How many mission schools in the country have the cross removed from school emblem?

Although the Deputy Education Minister Datuk Noh Omar said in Parliament yesterday that the Ministry will not remove the cross and Christian statues from mission schools, I have received complaints on my blog of mission schools where the cross had been replaced in the school emblems, such as:

  • St. David High School, Bukit Baru, Melaka, the cross had been replaced by a crown.
  • Convent Girls School in Muar, Cross was replaced with a cresent moon on badge.
  • Methodist Boys Secondary School, Kuala Lumpur

I call on the Education Minister, Datuk Hishammuddin Hussein to explain whether it is true that the cross in the school emblems in these schools have been removed and replaced.

In this connection, I call on Hishammuddin to give a statement to explain how many missions schools in the country have the cross in the school emblem replaced, together with a full list of the schools concerned and the relevant particulars on year of removal and why.

Hishammuddin should also explain whether the Education Ministry would have any objection if the cross and Christian statues are restored for mission schools where they had been replaced or removed.

  1. #1 by kurakura on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 2:10 pm

    My school Anglo Chinese School Ipoh had its cross removed from the school emblem around 10 – 12 years ago.

    What are the overzealous people trying to so? I am in Singapore now. Stamford Raffles statues are still in the center of the central business district, colonial founded schools still have statues of their founders and of course crosses, roads still have historical names and yet the country is progressing on all fronts.

    Wake up and rectify the right things that matter.

  2. #2 by boh-liao on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 2:31 pm

    Next, all bakeries, beware, no hot cross buns. Hot crescent buns, yes.
    No ‘Cross My Heart’ song, novel, etc. – Have to change to ‘Crescent My Heart’.
    Santa Claus must dress in green, not red.

    AAB told TIME recently, “We are not a secular state, but neither are we a theocracy.” Ho, ho, ho ……….

  3. #3 by max2811 on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 2:32 pm

    The cross in the ACS Ipoh’s badge was removed in 1974. It started with the exercise books and then the school badge. I remembered we used to draw back the cross onto the badge. We were too young to know why. But then, whether there is a cross or not is not important. What is important is in our hearts.
    ‘Not so very long ago….
    ………..And we are proud we are students of the ACS!

  4. #4 by Jimm on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 2:36 pm

    We all knew that UMNO is behind all these the moment they can get royal consent and have successfully planted the Ketuanan fears into the Malays.
    This scandal changes history by itself and re-make their own people to be seen as national heroes as big as they can picture it.
    Of course, over years .. everything had firmed embedded into most Malaysian mind about the national heroes.
    Now, moving in making everything as perfect as the story goes, they have been trying ways to ‘take out’ or ‘throw away’ signs or form of structural that does not give them advantage.
    To them, it’s history and history don’t pay them enough to be rich but endangered their plots.
    At the current wealth sharing concept eversince TDM tenure, not a single one in that system will dare to complaint or object as that will means their financial incoming channel will be stopped.
    Get the picture.

  5. #5 by tuanlokong on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 2:39 pm

    I do not see the logic, but maybe it was installed over the actual school emblem. Do not happen in our place though.

  6. #6 by sotong on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 2:41 pm

    Many thought PAS is extreme.

    Islamic extremism and fundamentalism are doing enormous damage to a multi religious country.

  7. #7 by messy on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 2:46 pm

    thank you YB Lim for fighting for my school’s right…this have ben going on for many years at last our cries have been heard…

    but to tell you the truth they’ll never pick up your call our even answer your questions because they’re too ashamed to even answer the public themselves….

    anyway i can say Malaysia is proud to have a MP like you!…keep up the good work

  8. #8 by lakshy on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 3:00 pm

    There is a large hindu temple in Bandar Chukai, Kemaman, Terengganu which for many years was on TOL land. For many years the temple was trying to get the title for the land which it was occupying. Never worked.

    When PAS took over Terengganu, in teh previous elections, when the temple committee wrote to teh MP and the state Govt, the government gave the temple the title. Now you tell me who is more tolerant? PAS or UMNO?

  9. #9 by greatstuff on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 3:22 pm

    Well LKS, you have real guts to speak out against unfair practises, and I wish that others would have the courage of their convictions, instead of being the “limbeh” fellows they really are! Keep hammering away at the morons who are responsible for putting the nation backwards. It will be greatly interesting for all to see if Kerismuddin’s Education Ministry would have any objection if the cross and Christian statues are restored for mission schools where they had been replaced or removed.

  10. #10 by Libra2 on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 3:26 pm

    This started decades ago and the exercise is almost complete. Now what we need to do is replace those crosses back on the building. After all the schools belong to the Mission.

  11. #11 by Jeffrey on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 3:54 pm

    Deputy Education Minister Datuk Noh Omar said in Parliament yesterday that the Ministry would not remove the cross and Christian statues from mission schools.

    What is now right (ie removal) today would be not right too in the past.

    What was not right in the past would justify rectification and remedy, which is re-instatement of crosses in the past so directed to be removed and were removed.

    Is there any other way to look at it?

  12. #12 by Jeffrey on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 4:01 pm

    “….What is NOT (not “now”) right (ie removal) today would not be right in the past…”

  13. #13 by Jonny on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 4:11 pm

    The matter of fact is, as a Chinese, I always tell my Chinese friends – the biggest Buddha statue is in Kelantan. (And I’m not even a Buddhist. I’m a Christian).

    And look, who is more tolerant? The devil has finally reared its head.

    The govt controlled media always devilized any stupid or silly remarks made by the PAS and made it look big-deal. But fact of the matter is, PAS is more tolerant than UMNO/BN.

    So, definitely my vote is for PAS if given the choice of UMNO vs PAS.

  14. #14 by ihavesomethingtosay on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 4:19 pm

    First it’d be the schools, then follow by the Shop house churches, thirdly demolition of all old churches altogether.

    step by step.

    just like the talibans.

    Bamiyan Buddha has been standing there along the silk road for over 4,000 years, guarding the route like a gentle giant. all it took was some C4 and tanks to blow these two benovalent statue from the face of the earth forever.

    Extremisim must not be allowed into this country.

    the sad thing is.

    The churches will take these uncivilized issues as a test for faith.

    They will do nothing.

  15. #15 by mendela on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 4:52 pm

    How many new churches are build in the past 10 years?

    Yes, we can see some of the new churches been build, but build on shoplots or on private houses!

    Religions are meant only good. Why this stupid Gomen is so scare about other faiths?
    Why it needs to be so intolerant on other religions?

    Why new churches cannot be build in a more respectable manners?

  16. #16 by midnitelily on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 5:14 pm

    My alma mater, Assunta Secondary School in PJ had the tiny cross in the school emblem. That was removed sometime in the 90s. We used to have the emblem on our exercise books as well, but of course, everything had to be reprinted without the cross.

    I think the school was also told to remove all the crucifixes and anything related to the religion (i.e. statues, etc) before I was there.

  17. #17 by sheriff singh on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 5:23 pm

    Remember how Red Cross became Red Crescent? The Red Cross was actually the opposite of the Swiss National flag, the country which gave birth to this organisation.

    Some months ago, a friend e-mailed this article to me and asked me how my community felt. How do you feel?


    Compiled by Aneel David Kannabhiran

    1957: The Reid Commission drafted the Federal Constitution, and at the behest of one of the Commission members, Mr. Justice Abdul Hamid of West Pakistan High Court, Article 3 (1) was formulated as such: “Islam is the religion of the Federation …”

    1966: Restrictions were placed on the employment, entry and residence of priests and religious personnel. This led to the reduction of religious personnel in mission schools.

    1974: The Red Cross Society was re-named Red Crescent Society.

    1974 to present: The airing of Islamic television and radio programmes began increasing. From 1974 onwards, prime time television programmes were paused to air the Azans [Muslim prayer]. In 1982 Islamic content on TV stood at 10 per cent; in 1988 it rose to 17.5 per cent.

    In 2007, new station TV9 was launched, which features mainly Islamic programming. There is no coverage of non-Muslim religious programmes, save for during the respective festivals.

    Songs that contain the word ‘Jesus’ have been banned [eg: “Jesus to a Child” by George Michael], as well as movies depicting prophets [eg: “Prince of Egypt”, a film about the life of Moses].

    1979: The Islamic Revolution and revivalism in Iran had a direct effect on Muslims here. Muslim clerics began exhorting their faithful to return to the fundamentals of the faith. The Angkatan Budaya Islam Malaysia [Malaysian Islamic Cultural Force] (ABIM) led by Anwar Ibrahim started the dakwah [the call] movement mainly among government college and university students.

    Muslim women, for the first time, were seen donning the tudung [head covering]. Over the years, wearing of the tudung has become the norm amongst Muslim women.

    1981: The Indonesian translation of the Bible – “Alkitab” was banned under the Internal Security Act. The ban was later lifted on condition the books were restricted to Christian use.

    In 2000, the Bahasa Malaysia translation of “Alkitab” was confiscated by the Special Branch from the Daughters of St. Paul bookstore in Petaling Jaya. The then Deputy PM Abdullah Badawi later released the books on condition that the words “for Christians only” were printed on the cover.

    1984: It became illegal for non-Muslims to use 49 ‘Islamic’ words including Allah [God], Alhamdulilah [Praise be to God] and Insya Allah [God willing].

    1985: The then Deputy Prime Minister [PM] Datuk Musa Hitam said, “The government has set up a committee to co-ordinate the various aspects of Islamic Syariah and civil laws in line with efforts to infuse Islamic values into the Administration.” [New Straits Times (NST) 9 March ‘85]

    Aug 1986: ABIM proposes to government that, “Islamic laws be the basis of legislation in Malaysia.” [NST 25 Aug ‘86]

    Sep 1986: The Federal and State governments agreed to the integration of Syariah and Civil Courts. The then Lord President Tun Salleh Abas said this integration was a first step toward the Islamisation of laws in the country. He also said that changes should not be made drastically … the best changes are those which are imperceptible. [The Star 25 Sep ‘86]

    The above situation led to a written protest by the Malaysian Consultative Council of Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism and Sikhism [MCCBCHS], and a nationwide church and temple signature campaign denouncing the plans.

    1988: The then Minister of Education Anwar Ibrahim, directed all Principals, aged fifty-five and above who were religious, to stop service with immediate effect. The Principals who took over were mostly Muslim.


    Moral Education replaced Christian religious education in these schools. The majority of Moral Education teachers were Muslim.
    Crucifixes in mission schools were removed.
    School history textbooks glorified Islam and Islamic civilisation over other religions.
    “Islamic Civilisation” was introduced as a compulsory subject for all university students.

    1988: Article 121 of the Federal Constitution was amended by Art. 121 (1A), to state that, the Civil Courts “shall have no jurisdiction in respect of any matter within the jurisdiction of the Syariah Courts.”

    The result of this amendment led to the Civil Courts being unable to adjudicate in cases where the Islamic ingredient is present notwithstanding the fact the person seeking judicial relief or remedy is a non-Muslim, especially in matters related to conversion, matrimony, children’s custody and burial.

    Over the years, case law has shown:

    a person who converts to Islam can get his/her civil marriage dissolved by the Syariah court, automatically gains custody of children and is allowed to convert them without the non-Muslim parent’s consent [Subashini v Saravanan].
    a person who converts out of Islam cannot change religious status on his/her Identity Card without permission from the Syariah Court [Lina Joy case].

    a person who applies to the Syariah Court to convert away from Islam is forced into rehabilitative detention [Revathi Masoosai case ].

    State Islamic authorities are given power by the Syariah Courts to claim, exhume and bury deceased persons who they deem as Muslims, regardless of the insistence of family members to the contrary [Moorthy Marian and Rayappan Anthony cases].

    1980s: In line with Article 11 (4) of the Federal Constitution: “State and federal law may restrict the propagation of any other religious doctrine among Muslims”, the Control and Restriction of the Propagation of Non-Islamic Religions Enactment was passed in six states. The penalties for such violations are a maximum RM10,000 fine or one year’s jail, or both.

    Five persons including a former Muslim were detained without trial under the ISA for allegedly performing missionary work amongst Muslims.

    During the 80s the print media attempted to portray that Christian evangelism was a threat to the Muslim faith. As an example, on 9 Oct ’87, the NST reported that, “Christians attempted to convert Muslims with bribe money”. On 5 Oct ’87 Mingguan Islam alleged that US$100bil was provided by the “World Federation of Churches” for the Christianisation of Muslims. The Malaysian Consultative Council on Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism and Sikhism [MCCBCHS] asserted that both these stories were false. Furthermore, there is no such body as the “World Federation of Churches”.

    1980s to present: Approvals for building of non-Muslim places of worship became increasingly difficult. Unusual conditions were imposed – height restrictions on steeples, design restrictions temple domes – Sikh gurdwaras are barred from building their traditional domes for fear that it may cause confusion for looking too mosque-like.

    The Church of the Divine Mercy in Shah Alam took no less than 28 years to be approved and built due to vexatious bureaucratic delays and protests from residents.

    To date, over 10 Hindu temples have been demolished by local councils on grounds that the structures were illegal.

    1980s to present: Muslims by virtue of paying their tithes [zakat] are allowed a tax rebate of the amount tithed. This has resulted in Muslims having a lower effective tax rate, while non-Muslims with the same level of income are taxed a higher percentage.

    1993: Banks and finance companies were allowed to offer Islamic banking services.

    1993: Kelantan State Legislative Assembly, which is under the control of opposition Parti Islam SeMalaysia [PAS], passed the Syariah Criminal Code [II] Bill, which included Hudud laws that call for stoning to death and chopping of limbs – these laws could be applied to those from any religion. [As the Federal Government does not recognise these laws, to date, they have not yet been enforced.]

    1999: The ruling Barisan Nasional [BN] party suffered its biggest setback in its history when apart from Kelantan, also lost the state of Terengganu to PAS in the General Elections.

    PAS, with its vision of setting up a Syariah-based Islamic State, replaced the Democratic Action Party [DAP] as the main opposition party in Parliament.

    This led to a race between the BN and PAS to try and ‘out-Islamise’ each other by posturing themselves to appear more ‘Islamic’.

    2001: In an apparent attempt to thwart support for PAS’ plans of an Islamic State should it come into power, the then PM Mahathir Mohamed declared that Malaysia was already a “model Islamic Country”. Despite public outcry from the non-Muslim population, the non-Malay component parties within the ruling coalition were either compliant or silent on the issue.

    2002: The policy “Absorption of Islamic Values” into government administration was launched. According to the booklet, “Malaysia is an Islamic Country”, the “policy will be implemented on a continuous basis until the goal of entrenching Islam into the nation’s system is fully achieved.” The booklet was later withdrawn but the policy is arguably still in force.

    2004: PAS was ousted by the DAP as main opposition party in Parliament when it lost Terengganu to the BN and retained Kelantan by the narrowest of margins in the General Election. The BN, helmed by new PM Abdullah Badawi, experienced its biggest victory to date winning nine tenths of the contested Parliamentary seats.

    Badawi then introduced the new concept of Islam Hadhari [Civilisational Islam].

    2005: Plans to set up an Interfaith Commission, a statutory non-adjudicative body to assist the government in shaping coherent policy pertaining to religious harmony, were scuttled by widespread protests from Muslim activists who alleged the Commission would “interfere with the holiness of Islam”.

    2005: City Hall enforcement officers arrested a non-Muslim couple for hugging and kissing in a public park. The couple appealed to the Federal Court, which ruled that City Hall was correct. The decision has now empowered local council authorities to act as morality police.

    2006: An elderly American couple on holiday in Langkawi were harassed and humiliated by State religious enforcement officers who raided their apartment on suspicion they were Muslims committing khalwat [close proximity] – an offence under Syariah law.

    2006: A coalition of non-governmental organisations [NGOs] formed “Article 11” [named after the constitutional provision which enshrines freedom of religion], with the intention of reminding the government to defend the Federal Constitution and reaffirm the country’s secular nature. Their nationwide fora were repeatedly disrupted by Islamist activists. The PM stepped in and assuaged the protestors by putting a halt “Article 11’s” activities.

    2006: The Attorney General’s Chambers now has a Syariah unit whose functions, inter alia, are to “take steps toward the realisation of a set of laws and specific body that will be responsible for the harmonisation of civil law and syarak [laws of Islam]”.

    This could be seen as a resumption of the 1985-1988 initiative towards the integration of Syariah and Civil Courts.

    2007: Islamic authorities have been observed to have grown more tyrannical in their enforcement, as evidenced by the recent Revathi Masoosai case where they forcibly took away her child on the grounds that she was a Muslim who illegally practised Hinduism, despite her claim that she had been a practising Hindu since childhood.

    A “Building Bridges” seminar of prominent Muslim and Christian scholars under the auspice of the Archbishop of Canterbury scheduled for 7-11 May 2007 was abruptly postponed by officials of the Prime Minister’s Department. No new date has been yet fixed.

    July 17 2007: Deputy PM Najib Abdul Razak said Malaysia has never been a secular state as the government has always been driven by the fundamentals of Islam, according to state Bernama news agency.

    And so on.


  18. #18 by sheriff singh on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 5:26 pm

    Can we just know how much public funds have been allocated by the government for the building of temples and churches under all the various Malaysia plans? Also land allocated for such purposes, if the government says it actively supports and contributes to all religions?

  19. #19 by verbal-lash on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 6:18 pm

    The Convent School in JB had its cross replaced with a star from the school emblem about 20 over years ago. It is one of those few convent schools that has the statue of Mother Mary gracing its entrance and the Johor Govt had tried to give trouble several times, until the Johor Sultanate put their foot down as the statue was a gift from their forefather, Sultan Ismail.

    One of my ex-room mates is from PAS-ruled Kelantan and she is a teacher in one of the Chinese Schools. The PAS Govt is never hesitant everytime there is a request for additional funds needed for the school. Huge funds are channelled annually to the Chinese schools as well. That is what I call tolerance, even magnanimity. While I was hesitant in previous elections to vote for PAS when it was paired as BN versus PAS in my area, this time I will surely not hesitant to vote for PAS! Anything to cause instability to the BN arrogance!

  20. #20 by madmix on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 6:57 pm

    The BN MP said he has nothing against crucifixes being displayed in mission schools, but that he was merely raising the people’s concern over the matter.

    Why should people be concerned about the matter? are they vampires who would be burned by the sight of the cross? are their faith so little that the mere sight of the crucifix can cause them to convert to Christianity? Others have no qualms or concern about Quaranic verses displayed everywhere or the crescent symbol, or the call to prayer over loud speakers 5 times a day. so why the fuss about a cross?

  21. #21 by borrring on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 6:58 pm

    Islamisation is creeping into our society indeed….sad state

  22. #22 by ahoo on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 8:28 pm

    Do take note as well that all flag poles that was originally designed with ” cross shape ” for state, country and individual have had been replaced with 3 straight pole !

    Well, anything that have a cross-shape design, just cause some people to have untold fears. That just shows their level of faith in their God. Yet they understood and proudly claimed that they are also from the Abramhamic lineage.

    As such, why go against the GOD that Abraham believed or are they simply just lost and confused ? You cannot claimed one thing and behave otherwise.

    For GOD certainly sees the heart and not the daily rituals that we performed. In all that we do, always know that GOD is watching us. What we sow, we shall reap !!!

    All religion teaches us to be faithful and love others with respect and tolerance including Islam. It is just the people (govt) that uses religion for their own end in justifying their deeds.

  23. #23 by undergrad2 on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 9:12 pm


    It is the message that the cross carries that they fear.

    It is the stone images of Gods that they ‘fear’ – not because they fear stones may turn to flesh and walk among them but God does not have a face. Remember what President Reagan said about the Challenger Seven the first astronauts to die in flight? They died “touching the face of God”.

    God indeed does not have a face. Didn’t He say:

    “I am the LORD your God,….. You shall have no other gods before me.” (Ex. 20:3)

    “You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything…. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God….” (Ex. 20:4-6).

    UMNO leaders know of course that the Cross is not God or that God is crossed with them. Why are they then suddenly fixated on stone symbols or icons as if these stone symbols are making their debut for the first time? Should we expect to see UMNO Youth leaders peeking into the blouses of school girls attending missionary schools for religious icons?

    To these politicians may I recommend that you read the works of Jean Jacques Rousseau on the “Social Contract” or principles of political right. Just click here

  24. #24 by mendela on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 10:04 pm

    The millions of peace loving moderate Muslims in Malaysia MUST say NO to the few hundreds of Muslim fanatics and UMO running dogs!

    Keeping silence is like cancer grows.

  25. #25 by mendela on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 10:08 pm

    sheriff asked //Can we just know how much public funds have been allocated by the government for the building of temples and churches under all the various Malaysia plans? //

    Kit should ask also how many temples this UMO Gomen had brought down too in the last 20 years!

  26. #26 by smeagroo on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 10:10 pm

    Maybe we can piss off these Vampires by putting up car stickers with crosses and see how many of these blood suckas will die at the very sight of it.

  27. #27 by bra888 on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 10:11 pm

    I was surfing the net about our Indian friend rights’ being violated and I found something that offends me. (I can’t remember what or where the link was, but whosoever knows can tell me.)

    I learned that many Hindu temples were being demolished. The site claimed that the police used a method to purposely stage chaos during the demonstration to protect the temple and took advantage to upper hand the protesters.


  28. #28 by cheng on soo on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 10:36 pm

    Those who think PAS may be more intolerance than UMNO on others religion, cultures etc. Go to visit Kelantan, talk to n interview non Muslim who had lived in Kelantan. Kelantan had 3 big buddha statues. interview non muslim in trengganu, get their opinions on difference between PAS n UMNO govt. dont just believe whatever main stream media said !

  29. #29 by undergrad2 on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 10:38 pm

    Is Malaysia moving towards making ‘calling our teddy bear, Mohammad’ a crime??

  30. #30 by undergrad2 on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 10:42 pm

    After what happened in Sudan, my favorite song by Elvis is never the same again!

    “Teddy Bear” – the Elvis version

    Baby let me be,
    your lovin’ Teddy Bear
    Put a chain around my neck,
    and lead me anywhere
    Oh let me be
    Your teddy bear.

    I don’t wanna be a tiger
    Cause tigers play too rough
    I don’t wanna be a lion
    ‘Cause lions ain’t the kind
    you love enough.
    Just wanna be, your Teddy Bear
    Put a chain around my neck
    and lead me anywhere
    Oh let me be
    Your teddy bear.

    Baby let me be, around you every night
    Run your fingers through my hair,
    And cuddle me real tight

  31. #31 by penangboy on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 11:29 pm

    YB Lim
    I am glad you continue to press further for the shallowness of many of our MPs have turned out to be. I am a by-product of a Christian Brother School in Penang. I am proud to be a Xavierian and continue to remember how much the school has done for me in terms of character building. I strongly suggest that the BN MPs go back to where they came from and leave the schools alone.

    Labor Omnia Vincit – that is my motto. I hope you will share this motto with the other DAP members. It means Labor Conquers All. Continue to talk about this. Continue to speak louder than anyone else.

    A vote for DAP is a vote against UMNO. I all for DAP

  32. #32 by waterfrontcoolie on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 11:34 pm

    people who want others to view them as pious are all ARTIFICIAL and RITUALISTIC. If you sincerely trust the CREATOR then you should respect the world that HE had allowed to develope. If HE really wanted mindless people, then HE would have had us made like one. HE wanted varieties! so that the universe is more colourful. Peolple will change to follow some thing new, if it attracts them, otherwise they just leave it. And people will not change for something new, if that something new has not much to offer in thought, culture or tradition. This is especially true of the majority of the non-Malays in this country!! Their cultures and traditions have so much depth in so many aspects that they see no advantage in changing their thoughts or out-look in life. So don’t waste too much time trying to change most of us. If we need to change we will change without somebody trying to preach to us! Well, I always give a reasonable preacher a chance to listen him out and of course he did be better be able to answer some ‘reasonable’ questions which many of us from the ancient and antique ‘tribes’ will ask. Hence the best policy is to each his own and the world will spin along in spite of all the nonsenses around. Those who fear symbols should also ask themselves their faith in their beliefs.

  33. #33 by ktteokt on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 11:43 pm

    Today, we see MCA coming out against PAS again on the Islamic nation issue. Is there a difference between PAS Islam and UMNO Islam? Are there two different Islam religions in the world or at least in Malaysia? Are there two different qurans? Otherwise, how come when PAS declares Malaysia an Islamic nation, MCA makes so much noise but when AAB announced Malaysia an Islamic state, MCA just kept quiet?

  34. #34 by undergrad2 on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 - 11:48 pm

    “A vote for DAP is a vote against UMNO. I all for DAP”

    What if DAP is not contesting the seat? Will you then still exercise your constitutional right to vote?

  35. #35 by yewhenry on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 12:05 am

    Mr. Lim,
    I have read the minutes of the parliamentary meeting dated 29th of October 2007 (downloaded from I was appalled when the MP for Parit Sulong actually made that kind of statement. Clearly, Mr. Lim that the MP for Parit Sulong wasn’t well-informed about the administration of such missionary schools such as the La Salle, Convent, Anglo-Chinese and Methodist schools. He believed that these schools, through the Board of Directors, were still under control by the Vatican City, which is totally a fallacy in itself. If I may say so, his claim was a complete farce.

    I was a student in a La Salle school in Ipoh (St. Michael’s Institution) for eleven years, and NEVER was there a day throughout my eleven years where I had to sing hymns (or “lagu-lagu gereja”), as the MP for Parit Sulong so put it, to start of my days in school.

    Not only that, the Board of Directors, which was once headed by the Brothers of the La Sallian Network (and were also the principals of the school) is now headed by the local people. I do not know about the other schools, but what I can confirm is that the schools were NEVER controlled by the Vatican City in any manner.

    What I was surprised is that the MP for Parit Sulong does not have a clear picture of how are mission schools like today, and the fact that the MP for Sri Gading even said that a father informed him that one of the schools did not close during the Hari Raya, it seemed to me that all this was spoken without solid evidence, such as who the informant was and which school was it that he was referring to.

    As citizens, we know that the MPs want to impress the people of their constituencies and letting them know that they are indeed doing something for the people. But with MPs like those of Parit Sulong and Sri Gading, not only do they give citizens a poor impression, they are portraying extremism in the sense that they become so “pantang” when they see the crosses that they could even propose to the Dewan Rakyat to have the crosses and the statues demolished and destroyed. Is this what we mean by respecting each other’s religion, culture and architecture?

    In a reversal of fortune, ASSUMING that a school is built in a non-Islamic state and the school is built with Islamic features such as the characteristic dome that can be seen on mosques (ASSUMING that such architectures are allowed on schools), how would the MP for Parit Sulong and Sri Gading feel if the MPs for that country propose that the dome be demolished because it is an Islamic influence? Wouldn’t they be enraged, too?

    Mr. Lim, I may not be of age to vote yet, but all I’d like to say is that MPs were chosen by the people as representatives in the hope for better future, better amenities, better services. We don’t want MPs making a fool of themselves by saying things that portrays lack of maturity and making conclusions and decisions that are emotionally driven. I strongly believe that as MPs, they must be rational in thinking. It is sad to see that rationality is not part of the vocabulary of some MPs today in the Parliament. And the fact that MPs like those of Parit Sulong and Sri Gading actually make such remarks prove that they have lack of sensitivity towards racial and religious sentiments. Also, where has their wisdom gone?

    Frankly, there are so many MPs (former and present) and members of the royal family who were brought up in mission schools, such as YAB Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak, His Highness Raja Dr. Nazrin Shah (Raja Muda of Perak), YAB Datuk Seri Lim Keng Yaik, YAB Tan Sri Lee Lam Thye, etc. The MP for Parit Sulong could have gathered information from these people before lambasting the missionary schools with false claims and accusations.

    The past administration of such missionary schools is no longer the same anymore today. It is important that everybody be in the know of how these missionary schools are run now and not bother with how they were run in the 50s or 60s. These schools have a legacy in this country, and the architecture is part of the legacy and history. They are a rare sight today and thus must not be destroyed.

    Finally, an advice to all MPs. If you have nothing better to say, stop finding convenient but offensive topics (such as this one to have the crosses and statues removed from missionary schools) to talk about and please, just keep quiet! If the tongue is going to cause more harm and than good, it is far better to just hold your tongue rather than portraying how foolish one is.

    Mr. Lim, I can’t believe that some people just like to waste other people’s time during parliamentary meetings. It is indeed sad that you have to go through such an ordeal, from morning till night.

    I could have gone overboard in my comments here, therefore if I have, I apologise. No hard feelings intended and I certainly have nothing against the MPs for Parit Sulong and Sri Gading. I merely want everybody to know that in whatever we do, we must ensure we have the proof before speaking up. It is important that we know our democracy is not absolute, but controlled. Freedom of speech has its limits, too.

  36. #36 by SkullOfScar on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 12:17 am

    All my family, relatives, friends, collegue, etc, etc, etc, etc… support DAP in no matter what. Let’s kick out Uneducated Monkey with No Otak, as much as we can. I will pray for you YB LKS.

  37. #37 by Aramaitii on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 12:38 am

    My skool(Sabah) SM Lok Yuk also removed cross. then they put a hornbill. SRK stella maris also had pictures of jesus and cross. Removed too…..

  38. #38 by ENDANGERED HORNBILL on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 1:10 am

    undergrad2 Says:

    December 4th, 2007 at 21: 12.00

    “To these politicians may I recommend that you read the works of Jean Jacques Rousseau on the “Social Contract” or principles of political right. Just click here “

    Very good intentions. But I really doubt most UMNO MPs would even understand if they click on. And that includes PM. It’s a different class of students you are taklking to. There is no hope as well for the new and younger generation because they (Hishammuddin’s MInistry) prefer to feed these minds on ‘Munshi Abdullah’, Hang Tuah and Jebat. And of course, previously, the speeches of Mahathir and his Malaay Dilemma. Today, it would be Pak Lah’s New hadhari.

    So – Rousseau, John Stuart Mill, Adam SMith, Socrates, Aristotle and hundreds, if not thousands of other thinkers, philosophers, economists, etc. Just no hope. Half of the UMNO MPs do not possess a level of English beyond ENid Blyton. Do you think Mohd Taib, Mohd Aziz, Said of JAsin, Bung of Kinabatangan and so many others even understand half of what LKS writes? No way. Only if LKS explains in Bahasa in Parliament.

    And as for their mindset, read this:

  39. #39 by harrisonbinhansome on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 1:11 am

    Once again my highest salute to Uncle Kit. The rest of the MPs especially of Christian creed who remain reticent, may I pray that the LORD resusitate their souls.


  40. #40 by ENDANGERED HORNBILL on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 1:18 am

    “How many mission schools in the country have the cross removed from school emblem?”

    Many moons before MAlaysian universities plunged to their abysmal depths (and still diving), there was this ‘dawn raid’ on the schools in MAlasyai. The fall in schools standards preceded the collapse in educational standards in schools. Today, Malaysian schools are twenty years behind many of the leading schools in the world.

    I see absolutely no hope for Malaysian schools and universities with the present crop of leaders and their polarized policies. Just expect the harvest to get worse and worse each year! Why be shocked at all. After all, it’s a rule of nature: “you reap what you sow”. And can you expect roes to hatch in brackish waters?

    A simple piece of advice: I think Malaysian non-Malay parents should just do what they have to do to ensure that their children’s minds do not rot in the current climate.

  41. #41 by carloz28 on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 1:36 am

    “Santa Claus must dress in green, not red.”

    Cannot use the word Santa Claus, change to ‘Mat Natal’.

    Sungai Wang, Lot 10 and other skycrapers have be demolished because it is higher than the national mosque.

    Kuaci is banned in the entire country because the name is too chinese.

    P.Ramlee Movies is aired on 8tv channel every 2 hours in a day.

    History textbooks editted, Ibn Sina is one who created the original ‘Pil Chi Kit Teck aun’

  42. #42 by zack on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 1:55 am

    what the fuss? wherever you go in this world there is going to be preferences made …religiously, politically, ethnically and whatever … in Chine, in India, In American … everywhere … those in the minority have to learn to be part of the society and in the case of Malaysia … it happens to be islam, malays and UMNO ….. so what can the rest do but to accept that facts. The cross issue is an old one and for a highly respected LKS to bring it out is like opening an oudated sardine can …. we just throw it away ….. non issue and no fuss about it … its not like Christianity is ban here …. malaysian are free to profess any religion .. of course there are isolated cases like the lina joy but it must be treated as such. …..

  43. #43 by zack on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 2:01 am

    undergrad2 …
    your comment is in bad taste and to me is your way to insult Islam. The event in Sudan is very serious to us Muslim although you may not think so. Your joke is in bad taste since what you are doing is just to make fun of the incident ……

  44. #44 by kanthanboy on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 3:57 am

    Thank you a million times to Syed Hood (BN-Parit Sulong) and Mohamad Aziz (BN-Sri Gading) for raising the cross issue in the Devan Rakyat. If not for the diligent efforts of these 2 MP we are still in the dark that many mission schools already have the cross removed from their school emblems.

    Writers to LKS blog have so far provided the names of the following schools where the cross had been replaced in the school emblem. If you know of any other schools affected please post the information to this blog.

    + The cross in the ACS Ipoh’s badge was removed in 1974.

    + Assunta Secondary School in PJ had the tiny cross in the school emblem removed in the 90.s

    + The Convent School in JB had its cross replaced with a star from the school emblem about 20 over years ago.

    + St. David High School, Bukit Baru, Melaka, the cross had been replaced by a crown.

    + Convent Girls School in Muar, Cross was replaced with a cresent moon on badge.

    + Methodist Boys Secondary School, Kuala Lumpur.

    As YB Lim has called on the Minister of Education give a statement to explain how many schools in the country have the cross in the school emblem replaced. Let’s see whether Keris Hihammuddin will say he will continue to replace the cross from school emblems until Christian and other non-Malays become “desensitized” to it.

  45. #45 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 4:01 am

    ….and more. Stamford Raffles was never in Singapore and Francis Light never set foot on Pinang Island. There were no pinang trees to give its name to the island. Admiral Cheng Hoe never left China.

  46. #46 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 4:16 am

    Yes, soon they’ll send body snatchers in the middle of the night to snatch crosses.

  47. #47 by carloz28 on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 5:02 am


    Aladdin story books, cartoon and video games are permanently banned in the country until they decide to change the name of the protagonist… (sorry kids)

    Goverment impose a strict embargo on chicken tikka masala, buah pala and lala.(oyster)

    From now on, U can only have 3 malay names to choose from for your Teddy bears and pets…..Din, Mawi or Bungmokthar

  48. #48 by sotong on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 6:20 am

    PAS is true to Islam…..race is not an issue.

    Islam as an official religion of the country will be better under the proper guidance and supervision of PAS.

    UMNO mix of race and religion is most damaging to a multi racial and religious country.

  49. #49 by sotong on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 6:31 am

    Non Malays should not fear true Islam……it is the same as other true religions.

    Decades of politics of race and religion, let alone gross mismanagement, rampant corruption, crime, gross excesses and abuse and etc., had done permanent and long term damage to the country.

  50. #50 by HJ Angus on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 7:31 am

    I am sure if true Islam or any religion is properly administered as a state doctrine, the world would be a better place.

    But the basic problem is that man is simply too weak to resist temptation and soon with the power to rule, he becomes corrupt. Is there anywhere in the world where religion has been successful and properly administered?

    It is better that people always retain the power to kick out rulers that are not fit to rule.
    Best to keep religion and politics separate.

  51. #51 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 7:36 am

    “Best to keep religion and politics separate”

    Says who? UMNO?

    Anybody has a copy of the Turkish Constitution? With separation of mosque and state, the minorities there were not spared the atrocities of genocide in the First World War.

    It is best to leave God alone so He could work in peace.

  52. #52 by dawsheng on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 7:41 am

    26 Hindraf supporters charged with attempted murder

    find out more at

  53. #53 by Justicewanted on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 8:01 am

    What the BN lead government will do next????

    Change the name of the mission schools….

  54. #54 by pulau_sibu on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 8:21 am

    Why the brothers and sisters can no longer be the guru besar in the missionary schools? i think they were the best grur besar in the history known to me.

  55. #55 by Jeffrey on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 8:41 am

    “….//….Hishammuddin should also explain whether the Education Ministry would have any objection if the cross and Christian statues are restored for mission schools where they had been replaced or removed…//…”.
    Why should he be even asked if Education Ministry has objections?

    I don’t think he would give an answer.

    His deputy Datuk Noh Omar had already clarified in Parliament that the Ministry would not remove the cross and Christian statues from mission schools.

    This means that the Education Ministry acknowledges that any request, instruction or demand made to or pressure exerted on mission schools to remove the cross and Christian statues is bigotry and extremism.

    The Ministry cannot officially support it. If the Ministry cannot support bigotry and extremism now, it cannot have reason to do so when it was perpetrated in the past.

    For what is wrong now, as indirectly admitted by Nor, has got to be equally wrong when perpetrated in the past and if it was then wrong, then the situation caused by such a wrong cannot today be allowed to stand and remain and should be retrospectively addressed – and righted by counter measures at remedy and rectification.

    The mission schools themselves, taking the cue from Noh Omar’s stand should proceed to restore such crosses and Christian statues removed in the past. The alumni should call for and finance such restoration.

    Such a move is to restore the position to status quo before bigotry and extremism forced the change ie removal of crosses and Christian statues.

    To not restore and revert to status quo – to acquiesce with the earlier change wrought by bigotry and extremism to remain and stand – is to indirectly condone and concede to them.

    One cannot resist “creeping” bigotry and extremism by merely saying they stop here and forget about what mileage they have gained in the past.

    I say you have to push them backwards, reverse their gains, subtract their advancement, make a statement, and this can only be done by unilateral restoration by mission schools of such of their crosses and Christian statues removed in the past, without asking Hishammuddin. What is there to ask when the situation is self explanatory from Noh’s statement?

    The only thing we need ask the Education Minister is that he would not renege on his commitment to provide the customary aid to mission school covered under Ninth Malaysia Plan by reason of the crosses and Christian statues being restored.

  56. #56 by boh-liao on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 8:45 am

    Umno and BN will soon ban muslims from flying kites and travelling by aeroplanes, two items which are haram.

    Kite – there is a big cross there for all to see in the sky; no propaganda please and so no flying kites.

    Aeroplane – terrible, terrible, that’s a giant cross again up in the sky; no way people should be inside planes, especially going to the Middle East for religious purpose.

  57. #57 by budak on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 8:53 am

    a bowl of fishball noodles without fish…

    is like a fishball noodles we can find sweetness, freshness when it’s served… but UMNOs like to eat mock-up fishball rather than real fish flesh… are they trying to tell us they’re more alim or ZALIM…???

    dont judge the book by its cover…!
    especially UMNO’s book, has its own agenda and motives…

    Uneducated Monkeys with No brain…

  58. #58 by KL Dude on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 8:53 am

    They were fast to retract the statement they made, fearing another ala Hindraf will take place… Probably called “Christraf” this time… he he he.

    The PM may be the only one seem to be cautious and sensitive when it comes to religion tolarency in this country but the problem is always coming from his half past six ‘machais’ who are never ending dumb, shallow minded and never think of the consequences of what they are about to say before they talk.

  59. #59 by smeagroo on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 8:56 am

    # zack Says:
    December 5th, 2007 at 01: 55.52

    what the fuss? wherever you go in this world there is going to be preferences made …religiously, politically, ethnically and whatever … in Chine, in India, In American … everywhere … those in the minority have to learn to be part of the society and in the case of Malaysia … it happens to be islam, malays and UMNO ….. so what can the rest do but to accept that facts. The cross issue is an old one and for a highly respected LKS to bring it out is like opening an oudated sardine can …. we just throw it away ….. non issue and no fuss about it … its not like Christianity is ban here …. malaysian are free to profess any religion .. of course there are isolated cases like the lina joy but it must be treated as such. …..


    This is exactly what the Umno goons wanted you guys to do. When they bring religion into the picture the Malays will once again vote for BN or UMNO no matter how corrupted they may be. It doesnt matter if it goes again your religion or mine but just as long as the rights are protected, hey who cares if the guy is a devil.

    The rest of us here are merely asking for the real freedom to practice our faith. Yes, for now we still hv the freedom but it is slowly eroding day by day. First they take away the symbols and statues. Then what will be next? We are already facing problems in securing proper sites to build our places of worship. Are you gonna tell me to get over with it as long as we can still worship in shoplots and maybe build a tokong on the road side? OR are we gonna be desensitized as well?

    Tolerance goes both ways. It doesnt matter who the majority and minority are. That is submission and persecution if you ask me.

    So are we falling into the trap of these 2 goons who brought the matter up? We hope that the bigger agenda wont be lost. That is to bring down these goons.

    Are you with us for a better Malaysia?

  60. #60 by Jeffrey on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 9:08 am

    The only conceivable impediment to the suggestion in my last posting (which has not yet appeared in blog at this moment) is that principals of missionary schools, who had been pressured in the past to remove crosses and religious artifacts, would not dare to take remedial action to restore status quo without directive from the Ministry of Education.

    If Deputy Education Minister Datuk Noh Omar were sincere in the Ministry’s stand, ask him to procure the Ministry to issue a Surat Perkeliling Ikhtisas (SPI) imediately to the State Education Departments and Miissionary Schools to do such acts as they deem necesary to restore the crosses, religious artifacts and statutes they were misguidedly in the past misdirected to remove due to bigotry and extremism!

  61. #61 by Bigjoe on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 9:16 am

    Do anyone believe that except the most liberal Malay-Muslim, most Malay-Muslim care that Christians symbols and services are removed/restricted? The truth is the large part of them feel assured that it is, maybe slightly guilty but care? No way…

    Muslims especially in this country are thought early on its their duty to glorify their religion and if somethings gets in their way here and there, too bad…

    Why do we go talking as if there is a ignorant liberal tradition of the old Sultanate still exist even in the Kampungs? That they have not been replaced by the hegemonistic attitude that finds significant unjust casualties acceptable?

    I am all for figthing for principles but pretension no…

  62. #62 by cheng on soo on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 9:45 am

    Add to boh liao say, then Bolehsia air force must do away with all their army jet or get some expert to design fighter plane without the wings or with 2 , 3 pairs of wings so it don’t look like a cross !
    MAS must also review the shape of aeroplanes they fly, BIG CROSS IN Bolehsia Sky, How can?

  63. #63 by Jong on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 9:55 am

    Only “Islamic cars” allowed on Malaysian roads? Check this out.

  64. #64 by cheng on soo on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 10:47 am

    LIMA must be stopped, how can they show many crosses in the sky? All foreign airlines must NOT come too, unless they changed the shape of wings of their planes to make the planes dont look like cross in the sky.
    Many people in the country are very concerned about this ‘cross’ thing mah!

  65. #65 by sheriff singh on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 11:06 am

    We must always be careful of what we say or do in case we offend others. What appears to be a joke can have dire consequences.

    Charges filed against Indian tycoon over Sikh joke

    LUCKNOW (India) – INDIAN police on Tuesday filed criminal charges against one of the country’s wealthiest executives after his telephone company circulated a joke equating Sikhs with donkeys.
    Anil Ambani, who holds a major stake in the country’s second-biggest private telephone firm Reliance Communications, is accused of hurting religious sentiment.

    ‘We have registered a case of causing hurt to religious sentiment against Anil Ambani and Reliance Communications,’ police inspector Raja Singh said in northern Lucknow city, where a complaint was registered late Monday.

    The charges came after members of the Sikh faith, centred in India’s northern Punjab state, were equated with donkeys on a joke service provided by Reliance Communications.

    The offence carries a maximum prison sentence of six months.

    Reliance Communications, which has more than 30 million mobile users, insisted it was not an error committed by the company but regretted the circulation of the controversial joke.

    ‘The jokes are provided by a third-party vendor to the subscribers of telecom operators and the vendor is responsible for the content provided,’ Reliance said in a statement.

    ‘The vendor has already apologised… and while regretting the vendor’s mistake we are tendering our own sincere apologies for any hurt to the sentiments of our Sikh brothers,’ it added. — AFP

  66. #66 by hutchrun on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 11:15 am

    `Islamic cars` by proton is not a joke neither is banning of crosses.
    My Singh friend says that the Sikh temple in Shah Alam was first approved and then banned.

  67. #67 by undecidedmoron on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 11:23 am

    The churches will take these uncivilized issues as a test for faith.

    They will do nothing. – by ifhavesomethingtosay

    I must certainly agree with you. They will say that all they have to do is pray coz they are frighten. i am not being prejudice, i am a christian myself. I am just so fed up of majority of the christians in this country that wants to be overly spiritual. so for this, i doubt the NECF will ever do anything. they have been quiet for lots of things that has been happening in christian community what the government has done to us, but they will remain quiet. coz they are scared but they term it as that is God’s will, we just have to perservere. they are just chickens

  68. #68 by 5xmom on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 11:42 am

    YB Lim, It’s my first time commenting.

    My two older sons study at the St. Xavier Institution. The huge cross is still there. But Bro. Paul, the principal will complete his mission next year. And that will be the last of the mission brother. I just hope that the school can maintain its current good standard so that my two younger sons can have a decent education in the last few good schools in Penang.

  69. #69 by shaolin on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 11:57 am

    The true Christians should not in the first place tolerate
    the removal of CROSSES in missionary schools emblems.

    They should stage protests and peaceful walks, street demonstrations during and after their Saturday MASS in
    towns throughout all Malaysian towns. They Must not be
    afraid and feel threatened to come out in groups to show
    their bad feelings caused by the little Napoleons, the
    Muslim Fanatics, Islam Extremists and Fundamentalists!!

    They MUST have FAITH in their GOD, voice their HOLY
    Grievances against Muslim Fanatics of disturbing the
    normal operation of their RELIGION, Rights and FREEDOM
    to embrace any one RELIGION of DIVINE ORIGIN…!!!

    ALLAH too WILL stop all BAD MELAYU to go to HEAVEN!!!

  70. #70 by burn on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 12:42 pm

    BN UMNO true colors have prevail.
    what a pity, other BN components just keeping mum about it!

  71. #71 by burn on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 12:49 pm

    wonder, what will be next!

  72. #72 by wits0 on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 1:15 pm

    This issue cannot be regarded as solved just because a couple of Gomen minister or two says that this process has stopped in view of the coming GE.

    The removed symbols need to be restored unhindered into their original state and a clear undertaking must be made that no such infringement will be allowed or tolerated in the future.

    IOW, offensive religious fanaticism cannot be permitted to be upheld as a supposed virtue. Bad pernicious culturing as laissez-faire.

  73. #73 by wits0 on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 1:16 pm

    Correction :
    “..a couple of Gomen minister or so say..”

  74. #74 by justice88 on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 1:23 pm

    The removal of crosses from the school emblems isn’t really an important. What is more important is that there is freedom to have faith-based organisations in school and the freedom not to be forced into following rituals of a religion that you are not affiliated to. One very good example is Convent Light Street in Penang. A few years back, ALL STUDENTS were forced to recite Muslim prayers during morning assemblies. I know this because my sister had experienced it. Ironically, it is a Convent school. They only stopped the ritual when many parents objected. I was from St. Xavier’s Institution and we were never forced to sing or pray(just forced to for Negaraku, Penang state song and the school song :D). The principal of St. George’s Girls’ School banned the formation of a Christian Fellowship on school grounds. I know this because a close friend of mine tried to start one but to no avail. They should be preserving the heritage of the school as a way of saying ‘Thank you’ because they are one of the first education providers in the country. The MPs for Parit Sulong and Sri Gading should be suspended for trying to incite a religious rift. This might be damaging to the country. The ISA should be involved!

    Article 12 (2)
    Every religious group has the right to establish and maintain institutions for the education of children in its own religion, and there shall be no discrimination on the ground only of religion in
    any law relating to such institutions or in the administration of any such law; but it shall be lawful for the Federation or a State to establish or maintain or assist in establishing or maintaining
    Islamic institutions or provide or assist in providing instruction in the religion of Islam and incur such expenditure as may be necessary for the purpose.

  75. #75 by Cinapek on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 1:48 pm

    The irony of all this is that many non Christian parents realises that many of these originally mission schools has a good reputation and wants to send their children there. Whether due to sense of tradition or the environment, they continue to do well today. To destroy their heritage would be to destroy the good they are doing.

    I am not Christain but my daughter goes to a convent school. We have our own faith and we ensure our child is well imbued with our faith so that they can practise our own religion with little fear of being influenced by other religions. But if at the end of the day she feels she wants to convert to another faith for sincere reasons, we have no problems with that either.

    There is no compulsion to send your children there. If you disagree with the school’s heritage, then send your child elsewhere. Similarly, are you going to ask the SRJKs to change the nature of their school to suit students of other races who chose to enrol in these schools of their own free will?

  76. #76 by philcp on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 2:44 pm

    the cross on MBSSKL emblem was removed years ago. probably about btw 2 – 3 decades ago.

  77. #77 by Plaintruth on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 3:05 pm

    The Mission build school King George V School in Seremban had its cross remove from all trace in the year 1977.

    The government is sinister and had the evil plan to get rid of all trace of other religions. This shows how tolerance these UMNOPUTRA are.

    When I was in Lower six class the cross on the school T shirt became a “T”. Then a year later the cross completely gone.

    Today the majestic school building is completely converted into a malay domininated school. It is on the intersection to Rasah and Rahang. What a shame and trajedy the government had done. Where is the UMNOPUTRA conscience??????????

  78. #78 by k1980 on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 3:14 pm

    After this, islamic cars, motorbikes, buses, lorries, bicycles (with special features like a compass pointing to Mecca and a dedicated space to keep a copy of the Koran and a headscarf) only to be allowed on malaysian roads?

    Then, all buildings including residential premises can only be built facing Mecca?

  79. #79 by TheWrathOfGrapes on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 3:46 pm

    /// burn Says:
    December 5th, 2007 at 12: 49.10
    wonder, what will be next! ///

    wonder, whaC will be nexC!

    (don’t dot your “i”s or cross your “t”s and replace your “t”s with Crescents “C”s.)

  80. #80 by midnitelily on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 4:43 pm

    actually, it’s not just the crosses and symbols. i’m not sure about the other mission schools, but i’m sure all of them have their own ethos and unique identity i.e. names of the sport houses, an english school song (which might ve a reference to God; will these politicians find fault in that too?), the school colours. my alma mater’s alumni has been running a petition for a few years now to appeal to the education ministry to let us keep our ethos and identity.

    it’s these things that teaches us to be loyal and proud of who we are, regardless of race. it kept us united, regardless of social status. & like YB mentioned in parliament, a lot of prominent figures in the country had their foundation in mission schools. it feels like Malaysia does not treasure history or heritage at all. at least, not in giving value to diversity.

    even though this issue has been brought up off and on over the years (to win over muslim voters maybe?), it feels like it is worse today than yesterday. now, i wonder if Badawi denying that our country is not practising “ethnic cleansing” can still say so, because doesn’t tearing down temples, and calling for the destruction of crosses make it feel like small actions that lead to it? doesn’t the Malay proverb go… “Sikit-sikit, lama-lama jadi bukit” ?

    where are our leaders taking us? where is their transparency? if they want Malaysia declared officially as an Islamic country, then say so. don’t do all of this in the guise that we still do have “freedom of religion” when we are made to suppress ourselves into a tiny corner.

  81. #81 by johan_my on Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - 7:57 pm

    The emblem for King George V school is St George slaying a dragon. The old badge just had KGV printed on a blue background. About 1968 or 1969, the then headmaster change the badge with St George with the red cross in the background. (The school song was also composed during this period and the school swimming pool was built in 1969.) That got replaced with the V after I left the school in 1973. I still have the old school badge with the cross.
    You can read about this here :

    What I would like to understand is why would the cross be taboo to muslims? They are not asked to subscribe to reason behind the cross. How does one go through life if every single religions icon is taboo?

  82. #82 by patlu on Thursday, 6 December 2007 - 3:47 am

    THANK YOU, YB Lim Kit Siang,
    Thank you for following up on this in Parliament.

    Everyone reading this blog,
    Besides crosses and statues removed, please state in this blog, the identity and character changes made at your school. At Assunta Primary 1, please read the Petition: Respect the Ethos and Character of Mission Schools with more than 2,400 signatories to-date at

    Please sign the petition online if you have not done so. All past students of mission schools and the public are also encouraged to sign the above Online Petition. State the year you left school and school attended. [B]A gentle reminder:[/B] Please do not flame at the online petition as we’ll be submitting to the relevant authorities again if need be. Flames will be deleted, positive and constructive comments are most welcomed.

    Please forward this on.Simply because…


    First they came for the socialists,
    and I did not speak out
    because I was not a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I did not speak out
    because I was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I did not speak out
    because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me,
    and there was no one left
    to speak for me.

    – Pastor Martin Niemöller (victim of the Nazis)

    Assunta Spirit Alive!
    Pat Lu

  83. #83 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 6 December 2007 - 4:01 am

    Why?? Because Muslims are easily crossed.

  84. #84 by hermes on Thursday, 6 December 2007 - 7:32 am

    Why do the non muslims continue to donate to the Red Crescent movement. I don’t ever since it changed from the RED CROSS. That is the problem with the non muslims. They do not have principles. The non muslims are not prepared to act in any way, except to kow tow, when their beliefs and rights are attacked, in this case ERASED.

  85. #85 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 6 December 2007 - 10:20 am

    There is no need to sign any petition. Let your vote speaks for itself. As a Malaysian you have a constitutional duty to get your name down on that list of voters, and then make that vote!

    Have you registered to vote??

  86. #86 by patlu on Friday, 7 December 2007 - 12:19 am

    Hi hermes 07: 32.23.
    What has SAVING LIVES to do with race or religion? Think about it.

    Back to the topic, what have done done about it? Have you sent in your complaint or made a police report yet?

    “Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Datuk Seri Nazri Abd Aziz said so far, he had yet to receive any complaints over Syed Hood’s remarks.” Gives me the impression he’s not going to do anything about the two MPs until someone makes a report.

    Where to report, visit:

  87. #87 by undergrad2 on Friday, 7 December 2007 - 12:28 am

    “undergrad2 …
    your comment is in bad taste and to me is your way to insult Islam. The event in Sudan is very serious to us Muslim although you may not think so. Your joke is in bad taste …”

    My comment is not a joke. Jailing somebody and then threatening to kill her, for naming a teddy bear is no joke. I was referring to the depths of Islamic extremism which is in a free fall.

    This is the kind of thinking that today haunts Malaysia. Criminalizing the naming of the teddy bear as “Mohammed” is unthinkable to all right thinking Malay and Muslims in Malaysia.

    Nobody really believes that naming a toy “Mohammed” is an insult to Islam and Muslims – not even the Sudanese and their leaders. The failure here is the failure of moderate Muslims all over the world to speak up.

  88. #88 by patlu on Friday, 7 December 2007 - 12:31 am

    undergrad2: 10: 20.50
    “There is no need to sign any petition.”

    So, just rant and rave on blogs, blame blame blame and assume problems will go away by casting vote in GE every 5 years, izit? Oh, better still, just leave it to YB Lim Kit Siang to do everything.

    Hello, YB Lim not only need your votes lah. Stop the blame and tainting communities by the action of a few. Do something to help solve the problems and start the healing process to rebuild this nation.

  89. #89 by patlu on Friday, 7 December 2007 - 3:33 am

    hermes 07: 32.23
    “Why do the non muslims continue to donate to the Red Crescent movement. I don’t ever since it changed from the RED CROSS.”

    What has saving lives to do with race or religion? If one does not support Red Crescent aka Red Cross just because of the icon, we have lost our humanity. Please think about it.

    Back to this topic, what is the affirmative action the public has taken regarding the two MPs? Has anyone filed complaints or police reports yet?

    Where to report, visit

  90. #90 by undergrad2 on Friday, 7 December 2007 - 6:46 am


    Young man, it’s OK to rant and rave and sign petitions (as if they do not already know) but if you don’t exercise your constitutional right to vote, nothing will change. Go cast that one vote for the Opposition in your constituency. That alone may not be able to bring about the ‘change’ we need but it at least you’d have given ‘change’ a chance.

  91. #91 by undergrad2 on Friday, 7 December 2007 - 7:46 am

    “Back to this topic, what is the affirmative action the public has taken regarding the two MPs? Has anyone filed complaints or police reports yet?” Patlu

    How does filing police reports bring about ‘change’? There’s nothing wrong with filing police reports though. You’d be just adding to the paperwork of the policemen manning the desks at police stations. If at all, the practice of filing police reports gives the facade of democracy i.e. that you are free to walk into any police station and make a report against anybody – Prime Minister and IGP included. You will not be arrested for doing so. Non-citizens and tourists too can file reports. Are you expecting the two government MPs to be arrested for sedition?

    Article 11 of our Federal Constitution guarantees the freedom of religion. Only the Malays do not have that freedom. Their freedom is freedom to practice Islam.

    This drive, if it could be called that, of trying to gradually rid the country of non-Islamic symbols on public display – especially now that Malaysia has been declared ‘an Islamic state’ – is nothing new. It is symptomatic of the process of Islamization which is more than two decades old. What is new perhaps are the public outbursts by MPs in Parliament leading to the equally public uproar.

    Can it be said that our constitutional right to practice our religion has been infringed because of the government policy of discouraging or not allowing too conspicous and too public a display of non-Islamic symbols?

    Was a police report made against the PM who first issued a public statement that “Malaysia is an Islamic state”? Was a police report made against Abdullah Badawi when he too declared that “Malaysia is an Islamic state”? How does making such statements alone alter the secular nature of the state?

    Does not making police reports against UMNO mean that we agree with the government and its policy Islamization of our institutions?

    What matters finally is whether we as Malaysians who treasure racial unity and freedom would make that walk to the polling station to cast our vote. That is the only walk that matters finally.

  92. #92 by buntal on Tuesday, 18 December 2007 - 5:45 pm

    The MPs who are Christians keep quiet? I salute you, LKS! Oh ya, they don’t mind because they are not serious in their faith too. Need a prove? A simple example would be playing golf on Sunday instead of attending Sunday mass. If GOD is merciless, He can just take everything away from them in a second.

    We’re now in the 21st century and we just had our 50th anniversary of independence. Why not preserve this blessings by living in harmony without raising sensitive issues that hurt may parties.

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