-seek’ each time it faces problems it has limited vision and ability to solve?
#33 by ch on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:14 pm
Dear All,
How can one stop the rain from falling? If at all, there are BN’s MPs who wanted to switch allegiance, whatever the government is trying to do is at best, prolonging the inevitable. But then again, the inevitable will eventually happen. It appears that the government is rather panicky as demonstrated by this sudden “study trip” despite refuting such claim.
#34 by zak_hammaad on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:14 pm
yyh Says:
>> Just as they did it to the Hindraf 5, now they are threatening RPK, the icon who stands for a free and fair Malaysia, with ISA…
S’pore would not be voicing their concerns and actions in the media, they would have long picked up mischief-mongers like RPK under ISA and thrown away the key for a long time! Under the guise of “free and fair anything”, individuals are willing to disparage, distort and lie to gain the infamy they have now become accustomed to. I believe M’sia has been too slow to act against social threats like him and others.
#35 by tsn on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:18 pm
How are we going to get out from present political malady? Can a fair snap general election clears the muddy water? This is still the best bet. No doubt the financial cost is immense but is painfully bearable. Real challenge is to have a fair and just general election under such chaotic mood.
If right formula is not found, once reasonably peaceful and prosperous country is in the brink of persecution, destitution and prostitution.
#36 by kanokporn on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:21 pm
so 916 does not happen on 916. what is the problem? we malaysians have waited for so long already. at least we have the hope given to us by pr that it WILL happen. it is just a matter of time. every move by the govt is causing it to lose more and more votes and confidence in the got and the leadership
#37 by k1980 on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:22 pm
With 50 Bn MPs out in Taiwan, now is an extremely excellent time for the SAPP to table a motion of no confidence in the mullah’s administration.
#38 by Capt George on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:24 pm
Apparently, its an embargo trip, inside-out, self-exile exercise.
Helter-skelter, running wild among these groups.
It may be part of a larger scheme in the making.
PKR need to be extra-vigilant.
Reminds me of Bilderberg group except in smaller context.
Its about controlling the public. This Government machinery
has been functioning and serving them well all these years
with the means to purvey ISA as Insurance to house any
opposition. You do not find any ISA detainees from the Government party because they generally agree everything
the Governemnt says a ‘Yes’ public.
#39 by aiD_kamikuP on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:26 pm
parliament is not in session, lah.
#40 by kanokporn on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:31 pm
taiwan is a very nice place. a nice place indeed for sex, booze and entertainment and a lot of restaurants that sell pork.. are our backbencher mps accompanied by their wives or have quest relations officers (GROs PROs and prostitutes) been all arranged for them. and since they are going to be away for a few days they will be eligible to buy duty free alcohol too.
#41 by Jeffrey on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:36 pm
dawsheng is right in his posting at 11:22.08 that this is first time YB Kit has publicly endorsed the crossover. He is able to counter allegations of crossovers being undemocratic on these grounds : (i) overarching imperative of national interest (ii) defecting MPs having lost option to resign and contest by-election by reason of 1990 constitutional amendment imposing a waiting period of 5 years; (iii) criteria for acceptance of defecting MPs guided by principles than lure money making opportunities and positions.
So is Anwar bluffing about September 16th ? I don’t know.
However considering that he will disappoint many people if it were just hot air, perhaps he deserves the benefit of the doubt that he, being a seasoned politician, is unlikely to commit political suicide by his own volition.
Defections cannot be merely thwarted by physical absence in KL by flying 50 MPs over the cuckoo’s nest! As I said before, it is getting the proper documentation done up before they flew.
I think Anwar is however likely hyping the other part about forming immediately the government with 30-40 defections.
One cannot form a stable government with 30-40 BN crossovers, and a bare majority. (Some from PR can cross back). There must exist a significant enough buffer between total PR MPs and a simple majority over 222 MPs in Parliment.
What 30 or 40 defections could however do is to (1) show that BN has lost majority and therefore cannot govern because every bill to be passed in Parliament including the all important money supply bill could be defeated! (2) persuade the PM or the Yang di Pertuan Agong to dissolve Parliament for the 13th Malaysian General Election, which in normal circumstances, without such number of defections, it won’t happen….
The calculation is that the 13th would, in the momentum of events, complete what the 12th General Election has failed to do : dislodge the ruling coalition by democratic ballot box.
#42 by boh-liao on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:40 pm
Bye-bye black birds!
Got good halal food in Taiwan ah?
#43 by boh-liao on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:42 pm
Is Joseph Kurup, now declared no more an MP, one of the birds in Taiwan?
#44 by zak_hammaad on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:46 pm
kanokporn Says:
>> at least we have the hope given to us by pr that it WILL happen.
What hope has Pakatan given you? Besides mere slogans and hollow words, tell me what policies they will be implementing and how? It is virtually impossible for any incoming government to ignoring the geo-social demography of Malaysia!
Also remember alsole that BN may have a simple parliamentary majority for now, but they are less than half the seats needed by Pakatan to get a 2/3 majority. It is anyone’s guess where dirty politics will get them both.
#45 by RKP on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:50 pm
Well said YB Lim. I don’t see their logic too.
The way they react to each situation puzzles me and most Malaysians, I suppose. Is this another way of saving themselves?
If it is, it sure is a costly one. Where do they get that much from to be able to spend one lump sum of money at one go?
Even at department level,don’t we encourage employees to take their turns to go for training,the most two to three at a time because of cost and time factors?
Is this training that ‘urgent’ at this point of time, when our economy isn’t doing that well?
#46 by Mr Smith on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 12:51 pm
BN MPs are being treated no better than school kids during a detention class.
Kit,
As for PBS, you failed to also mention that this party crossed over from BN to Opposition and then back again into BN.
Ongkili is describing himself and his party.
#47 by ktteokt on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 1:01 pm
Taiwan serves juicy and delicious “suckling pigs”! Happy Dining!
#48 by pulau_sibu on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 1:02 pm
A few mentioned about lack of majority if Anwar forms government on 16th Sept. If it is indeed less than 2/3 majority, Anwar can suggest Agung to dissolve the parliament and have an election. Let’s pass the ticket to the people to decide
#49 by zak_hammaad on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 1:04 pm
Sept 16 And The Morality Of Party-hopping
[From mysinchew]
Anwar Ibrahim has been bragging that come Sept 16, thirty lawmakers from the ruling Barisan Nasional coalition will cross over to the new opposition Pakatan Rakyat coalition, giving just enough numbers to make him the new prime minister of Malaysia. The incumbent party in power will then exchange place to become His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. Some have since questioned the morality of this uneasy scheme of things.
A few ethical issues have been raised. First of all, it’s a betrayal of the voters who elected them in the first place since they elected the lawmakers based on BN platform. Another is that it involves corruption since the party-hopping is also seen as a buy-over, with massive amounts of money changing hands. The third contentious issue is that it is an all out power grab by toppling the government in power, hence it highly unconstitutional.
Semantics is important. The words bandied about in the media are betrayal, corruption, unconstitutional and unethical. But they can be meaningless in our Malaysian context. Not that they are unimportant.
Musa Hitam, the former deputy prime minister and Umno kingpin, has the uncanny ability to simplify things profoundly political. To him the object of politics is to be in power. Period. He who grabs the most numbers, fastest, wins.
Indeed he, together with Tengku Razaleigh Hamzah, made an unsuccesful power grab in 1987 that nearly saw the defeat of Dr Mahathir Mohamad as party chief and prime minster. Ironically, it was Anwar who was the beneficiary of this infighting in Umno as Mahathir made him the new DPM in place of Musa.
The infighting continued nonetheless and it was Anwar’s turn to lose power when Mahathir sacked him in favour of Abdullah Ahmad Badawi. To cut the story short, Mahathir was forced out in the ensuing fracas and Abdullah became the new PM supposedly duly annointed by Dr M himself. But now Mahathir wants him removed as Abdullah is now found wanting in the former prime minister’s considered opinion. Not a few concur with that.
So there are now two PMs-in-waiting, Najib Razak the current DPM and Anwar, the former DPM and now Mr Opposition since his phenomenal victory at the recent Permatang Pauh by-election that brough him back to parliament after a forced hiatus of ten years. The moral of the story is… Wait a minute, what morality are we talking about? Bah!
Let’s go back in history a little. When we became an independent nation 51 years ago, it was so blissful to the extent that the Tunku, our first PM and Bapa Malaysia, used to boast that he was the happiest PM in the world. But that was until 1969. In the aftermath of the bloodbath, it was Dr Mahathir who set the power grab in train by demanding the Tunku hand over power. Ironically, it was also Anwar, who was then leader of the Malay Language Society at University of Malaya, who chorussed Mahathir’s line among Malay students. There was a place coup subsequently, and Razak Hussein, Tunku’s deputy took over the reins of power.
It was in 1969 that the ruling coalition lost popular vote in the general elections although it succeeded in holding onto the crucial two-third majority in parliament by a whisker by retaining 95 seats out of the 144.
But it lost Penang state government to the new Chinese-based Gerakan while in Perak and Selangor, it was a hung assembly. The solution was to invite (read crossover or buy-over) one or two of the opposition members to enable it to form the two state governments. In due course, the Gerakan was also “invited” to join the enlarged coalition. PMIP or what is known as PAS, the Muslim party, which was making increasing inroads into the Malay heartland, was similarly extended an “invitation.” PPP, the popular opposition party in Perak founded by the Seenivasagam brothers also accepted the “invitation” to join BN after their founders’ demise.
In Sabah and Sarawak, the situation is more muddied. For instance, PBS under Joseph Pairin Kitigan, crossed over to team up with Tengku Rzaleigh’s Semangat 45 to unseat the ruling coalition in 1990. Both were mauled and later PBS as well as S45 made another crossover and re-joined BN.
Of the 14 component parties in BN, nine are from East Malaysia – PBBB, SUPP, SAPP,PBS,LDP,PBRS, UPKO, SPDP and SPR. Now make a guess which one has not crossed over yet. Anwar is spoilt for choice and undoutedly having a pick of the alphabet soup there to make up his numbers for Sept 16.
So what’s the big deal about party-hopping or crossovers, or power grab and the morality of it all?
#50 by justice4allraces on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 1:07 pm
pulau_sibu Says:
Today at 13: 02.03 (4 minutes ago)
A few mentioned about lack of majority if Anwar forms government on 16th Sept. If it is indeed less than 2/3 majority, Anwar can suggest Agung to dissolve the parliament and have an election. Let’s pass the ticket to the people to decide
Bring on the change our people truly want and need for so long!
#51 by thguan on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 1:10 pm
We used to hear rakyat is the boss, MP was selected by rakyat.
If there is the case, can we demand the respective MP to submit their so called “business trip”, we shall see how the trip bring benefit to them & the rakyat.
#52 by kerajaan.rakyat on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 1:19 pm
Dear YB Lim,
YB, Gua mau kasi tau sama YB, ini Abudula manyak cilaka punya
olang. Lia ala ciakap itu anuar tatak olang mau, lagi lia ciakap dia
tatak takut sama anuar.
Tapi sikalang itu Abudula lia sama lia punya olang mau lali pigi itu
Taik wan.
Wa ati manyak ada ilan. manyak pilik.
http://www.kerajaanrakyat.com/
#53 by izrafeil on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 1:19 pm
Uncle Lim,
Yesterday the 7th day of puasa, i walk to bazaar ramadah for the first time carrying RM20/- (last puasa i frequented more times), this puasa is special because at RM20/- stretching your Ringgit makes my elbow hurts….. it pains me when our YB YB YBs… have a smacking good time on our taxpayers money….
The other day, my wifey tried to tahan a taksi, after boarding,,, the taxi driver shouted at her to “GET OUT”….
Question:
When was the last time our Transport Minister in charge of Taxi actually took a taxi ride? Its HORRENDOUS to get a taxi, pretty well bad, i wish there is a BLUEBIRD here….
#54 by dawsheng on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 1:31 pm
With some of its most respectable members already left the party to join PKR and DAP, we can consider Gerakan as out of BN. For MCA, they need UMNO more than UMNO needs them, unless, MCA becomes a NGO, which is not a bad idea if they specifically wants to help the Chinese in Malaysia, then they may leave BN. MCA and Gerakan should merge in order to survive the next general election.
#55 by izrafeil on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 1:34 pm
sorry to hijcak the topic, but of national interest too is the issue on worsening taxi services for the following;
a) refusal to take passengers
b) refusal to use meters
c) being outright ill mannered
d) often smelly and dirty taxis
e) driving recklessly
why are we paying as much as Singapore taxi (if meter not used), but bad and worsening service?
LRT also cannot lah di harap… last night services between 7pm-8pm terbatuk2
#56 by Freddy on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 1:36 pm
Consensus, I doubt anybody believe that election in Malaysia is truly fair and transparent.
There are many who believe that it could be up to 10% of the votes being rigged. Hence, through whatever means that BN had been doing to obtain votes fraudulenly, including votes buying, and taking into account of the possible 10% votes obtained illegally and fraudulently, isn’t it possible that Pakatan Rakyat should be the government of the day after March 8?
Then let’s talk about Project IC in Sabah. Some calls it Project Mahathir. What percentage of votes BN obtained fraudulently?
Hence, if one questions morality, then the simple answer is that IT IS MORALLY CORRECT for Anwar Ibrahim and Pakatan Rakyat to lay claim to whatever that belongs to the people.
That is my opinion. BN had lost on March 8 IF the general election was void of frauds.
However, let’s hear what the others opined:
1. B K Ong feels that since parliamentarians are elected by the people, it would only be fair that party hoppers in particular should go back to voters for a new mandate.
2. USM senior lecturer P Sivamurugan feels that it is unethical and undemocratic for Anwar to take over without the people’s mandate.
3. Hindu Action Network coordinator G Mugunthan claims that most people want Pakatan to assume power ‘by hook or crook’ because they desire change. He further argues that the cleanliness of the electoral process is viewed with suspicion and the widespread allegations that the national polls are marred by fraud itself demands a change of government.
Morality? If the election is clean and transparent, then it is morally wrong for Anwar Ibrahim and Pakatan Rakyat to snatch power. But since we know that election is anything by a fraud in Malaysia, it is morally correct for Anwar Ibrahim and Pakatan Rakyat to wrest back from BN what is rightfully ours.
I, as a registered voter as well as a anak Bangsa Malaysia, demand that what’s rightfully mine be returned!
#57 by dawsheng on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 1:37 pm
My guess is, contrary to popular beliefs, MPs from the northern states of Terengganu, Kedah and Perlis are the most likely to hop over to Pakatan Rakyat.
#58 by Damocles on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 1:38 pm
“So is Anwar bluffing about September 16th ? I don’t know.
However considering that he will disappoint many people if it were just hot air, perhaps he deserves the benefit of the doubt that he, being a seasoned politician, is unlikely to commit political suicide by his own volition.” – Jeffrey
I think that it doesn’t really matter whether 916 will come to pass.
What is important is that PR has given us a “silver lining” in an otherwise gloomy world dominated by UMNO!
At least, we have hope – something which we never had for the past fifty-one years.
Another very important factor is that Anwar has also enlightened the ordinary Malays that they have a far better deal with the PR than the BN. This is the crux of the Anwar magic!
#59 by highhand on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 1:38 pm
paid rm 3 million for 9 cows
how much to pay for the trip?
#60 by taiking on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 1:47 pm
Zak said:
“Under the guise of “free and fair anything”, individuals are willing to disparage, distort and lie to gain the infamy they have now become accustomed to. I believe M’sia has been too slow to act against social threats like him and others.”
Hummm. What about Bush Jr. and his WMD-in-Iraq story and his Osama, the terrorist-in-Afghanistan-who-must-be-killed vendetta – neither of which is true or traceable.
We malaysians are pre-schoolers by comparison. Westerners are better at this game. And they can do it with a smiling face and in the name of peace, UN and humanity.
At least here in malaysia a statement like the umno government is corrupt and has wasted a lot of tax-payers’ money carries a lot of truth and can be verified with publicly known examples.
Look at najib. If he were a minister in Gordon Brown’s cabinet, he would have resigned a long time ago. And what is better is that he would have done so on his own volition. He need not be told to leave. The system there simply has no room for public officers who are engulfed in controversies.
In a place with a system like that, there would be no need for RPK to appear. He would have no role to play, honestly. He could well be a happy blogger blogging away about horses and cigars for all we know, and enjoying plenty of quality time with his family and friends.
There is another thing. What can one do in terms of checking on a government that is not transparent in its ways and at the same time controls the media? It is because of the denial by the umno government of our right to know that we the people had to resort to piecing the story together with bits of infomation floating about in public domain.
And the umno government (and you too Zak) has the audacity to say that bloggers are mongers of the untruth?
There is a simple solution to this problem actually. Free the media and be transparent. That way, when the umno government hears a complaint, they can very well be sure that it would be based on true facts. It would be better for them too for they need not duel with the ghost of rumours. It would be all cold hard facts.
Umno is in trouble? Yes of course. Umno authored all those troubles by itself and is blaming it on the opposition and the people.
#61 by newchief on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 1:51 pm
I agree with Maximus statement that actions be taken against irresponsible leaders who created fear and public disorder by spreading lies. Mind you lazy Max, you and all BN like bodowi SHOULD BE be the 1st to be tangkap because you ARE the irresponsible leaders who come out to instil fear on the rakyat!!
if you barbaric nationalists is so confident that DSAI can never become PM, why sent 50 suspected MPs AWAY in the first place!! Answer me !!! imagine the raktay money being spent for this trip. is it worthwhile to spend bung moktar the ‘education’ trip when he says YOUR MOTHER LEAKS!!?? damp you!!
what right has you to say oppositions are irresponsible & will surely mortgage the rights of the people away. have you really look after made your people / race in sabah and ensure they are very happy?? look yourself in the mirror 1st because the rakyat has seen that bn has failed FOR THE RAKYAT BUT NOT YOU OF COURSE!!
if bn dares, go for an advance fresh election NOW for another 5 years to convince me especially whether the rakyat wants a change or not in government!! the only consolation i get from this government is that i won’t be cursed for money which is not to my entitlement nor would i get into any serious health problems because i see more and more fat fat idiots in barbaric nationalists. that’s why your brains don’t work well for the rakyat!! good luck to barbaric nationalists health!!
#62 by goldenscreen on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 1:58 pm
Dear readers and DAP,
Is it possible to check the movements and activities of these BN MPs in Taiwan? Just to make sure that they are really studying high-tech agriculture and not making side stops to enjoy themselves. I’m sure the Taiwanese paparazzi would be happy to dig dirt on these fellows.
#63 by boh-liao on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 2:02 pm
AI and PR should do a little experiment.
They should announce that the crossover on 916 is now postponed to 1016. Let’s see if the BN MPs will be sent off to another R&R in October 2008.
#64 by cheng on on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 2:15 pm
Why go to a place where their culture, language, food etc are similar to the “pendatang” or “penumpang”?? “lagi pun” their people not “halal’. eat too much pork? why?
Did the trip include some of the agriculture experts from UPM? so that these experts can write some technical reports after the trip??
#65 by Godfather on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 2:17 pm
Zak the foreigner is talking nonsense again. PR has given true Malaysians hope – through the fact that they don’t steal. That’s not what Zak wants to hear, because Zak’s hero the Mamak condoned stealing when he was in charge for 22 years.
Go kiss the Mamak’s a$$, Zak.
#66 by cheng on on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 2:19 pm
To learn from Taiwan, how to grow better “Pinanag”, and use “Pinang” more widely, may help to win back Penang state??
#67 by tchin8080 on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 2:24 pm
I propose that the PR should condemn this trip throughly and bring those MPs who sign up on this to shame. This is an utter waster of tax payers money. I hope all those who elected for BN can wake up and see how blatantly the current government can put our hard earned money to waste.
I work in a Multi National Company, and even we do not send over 50 of our employees off to a 8 days study trip. Even justifying the need to send 5 people overseas for a crucial prototype first power on is met with rejection from higher management. While every other companies and countries are going into cost cutting mode to prepare for the uinknown economic climate, here we are having 50 BARISAN NASIONAL MPs send on a study trip for no reason.
To add salt to the wound, are our Barisan MPs so stupid that you need 50 members to go on a study trip before they can come up with a decent proposal?
It would have been more effective to sent groups of 3-5 MPs to different countries on study trips. At least when they are back, they could better debate on the pro and cons of the different methods used in each country. Whats the point fo having 50 MPs going to one country?
BN only knows how to waste money.
#68 by kanthanboy on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 3:08 pm
If 916 is successful the new PR government should declare that GE 13 will be held within a year to get a new mandate from the rakyat.
pkrisnin is right, before calling a new election PR must clean up the judiciary, the police, the AG, the ACA and the EC. One year should be engouh to create a level playing field for GE 13.
#69 by citizenwatch on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 3:36 pm
SIGNS: An ancient Italian philosopher ‘foresaw’ Malaysia’s protracted and convoluted politics based on signs that lead to a major event which the turning point for the country.
“This archipelago, (peninsular, his misperception at that time) a protrusion into the malacca waterways (straits) and the South China Sea have signs from both its good and less desirable people guiding its governance. It begins with a strapping young man recounting in God’s name, revisiting habits of denizens of Sodom and Gomorrah bears witness against a man of repute who wants to topple a corrupt government with an effete leader.
The signs of key personages involved: This man of repute is saved by witnesses in the form of a medicine man from a foreign land and a religious man with a relatively unusual name.
Those adversaries of his who unwittingly help speed up his noble intentions: An army head who is involved in the transaction of flying and underwater machines; an ambitious son-in-law of the effete leader; a chieftain of an area called flag hill who causes internal strife; chieftains who leave the effete leader; a warrior chief temporarily incapacitated because of heart ailment; high chieftains who are coerced to travel far with attempts to defer before some of them on their own accord walk across to join the other side to help this man of repute to rule. All these signs are to happen before the prophecy is fulfilled.” – Noholdsbarredamus, ancient philosopher.
#70 by scorpian6666 on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 3:59 pm
BN has time and time again and more so recently shown their inconsistencies under the pretense of fairness and lawfullness, gripping on to power by hook and crook for their own ends, that the only way to eliminated them for the sake of the country is not to play it “fair”
This latest “oversea trips” shows clearly the kind of leaders we have had. I certainly hope they would consider trading their seats with our farmers when they come back. One or two Mp..yes but 50s…If they are not idiots, what are they?
The downward trend of the BN is loud and clear. This trend call for a new evaluation of the BN.
I certainly agreed with a cross-over for the sake of putting a full stop to all these shames! in this current political climate.
Go for it … Cross-over for the sake of Malaysia ! but do be vigilant
#71 by pulau_sibu on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 4:06 pm
MPs sent to exile, let us know if you find Bala there!
#72 by walao on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 4:31 pm
Er….Go T
#73 by TheWrathOfGrapes on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 4:36 pm
This is called killing 50 birds with one stone.
1) Hopefully, these 50 cuckoos who flew their nest will not be available for Pakatan to persuade them to fly over.
2) Hopefully, these 50 cheapskates will be satisfied with this all-expense paid junket and blatant misuse of public funds poorly disguised as a study trip.
Hmmm, I wonder what they will be studying? How Chen Shui Bian laundered his ill gotten gains?
#74 by walao on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 4:36 pm
Why go Taiwan? Taiwan is in the mess , trying to fight corruption which involves Mr.Chen’s and his immediate family. Until now, even there’s so many proof against the formal leader, Taiwan government still slow in taking action against Mr.Chen. There’s nothing to learn there.
#75 by gofortruth on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 4:49 pm
Am I mistaken to see one of them (photo at KLIA) bringing along Golf gears for an Agricultural field trip? Sorry if I’m wrong.
#76 by gofortruth on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 4:50 pm
Oops photo here:-
http://themalaysianinsider.com/
#77 by badak on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 4:51 pm
Weather Sept 16 happen or not is not important.What is important is that UMNO led BN Government did not learn anything on 8 March.
They still have their heads in the clouds or buried in the sand.
Zak Hammaad… I will agree with you.It is wrong for DSAI to ask BN MPs to jump ship.DSAI must asked them to resign and then go for a BY ELECTION.This way no one can point fingers that this MP,s jump because of money.
By the way ZAK are you a Sabahan.I think you are bah…
#78 by zak_hammaad on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 4:54 pm
taiking, my posts are often continuation of previous ones. You know very well I was not speaking of MT’s political content, it is RP’s irresponsibility towards religion that has got him into trouble. I can give you plenty of examples of his disregard for facts and referential integrity when speaking about matters pertaining to Islam. He also does not allow you to correct him because he knows most of what he writes is a figment of his Islamophobic mentality.
As I said before, S’pore would have long interned him and thrown away the key because he is a threat to social stability: of which religion is a pillar-stone. Instead of big-mouthing through media, M’sia should learn from S’pore and understand such individuals are silently interned and not tolerated in any sense of the word!
#79 by richmom on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 4:55 pm
my friend from Taiwan came to market his biotech product 3 yrs ago.No sales since that time there is no demand for it.It is suppose to turn the animal waste from pigs into fertilizers and they said it is not applicable to Malaysian.BUT.I GUESS…Now it is the right time because:
1) we have huge land of oil palm needs to be fetilized.
2)pig farming is a great business potential since we can export to China –everybody said it is the biggest buyer in almost anything.
3)to avoid the sensitive no of 916
4) to educate our mps who really need to learn
so hurray to our smart PM–kill 4 birds with 1 stone
#80 by HJ Angus on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 5:04 pm
I have some suggestions on how both the BN and PR must work together to remove the possibility of civil unrest and also ensure that voters get the final say.
Read more at my blog
http://malaysiawatch4.blogspot.com/2008/09/malaysiakini-can-lead-to-promote.html
#81 by badak on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 5:10 pm
Zak hammaad i agree with you ,It is wrong for DSAI to ask BN MPs to jump ship.It is best that this MPs resign and go for a BY ELECTION.This way no one can point a finger accusing them of money politics.
By the way ZAK are you a SABAHAN.. I think so bah…
#82 by kisfiu on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 5:17 pm
How many by-elections will be have if they all don’t come back ?
#83 by Anak_Penang on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 5:23 pm
Is Sep 16 possible ?
Express yourself at votingmalaysia.blogspot.com
#84 by scorpian6666 on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 5:28 pm
Zak
you seem very smart but you also seem to fail to see this is Malaysia not Singapore. Not using the other half of your brain?
By the way, what would S’pore do to cases the like the Mongolian’s Murder or the latest “Taiwan Trips
Now Islam is a religion..a belief … facts and referential integrity .. does they really matter ?
Okay give us the pretty of examples of his disregard for facts and referential integrity. Show us the facts. Play fair
#85 by monsterball on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 5:35 pm
By election will be instant…if all are proven dead.
But these are going on a very serious..facts finding trip.
So important….it must be instant…no waste time.
Come back on 17th September…all cross over to Anwar.
So a delay to one or two days of Anwar’s plan…expected.
UMNO keep applying obstructions….obstacles…oppressions…giving 50 sexy objects..to poison the minds of these goodies..day and night…hoping they will not cross over.
Like Permatang Pauh…the end result…UMNO will be the sucker this time.
Anyway…easy money come..easy go…spend money stolen from us…try anything..try luck..under this clear and desperate time of theirs….every idiotic idea is a great idea to UMNO.
#86 by NewDAP on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 5:41 pm
tomorrow news,
plane carrying 50 MPs crashed, all MPs died.
there will be by elections for the 50+1 vacant parliament seats
Nov’2008 news
PKR and DAP won total 35 seats, Anwar becomes new PM,
AAB becomes the new opposition chief.
#87 by boh-liao on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 5:48 pm
Business Times, 8.9.08: “As At this juncture, the only certainty is that never before has the country observed Malaysia Day (16.9) with such great attention.”
Actually it’s a big, big, big risk having 50 MPs flying on the same plane. Imagine if something unfortunate were to happen to the plane mid air (Who knows whether any one of the BN MPs may be carrying C4?) or if the plane were to crash into a tall building in Taiwan (remember Sep 11?), what then happens to our parliament? Still need crossovers?
#88 by chinymin on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 5:53 pm
If it is genuine(?), I see that the UMNO MPs are so hard working(?), even during the fasting months, to learn new knowledge and technology from other country(?)!! We will see what sorts of new tech(?) they bring back on after “916”, so that Malaysia will promptly adopt(?) them and implement(?) same for the progress(?) of Malaysia. Malaysia boleh(?).
#89 by chinymin on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 5:59 pm
Sorry, not only UMNO MPs but BN MPs.
#90 by zak_hammaad on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 6:09 pm
scorpian6666 Says:
>> you also seem to fail to see this is Malaysia not Singapore.
Then why do we keep holding it as a model worthy of emulation? Do you now agree what works for them does not always work for us and vice versa?
>> By the way, what would S’pore do to cases the like the Mongolian’s Murder or the latest “Taiwan Trips
Have a full enquiry and bring hasten to bring the culprits to justice? Bury the investigations and blame low level individuals and say sorry (as was the case in the Mas Selmat case)? Who knows? Maybe you should ask PAP. What I am sure of based of previous seemingly less serious examples. Singapore has strict guidelines for bloggers otherwise they are out. Some no no’s are race and religion, even at their coveted “speakers corner”. Libellous and defamatory remarks often end with a legal writ (i.e. you can say it, but be prepared to pay for it!)
Example: In 2005, a 17-year-old Singaporean Chinese student pleaded guilty to sedition for posting anti-Muslim remarks on his weblog. A Malay lady commented on a blog discussing dogs that ride on taxis and she pointed out that Malay drivers should be able to refuse carrying passengers with dogs as they are considered impure in Islam (dog saliva).
He was the third person that month to be convicted under the Sedition Act. Full story can be googled by typing in “Third Singapore blogger pleads guilty”.
Singapore government thought is serious enough to warrant such action.
>> Now Islam is a religion..a belief … facts and referential integrity .. does they really matter ?
Firstly, Islam is more than a ‘religion’ it is a complete way of life and systems that govern every facet of life, be it social, political, economic etc. Secondly, facts and referential integrity I refer to is specific to Islam (i.e. if you say something within an Islamic context, be prepared to prove yourself from the established sources of Islam). You can NOT use Islam as a subject matter on one hand and disregard what it has to say about the subject matter on the other. Hope you understand.
>> Show us the facts. Play fair
A lot of the examples are very ugly and this is neither the space or place to give them. It will change the dynamics of this thread and it very sensitive. Just as some of our comments await moderation on this board, we must learn to be self-regulating as our dear Lim Kit is :^)
#91 by 7even Sins on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 6:16 pm
Why learning from Taiwan? Tot UMNO gomen always discriminate the Chinese and the other non-bumis. Since when Chinese ruled countries become such an important learning zone??? Don’t those most ego UMNO bozos sayang their air muka any more for bowing down to the Chinese Ruled Countries for lesson???
No matter what they do, this is their last Hari Raya trip before doom.
#92 by Yee Siew Wah on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 6:23 pm
One guy was right when he questioned in this blog “What planned study trip would have to depend on whatever visa that comes available first?
What study trip would need 50 MPs in attendance?
What study trip would require all 50 to study on ONE aspect?”
This stupid Botak TKS thought rakyat are all fools. 50 MPs to study say Agriculture, then need another 50 for Transportation…..the list goes on and on…
This show that the BN sc_mbags like Batok TKS are all politically bankrupt of ideas. They are so desperate and scared stiff to come out with this type of stupid dumb dumb scheme to fool the rakyat. Amazing indeed.
#93 by LBJ on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 6:50 pm
Now we know where they are going. Here is an updated survival guide for the BN YB going to Taiwan.
SURVIVAL GUIDE BN MP STUDY TOUR
=================================
This retreat and subsequently re-named as study trip forthe honourable MPs from Barisan is a serious affair. We have many member of the house on this trip and hope proper security and safety measures are taken. They must not be put into harms way for actions or inactions of the YBs.
1. You are going to Taiwan but make sure your plane do not land in Mongolia. Malaysians, especially BN MPs are not very welcome there now. Some of you may be unfortunate enough to be blown to smithereens with C4.
2. Make sure you keep your passport personally. Do not let your tour leader keep it for you. Your tour leader can loose your passport if you are not cooperative. We do not want that to happen, do we?.
3. Do not switch on your mobile phone. If you are taken to an area that do not have mobile phone coverage, so much the better. Anwar may call you. You do not want to receive this call.
4. Do not use the hotel telephone. Use the public telephone. And do not use the same public telephone every day. Make it difficult for other people to listen in.
5. If you hold any discussion in your room, use the bath room. Keep the tap running. It is more difficult for listening devices to work properly with running water.
6. If you have to talk in public, use code words. Anwar’s agents can be anywhere.
7. If you have a meeting, do not sit near the window. Conversation can be listened from a distance by using laser beams to modulate the window glass. If you are not sure what this mean, go ask an engineer.
8. Do not go out alone. Go in 2s or 3s. In this way, :
(a) you have witnesses if you are approached by Anwar’s agents
(b) You reduce the risk of being kidnapped and brainwashed to cross over to the opposition
(c) You reduce the risk of being kidnapped and disappeared without a trace if you are a suspect of crossover
Always watch your back.
9. Be careful on what you say on the golf course. A directional microphone can pick up your words from a distance. If you are not sure what this mean, go ask an engineer. Best is if you do not go near any golf course.
10. If you want to have some fun in your room. You know what I mean. Check for hidden cameras. If you need more advise, call Chua Soi Lek.
11. Do not fall for the honey pot trap. It can be a male or female kind. If you fall into one, make a police report. Else you will be blackmailed to do things you don’t want to do. That is not good for you. Also, be prepared for DVDs with you as the star.
12. If you hear a knock on your hotel door, pretend you did not hear it. If it become persistent, call hotel security. This is not Santa Clause.on the other side of the door.
13. Practice safe sex. Otherwise the good lady Marina Mahatir will bec ome very upset with a YB who increases the HIV+ count and set a bad example to boot. You do not want to cross the good lady.
14. Do not be photographed in Zhong Shan in Taipeh and other red light districts. Uou don’t want to be embarrassed when questions are raised on where have you been? Remember, always watch your back.
15, Ask you fellow MPs to surrender their mobile phones and cameras when they go to your room. You don’t want a Lingamgate, do you?
16. Check with your family every 24hours. Instruct them to inform the authority when they don’t hear from you after 24 hours. Give them a copy of your itinerary. Make sure it has a day by day itinerary. This may be the only clue available to look for you.
17. It is strongly suggested that you give a copy of your itinerary to the friendly press. In the event no one ever hear from you again, there may be a curious soul from the press who want to investigate the case of the missing YB. There is still hope
for closure.
18. Make sure you bring along your rubber boots. This is an agriculture study tour. You may step over some manure along the way.
19. If you are taken on a mountain tour of Alisan Mountain, make sure the bus is in proper condition. Refuse to get on the bus if you suspect the condition. Make sure the driver is alert and has sufficient rest. Refuse to get on the bus if you
suspect his condition. 49 by-elections will be very helpful to the opposition. You do not want that, do you?
20. Make sure you are properly disinfected before arriving back in Malaysia. You have been visiting plants and animals. Failure to do so could result in you being placed in quarantine. It may not be a bad thing. Anwar’s people cannot get to you.
21. If you are thinking of buying gifts, the following items are high appreciated.
(a) mobile signal jammer – all YBs are looking for one. Every Minister want one
(b) hidden camera seeker – ditto
Seeking these items brings focus to the high tech production study tour. These thoughtful gift will endear you to the receivers
22. Taiwanese hospitality means drinking you to under the table. People say things they should not say, when they are not in control of their faculty. Be careful.
23. You are on official parliament business. You are representing Malaysia. Make sure you are properly attired when in public. And make sure you wear your name tag.
24. Do not make the same mistake as Muhammed Taib. Do not carry to much cash in your briefcase. If you are stopped by Taiwan Customs, pretend you don’t speak Mandarin, Teochew, Hokkien or English. Better still, act deaf and dumb.
25. Keep a record of your visit and activity. Take photographs and videos. These are good evidence that you are really working. Better still, share these with the public so that they too can learn about agricultural techniques and high tech production. If you do not know how to start a website , consult Raja Petra. He will be more than pleased to help you.
26. Finally, make sure your trip organizer have travel insurance for you.. Make sure your life insurance cover overseas trip.
Remember, you are a YB. Ten thousand eyes are watching. Keep your chin up and walk straight. Have a safe trip!
#94 by ahkok1982 on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 7:21 pm
Learning about agriculture in Taiwan? Why Taiwan of all places?
Things on my WHY list is:
#1
TAIWAN has a different climate compared to MALAYSIA so WHY do the YB’s need to go all the way to TAIWAN to learn about agriculture. The things that TAIWAN plant are different.
#2
The main item in TAIWAN’s agriculture list is PIGS. Yes, Taiwan’s main produce is PORK. So does all the YB’s wanna go to pet the piglets?
#3
Plant wise, TAIWAN’s main produce is Sugarcane, Rice and watermelons (in descending order)… In MALAYSIA’s case, only Rice will be on the top of the list. Sugarcane and watermelons are just minor productions. So is BERNAS doing a lousy job that up to 41 YB’s who have no experience or knowledge in agriculture need to go to TAIWAN to learn instead of people from the agriculture field?
BN is really getting worse in telling lies…
#95 by riversandlakes on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 7:36 pm
Yeah, why Taiwan? That island is filled with “pendatang” that end up here :D
#96 by Bobster on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 7:41 pm
These BN cronies really digging their own graves and making fools of themselves … from Permatang Pauh election till now.
Rakyat seriously lossing more and more respect and trust with this government. Why need to flee if BN getting huge mandate from the rakyat as claimed by the sleeping PM?! PM just shot himself on the feet.
YOU DAYS ARE NUMBERED BN! YOU FLEES EVEN NO ENEMY CHASING! What A BIG SHAME!
#97 by my on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 8:26 pm
study trip eh?? make sure to ask them what they gain from the ‘study trip’, whether this trip is beneficial to the country or otherwise.
#98 by cactus of sarawak on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 8:30 pm
Dear YB LKS,
Why is our BN government did not recognize Taiwan degree in the first place and now they go to Taiwan for an educational trip. Where are their stand? Maybe now they realized that we can learn from taiwan after failling to learn from Japan for the past 20 years? One very simple thing that they fail to realize, resign if they fail to perform by the right of the people. Why don’t they go to Philipine? Oooh..YB DSAI had been there few years ago. How about Brunei? Cannot, because all the MPs can use van sapu to meet YB DSAI in Kuching or Miri. Then, maybe Indonesia? Also cannot because MPs from Malaysia are considered as foreigner and they might be attacked like the one happened in Bali. There are so many possibilities…
#99 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 8:45 pm
zak_hammad.
the muslims will choose this time to do the ummrah. not a field trip to taiwan.
#100 by Loh on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 8:49 pm
AAB was willing to be out of power on 17 September, but definitely not on 16 September. For that, AAB’s trusted aid will have to hold the passports of all the other MPs on study tour. But what is there to stop them getting a temporary travel document to return on the 14th or even 15th, and be part of the new government on 16 September as Anwar has planned?
We shall have a good laugh on 16th September.
It has been said that the Ahmad Ismail’s statement might be turned into something whereby an excuse could be created to declare a state of emergency. It was done before, and could be repeated. The emergency declared by Thai PM brought out a statement by the Army chief that security forces are behind the population when they are united, not when they are divided. He chose to do nothing, and there is still peace. That should inspire their counterparts elsewhere.
#101 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 8:52 pm
zak_hammad.
repeat error.
the muslims will choose this time to do the ummrah if they can afford. and not a field trip to taiwan. the muslims will pay zakat fitrah and this holy month is a month of reflection of oneself and not a month of going on a field trip to taiwan. and a muslim will not and should not tear the picture of mr.koh, hope you understand this basic before fitnah ym raja petra .
#102 by LBJ on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 8:54 pm
Hey my says.
Here is one subject that our YBs can learn and pass on when they come back. Technique on harvesting the golf ball fruit.
cheers
#103 by yhsiew on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 9:20 pm
I don’t see the rationale of sending 50 BN MPs all at once to Taiwan for a study trip. Abdullah should be held accountable to the rakyat for such blatant misuse of public fund (especially when the nation’s economy is not doing well).
#104 by cheng on on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 9:30 pm
Why Taiwan? Taiwan can’t even get our LAN (Lembaga Accred. Negara) to recognize degrees from their Uni, must be “very low” standard one, why learn from them? Do we recognize their Agricul. degree??
#105 by LBJ on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 9:41 pm
There is no reasons or rational for this trip. Just anywhere that can accomodate 50 MPs will do? Who care whether we recognise their degrees or not? Who care whether we can afford it or not?
Cant you recognise the Exile these MPS for 8 days, I dont care how you do it, just do it mentality.
Remember you have a precious vote. Exercise it the next round.
#106 by katdog on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 9:59 pm
zak_hammaad Says:
“Example: In 2005, a 17-year-old Singaporean Chinese student pleaded guilty to sedition for posting anti-Muslim remarks on his weblog.”
Now that’s good. I agree with Zak! We should follow Singapore’s SECULAR system of governance where no one religion is considered the primary religion. Observe that even in a secular government, Islam is still protected. So let this be a lesson to all the muslims out there, even in a secular government your religion will still be protected. Not like an Islamic government like Malaysia where people like RPK can bad mouth Islam and get away with it.
Wait? What’s that i hear from you Zak? A secular government like PAP’s will not work in Malaysia because of blah blah blah? (pardon me for not being able to recall your reasonings). So what do you want? You want us to follow Singapore? Or Not follow Singapore?
#107 by boh-liao on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 10:03 pm
It’s always risky to travel together on one plane.
Remember the air crash on 6 February 1958? On that cold and bitter Thursday, British European Airways Flight 609 crashed in Munich and killed seven Manchester United footballers, nicknamed Busby Babes. The Munich air disaster crippled the Manchester United team for a while.
Remember Flight MH2133 (Kota Kinabalu – Tawau) and 15 September 1995? An MAS Fokker F50 (9M-MGH) crashed into a shantytown during approach in Tawau, Sabah. Altogether 34 passengers were killed.
#108 by boh-liao on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 10:11 pm
Why a study tour of agriculture in Taiwan, you may ask.
Because the BN MPs are interested in “Agriculture” – rearrange the letters there and you will get: “Girl u ar cute”. That’s the ulterior motive of the study tour!
#109 by LBJ on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 10:16 pm
Yeah. Forgot about that.
27. Do not all travel on the same plane. Should something go wrong, by-elections will be very helpful to the opposition. You do not want that, do you?
It is strongly suggested to have 2 YBs per flight. Since there are 2 flights a day, 4 YBs should fly each day. Since there are 50 YBs this will take maybe 12 days. Better safe than sorry.
#110 by Earshot on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 10:50 pm
“Why Taiwan?… can’t even get our LAN (Lembaga Accred. Negara) to recognize degrees from their Uni…”
May be they first need to establish Taiwanese Universities Lembaga Accred. Negara – in short T U L A N. That is why they are on this study trip.
#111 by mendela on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 10:58 pm
Yes, “The Birds Have Flown”!
The birds are going to visit the SIL. The SIL of Ah Bian who is still in the lock up!
Wow, Bodowi’s SIL meeting Ah Bian’s SIL, cool!
Make sure our SIL bring with him a box of mooncake for Ah Bian’s SIL!
#112 by cancan on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:00 pm
Where do you want want to go?
Link: http://www.kingsmary.blogspot.com/
#113 by Kingkong on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:03 pm
I wish some of our writers could be more mature in discussing an issue. We have our own internal political problem within our country but please do not simply condemn others without facts and figures; even then it is not our objective to condemn others because our politicians wanted to go there. How many of you have visited Taipei / Taiwan lately?
I did visit Taipei two years ago on certain business and was pleasantly surprised by the courtesy and the educational level of the people there. It is indeed a very educated society. I thought it was because I was staying at the hostel of a University and so the atmosphere was different. However, a friend on a separate trip later on has a concurrent view. That is his account of observation as follows:-
“ A relative from Taiwan forwarded that article to me. I have been to Taiwan twice. The first time I really didn’t know much of Taiwan because I spent my trip touring the island and attending my daughter’s convocation.
The second trip was to attend my daughter’s wedding in Taipei and I spent another four days sightseeing in Taipei. Within these four days I visited a few tourist sites and a few shopping complexes in the metropolitan.
Below were two incidents in Taipei that impressed me very much.
The first incident was that we couldn’t find our hostel when we alighted from a taxi and so we stopped a passing cyclist to ask our way to the hostel and to our surprise the man immediately got down from his bicycle and parked his bicycle under a tree and then led us to our hostel. This could also happen in our country but it is rare to find such a friendly person in a big city.
And there was another incident. There was this young girl in her 20’s who walked into a mini-mart and queued behind us while we were paying for our soft drinks. She waited patiently for her turn and then told the shopkeeper that she had forgotten to pay for her purchases. She was such an honest girl. This example of honesty is rarely seen.
‘ The commoners in Taiwan are very nice people,’ that was also a comment made by my nephew who has been working in Taipei for quite some times as an actuarist.
Though Taiwan is not as lucky as Malaysia in natural resources, the people have achieved their success from scrape. The country built up its economy from semiconductor industry and in the arena of biotechnology. In contrast, though we have a lot of natural resources, much of our wealth has been siphoned off into personal coffers.
The Japanese occupied Taiwan for more than 50 years and they left behind their early technical know-how for the Taiwanese. “
We discussed this because of an article entitled “Respectable people in Taipei“written by a famous American writer.
It is to be noted that Taiwan’s efficient agricultural production is self sufficient, and people are hardworking and take pride in whatever job they are doing. Please do not condemn people just because you don’t like your own politicians to go there at a time you don’t like. They do not invite you to go, you choose to go there.
#114 by mendela on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:03 pm
Goldenscreen said “Is it possible to check the movements and activities of these BN MPs in Taiwan? Just to make sure that they are really studying high-tech agriculture and not making side stops to enjoy themselves. I’m sure the Taiwanese paparazzi would be happy to dig dirt on these fellows.”
Don’t worry. Our many students in Taiwan will do the paparazzi works.
Our hero film maker/composer of Negarakuku should join the trip and make a documentary movie out of this field trip!
He sure win big in next year Academy Awards.
#115 by MyFoot on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:21 pm
It is the people’s wish to change the government. Defections of BN MPs are just to carry out people’s wish. If you don’t believe, call another General Election now. PR will won more than 50% and form the next government. Rakyat are fed up with the BN government! This is what it is.
#116 by raven77 on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:27 pm
The problem with today’s BN’s politicians is …they still think Malaysians are fools and living it out in the kampongs…..those days are gone….and so will they…
#117 by kosmoalpha on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:30 pm
so they are heading out ot taiwan for a learning trip….learning from the taiwan kingpin of corruption,chen sui pian???
#118 by kosmoalpha on Monday, 8 September 2008 - 11:38 pm
anyway,the episode on these BN MPs would be noted down in history as self-exiles or forced exiles out fo desperation??they said the trip is self-funding,do u believe in it??it is ur choice!
#119 by kerajaan.rakyat on Tuesday, 9 September 2008 - 12:08 am
BERJAYAKAH ANWAR BENTUK
KERAJAAN PAKATAN RAKYAT PADA 16hb SEPT INI?
BERIKAN UNDIAN ANDA DI SINI
http://kerajaanrakyat-news.blogspot.com/
#120 by my on Tuesday, 9 September 2008 - 12:34 am
what an insult to the people’s intelligence. 50 MP to the same location, even if we take this as study trip, which country actually sends 50 brainless cow for field study oversea. i am surprised because there are still stupid people that voted for the BN to govern this country. what a wise choice, and please dont cry or rally if the country gets poorer day by day because YOU deserved it.. very good.
#121 by AsalUsuLMalaysiaHacked on Tuesday, 9 September 2008 - 2:19 am
Actualy Taiwan has the most successful media around the world, remember their parliament, those reports of MP throwing chairs, uncensored no hold bars lol!
And they also had all sorts of report in live, chat, views or debate from the opposition over the govern party broadcast every day on TV.
Looks like this goons thwart heading wrong direction straight land of truth that means to be doomed! xD
Hope the paparazzi in Taiwan start interview them one by one haha!.
#122 by delCapo on Tuesday, 9 September 2008 - 2:54 am
trying so hard to keep the “frogs” in the pond??
business class, golf bags, bags of $millions pocket money…. damn!
______________________
http://delcapo.wordpress.com/
#123 by ahkok1982 on Tuesday, 9 September 2008 - 7:18 am
Uncle Lim,
It is reported in The Star newspaper that Batu Sapi MP Datuk Dr Edmund Chong Ket Wah said that the trip was planned 3 months ago. So please do seek clarification on:
1) Their iteniary. What they are actually doing there for the whole period of time
2) Who they are going to visit to make the study
3) What is the specific topics that they are going to study
I will bet my bottom dollar that they cant answer even one question.
Also, “Dr” Edmund is so stupid to say that the trip was planned 3 months ahead. This statement already proves that he is lying. I remember someone said that their initial destination was China but then due to lack to time to apply for Visa, they are going to Taiwan. Yeah, 3 months planning and you cant get your Visa. Disgrace to people who are have actual qualification to be called Dr.
Plus, people are going as and when they like. Does this sound like 3 months planning?
Actually PR can just send someone down to Taiwan on Economy Class (Not Business Class like those MPs) to just tag along wherever they go and take many many many pictures. Then post their everyday move on the internet. Let everyone see what they are doing there in Taiwan and what they are studying.
#124 by k1980 on Tuesday, 9 September 2008 - 8:51 am
Tricia Yeoh, director of the Center for Public Policy Studies, a research organization, described the government’s reaction to the opposition’s challenge as a mixture of “fear and incompetence.”
“The Barisan government is really grasping at straws,” she said.
The Taiwan trip, Yeoh said, will give senior officials from the party an opportunity to try to dissuade potential defectors by lavishing expense money on them and striking deals.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/08/asia/malay.php
#125 by TheWrathOfGrapes on Tuesday, 9 September 2008 - 8:52 am
Actually, this is not such a dumb move. By sending them to Taiwan, the PM would in a way know who are with him and who are potential cross-overs. Whatever plausible reasons given by the back-benchers for not being able to go to Taiwan will be taken with a ton of salt…
#126 by PHUAKL on Tuesday, 9 September 2008 - 9:20 am
Hi All
Actually, the BN regime can learn a lot from Taiwan.
Even if our “suddenly gone green” BN MPs cannot pick up agricultural knowledge on their short study tour :-) , they can hopefully learn the following lessons from Taiwan:
1. Taiwanese universities are world class even if the Malaysian
Govt does not recognise their degrees (because of
political reasons). The postgrad Taiwanese students
I met while studying in the US are of consistently high
standard.
2. Many of their economic planners are PhDs (with degrees
from the best US universities)
3. They have emerged from a one-party dictatorship
during the Chiang Kai-shek years to become a two party
democracy
4. The Taiwanese Guomindang/Kuomintang party has genuinely
reformed to become more democratic. The process began with
Chiang Ching Kuo and accelerated under the leadership of the
intellectual Lee Teng Hui. As Dr Ooi Kee Beng has urged, UMNO
can and should learn from them!
After being ejected by the voters, the Guomindang were recently
re-elected into office. Their leader Ma Ying Jiau is
quite an impressive figure (apparently, he did a good job as
the Mayor of Taipei)
5. Their elections are genuinely democratic with freedom of
speech
6. Sure, there are fistfights in the Legislative Yuan. This is
because some of the deputies are linked to gangsters.
But as democracy deepens in taiwan, these kinds of people
will be weeded out by the Taiwanese voters.
Phua Kai Lit
#127 by greatwarrior on Tuesday, 9 September 2008 - 12:02 pm
Shows how ‘caring’ they are. The people in Penang and Kedah are battling with floods, they are enjoying themselves elsewhere. Why did anybody vote them in the first place anyway? See how they are taking care of their ‘rakyat’?
Read more:
http://www.harakahdaily.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16853&Itemid=1
#128 by boh-liao on Tuesday, 9 September 2008 - 12:23 pm
This is the holy month of Ramadan.
Please ask AAB and NR to swear (like what NR did previously) on the holy book that this Taiwan escapade of BN MPs has nothing to do with 916.
To speak the truth, nothing but the truth, or nothing but what looks like and sounds like the truth.
#129 by badak on Tuesday, 9 September 2008 - 1:55 pm
Half of the MPs on the trip have not even hold a spade in their hands . The other half don,t even know the diffrence between a salt water fish and fresh water fish.
Who is BN trying to bluff…
#130 by zak_hammaad on Tuesday, 9 September 2008 - 3:43 pm
katdog Says:
>> We should follow Singapore’s SECULAR system of governance where no one religion is considered the primary religion.
It’s pitiful when an individual twists the meaning and puts words in the mouth. The irony is that while you condemn S’pore for it’s tight control over blogs and media regulation, you want to use it as a model worthy of emulation. Which is it?
>> Observe that even in a secular government, Islam is still protected.
Islam does not need ‘protection’ it accords protection to others. It is not a mere religion, it is much bigger and comprehensive than that.
>> even in a secular government your religion will still be protected.
Being protected is one thing, being able to govern by it at federal level and practise and express it in PUBLIC is quite another! It is Islam that does not recognise secularism, not the other way around.
>> Not like an Islamic government like Malaysia where people like RPK can bad mouth Islam and get away with it.
There is nothing “Islamic” about Malaysia’s government. The fact that you can not fathom this is why you make silly mistakes. Judging Islam according to BN’s policies and style of governance is like judging Catholicism because of what Nazis did.
>> A secular government like PAP’s will not work in Malaysia because of blah blah blah?
Not blah blah but because of a totally different geo-social demography. Its akin to telling PAP to become a liberal democracy, lol. Let me repeat, secularism can never be reconciled with Islam in any way, shape or form. Live with it! Malaysia is 60% Muslim. Live with it! How the status quo changes to deal with the minority more equitably is the question you need to ask. If you think Pakatan is the best thing since sliced bread who will resolve all your woes, then you are very much mistakes. Far from removing racial politics, they will actually exacerbate it!
>> You want us to follow Singapore? Or Not follow Singapore?
That is a question you need to answer.
Good day.
#131 by katdog on Tuesday, 9 September 2008 - 7:14 pm
Ha ha. Zak. I’ll just reply.
“The irony is that while you condemn S’pore for it’s tight control over blogs and media regulation, you want to use it as a model worthy of emulation. Which is it?”
Excuse me but i did not condemn Singapore for its media control. So i will reuse your words: It’s pitiful when an individual twists the meaning and puts words in the mouth.
“It is Islam that does not recognize secularism”
Ah yes. Thank you for shedding light on this matter. Next time please remember to highlight this important point when explaining your reasoning why a secular system will not work. This is the key reason you have failed to explain clearly in your previous posts.
“There is nothing “Islamic” about Malaysia’s government.”
I’m sorry but I thought that was what Dr. M said? Its not secular cause you claim thats what LKS is trying to change the government to. So what government is Malaysia?
“That is a question you need to answer.”
No actually i don’t need to answer that question. Because i already know which party is the best to lead the country and it’s definitely not PAP. Everyone knows it is not perfect but its still the most logical and reasonable choice at the moment compared to the thieves, liars and murderers in BN. You are welcome to form a 3rd political front if you believe you have the perfect answer to Malaysia’s problems. Maybe have a chat with Gerakan for they are considering becoming an independant party again.
#132 by lopez on Tuesday, 9 September 2008 - 10:14 pm
It is a sunset club this m see air, late comers should quickly get out before having to take all blame.
Some one must make sure these 50 M pees return and dont wander off in the restauarants pretending to wash plates and disaapear, the micheal would be very busy again with the taiwanese u/grd.
#133 by zak_hammaad on Tuesday, 9 September 2008 - 10:25 pm
katdog Says:
>> This is the key reason you have failed to explain clearly in your previous posts.
Either you’ve been asleep like your Bodoh PM or you simply missed all my previous posts that CLEARLY highlighted this fact. Do not respond to me for the sake of responding as it is a time wasting excercise.
Good luck with your utopia.
#134 by katdog on Tuesday, 9 September 2008 - 11:53 pm
“Either you’ve been asleep like your Bodoh PM or you simply missed all my previous posts that CLEARLY highlighted this fact.” – zak_hammaad
Well you have to excuse me for being so bodoh. So it is just my humble suggestion (to help all of us bodoh people here) next time you want to point out why secularism won’t work in Malaysia please use this exact phrase: “It is Islam that does not recognize secularism”. That really makes things a whole lot clearer than all your fancy explanations. Thanks.
“Do not respond to me for the sake of responding as it is a time wasting excercise.” – zak_hammaad
Don’t sweat it mate. i don’t mind wasting a bit of my time.
“Good luck with your utopia” – zak_hammaad
Thanks. I wouldn’t call it utopia as utopia generally suggests something unachievable. Thanks anyways.