Although the Deputy Education Minister Datuk Noh Omar said in Parliament yesterday that the Ministry will not remove the cross and Christian statues from mission schools, I have received complaints on my blog of mission schools where the cross had been replaced in the school emblems, such as:
- St. David High School, Bukit Baru, Melaka, the cross had been replaced by a crown.
- Convent Girls School in Muar, Cross was replaced with a cresent moon on badge.
- Methodist Boys Secondary School, Kuala Lumpur
I call on the Education Minister, Datuk Hishammuddin Hussein to explain whether it is true that the cross in the school emblems in these schools have been removed and replaced.
In this connection, I call on Hishammuddin to give a statement to explain how many missions schools in the country have the cross in the school emblem replaced, together with a full list of the schools concerned and the relevant particulars on year of removal and why.
Hishammuddin should also explain whether the Education Ministry would have any objection if the cross and Christian statues are restored for mission schools where they had been replaced or removed.
#1 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 7:36 am
“Best to keep religion and politics separate”
Says who? UMNO?
Anybody has a copy of the Turkish Constitution? With separation of mosque and state, the minorities there were not spared the atrocities of genocide in the First World War.
It is best to leave God alone so He could work in peace.
#2 by dawsheng on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 7:41 am
26 Hindraf supporters charged with attempted murder
find out more at http://www.jeffooi.com
#3 by Justicewanted on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 8:01 am
What the BN lead government will do next????
Change the name of the mission schools….
#4 by pulau_sibu on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 8:21 am
Why the brothers and sisters can no longer be the guru besar in the missionary schools? i think they were the best grur besar in the history known to me.
#5 by Jeffrey on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 8:41 am
“….//….Hishammuddin should also explain whether the Education Ministry would have any objection if the cross and Christian statues are restored for mission schools where they had been replaced or removed…//…â€Â.
Why should he be even asked if Education Ministry has objections?
I don’t think he would give an answer.
His deputy Datuk Noh Omar had already clarified in Parliament that the Ministry would not remove the cross and Christian statues from mission schools.
This means that the Education Ministry acknowledges that any request, instruction or demand made to or pressure exerted on mission schools to remove the cross and Christian statues is bigotry and extremism.
The Ministry cannot officially support it. If the Ministry cannot support bigotry and extremism now, it cannot have reason to do so when it was perpetrated in the past.
For what is wrong now, as indirectly admitted by Nor, has got to be equally wrong when perpetrated in the past and if it was then wrong, then the situation caused by such a wrong cannot today be allowed to stand and remain and should be retrospectively addressed – and righted by counter measures at remedy and rectification.
The mission schools themselves, taking the cue from Noh Omar’s stand should proceed to restore such crosses and Christian statues removed in the past. The alumni should call for and finance such restoration.
Such a move is to restore the position to status quo before bigotry and extremism forced the change ie removal of crosses and Christian statues.
To not restore and revert to status quo – to acquiesce with the earlier change wrought by bigotry and extremism to remain and stand – is to indirectly condone and concede to them.
One cannot resist “creeping†bigotry and extremism by merely saying they stop here and forget about what mileage they have gained in the past.
I say you have to push them backwards, reverse their gains, subtract their advancement, make a statement, and this can only be done by unilateral restoration by mission schools of such of their crosses and Christian statues removed in the past, without asking Hishammuddin. What is there to ask when the situation is self explanatory from Noh’s statement?
The only thing we need ask the Education Minister is that he would not renege on his commitment to provide the customary aid to mission school covered under Ninth Malaysia Plan by reason of the crosses and Christian statues being restored.
#6 by boh-liao on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 8:45 am
Umno and BN will soon ban muslims from flying kites and travelling by aeroplanes, two items which are haram.
Kite – there is a big cross there for all to see in the sky; no propaganda please and so no flying kites.
Aeroplane – terrible, terrible, that’s a giant cross again up in the sky; no way people should be inside planes, especially going to the Middle East for religious purpose.
#7 by budak on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 8:53 am
a bowl of fishball noodles without fish…
is like a fishball noodles we can find sweetness, freshness when it’s served… but UMNOs like to eat mock-up fishball rather than real fish flesh… are they trying to tell us they’re more alim or ZALIM…???
dont judge the book by its cover…!
especially UMNO’s book, has its own agenda and motives…
Uneducated Monkeys with No brain…
#8 by KL Dude on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 8:53 am
They were fast to retract the statement they made, fearing another ala Hindraf will take place… Probably called “Christraf” this time… he he he.
The PM may be the only one seem to be cautious and sensitive when it comes to religion tolarency in this country but the problem is always coming from his half past six ‘machais’ who are never ending dumb, shallow minded and never think of the consequences of what they are about to say before they talk.
#9 by smeagroo on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 8:56 am
# zack Says:
December 5th, 2007 at 01: 55.52
what the fuss? wherever you go in this world there is going to be preferences made …religiously, politically, ethnically and whatever … in Chine, in India, In American … everywhere … those in the minority have to learn to be part of the society and in the case of Malaysia … it happens to be islam, malays and UMNO ….. so what can the rest do but to accept that facts. The cross issue is an old one and for a highly respected LKS to bring it out is like opening an oudated sardine can …. we just throw it away ….. non issue and no fuss about it … its not like Christianity is ban here …. malaysian are free to profess any religion .. of course there are isolated cases like the lina joy but it must be treated as such. …..
Zack,
This is exactly what the Umno goons wanted you guys to do. When they bring religion into the picture the Malays will once again vote for BN or UMNO no matter how corrupted they may be. It doesnt matter if it goes again your religion or mine but just as long as the rights are protected, hey who cares if the guy is a devil.
The rest of us here are merely asking for the real freedom to practice our faith. Yes, for now we still hv the freedom but it is slowly eroding day by day. First they take away the symbols and statues. Then what will be next? We are already facing problems in securing proper sites to build our places of worship. Are you gonna tell me to get over with it as long as we can still worship in shoplots and maybe build a tokong on the road side? OR are we gonna be desensitized as well?
Tolerance goes both ways. It doesnt matter who the majority and minority are. That is submission and persecution if you ask me.
So are we falling into the trap of these 2 goons who brought the matter up? We hope that the bigger agenda wont be lost. That is to bring down these goons.
Are you with us for a better Malaysia?
#10 by Jeffrey on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 9:08 am
The only conceivable impediment to the suggestion in my last posting (which has not yet appeared in blog at this moment) is that principals of missionary schools, who had been pressured in the past to remove crosses and religious artifacts, would not dare to take remedial action to restore status quo without directive from the Ministry of Education.
If Deputy Education Minister Datuk Noh Omar were sincere in the Ministry’s stand, ask him to procure the Ministry to issue a Surat Perkeliling Ikhtisas (SPI) imediately to the State Education Departments and Miissionary Schools to do such acts as they deem necesary to restore the crosses, religious artifacts and statutes they were misguidedly in the past misdirected to remove due to bigotry and extremism!
#11 by Bigjoe on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 9:16 am
Do anyone believe that except the most liberal Malay-Muslim, most Malay-Muslim care that Christians symbols and services are removed/restricted? The truth is the large part of them feel assured that it is, maybe slightly guilty but care? No way…
Muslims especially in this country are thought early on its their duty to glorify their religion and if somethings gets in their way here and there, too bad…
Why do we go talking as if there is a ignorant liberal tradition of the old Sultanate still exist even in the Kampungs? That they have not been replaced by the hegemonistic attitude that finds significant unjust casualties acceptable?
I am all for figthing for principles but pretension no…
#12 by cheng on soo on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 9:45 am
Add to boh liao say, then Bolehsia air force must do away with all their army jet or get some expert to design fighter plane without the wings or with 2 , 3 pairs of wings so it don’t look like a cross !
MAS must also review the shape of aeroplanes they fly, BIG CROSS IN Bolehsia Sky, How can?
#13 by Jong on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 9:55 am
Only “Islamic cars” allowed on Malaysian roads? Check this out.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7089707.stm
#14 by cheng on soo on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 10:47 am
LIMA must be stopped, how can they show many crosses in the sky? All foreign airlines must NOT come too, unless they changed the shape of wings of their planes to make the planes dont look like cross in the sky.
Many people in the country are very concerned about this ‘cross’ thing mah!
#15 by sheriff singh on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 11:06 am
We must always be careful of what we say or do in case we offend others. What appears to be a joke can have dire consequences.
Charges filed against Indian tycoon over Sikh joke
LUCKNOW (India) – INDIAN police on Tuesday filed criminal charges against one of the country’s wealthiest executives after his telephone company circulated a joke equating Sikhs with donkeys.
Anil Ambani, who holds a major stake in the country’s second-biggest private telephone firm Reliance Communications, is accused of hurting religious sentiment.
‘We have registered a case of causing hurt to religious sentiment against Anil Ambani and Reliance Communications,’ police inspector Raja Singh said in northern Lucknow city, where a complaint was registered late Monday.
The charges came after members of the Sikh faith, centred in India’s northern Punjab state, were equated with donkeys on a joke service provided by Reliance Communications.
The offence carries a maximum prison sentence of six months.
Reliance Communications, which has more than 30 million mobile users, insisted it was not an error committed by the company but regretted the circulation of the controversial joke.
‘The jokes are provided by a third-party vendor to the subscribers of telecom operators and the vendor is responsible for the content provided,’ Reliance said in a statement.
‘The vendor has already apologised… and while regretting the vendor’s mistake we are tendering our own sincere apologies for any hurt to the sentiments of our Sikh brothers,’ it added. — AFP
#16 by hutchrun on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 11:15 am
`Islamic cars` by proton is not a joke neither is banning of crosses.
My Singh friend says that the Sikh temple in Shah Alam was first approved and then banned.
#17 by undecidedmoron on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 11:23 am
The churches will take these uncivilized issues as a test for faith.
They will do nothing. – by ifhavesomethingtosay
I must certainly agree with you. They will say that all they have to do is pray coz they are frighten. i am not being prejudice, i am a christian myself. I am just so fed up of majority of the christians in this country that wants to be overly spiritual. so for this, i doubt the NECF will ever do anything. they have been quiet for lots of things that has been happening in christian community what the government has done to us, but they will remain quiet. coz they are scared but they term it as that is God’s will, we just have to perservere. they are just chickens
#18 by 5xmom on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 11:42 am
YB Lim, It’s my first time commenting.
My two older sons study at the St. Xavier Institution. The huge cross is still there. But Bro. Paul, the principal will complete his mission next year. And that will be the last of the mission brother. I just hope that the school can maintain its current good standard so that my two younger sons can have a decent education in the last few good schools in Penang.
#19 by shaolin on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 11:57 am
The true Christians should not in the first place tolerate
the removal of CROSSES in missionary schools emblems.
They should stage protests and peaceful walks, street demonstrations during and after their Saturday MASS in
towns throughout all Malaysian towns. They Must not be
afraid and feel threatened to come out in groups to show
their bad feelings caused by the little Napoleons, the
Muslim Fanatics, Islam Extremists and Fundamentalists!!
They MUST have FAITH in their GOD, voice their HOLY
Grievances against Muslim Fanatics of disturbing the
normal operation of their RELIGION, Rights and FREEDOM
to embrace any one RELIGION of DIVINE ORIGIN…!!!
ALLAH too WILL stop all BAD MELAYU to go to HEAVEN!!!
#20 by burn on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 12:42 pm
BN UMNO true colors have prevail.
what a pity, other BN components just keeping mum about it!
#21 by burn on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 12:49 pm
wonder, what will be next!
#22 by wits0 on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 1:15 pm
This issue cannot be regarded as solved just because a couple of Gomen minister or two says that this process has stopped in view of the coming GE.
The removed symbols need to be restored unhindered into their original state and a clear undertaking must be made that no such infringement will be allowed or tolerated in the future.
IOW, offensive religious fanaticism cannot be permitted to be upheld as a supposed virtue. Bad pernicious culturing as laissez-faire.
#23 by wits0 on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 1:16 pm
Correction :
“..a couple of Gomen minister or so say..”
#24 by justice88 on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 1:23 pm
The removal of crosses from the school emblems isn’t really an important. What is more important is that there is freedom to have faith-based organisations in school and the freedom not to be forced into following rituals of a religion that you are not affiliated to. One very good example is Convent Light Street in Penang. A few years back, ALL STUDENTS were forced to recite Muslim prayers during morning assemblies. I know this because my sister had experienced it. Ironically, it is a Convent school. They only stopped the ritual when many parents objected. I was from St. Xavier’s Institution and we were never forced to sing or pray(just forced to for Negaraku, Penang state song and the school song :D). The principal of St. George’s Girls’ School banned the formation of a Christian Fellowship on school grounds. I know this because a close friend of mine tried to start one but to no avail. They should be preserving the heritage of the school as a way of saying ‘Thank you’ because they are one of the first education providers in the country. The MPs for Parit Sulong and Sri Gading should be suspended for trying to incite a religious rift. This might be damaging to the country. The ISA should be involved!
Article 12 (2)
Every religious group has the right to establish and maintain institutions for the education of children in its own religion, and there shall be no discrimination on the ground only of religion in
any law relating to such institutions or in the administration of any such law; but it shall be lawful for the Federation or a State to establish or maintain or assist in establishing or maintaining
Islamic institutions or provide or assist in providing instruction in the religion of Islam and incur such expenditure as may be necessary for the purpose.
#25 by Cinapek on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 1:48 pm
The irony of all this is that many non Christian parents realises that many of these originally mission schools has a good reputation and wants to send their children there. Whether due to sense of tradition or the environment, they continue to do well today. To destroy their heritage would be to destroy the good they are doing.
I am not Christain but my daughter goes to a convent school. We have our own faith and we ensure our child is well imbued with our faith so that they can practise our own religion with little fear of being influenced by other religions. But if at the end of the day she feels she wants to convert to another faith for sincere reasons, we have no problems with that either.
There is no compulsion to send your children there. If you disagree with the school’s heritage, then send your child elsewhere. Similarly, are you going to ask the SRJKs to change the nature of their school to suit students of other races who chose to enrol in these schools of their own free will?
#26 by philcp on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 2:44 pm
the cross on MBSSKL emblem was removed years ago. probably about btw 2 – 3 decades ago.
#27 by Plaintruth on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 3:05 pm
The Mission build school King George V School in Seremban had its cross remove from all trace in the year 1977.
The government is sinister and had the evil plan to get rid of all trace of other religions. This shows how tolerance these UMNOPUTRA are.
When I was in Lower six class the cross on the school T shirt became a “T”. Then a year later the cross completely gone.
Today the majestic school building is completely converted into a malay domininated school. It is on the intersection to Rasah and Rahang. What a shame and trajedy the government had done. Where is the UMNOPUTRA conscience??????????
#28 by k1980 on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 3:14 pm
After this, islamic cars, motorbikes, buses, lorries, bicycles (with special features like a compass pointing to Mecca and a dedicated space to keep a copy of the Koran and a headscarf) only to be allowed on malaysian roads?
Then, all buildings including residential premises can only be built facing Mecca?
#29 by TheWrathOfGrapes on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 3:46 pm
/// burn Says:
December 5th, 2007 at 12: 49.10
wonder, what will be next! ///
wonder, whaC will be nexC!
(don’t dot your “i”s or cross your “t”s and replace your “t”s with Crescents “C”s.)
#30 by midnitelily on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 4:43 pm
actually, it’s not just the crosses and symbols. i’m not sure about the other mission schools, but i’m sure all of them have their own ethos and unique identity i.e. names of the sport houses, an english school song (which might ve a reference to God; will these politicians find fault in that too?), the school colours. my alma mater’s alumni has been running a petition for a few years now to appeal to the education ministry to let us keep our ethos and identity.
it’s these things that teaches us to be loyal and proud of who we are, regardless of race. it kept us united, regardless of social status. & like YB mentioned in parliament, a lot of prominent figures in the country had their foundation in mission schools. it feels like Malaysia does not treasure history or heritage at all. at least, not in giving value to diversity.
even though this issue has been brought up off and on over the years (to win over muslim voters maybe?), it feels like it is worse today than yesterday. now, i wonder if Badawi denying that our country is not practising “ethnic cleansing” can still say so, because doesn’t tearing down temples, and calling for the destruction of crosses make it feel like small actions that lead to it? doesn’t the Malay proverb go… “Sikit-sikit, lama-lama jadi bukit” ?
where are our leaders taking us? where is their transparency? if they want Malaysia declared officially as an Islamic country, then say so. don’t do all of this in the guise that we still do have “freedom of religion” when we are made to suppress ourselves into a tiny corner.
#31 by johan_my on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 7:57 pm
The emblem for King George V school is St George slaying a dragon. The old badge just had KGV printed on a blue background. About 1968 or 1969, the then headmaster change the badge with St George with the red cross in the background. (The school song was also composed during this period and the school swimming pool was built in 1969.) That got replaced with the V after I left the school in 1973. I still have the old school badge with the cross.
You can read about this here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMK_King_George_V
What I would like to understand is why would the cross be taboo to muslims? They are not asked to subscribe to reason behind the cross. How does one go through life if every single religions icon is taboo?
#32 by patlu on Thursday, 6 December 2007 - 3:47 am
THANK YOU, YB Lim Kit Siang,
Thank you for following up on this in Parliament.
Everyone reading this blog,
Besides crosses and statues removed, please state in this blog, the identity and character changes made at your school. At Assunta Primary 1, please read the Petition: Respect the Ethos and Character of Mission Schools with more than 2,400 signatories to-date at http://www.petitiononline.com/assunta/petition.html
Please sign the petition online if you have not done so. All past students of mission schools and the public are also encouraged to sign the above Online Petition. State the year you left school and school attended. [B]A gentle reminder:[/B] Please do not flame at the online petition as we’ll be submitting to the relevant authorities again if need be. Flames will be deleted, positive and constructive comments are most welcomed.
Please forward this on.Simply because…
FIRST THEY CAME
First they came for the socialists,
and I did not speak out
because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left
to speak for me.
- Pastor Martin Niemöller (victim of the Nazis)
Assunta Spirit Alive!
Pat Lu
#33 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 6 December 2007 - 4:01 am
Why?? Because Muslims are easily crossed.
#34 by hermes on Thursday, 6 December 2007 - 7:32 am
Why do the non muslims continue to donate to the Red Crescent movement. I don’t ever since it changed from the RED CROSS. That is the problem with the non muslims. They do not have principles. The non muslims are not prepared to act in any way, except to kow tow, when their beliefs and rights are attacked, in this case ERASED.
#35 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 6 December 2007 - 10:20 am
There is no need to sign any petition. Let your vote speaks for itself. As a Malaysian you have a constitutional duty to get your name down on that list of voters, and then make that vote!
Have you registered to vote??
#36 by patlu on Friday, 7 December 2007 - 12:19 am
Hi hermes 07: 32.23.
What has SAVING LIVES to do with race or religion? Think about it.
Back to the topic, what have done done about it? Have you sent in your complaint or made a police report yet?
“Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Datuk Seri Nazri Abd Aziz said so far, he had yet to receive any complaints over Syed Hood’s remarks.” Gives me the impression he’s not going to do anything about the two MPs until someone makes a report.
Where to report, visit: http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=561471&view=findpost&p=14532752
#37 by undergrad2 on Friday, 7 December 2007 - 12:28 am
“undergrad2 …
your comment is in bad taste and to me is your way to insult Islam. The event in Sudan is very serious to us Muslim although you may not think so. Your joke is in bad taste …”
My comment is not a joke. Jailing somebody and then threatening to kill her, for naming a teddy bear is no joke. I was referring to the depths of Islamic extremism which is in a free fall.
This is the kind of thinking that today haunts Malaysia. Criminalizing the naming of the teddy bear as “Mohammed” is unthinkable to all right thinking Malay and Muslims in Malaysia.
Nobody really believes that naming a toy “Mohammed” is an insult to Islam and Muslims – not even the Sudanese and their leaders. The failure here is the failure of moderate Muslims all over the world to speak up.
#38 by patlu on Friday, 7 December 2007 - 12:31 am
undergrad2: 10: 20.50
“There is no need to sign any petition.”
So, just rant and rave on blogs, blame blame blame and assume problems will go away by casting vote in GE every 5 years, izit? Oh, better still, just leave it to YB Lim Kit Siang to do everything.
Hello, YB Lim not only need your votes lah. Stop the blame and tainting communities by the action of a few. Do something to help solve the problems and start the healing process to rebuild this nation.
#39 by patlu on Friday, 7 December 2007 - 3:33 am
hermes 07: 32.23
“Why do the non muslims continue to donate to the Red Crescent movement. I don’t ever since it changed from the RED CROSS.”
What has saving lives to do with race or religion? If one does not support Red Crescent aka Red Cross just because of the icon, we have lost our humanity. Please think about it.
Back to this topic, what is the affirmative action the public has taken regarding the two MPs? Has anyone filed complaints or police reports yet?
Where to report, visit http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=561471&view=findpost&p=14532752
#40 by undergrad2 on Friday, 7 December 2007 - 6:46 am
Patlu,
Young man, it’s OK to rant and rave and sign petitions (as if they do not already know) but if you don’t exercise your constitutional right to vote, nothing will change. Go cast that one vote for the Opposition in your constituency. That alone may not be able to bring about the ‘change’ we need but it at least you’d have given ‘change’ a chance.
#41 by undergrad2 on Friday, 7 December 2007 - 7:46 am
“Back to this topic, what is the affirmative action the public has taken regarding the two MPs? Has anyone filed complaints or police reports yet?” Patlu
How does filing police reports bring about ‘change’? There’s nothing wrong with filing police reports though. You’d be just adding to the paperwork of the policemen manning the desks at police stations. If at all, the practice of filing police reports gives the facade of democracy i.e. that you are free to walk into any police station and make a report against anybody – Prime Minister and IGP included. You will not be arrested for doing so. Non-citizens and tourists too can file reports. Are you expecting the two government MPs to be arrested for sedition?
Article 11 of our Federal Constitution guarantees the freedom of religion. Only the Malays do not have that freedom. Their freedom is freedom to practice Islam.
This drive, if it could be called that, of trying to gradually rid the country of non-Islamic symbols on public display – especially now that Malaysia has been declared ‘an Islamic state’ – is nothing new. It is symptomatic of the process of Islamization which is more than two decades old. What is new perhaps are the public outbursts by MPs in Parliament leading to the equally public uproar.
Can it be said that our constitutional right to practice our religion has been infringed because of the government policy of discouraging or not allowing too conspicous and too public a display of non-Islamic symbols?
Was a police report made against the PM who first issued a public statement that “Malaysia is an Islamic state”? Was a police report made against Abdullah Badawi when he too declared that “Malaysia is an Islamic state”? How does making such statements alone alter the secular nature of the state?
Does not making police reports against UMNO mean that we agree with the government and its policy Islamization of our institutions?
What matters finally is whether we as Malaysians who treasure racial unity and freedom would make that walk to the polling station to cast our vote. That is the only walk that matters finally.
#42 by buntal on Tuesday, 18 December 2007 - 5:45 pm
The MPs who are Christians keep quiet? I salute you, LKS! Oh ya, they don’t mind because they are not serious in their faith too. Need a prove? A simple example would be playing golf on Sunday instead of attending Sunday mass. If GOD is merciless, He can just take everything away from them in a second.
We’re now in the 21st century and we just had our 50th anniversary of independence. Why not preserve this blessings by living in harmony without raising sensitive issues that hurt may parties.