In her Sunday Star parliamentary roundup “Lim stopped by Standing Orders” today, reporter Elizabeth Looi quoted Deputy Speaker Datuk Ronald Kiandee as confessing that he did not know whether I had spoken the truth in Parliament on Thursday when objecting to his decision to disallow my amendment to the Motion of Thanks for the Royal Address to establish a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the three-decade long illegal immigrant problem in Sabah.
I had said that Kiandee had violated all parliamentary conventions, practices and precedents in Commonwealth Parliaments as well as the Malaysian Parliament in ruling my amendment motion as “irrelevant”, pointing out that I had previously amended a Motion of Thanks for the Royal Address in the Dewan Rakyat and which was debated and voted upon, though rejected.
Kiandee made the confession when interviewed by Sunday Star for the article, as evident in the following:
Kiandee defended the decision and said it was not in any way politically influenced.
He said he would not know if Lim was telling the truth when the latter said he had been allowed to table an amendment to a motion of thanks previously.
As Deputy Speaker, Kiandee should not have acted out of ignorance, as it could be no justification for violating established parliamentary conventions, practices and precedents in Commonwealth Parliaments and the Malaysian Parliament itself, which could easily be checked whether what I had said was true.
I was not “stopped by Standing Orders” but by Kiandee who misused and abused the Standing Orders.
I had amended such a Motion of Thanks for the Royal Address in the Dewan Rakyat on 12th October 1982 and it was voted and rejected on 13th October 1982!
Clearly, Kiandee owes a public apology to the people of Sabah, Malaysia and Parliament.
Is Kiandee prepared to publicly apologise for such ignorance resulting in an atrociously bad and wrong ruling going against all parliamentary conventions, practices and precedents in the Commonwealth and in Malaysia itself as well as dashing the hopes of Sabahans and Malaysians who had dared to dream of the end of the 30-year Sabah nightmare of illegal immigrants?
#1 by kentutoyol on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 6:31 pm
Yes, that right. Kiandee must publicly apologize to Sabahans, Parliament and Malaysia and make sure such event will not happen again.
#2 by DAPPKR on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 6:39 pm
hands down
#3 by wtf2 on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 7:03 pm
Or heed the 3 strikes out – i.e. resign for incompetence. Strike #1
#4 by penangboy on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 7:16 pm
Save the 3 strikes count – hope the current BN government faces a total dissolution in the next coming weeks.
#5 by Godfather on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 7:31 pm
And Killer needs to apologise to Kit for the typical UMNO hypocrisy.
#6 by cvl on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 7:55 pm
Kaindee and Patael must have been beneficiaries of the NEP…first Patael led a disastrous outing to ICJ with a whooping bill to mount, and then kaindee missed the woods for the trees…..unfortunately both hails from Sabah…
#7 by myint3 on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 8:00 pm
Uncle Lim, for the past 2 days, The Daily Express has been running report about Sabah politicians supporting your motion. Dr Chong En Leong from PBS Supreme Council Member supported you. Today Wilfred Bumburing came out to say that as far as he knows, there was no consensus among Sabah MPs to reject your motion. He was surprised by Anifah Aman’s statement.
#8 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 8:22 pm
killer:
on medical leave today, finding marbles.
hei. you still owe YB Lim an apology.and devilmaster too.
#9 by donplaypuks on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 8:33 pm
Kiandee has made the Malaysian Parliament a laughing stock.
He has to go. We have no rrom for this kind of stupidity and partisanship.
#10 by izrafeil on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 9:09 pm
malulah… parliament juga kebanyakan orang yg kita lantik ni tak langsung pandai atau ada budi bicara…. malu sangat sebagai rakyat malaysia
#11 by Killer on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 10:46 pm
Please read the remarks from Sabah MPs. They are making the same points I did previously, “where was LKS when the issue of Sabah illegals was brought up”.
And I am still awaiting LKS to provide me with details of his motions on the issue of Sabah illegals in the Parliament.
#12 by dawsheng on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 10:53 pm
“Is Kiandee prepared to publicly apologise for such ignorance resulting in an atrociously bad and wrong ruling going against all parliamentary conventions, practices and precedents in the Commonwealth and in Malaysia itself as well as dashing the hopes of Sabahans and Malaysians who had dared to dream of the end of the 30-year Sabah nightmare of illegal immigrants?”
Kiandee is just a slave from UMNO. What can he do?
#13 by pulau_sibu on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 10:54 pm
He might have said that just in order to fool the people in Sabah, as if his decision was out of ignorance, so that there is an excuse for his wrong doing. But in real, he wanted to save his big UMNO brother. I think this is just no more than a political game.
#14 by Captain on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 11:41 pm
Kiandee has proven to be a traitor to Sabah people of the highest order. All Sabah MPs too have failed the people of Sabah. They should be pelted with rotten eggs anywhere Sabahans find them.
In the earlier entry, I forgot to write something I just came to know although I knew about Pakistanis so easily getting ICs from Sabah for the last 30 years. I am surprised it has been so easy. This guy first got an IC in early 90s. He could not get documents like p[assport why applied in KL. So in 1995, we went back to Sabah got another. This time, it worked.
In 1999, we brought his wife from Pakistan, went again to Sabah and got an IC for her. They are happily living ever since in an expensive condo in KL.
We have been hearing for the last 35 years about Govt. going to arrest the culprits involved in the Registration dept etc. but foreigners still get it so easily. How is that possible. Is the Govt blind, they can’t see Pakistanis going around the nation selling cloths and carpets, all holding malaysian ICs?
I once met a Pakistanis applied Pakistan visa at Pakistan embassy in KL. He could not speak a word of malay. I also know of a village near Peshwar, all its habitants, several thousands are holders of Malaysia IC gotten from Sabah. Ask the Malaysian High Commission in Islamabad.
If it is so easy to get IC in Sabah, imaginations about Indons and Philipinas coming in droves to get Malaysian ICs can go wild.
#15 by xtheman on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 11:55 pm
IT is really sad that this thing is happen. Why ?
I have a friend with his wife is Japanese. She has been living here for more than 8 years, still hasn’t got the PR status … while things is totally difference in Sabah. Getting “free’ IC from the BN. What the hell is going wrong with BN and those Umno guys in Sabah.
Can’t you see it wrong ? MP in sabah has damage the system badly. Shame !!
#16 by cheng on soo on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 12:42 am
May be ‘project IC’ is the BN way to solve problem of illegals in Sabah,
Just give them IC (blue or red) lah, then, no more illegal lah !
Easy easy solve lah !
#17 by mendela on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 12:43 am
Kiandee is just a toy or a puppet of UMO.
[deleted]
There is nothing Kiandee [deleted] can do other than following every instruction from the top!
#18 by mendela on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 12:45 am
BTW, can we too just ignore Killer [deleted] totally?
#19 by ENDANGERED HORNBILL on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 3:37 am
“Don’t make Malaysian Parliament a laughing-stock at Commonwealth Parliamentary Conference in KL in August”
And now:
“Kiandee owes a public apology to Parliament, Sabah and the nation”.
The rot is so familiar. The stench is so nauseating. And I thought such rot and stench could be felt only in Zimbabwe. But, no; it’s here and it’s real.
#20 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 6:27 am
dear mendela,
ok. agreed with you. but IT is a torn in the flesh.
will ignore killer ( who claims to know more ).( who claims to i told you so ).
#21 by cvl on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 7:05 am
The fact a common denominator to get an the bunga raya ic in Sabah is religion. There is prize in guessing why…
#22 by kerishamuddinitis on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 7:08 am
Hi Mendela & Adam Yong, yeah, agreed… it’s time to totally ignore
a BN running dog who is like broken-down record repeating statements and proclaiming ‘foresight’ after having merely toed the official BN-UMNO party/gomen line on so many issues here.
I am interested to see what the Sabah MP’s will do now.
Cross-over is the only option left for real affirmative action and not to continue to receive handouts and crumbs from the BN-UMNO table like well-conditioned running dogs.
#23 by Godfather on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 7:29 am
Killer, stop parroting your boss, Sleepy Head. For the past 5 years, our conversations with your boss has been like this:
Me: Tell me what you have done ?
Bodohwi: I need more time.
Me: List down your achievements.
Bodohwi: I have work to do.
Me: What work have you done?
Bodohwi: I have a strong mandate from the rakyat.
You see, your boss is still in dreamland, and cannot even answer basic questions. Same goes for you. You are indeed a good disciple of Bodohwi.
CEMERLANG, GEMILANG, TEMBERANG – THE SLOGAN OF UMNO.
#24 by Jeffrey on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 8:27 am
One can’t accuse Deputy Speaker Datuk Ronald Kiandee of partisanship or lacking neutrality if one accepts, at the same time, his “confession” to being unfamiliar with parliamentary convention and precedents. Also one could not impute incompetence based on just one single occasion of error and slip when he is “new” to the job and still in the learning curve….
So the question is what is the appropriate response (in light of these ‘mitigating’ considerations) to a Parliamentary Speaker who readily admitted that he was unfamiliar with parliamentary conventions and yet refused to apologise at the same time?
#25 by carboncopy on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 8:40 am
Not Partisanship?
Kiandee was reading from a prepared text!
He had more than 3 days to do research on precedence of amendment to motion of thanks.
And what he came up with was a prepared text to say it was not proper to do so. By saying he wasn’t aware was a blatant LIE!
He tried to stop LKS right from the onset. By saying tak payah baca!
From Hansard :
Timbalan Yang di-Pertua [Datuk Ronald Kiandee]: Yang Berhormat tidak perlu baca, Yang Berhormat.
Too bad the video quality is like that. If not you would have seen Kiandee reading from a piece of paper the prepared text.
#26 by Bigjoe on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 8:43 am
Ignorance is no excuse for ruling against the motion. Who in his god’s mind, much less politicians, don’t know how important the issue of illegal immigrant in Sabah is. It sits at the centre of most of Sabah’s political, economic, social problems.
To have acted against when there is a possibility of ignorance of such an important issue clearly evidence beyond a reasonable doubt of partisanship.
Clearly the speaker felt he had to show gratefulness to Badawi for putting him in the DS job and assist his fellow UMNO Sabah leaders.
#27 by Jeffrey on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 8:44 am
If a motion of no confidence were too drastic in light of these ‘mitigating’ factors, what about a motion of censure against the Deputy Speaker (fine him symbolic RM10) if he refuses to apologise ?
Wouldn’t such a motion of censure supported by 82 opposition members even if defeated on party lines place the speaker in an
untenable position??? Wouldn’t it reflect that he has lost the confidence of nearly ½ the House making it uncomfortable for him to sit on the Speaker chair?
If one aspires to make Parliament first world then we should depart from the convention of giving the post of speaker – the referee of parliament – to whoever the incumbent government favours confirmed by its majority vote.
The post should be occupied by someone proposed by the Prime Minister and other Members from the governing party after consultation with the Opposition – and also approved by the Opposition – regarding the candidate’s knowledge of parliamentary practices and, most important, his political neutrality and freedom from bias.
How do you, for example, have a meaningful football match if one has a referee who is bias in favour of one side and whistling foul all the time against the other side?
What does parliamentary convention and standing orders provide to remedy a situation of a bias speaker? What can the Opposition do?
#28 by Jeffrey on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 8:48 am
Actually I agree I have been too generous in giving Kiandee the benefit of doubt on the point of political neutrality, as some of you said that he had 3 days to prior prepare for Kit’s motion. Even if he were unfamiliar with parliamentary tradition or precedent (which is now doubted), why did he not give the benefit of doubt to the Opposition’s attempt to introduce amendment to the Royal Address and decide the other way instead?? That is why what to do to counteract a bias referee in parliament needs address.
#29 by Jeffrey on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 9:05 am
As much as impartiality or perceived impartiality of judges is important for the dignity of the institution of Judiciary so the impartiality or perceived impartiality of the post of Speaker/Deputy Speaker is important for the dignity of the institution of Parliament.
If the Federal Constitution makes token provisions for impartial judges by guaranteeing them tenure & immunity from arbitrary removal, what doesn’t the Constitution equally provide for the position of Speaker/Deputy Speaker?
There is a strong case to make constitutional amendments to enshrine safeguards promotive of neutrality regarding the post of Speaker/Deputy Speaker.
Some suggestions:
(a) The appointment of speaker should be by secret ballot;
(b) He can be appointed if his position were endorsed by not less than 2/3 votes of Parliament, and therefore he cannot continue in office if a motion of no confidence against him is not defeated by 2/3 votes of Parliament. Neither can government remove him unless it is supported by 2/3 votes of Parliament.
These safedguards are necessary if the office of speaker/deputy speaker be accorded the respect and confidence befitting its crucial importance to the parliamentary system based on democracy.
#30 by pohsoon on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 9:18 am
The Star reported the following statement by Kiandee:
———————————————————
[kiandee]
“I know that YB Ipoh Timur is concerned about the issue but Sabah MPs, including me, are even more concerned about this issue.
…
“We want to give it some time since the new Government is only a few months’ old.
“We’ll have to be patient. We’ve been waiting for so long, we might as well wait a little longer and see what happens,” he said.
———————————————————-
It didn’t justify to say that since the issue had lasted for so long, thus it won’t need to be resolved ASAP. Furthermore, if BN had been given more than 10 yrs to resolve the issue by failed, on what ground does giving another 1 year will allowed the issue to be resolved? PM Abdullah had been on helm since 2004 yet the issue not solved. The current government is the same as the previous government. Is the so called giving more time will make it a different, when a solution was being tabled by MR Lim Kit Siang, which is to set up a royal commision to probe into it?
—————————————
[kiandee]
“There are proper avenues for us to discuss the motion and now this is a motion of thanks on the Royal Address. “Therefore, we do not have to set any condition in our motion of thanks,” he said.
—————————–
Mind you, if the only thing the MP can to do is to say “Thank You, your highness”, then please don’t waste tax payer’s money by having 222 MP having the parliment session there for so many days. Just publish the speech and having everybody say “Thank You. Your Highness” or just having the speech broadcasted via radio or publish in newspaper.
#31 by taiking on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 9:23 am
Kiandee?
Who?
Who the heck is he?
#32 by ckchung on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 9:44 am
Kiandee from Beluran, Sandakan , Sabah the worst place of illegal imigrants.
#33 by Samuel Goh Kim Eng on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 10:18 am
The best advice is “When in doubt, shut up!”
Sometimes we still live in the wrong tea cup
There are even times when like little dear pup
We will need to feed on big chunk as small sup
(C) Samuel Goh Kim Eng – 260508
http://MotivationInMotion.blogspot.com
Mon. 26t May 2008.
#34 by oknyua on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 10:21 am
Ronald Kiandee decided based on political expediency. He might be the speaker, but he still has to answer to the BN hierarchy. I have been critical of his decision, but looking back would he jeopardise his political career by acceding to the motion? That is the hard fact of politics, selling oneself for the (brief) moments of glory. What would happen to Kiandee had he acceded to YB Lim KS’s motion? He could be the shortest term Deputy Speaker in Malaysian history.
Today’s paper reports Anifah wanted to ascertain the correct number of foreigners, claiming it ranged from just 300,000 to 1.5 million. We thought some MPs are stupid, but this is the first proof we need. Would an illegal says, “Here I am, count me as an illegal”? Why do we call them “illegal” if a census on them can be done?
In light of this series of stupidity, I am inclined to call YB Lim to ignore Sabahans’ plight. But there are the ordinary people inside Sabah. Children committed suicide because of not enough food. Children not in school because inability of buying uniforms. Of course these are hardly the concern of Sabah MPs, like Kiandee or Anifah Aman.
Visit Runggus and Orang Sungai and you would see some of the poorest people in this planet. I have been moving throughout the length and breadth of W Malaysia and Sarawak and yet to see similar level of poverty. Though I don’t travel nowadays, I still have reports from SIB Pastors reporting from rural Sabah. The Sabah government only moved in once they knew that a SIB church had been established in a locality. Of course we can’t compete with them; we only by our prayers, the government with money and promises.
YB Lim, thank you for highlighting this. There are many poor and forgotten that raise their hands to heaven and thank God for a man like Lim Kit Siang. I am one among them.
#35 by limkamput on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 10:32 am
What impartiality, perceived impartiality and neutrality are we talking about here?
It is not for the speaker or his deputy to decide what the Parliament ought to speak or ought not to speak on substantive issues. I just know it is for the Parliament to debate and decide on all matters concerning Malaysia, including even constitutional provisions.
I am talking politics here, not legal, technical, procedural and rules which can all be made to subvert the true intent of the Parliament or to suit the power that be. I say forget it. I have no time to debate over the power of the speaker (or his deputy) to reject substantive motions. The speaker or the deputy are mere house keepers to ensure orderly conduct of the house, not on substantive matters that the members can or can not speak on. That to me was engineered over the years through abuse of power of the majority over the minority, period.
#36 by limkamput on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 10:38 am
Malaysians of different racial groups and regions have been talking about their respective rights in increasing vigour recently. I believe if there is any group of people who deserve more right than many of us, it is the Orang Asli here in Peninsula Malaysia. Right now, they have got very little rights that we enjoy. More than that, many rights traditionally enjoyed and due to them are now gradually taken away from them. If you want to read more go here:
limkamput-nincompoop.blogspot.com/
#37 by Swordsman on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 4:13 pm
In terms of IQ and administrative capability, Pak Lah is probably on par with Bush Jr. In the USA, they have a self-functioning Govt which operates efficiently without any directive or intervention by the President, who is more focussed on where and how to start the next war.
Pak Lah’s “lack of leadership and administrative skills” is very glaring because we do not have a really self-functioning Govt. Oftentime, the Govt is on auto-pilot without any computer navigation or guidance which puts the whole country in danger. In a system wherein directives and intervention from the top leadership are regular features to “show” that the Govt is functioning, Pak Lah’s hands-off management style allows his Govt to go to sleep.
In the USA, the electorate do not vote for “smart or intelligent” candidates as their President. Usually they vote for “dumbos” who are not “smart” enough to circumvent the Govt system set up by their Founding Fathers. Al Gore lost to Bush because the electorate saw Gore as being too smart to the electorates’ liking. May be Pak Lah would have made a good President in the USA since they have strong affinity for “intellectually wanting” candidates, the Govt is self functioning with minimal input from the President, and he does’nt know how to start wars thus making the world much safer than it is now.
There is a time, a place and particular circumstance for each type or classification of leadership. Mahathir’s leadership, despite the misgivings of many, is more effective to pull our country out of its rut and face the complex challenges of globalisation. Pak Lah’s report card is all blank, not even red ink (when you sit for exam and failed) because he did not even sit for the exam, he was absent all this while.
#38 by Swordsman on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 4:19 pm
Oops, the above comment should have been posted under
UMNO Tuah-Jebat Dilemma.
#39 by robert wong on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 7:06 pm
Kiandee is also orang sungai, from Beluran, Sandakan. Because of self interest , Kiandee had foresaken all orang sungai plight. So sad , where is your conscience , kiandee ?
#40 by pky103 on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 3:37 pm
– How disappointing this Kiandee fella is! I feel so sorry for the Sabahans for having these BN MPs and speakers :(