Can there be a discussion of Islam thats not STUPID???

By Farish A Noor

It is interesting to reflect on the asinine times we live in, particularly if like me, you are involved in that nebulous thing called ‘Inter-cultural dialogue’. Over the past four weeks I have been engaged in numerous rounds of dialogues between Western Europeans and Muslim migrant communities in Amsterdam, Paris and Berlin, and in every single one of these encounters I came across stereotypes of Muslims and Islam that were so shallow and puerile that I am almost embarrassed to recount them here. Worst still these pedestrian musings on Islam and Muslims were not the offerings of everyday punters, but those who claimed to be well-known and admired scholars and historians.

In one of these exchanges I was told the following: that ‘Islam is a fascist, woman-hating, Christian-killing, gay-bashing macho male ideology of hatred that was built on fourteen centuries of conquest and bloodshed, murder and rape. That is why there cannot be integration of Muslims into Europe, because the Muslims that we have here are the savages of the Arab world who are barbaric, violent and brutal. They do not believe in reason and the Enlightenment and Islamic civilisation has not produced anything scientific, rational or humane.’ Try substituting the word ‘Muslim’ for ‘blacks’ and one would see how far-fetched and racist such claims really are.

Now why is it that whenever we speak of Islam and Muslims today some of us think they have the licence to drop their IQ level by a hundred points or so? Is talk on Islam a licence to say anything dumb, offensive, provocative, just for the sake of riling up the masses and grabbing a few headlines? A politician in Holland has even stated that there should be a ban on any reading of the Qur’an, on the grounds that it can be compared to Hitler’s Mein Kampf. Others claim that all Muslims are determined primarily by their religion which happens to be irrational, unscientific and anti-Enlightenment.

I was struck by the wilful blindness of these so-called ‘liberal’ and ‘rational’ Europeans themselves, and their inability to put things in relative perspective and to interrogate their own presuppositions about themselves. In my own work as an academic-activist I have tried to deconstruct the grand narratives of official history, be it on the level of the state or religion. I am also aware of the fact that the writing of history is a contested process and that more often than not the writing of history is done by the victors and not the defeated marginalised voices of any community. Is it a surprise then that the history of the West has been only a history of white, male, middle-classed voices? Where is the history of women and women’s participation in politics, economics and nation-building? Only recently with the advances made by Feminist historiography and deconstructive history by the likes of Simon Schama have we seen the writing of history that is inclusive, plural and popular.

Now the conscious historian will inform you that there were (and remain) counter-currents to such dominant grand narratives all along, both in the West and in the Muslim world. (As there are liberal progressive counter-currents against orthodox conservative Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity and Judaism.) Furthermore, all civilisations and cultures exist in relational terms and develop in relation with and to others: It would be farcical to claim that the European Enlightenment was merely an auto-generated case of isolated genius, for we all know that European civilisation developed by interaction with Muslim civilisation; as did Muslim civilisation develop in relation with and to Chinese, Indian and Persian civilisation.

Of course today Muslims the world over are hostage to a history that is determined either by ruling elites or their conservative lackeys such as the Wahabbis of Saudi Arabia. From the pens of these conservative sectarians, we get only a static account of Muslim history that is told from the point of view of Kings, Sultans and dictators- such as the history of Iraq that was written during the time of Saddam Hussein, or the skewered history of Arabia written by the pro-establishment Wahabbis. But here again the question needs to be raised: How was this historical erasure made possible, and who were the agents behind such erasure? Well, unfortunately the finger of blame also points to the ‘enlightened’ West, who regarded dictators like Saddam Hussein and the Saudi royal family as their strategic allies.

The rise of conservative, fundamentalist, sectarian and violent Islam was aided and abetted by Western states during the Cold War, leading to the rise of men like Saddam Hussein, the anti-Soviet Mujahideen and later the Taliban who have done so much to destroy the plural legacy of the Muslim world. Yet today Western liberals accuse Muslims of having no history and that their own history is one of violence. Where is the enlightened spirit of auto-critique and self-awareness here? Surely liberals in the West should not be surprised to see the rise of fundamentalist Muslim regimes the world over when it has been their own Western governments that have supported those very same anti-Christian, anti-women, anti-gay regimes in the first
place, ostensibly for the sake of strategic alliances but fundamentally to safeguard the West’s much-needed supply of oil?

I am by no means excusing fundamentalist conservative Muslims here, for there are indeed right-wing Muslims who can only be described as fascist in the real sense of the word. But in the same way that Muslims today need to get out of their shell and stare reality in the face, so do Europeans who claim to be ever-so enlightened and liberal. Europe’s Enlightenment project
created not only its own discontents but also anomalies.

To suggest that every single European today is the product of this historical process would be so simplistic as to beggar belief, and borders on the ridiculous. For should that be the case, then perhaps we can ask how enlightened the Europeans were when they colonised Asia and Africa. Look at the world map and see how so many patches of the earth today — ranging from North America to Australia — are reminders of a colonial expansion that was motivated by irrational greed, irrational racism, irrational hatred for the Other, and not the values of reason or universal humanism. Tell me, was it Kant or Descartes who told the colonisers to invade and occupy Australia, and exterminate the aborigines of Tasmania and then hang their heads as trophies? Or skin the bodies of North American Indians to make boots and tobacco pouches? Where was the European Enlightenment then? Asleep?

  1. #1 by k1980 on Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - 8:36 am

    Muslims are too “perfect” to be evolved whereas non-Muslims are descended from apes?

  2. #2 by cklife on Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - 9:06 am

    It’s a sad thing the European took such a narrow perspective to judge Muslims. As a non-Muslim which has interacted with with Majority Muslims in this country, we had learned many things that allow us to see through Islam in a good form- despite still having the notion to go against radicalism. Islam in true form is pure and humane. Not like what these debater said.

  3. #3 by Jamesy on Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - 9:31 am

    There’s ALWAYS hypocrites and fanatics on both side of the coins, muslims and non-muslims alike, Europeans and Malaysians.

    The TRUE believer of whatever religion, Islam, Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh and Christian will practice their own religions in good faith, respect for others, humility, compassionate, charity, patience, understanding and love.

    No religion teaches its followers to kill others, hatred towards enemy, rebellious, blackmailing, deceit, harm and disobedience. This is the works of hypocrites and fanatics.

    No need to look at the hypocrite and fanatic Europeans, look at our own backyard first, the Malaysians. Do we already get rid of our hypocrite and fanatics Malaysians who profess and proclaim to be the true believer of a particular religion out of political and judicial system, governmental department and authorities(religious police) and social organisation?

    Don’t be a hypocrites!

  4. #4 by FuturePolitician on Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - 9:34 am

    The progress of religion has to adhere to current needs of mankind. Any religion must progress through the demand of changes made by men(man and woman).

    Examples – changes to be more humane

    The equality of both sexes is one of the issues.

    The burdensome burden of proof of a muslim raped women.

    The acceptance of role change of women that women now could contribute to the economic of a country.

    Make learning of a religion much easier and the path to enlightenment clearer.

    Buddhism has evolved tremendously with many version of which some has evolved to be much simpler to understand and much more direct – Nichiren Dishonin’s Buddhism , the lotus Sutra.

    Christianity studies has been evolved to include more activities instead of learning from the bible, they have changed to add in visual and sound to make it more interesting for the children(especially them!)

    Islamic teaching has tremendous good value in them, but in a rigid form of which said conditions cannot be change or tolerated.

    As human progress in their technological advancement, the soul needs some sort of peace and explaination if they encountered occurance which cannot be explain by science., this is where religion plays a major role to cope with the sanity of mankind.

    Religion is just a teaching a guide for humanity.. the destruction and devastation is man himself.

    All in all, we as human must survive till we are able to travel out to space, like “StarTrek” where monetary pursuit has no longer the drive for mankind but to explore the vast universe in search of new civilization. I dont want to go to Heaven yet..nor Hell in matter of speaking.

  5. #5 by Jimm on Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - 10:37 am

    Respect and be responsible to your own faith and beliefs …
    Don’t go and compare what your stands are with people on the other side …
    All these action of yours are been judge by The Almighty and no by fellow mankind.

  6. #6 by greatstuff on Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - 10:40 am

    I think the nation of Malaysia needs you to return to the country and expouse your manner of thinking, so that you can save your Bretheren from sinking further into the abyss of intolerant mental retardation from the misleading, divisive, and backward religious teachings they have been brainwashed with for the past 3 dacades. Malaysia needs Secular Islam to propel it further into the modern era, to unify it’s multi-cultural dynamics, and you could therefore do a lot more benefit here if you were back on shore. Thank you .

  7. #7 by sheriff singh on Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - 10:48 am

    Not everyone has an IQ of 130. The average man in the street probably has an IQ of about 90 or so and you have to accept this and deal with this reality.

    There are also those who have higher IQs but who do not live up to it. They can’t be experts or knowledgeable in everything. It then boils down to lack of knowledge, prejudices and other agendas. It can happen everywhere.

    Try substituting “Islam” with Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism etc and “Malaysia” instead of western countries and you will have the same result. That’s why I suppose you just cannot have any intelligent dialogue even in Malaysia.

  8. #8 by AntiRacialDiscrimination on Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - 11:38 am

    A lot of Muslims who are holding high ranking position in public institutions in Malaysia also never respect other people’s basic rights.

    If Muslims want other people to respect them, they should respect others as well.

  9. #9 by badak on Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - 12:23 pm

    First it was what humans eat must be halal,Then all imported cat food must be halal,Now all this big noise on chiken feed must be halal,Wil it come to a stage where by only muslim ,s blood must be use for muslim.

  10. #10 by Cinnamon on Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - 1:37 pm


    Yes, you might say true and pure Islam advocates peace and tolerance. Is that really true? There are many religions in Europe; Hinduism, Sikh, Buddhists, etc, etc. But why is it Islam is the only target? The answer is quite simple, it is how majority of Muslims behave, what is the value majority of Muslims hold. People don’t give a shit what 1 or 2 scholars say about Islam.

    To be frank, the Western world is looking at Islam as a plague. Have u read today what the Iranian president said, he is questioning the happening holocoust!!! He is the president of Islamic country, so doesn’t he represent the general view of Muslims? Do you blame the westerners for perceiving Muslims as cancer in the society. Pakistanis migrated to UK in droves, they wanted a better life, but now some the Pakistanis in UK wants the white society in UK to adapt to Muslims. Come on, who need to adapt to you. If you go to people’s house, we don’t tell the host how to behave.

    The fanatism in Muslims is irreverseable. It will only get worse, that’s the hard reality, you can see that in Malaysia already.

  11. #11 by waterman on Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - 2:30 pm

    “Jamesy Says:

    September 25th, 2007 at 09: 31.30
    There’s ALWAYS hypocrites and fanatics on both side of the coins, muslims and non-muslims alike, Europeans and Malaysians.”
    Well said.
    In 1989 I wanted to end my life by jumping off a tall building. I asked a question if there is God & shockingly someone wrote something in my mind – L A.

    I thought it was Los Angeles but 2 words followed – LOVE & AFFECTION. I thought the goddess of mercy that my mom had worshipped all but the final year of her life has saved me from suicide.

    3 weeks later, I went with a colleague to his church. At the end of the service, the pastor said God has impressed upon his heart to share a word with someone that “you need to remove your masks and you need to build a good vertical relationship with God & a good horizontal relationship with man with LOVE & AFFECTION.”

    It was then I knew there is God. He loves everone of us. He wants us to love Him & He wants us to love one another.
    Later, when I read the Bible, I found that this is clearly taught by Jesus on the 2 greatest commandments. ( Mark 12:29-31)
    Jesus has come and given me a new life & a living hope!

    Sadly today, so many of us are abusing religion for personal gains!

  12. #12 by waterman on Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - 3:35 pm


    A slightest negative comment or silly joke on Islam will instantly send millions of Muslims storming out with outrageous show of violent is enough to put any peace loving human being on absolute guard.

    If God is God & all powerful & mighthy,please let God be God He is fully capable of taking care of “comments” & “jokes”

    As far as I can see TODAY, a lot of harm has been done to the world’s image on Islam by Muslims themselves and you can’t blame the current European’s mindset – They don’t know which one of you is the “bomb” carrying type!

  13. #13 by dawsheng on Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - 6:00 pm

    If there were ever any ongoing religious war that’s has been for thousand of years, it appears that the Christians has won the crusade, this is because beside believing in the exisitense of God, Christians also realized what men are capable of as human being, for example, invention of technologies by using our brain. A general comparison within the largest religious denominations will tell you Islam is indeed a rare breed, and if you agree, stupid to certain extend, all because Allah’s believers now think they are Allah themselves.

  14. #14 by Just Do It on Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - 6:17 pm

    What if there is no god? Imagine the blood shed and resources wasted over something that is not existence! We live in a planet that is part of a solar system, and in the universe, there are billions of solar systems. So, if there is really a god who can create this universe (not sure out of what resources he had), I really find it hard to fathom that he will be interested in tuning in to the millions of prayers each day from mankind on earth and thinking how to respond to them. Not to mention that he has to record what each person (from the first person created, mind you which means how many billions live and died I am not sure) does and even think every moment of his life so that judgement can be made on them come judgement day. And I suppose he also need to keep track of the countless numbers of animals, insects, plants, trees, germs that he also created? And since the universe is created so large, I don’t think there is man only on earth…. so he really really can keep himself very busy.

  15. #15 by DAPSupporter on Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - 7:50 pm

    Well, I did hear before regarding Malaysia’s Muslims request for ‘halal’ blood when they were in hospital needed blood transfusion. HAHAH, ridiculous! If you think you need a halal blood, then please go and find yourself.

    To Farish, your theory is theoritically correct, but in reality, I think is a bit different. For example, in London and New York. If you stay in a peaceful and lovely country, suddenly one day you country be boomed by Muslims, are you going to say ‘oh, they boomed our country, our people, therefore I should love them.’ ??? I don’t think so.

    Further, currently we can see that the southern part of Thais, American, Jewish and others are suffering the attack and hatred from those who believe in Allah. Apperantly, they are picking on the Skin colour and other religious. So, ask you a question, based on those I stated, how should non-Muslims think of those Muslims? I think everyone still can remember how were the incident happened in Indonesia? Bali Booming, Mass-kill to chinese and other. How you think?

    This is based on my own opinion, for buddism, I heard of those ‘fortune teller’ molest girls and fake monks asked money for people. For Christian, the Priest cheat money. For Islam….BOOM! HOLYWAR!! HALAL!!! ALLAH!!!!
    I never see before(my own opinion) Islamic country help other country, especially non-islamic country when they need. for example, when Indonesia tsunami, we can see a lot of western country, for example, Australia give them a hand although majority there is Muslims.

    What you think about Muslims and Islam when you consider those issues and not consider the issue from book?

  16. #16 by greatstuff on Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - 9:41 pm

    Basically speaking therefore, the problem is something like this:

    ” Ladies and Gentlemen! Welcome to tonight’s show! In the one corner you have a HALAL, and in the other corner you have a non-HALAL “.
    And then, we begin to see (over the decades) since what was once the wonderfully easy going era of P.J.Ramlee’s Malaysia, that non-Halal becomes not quite good enough, possibly even HARAM, and thus the great divide begins to show, with a little help from the meddling of the Great Puppeteers, who end up doing the nation a great disservice at the end of the day? Alas, what a sad reflection on what could have become!

  17. #17 by digard on Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - 11:39 pm

    Farish A Noor,

    You’d have so much to contribute in Malaysia, I agree with greatstuff. We need you here; not over there. It is so low level to bring out the colonial arguments, here you are not a sen better than those who still identify Italy with Mussolini. Or Russia with the former USSR and Stalin; or Germany with Hitler. Or perceive Blair/Brown as successors of Churchill.
    Simply get over it!

    It is a factual error to relate the undeniable exploitation of under-developed countries by the European powers with anti-Islamic feelings. On the contrary, the efficiency of the Europeans was achieved by disregarding native sentiments and rather pursuing the Jesuit paradigm of ‘as long as it serves the cause’.

    The intolerance that you encounter in Europe versus Muslims is a fact, but not – as portrayed by you – as any kind of anti-Islamic feeling per se. It is mostly a result of intolerance practised by a minority of the Muslim population.
    Enlightenment (a pale translation of Kant’s “Aufklaerung”) has nothing whatsoever to do with this. One would rather question this concept by looking at 2 world wars, the second alone leading to the dead of 50 million. The concept of exterminating the Jews from this planet.
    Should I add that most Arabs I have met during my lifetime have actually deplored that the latter didn’t work out? Do I ever mention it, aside of in here? No. Because it does not contribute to the discussion to cite an ignorant here or there. What is the point of your mention of statements made by some fascism-inclined dim-wits in Europe? I don’t see any relevance, except to prove that they exist. Which nobody ever denied.
    Again, I wished you could get over it and get a life! What is needed instead, is a dialogue. One without prejudice, without looking at idiots on either side and play them up. Enlightenment encompasses a useful and uninhibited dialogue to approach (a) truth, a truth not instructed by church or king, so-called ‘sapere aude’ or ‘dare to know’.
    I dare to ask you, if you really dare.

    “Yet today Western liberals accuse Muslims of having no history”. I have come across a lot of question, this one never until in here. Actually, you kind of insult Western liberals here. You will find very few who would not point to the Caliphate as a great historical epoch in human civilisation, and for those in Malaysia with less oversea travels, one that is at many points visible in Europe still today, and cherished as splendid, adorable locations (e.g. Granada, Seville).
    Would it not be more productive to elaborate on the decline of the Caliphate, until Kemal Atatuerk dissolved it, and mainly the reasons for that decline? And ever more about the dire state of the Islamic countries during the last centuries? Or, in continuation of your writings, what the other reasons could have been, aside from “also points to the ‘enlightened’ West”. How gullible have those around 50 countries become, and why did they become so weak, despite of natural resources, that they fell into the lap of the West like ripe fruit? If we accept this as fact, do we not at the same time implicitly accept the weakness to withstand temptations of worldly kind? Is the consequence of all this – at least as painted by you yourself – not, that a NDP was needed, a shelter for the Islamic world, handouts for development?

    And, please, we are awash with blokes who can YELL ‘BODOH’. I hope you’re not trying to compete!

  18. #18 by ablastine on Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - 11:55 pm

    ALL religions are nonsensical and the so call holy scriptures are just buffoonery utterly created by man to manipulate other man. Jesus or Mohammad may have lived once upon a time but I wouldn’t bet a dime that they actually did and said what is written. The world will be less of a hellish place had there been no religion to misled it. So what is true and pure Islam? To Osama it is to kill Bush the devil and destroy America. To some writers here it is the the ultimate in goodness – compassion, patience, understanding, charity, humility, etc. The earlier the world kick this terrible addiction the better it will be for human kind. We should really be paying more attention to our time of earth rather than wasting our time praying for afterlife and spending billions building useless structures like churches and mosques and temples. I think the money will be better use if spent on space research and outer space colonisation. I am sorry to disappoint many people but GOD is really the name given to anything human does not know or understand. To Mr Farish, I strongly urge you to use your fine mind to help get Malaysia back to its feet and stop wasting time and effort on this nebulous thing call religion. The outcome and opinions on the merits and demerits of religion is just simply immaterial because the origin of religion is more than suspect. It is only possible to reverse the downward slide of Malaysia if thinking Malay men like yourself come forward to serve and take up position of influence. For us who belong to the minority races in the country, although we know exactly what is wrong and how to fix it, nothing will come out of it because we are as they suggest just Bangsa Asing. Nobody will listen to us. The simple kampong folks will never vote for Bangsa Asing even if these Bangsa Asing may be their GOD most precious gift to them.

  19. #19 by k1980 on Wednesday, 26 September 2007 - 1:30 am

    Can someone clarify whether the sketch of a stick-figure labelled “Muhammad” by a 3 year old kid will instantly send millions of outraged Muslims storming out into the streets baying for that child’s blood?

  20. #20 by ktteokt on Wednesday, 26 September 2007 - 9:28 am

    To be exact, the air we breathe is also not “halal”. It is full of micro-organisms which spreads all sorts of diseases. So why are Muslims breathing the same air as non-Muslims?

  21. #21 by awesome on Wednesday, 26 September 2007 - 10:25 am

    Reading your aricle Farish Noor and the comments, it is so obvious that people have no regard for Islam or Muslims. Really you can’t help it because Muslims around the globe have failed miserably even in Malaysia. How have they failed? By being so petty and narrow minded.

    It also appears that consciously or unconsiously Christianily or the West are like ‘enemies’. I noticed that quite frequently many quote the West and are offended by their opinions.

    Come on does it really matter? It is pointless pointing a finger at the mind set or the way the West and other religions or non muslims think about Muslims. Don’t they have the right? What is the point of justifying yourself ? Is it going to change somebody’s opinion? What we need to do is take a good look right into our heart and ask ourself whether we are a God and whether we have the right to judge our fellow homosapiens.

    We are full of wrong doing. We hurt by our words and are easily offended. We take to the streets over small sketches and drawings. We assume we are God and act wierd. Can you blame others for laughing at us behind our back? We try to jusify ourselves by our religiousity and piousness. But inside our heart it is stinks. We have a form of godliness or religion but all in vain.

    Perhaps instead of finding answers by condemning others and justifying ourselves, we should really call out to the One we claim to believe and ask Our Creator to transform our lives.

    Ask Him to reveal Himself to us if He is really God. Perhaps like some one says, He must be very busy? Or is He? What is the truth? Are we just believing falsehood or deception and beating the wind and acting stupid?

    Surely if He is God, He will listen and He is Almighty so our puny little minds cannot understand His magnificence and His majesty.

    So Farish, my conclusion is this, stop debating who is better. Stop acting God and taking actions on those who misunderstand us. All our words and actions trying to change the world is fruitless if we are great hypocrites.

    Muslims think Islam is the way. Christians think Jesus is the way. Other religions think their good deeds and religion will safe them. Some think there is no God but money and a ‘good’ life. I think many of us are confused and we are like blind leading the blind.

    The best thing is to take a break from what people think about our belief system and ask ourselves whether what we believe in is reality. If it is why are we filled with so much of hatred? Something is wrong?

    So maybe we need to take a good look inside our heart and call out to God whom we believe and ask Him to change our evil hearts and reveal Himself to us.

  22. #22 by waterman on Wednesday, 26 September 2007 - 7:23 pm

    “So may be we need to take a good look inside our heart and call out to God whom we believe and ask Him to change our evil hearts and reveal Himself to us.” -awesome

    Yes, when we really open our heart and seek God, HE will meet us in the deepest recess of our heart.

    Sadly very few people want to tune in to God. All have gone their own separate way. God is waiting right at the door step of our heart!!!!

  23. #23 by borrring on Wednesday, 26 September 2007 - 9:20 pm

    We must not focus on the actions of those who call themselves muslims or christians. Instead we must look directly at the teachings & actions of the founders. There is a big difference between looking at the sources yourself & relying on other people to tell you what those sources say. Look for the truth yourselves & may the truth will set you free….

  24. #24 by ablastine on Wednesday, 26 September 2007 - 9:57 pm

    But where is the source and what is the truth. Are we sure that what we are reading in the Bible or Quran came directly from the religion’s founder or even GOD himself. Actually if you really study the character of GOD as is depicted in the two main holy scripture, you will come to the conclusion he is actually not all compassion, love, charitable and even kind as many make him out to be. Beyond that everything else is ambigous requiring ever more human interpretation which of course is fraughted with weaknesses. Religion may inspire hope in many because human needs something less mundane and more arcane to sprite up their drudgery in life, but religion is really a dead end. Its popularity will surely diminish with time as human mind awakens.

  25. #25 by hafizMZ on Wednesday, 26 September 2007 - 11:59 pm

    He is God, the Creator of all.
    I am not a monkey descendant, we are all Adam’s.

  26. #26 by rajanjohn on Thursday, 27 September 2007 - 2:02 am

    Muslims/Islam is a good religion if the followers follow the rite way and not being Hippocrates’s! Don’t say halal or haram la you (umat2) should know what’s halal n HARAM! What goes IN is not the matter but what comes OUT.

  27. #27 by borrring on Thursday, 27 September 2007 - 9:15 pm

    “Are we sure that what we are reading in the Bible or Quran came directly from the religion’s founder or even GOD himself”….don’t listen to what people say or even look to the followers of any religion….if you really want to know who He is and you’re very sincere in your search, you must go to the source….may it be the Bible, Al Quran or whatever it is….ask Him to reveal Himself to you….by communicating to Him….and the Words will speak to you

  28. #28 by RGRaj on Friday, 28 September 2007 - 6:48 am

    The backlash against Islamization is already underway in Europe. Well, can’t really blame them now, can we?

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