Public Forum: “Assassinating a YB” vs Press Freedom
Date: 23.10.08 (Thursday)
Time: 8.00pm
Venue: KL & Selangor Chinese Assembly Hall, Jalan Maharajalela, KL
Speakers:
1. Lim Kit Siang, DAP Parliamentary Leader
2. Khalid Samad, Member of Parliament
3. Harris Ibrahim, Lawyer
4. Azmi Sharom, Academician
5. Wan Hamidi Hamid, Senior Journalist
6. Teresa Kok, Selangor Senior Exco
All Are Welcome!
Live Broadcast :
Watch live video from DAP Malaysia on tv.dapmalaysia.org
#1 by One4All4One on Wednesday, 22 October 2008 - 7:07 pm
It is all about accountability my dear friends, accountability.
If someone is truly honest to oneself, and to God if he is true to his religion, then he should by all counts live up to whatever he professes and believes to be right conscientiously, come face to face with true people and not hide behind fictitiously created pieces of writing and claim that it has morals and messages for his readers.
Else it would be clear hypocrisy for all we know.
A writer of Mr Chamil Wariya’s standing, at least in the local scene, behooves him to behave in a manner befitting that standing. I remember him as a host of TV programs which captured many people’s imagination and which could have impacted on developments in the country. This is no small thing.
A person who writes to live, and lives to write, has to come out to explain himself whenever any disputes or issues arise from his writing, especially if they have an impact on society. If he is worth his salt, he should make it a point to come forward to explain to all what his intentions were in that explosive and controversial piece of writing.
Now that a forum is created specifically to debate and discuss matters that arose and about the role and position of the press, Mr Chamil should take up the responsibility to attend. Nothing is better than to hear straight from the horse’s mouth. Live up to that expectation, Mr Chamil Wariya.
A seat has been reserved for you.
#2 by yhsiew on Wednesday, 22 October 2008 - 9:21 pm
Kit,
It is time to have a thread on press freedom as Malaysia’s 2008 ranking in press freedom has dropped 8 places from 124th to 132th (out of 173 countries). The 132th score is the poorest the country has ever achieved. No thanks to government crackdowns on bloggers! Hamid Albar should resign for such poor showing of press freedom ranking.
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=25659
#3 by lbl on Wednesday, 22 October 2008 - 10:24 pm
Hi shamshul anuar,
It is my pleasure.
Although we claim to be multi – racial in Malaysia, I doubt we all can claim that we understand each others culture. Once we understand each others culture we will not misinterpret each others actions as offensive.
I always advocate that only inter-marriage will solve all our misunderstandings . Unfortunately this will be a very slow process. I am afraid there will always be oppositions to this idea from some parents etc. Race has always been an issue in any country. In the present US election, the race issue is bound to play a part. In Africa you have the tribal problems.
Attending open house is a start but we must go further than that. Let us hope we as parents will do our part in educating our children.
Let us hope our politicans will look into the root of our problem.
Anyway it is nice to be able to discuss the matter with you.
#4 by OrangRojak on Wednesday, 22 October 2008 - 11:19 pm
“But it never denies other races the right to pursue … religious freedom”.
This is not true.
Article 11.4 explicitly forbids “propagating … belief among persons professing the religion of Islam.”
Spreading your religion is a fairly integral part of most of the Abrahamic faiths, I don’t know about any of the Far Eastern religions. Article 11.4 denies the right to proselytise to Muslims. Since all Malays are Muslim by law, the freedom to proselytise is only denied to non-Malays, what I imagine was intended by ‘other races’ in the statement.
I’m not at all interested in religion, just want to keep the facts straight.
#5 by OrangRojak on Wednesday, 22 October 2008 - 11:32 pm
I said “right” I meant “freedom”.
Just rereading this thread I see zak is on his soap box again:
“It is a childish and futile to believe there is no freedom of speech in Malaysia.”
Well, futile perhaps. But the RSF place Malaysia way down their 2008 Press Freedom list.
Are you playing word games zak? Speech is free, because it’s blown away on the wind. This thread, and RSF’s concerns, are about the press. It’s childish to believe we could be so easily misled.
#6 by just a moment on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 1:03 am
Just to clarify and set things straight from
shamshul anuar Says:
Today at 13: 09.00 (10 hours ago)
—————————————————
As a chinese myself and not being involved in politics, Im more qualify and appropriate to speak for myself and most chinese rather than Malays or from anti-DAP. The truth is that DAP did not and NEED NOT whip Chinese sentiments to incite hatred on UMNO.
In fact its Umno that whip Chinese. Unlike Umno or Malays,(any Chinese in Umno?) Chinese have always been more liberal in our thinking and more independent in our decision making process therefore, can make judgment for ourselves, need not be incited or brainwashed as easily as others.
If you want to use the word Hate, then one needs to understand its a word that is earned over a long and repeated duration, isn’t it? One don’t suddenly wake up one morning and starts to hate another person. You may get annoyed or angry, but to hate is something else.
Im not sure hate is the right word, However, if you think its the right word, then you and Umno have to ask yourself why? Another question is, How would Malay look at chinese in this country? Would they look at chinese as less important or equal as Malays?, less priviledge, less powerful, less human? less ‘true-bumi’s than bumis?, Do Malays pity chinese or they hate chinese, In a group of Malays, I also wonder what they they talk about chinese. Just wondering.
As for Hishamuddin waving kris, its shere intimitation because the poll results shows, even amongst Umno agreed what is all about. No need to explain coz 2 wrongs don’t make 1 right. By the way, in Chinese saying that Malay do not have is “When someone desperate wants to make a point, there’s no need for details”.
Thank you for acknowledging that through HARD work, we are able to reigns supreme? ( I find it hard to comprehend the use of such inappropriate word ) in economic sector.
It should be… Through hard work, chinese in economic sectors are more evident.. or proven. Its not about some power crazy related notion. What reign, what supreme are you refering? I wonder.
In fact, any human beings for that matter,who are hardworking are never deny of success in any business. Thats a Universal Law!
It doesn’t just apply to Chinese, Malay too can achieved that If they put in hard work as well.
“Malay community reigns supreme in politics due to being the largest racial group in Malaysia.”
Malay Reigns Supreme because of largest group. I cannot comment of this because Im not a Malay. Its a Malay belief unfortunately not all people neccessary share this defination of Reigns Supreme means. Theres no problem with me about who runs politic but I certainly do not agree it should benefit only one race more or at the expense of other races, more so without being Hard working, because its not against Chinese, its against Universal Law?
There is nothing to embarass about that? Theres a big difference between being embarass and shame. No one is embarass, we just feel shame.
“UMNO despite being the senior partner in BN and hence Federal Govt, never hides the fact that it is dominant.”
Somehow, despite is something you would exhibit differently to make a point but in your sentence its mind boggling to understand.
How different would this sound? Despite being Goliath and a Giant,never hides the fact that it is Ruthless?
“But it never denies other races the right to pursue economic activities or religious freedom.”
Thats why Malaysia as a whole including Malays are blessed.
It a long long road ahead, that much I know.
Only God can help.
Not only Malay God can help, right?
But it never denies other races the right to pursue economic activities or religious freedom.
Evident is a better word.
is not a word that suddenly drop out from the sky one morning
If you are a malay, have you ever look at any of your chinese friends as friends? or people with less
As for Hishamuddin waving kris, DID he say he wanted to kill non Malays. Keris is a symbol of bravery, courage, determination. At no times that he veiled a threat to non Malays .
The truth is that DAP played to the gallery on this incident. It continously whip Chinese sentiments to incite hatred on UMNO.
Just as Chinese reigns supreme in economic sector through sheer hard work and extensive clan network, Malay community reigns supreme in politics due to being the largest racial group in Malaysia.
There is nothing to embarass about that. UMNO despite being the senior partner in BN and hence Federal Govt, never hides the fact that it is dominant. But it never denies other races the right to pursue economic activities or religious freedom.
#7 by ruyom on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 4:40 am
The truth is that Umno has ruled supreme for the last 50 years. It always got its way because the dominant ethnic majority of the country always supported its policies.
The state of the nation is corrupt, racist, discriminatory, abusive, unjust, inefficient, and backwards. If Malaysia stinks then it is because Umno stinks.
If the “morals of the country” stinks, then it is because the morals of Umno politicians stinks.
I won’t even discuss the morality of explosives and murder of foreign nationals as most people seem to be able to tell the difference between right and wrong in this instance.
Instead, I shall talk about Umno corruption and Umno racism as the former will occasion the disastrous downfall of this nation, and the latter will be the downfall of the malays.
Umno teaches that it is just to discriminate against all non-malays and non-Muslims: jobs, education, schools, colleges, universities, business opportunities, government contracts, taxes, and even finding a cemetery to bury the dead.
Umno teaches that it is right to discriminate on the basis of a person race, culture, language or religious belief.
In front of non-malays, it speaks of tolerance and unity in diversity, and in front of malays it speaks of race, religious, cultural and language supremacy, and the glorification of power and ethnic subjugation.
Bung Mokhtar leadership role as characterised by a yobbish machismo, obscene gestures, medieval attitudes towards women and minorities, and strutting bigotry within Umno is not only not an accident of chance, but an exemplary example of Umno appeal to the baser instincts and darker fantasies of its ethnic constituency.
To the vernacular schools it gives a pittance for support, and to malay language schools, there is no need to be diplomatic and call them “national language” schools, it gives 100% support.
As for English-medium schools, the type that made Malaysia education the best in South East Asia, and our school leavers the most sought after anywhere in the civilised world, they were made extinct, courtesy of Umno language and cultural supremacist fantasies.
So we are left with unemployable graduates with deplorable job skills and prospects.
Umno policies caused a brain drain to Australia, New Zealand, UK, Canada, and the US.
Umno language supremacist policies caused the extinction of the best high quality education that Malaysia and the malays would ever know.
Umno perversion of the very idea of meritocracy in favour of racist discrimination has ensured the lack of meritocractic competition for all Malaysians.
Sooner or later, the malays will realise that denying meritocracy to non-malays guarantees that there can be no meritocracy for malays even within their own community.
The fact that there is no notable inferiority complex nor entitlement complex or NEP dependence amongst the non-malays is no accident.
If the non-malays were the dominant ethnic majority, and they had an Umno-like racist party to lead them with promises of ethnic supremacy, racial discrimination and ethnic privileges, then I believe they would have lost their self-confidence, self-respect and self-belief too.
Farish Noor once said “Umno ternak melayu untuk disembelih”.
I agree, and if the dominant ethnic majority fails to see past Umno seductive promises of ethnic supremacy and false gods of ethnic aggrandisement, then we are all finished.
#8 by bclee on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 6:37 am
the crude oil traded well below 67usd at today electronic trading just wondering when our petrol going to below rm1.92.
Supply and demand issues continue to be a problem for the energy industry as demand forecast decreased once again today. Not helping the cause, Saudi Arabia’s former oil minister says oil prices will keep falling if they don’t do anything about the over-production. OPEC also announced that next year we will experience a huge supply of oil if no action will be taken.
#9 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 7:47 am
The expression ‘Freedom of Religion’ would encompass (a) freedom to practise one’s faith without interference (b) the right to conscientious objection and to have no religion (c) the right to change one’s religion or belief and to leave the Religion (d) the right to teach and proselytise one’s religion to others of different or no faiths and (e) the right to acept or resist and reject (d) as well.
So yes Malaysia has freedom of religion in certain aspects and no freedom in other aspects; and yes again Malaysia also has freedom of speech in some respects and not in other respects…..
Now those who consistently defend in this blog the BN/government’s position on Freedom of Speech and Religion never fail to attract detractors.
Firstly this is due to the fact that they only selectively highlight the existence of certain aspects of these freedoms without taking into consideration other aspects without for balance of view.
Secondly – and this is more important – even if one were discussing certain aspects of freedoms presently existing, government apologists here do not factor in the “double standards” applied to different people in relation to these aspects.
For example some have the right to proselytise the religion to others and some have fredom to leave the religion but not the others; or some people have greater freedom of speech or less restraint than others and it boils down to who is doing the speaking that determines if there were dire consequences………
Now coming back to basics : what is the meaning of good governance?
An open ended expression – this word “good governance” – it will, to reasonable people, include (in the context of a plural society) a fair application of rewards and punishment, entitlement and obligations and if freedoms are accorded or restraints to freedoms are imposed [whether in full or limited measure], they should be accorded or imposed in manner perceived equitable and fair to all without “double standards”.
What cheezes people off more than just freedoms not being absolute but subject to restraints is the fact that double standards of government and application of laws are perceived to exist. So where is the good governance when double standards prevail?
How can one blame people here from attacking or contradicting the minority opinion who apologise selectively for the BN govt for doing either a great job or a sufficient job in governance without factoring in the obvious double standards?
#10 by just a moment on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 9:20 am
Jeffrey Says:
Today at 07: 47.00 (35 minutes ago)
————————————————-
Well said Jeffrey.
The source of the problem is in the heads and hearts of BN Goment. How do you live with people who already have opinion and belief that they are ‘reign supreme’ mentality over others?
Jeffrey, Occassionaly Im shock to learn about the way, how malays (not all, thank goodness) perceived and look at things in general.You won’t be surprised, some common sense may not be so common after all. It never fail to intrigues me, least if we understand how and where the source of their learning comes from, its never easy to value their total make-up. The definition of the word ‘Govern’ may even be different from them and us.
Most of time, the law being used have been extremely selective and the best part is the way they explained the whys and hows simply defies logics and common sense. They are good at Putting the cart before the horse or changing questions to fit answers is the best description I can think of.
Our nation’s ranking on Press freedom speaks volume and I bet you, BN and Goment will not agree. That’s why I says we probably are living in 2 different world. The values of human may not even be the same, it troubles me deeply.
I suspect the word ‘double standard’ to BN Goment is synonymous with the word to ‘govern’ and to them it’s their previliege, its their inherited right, its justified as far as they are concern.
#11 by OrangRojak on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 10:41 am
“In fact, any human beings for that matter,who are hardworking are never deny of success in any business. Thats a Universal Law!
It doesn’t just apply to Chinese, Malay too can achieved that If they put in hard work as well.”
This really doesn’t help. I see this rubbish being thrown by Malaysians who have Chinese ancestors in the faces of those who don’t all the time. I share ancestors with very few Malaysians, I suspect. My wife and our children have Chinese ancestors.
The bare truth is that success is often utterly, frustratingly independent of hard work. If “just a moment” believes there is no Malaysian that appears to enjoy a very high standard of living without hard work, then I don’t believe he lives in the same Malaysia I do. If he believes there are no Malaysians who work themselves to the bone from morning until night, from cradle to the grave, to experience nothing but gruelling poverty, well, I don’t believe “just a moment” gets out much.
I am involved in one or two businesses in Malaysia, and the race-based trading practices, price fixing / price gouging activities that seems to the sole preserve of the community that calls itself “Chinese” here are a constant problem. Those same practices are almost universally illegal in the modern world outside Malaysia.
It’s not just a problem for businesses – the problem even manifests itself in shops. In the UK I can buy products made in the PRC which are not crap. They’re actually good quality! Where can you find a Chinese product like that in Malaysia? What’s more, in the UK, those quality PRC products are half the price of the crap versions on sale in Malaysia! I can pay half for a PRC product in the UK that will last me a lifetime. In Malaysia, I can pay double for a “made in China” product that I have to replace every year, if it doesn’t break at the first use.
In my opinion, and I know there will be people who feel unfairly accused – I’m sorry about that, I’m new to racial abuse – the “Chinese community” in Malaysia is at least as responsible as any other for holding the country back. A great many of them practice egregious self-enrichment at the direct cost of neighbours who don’t appear to be closely related to them. Many of those same individuals sing the same tune as ‘just a moment’: “work hard like me mah, only jealous is it?”, while actively guaranteeing that hard work is all some of their fellow countrymen can ever hope for.
This gleefully arrogant, racist propaganda, repeated over and over again like a mantra in Malaysia makes me want to puke. It undermines the efforts of anybody who wishes to make Malaysia a better place for all her citizens.
‘They’ control the economy, because they can. Your trading laws are too weak to stop the asset-stripping practices that any half-competent Monopoly player knows will give them the game. Instead of decent trading laws, you have a creeping nationalisation, a simpler law, that won’t ‘preserve the nation for its people’, it will just transfer assets into the hands of a few powerful families. Exactly what the rules of Monopoly (the board game) would do, just different families.
Ooh look, a rant! I’m sorry about that. I’m doubly sorry to my some of my genuinely welcoming, public-spirited Malaysian neighbours who appear to me to have Chinese ancestors, who do work honestly hard – they appear to me to be doing just as well as my non-ancestrally-Chinese Malaysian neighbours who also work honestly hard. That is, none of them are doing nearly as well as the ones who don’t work as hard and treat ‘honest’ like tax – something to be avoided at all costs.
I should post faster, look: “just a moment” has since used ‘double standards’ and ‘malays’ in the same comment. He is an unashamed bigot.
#12 by manusia ada akal on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 11:24 am
Thank you for enabling Justin TV. Wider audiences get to decide on this national issues. Hope will be continuously available for all future forums.
#13 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 12:54 pm
Are “race-based trading practices, price fixing / price gouging activities” the sole preserve of the Chinese as a community, which OrangRojak suggests in post at 10: 41.38?
Maybe OrangRojak could cite some examples based on lived experiences of how the Chinese trading practices in Malaysia are more particularly “race-based” in sense of intending to trade with the same community only as compared with trading practices of non-Chinese in Malaysia; and in what instances “price fixing / price gouging activities” are more pervasively carried out by the Chinese business community here where all businessmen of whatever communities are subject to the same laws (as in legislations) as well as law of the market based on supply and demand …
If, in Malaysia, one pays double for a “Made in China” product, is that due to the trading practices of the Chinese businessman in particular or it might be applicable to any other Malaysian businessman, whether Malay or Indian, assuming that they are in the business of selling “Made in China” product?
Here there seems to be an implied suggestion – correct me if I misconstrued – that:-
· The way businessmen organise and conduct their business operations especially sale of products/services is heavily influenced by practices, beliefs and orientations of the owners and managers of these organisations as governed by race and culture;
· That it is practices, beliefs and orientations of the Chinese businessmen to engage more liberally and without qualms in “race-based trading practices, price fixing / price gouging activities” than businessmen of other communities……
If such practices such as “price fixing / price gouging activities” were really prevalent here – and I am not suggesting that they actually are – are they really attributable to factors predicated upon race and culture of Chinese? Or is it predicated on the same racial stereotyping that OrangRojak disdains?
Don’t forget that it may well be true that larger proportion of Malaysian business people [excluding corprate sector] are of Chinese ancestry and it would be all too easy to assign unfairly singular blame of such practices to the Chinese as their business practices are affected by factors of race and culture as if Indian, Malay or even Caucasian business practices here would be radically different!
#14 by lbl on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 1:05 pm
“In the UK I can buy products made in the PRC which are not crap. They’re actually good quality! Where can you find a Chinese product like that in Malaysia? What’s more, in the UK, those quality PRC products are half the price of the crap versions on sale in Malaysia! I can pay half for a PRC product in the UK that will last me a lifetime. In Malaysia, I can pay double for a “made in China” product that I have to replace every year, if it doesn’t break at the first use.”
I find it hard to believe this is the case. Probably you could name some of the products you have purchased. As far as I know , you get what you pay for.
Probably OrangRojak could give some tips on what to purchase when you are in UK?
#15 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 1:25 pm
This can only happen if it holds true that the Chinese in Malaysia could buy these PRC’s products from PRC Chinese businessmen where businessmen of other races here could not do so!
Because if businessmen of other races could buy from China, then they could sell the PRC products here with greater volume and more successfully with greater profits at prices lower than that offered for sale by Malaysian Chinese businessmen driving the later out of business in no time.
I am assuming here that (1) PRC businessmen would sell to any Malaysian buyer whatever his ancestry provided he buys in sufficient volume and has financial credibility and the right letters of credit; and (2) the market from Malaysia constituted of whatever races will buy the PRC products from their Malaysian importers/retailers of whatever the racial or cultural origin for so long as the price for the same quality is lower!
I don’t think (1) nad (2) are invalid assumptions.
#16 by just a moment on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 1:25 pm
OrangRojak Says:
Today at 10: 41.38 (2 hours ago)
————————————-
Thanks for your ‘reaction’. Its your own opinion, you are entitle to it. Your remarks instead of clarifying ASSUMES too much. It doesn’t help in making an Ass out of you n me either. What makes you think I don’t know there are ppl like you who like very high standard of living without hard work? You are like the one who builts castle in the air charges rent from others or a Parasites that will never appreciate what others have gone thru.
You just demonstrate you are a sore losers in any business you pursue simply OrangRojak treats Chinese businessman like ‘rubbish’
By the way, in case OrangRojak still live in his own self-denying
world that Chinese here has limited choice from Goment but to do with whats given, we do it well. OrangRojak, open your eyes, Its not just in Malaysia. In every corner of the world, since you travel overseas, have you notice ‘China Town?’ So don’t make myopic remarks as though OrangRojak is the only person who travels.
No doubt you must still be a punk trying hard to be a man.
Just because you don’t fit, does not mean others are selfish and ‘old fashion’, probably you are just dumb.
bigot or not ‘safe it for yourself’ unashame? just like OrangRojak
#17 by kftang on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 2:06 pm
Thank you very much to YB LKS and DAP Malaysia for answering our supporters’ call to have the public forum live on the net in Justin.tv. The deliberations will now no doubt reach a wider audience nationwide because we don’t expect the media/press which is government-controlled to report on the forum. A million kudos to one and all! Happy viewing!
#18 by just a moment on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 2:31 pm
Yes! YB Kit,
Im sure those who can’t make it to the forum would have a chance to follow as well. Looking forward to it.
Lets hope its the beginning of more live coverage hereon.
Thanks Keep up the great work.
#19 by OrangRojak on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 3:02 pm
OK a lot of points to tackle. I’ll try to answer 1 by 1.
Jeffrey: ‘lived experiences’. A thin line for me to tread between generalisation and defamation.
“seems to be sole preserve”: I have as yet not had the pleasure of a business partner who is not of Chinese ancestry in Malaysia. I suspect this may be due to the particular lines of business I have had limited experience of in Malaysia. I have heard such people exist.
“race based trading practices”: Is it because I is white? My wife won’t let me go into some stores any more, as it costs us too much. The same store has better prices for her on the same day for the same products. More ‘lived experiences’ recounted in detail would be sailing close to defamation. Your ‘subject to the same laws’ is in line with the later part of my argument: your laws do nothing to prevent discriminatory pricing. If you measure success by wealth, it would be a foolish man that didn’t use every business device at his disposal.
I see you speculate that there could be a cultural cause for the alleged misdeeds. I did not suggest, nor is it my intention to, that there is a ‘cultural’ cause for the phenomena I observe in Malaysia. My observation is only that these things exist. If I was forced to answer a “why” question, my first guess would be that it’s inevitable with permissive trading laws, regardless of people – or any superficial similarities between them – involved.
“assign unfairly singular blame”. Absolutely right Jeffrey! My only experience of business in Malaysia is limited in scope and duration, and so far as my untrained race-spotting eye is concerned, limited to a single “race”. My observation is that ‘success’ in Malaysia is not solely obtained with ‘hard work’. Not a particularly interesting, nor unique observation, but intended to rebut the suggestion that “if you’re not Chinese and not successful, maybe you’re not trying.”
lbl: It’s not so noticeable with high-end products like mobile phones, computers, TVs. It’s the little stuff that haemorrhages money: fittings like switches and sockets. Extension leads (I actually ended up buying extension mains leads from the UK (made in China!), I had so many that stopped working in whole or in part here). Bags, suitcases, that kind of thing. I was going to mention stores, but I guess that could be defamation again…
I’m used to “getting what I paid for”, but I don’t feel that the correlation is quite as sound in Malaysia as it might be elsewhere.
Jeffrey: “at prices lower than that offered” – that’s what a law against “sole distributor” arrangements protects. You don’t have such a law I think – I did make some initial enquiries, the first time I ‘fancied a day in court’. A local sole importer was selling products at a surprisingly large markup, and insisting their agents do the same. The obvious (to me, am I being naive?) thing to do, for a new-to-market company is to sell at a lower price to capture some market share. The recommended price was way above what was needed to make a healthy profit, but the importer made sticking to the price a condition of supply. Depending on your business mores, this may seem right, or it may seem wrong. It is illegal where I come from, and where I come from, I pay less for similar products than you do here, when it is financially possible to make a healthy business here at a lower price.
just a moment: “Chinese here has limited choice” – my wife shouted something similar when she saw my comment. Perhaps I’m not making myself clear enough. The businesses I mention are not mine – they’re hers. And the problems with protective trading practices are problems for her. It doesn’t matter how hard she works, she has been denied access to markets in which she could make the same good business she’s made in other local markets. I imagine it would be the same for any Malaysian, of any ancestry, trying to enter a new market here. While profits exist on paper and hard work is something a person feels sure they can do, the reality is that the incumbents control who is going to be successful. You do not live in a meritocracy, as you rightly observe.
#20 by OrangRojak on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 3:08 pm
The justin.tv thing looks great, looking forward to watching tonight! I might even check at the local DAP branch to see if they’re having a screening there.
Does it require very much equipment at the recording end? It would be great to see some ‘roving reports’ on some of the DAP events I’ve read about on the blog.
#21 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 4:08 pm
OrangRojak,
Thanks for the more “qualified” response. Can’t really deal much with the issues raised as they are extraneous to Blog thread subject here, but just one or two thoughts of what you commented occurred to me.
These people – can be whatever race – jack up the price, thinking you’re not local, you’re a tourist or someone to be taken advantage of.
It happens in many other countries – this taking advantage of non locals. Nothing to do with vendor or buyer of Chinese ancestry and their practices.
Your statement “your laws do nothing to prevent discriminatory pricing” is not entirely correct.
We do have the Consumer Protection Act 1999 which makes an offence a ‘not so credible’ merchant that misleads as to price. [You don’t see this ‘discriminatory pricing’ in big and reputable departmental stores]. Nothing is done as enforcement by authorities, in the absence of persistent complaint, is less than rigorous, and, besides, consumers don’t really know about or bother to make or file complaint to the Controller of Consumer Affairs and Tribunal for Consumer Claims under the purview of the Ministry of Trade provided by that Act.
Your comment about “prices lower than that offered” – a law against “sole distributor” arrangements – I am not familiar, I think you may be right that there is no such law.
Price maintenance based on high mark up on local importer’s part – passed on to lower tiers of retailers – is also attributable to franchise and exclusive agency/distributorship terms imposed by foreign manufacturers and suppliers. So by contract the locals are legally bound by the terms.
Your comment on being used to “getting what I paid for” – to some extent it could be true – again not related to any race – but here due to laxity of enforcement or more unbridled capitalism, some of the goods are below expectations.
However here – as elsewhere – you should know where to go to buy your products. Besides you have recourse under Consumer Protection Act 1999 regarding misrepresentation on quality, merchantability and fitness of purpose in relation to products, whatever, but how many of us bother to pursue our rights with the proper agencies, let alone, the other question whether the officials in these agencies are bothered to enforce the law (Consumer Act) and help us. I have had no experience making a compliant as consumer but (rightly or wrongly) am not optimistic.
#22 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 4:11 pm
Mistype – “compliant” should be complaint.
#23 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 4:24 pm
In Malaysia, and then again also elsewhere – isn’t this universal? – success *(for any person or race) is a function of ‘hard work’, ‘smart work’, ‘useful opportunities from good network of connections’, repute from credibility of honoring your words and financial obligations, good attitude to staff and clients alike, competent advisors, quality of goods and services and most of all -luck and luck in being right place and right time, and right inspiration… :)
#24 by All For The Road on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 5:22 pm
We must humbly thank saudara kftang for initiating the call to the DAP to telecast ‘live’ the said public forum on justin.tv at 8.00 tonight. Our call and prayer have been answered to the good of all. Response for the ‘live’ forum has been tremendous. Hopefully in the future, such forum and the like should be aired ‘live’ by the DAP for a nationwide audience without which we will be deprived of such information and news. Once again, thanks to one and all and ‘happy viewing’!
#25 by OrangRojak on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 5:34 pm
I wasn’t at the right place or the right time just now. I had another alien experience when I popped into the DAP place just up the road from here. They didn’t seem to know anything about the “assassinating a YB / press freedom” web broadcast.
Perhaps it’s a bit early to expect “joined-up e-government” while DAP’s still the Opposition! Are any other regional offices joining in the forum? I see there’s a chatbox next to the feed on justin.tv – will anybody be monitoring the chatbox at the forum?
You could probably encourage a few young whizzkids to set up something to support a web-conference for this kind of thing. I don’t know, you could promise them a lower voting age if you get into power.
#26 by just a moment on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 5:42 pm
O dear, so my intuition was right, OrangRojak betul betul Rojak.And Yes, we do live in different world. Welcome to Asia, land of diversities.Now it explain. Can’t tell which White you are from though I have friends from Minnesota US and from England, and Australia too who are white. By the way, not all Whites are the same too. Just try talking to a french with English in France or vice versa and then tell me about what you know about race-based stuff.
Like Jeffrey say: Thanks for your ‘quialified” statement. Now, I will elaborate more coz I didn’t know you’re from different ‘country-world’ literally. Firstly, I must applaude you for being a good observer on Chinese culture’s here in Malaysia, but would also remind you, instead of prejudge, try to understand and appreciate the difference as much as I towards a white.
You are spot on OrangRojak to say most business ppl you meet have some kind of ancestry linkage. Why? Simply because Malaysia has a young history as compare to say US or even UK. OrangRojak, Iam the 1st Generation truly Malaysian born. Today businessman you met are most 2 or 3rd Generation, of course there are more generation ones here. But, instead of feeling ‘sorry’ ‘indifference’ or annoyed towards these ancestry chinese, wouldn’t it be better if your approached is just accepting as they are?
On the business transaction part of it, Jeffrey has given a lot of knowledge, hints, Its up to you to understand then apply. Remember the 7 Habits by Stephen Covey thinggy OrangRojak? “Seek first to understand to be understood.”
Im fortunate to have exposed to the many advances of the western culture but here’s some subtle yet big difference. Chinese still look after their parents, though I must admit-we are slowly catching up to the west, when elderly are in old folks home, unfortunately.
The chinese today don’t just work hard of course they work smart too, we have many of these youngster who are millionaires too, in their mid 30′s. Working hard is just some basic foundation as a means to an end and not the other way round. Of course we have benefited from Anthony Robbins, Dale Carnergie, Tony buzan,…etc.. Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, and many more. I know what the mind can do as Napolean Hills, John Maxwell so often preached.
In short, OrangRojak, my ‘Working hard’ does not encompasses all and everything. Sparing the details, I hope OrangRojak, you now understand where I coming from. Thanks Jeffrey for being so so patient. You’re the man. Lets tune in at 8pm again.
#27 by henrychiah on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 6:35 pm
Just want to share this articles to everyone in chinese version
http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/91806
#28 by baochingtian on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 8:37 pm
bclee, I’m touched with your reporting of article by tulang besi.
We should have more of M who stands neutral and understands the truth. But nothing can be done to the sick toyol, why?
#29 by shamshul anuar on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 9:55 pm
Dear Ibl,
Yes. Intermarriage can be a bridge among various races. However, in matters of love, time tested romance shall prevail over any other consideration.
Perhaps, we can go back to basic. As goes the saying “melentur buluh biarlah dari rebungn in ya”, school children should study in one school. I am surprise none of DAP supporters who always “irritated” with classification like Malay or Chinese in “race” column in any official document “never” raise such an idea.
In fact, many of my friends from other countries like Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand, USA , Australia do not understand the rationale for various types of school system in Malaysia.
This is where the separation begins. The problem starts occuring due to lack of understanding among races. I wish to tell about one incident that took place in Taiping Maktab Rendah Sains Mara. There are several Chinese students in that school.
One Chinese student stood up and told how wrong he was about Malays. All this while he was made to understand that Malays do not respect Chinese and waiting for times to “kenakan” orang Cina( his own word).
However after 2 years studying among Malays, he found how wrong the message “planted” to him earlier. Malays are just like him. They have good points and some negative values. Just like any other races.
I am not here for racial bashing. Many of my friends are Chinese. My point is that we have come to a point where we do not know each other. Many Chinese do not understand how upset Malays are when Teresa Kok championing removal of Jawi on road signs. They saw it as an afront to Malay language.
As Chinese generally do not care to read Utusan Malaysia, as an example, they fail to understand how angry Malays are when Bar Council organised as forum on “Conversion to Islam” . Malays asked “Who is Ambiga ” to talk on Islam. It is not Malays are hyper sensitive. They are willing to have a forum on custody matter related to conversion to Islam but it must be organised by an authority in Islam, like Jakim or offices of Mufti.
Many Chinese failed to understand how upset Malays are when Bar Council organised Constitution. Ambiga made a blunder by only including one Malay, Farish Noor, whom none of Malays ever recognised hiom as having authority to speak about Malays.
Now imagine if A malay NGO conducted a forum about Vernacular School In Malaysia without inviting Dong Zhomg or MCA. How would the Chinese feel? Uneasy?Threatened? Upset?
As for Just a moment, I meant that UMNO earned the dominance in politics through election. That is what I meant with reigning supreme in politics. Malays community see nothing wrong Malays holding supremacy in politics as it is earned . To UMNO, it does not mince its word when it claims to be dominant in BN. It earns the right by winning more than half of seat won by BN.
UMNO is dominant . YEs. But it never threatens other political parties like MCA, MIC. What Gerakan as example refuses to see is that alliance with UMNO saves its from extinction. Let us get real.
There is nothing wrong with UMNO acting as a senior partner in Bn just like DAP in State govt of Penang or PAS in State govt in Kedah.
Many chinese and Indians cant accept banning of Hindraf. What ios so special with Hindraf. Mind you, arqam, totally a Malay religious sect, was also banned.
Many people cry out loud saying we must be tolerant. Hindraf , as what Malay know, had openly waged war to Malays and Islam, and UMNO by declaring Federal Govt involved in etnic cleansing.
If Indians can be aroused by demolition of a temple( as the land sold by the owner to a developer and developer understanding the religious sensitivity built a new temple) , why it is seen as surprising that Malays can be alarmed when they are accused of etnic cleansing.
Whatever grouses Indians have, there is always a channel. No need to wage war against Malays in order to champion your causes.
As for Jefrey, political parties( along racial lines) are alive. Non racial parties like Gerakan( seenby Malays as championing Chinese rights only fared quite badly.
As for Ruyom, if UMNO is so racist, you will not see any vernacular school left in Malaysia. UMNo is not racist. It is defender of the Malays but it also cares for other races.
What is your comment on “Mandarin “is required in Chinese dailies. You see in USA, these dailies will lose their licences.
#30 by lbl on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 10:23 pm
Basically when one shop for any goods, if we have the time, we try and compare prices of the goods we intend to buy. Certain shops will sell many things cheaper than others but that particular item you may want will be priced higher than others. The lesson to learn is we must know the pricing of the goods we want to buy.
Most shops have their own pricing system on the goods they sell.
That is why most women brag of the best bargains they get because they spend time comparing the prices.
I wonder if they compare prices of needles before they make a purchase?
#31 by OrangRojak on Thursday, 23 October 2008 - 10:28 pm
That was easily the best public information I have seen since I came to Malaysia 3 years ago. A million thanks to all involved. The MP from Shah Alam was stand-out for me.
One of the people in the chatbox mentioned a transcript. If someone could provide audio (or preferably both, I realise it won’t be small) and there is some demand for it, I’d be glad to help transcribe all the parts my ‘foreign English’ can cope with.
#32 by Dr.Ken on Friday, 24 October 2008 - 3:47 pm
Obviously , Zak_hammaad have never experience the real freedom of Press/ speech, and most probably never lived in any western nation.Real freedom of press/speech available to everyone in Malaysia ? Not that many people agree.Take a look a blogger/whistle blower Raja petra K being detained under ISA for bringing justice, can the Gov’t prove that he lie /slander ? Did the gov’t take a good look at his SD & investigate further on his claim ?
We are lucky that Atantuya S is Not a US citizen otherwise Putrajaya & KL will be flattened by Tomahawk cruise Missiles & smart bombs.
Former Sabah chief minister Datuk Harris salleh detained sabahan who voice protest against his intention to give Labuan to the Fed. gov’t. This what Zak _ hammaad said freedom of press/speech exist in malaysia
Many Journalists & politician like Karpal singh , Lim kit siang , chong tain vun ,Yap pak Leong etc. have been detained under ISA for voicing opinion against the Gov’t.Nevertheless , complete freedom of press/speech never exist in most of the south east Asia nation like malaysia. what can we do ? A 3rd world nation !
#33 by shamshul anuar on Sunday, 26 October 2008 - 9:14 pm
Dr Ken,
If freedom of speech means that you can detain any men simply because they look like an Arab or push Holy Kuran into toilet bowl than I am afraid even you will not cherish it.
If fredom of speech means creating imaginery threat aagainst a sovereign nation that everybody knows is not the truth , then that is not freedom of speech.
No need to feel embarass with Malaysia’s stand. Ussually Western countries like to lecture others about good governance although they are the worse offenders.
I am not saying there are no good values worth to be imitated from Western culture. I just abhor colonial mentality that says only Western value worth cherished.
No Malays are surprised about RPK’s detention. He really deserves it. It is one thing being critical. It is another story when you insult a religion or Prophet.
There is no such thing as absolute freeedom. There is limit to everything. Surely you know it. As example, Penang DAP is not at liberty to choose its chairman as Chief Minister. The coveted post is “handad” over to “imported “Son Of the Emperor Lim Kit siang.
So, sometimes, do look at the mirror.