Terrorist links – stop demonising Hindraf leaders and two million Indians for speaking up against marginalisation

I call on the the Prime Minister, Cabinet Ministers, the Inspector-General of Police and the Attorney-General to stop treating Hindraf leaders and ordinary Malaysians who attended the Nov. 25 30,000-strong Hindraf demonstration as “terrorists” just because “somebody” had lodged a police report that Hindraf has contacts with LTTE.

Just because “somebody” had lodged a police report making an accusation against an organization cannot be the basis for any public policy as the government, Inspector-General of Police and the Attorney-General will surely not treat UMNO and Barisan Nasional leaders and members as “terrorist” just because “somebody” has lodged an unsubstantiated police report that they have connections or links with terrorist organizations.

The Attorney-General Tan Sri Gani Patail was the first to raise the alleged Hindraf links with terrorists when he deployed it as the “star” argument at the Shah Alam Sessions Court on Wednesday to oppose the application for bail for the 31 persons charged for the “attempted murder” of a policeman. What was the justification for the Attorney-General leading the attack on Hindraf for its alleged terrorist links?

Yesterday, Gani said his linking Hindraf to the LTTE in his argument at the Shah Alam Sessions Court on Wednesday was based on a police report.

He said: “Somebody lodged a police report that there is ground that these people have been going out to (establish) contact with this LTTE.’

Surely, this is too flimsy a ground for the Attorney-General to found his whole court strategy to virtually regard the 31 ordinary Malaysians as terrorists out to wreck the country and too dangerous to be allowed out on bail pending their trial.

But this is exactly the line which the Prime Minister, Cabinet Ministers, the Police and the Attorney-General have adopted with regard to the Hindraf leaders and the ordinary Malaysians who had gathered for Nov. 25 rally to peacefully, democratically and constitutionally send a clear and unmistakable “cry of desperation” of the long-standing political, economic, educational, social, cultural and religious marginalization of the Malaysian Indians into a new underclass to serve as a wake-up call to the Barisan Nasional Government.

The Prime Minister has led the attack on Hindraf for its allegations of “ethnic cleansing” and genocide of Indians in Malaysia, but can the government, police and Attorney-General, with the vast resources at their command, be unaware that the 30,000 Malaysian Indians who had congregated in Kuala Lumpur from all over the country were completely unconnected to these allegations and that their support of the Hindraf demonstration was for one and only one purpose – to call the attention of the government to the decades-long marginalization of the Malaysian Indians?

Have the top Barisan Nasional leadership decided on a harsh and even cruel response to the “cry of desperation” by 30,000 Malaysian Indians on behalf of two million Malaysian Indians for an end to their marginalization as Malaysian citizens, as illustrated by:

• the demonisation of Hindraf leaders and creating the conditions to prepare for their detention under the Internal Security Act, with growing chorus of demand for the invocation of the ISA by BN Ministers and even with the Prime Minister publicly discussing the ISA option; and

• treating those who attended the Hindraf demonstration as “terrorists” and grave threats to national security who cannot be allowed bail when they are ordinary Malaysians who have nothing to do with the allegations of “ethnic cleansing” and genocide and only wanted their legitimate grievances about the marginalization of Malaysian Indians to be heard and addressed by the government.

The Prime Minister and the Barisan Nasional government must be forewarned – that a harsh, insensitive, cruel and high-handed response to the 30,000-strong Hindraf demonstration on the marginalization of the Malaysian Indians, demonizing the Hindraf leaders as terrorists and the two million Malaysian Indians who want an end to their marginalization as grave national security threats will only aggravate the sense of alienation, deprivation and marginalization of the Malaysian Indian community.

It will have grave short-term, mid-term and long-term repercussions.

Short-term, there will be further alienation of the Malaysian Indian community aggravating racial polarization and national division, undermining our international competitiveness.

This will also have electoral consequences for the forthcoming general election, as there are 62 parliamentary seats and 138 state assembly seats in Peninsular Malaysia where the Indian voters account for more than 10% of the electorate – not enough to singly decide the outcome of any constituency but able to influence as to which party and candidate will get elected in the constituency.

There are 13 such parliamentary and 27 state assembly seats in Perak – with Indian voters comprising as high as 26% for a parliamentary constituency and 45% for a state assembly seat.

If the Malaysian Indians continue to be marginalized, and their “cry of desperation” on Nov. 25 by 30,000 people on behalf of two million Malaysian Indians result in further marginalization, then Barisan Nasional candidates cannot depend on the Malaysian Indian votes as a captive vote bank as in past general elections and by-elections.

In the higher interests of national unity and greater international competitiveness, sanity and good sense must prevail and I call on the Prime Minister to provide the leadership to respond positively, constructively and in a statesmanlike manner to the “cry of desperation” for justice of the Malaysian Indian community to end their long-standing marginalization with two measures:

• Establish a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Hindraf demonstration on Nov. 25, the police handling and conduct as well as allegations of terrorist links of Hindraf; and

• A National Conference of all political parties, NGOs and stakeholders to deal with the root causes of the Hindraf demonstration – the marginalization of the Malaysian Indians – but with a larger national ambit and term of reference: a New Deal to end the marginalization of the Malaysian Indians and all marginalized groups in the country.

  1. #1 by k1980 on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 10:45 am

    What oh what is their motive?
    Why did Azilah Hadri and Sirul Azhar premeditate the murder of Amina Abdullah (aka Altantuya Shaaribuu Setev) ? The bodohs from the AG’s chamber cannot answer this simple question.

  2. #2 by lakshy on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 10:46 am

    Wouldn’t comments by IGP and AG and Nazri, Najib and AAB and other clowns be subjudice as the matter is now in the courts?

    Have they tried and hung the people before the courts can even listen to the case? Well I guess they can do so when the courts are under their control. Guess that is malaysian democracy for you!

    I call on all people to move on. Totally ignore the provocation from the gomen as it is obvious that the gomen of AAB is bankrupt of ideas and is actually fanning racial sentiments in order to unite the malays so that they can win the elections by acting as champions for the malays and hence win with their votes alone.

    Let us prove that we are beyond all that!

  3. #3 by St0rmFury on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 10:50 am

    I find it funny that they didn’t appoint a 3-man panel to investigate the authenticity of the police report.

    Double standards much?

  4. #4 by cheng on soo on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 10:54 am

    May be some one worry that police n army may forget how to deal with terrorist, (since CPM Chin Peng dismantle his gang so long ago), so must find some way to refresh police n army in this skill, so just label some body terrorist, then deal with it accordingly. Then we can show the world we are better than USA in combatting terrorist lah!

  5. #5 by k1980 on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 11:01 am

    The only terrorists I see in this country are those blowing apart foreign visitors using C-4. They learned that in Afghanistan from Osama’s destruction of the Bamiyan statutes?

  6. #6 by sj on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 11:04 am

    I really do hope that this is just smoke screen of one of their cheap publicity stunts to push the real issue at hand away from the attention of the public. If the AG can use such flimsy statement to do a prosecution on others claiming people were terrorist, he should be brought down for gross stupidity.

  7. #7 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 11:11 am

    I blame this on the four lawyers, leaders of HINDRAF for drumming up the threat of violence as a real risk in their interviews with the media especially foreign media. Kumar himself attributed his overt reference to the threat of violence to the failure of Opposition leaders like Anwar and Kit to speak with one voice, loud and clear. Had they done so he said Badawi just might listen. They did not.

    Since they didn’t he felt he had no alternative. By doing so and with the purported reference to LTTE (or Tamil Tigers fighting their war against the government of Sri Lanka) in their memorandum to the Queen, he and the others like him unwittingly fell prey to the UMNO led government now busy laying its foundation for a possible terrorism charge against those accused. Unfortunately, it does not depend on us the public to determine if the charge could or would stand. In fact if they were to be detained under the ISA, they don’t have to be charged!

    Their over reaction to the government response against the demonstration, in my opinion, has led to claims valid or otherwise by some that they have betrayed the trust of many of the HINDRAF supporters who only wanted to see their plight recognized publicly. Kumar has blamed the NGOs and other groups for not putting their full weight behind their cause.

  8. #8 by lbn on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 11:12 am

    When there’s no avenue for bringing up grievances, street protest is the only way. What these BN people talking? They should take hints of the dissatisfiction of the people and stop reacting with accusations. The gomen should be proactive instead trying to explain and find justification to their excuses. Hi diah gomen, just be honest and face the TRUTH!

  9. #9 by cheng on soo on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 11:16 am

    If we are better than USA in combatting terrorist, then we can set up a “Terrorist Eradication College” and get many countries to send their people to us for training on how to eradicate terrorist lah!
    Good idea, isn’t it? MALAYSIA BOLEH !

  10. #10 by pkrisnin on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 11:27 am

    PM won the first election based on promises to eliminate corruption but that fell through as many of his corrupted ministers still holding their post.

    Now cannot use the “getting rid of corruption tactic” people will see right through it.
    So they go and destroy Indian temples to make the Indians mad and cause them to riot. All so gov. can play the race card to scare the Malays into believing that they are in danger.
    This is the acid test for the Malay race, to see how much they have matured in their way of thinking.
    To vote or not vote for BN.

  11. #11 by emgbrl on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 11:39 am

    Dear Malaysians!!
    Destroying Temples, Removal of Crosses from Missionary Schools,Hospitals & Churches, Body snatching, Morality Police & Snoop squads—–sounds Familiar???Welcome to MALAYSIA-THE LAND OF THE NEW TALIBANS!!!Our PM is the new MULLAH of the UMNO-TALIBANS.
    Malaysians of all faiths must REJECT the TALI-BN-ISING of the Country in the coming Elections.
    Vote Out the UMNO-TALIBANS for the future of our next generation!!!

  12. #12 by sec on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 11:46 am

    It has recalled my memory that former PM after the 1999 GE had accused the ” Chinese Chamber Group” is Communist.The Hindraf dare to sue gov; what MCA can do for Chinese at that time. They are afraid to lost ” Kongsi money” in the BN gov.

  13. #13 by Be fair on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 11:53 am

    The problem with the Indian community making such demonstration goes all the way back to the root of special privileges to the Bumiputra community. Think about it, the opportunities which maybe for the Indian communities is taken away with such special treatment.This is a modern day double standard and discrimination.They lost jobs or contracts and other things just because of this rule.

  14. #14 by ckm on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 12:02 pm

    What does this government want to achieve? Are they doing this consciously or are we on a pilot less boat to oblivion?

    Policies that marginalise certain communities are sure to create resentment and anger. The indian are marginalised, as are the chinese and even the orang asli, certainly even the less educated malays.

    Policies that benefits one community only, serves to take away from another. Politician can paint it in any color, but there will be always losers. The best a government can do is to act fairly and be above reproach.

    There is only one end to a race-based government, violence and chaos. The more the a racist government gain, the more egotistic it gets. It no longer see its faults but only defines the criticisms of others as descent.

    Its act of suppressing democracy and free speech will only drive the disenchanted underground. This anger will fester and grow until life has little meaning. Some may leave and those that can’t might commit suicide, others hit back in the form of terror.

    Do these government top guns really want to live by the gun. Remember that violence begets violence, do they really want to live in fear. Remember that when the others have nothing, they have nothing to lose and when you have everything, you have everything to lose.

    Do we want groups of rebels roaming the underground murdering and kidnapping to financing their livelihood. Do we want bombings and shooting like in southern thailand and sri lanka. So many have already turn to crime, because they have no other choices, do we now want to push them further.

    Does the government intend to further oppress and anger 2 million of its citizens (and maybe another 8 more). There are already so many examples to learn from, sri lanka, mindanao, south thailand, timur, aceh, bosnia, laos, sudan… the list is an endless list of failed societies.

    I am personally fearful for our future, the ones in power are now arrogant and bullies. The ones bullied are now angry. The arrogant one may now have to resort to actual violence and not just the threat of violence. The bullied may have to fight if only to live. If it is not ethnic-cleansing now, it will soon be.

    It may already be too late, UMNO has done a very job at creating racial intolerance. Corruption has stolen from the poor and the poor are angry, it looks like the government wish to turn one angry group against another. The one that now think they are protecting their rights to privilege against the others that have none.

  15. #15 by LittleBird on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 12:06 pm

    Once Fatah and Hamas and Abu Sayaf were declared as terrosrist by US but didn’t we rightly continued to support their cause.

    I doubt LTTE really cares for Malaysian Indian Tamils who were largely made up of poor tamils from estates who really need all the support from all Malaysian for them to start all over again.

  16. #16 by Libra2 on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 12:09 pm

    Then IGP must be real bunkum. If his Intelligence gathering is efficient they would have found out all about these terrorists links long before the Hindraf Rally. How is that they did not know? Because there wasn’t any.
    This terrorists story is a UMNO-IGP creation to tarnish the Indians with one brush.
    There may be short term political gain for UMNO but in the long run this will ruin the economy and the country.
    Now it is UMNO/AG/IGP which is chasing away foreign investors.

  17. #17 by Jong on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 2:13 pm

    The BN govt, IGP and AG are desperate. Their reputation beyond repair. To link Hindraf to “terrorism” is not only sickening, horrendous and insane, it also shows how low they can go.

    Let’s vote in the Opposition in coming General Election!

  18. #18 by Jamesy on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 2:30 pm

    Next, Bersih and the Bar Council are “terrorist-linked”?

    Argument : THEY ARE ALL THE SAME.

  19. #19 by Godfather on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 2:51 pm

    Brainless and spineless BN leaders supported by brainless AG and IGP, who are in turn suppported by the brainless mainstream news editors.

  20. #20 by naked taliban on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 2:54 pm

    a] mattress carrying cop
    b] corruption without involving money -DPP
    Both have something in common, SICKENING SODOMY CASE !!
    credible leaders we have , Malaysia boleh.

  21. #21 by k1980 on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 3:08 pm

    Come to think of it, didn’t the 19 hijackers of Sept 11, 2001 belong to Hindraf too? And also the murderers in the Breslan school massacre and the death camps of Nazi Germany. They all are members of Hindraf!!! In other words, a terrorist = a member of Hindraf

  22. #22 by Libra2 on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 3:49 pm

    The only sane voice now is from Kit.
    I hope BN leaders, AG and IGP are running amok will listen to him.

    Bringing calm seems to least of their priorities. They don’t seem to realize the real threat the the nations are the BN leaders, AG and IGP who trying to destablized the situation with their actions and pronouncements.

  23. #23 by Libra2 on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 4:55 pm

    Another disappointment is the Sultan of Selangor’s remarks in today’s STAR. Why did he join in the fray? He shouldn’t have?

  24. #24 by benny on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 5:02 pm

    The top guys like imam hadhari,IGP,AG without any data accusing HINDRAF to have terrorist link.As AG said LTTE is banned organisation by UN,I seriously wonder where did this dumb AG got that informations.The umno led govt is just twisting and creating hatred towards the indian.To be genuine IMAM hadhari was my idol when he won the 11th GE,but today he is down in the drain.He lies through his teeth.MY motto now is to convince as many people to vote 4 oppositions.

  25. #25 by dawsheng on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 5:13 pm

    is it feeling like climate of fear over in malaysia?

  26. #26 by sheriff singh on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 5:13 pm

    I suppose the 31 potential “murderers” now under custody will also be charged soon for being “terrorists”.

    Boy, the government is really scared stiff and is going all out to get them. Elections are near so they are working real hard to turn the people’s minds by putting fear in all of them.

    The AG and his counterparts are really clutching at straws about this “terrorist link” angle. This remains an accusation which anyone can make and which may be false but what the heck, go to town with it.

    That’s why the AG’s chamber loses cases, it bases them on flimsy, unproven grounds, coupled with pathetic prosecution. Perhaps they will now be calling in shadows, skeletons and phantoms as witnesses.

    Who is the person who made the report about the LTTE link? Is he a reliable source? Was he trying to find out if the Hindraf fellows have any links with the Lingam Tape Truthfulness Enquiry (LTTE) committee?

  27. #27 by k1980 on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 5:15 pm

    Petition from citizens to His Majesty the Yang DiPertuan Agong praying for the deferment of the appointment of the President of the Court of Appeal pending the findings and recommendations of the intended Royal Commission of Inquiry


  28. #28 by Jefus on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 5:33 pm

    If the 31 people go to jail for murder, they may be the first people to win the Nobel Peace Prize, prisoners of conscience of Malaysia.

    Think about it. Remember Nelson Mandela, Aung San Su Kyi,… are we going into that direction?

  29. #29 by fed-up on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 5:36 pm

    All our concerns and plea’s are fallen into deaf ears, don’t we all have any say in any way? Must me wait 4-5 years to make a stand and to see change of leadership through a ballet box? So what happens in between one GE to another? Why don’t gomen listen to the all the poor souls, im not only referring to indians, but also poor marginalized malays (who are being duped into NEP) and chinese. Is being equal to all races is such a pain. Aren’t we all one race called Malaysians. And now when the rakyat pleads, bleeds and send petitions over petitions and nothing is being looked upon or done, of course its natural for the rakyat to take it to the streets and to the world, and this is what my dear gomen made BERSIH and HINDRAF do! Aren’t we not being robbed in daylight in our own country? Where does all our income tax, service tax, road tax, business tax, etc… go to? In to some nuts pocket? Gomen:Please don’t say that we cannot question where our money goes…Don’t we all deserve to know? Do we really need a sensationalized spaceman who does no good to science & purchases of submarines and machine guns in a peaceful country like ours is needed? Do we also need multi billion dollar project which is planned to failed? If all the money, all these years has been put to good use, people would not have questioned the gomen today… In fact we could have been better off than Singapore with all the land and natural resources we had, and “Standing in the eyes of the world” would have been more meaningful, now its just a catchy phrase to fool us into believing that we are getting prosperous by the year. Lets face the facts, almost all prices are going up but not our salaries.
    To our corrupt leaders, politicians, policy makers and decision makers (we know who you are, and you know who you are), please please open your eyes and see, step out of you bungalows, your beemers, mercs & from your posh lifestyle and try to fit urself in an average malaysians shoe for a month, u will understand our plight. Please stop being ignorant and stop playing ignorant, there are 28 million of us. If you do not help, who will? No matter what you do u can never take the greed to the grave and what goes around will surely come around.
    Where do we go from here? Ask your-good-selfs my fellow Malaysian brothers…

  30. #30 by hotsync on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 5:44 pm

    Its just amazing how fast the Gov, PDRM, half past 6 ministers jumped on accusing and condemning the Malaysian Indians as terrorists. For the past few days, TV, newspapers, radio etc have been blasting the same messages. Where’s the proof? What? police report made by someone? duh if chinese then link to them to communist ar? Oh No! the public should be in fear cos we are under terrorist attack duh!!! The only attack I witnessed was that the PDRM spraying chemical water and tear gas at the innocent people.

    Everybody knows that its a UMNO propaganda, its just too obvious and coincidence based on the news.

  31. #31 by grace on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 5:46 pm

    When a minister was accused of corruption, this “smart’ Nazri ask “Where is the million of ringgit? Show him and only then would he believe”.
    Now Hindraf is accused of having link with terrorists. Where is the proof?

  32. #32 by mwt on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 5:49 pm

    When the lead singer gives the signal, the chorus follows in condemning Hindraf activities and imaginary ones. The IGP is adding more spices to cook up the external linkages theories. As the AG has said it was based on someone’s police report. They have no evidence yet and only started the investigations.
    Then the component parties started to sing. That MCA Ah Kiow Deputy mentioned as if the link is already established and said the “seeking support is an act of desperation”. MCA & MIC on cue joined in
    But the most annoying is the declaration by that SIL
    “recent developments in the country even showed opportunities had improved for the non-Malays in the government service”
    Is he telling the truth or pushing the keris deeper to hurt more?
    More details
    Go H E R E

  33. #33 by shortie kiasu on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 5:49 pm

    It is strange to note that BN or rather UMNO are so paranoid about dissent or alterntive opinion, like in the case of HINDRAF? They are making mountain out of a molehill, and they just could not stop branding and hurling HINDRAF with all sorts of ridiculous accusations and allegations to the extent that the paranoia baffles right thinking people of the country and also outide the country.

  34. #34 by grace on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 7:01 pm

    Here this stupid Samy does notknow how to use Indian talents. He is not talented andshould give way to more talented Indians. In Singapore where the number ifIndians are much lesser than Malaysia, they could hold very important posts: Namely: DPM, Minister of Finance, Minister of Education and head of Tamasek Investment.
    Now the latest being that the next Citi CEO may be an Indian.

    I wonder what our country is up to? Others are happily making use of talents irresoective of colour and here we are discarding the talents!!! GOOOOOOD BYYYYYYYYYYYYE M’sia!!!

  35. #35 by sheriff singh on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 8:37 pm

    Why is the government so afraid of Hindraf?

    Well those who suffer from Dandruff knows only too well that it is a mysterious disease that afflicts many. It is a pesky problem with no known cure and affects those between 12 and 80 years old with or without hair. Read more about it here:


    Well there were many in the government up there who suffer from Dandruff and thought Hindraf was a related disease and ought to be controlled quickly before it infects other bodily parts like those with big ears. They are now feverishly trying to contain this Hindraf dandruff outbreak before the WHO (World Hindraf-Dandruff Organisation) steps in. Can mass cropping of bodily hair under the ISA (Internal Shaving Act) be not far off?

  36. #36 by Rocky on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 9:00 pm

    someone has better intelligence network than the police! wow!

    This is the same AG that accepted there was no corruption in one of the cases cos the people involved said there was none. so don’t expect much from him. Only hope he judges will be fair to the Indians in this case. as it is we can see from tis case, the govt is discriminating the indians. What about the Batu Buruk incidents, clearly people we seen throwing rocks and police man fired shots. what has happened there.

    Hindraf – you guys are stupid!!! you had it your way until this stupid claim if ethnic cleansing and we will use violence. Plain stupid!!!

  37. #37 by k1980 on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 9:00 pm

    Holy Cow! All those suffering from Dandruff will be detained under the ISA?

  38. #38 by HJ Angus on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 9:31 pm

    Before the IGP spouts more against the HINDRAF he should restore the good name of the police with the speedy implementation of the IPCMC.

    That was deemed necessary by a royal commission while this talk about terrorist links came soon after those people were charged in court. Isn’t it sub judice?


  39. #39 by Putra-Malaysia on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 9:34 pm

    I’m really sick of this TV3 (other local medias as well). In yesterday’s 8pm news the newscaster said “..Hindraf menjadi biadap sehingga ia ada hubungan dengan kumpulan pengganas”. Where the local media is heading? Why they don’t feel shame to lie to public. Media’s holly professialism has been corrupted with some ‘evil’ people.
    Why they still in denial mode to listen the ‘rakyat’ who has been suffering from some impractical policies where weak rakyat become more weaker and leaders become more and more….
    If smart leaders take control of ‘everything (from media to judciary or whatever) to bring nation and plural societies towards achieve a developed status nation then that’s fine like what is happening is our southern country Singapore. But here opposite is happening.
    History is very good to learn. Not because it’s nice to read or compulsory to learn; but to know why great civilisations had doomed and now how we now should not let the same thing hit us by taking very inteligent moves and action.
    I bet…our leaders can’t understand this.

  40. #40 by dawsheng on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 9:37 pm

    Please don’t be mistaken the Indians are crying out of desperation, what i hear is cries for freedom. Today it is their basic rights that’s been trampled upon, and it is their basic rights to stand up and act to protect themselves, with force if they have to, is there any other choices?

  41. #41 by Jackychin on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 9:48 pm

    People, people, Look at the bigger picture, its working! its working! the recent rallies have made their points, the rulling party now are more cautious about their ill practices, goverment sectors announced to have more variety of races in the offices rather than the superior race, today the PM emphasised that SME funds are for all, and etc etc…They are working hard on sweeping their own mess…

    For the main stream media they have tighter control, ofcourse, using it against the people and manipulate the less informed, just believe the opposite of what is announced and we’ll get the truth, simple…

    And for those who are planning to leave the country please stay and continue the battle for a better tomorrow for our childern, we need people who believe in the good of our country men and opposition efforts…

    And for the “Link between Hindraf and Terrorist parties” announced by the PM and others to the world, is another major humiliation to themselves, who will believe them? Have we seen Tamil tigers and other terrorists running arround our country?…What next? Links with UFOs? Alien Invaders?…

    All in all, the people is benefiting…

  42. #42 by motai on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 10:04 pm

    Police report by P. Uthayakumar 8-12-07 (against Prime Minister, Law Minister, Attorney General, Inspector General of Police.

    Police Report by myself P. Uthayakumar against (1) Malaysian Prime Minister Badawi and UMNO Leaders (2) Law Minister Nazri, (3) Attorney General Gani Patail, (4) Inspector General of Police Musa Hassan and (5) the UMNO controlled print and electronic media namely The News Strait Times, The Star, Malay Mail, Utusan Malaysia, Berita Harian, TV3, RTM 1 and 2, NTV 7 and Astro etc for making false, malicious, seditious, criminally defamatory, racially inciting and inflammatory statements and/or publishing and/or broadcasting and/or causing to be published and/or broadcasted and/or causing the same to be broadcasted that Hindraf has links with LTTE, terrorist groups and supports violence.

    Over the last three (3) weeks the UMNO controlled Malaysian Government and authorities have been going on a smear campaign and/or Hindraf bashing sessions using their aforesaid print and electronic media and on a headlines basis almost every day.

    The statements published and/or broadcasted and/or caused to be published and/or broadcasted that I and/or the Hindu Rights Action Force (Hindraf) have links with terrorist organizations, and/or supports violence, Nazri’s statement that “this was from statements of Hindraf leaders who went overseas to garner support that they would meet LTTE leaders” (“Links with Tamil Tigers and India’s RSS, says Nazri,” The Star 8-12-2007 page N10) and Gani Patail’s statement that “The AG had on Wednesday told the court that he had reports Hindraf members had connections with the LTTE” (“Hindraf has links with Tigers” (New Straits Times 8-12-2007 Page 6 (based on an alleged police report lodged by a member of the public which I now say is a false police report. Please investigate and let me know within 48 hours from the date and time herein) is false, malicious, seditious, criminally defamatory racially inciting and inflammatory.

    This is a desperate attempt by UMNO and the Malaysian authorities to sidetrack and/or divert from the real issues Hindraf is championing that is the racism, marginalisation and permanent colonialisation of the ethnic minority Indians in Malaysia by the UMNO controlled Malaysian government for the past 50 years. This is especially so after 25-11-2007 whereafter Hindraf enjoys the support of at least 95% of the 2 million Indians in Malaysia and also has the support and sympathy of foreign governments, NGOs and the media.

    This latest statement is also to falsely and maliciously build up a case against me and Hindraf leaders to detain me and other Hindraf leaders without trial under the draconian Internal Security Act and/or other laws and deny me and the others bail and lock us up and punish us even before we are being found guilty in a Court of Law as was done to the 31 peaceful assemblers and hindu devotees praying at Batu Caves by the Shah Alam Sessions Court on 6th December 2007.

    The above is also a political ploy as the Malaysian general elections are around the corner. Hindraf and their members are victimized persecuted, maliciously and racially prosecuted to show to especially the 60% malay muslim majority that the Indians have been punished for their alleged “demonstration” on 25-11-07.

    The News Straits Times in particular on the 7th and 8th of December maliciously did not publish the whole truth ie “Waytha Moorthy’s brother Uthayakumar had also told The New Paper in Singapore that he could not rule our violence if the demands of the Indian community were not met “(New Straits Time dated 8-12-07 page 6)

    What was maliciously deliberately and intentionally not published was that I and Hindraf have always maintained that we are committed and that we would only persue our struggle through legal and peaceful means following Ghandi’s peaceful and non violent “ahiesma” struggle.

    When asked by The New Paper reporter I expressed fears and concerns that the uneducated Indian masses who may not know of other avenues and having pushed to the wall may resort to violence which was more correctly reported in The Star on 7-12-07 but asserted once again that Hindraf on its part was committed to a legal and peaceful struggle. But this whole truth was never published by the New Straits Times.

    I hereby challenge the Prime Minister, Law Minister, Attorney General and the Inspector General of Police to within 24 hours to produce to me, the local and foreign print and electronic media at a press conference the alleged hard evidence of Hindraf’s link to terrorism and violence failing which I and Hindraf shall presume that the alleged evidence does not exist.

    I also challenge the aforesaid individuals to investigate and make public the real culprits who attacked and killed the 5 Indians and injured 100 over others in the Kg Medan racial attacks tragedy from 8-3-01 to 22-3-01.

    Also investigate the 1,000 over police reports against the various UMNO leaders and Malaysian authorities for the shoot to kill of hundreds of suspects and the mysterious deaths of hundreds in police custody (60% estimated to be Indians who only from 8% of the population) and hundreds of Indian “suspects unlawfully arrested, detained, beaten-up and tortured, hundreds of hindu temples demolished at the rate of one hindu temple in every three weeks and scores of hindu temples forced to relocate next to sewerage tanks.

    Kindly also investigate the truth of my 1,000 over letters, memorandums, appeals protest notes scores of Civil Suits etc to the Prime Minister Ministers, Attorney General, Inspector General of Police, Chief Ministers and the other Malaysian authorities about the racism, marginalization and permanent colonialism of the Indians in Malaysia which only proves Hindraf’s track record of legal and peaceful struggle and Hindraf being no where near terrorism and/or violence. (Published in http://www.policewatchmalaysia.com)

    I fear for me and my family’s safety and ask for 24 hours police protection.

    Uthayakumar a/l Ponnusamy

    copyright policewatchmalaysia.com Contact: 03-22825241

  43. #43 by motai on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 10:05 pm

  44. #44 by cancan on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 10:20 pm

    The judiciary and police are under Umno.
    So,what kind of justice do we expect?

    They can always twist and turns the facts to suit their taste.

    We cannot fight them in our own turf,so we fight them outside ie.internationally.

    Hindraf has laid the groundwork.

  45. #45 by Furiousity on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 10:32 pm

    Well dont except to get much of this demonstration as we all know…who is in power.

    for as long that is in regime…expect this to occur pretty frequently

    and linking hindraf with terrorists… its just a simple mind game by them to divert the supporters away from hindraf


  46. #46 by negarawan on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 10:32 pm

    Khairy leads a violent anti-American rally to threat Condaleeza, Hismamuddin leads a violent rally and burns the American flag, why didn’t the police put a ban on their rallies? Why weren’t they charged similarly? Why weren’t they arrested? Why didn’t the government denounce them? These smacks of double standards. What UMNO can do, others cannot do. This is Malaysian Apartheid!

  47. #47 by Furiousity on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 10:41 pm

    Perhaps Mr Sami Velu need to come out and say wat he has up his sleeves.

    Nothing is heard from him and i dun like the fact that he says MIC has done alot of things for the Indians.But i dont see anything that benefits the indian in long term.

    From what i have read on the net and heard from friends internationally, it doesnt seem that malaysia have any good rep so how is the protests going to affect the country when there is nothing to be turnished? funny eh

  48. #48 by 1eyecls on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 10:59 pm

    if the govt. is using weapons to confront protestors,nothing much we can do,even 5 million rally would be turned down!

    We have to ask for help from other country,our govt. is so arrogant,wild and barbarian,actually Malaysia is a small nation,we dont have to be so proud of ourselves(especially the Malays),when more things happen,we know how to judge a govt. whether is good or bad!

    From the way the govt. handles the issues,it’s obviously bias to 1 side,but they have the majority supports,so what are we the minority going to do?

    Unless the BN divides,i strongly urge everyone to leave MCA,MIC,GERAKAN,BERSATU,PPP……when they have less members,maybe their mouth wont open so big!


  49. #49 by dawsheng on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 11:18 pm

    If today we let Hindraf, who is also our fellow Malaysians suffocated and die a premature death, it is us that gives up our rights to defend ourselves against the tyranny of UMNO. What we witness is not how strong UMNO is or can be, we are seeing how divided we are as some of us refused to stand up for what is right out of fear, this is our weakness. no Malaysians should treats the Hindraf’s demands as just for Indians, didn’t the rest of us also want the same thing? Look, today’s suppression towards Hindraf is suppression towards all Malaysians.

  50. #50 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 11:20 pm

    “Holy Cow! All those suffering from Dandruff will be detained under the ISA?” k1980

    Be carefull with what you say!

    You may fall in the way of the Cross! To some ‘cows’ are objects of veneration and holy but to some others it is akin to praying to an idol. They may start getting rid of the cows along with other religious symbols. We don’t want that!

    Without the cows how could we then speak of “talking until the cows come home”.

  51. #51 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 11:37 pm

    “For the main stream media they have tighter control, ofcourse, using it against the people and manipulate the less informed, just believe the opposite of what is announced and we’ll get the truth, simple…” JackyChan

    Spoken well!

    Continue reading the papers if only to know what the BN run government wants us to believe. We are not naive as to believe everything that we read. Manipulation of the “less informed” is only manipulation if you allow it to be.

    Only the less mentally endowed would have others think to read is to believe.

  52. #52 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 11:41 pm

    “The judiciary and police are under Umno. So,what kind of justice do we expect?” cancan

    UMNO justice?

  53. #53 by AsIseeit on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 11:44 pm

    The govt is afraid of a new dimension entering into the scenario – the international dimension in addition to the internet media. This will be detrimental to their interests.

    Of course, they are also worried about the next elections; hence PM is already on an “election spree” to do damage control and garner support. The demonising of Hindraf as terrorists is to frighten the Malays to unite under UMNO. I am not surprised that the govt machinery whether through the mainline media or other channels will want to put fear into the Malays about losing their benefits and rights and all. Also I am not surprised that we will be told that there is “evidence” for the terrorist links.

    You can hear the mainline media continuing to demonise and frightening the public. Then, appeal to May 13 is next as it has always been in UMNO’s agenda. Hence, Kua Kia Song’s book on May 13 seems to be true about UMNO power-brokers being behind May 13.

    But I don’t think that the govt want a May 13 today. They may shout about it, even threaten, but they won’t want it. Why? Another such May 13 will affect Malay commercial interest greatly losing hundreds of millions each day. In fact, with the Indian poor, I don’t think they are worried about May 13. They do not have much to lose anyway! Further, Chinese interest will take their money out and also the foreign funds will stay out for an even longer period. Then what sort of development and progress will we have?

    So, we need to stand up for the rights of others to speak even when we may not agree fully. It is the making of a more civilised society that we need to work towards.
    We need to ask the govt to produce solid evidence for the Sedition charges against Hindraf. But at the end of the day, I am afraid that what Tun Suffian, former Lord President had to say may come true, “I won’t want to be tried under the present judiciary, especially if I am innocent!”

  54. #54 by Furiousity on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 11:56 pm

    Wat are the chances of BN losing the next election? 1 to none? and i wonder why

  55. #55 by takkan_hilang_india_didunia on Saturday, 8 December 2007 - 11:58 pm

    I pray and hope that what happened in Sri Lanka will never happen in Malaysia. UMNO leaders needs some refreshments on the history of why the LTTE resorted to violent acts in Sri Lanka. One of the main issue in Sri Lanka was that Tamilians ( the minority) were also imposed quota for entering the local universities. There were also many other ways in which the ruling party in Sri Lanka resorted to discriminating the Tamilians that resulted in them(Tamilians) taking the violent means to retaliate. Although I’m not in favor at all for the ways of the LTTE, but one wonders how long can a minority group who’s being discriminated wait and hope things will improve. Gandhi’s words were true 50 years ago and will also be true in the future,”An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind”.
    This is the point I’m trying to make: I’m not sure how long the Indians in Malaysia can tolerate the discrimination by the Malaysian government. But there is a possibility that a group may resort to violence to take root in Malaysia. History shows that minorities who are discrimninated or marginalized often resorted to violence in order to seek justice. Once again, I hope and pray that such a situation will never happen in Malaysia.
    Malaysians who are non-Malays need to oppose the discrimination internally. Be creatively discontented with the situation in Malaysia. Be critical in the way we look at things. Let’s not give in. Like Gandhi’s, let us contemplate and meditate upon the bright future of our childrens. I welcome our Malay brothers to join hands with us to reject this discrimination in order to avoid violent incidents.

  56. #56 by cheng on soo on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 12:29 am

    just curious, if any one here have any link with Osama, Fatah, Hamas, Abu Sayaf, Taliban etc, will he be labeled as terrorist?

    Another 13 May, it is a big ? if anyone really wan one in 2007 or 2008, the implication, repercussion is much bigger than 1969, it will also affect those superior leaders and their superior subjects greatly (money wise etc) n will take a long long time to recover (if ever). 2008 n 1969 simply cannot compare lah! world is different now lah! oledi FDI is decreasing lah! No FDI = what ? just figure out yrself lah !

  57. #57 by chgchksg128 on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 12:48 am

    Hindraf analysis and Bangkok post columnist comment

  58. #58 by Short-sleeve on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 12:50 am

    We need to stand together as Malaysians. United, we have a chance.

  59. #59 by ALtPJK on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 12:53 am

    “Justice must not only be done but must be seen to be done”. So goes the cliche cry among many an aggrieved and neutral party alike. It must be in an almost similar altruistic posture that the AAB administration is trying to portray itself in staking its claim to the legitimacy of pressing ‘attempted murder ‘ charges against the 26 Hindraf protestors .

    The question of legitimacy, however, begins to pale in comparison to the hoopla and hypocrisy surrounding the heavy-handedness of its conduct in pressing charges against the 26 protestors. That the AG himself being present at the Sessions Court proceedings to lay charges of ‘attempted murder ‘ have led to allegations of an unwarranted bearing of the fullest possible weight to intimidate and influence the court. This is in stark contrast to his conspicuous absence in the far more significant Atlantunya murder case, which the public is now very concerned of its decreasing currency in the light of recent events. In the eyes of many it is the small fry they are after while letting the big sharks roam free.

    The rather belated and excessive charges of attempted murder, which in itself took even many neutrals by surprise, coupled with the objecting to the grant of bail in a court presided by a judge sufficiently inept to refer to a charge as an offence have made the whole episode reeking of conspired intention of revenge.

    No sooner than one could come to the conclusion that ‘there must be a prawn behind the stone’ comes the latest allegation linking Hindraf to a terrorist group. Part of the blame, tough, can be attributed to the wording of Hindraf’s memorandum. However, with the long line beginning from the upper echelon of the administration echoing this allegation, many wonder if such a move is a sign of desperation or a calculated taunt to further forment the situation. In either case there is the dreaded and draconian ISA at the disposal, even promised by the PM himself when he arrived home at the end of a month of lively activities which are at odds with his passive and sleepy pace.

    The use of ISA, however beneficial albeit myopically for short term expediency, has its attendant ills too. The fabric of Malaysian society, already torn and crumpled as a result of decades of race-based policies, takes another battering. Some can argue that it cannot be any more worse. But in a globalised world, where most human activities are deeply intertwined, resorting to such measures create ripples in neighbouring countries. Already marginalisation of certain groups of people in Malaysia have sparked
    interesting debates in the legislative bodies of nearby countries in the past and in more recent times. Both the government and the hapless but vociferous Malaysians have ‘traded’ warnings of each others actions in causing foreign investment drain in the continuing unhealthy climate. Regardless of whoever is right, the use of ISA will certainly drive investors to neighbouring countries who are now poised on gaining more ground if not already more competitive than Malaysia in world trade. Countries near and far would be raising eye-brows too being well aware that the intricately woven politically motivated affirmative action policies, tainted judiciary, mounting graft and the deceptively attained majority in the legislative body would be best kept under wraps by the indiscriminate use of ISA.

    So “Justice must not only be done but must be seen to be done” must be taken by the administration in the wider context of its treatment to the people of Malaysia, be it in policies, business, education or religion. In the modern world, deeds within a country, even as reclusive as Myanmar, can be seen from afar. Neglecting it would risk hastening its slide towards a ‘pariah’ status as every imaginable institution in the country is steadily becoming yet another ugly tentacle of the evil octopus of an administration that is bereft of transparency, honesty and truthfulness in its words and deeds.

  60. #60 by DarkHorse on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 1:08 am


    You’re spot on with your observations!

    “The demonising of Hindraf as terrorists is to frighten the Malays to unite under UMNO.”

    We know this has been their motive all along i.e. not so much to demonise the HINDRAF followers as to frighten the Malays into believing that their security lies with UMNO.

    “But I don’t think that the govt want a May 13 today. They may shout about it, even threaten, but they won’t want it. Why? Another such May 13 will affect Malay commercial interest greatly losing hundreds of millions each day”

    Astute observation!

    The situation is different today than in 1969. Malays are better off today than they were before and they don’t want to see the country plunge to new depths of racial discord and, God forbid, race riots. The UMNO leadership has more at stake today. Their leaders have invested a lot in the stability of this country over the last three or four decades. Their wealth depends on it. Political stability is their ‘pot of gold’ today.

    The BERSIH and HINDRAF rallies had they occurred in 1969 would have had different repercussions.

    Using the law to prosecute HINDRAF demonstrators rather than use the full force of the ISA and detain those accused without charge, shows some measure of restraint on their part. For as long as they play the game, however skewed the rules may be, then there is hope yet. The moment they turn to using the draconian law which is what the Internal Security Act is all about, then there is no hope.

    “We need to ask the govt to produce solid evidence for the Sedition charges against Hindraf.”

    The game they play is called by various names – “attempted murder” “terrorism” and “sedition” but there is a referee whose duty is to ensure that the game is played by the rules or at least appear to be played by the rules. We can expect them to try and skew the rules to their advantage but we must try and stop them.

    Imagine two gladiators in the pit. Both positioning to take advantage of the rules. Both have yet to strike the first blow and we are in the audience cheering one and not the other.

  61. #61 by Count Dracula on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 1:23 am

    I am here to suck blood. Any volunteers?

  62. #62 by pwcheng on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 1:26 am

    I really do not think anybody can fight UMNO in the local arena. The whole government machinery is under them and our last bastion of defense, i.e. the judiciary is heavily attacked in 1986 and now well under their control. The rapid rise of Zaki is a crystal clear testimony to the legend left behind by TDM.

    What happen to the verdict of the findings of the 3 stooges in relation to Lingam tape?: Too strong an evidence that they do not even dare to release the verdict and now playing with time to form the royal commission and this Hindraf issue is perfect for them to sidestep all the other issues, Lingam tape, PKFZ, ICPMC and etc etc. A perfect match and they are obviously making the best use of it and trying their best to blow it up, by hook or by crook (after all crooks are good at blowing up things)

    Here lies the dilemma, a nasty catch-22 situation for all Malaysian of non-Malay origin and non-UMNO Malay origin, where on all normal circumstances they will never listen to you, let alone “layan” you in all matters regarding any appeal. You will be so stressed up as you cannot turn to any one from the ruling party for help. Finally you will take it to the street and that is exactly what Bersih and the Bar Council did. I believe that those who took it to the street really had no choice as what comes out from the mouth of our de facto law minister can already snapped many law abiding and reasonable people who just wants justice and fairness. They want all the advantage to them and anything contrary he will just snap at it. That is already disgusting enough and makes the entire law abiding citizen get cheesed off with the government. I really believe Hindraf has no choice (for anybody who has undergone any dealing with UMNO or its government will know how Hindraf feels). When the last resort of taking it to the street is met with fearsome repulsion from the police what else can they do except to lobby for International help and now UMNO had cleverly twist and turn and make them look like traitors and terrorists and with their huge government linked machinery of the police, Attorney-General’s office and the media, and also knowing pretty well that the court is under their control ,they turned the whole story around and even our fair minded Sultan can get conned by them.

    That is UMNO and that is the true color of UMNO, a legend minted since TDM’s era. They have too much power and they have lost their conscience of how the poor and slighted are suffering. They are only thinking of how to put billions into their own pockets.

  63. #63 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 1:54 am

    Democracy is about the free expression of ideas and minds. When free expression is stultified by artificially created obstacles it has a way of finding itself out into the open – like water finding its own level.

  64. #64 by Colonel on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 2:13 am

    The Prime Minister says:

    “The Internal Security Act is an option. I will decide when the time is right”. (MALAYSIAKINI)

    Note he says when the time is “right” and not if to use or not to use the ISA on HINDRAF supporters. He should have used it by now. The only reason why he is hesitating is he is exploring other options because the UMNO leaders as opposed to ordinary Malays, has a lot to lose if riots break out – not necessarily race riots.

    No Sarawak Rangers and no Malay Regiment patrolling the streets. No curfew. I’m sure of that. I should know.

    The detention and trial of HINDRAF 31 is intended to allow a cooling off period.

  65. #65 by DiaperHead on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 5:02 am

    Some smart ass on the thread “Police should be charged with attempted murder” suggested that the way to free the 30 odd Hindraf supporters detained without bail awaiting trial, is to hold another rally to free them! Now how stupid is that??!

    Lawyers for the unregistered organization, all 17 learned members of the legal profession, are still arguing bail. If bail is going to be refused it will be refused according to the law. We wait. That is what we do!

    If they are charged with terrorism or sedition, then there must be evidence of some kind for it to go forward to trial. Not any evidence but the veracity of the evidence must be such that if unrebutted would point to the guilt of those accused.

    To quote Kit who says “…just because “somebody” had lodged a police report that Hindraf has contacts with LTTE” is not enough.

  66. #66 by DarkHorse on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 6:09 am

    “They have too much power and they have lost their conscience of how the poor and slighted are suffering. They are only thinking of how to put billions into their own pockets.” pwcheng

    Yes, there seems to be a disconnect between the UMNO leadership and grass roots. In case limkamput thinks it has to do with grass and roots, it doesn’t.

  67. #67 by takkan_hilang_india_didunia on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 6:57 am

    Lim Kit Siang proved to be an honourable statesman for Malaysia. His years of opposition against the government’s policies places him among the most suitable person to speak the truth. Perhaps the MIC leaders needs to take a course “Lim Kit Siang 101” to wake up or rise to the occasion.
    Let us be conscious and fully awake to the current happenings in the country. Be critical and discontented on the injustice shown towards chinese, indians, sikhs, eurasians, etc. Let’s deny a 2/3 victory for the ruling party. Let us not tolerate injustice any longer. Arise and awake to the occasion.

  68. #68 by the archer on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 7:46 am

    a possible panacea ? what are your thoughts yb kit…pls clarify
    go here

    yb kit…pls enlighten us on the possibility of a pas-dap marrying up. does that remain an elusive option? the way i see it, pas cannot push through any form of massive conversion of the country since even a joint dap-pkr-pas victory(if ever it happens in the future) would definitely not constitute a 2/3 majority with bn still lingering about in the background, so it would not be as easy for them to change the constitution.

  69. #69 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 8:09 am


    “But to me Hindu temples being relocated next to sewerage tanks -that is ethnic cleansing a la Malaysia. Every three weeks, a temple is demolished. If you don’t call it ethnic cleansing, what is it then? In Bosnia, you kill people. (But ethnic cleansing) a la Malaysia is worse because you are living and suffering on a day to day basis:” Uthayakumar.

    This I must say is a bit of a stretch. He is a lawyer and he should be more objective and more selective in the choice of words. Ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing. There is no such thing as ethnic cleansing a la Malaysia!

    Temples being demolished to make way for economic development or because it is sitting illegally on private land whose owner wants it out, does not make it ethnic cleansing. It is wrong. It is not fair. It is unjust. It is anything but ethnic cleansing.

    When asked about his application for asylum in the U.K. Uthayakumar has this to say:

    “I would have easily qualified for asylum..”

    It is not that easy to qualify. To qualify he has to show first that he is a refugee and he is a refugee persecuted on one of five statutory grounds based on religion, race, nationality, membership in a particular social group or political opinion. That is not all. He has to show he has a “well-founded fear of persecution” and the standard of proof is “more likely than not” which is close to the criminal standard of” proof beyond reasonable doubt”. It would be easier had he married his Malay girlfriend and sought asylum. Still he has to prove the marriage was genuine and not entered into mala fide. It is not easy even if you have the facts or truth on your side.

    “They smashed my car windscreen and I hit a lamp post and somebody pulled out a gun and pointed it at me. I had all the evidence.”

    The evidence shows criminal activities by person or persons unknown. It does not show persecution. If getting your car tyre slashed by an UMNO member is sufficient to constitute persecution, then we can expect the U.K. and the other countries, which are signatories to the United Nations Convention for Refugee Status, to be flooded by refugees in a blink of an eye!

    When asked about the six Indians killed and about a hundred injured in Kg. Medan, Uthayakumar has this to say:

    “I’ve made this allegation about genocide and ethnic cleansing seven years ago and I have repeated it many times…”

    In other words he is saying in effect that six killed and about a hundred constitutes genocide and ethnic cleansing!

    What he’s doing here is to distort and exaggerate – and that does not speak well of his leadership. It goes to his credibility as a leader who is desperately trying to tap international support for his cause. He must realize that ill or poor treatment of ethnic minorities is not unique to any one country. India is one of those countries which discriminate against its ethnic minorities. It is hypocrisy at its height for the Indian Prime Minister to express concern for the situation Tamil Hindus in Malaysia find themselves in when his government has ignored the plight of Hindus in neighboring Bangladesh.

    Our sympathy should go to the poor of all races. The problem it seems is more acute in Malaysia’s Indian community because according to him “when it comes to the poor, the Chinese poor they have their guilds, associations and they are taken care of. The Malay poor is taken care of by the government. Chinese control 50 percent of the business in this country, they own a certain amount of political clout, they own about 30 percent of the votes.”

    Here he is right.

    But naming the loosely organized and non-registered organization fighting for human rights of its members a “force” and then making references to a Tamil terrorist organization fighting for a separate state in Sri Lanka has made HINDRAF vulnerable to government allegation that it has links or is quoting support including support from such organizations for its cause.

    I blame its leaders for the suffering they have brought on the 31 now detained without bail, and their families. Their families have had to suffer. The government would be well advised to look at the problem of detention without bail from the humanitarian angle and after seeing their families conditionally release them on bail. That would defuse the problem – perhaps even recover some of the goodwill lost.

  70. #70 by budak on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 8:39 am

    where is Samy Veloo…?

    discussing deal to link-up Hindraf with LTTE…
    or discussing deal with Telekom to setup line to Sri Lanka…
    or laid under ground liao… ???

  71. #71 by k1980 on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 9:32 am

    where is Sammie Velloo?

  72. #72 by cheng on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 10:43 am

    I thought our ex-PM, then Dato Seri Dr. M once said, the Palestinians are blowing up themselves because they are marginalized?
    People are marginalized so that they becomes terrorists per Dr. M observation?
    Or, after Dr. M said that, people “take the initiatives” to become terrorists?
    LTTE are terrorists ??? Not pejuang kebebasan berani mati ?
    Ah, depends on which side you belong to… yes, rejim pengganas / penceroboh Kuala Lumpur / Putrajaya.

  73. #73 by Bigjoe on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 11:12 am

    I just want to point out again that in the original Hindraf memo to the British, the term “ethnic cleansing” was couched in double qoutes, recognizing the term used is a bit different than what is more popularly known and associated with Bosnia etc.

    The term was was used to frame the issue in a certain context and correctly so.

    Hindraf is obviously putting a spin to their cause and issue but what campaign does not?

    The danger now is that due to the political implication to UMNO, they may be out of control in trying to contain the issue. I don’t believe that even in the heartland the majority of people think Hindraf are terrorist but UMNO spin-doctoring is putting fear into them.

    What is more scary to me, other than a few like Zaid Ibrahim, there is overwhelming lack of understanding of the real need to deal with the issue. The apathy to take for granted legitimate grieveance even recognized by the PM initially, is hardly heard.

    It does not bode well for the long term unity of this country. It leads me to wonder, if NEP is extended beyond 2020, what the consequences are. I believe its dangerous..

  74. #74 by hutchrun on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 11:30 am

    The Govt. has in the past denied any malaysian link to the LTTE. The LTTE are Ceylonese Tamils. With the Govt`s admission now, it now begs the question of this involvement of Ceylonese Tamils in malaysia with their brethren in Sri Lanka. Ceylonese tamils in malaysia generally look down on Tanils from India, and even marriages are not considered between the two.

    Perhaps the Govt`s admission will now pave the way for investigations into the Ceylonese tamils – esp. Ananda Krishnan. Or will the govt also preempt such investigations esp. since a yacht was presented to the PM.

  75. #75 by sheriff singh on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 12:10 pm

    Where is Samy Velly?

    He’s in Switzerland solving his Dandruff problem.

  76. #76 by dawsheng on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 12:27 pm

    Why is one of my comment which I posted last night is now completely disappeared?

  77. #77 by mendela on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 1:04 pm

    This UMO-led Gomen is a terrorist Gomen caused it has contacts with Abu Sayak, with earlier Taliban-led Gomen, with North Korean Kim’s Gomen, with PLO, and many other “terorrist group” or terrorist-linked Gomens.

    It is 1 million times more terrorists-related than the Hindraf!

    This stupid Gomen is just bankrupt of ideas! Total stupidity! Air-heads!

  78. #78 by hutchrun on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 1:05 pm

    dawsheng: That`s a moderator at work (maw) :) I lost 2 posts.
    By the way here`s an interesting letter at malaysiakini:

    No ‘final solution’ ethnic cleansing but…
    A Keen Observer | Dec 7, 07 5:24pm
    I write in response to the vigorous denials by ruling politicians and some Malaysiakini readers towards Hindraf’s claims of ‘ethnic cleansing’.

    Societies do not leap from being non-discriminatory and egalitarian to the outright killing and extermination of ethnic minorities overnight. It is an evolutionary process that starts in small steps.

    The initial phase is usually innocuous. It starts off with seemingly “noble” intentions including positive discrimination in favour of the group in power on various justifications such as socio-economic restructuring. However, the rule of unintended consequences usually means that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    Once the perpetrators are allowed to get away with the initial measures, they can take it to the next level, including:

    1. Restrictions on educational, employment and business opportunities for minority groups

    2. Restrictions on language, cultural and religious freedoms on minority groups (including restrictions on the building of places of worship and recent calls to remove crosses from Christian schools by a local politician pandering to his religious constituency)

    3. Encouraging the migration or destruction of the intelligentsia, including independent media, who are usually the first to oppose such policies

    4. Ethnic or race tagging when dealing with government agencies for example, the insistence that citizens must declare their race in government forms and policies

    In more advanced phases of this virulent condition, symptoms can include:

    1. Ethnic or religious profiling in law enforcement

    2. Complete domination of the government civil service and armed forces by the dominant power’s group, beyond its population proportions in the general community

    3. The creation of underclasses and ‘ghetto-ed’ minorities

    4. Outright religious persecution

    5. Forced religious conversions

    6. Vilification and demonisation of ethnic and religious minorities

    7. The destruction of minority groups’ places of worship

    8. Destruction of minority groups’ businesses

    The Hitler- or Balkan-style “final solution” of outright killing and ethnic extermination usually takes years if not decades to happen. Ethnic cleansing does not require conscious planning by its perpetrators. The baser human tendency to divide our world view into “us” and “them” is enough to do the job. All it needs are populist or demagogue politicians who appeal to our false sense of racial patriotism (such as keris-waving politicians) and superiority.

    Many ordinary German survivors of the Second World War struggled to come to terms with how they were foolishly-led by the Nazi regime into perpetrating some of the worst crimes against their fellow citizens. The ordinary German citizenry certainly did not start the 1930s with the outright ambition to rid the world of inferior races including Gypsies, same-sex couples and Jews. But by the end of 1945, over 20 million people perished as a result of the war, of which six to eight million were victims of race-hatred killings).

    Yes, there is no ethnic cleansing of the Indian community in the sense of a “final solution” where outright killing occurs, as some of Malaysiakini readers have correctly pointed out.

    However, no one rules out that the current and previous administrations’ policies, unwittingly or not, can become precursors to more advanced phases of ethnic cleansing. In fact, the political power base of the past and present administrations are based on the toxic twin ideologies of ‘Ketuanan Melayu’ and Islam ideology. It is extremely unlikely that the present administration can undo any of these policies without undermining its very own political power.

    Hence, it is understandable why Hindraf has made these “outrageous” claims. When the final solution arrives, it is too late. Just ask the surviving African Sudanese refugees in Darfur or the Tibetan exiles today. It is too late to ask the hundreds of thousands of Tutsis who were killed in the Rwandan genocide, and the Bosnian and Croats killed in the Balkan wars. It is certainly too late to ask the millions of Jews, Gypsies and other minority groups killed by the Nazis in the Second World War.

  79. #79 by mendela on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 1:09 pm

    Our “mainstream” media is more currupted than the North Koreans’.

    How can we expect our kids to compete globally when there are brainwashed daily by lies, lies and more lies.

    Ours MS media is worst than North Korean great and infamous propaganda machines now. Plain lies, nothng but lies!

  80. #80 by hutchrun on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 1:37 pm

    Sigh. Time to move on. So far 3 posts deleted.

  81. #81 by AnakTiriMalaysia on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 3:37 pm

    Link to terrorist?

    Was there any bombs found? Was there any suicide bombers involved?

    That is unfounded allegation….as good as saying that UMNO is believed have link with ABU SAYAFF, ……..JEMAAH ISLAMIAH ….and the SOUTHERN THILAND terrorist….

  82. #82 by pwcheng on Sunday, 9 December 2007 - 5:02 pm

    When somebody just lodged a report on Hindraf as a terrorist group, they quickly jump on it and framed charges on “hearsay” but when hundreds of reports are lodged against the corrupted officials of the government, they always say it is very difficult to charge them on such flimsy reports without any solid evidence. Don’t you think we have heard of this thousand and one times?

    We really have to think hard whether this government is for the people or for themselves.

  83. #83 by Count Dracula on Monday, 10 December 2007 - 3:58 am

    Disappearing postings?

    I think it is the ‘moderating’ program put in place because of the out-of-control outbursts by that limkamput guy, malfunctioning. The ‘missing’ postings simply ricocheted or bounced into remote corners of cyber space and take time to return to earth! So be patient.

  84. #84 by wits0 on Monday, 10 December 2007 - 5:51 am

    Hutch: “Yes, there is no ethnic cleansing of the Indian community in the sense of a “final solution” where outright killing occurs, as some of Malaysiakini readers have correctly pointed out………………It is extremely unlikely that the present administration can undo any of these policies without undermining its very own political power.”

    Spot on! The harsh and ugly reality that more PC crowd finds it hard to say so clearly enough. The twin Swords of Damocles that’s there, wrought by Umno and selfishly abetted by the component parties in BN to everyone’s increasing detriments eventually.

  85. #85 by Count Dracula on Monday, 10 December 2007 - 9:42 pm


    Nice post! Yours bounced into orbit and only now appeared after days!

    “…steadily becoming yet another ugly tentacle of the evil octopus ..”

    Hmmm…sounds like limkamput is among us.

  86. #86 by DiaperHead on Tuesday, 11 December 2007 - 2:20 am


    Stop making misleading statements to inflame feelings already raw. It is typical of people like you and the likes of Uthayakumar and Moorthy to exaggerate and distort. What’s new??

  87. #87 by ktteokt on Tuesday, 11 December 2007 - 9:36 am

    Terrorism is a new tactic of the BN government to bring in charges against anyone whose act does not fit into any of the Malaysian Acts of Parliament, including the ISA and OSA.

  88. #88 by ALtPJK on Tuesday, 11 December 2007 - 1:50 pm

    Count Dracula ,

    Yes, the post did not appear immediately, presumably on its parabolic trajectory, but I did see it appear about 5 hours later. My post did not include any profanities…hmmm don’t know why it should take such a route. But it’s OK, so long as I get to say my piece about the present administration.

    I have got nothing against ‘limkamput’, but ALtPJK is not him/her. Now, before I see you flash your canines I better run….

  89. #89 by ktteokt on Wednesday, 12 December 2007 - 8:34 pm

    Where is Samy Vellu? He is also Indian and Hindu too!

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