LKS to be suspended from Parliament because of blog?
Part 1 of 3:
Part 2 of 3:
Part 3 of 3:
This entry was posted on Monday, 26 May 2008, 10:10 pm and is filed under Parliament, Sabah. You can follow any responses to this entry through RSS 2.0. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
Well, I guess that means that LKS must post more evidence.
If LKS should be suspended, I believe that Mohd Ali Rustam should be suspended too. I believe that his blogs is biased, consist of slanders, and does not have any evidence or statistic to support any of his claims.
You know what, very the geram to listen YB Lim speak Malay, trying to struggle to understand what he is saying. But you did your best, we know.
I see that the speaker is being democratic. and so is YB Kit Siang. The point is, YB must have more proof when posting stuff. And yes, it just goes to show that there ARE people scouring the blogs and it should be known fact that people should be aware of what they are posting online.
Suspend so what…After all our parliament is just a farce.Talk about demorcrecy. As long as you apple polish the BN you are OK. The minute you tell the truth. Mr ISA, Mr OSA, Mr OE will be waiting to see you.Have you guys saw the TV3 news yesterday and today.That is BN way of demorcrecy.
BN is a sick party! Send them for a course on Democracy, they don’t understand that word! What is a blog , is a place people air out their views freely. BN you are lopsided, you people just can’t walk straight!
#15 by ShiokGuy on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 12:53 am
Without Prejudice!
I dont think the speaker is going to suspend LKS.
But i think it will be a lot of political mileage if LKS is suspended.
Dear Mr Speaker, as a layman I think urgent issue need to jump queue. Just like an ambulance need to turn on the siren and others simply has to give way. Off cos you are in position to decide if the issue is important or not. From what i see on the debate on TV, the issue is thousand time more urgent than all those issues raise so far.
But still you have the power to make it NOT Urgent! You just think about what you have just done, do you not think you let you people down? The people of Sabah down.
Btw, you have a very strong accent. Does Sabahan has a strong accent like Indonesian? Just my opinion!
I believe that the YANG DIPERTUA IS GUILTY OF BEING BIASED. If he just condemn opposition bloggers, that is already evidence for my claim.
He should take a look at Mohd Ali Rustam’s blog. To me, I can’t even log in to post a comment in his (Mohd Ali Rustam) blog. That blogger is denying the reader’s right to voice up. That isn’t a leader material.
At least LKS is open and allows discussions among the readers whether the readers support LKS or is against LKS.
#17 by limkamput on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 1:00 am
All these technicalities – substantive, subsidiary, individual and group motions. May be someone was just trying to show he has done his research and therefore he knew better. Rightly, Parliament is the place for MPs to highlight issues and debate on them. All these restrictions, rules and procedures, if carried to the extreme, are nothing more than mechanism to stifle dissent.
#18 by harrisonbinhansome on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 1:04 am
What a travesty. Sorry, I am at lost for words. I just thought that the Government is more tolerant towards responsible free-speech. This is a shame and a disgrace to all Malaysians who loves and believes in democracy.
#20 by ENDANGERED HORNBILL on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 1:08 am
It’s an ‘uphill’ task for any Speaker to act with inherent integrity and be utterly unbiased in his stance because he is there by dint of his appointment from amongst the ranks of the ruling party. This will always be a weakness of the Westminster model of Parliamentary democracy.
What YB kit raised is both thoroughly pertinent and thoroughbred substantive in nature. At this point the Speaker has not explained why he thinks it is not substantive and merely ‘subsidiary’. Did I hear him right? The recording is faint. Or is my PC speakers playing the poltergeist!
Anyway, YB KIt: keep pressing on as you’ve the people’s best interests at heart and specifically, in this context, the people of Sabah owes you a round of applause for championing their interests at a time when BN had been scatterbrained over the last 2 decades or more in Sabah. Kudos to you, YB Kit.
When they’re suspended your present in the parliament, it means that they care about your blog and they’re aware of the truth.
They knew that they’d failed the people of Sabah. What’s a shame on them?
Instead of putting the productive ideas in the parliament debating, they’ve repeatedly wasting time by disputed your “Bahasan”. This is obviously wasting the “Rakyat” money again.
From my advice to you earlier, please putting more efforts in your strong holds and grabbing your other MP stars whose carry weight and winning the people heart there instead of wasting time talk about Sabah. Set up a good example in the state that you’re comfortable with. I still think Penang is the best state that you shall start those activities.
Frankly speaking, i don’t really undestand what the Yang Dipertua trying to say after i listen to those conversation. Putar Beliknya.
Is it true that being critic degrade our parliment while keep quiet and being a YES man make our parliment first class? If it is so, then no wonder that historically, new law or amendment to the law can be amended in Malaysia parliment within 10 minute!!
One of the reason that Yang Dipertua given was that there are many other things to be debated, and the time available are limited. Thus the motion presented by Mr Lim Kit Siang can’t be debated.
What a nonsense? Isn’t whether time should be alocated or not depend on the important of the issue? Further more, the motion say “Substantial”, which mean it is something important. Isn’t it?
///All these technicalities – substantive, subsidiary, individual and group motions….All these restrictions, rules and procedures, if carried to the extreme, are nothing more than mechanism to stifle dissent./// – limkamput
As much as technicalities may be used as a mechanism to stifle dissent, so they can be used to liberate and unshackle freedom of speech. Unfortunately in an increasingly complex world in which everything becomes governed by rules and procedures, one cannot escape them but have to be familiar with and grasp them. If one does not even get procedures right, the substance of a matter can’t even be raised.
Like it or not nowadays more than ever, the world, public and political affairs and great constitutional issues of the day are governed by rules – substantive, subsidiary, individual and group motions… restrictions, rules and procedures – and the one who knows and interprets them best over his adversary prevails on what could be done or what may not, whether this is a right or a mere privilege etc…. Restrictions, rules and procedures and law are ignored at one’s peril. See the disproportionate influence lawyers have in public and political affairs of the US, a so-called nation of laws and the developed world…
In this exchange, YB Kit studied law but so did his opponent Speaker of Parliament, Tan Sri Pandikar Amin whom, I believe, studied law at Birmingham University and whose first posting on his return to Sabah, was legal officer in the Forestry Department.…So all these substantive, subsidiary, individual and group motions….
One person who has no patience for all these rules and technicalities is – TDM. He’d say what’s all these ??? and would want to cut the chase and have his way. Eventually it is all these rules and technicalities that he has the greatest disdain that will entrap him (reference being made here to revelations of RCI on Lingam, his response and Karpal’s police report lodged).
#28 by CheeseBall on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 6:47 am
Lol. Again, does this surprise anyone at all?
Mr Lim, please take this move by UMNO/BN as a compliment to your capabilities, as they have just escalated you to the next threat level to their survival and existance.
Regardless of whether the spoilt “bullies” have “kicked you out of the kindergarten sandbox”, just continue with your blog and other achievements. You don’t have to be seen in a c-grade type “parliament movie” to make a difference with the real people of Malaysia.
As for UMNO/BN: Seen and heard, but nothing ever happens.
“It’s an ‘uphill’ task for any Speaker to act with inherent integrity and be utterly unbiased in his stance because he is there by dint of his appointment from amongst the ranks of the ruling party. This will always be a weakness of the Westminster model of Parliamentary democracy.” HORNBILL
Unlike the Speaker of the House of Representatives in the U.S. (who is second in line to the President after the V.P.) our Speaker presides over debates. But isn’t he required to renounce his political affiliations once elected?
We should remember the power of blogging in Malaysia political landscape. It had effected BN 2/3 in Parliament and hence, it is something for BN to worry about. I for one would like a balance view point from both BN and PR but it is impossible unless Malaysian Media is free to report the situation as it, Live telecast of Parliament and an open door policy for all citizens of Malaysia into Parliament.
Yes, some will argue that open media will invite lots of other problems but what is the difference in the current situation ?
Until such time BN accepts that people will both support and condemn the ruling party of the day, we will always practice as a PM once said – “Asian Democracy”
“Democracy is a system of government by which political sovereignty is retained by the people and either exercised directly by citizens or through their elected representatives. It is derived by from the Greek ?????????? ([demokratia] (help·info)), “popular government”[1] which was coined from ????? (d?mos), “people” and ?????? (kratos), “rule, strength” in the middle of the 5th century BC to denote the political systems then existing in some Greek city-states, notably Athens.
In political theory, democracy describes a small number of related forms of government and also a political philosophy. Even though there is no universally accepted definition of ‘democracy’, there are two principles that any definition of democracy is required to have. The first principle is that all members of the society have equal access to power and the second that all members enjoy universally recognised freedoms and liberties.”
BN – Please understand this before you say anything
The Speaker should not turn an official debate into a private affair and use it to retaliate against LKS.
He should understand that in this modern time, people all over the world are opening up and craving for more freedom of expression (hence we have blogs and YOUTUBE). The Speaker should be open-minded and not be left behind in this tide of modernization!
#41 by ShiokGuy on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 10:13 am
What freedom of expression?
I remember if we don’t allow Annos comment in our blog, reader tend not willing to comment. Rocky Bru tried to stop annos posting with nickname (still consider P&C since we can choose any nickname we like), but still faced resistance.
#43 by monsterball on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 11:06 am
Lim Kit Siang will always be the main target for UMNO ..in every opportunity they can find.
Especially now…in Parliament..with 82 oppositions….shut Lim’s mouth….is like taking away the leader of the 82 pieces band.
That’s what UMNO is always good at…bullying others and protect it’s own devils in disguise as Malaysians.
Yes..like one commentator said..this is a plus sign… for Lim. Malaysians are no fools.
Democracy by UMNO government is a laughing stock to the whole world.
Mr.Speaker is paving his way…to wait for Lim ….to make one false move..then ban him from Parliament…and I suggest Lim….don’t change his legendary style…..to see what this Mr.Speaker going to do about it.
He should learn to keep saying..’order…order..order”…..like Great Britain….and encourage freedom of speeches…..not keep telling speakers…this or that is out of line…like bloody school teacher.
Did I hear him say…that he wants our Parliament to be first class??? First class what?? First class hypocrites??
I wonder…how many first class Parliaments… from USA..Germany……and Britain….talk like our Malaysian Mr. Speaker.
Ah yes….great for Lim..to tell him to start his own blog…..be the first Mr. Speaker to do so. After all…UMNO claims ..”Malaysia Boleh”….ini .itu…so why not be the first Mr. Speaker to start his own blog??
#45 by rainbowseahorse on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 11:23 am
The REAL PROBLEM in Sabah IS NOT the “illegal immigrants”. Please take note of this.
True, there are still vast numbers of illegal immigrants in Sabah living & working without proper documents and is a problem to Sabah. But the REAL and VERY MUCH BIGGER PROBLEM to Sabah is the economic immigrants who were issued IC and then MyKad and who effectively have became Constitutional BUMIPUTRAS in Sabah. In rough estimates, they numbered two to one over the real Sabahans. This is the issue that should be addressed first and foremost over those illegal immigrants without documents as they can be weeded out with concerted efforts by enforcement personnel (but which is not being pursued at the moment).
#46 by i_love_malaysia on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 11:36 am
The Speaker is reading LKS blog to find out the TRUTH here instead of parliament!!! as he knows very well that BN MPs will not speak the truth in parliament and PR MPs were not allowed to speak out!!! so the only way for him to get the TRUTH & ways to answer the opposition objection is by reading this blog earlier to prepare for the objection!!! else he might be loss for words when opposition objected!!! This blog will help to generate ideas for both BN & PR MPs what to say in Parliament!!!
Suspending LKS for blogging out a pertinent national issue on the illegal migrant is in Sabah will bring about better mileage for the subject. This seems to more damaging to the BN, and would best be left status quo.
Meanwhile more and more Sabahan should show their views on this subject, as Yong Teck Lee is doing in the Daily Express today 27 May.
#48 by i_love_malaysia on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 11:44 am
Do you know why AAB chosed Sabahan as Speaker & Deputy Speakers??? the reason is other than balance of allocations for Sabahan MPs, but he also used the same tactics as TDM when choosing him to be the PM i.e. that they will be obedient servants to him without question asked!!! Sabah is not only lacking behind other states in terms of economy but also the quality of its MPs!!!
#49 by penang308 on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 12:12 pm
Remember! We are living in “BOLEHLAND”…apa pun boleh, semua boleh EXCEPT FAIRNESS!
If you speak something that is not the their liking…not only they kick you out of Parliment, they can report you to the police and charge you under Sedition, ISA, OSA etc.
Remember! who appointed the Speaker? How can he be Neutral!
anyway… I think the speaker is sincere in his advice… but is that wrong to criticize the (deputy) speaker?
…. It is not about whether MPs can or cannot criticise the speaker but it’s about where do the MPs do it? MPs must criticize the speaker or whoever in the DEWAN! But if they do it out of the DEWAN then the MPs have committed an offense …
Saudara Kit, at the end of the day, it is what we want to achieve.
Please give a 14 notice on the Sabah matter, (even to be debated at the next sitting) and move the motion. I am sure the speaker also has his problems within his party. Thus it is a good advise, take it and let us achieve what we really want – to solve the problem of the Sabah people.
‘Is LKS doing any wrong to try to bring up the real issue in Sabah ? Is he telling lie ? Answer is NO . What the hact is wrong here than ?’
Aiya, they are not interested in solving problems. Most BN MPs would be too happy if the likes of LKS, Karpal or LGE are suspened so that they can ponteng too. As it is they have to be present to give those half past six ministers when they are cornered by PR MPs!!
#58 by a-malaysian on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 3:31 pm
From the look of it, racist umno/bn still do not get it. Speaker, deputy speakers you must act fairly. The way you act shows clearly that you are biase against the oppositions. If you think that you cannot act fairly because racist umno is watching over you, then just resign.
For you to suspend YB Kit just because he had posted and receive comments and that you do not blog is just not right.
As the posting and comments are outside of parliament you have all the rights to take action in the court of law if you are wrongly accused.
Fellow Malaysians,
It looks like by just denying the racist umno/bn the two third majority will not create any good for the country. We have to get started to prepare for GE13 to take over the Federal Government.
We have to give PR one chance to run this lovely country of ours before they are destroy by this racist umno/bn.
GE 13 – No matter what, we must ensure that umno bn do not regain the power like they had for the past fifty years.
Shouldn’t it be the job of the BN government to solve this long, overdue problem for the Sabahans?
Instead of having Uncle Lim fighting tooth and nails for them?
Shouldn’t the BN government be having more interests in the welfare of their citizens? Than the opposition?
Have they learnt anything from the 8th May tsunami?
And they were talking about reforms to gain back the confidence of the electorate?
#60 by cheng on soo on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 4:10 pm
Possible to regress to forbide all opposition MPs to have blog, otherwise just suspend them !
Or require them to submit an application (with stringet conditions & fees) to telecommunication ministry for a permit (charge high annual fees) to do so !
When most people have taken a big step forward
There are still some who choose to take three steps backward
Since they feel they can’t really measure up and feel ackward
Thinking too hard on the best choice of hospital’s ward
#63 by albert308 on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 4:38 pm
Professionalism of Dewan Rakyat Speaker at stake!
How do we achieve first world Parliament with a narrow minded speaker? The appointment of Pandikar Amin is political in ‘urgency sort’ as demand from Sabahans reach critical point following Pak Lah’s cabinet appointments MISTAKE. No merit for Pandikar Amin at all since first day sitting.
Only the first session Parliament, this ‘joker’ speaker already make bid blunder. The threat against YB LKS is uncall for and disrespectful to a senior MP!
Another useless Sabahan trying so hard not to make the true Sabahan people’s voice be heard. Kiandee, PBS, etc all seem adamant not to fix this problem. Pathetic.
#66 by i_love_malaysia on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 5:42 pm
It is an open secret that the Supreme Council of a Supreme Race party (AKA Nazi) was doing all it can for the past 30 over years to import the same Supreme Race into our country, so that their nos will ensure their forever existence on our country!!! TDM had just confirmed that!!!
This is lame… the speaker is using technicality to divert attention from the real issue at hand. The question we as the rakyat should ask this Yang Di-Pertua is what is more important, the technicality of how LKS tabled the amendment or the very real illegal immigrants that are getting MyKad everyday… and his actions have given us all the answer.
So my fellow Sabahan! Know this speaker and the deputy speaker. They do not have our concerns at heart. Tell all our friends and relatives so that we’ll know who not to vote in the next election.
In the Lim Guang Eng -Malay Girl – Rahim case, the court sent LGE to jail on technicalities of having flouted printing acts when he took on a the plight of the under aged girl. Court found Rahim innocent.
There’s the parallel of technicalities here that the Speaker is heaping on LKS.
To common folks especially many many Sabahan, the illegal migrant is a social ill requiring expeditious attention; how many Sabahan think the technicalities the Speaker mounted on LKS is the greater eveil of the two subjects?
I think Speaker Pandikar was rather civil towards our beloved YB Lim, I have to admit this. There was a respectful tone between the two in their exchange. One has to agree that Speaker Pandikar is in a quandary. Nonetheless, he must realise the sanctity of his office and the house of parliament. He and his deputies should learn from Mr Tan Soo Khoon, former speaker of Singapore Parliament who was noted for his fairness and unbiased stand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tan_Soo_Khoon
We like to bash Singapore but in all fairness, they must be doing something right. Don’t you agree? How can a tiny nation with no resource can be wealthier than it’s neighbour? Absorb/learn the good things from them, of course, bad things we don’t take lah.
It has been once again demonstrated to all and sundry that the authorities will not hesitate to use whatever legal avenues there are to threaten the opposition into compliance. It is amazing to find out that there are certain people in authority will conveniently set aside important issues just to redeem their “punctured ego”. We are witnessing a classic example whereby Sabah is being flooded with illegal immigrants and could very well potentially, if not already, surpass the original Sabahans. These illegal immigrants will bring about a host of social, security and economic issues for the government to combat and yet we are dilly-dallying around. What is so difficult for the authority to set up a Royal Commission on this pressing issue as suggested by YB Lim? It is a 30 year old issue and yet we can afford to drag our feet. This is simply pathetic to say the very least.
These illegal immigrants after being legitimized will enjoy the same benefits that other Bumiputeras do and it is most silly for the government to lose billions on subsidies enriching them. For all we know, there may be a few second generation Indonesians occupying important political and government posts in Malaysia already by now.
The parliament is a place for law makers to build a climate of opinion on which they could mount and devise strategies to ensure a more just, secure and competitive Malaysia. It is not a place to earn a few browny points and surely never a hall to repair “puntured ego”.
Let’s wake up to the fact that the illegal immigrants in Sabah has far reaching implications on Malaysia in terms of social, security and economy and the longer the delay addressing the issue the worse it become. We dread to wake up one day to see the current various Government’s affirmative programmes had actually enriched the wrong segment of the Bumiputeras!
I sincerely hope the government is not missing the forest for the trees on this pressing issue.
In my opinion the Speaker of the House is sincere in his wishes that MPs refrain from lambasting the decisions of the Speaker or his deputies outside Parliament. He has presented his arguments and distinguished the parallels from the cases referred to by LKS.
LKS may argue till the cows come home and he may even be correct in his arguments but the point is do we reduce the proceedings of the August Dewan into a inter blog slanging match? Surely we need to have more dignity than that.
Compared to the previous speakers n his deputies this one, FOR NOW, is much better n fairer. He has made his point i.e. preserve and enhance the dignity of the Dewan and also improve the quality of debates. Futile to have developed nation facilities without quality MPs with quality speeches n substantive debates, condition precedents to a dignified and respected Parliament.
Most importantly we cannot afford to have LKS suspended because he has shown every term how invaluable his contributions in Parliament are to the rakyat. Without LKS Dewan Rakyat won’t be the same. To our respected LKS : Pls consider an apology to the Speaker even though he stopped short of requesting one. This will make you even more respected by the rakyat.
Give me a freaking break. First and foremost, the Deputy Speaker did not say the issue was the difference between substantive or otherwise. The Deputy Speaker gave the reason that the issue was irrelevant.
Its like guessing the answer and then saying one was a genius when it got it right.
Also this substantive thing sounds stretching it to me anyway…
The rules and regulations have to be followed. Throw them out and you would end up with chaos in Parliament. Worse, when you become the ruling party, a bad precedent would have taken root to your own detriment. I may be wrong but I think a substantial matter like setting up a RC to look into the Sabah illegal immigrant problem cannot be brought to be discussed, debated and voted on in the manner Kit has attempted. Anyway, there is nothing wrong after analysing the matter further to withdraw all adverse comments if the move is confirmed to be in error and then in the next session, give the required 14-day notice. Uncle Kit, you have tried your level best and I think all Malaysians, especially Sabahans, appreciate what you have done.
Theres a saying around 15 years ago on how a Malaysian Non Bumiputera could become a bumiputera in 5 years, I have not witness this myself but I somehow feel this is true.
1. Malaysian (Non Bumi) goes to Indonesia and gets a PR & citizenship.
2. Changes the name in Indonesia, assuming a muslim name or native malay name.
3. Apply for Residenship in Sabah with papers from Indonesia (some cases you need to be present in Malaysia)
4. All of this are done within 5 years without setting foot in Sabah.
I agree that the Parliamentary Speaker as President of the House has powers to suspend MPs. The Parliament in 1995 (during TDM’s time) amended its rules to strengthen the power of the Speaker. That power is always wielded sparingly to rein in errant MPs whose antics frustrate debate and exercise of freedom of speech in the House.
Kit’s behavior has been exemplary in Parliament. So there is no ground to suspend him in these respects.
The only justification for suspending LKS for criticizing Deputy Speaker, Datuk Ronald Kiandee’s ruling (not to allow your amendment motion to establish a Royal Commission of Inquiry to 30-year problem of illegal immigrants in Sabah) in this blog (if there were one) has to then rest on surer foundation that his criticism of the Deputy Speaker (outside Parliament) and in this blog constitutes a Contempt of Parliament.
However the first question is – does it so constitute?
Under what standing order and which provision of the House of Parliament (Privileges and Powers) Act does it say that writing a criticism of a Speaker’s ruling outside Parliament in a blog constitutes contempt of Parliament????
It is not as if the publication of any report or statement purporting to be a report of the proceedings of the House outside Parliament – in this blog – to the public has been expressly prohibited by order of the House. If this had been the case then LKS might be sen as flouting or contravening Parliament’s express will.
However, there is no such prohibition. Reporters write routinely on debates in the House. Its proceedings are even televised!
I don’t recall Parliament by majority has resolved that the 30-year problem of illegal immigrants in Sabah debated in the House could not be published outside the House.
If that’s the case how can a Deputy Speaker ruling against such a motion – and by extension Kit’s criticism of that ruling – be prohibited from being published outside the House, or the publication of which in this Blog being construed as Contempt of Parliament?
You mean to tell me that if the Prime Minister’s conduct in Parliament can be criticized in the blog outside the House, the Deputy Speaker’s conduct in Parliament could not? If that were so the Deputy Speaker is more important than the Prime Minister and the latter would envy the former!
More so if the criticism (even outside Parliament) was fair comment, with no bad faith and made with an intent to correct a possible error of ruling made by the Deputy Speaker suspected by Kit to be inconsistent with Parliamentary precedents or convention.
Kit’s repeat of criticism outside the House in this blog is a matter of overarching public interest – to educate the public on parliamentary procedures, so what’s wrong with that?
It is not defamatory : if it were the Deputy Speaker could sue him for defamation as Kit does not enjoy immunity outside Dewan Rakyat. However there is hint of anyone claiming to be defamed.
So where is the Contempt of Parliament for issue of suspension to arise in the first place???
We don’t live in age of Despotic English Kings : so lets not seek precedents from ages past to show that criticising the Deputy Speaker’s ruling on rational grounds is grave challenge to dignity of Parliament. In fact to debate and criticise Speaker’s ruling is every much part of democratic process of educational importance to lay public unfamiliar with Parliamentary procedures.
This is not an issue of whether who is (technically) right or wrong regarding whether Royal Commission of Inquiry to 30-year problem of illegal immigrants in Sabah is a substantive or subsidiary motion.
Whoever right or wrong, the issue is whether if the Ipoh Timur MP thinks differently from the Deputy Speaker and criticises his ruling outside Parliament in this blog – has the Ipoh Timur MP committed any defiance of Parliamentary will, has he committed any Contempt of Parliament for him to be subject to an ultimatum of either he corrected his blog post criticising the Deputy Speaker or face suspension?
On what basis is there to infer a Parliamentary offence for a threat of suspension to be justified? This is what I like to know.
Well, this is a good lesson to those people who looked down on the Speaker and his deputy. He has shown that he knows his procedures (right or wrong that’s another matter).
I am not a lawyer or an expert in the Parliamentary procedures but my impression is that the Speaker’s response was pretty comprehensive and articulate.
That LKS did not open up another thread and attack the Speaker again immediately perhaps a silent admission in the substance in the argument.
We certainly wouldn’t want YB Kit suspended from the parliament again. Despite his increasingly erratic behaviour, the national interests best served with LKS inside and not outside the august house.
And BTW I am still waiting for YB Kit to provide evidence and data that he fought consistently for Sabah issues in the years he was in the Parliament. If he does that, I will certainly offer my apologies.
While LKS is wasting precious time on trivial issues,the very Islamisation that we were so worried about is not just creeping but rearing its branches strongly up north…
—————————————————————
SIK: The Kedah government plans to create separate zones for men and women at recreational and tourism spots in the state.
Menteri Besar Azizan Abdul Razak said for a start, he would ask the state tourism committee to propose the creation of separate zones at the Ulu Legong Hot Springs Recreational Centre.
He said the Baling District Council, which managed the recreational centre, would be asked to create the separate zones, so that visitors could bathe in comfort.
“Even in Western countries, there are separate zones for men and women at such recreational centres,” he said after officiating at the new site of a religious school in Kampung Bandar Hilir yesterday. – Bernama
What do you have to say about this development and also the statements by DCM1 of Penang and Perak MB that they are looking at Kelantan for inspiration ?
I really hope that by voting for DAP, the non Muslim rights have not been sold to PAS.
#88 by limkamput on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 12:20 am
I post his earlier, and I repost here:
It is not for the speaker or his deputy to decide what the Parliament ought to speak or ought not to speak on substantive issues. I just know it is for the Parliament to debate and decide on all matters concerning Malaysia, including even constitutional provisions.
I am talking politics here, not legal, technical, procedural and rules which can all be made to subvert the true intent of the Parliament or to suit the power that be. I say forget it. I have no time to debate over the power of the speaker (or his deputy) to reject substantive motions. The speaker or the deputy are mere house keepers to ensure orderly conduct of the house, not to decide on substantive matters that the members can or can not speak on. That to me was engineered over the years through abuse of power of the majority over the minority, period.
I think Sdr Lim was trying very hard to get the motion through by incorporating it in “the motion of thanks” and not through private motion which we all know will not see the light of the day.
To you lawyers and lawyer wannabes out there, I think we all know when a rule is a rule and when a rule is meant to stifle and frustrate your opponent.
#89 by blink4blog on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 1:26 am
I personally think the Chair of Speaker really exercise his dream to chair first class Parliament of Malaysia. His advices to YB LKS is on good will basis, whether YB LKS will accept or otherwise is his profession and not to me to comment.
Where such advices also drive a good example that people hate to see our Parliament behave like a zoo especially during debating sessions. It is all duty to maintain the freedom of Parliament TV session to the public as this including viewers from overseas or embassy situated here.
I don’t see the Chairman has any politic agenda behind his advices as if the rule of Parliament has stated such ruling he has full rights to exercise them, but instead he give advices.
On the matter whether the motion to approve the debates on the 2 issues as mentioned by YB LKS is another subject to decides.
#91 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 1:50 am
“The speaker or the deputy are mere house keepers ..”
Let’s show respect to the office he holds. The Speaker presides over debates and deals over matters regarding procedures. He is more than just a house keeper!
#93 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 2:00 am
“I think we all know when a rule is a rule and when a rule is meant to stifle and frustrate your opponent.”
Rules are made for a purpose – and in this case it is not to “stifle and frustrate’. The issue here is in the interpretation and application of those rules. If rules are vague and are subject to different interpretations, and bearing in mind the objective of those rules, then they will have to be amended.
The Speaker of the house should be non-partisan, hence does not partake in debate or voting (other than to break ties but subjected to certain rules and regulations). The Speaker of the house also performs administrative functions and must be a constituency MP. This administrative functions usually being staffing/HR functions and day to day administration of all who serve the House.
The question is if the powers of the Speaker or the deputies extend beyond the House ? Can the Speaker of the House suspend MPs for commenting outside the House. Around the dinner table ? With family members ? Private journals that were stolen and somehow published in the website ? How about when the media twist their words or speech ?
#97 by HaiHiung on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 7:27 am
I disagree that this Pandikar Amin Mulia was being fair. He was using technicalities of the wordings in LKS’s motion of amendment to cite slight differences of the manner the amendment was tabled to justify the deputy speaker Ronald Kiandee’s action. The whole justification process was an afterthought based on differences of wordings and what the wordings meant, not on the issue, but on how the issue was presented.
This is not upholding of Parliament’s rule but an outright abuse of it. The purpose of upholding Parliament’s rule is to ensure an environment where discerning views could be expressed, whereas in this case, it was used to stiffen a motion that has serious consequences on Malaysia Sovereignty.
So, know these two names: Pandikar Amin Mulia and Ronald Kiandee; they have used technicalities to shoot down efforts of defending Malaysia Sovereignty.
#99 by blablowbla on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 8:44 am
our speakers are like mentally retarded ppl,same brand with EC chairman,AG,CJ,IGP,most of the BN’s MPs,GLC’s MDs,Universities’ cancellors,Mayors,PBT’s Heads,KSUs,……blablabla………..useless idiots all became our ‘leaders’,sigh!sigh!sigh!
‘”Hello undergrad2, He was deliberating on matters of procedure to deny debate on substantive matters. I think i am clear about that.”
Hence the matter is over procedures!
If you’re considering to accept the ‘offer’ by mail, so there could be a binding contract, then the issue is whether accepting the ‘offer’ by mail is the approprite method of communication under the circumstances. It is not about what is being offered.
#102 by limkamput on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 10:46 am
Mr. Undergrad2, I understand. That is why many seeking justice in court are saying it is like a walking in the maze. Look like now MPs may have to do the same in Parliament when seeking justice for the people they represent. Gua boh kam wan lah. All these phua tang sai people “wayang kuliting” only. Really so difficult meh, motion within the motion, substantive, subsidiary, group or individual. keh kong only lah. Cheah leow bee.
#103 by cheng on soo on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 11:36 am
undergrad2 Says:
Today at 08: 49.43 (2 hours ago)
‘”Hello undergrad2, He was ……..about that.”
Hence ……. offered.
Wakarimasta? should be “Wakarimashita.”
Just to let u know “Wakarimashita” very seldom end with “?”
It means “understood.” When in question type, it should be “Wakarimashitaka ?” Hope No offence !
#106 by cheng on soo on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 12:10 pm
Mr / Ms moderator,
Why must moderate my earlier comment on Japanese word,
Are U also practising “ONLY A JAPANESE CAN EXPLAIN ON JAPANESE WORD” ?? so U must consult a Japanese ??
“And BTW I am still waiting for YB Kit to provide evidence and data that he fought consistently for Sabah issues in the years he was in the Parliament. If he does that, I will certainly offer my apologies.”
Kit has already posted that he has done so over the years.
Crawl back to the UMNO hole that you dug yourself out of.
#1 by penangboy on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 10:47 pm
You gotta be joking….This is really a joke now…(parliament!)
#2 by budak on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 11:02 pm
Yang Di-Pertua,
if u tak suka, u boleh keluar n cakap dalam akhbar or blogs…
dun anyhow kick my MP keluar Parlimen…
he’s PEOPLE MP not appointed by BN…
n he bring out real case for the Malaysian…
dun anyhow pin point him, if Parliament cannot speak, where WE can speak-up our mind and concerns…
#3 by bentoh on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 11:13 pm
Hmmm… nasihat saja… YB Ipoh Timor should follow… :P
so that parliament can now champion for ketuanan speaker… :D
anyway… I think the speaker is sincere in his advice… but is that wrong to criticize the (deputy) speaker? I don’t think so…~~
#4 by budak on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 11:27 pm
yes, WE can take advise…
but dun kick him out anyhow… can bor… :-)
we’re 1st world people, 1st world mentality…
#5 by Jong on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 11:29 pm
Well I think Speaker is quite fair, called for co-operation of all MPs to make Malaysian Parliament a world class Parliament. That’s reasonable.
YB Kit should feel most flattered that he’s reading your blog! :D
#6 by mendela on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 11:29 pm
If Kit is suspended, rakyat of Malaysia will run amok!
Malaysia will be in turmoil.
#7 by xtheman on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 11:35 pm
Both speaker 2×5 and 5×2. Both are ate BN nasi so you can expect them to be like BN fella.
Is LKS doing any wrong to try to bring up the real issue in Sabah ? Is he telling lie ? Answer is NO . What the hact is wrong here than ?
The deputy speaker is not acting fairly …. and what he did ? he he do not want to listen and taking side. SHAME !!
#8 by bra888 on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 11:45 pm
Well, I guess that means that LKS must post more evidence.
If LKS should be suspended, I believe that Mohd Ali Rustam should be suspended too. I believe that his blogs is biased, consist of slanders, and does not have any evidence or statistic to support any of his claims.
#9 by messy on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 11:46 pm
a blog is a place for a person to have a free-will of speech
not to be kicked out of parliament!!!
but at least Speaker reads ur blog YB…
feel proud and honored…
keep doing up the good work because ur blog is our only supply of parliament news
all newspaper is controlled by the government!!!
#10 by yhsiew on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 11:54 pm
Kit,
Just blog on………….
#11 by darcwil on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 11:56 pm
You know what, very the geram to listen YB Lim speak Malay, trying to struggle to understand what he is saying. But you did your best, we know.
I see that the speaker is being democratic. and so is YB Kit Siang. The point is, YB must have more proof when posting stuff. And yes, it just goes to show that there ARE people scouring the blogs and it should be known fact that people should be aware of what they are posting online.
#12 by badak on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 12:19 am
Suspend so what…After all our parliament is just a farce.Talk about demorcrecy. As long as you apple polish the BN you are OK. The minute you tell the truth. Mr ISA, Mr OSA, Mr OE will be waiting to see you.Have you guys saw the TV3 news yesterday and today.That is BN way of demorcrecy.
#13 by pgsilai on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 12:35 am
BN is a sick party! Send them for a course on Democracy, they don’t understand that word! What is a blog , is a place people air out their views freely. BN you are lopsided, you people just can’t walk straight!
#14 by BryanChoong on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 12:51 am
Uncle Kit;
You really know your stuff. Keep up the Good Work!
Keep Blogging too with all the Great Stuff. At least we know that all the Special Branch & Speaker & Entire BN are reading your Blog.
You are in the IVY LEAGUE & Better than MSM>
All the Best Uncle Kit & Please Defend Sabah from Influx of Aliens!
Pengetua/HeadMaster You a Cute Teddy Bear better than your Deputy! Give Uncle Kit A Chance, OK!
DEAL OR NO DEAL! We Love You Uncle Kit
#15 by ShiokGuy on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 12:53 am
Without Prejudice!
I dont think the speaker is going to suspend LKS.
But i think it will be a lot of political mileage if LKS is suspended.
Dear Mr Speaker, as a layman I think urgent issue need to jump queue. Just like an ambulance need to turn on the siren and others simply has to give way. Off cos you are in position to decide if the issue is important or not. From what i see on the debate on TV, the issue is thousand time more urgent than all those issues raise so far.
But still you have the power to make it NOT Urgent! You just think about what you have just done, do you not think you let you people down? The people of Sabah down.
Btw, you have a very strong accent. Does Sabahan has a strong accent like Indonesian? Just my opinion!
Shiok Guy
http://shiokguy.blogspot.com/
#16 by bra888 on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 12:57 am
I believe that the YANG DIPERTUA IS GUILTY OF BEING BIASED. If he just condemn opposition bloggers, that is already evidence for my claim.
He should take a look at Mohd Ali Rustam’s blog. To me, I can’t even log in to post a comment in his (Mohd Ali Rustam) blog. That blogger is denying the reader’s right to voice up. That isn’t a leader material.
At least LKS is open and allows discussions among the readers whether the readers support LKS or is against LKS.
#17 by limkamput on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 1:00 am
All these technicalities – substantive, subsidiary, individual and group motions. May be someone was just trying to show he has done his research and therefore he knew better. Rightly, Parliament is the place for MPs to highlight issues and debate on them. All these restrictions, rules and procedures, if carried to the extreme, are nothing more than mechanism to stifle dissent.
#18 by harrisonbinhansome on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 1:04 am
What a travesty. Sorry, I am at lost for words. I just thought that the Government is more tolerant towards responsible free-speech. This is a shame and a disgrace to all Malaysians who loves and believes in democracy.
#19 by badak on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 1:05 am
TRY blogging on any BN BLOGS..No way you can get in a negative comment.BN ,s kind of demorcresy
#20 by ENDANGERED HORNBILL on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 1:08 am
It’s an ‘uphill’ task for any Speaker to act with inherent integrity and be utterly unbiased in his stance because he is there by dint of his appointment from amongst the ranks of the ruling party. This will always be a weakness of the Westminster model of Parliamentary democracy.
What YB kit raised is both thoroughly pertinent and thoroughbred substantive in nature. At this point the Speaker has not explained why he thinks it is not substantive and merely ‘subsidiary’. Did I hear him right? The recording is faint. Or is my PC speakers playing the poltergeist!
Anyway, YB KIt: keep pressing on as you’ve the people’s best interests at heart and specifically, in this context, the people of Sabah owes you a round of applause for championing their interests at a time when BN had been scatterbrained over the last 2 decades or more in Sabah. Kudos to you, YB Kit.
#21 by lew1328 on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 1:09 am
Dear, YB. Kit
When they’re suspended your present in the parliament, it means that they care about your blog and they’re aware of the truth.
They knew that they’d failed the people of Sabah. What’s a shame on them?
Instead of putting the productive ideas in the parliament debating, they’ve repeatedly wasting time by disputed your “Bahasan”. This is obviously wasting the “Rakyat” money again.
From my advice to you earlier, please putting more efforts in your strong holds and grabbing your other MP stars whose carry weight and winning the people heart there instead of wasting time talk about Sabah. Set up a good example in the state that you’re comfortable with. I still think Penang is the best state that you shall start those activities.
Best regards.
#22 by peterchiang on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 1:28 am
What happen to suspension if suddenly PM call for flash election?
#23 by pohsoon on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 1:33 am
Frankly speaking, i don’t really undestand what the Yang Dipertua trying to say after i listen to those conversation. Putar Beliknya.
Is it true that being critic degrade our parliment while keep quiet and being a YES man make our parliment first class? If it is so, then no wonder that historically, new law or amendment to the law can be amended in Malaysia parliment within 10 minute!!
One of the reason that Yang Dipertua given was that there are many other things to be debated, and the time available are limited. Thus the motion presented by Mr Lim Kit Siang can’t be debated.
What a nonsense? Isn’t whether time should be alocated or not depend on the important of the issue? Further more, the motion say “Substantial”, which mean it is something important. Isn’t it?
#24 by pohsoon on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 1:39 am
Btw, Yang Dipertua, you mentioned that you are not able to defend for yourself as you can’t blog. Frankly speaking, i’m not sure how true it is.
However, MR Lim Kit Siang had been kind to you. He had posted your defend speach (which although sound “putar belik” to me) on his blog. Fair right?
#25 by sheriff singh on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 2:53 am
Can we have some “first class speakers” for a “first world parliament”?
#26 by Jeffrey on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 5:23 am
///All these technicalities – substantive, subsidiary, individual and group motions….All these restrictions, rules and procedures, if carried to the extreme, are nothing more than mechanism to stifle dissent./// – limkamput
As much as technicalities may be used as a mechanism to stifle dissent, so they can be used to liberate and unshackle freedom of speech. Unfortunately in an increasingly complex world in which everything becomes governed by rules and procedures, one cannot escape them but have to be familiar with and grasp them. If one does not even get procedures right, the substance of a matter can’t even be raised.
Like it or not nowadays more than ever, the world, public and political affairs and great constitutional issues of the day are governed by rules – substantive, subsidiary, individual and group motions… restrictions, rules and procedures – and the one who knows and interprets them best over his adversary prevails on what could be done or what may not, whether this is a right or a mere privilege etc…. Restrictions, rules and procedures and law are ignored at one’s peril. See the disproportionate influence lawyers have in public and political affairs of the US, a so-called nation of laws and the developed world…
In this exchange, YB Kit studied law but so did his opponent Speaker of Parliament, Tan Sri Pandikar Amin whom, I believe, studied law at Birmingham University and whose first posting on his return to Sabah, was legal officer in the Forestry Department.…So all these substantive, subsidiary, individual and group motions….
One person who has no patience for all these rules and technicalities is – TDM. He’d say what’s all these ??? and would want to cut the chase and have his way. Eventually it is all these rules and technicalities that he has the greatest disdain that will entrap him (reference being made here to revelations of RCI on Lingam, his response and Karpal’s police report lodged).
#27 by isahbiazhar on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 5:32 am
They will not suspend you.It is just a perceived idea.We have to wait and see.If suspended, the reaction can be serious.
#28 by CheeseBall on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 6:47 am
Lol. Again, does this surprise anyone at all?
Mr Lim, please take this move by UMNO/BN as a compliment to your capabilities, as they have just escalated you to the next threat level to their survival and existance.
Regardless of whether the spoilt “bullies” have “kicked you out of the kindergarten sandbox”, just continue with your blog and other achievements. You don’t have to be seen in a c-grade type “parliament movie” to make a difference with the real people of Malaysia.
As for UMNO/BN: Seen and heard, but nothing ever happens.
Great work Mr Lim!
#29 by undergrad2 on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 7:10 am
“It’s an ‘uphill’ task for any Speaker to act with inherent integrity and be utterly unbiased in his stance because he is there by dint of his appointment from amongst the ranks of the ruling party. This will always be a weakness of the Westminster model of Parliamentary democracy.” HORNBILL
Unlike the Speaker of the House of Representatives in the U.S. (who is second in line to the President after the V.P.) our Speaker presides over debates. But isn’t he required to renounce his political affiliations once elected?
#30 by AhPek on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 7:46 am
What will they think of next?
#31 by Justicewanted on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 7:54 am
The “Ketuanan” mentality of UMNOputra where I am the master or Tuan and you cannot question or say anything bad against me except ‘bodek’ me….
So childish…… and please grow up….
Instead of threatening to suspend, use your “ketuanan” intelligence to argue back.
#32 by richard.wong8 on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 8:16 am
This is the biggest joke of the century! Perhaps the speaker is behind time and needs to go back to the future.
I can imagine what next?
#33 by Mr Smith on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 8:29 am
Looks like we have got the worst Speaker this country had ever had.
Since MPs cannot criticize him, htne let us do the criticizing.
#34 by dawsheng on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 8:35 am
With BN as the government, our parliament is still a circus.
#35 by lupus on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 8:35 am
We should remember the power of blogging in Malaysia political landscape. It had effected BN 2/3 in Parliament and hence, it is something for BN to worry about. I for one would like a balance view point from both BN and PR but it is impossible unless Malaysian Media is free to report the situation as it, Live telecast of Parliament and an open door policy for all citizens of Malaysia into Parliament.
Yes, some will argue that open media will invite lots of other problems but what is the difference in the current situation ?
Until such time BN accepts that people will both support and condemn the ruling party of the day, we will always practice as a PM once said – “Asian Democracy”
#36 by k1980 on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 8:50 am
Then AAB should be suspended from Parliament because of Pedra Branca
#37 by kurt82 on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 8:57 am
“Democracy is a system of government by which political sovereignty is retained by the people and either exercised directly by citizens or through their elected representatives. It is derived by from the Greek ?????????? ([demokratia] (help·info)), “popular government”[1] which was coined from ????? (d?mos), “people” and ?????? (kratos), “rule, strength” in the middle of the 5th century BC to denote the political systems then existing in some Greek city-states, notably Athens.
In political theory, democracy describes a small number of related forms of government and also a political philosophy. Even though there is no universally accepted definition of ‘democracy’, there are two principles that any definition of democracy is required to have. The first principle is that all members of the society have equal access to power and the second that all members enjoy universally recognised freedoms and liberties.”
BN – Please understand this before you say anything
#38 by cheng on soo on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 9:15 am
If like that, then whenever BN want to amend constitution, look for slightest reasons to suspend 13 or 14 PR MP, then can amend lah !
#39 by taiking on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 9:28 am
Cowboys and Clowns can certainly do better and are definitely more refined in their ways.
#40 by yhsiew on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 9:49 am
The Speaker should not turn an official debate into a private affair and use it to retaliate against LKS.
He should understand that in this modern time, people all over the world are opening up and craving for more freedom of expression (hence we have blogs and YOUTUBE). The Speaker should be open-minded and not be left behind in this tide of modernization!
#41 by ShiokGuy on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 10:13 am
What freedom of expression?
I remember if we don’t allow Annos comment in our blog, reader tend not willing to comment. Rocky Bru tried to stop annos posting with nickname (still consider P&C since we can choose any nickname we like), but still faced resistance.
What freedom of expression? my view here
http://shiokguy.blogspot.com/2008/05/freedom-of-expression.html
Shiok Guy
#42 by ShiokGuy on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 10:15 am
The time wasted by the speaker on LKS is better spend for other important issue. For example the Real Life Malaysian Inflation Rate
My view here
http://shiokguy.blogspot.com/2008/05/real-life-malaysian-inflation-rate.html
YB, please bring this issue out! I hope it is urgent and substantial :P
Shiok Guy
#43 by monsterball on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 11:06 am
Lim Kit Siang will always be the main target for UMNO ..in every opportunity they can find.
Especially now…in Parliament..with 82 oppositions….shut Lim’s mouth….is like taking away the leader of the 82 pieces band.
That’s what UMNO is always good at…bullying others and protect it’s own devils in disguise as Malaysians.
Yes..like one commentator said..this is a plus sign… for Lim. Malaysians are no fools.
Democracy by UMNO government is a laughing stock to the whole world.
Mr.Speaker is paving his way…to wait for Lim ….to make one false move..then ban him from Parliament…and I suggest Lim….don’t change his legendary style…..to see what this Mr.Speaker going to do about it.
He should learn to keep saying..’order…order..order”…..like Great Britain….and encourage freedom of speeches…..not keep telling speakers…this or that is out of line…like bloody school teacher.
Did I hear him say…that he wants our Parliament to be first class??? First class what?? First class hypocrites??
I wonder…how many first class Parliaments… from USA..Germany……and Britain….talk like our Malaysian Mr. Speaker.
Ah yes….great for Lim..to tell him to start his own blog…..be the first Mr. Speaker to do so. After all…UMNO claims ..”Malaysia Boleh”….ini .itu…so why not be the first Mr. Speaker to start his own blog??
#44 by sheriff singh on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 11:13 am
Bottom line – what is being done to solve the illegal immigrants issue by anyone else – substantive, subsidiary, individual and group wise?
#45 by rainbowseahorse on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 11:23 am
The REAL PROBLEM in Sabah IS NOT the “illegal immigrants”. Please take note of this.
True, there are still vast numbers of illegal immigrants in Sabah living & working without proper documents and is a problem to Sabah. But the REAL and VERY MUCH BIGGER PROBLEM to Sabah is the economic immigrants who were issued IC and then MyKad and who effectively have became Constitutional BUMIPUTRAS in Sabah. In rough estimates, they numbered two to one over the real Sabahans. This is the issue that should be addressed first and foremost over those illegal immigrants without documents as they can be weeded out with concerted efforts by enforcement personnel (but which is not being pursued at the moment).
#46 by i_love_malaysia on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 11:36 am
The Speaker is reading LKS blog to find out the TRUTH here instead of parliament!!! as he knows very well that BN MPs will not speak the truth in parliament and PR MPs were not allowed to speak out!!! so the only way for him to get the TRUTH & ways to answer the opposition objection is by reading this blog earlier to prepare for the objection!!! else he might be loss for words when opposition objected!!! This blog will help to generate ideas for both BN & PR MPs what to say in Parliament!!!
#47 by cvl on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 11:38 am
Suspending LKS for blogging out a pertinent national issue on the illegal migrant is in Sabah will bring about better mileage for the subject. This seems to more damaging to the BN, and would best be left status quo.
Meanwhile more and more Sabahan should show their views on this subject, as Yong Teck Lee is doing in the Daily Express today 27 May.
#48 by i_love_malaysia on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 11:44 am
Do you know why AAB chosed Sabahan as Speaker & Deputy Speakers??? the reason is other than balance of allocations for Sabahan MPs, but he also used the same tactics as TDM when choosing him to be the PM i.e. that they will be obedient servants to him without question asked!!! Sabah is not only lacking behind other states in terms of economy but also the quality of its MPs!!!
#49 by penang308 on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 12:12 pm
Remember! We are living in “BOLEHLAND”…apa pun boleh, semua boleh EXCEPT FAIRNESS!
If you speak something that is not the their liking…not only they kick you out of Parliment, they can report you to the police and charge you under Sedition, ISA, OSA etc.
Remember! who appointed the Speaker? How can he be Neutral!
The only way out is to change the GOVERNMENT!
#50 by justice_fighter on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 12:34 pm
It’s time to change the hypocrite federal government and appoint a neutral and open-minded speaker.
#51 by justice_fighter on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 12:35 pm
Another international laughing stock from the corrupted and incompetent BN government.
#52 by kingkenny on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 12:45 pm
To be honest, “that” speaker look to me like he is reading from a “well prepared” script, wonder “who” gave it to him??!
Change the government, then he will be out of a job that deserves someone more neutral, fair, high integrity, knowledgeable, RESPECTABLE, wise.
Low substance this “man”.
His “taukeh” is also arrogant, stupid & ignorant!
They even berani to do this kind of stuffs in this digital world & show their “skills” to every body!
Jurassic Park pinya olang!!!
#53 by zack on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 12:52 pm
anyway… I think the speaker is sincere in his advice… but is that wrong to criticize the (deputy) speaker?
…. It is not about whether MPs can or cannot criticise the speaker but it’s about where do the MPs do it? MPs must criticize the speaker or whoever in the DEWAN! But if they do it out of the DEWAN then the MPs have committed an offense …
#54 by Saint on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 1:09 pm
Saudara Kit, at the end of the day, it is what we want to achieve.
Please give a 14 notice on the Sabah matter, (even to be debated at the next sitting) and move the motion. I am sure the speaker also has his problems within his party. Thus it is a good advise, take it and let us achieve what we really want – to solve the problem of the Sabah people.
#55 by grace on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 1:25 pm
‘Is LKS doing any wrong to try to bring up the real issue in Sabah ? Is he telling lie ? Answer is NO . What the hact is wrong here than ?’
Aiya, they are not interested in solving problems. Most BN MPs would be too happy if the likes of LKS, Karpal or LGE are suspened so that they can ponteng too. As it is they have to be present to give those half past six ministers when they are cornered by PR MPs!!
#56 by lchk on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 2:21 pm
Go ahead and suspend Kit from Parliament.
It would give even greater publicity and coverage to the shenigans of the illegal immigrant problem in Sabah.
#57 by pky103 on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 3:29 pm
– This Pandikar Amin Mulia must be the biggest joker or what?
– As with freedom of expression, YB Lim has every right to speak his mind, provided it is within the bounds of the legal framework.
– It is extremely disappointing that Pandikar Amin Mulia is playing government; curtailing this very freedom enshrined in the constitution.
#58 by a-malaysian on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 3:31 pm
From the look of it, racist umno/bn still do not get it. Speaker, deputy speakers you must act fairly. The way you act shows clearly that you are biase against the oppositions. If you think that you cannot act fairly because racist umno is watching over you, then just resign.
For you to suspend YB Kit just because he had posted and receive comments and that you do not blog is just not right.
As the posting and comments are outside of parliament you have all the rights to take action in the court of law if you are wrongly accused.
Fellow Malaysians,
It looks like by just denying the racist umno/bn the two third majority will not create any good for the country. We have to get started to prepare for GE13 to take over the Federal Government.
We have to give PR one chance to run this lovely country of ours before they are destroy by this racist umno/bn.
GE 13 – No matter what, we must ensure that umno bn do not regain the power like they had for the past fifty years.
#59 by Damocles on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 3:49 pm
Shouldn’t it be the job of the BN government to solve this long, overdue problem for the Sabahans?
Instead of having Uncle Lim fighting tooth and nails for them?
Shouldn’t the BN government be having more interests in the welfare of their citizens? Than the opposition?
Have they learnt anything from the 8th May tsunami?
And they were talking about reforms to gain back the confidence of the electorate?
#60 by cheng on soo on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 4:10 pm
Possible to regress to forbide all opposition MPs to have blog, otherwise just suspend them !
Or require them to submit an application (with stringet conditions & fees) to telecommunication ministry for a permit (charge high annual fees) to do so !
#61 by justice_fighter on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 4:12 pm
Let them ban uncle Kit, let them dig their own grave, let them destroy UMNO in GE13! Let us unite and win back the country!
#62 by Samuel Goh Kim Eng on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 4:34 pm
When most people have taken a big step forward
There are still some who choose to take three steps backward
Since they feel they can’t really measure up and feel ackward
Thinking too hard on the best choice of hospital’s ward
(C) Samuel Goh Kim Eng – 270508
http://MotivationInMotion.blogspot.com
Tue. 27th May 2008.
#63 by albert308 on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 4:38 pm
Professionalism of Dewan Rakyat Speaker at stake!
How do we achieve first world Parliament with a narrow minded speaker? The appointment of Pandikar Amin is political in ‘urgency sort’ as demand from Sabahans reach critical point following Pak Lah’s cabinet appointments MISTAKE. No merit for Pandikar Amin at all since first day sitting.
Only the first session Parliament, this ‘joker’ speaker already make bid blunder. The threat against YB LKS is uncall for and disrespectful to a senior MP!
#64 by Samuel Goh Kim Eng on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 4:38 pm
Sorry, typo error!
Please read ‘ackward’ in third line as ‘awkward’!
Thanks!
Samuel Goh Kim Eng
http://MotivationInMotion.blogspot.com
Tue. 27th May 2008.
#65 by Zeroshit on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 5:00 pm
Another useless Sabahan trying so hard not to make the true Sabahan people’s voice be heard. Kiandee, PBS, etc all seem adamant not to fix this problem. Pathetic.
#66 by i_love_malaysia on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 5:42 pm
It is an open secret that the Supreme Council of a Supreme Race party (AKA Nazi) was doing all it can for the past 30 over years to import the same Supreme Race into our country, so that their nos will ensure their forever existence on our country!!! TDM had just confirmed that!!!
#67 by alancheah on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 6:08 pm
Good Luck to Malaysia.
#68 by cvl on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 7:08 pm
The ‘Base’ by Jane Corbin is a good insight for pleasure reading while one thinks of Sabah.
#69 by HaiHiung on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 7:12 pm
This is lame… the speaker is using technicality to divert attention from the real issue at hand. The question we as the rakyat should ask this Yang Di-Pertua is what is more important, the technicality of how LKS tabled the amendment or the very real illegal immigrants that are getting MyKad everyday… and his actions have given us all the answer.
So my fellow Sabahan! Know this speaker and the deputy speaker. They do not have our concerns at heart. Tell all our friends and relatives so that we’ll know who not to vote in the next election.
#70 by cvl on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 7:17 pm
In the Lim Guang Eng -Malay Girl – Rahim case, the court sent LGE to jail on technicalities of having flouted printing acts when he took on a the plight of the under aged girl. Court found Rahim innocent.
There’s the parallel of technicalities here that the Speaker is heaping on LKS.
To common folks especially many many Sabahan, the illegal migrant is a social ill requiring expeditious attention; how many Sabahan think the technicalities the Speaker mounted on LKS is the greater eveil of the two subjects?
#71 by myint3 on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 7:38 pm
I think Speaker Pandikar was rather civil towards our beloved YB Lim, I have to admit this. There was a respectful tone between the two in their exchange. One has to agree that Speaker Pandikar is in a quandary. Nonetheless, he must realise the sanctity of his office and the house of parliament. He and his deputies should learn from Mr Tan Soo Khoon, former speaker of Singapore Parliament who was noted for his fairness and unbiased stand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tan_Soo_Khoon
We like to bash Singapore but in all fairness, they must be doing something right. Don’t you agree? How can a tiny nation with no resource can be wealthier than it’s neighbour? Absorb/learn the good things from them, of course, bad things we don’t take lah.
#72 by Jackychin on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 7:42 pm
Its frear, their fear of blogs and freedom of speach is very very loud…
#73 by ch on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 7:50 pm
Dear All,
It has been once again demonstrated to all and sundry that the authorities will not hesitate to use whatever legal avenues there are to threaten the opposition into compliance. It is amazing to find out that there are certain people in authority will conveniently set aside important issues just to redeem their “punctured ego”. We are witnessing a classic example whereby Sabah is being flooded with illegal immigrants and could very well potentially, if not already, surpass the original Sabahans. These illegal immigrants will bring about a host of social, security and economic issues for the government to combat and yet we are dilly-dallying around. What is so difficult for the authority to set up a Royal Commission on this pressing issue as suggested by YB Lim? It is a 30 year old issue and yet we can afford to drag our feet. This is simply pathetic to say the very least.
These illegal immigrants after being legitimized will enjoy the same benefits that other Bumiputeras do and it is most silly for the government to lose billions on subsidies enriching them. For all we know, there may be a few second generation Indonesians occupying important political and government posts in Malaysia already by now.
The parliament is a place for law makers to build a climate of opinion on which they could mount and devise strategies to ensure a more just, secure and competitive Malaysia. It is not a place to earn a few browny points and surely never a hall to repair “puntured ego”.
Let’s wake up to the fact that the illegal immigrants in Sabah has far reaching implications on Malaysia in terms of social, security and economy and the longer the delay addressing the issue the worse it become. We dread to wake up one day to see the current various Government’s affirmative programmes had actually enriched the wrong segment of the Bumiputeras!
I sincerely hope the government is not missing the forest for the trees on this pressing issue.
#74 by cvl on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 8:01 pm
A RCI would show if these illegal migrant could disadvantage Malaysia or otherwise.
My pov is that it would be advantageous to Malaysia; the only people who might feel disadvantage are some Sabahans.
That would be one reasons why this matter has gone for 3 decades.
#75 by m.hwang on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 8:50 pm
In my opinion the Speaker of the House is sincere in his wishes that MPs refrain from lambasting the decisions of the Speaker or his deputies outside Parliament. He has presented his arguments and distinguished the parallels from the cases referred to by LKS.
LKS may argue till the cows come home and he may even be correct in his arguments but the point is do we reduce the proceedings of the August Dewan into a inter blog slanging match? Surely we need to have more dignity than that.
Compared to the previous speakers n his deputies this one, FOR NOW, is much better n fairer. He has made his point i.e. preserve and enhance the dignity of the Dewan and also improve the quality of debates. Futile to have developed nation facilities without quality MPs with quality speeches n substantive debates, condition precedents to a dignified and respected Parliament.
Most importantly we cannot afford to have LKS suspended because he has shown every term how invaluable his contributions in Parliament are to the rakyat. Without LKS Dewan Rakyat won’t be the same. To our respected LKS : Pls consider an apology to the Speaker even though he stopped short of requesting one. This will make you even more respected by the rakyat.
#76 by kentutoyol on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 8:59 pm
If I am the speaker and my face is swollen from the severe beatings of life, I will just smile and pretend to be a fat man.
#77 by Bigjoe on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 9:35 pm
Give me a freaking break. First and foremost, the Deputy Speaker did not say the issue was the difference between substantive or otherwise. The Deputy Speaker gave the reason that the issue was irrelevant.
Its like guessing the answer and then saying one was a genius when it got it right.
Also this substantive thing sounds stretching it to me anyway…
#78 by HB Lim on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 10:16 pm
The rules and regulations have to be followed. Throw them out and you would end up with chaos in Parliament. Worse, when you become the ruling party, a bad precedent would have taken root to your own detriment. I may be wrong but I think a substantial matter like setting up a RC to look into the Sabah illegal immigrant problem cannot be brought to be discussed, debated and voted on in the manner Kit has attempted. Anyway, there is nothing wrong after analysing the matter further to withdraw all adverse comments if the move is confirmed to be in error and then in the next session, give the required 14-day notice. Uncle Kit, you have tried your level best and I think all Malaysians, especially Sabahans, appreciate what you have done.
#79 by tjwork on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 10:48 pm
Dear Lim and all,
Theres a saying around 15 years ago on how a Malaysian Non Bumiputera could become a bumiputera in 5 years, I have not witness this myself but I somehow feel this is true.
1. Malaysian (Non Bumi) goes to Indonesia and gets a PR & citizenship.
2. Changes the name in Indonesia, assuming a muslim name or native malay name.
3. Apply for Residenship in Sabah with papers from Indonesia (some cases you need to be present in Malaysia)
4. All of this are done within 5 years without setting foot in Sabah.
Does anyone have similar insights about this?
regards
#80 by Jeffrey on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 10:57 pm
I agree that the Parliamentary Speaker as President of the House has powers to suspend MPs. The Parliament in 1995 (during TDM’s time) amended its rules to strengthen the power of the Speaker. That power is always wielded sparingly to rein in errant MPs whose antics frustrate debate and exercise of freedom of speech in the House.
Kit’s behavior has been exemplary in Parliament. So there is no ground to suspend him in these respects.
The only justification for suspending LKS for criticizing Deputy Speaker, Datuk Ronald Kiandee’s ruling (not to allow your amendment motion to establish a Royal Commission of Inquiry to 30-year problem of illegal immigrants in Sabah) in this blog (if there were one) has to then rest on surer foundation that his criticism of the Deputy Speaker (outside Parliament) and in this blog constitutes a Contempt of Parliament.
However the first question is – does it so constitute?
Under what standing order and which provision of the House of Parliament (Privileges and Powers) Act does it say that writing a criticism of a Speaker’s ruling outside Parliament in a blog constitutes contempt of Parliament????
It is not as if the publication of any report or statement purporting to be a report of the proceedings of the House outside Parliament – in this blog – to the public has been expressly prohibited by order of the House. If this had been the case then LKS might be sen as flouting or contravening Parliament’s express will.
However, there is no such prohibition. Reporters write routinely on debates in the House. Its proceedings are even televised!
I don’t recall Parliament by majority has resolved that the 30-year problem of illegal immigrants in Sabah debated in the House could not be published outside the House.
If that’s the case how can a Deputy Speaker ruling against such a motion – and by extension Kit’s criticism of that ruling – be prohibited from being published outside the House, or the publication of which in this Blog being construed as Contempt of Parliament?
You mean to tell me that if the Prime Minister’s conduct in Parliament can be criticized in the blog outside the House, the Deputy Speaker’s conduct in Parliament could not? If that were so the Deputy Speaker is more important than the Prime Minister and the latter would envy the former!
More so if the criticism (even outside Parliament) was fair comment, with no bad faith and made with an intent to correct a possible error of ruling made by the Deputy Speaker suspected by Kit to be inconsistent with Parliamentary precedents or convention.
Kit’s repeat of criticism outside the House in this blog is a matter of overarching public interest – to educate the public on parliamentary procedures, so what’s wrong with that?
It is not defamatory : if it were the Deputy Speaker could sue him for defamation as Kit does not enjoy immunity outside Dewan Rakyat. However there is hint of anyone claiming to be defamed.
So where is the Contempt of Parliament for issue of suspension to arise in the first place???
We don’t live in age of Despotic English Kings : so lets not seek precedents from ages past to show that criticising the Deputy Speaker’s ruling on rational grounds is grave challenge to dignity of Parliament. In fact to debate and criticise Speaker’s ruling is every much part of democratic process of educational importance to lay public unfamiliar with Parliamentary procedures.
#81 by Jeffrey on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 11:01 pm
Sorry Typo omission – “However there is NO hint of anyone claiming to be defamed”.
#82 by mendela on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 11:05 pm
To side track, Malaysiakini reported Mahathiu landed at Subang Airport today.
Why Subang airport?
Mahathiu is still has access to Government jet?
Or is he flying using a private jet? May be a Petronas jet?
Why he still needed to spend our good money? He went to Tokyo and spoke ill things about Malaysia despite we are subsidizing his trip?
Mahathiu, go to hell!
#83 by Jeffrey on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 11:12 pm
This is not an issue of whether who is (technically) right or wrong regarding whether Royal Commission of Inquiry to 30-year problem of illegal immigrants in Sabah is a substantive or subsidiary motion.
Whoever right or wrong, the issue is whether if the Ipoh Timur MP thinks differently from the Deputy Speaker and criticises his ruling outside Parliament in this blog – has the Ipoh Timur MP committed any defiance of Parliamentary will, has he committed any Contempt of Parliament for him to be subject to an ultimatum of either he corrected his blog post criticising the Deputy Speaker or face suspension?
On what basis is there to infer a Parliamentary offence for a threat of suspension to be justified? This is what I like to know.
#84 by Killer on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 11:45 pm
Well, this is a good lesson to those people who looked down on the Speaker and his deputy. He has shown that he knows his procedures (right or wrong that’s another matter).
I am not a lawyer or an expert in the Parliamentary procedures but my impression is that the Speaker’s response was pretty comprehensive and articulate.
That LKS did not open up another thread and attack the Speaker again immediately perhaps a silent admission in the substance in the argument.
We certainly wouldn’t want YB Kit suspended from the parliament again. Despite his increasingly erratic behaviour, the national interests best served with LKS inside and not outside the august house.
#85 by Killer on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 11:47 pm
And BTW I am still waiting for YB Kit to provide evidence and data that he fought consistently for Sabah issues in the years he was in the Parliament. If he does that, I will certainly offer my apologies.
#86 by Killer on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 11:51 pm
While LKS is wasting precious time on trivial issues,the very Islamisation that we were so worried about is not just creeping but rearing its branches strongly up north…
—————————————————————
SIK: The Kedah government plans to create separate zones for men and women at recreational and tourism spots in the state.
Menteri Besar Azizan Abdul Razak said for a start, he would ask the state tourism committee to propose the creation of separate zones at the Ulu Legong Hot Springs Recreational Centre.
He said the Baling District Council, which managed the recreational centre, would be asked to create the separate zones, so that visitors could bathe in comfort.
“Even in Western countries, there are separate zones for men and women at such recreational centres,” he said after officiating at the new site of a religious school in Kampung Bandar Hilir yesterday. – Bernama
#87 by Killer on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 11:53 pm
YB Kit
What do you have to say about this development and also the statements by DCM1 of Penang and Perak MB that they are looking at Kelantan for inspiration ?
I really hope that by voting for DAP, the non Muslim rights have not been sold to PAS.
#88 by limkamput on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 12:20 am
I post his earlier, and I repost here:
It is not for the speaker or his deputy to decide what the Parliament ought to speak or ought not to speak on substantive issues. I just know it is for the Parliament to debate and decide on all matters concerning Malaysia, including even constitutional provisions.
I am talking politics here, not legal, technical, procedural and rules which can all be made to subvert the true intent of the Parliament or to suit the power that be. I say forget it. I have no time to debate over the power of the speaker (or his deputy) to reject substantive motions. The speaker or the deputy are mere house keepers to ensure orderly conduct of the house, not to decide on substantive matters that the members can or can not speak on. That to me was engineered over the years through abuse of power of the majority over the minority, period.
I think Sdr Lim was trying very hard to get the motion through by incorporating it in “the motion of thanks” and not through private motion which we all know will not see the light of the day.
To you lawyers and lawyer wannabes out there, I think we all know when a rule is a rule and when a rule is meant to stifle and frustrate your opponent.
#89 by blink4blog on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 1:26 am
I personally think the Chair of Speaker really exercise his dream to chair first class Parliament of Malaysia. His advices to YB LKS is on good will basis, whether YB LKS will accept or otherwise is his profession and not to me to comment.
Where such advices also drive a good example that people hate to see our Parliament behave like a zoo especially during debating sessions. It is all duty to maintain the freedom of Parliament TV session to the public as this including viewers from overseas or embassy situated here.
I don’t see the Chairman has any politic agenda behind his advices as if the rule of Parliament has stated such ruling he has full rights to exercise them, but instead he give advices.
On the matter whether the motion to approve the debates on the 2 issues as mentioned by YB LKS is another subject to decides.
Let’s see whats following…
#90 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 1:44 am
Heard of the expression ‘spirit of the law’ and ‘letter of the law’?
#91 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 1:50 am
“The speaker or the deputy are mere house keepers ..”
Let’s show respect to the office he holds. The Speaker presides over debates and deals over matters regarding procedures. He is more than just a house keeper!
#92 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 1:53 am
“The speaker or the deputy …not to decide on substantive matters that the members can or can not speak on.”
I believe he was deliberating on matters of procedure. Let’s get that clear!
#93 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 2:00 am
“I think we all know when a rule is a rule and when a rule is meant to stifle and frustrate your opponent.”
Rules are made for a purpose – and in this case it is not to “stifle and frustrate’. The issue here is in the interpretation and application of those rules. If rules are vague and are subject to different interpretations, and bearing in mind the objective of those rules, then they will have to be amended.
#94 by pky103 on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 2:21 am
– Why is this speaker so concerned about what MPs do in their time outside parliament?
– I find this deeply invasive.
#95 by limkamput on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 2:54 am
Hello undergrad2, He was deliberating on matters of procedure to deny debate on substantive matters. I think i am clear about that.
#96 by lupus on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 6:56 am
The Speaker of the house should be non-partisan, hence does not partake in debate or voting (other than to break ties but subjected to certain rules and regulations). The Speaker of the house also performs administrative functions and must be a constituency MP. This administrative functions usually being staffing/HR functions and day to day administration of all who serve the House.
The question is if the powers of the Speaker or the deputies extend beyond the House ? Can the Speaker of the House suspend MPs for commenting outside the House. Around the dinner table ? With family members ? Private journals that were stolen and somehow published in the website ? How about when the media twist their words or speech ?
pky103 has a valid point.
#97 by HaiHiung on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 7:27 am
I disagree that this Pandikar Amin Mulia was being fair. He was using technicalities of the wordings in LKS’s motion of amendment to cite slight differences of the manner the amendment was tabled to justify the deputy speaker Ronald Kiandee’s action. The whole justification process was an afterthought based on differences of wordings and what the wordings meant, not on the issue, but on how the issue was presented.
This is not upholding of Parliament’s rule but an outright abuse of it. The purpose of upholding Parliament’s rule is to ensure an environment where discerning views could be expressed, whereas in this case, it was used to stiffen a motion that has serious consequences on Malaysia Sovereignty.
So, know these two names: Pandikar Amin Mulia and Ronald Kiandee; they have used technicalities to shoot down efforts of defending Malaysia Sovereignty.
#98 by Jeffrey on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 8:15 am
No man can be fair when called upon to be a judge in his own cause.
#99 by blablowbla on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 8:44 am
our speakers are like mentally retarded ppl,same brand with EC chairman,AG,CJ,IGP,most of the BN’s MPs,GLC’s MDs,Universities’ cancellors,Mayors,PBT’s Heads,KSUs,……blablabla………..useless idiots all became our ‘leaders’,sigh!sigh!sigh!
#100 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 8:49 am
‘”Hello undergrad2, He was deliberating on matters of procedure to deny debate on substantive matters. I think i am clear about that.”
Hence the matter is over procedures!
If you’re considering to accept the ‘offer’ by mail, so there could be a binding contract, then the issue is whether accepting the ‘offer’ by mail is the approprite method of communication under the circumstances. It is not about what is being offered.
Wakarimasta?
#101 by happyguy on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 9:05 am
They are just as dump!!!!!
#102 by limkamput on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 10:46 am
Mr. Undergrad2, I understand. That is why many seeking justice in court are saying it is like a walking in the maze. Look like now MPs may have to do the same in Parliament when seeking justice for the people they represent. Gua boh kam wan lah. All these phua tang sai people “wayang kuliting” only. Really so difficult meh, motion within the motion, substantive, subsidiary, group or individual. keh kong only lah. Cheah leow bee.
#103 by cheng on soo on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 11:36 am
undergrad2 Says:
Today at 08: 49.43 (2 hours ago)
‘”Hello undergrad2, He was ……..about that.”
Hence ……. offered.
Wakarimasta? should be “Wakarimashita.”
Just to let u know “Wakarimashita” very seldom end with “?”
It means “understood.” When in question type, it should be “Wakarimashitaka ?” Hope No offence !
#104 by cheng on soo on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 11:39 am
Ai yoyo! simple Japanese lesson pun mahu moderation !
#105 by Killer on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 11:41 am
Yeah, that’s right.
LKS is god and DAP has divine powers. Anyone who dare to challenge them must be stupid or UMNOPutra.
Keep it up guys….
#106 by cheng on soo on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 12:10 pm
Mr / Ms moderator,
Why must moderate my earlier comment on Japanese word,
Are U also practising “ONLY A JAPANESE CAN EXPLAIN ON JAPANESE WORD” ?? so U must consult a Japanese ??
#107 by lchk on Wednesday, 28 May 2008 - 6:14 pm
Killer posted:
“And BTW I am still waiting for YB Kit to provide evidence and data that he fought consistently for Sabah issues in the years he was in the Parliament. If he does that, I will certainly offer my apologies.”
Kit has already posted that he has done so over the years.
Crawl back to the UMNO hole that you dug yourself out of.