If the Permatang Pauh by-election is decided by the Nomination Day turnout this morning, Parti Keadilan Rakyat (PKR) adviser Anwar Ibrahim would win hands down.
Never before in any by-election nomination in Malaysian electoral history has the Barisan Nasional been so-outnumbered and overwhelmed, whether in terms of supporters; publicity materials whether flags, buntings or banners; or sheer enthusiasm, morale and spirit of the supporters.
In the sea of humanity at the Nomination Centre this morning, Anwar’s supporters from the three Pakatan Rakyat parties of PKR, DAP and PAS simply drowned out the Barisan Nasional supporters from Umno, MCA, Gerakan and MIC, led by a very subdued Deputy Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Najib Razak himself, Umno Youth leader Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein and his deputy Khairy Jamaluddin.
There are those who estimate that the crowd was as big as 100,000 or more, with the Pakatan Rakyat supporters exceeding the Barisan Nasional supporters by a ratio of from 1:7 to 1:10.
UMNO Youth Hishammuddin yesterday played the sympathy card when he “begged” Permatang Pauh voters to support the Barisan Nasional candidate “because we are the underdog”.
The role of an “underdog” does not sit well with Hishammuddin as memories among Malaysians are still fresh that he was far from being an underdog when he wielded the Malay keris at the Umno Youth general assembly for three consecutive years, utterly insensitive of the sensitivities of a multi-racial Malaysia. Nor is the Prime Minister’s son-in-law best cast in the role of an “underdog”!
The impression the outnumbered and demoralized BN team gave at the Nomination Centre this morning was certainly not one of an “underdog” but of a Chinese description of the “rat running across the street”!
Anwar is right however in his caution to all workers and supporters not to be complacent and take the BN mechanism lightly, as the BN is fully capable of turning the table on polling day by snatching victory from the jaws of defeat with its tested “bag of dirty tricks”.
It is a sad commentary on Anwar’s total lack of confidence in the independence and integrity of the electoral system that Dr Mansor Othman, former Penang PKR leader, had to be nominated as an independent candidate as a “strategic contingency” move in case Anwar was unreasonably and unjustly disqualified – with Mansor announcing his withdrawal when Anwar sailed through the nomination process, forfeiting RM15,000 in the process!
Anwar had very good reason to take such a precautionary measure as the decision by the Election Commission to fix a Tuesday – August 26 – as the polling day for the by-election was clearly unfair and undemocratic, designed to discourage a high voter turn-out being a working day particularly for the high percentage of factory workers in the constituency and therefore unfavourable to Anwar’s candidature.
The battle royale of the Permatang Pauh by-election for the next ten days is on – with far reaching consequences not just for Anwar and the constituency, but for the nation and 27 million Malaysians.
#1 by Freddy on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 4:21 pm
All the best wishes to Pakatan Rakyat. May Anwar win with a bigger majority.
#2 by roger lim on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 4:31 pm
Pagi tadi seronok sangat ke Permatang Pauh. Menjerit-jerit sampai kerongkong pun lingkup. Tapi nak komplain satu je. Ada satu budak BN
tayang punggung dia kat sayalah. Nasib baik ada bengteng, kalau tak siaplah punggung dia. Celaka punya budak. Adik beradik Saiful kut?
#3 by tenaciousB on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 4:35 pm
The funny thing was, the DPM was booed by the public, and the other leaders of the BN that turned up namely samy vellu, koh tsu koon, sharizat…oh man have these people no shame, they lost the elections with utter embarassment and they turned up!?!?!
These are the politicians that malaysians have tolerated all these years so much so they don’t even have an ounce of remorsefulness and would like another crack at being a despiseful politician with personal agendas.
The people have voted them out but yet they still hold prominet positions in the government therefore what i reckon the people should do is totally ignore and boycott their significance in whatever way possible, For starters the press should stop taking note of their appearances in any events. Just strike off their so called celebrity status!
#4 by a-malaysian on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 4:43 pm
All precautions must be taken. Volunteers and supporters of PR do not be complacent and be on the alert of umno dirty tricks. umno is going all out to win by dirty means together with the unfair EC.
Permatang Pauh By Election, Who will Prevail
GE 13 – No matter what, we must ensure that racist umno bn do not regain the power like they had for the past fifty years.
#5 by KennyGan on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 4:44 pm
YB Lim,
The EC has certainly committed a disgusting partisan act by putting polling day on a working day. Making a round trip back from the work place to vote is just too impractical.
But despite this, voter turnout can be encouraged by telling voters to vote first before going to work. Factories and companies must accept late arrivals without penalty on Aug 26 for their staff and workers. Bus Kilang from Permatang Pauh should be re-scheduled.
#6 by Freddy on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 4:46 pm
with all the protests and demonstrations shown nationwide regards UiTM, it is also an opportunity for the people to know the stand taken by BN, especially its component parties … Gerakan, MCA and Gerakan.
it would be wonderful to hear from them. hahaha
#7 by yhsiew on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 4:47 pm
Sarimah Ali, a 33-year-old teacher who was among the huge crowd of Anwar supporters, said the renewed allegations were of no concern.
“Nobody believes Saiful. His swearing in the mosque yesterday makes it more clear that it’s a government conspiracy to bring down Anwar,” he said. – YAHOO ASIA NEWS
——————————————————————-
Apparantly Saiful’s swearing yesterday has backfired!
#8 by Loyal Malaysian on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 4:57 pm
May the force be with all Permatang Pauh voters who are on the side of change – for a better, freer, more just , democractic and civil Malaysia.
The voters there have this unique opportunity to give Anwar the mandate to work for change in Malaysia or otherwise derail it.
I have no illusions as to the sort of weapons BN will employ, I can but hope Anwar and his strategists will be up to them.
But at the end of the day, despite the biasness of the Elections Commission and the machinery of BN, opposition candidates had triumphed before.
Anwar should and must!!
#9 by Patek 1472 on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 5:03 pm
Permatang Pauh Voters decide for Nation?
Pengundi Permatang Pauh tentukan untuk Negara?
1. Voters of Permatang Pauh will vote come 26 August 2008. Who to vote for and What to vote for? (Man of Honour in Nostradamus Quatrains on Wag the Dog?)
Pengundi-pengundi Permatang Pauh akan undi menjelang 26 Ogos 2008. Mengundi Siapa and mengundi untuk Apa? (Man of Honour di Nostradamus Quatrains Wag the Dog?)
2. 50 Questions to test your Conscience at Jeyklls and Hydes in Malaysia – Are You?
50 Soalan untuk menguji Suara Hati anda di Jeyklls and Hydes di Malaysia. Adakah Anda?
http://patek1472.wordpress.com
#10 by Mr Smith on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 5:04 pm
That swearing is worth 2 sen.
Just walk into any court and see the number of witness who take oath – to tell the truth and nothing but the truth – and then lie through their teeth.
Remember the Lingam Inquiry – former Chief Justices and even Mahathir lied. So what’s the difference between Saiful and all these witnesses.
Remember how the IGP and AG lied about the indelible ink on the eve of the GE. They too lied like Saiful.
PAS ulamaks have said this swearing is invalid.
Saiful said he did not know that Anwar was contesting the by election but in his blog he had wished him good luck.
So he swears and the very next minute he lies.
#11 by penang308 on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 5:19 pm
The atmophere was “FANTASTIC”, regardless of race, we were shouting “ALTANTUYA” & “REFORMASI”.
This is the beginning of “THE END” of “RACIST BN GONE-MAN”.
#12 by k1980 on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 5:23 pm
Can’t the Penang State Government declare 26 August as a holiday to be replaced by a Saturday?
http://anilnetto.com/malaysian-elections/live-10000-pkr-supporters-but-where-is-the-bn-crowd/
#13 by taikohtai on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 5:33 pm
If TDM even admitted that DSAI cannot be defeated in PP, BN better be prepared to face him in Putrajaya and stop wasting tax payers money with this by-election.
But then again, UMNO or rather BN has over RM200 million of election pamphlets, banners and so on, so they rather continue make use of their ill-gotten assets and hope for an AM-KONG? Such is this BN party that has no shame, no morals, no nothing!
DSAI, WELCOME BACK!!
#14 by Tulip Crescent on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 5:37 pm
Freddy
The write-up and photograph of the 5,000-strong UiTM protests were somehow taken off. I thought I saw the report in Malaysiakini last night before dinner, but somehow it was taken off after I returned from dinner.
Perhaps, “they” know that it is embarrassing. Firstly, students are not supposed to do that. Secondly, when universities in the American outback are prepared to given Asian students scholarships just to get them to compete with American students, we have such a stew-pee’d policy in place. Probably, they are stewing the pees.
#15 by just a moment on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 5:37 pm
Well, well, I can almost feel the excitment though Im not there at Permatang Pauh. Ppl, keep the rest updated. Nice to know the support overwhelms the “Dogs going under” Underdogs?
Best Wishes – Full steam ahead!!! PR!!!
(Before) Saifools – Final Acts of desperation On Eve of Campaign.
(During) Others ploys – Watch out for the so called people who
suppose to protect or prevents.
(After) PR and nation celebrates The Birth of New Nation
The Malaysia that we called “Home” Free from fleas & ticks.
#16 by Tulip Crescent on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 5:44 pm
Yes, having a back-up candidate was a good move, although it cost RM15,000.
This underlines that the PKR and Pakatan campaign cannot allow complacency to set in.
In the days before the Internet, I recall, a cross was put on the Kadazan headgear that a then Opposition figure wore.
Beware of dirty tricks. And don’t ever read the mainstream newspapers.
Let us march to victory. Let us secure the new politics where principles and policies prevail. Let us do away with the politics of expediency.
Koh Tsu Koon should not be there. During his watch, the Penang Scouts ended up with the lease of their Coronation Camp being taken away.
Even Jubilee Camp has gone. And that was the site where the First Malaysian Jamboree was held.
Don’t ask me for more … because it is a big scandal involving very big names.
#17 by k1980 on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 5:49 pm
Photos from the nomination
http://sloone.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/i-was-at-p44-mother-of-all-elections-with-pixs/
#18 by isahbiazhar on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 5:49 pm
Annuar will win with a better majority and prove to the world that even by swearing in the mosque the people will still vote for him.The tide has changed and it will be next to impossible for UMNO/BN to win.It is in the interest of the nation for UMNO/BN to reduce oil prices and free the HINDRAF detainees.I see a bleak future for the government.The whole world is against them.Never in the history of the nation has one person brought such a change to the thinking of the people.To please the Indians perhaps MARA university wil be opened to them for a start.To please the Chinese perhape the ERA college will be given a university status.To please the Malays perhaps all those above the age of 70 will be given a monthly pension of RM500.All these will not change the people from voting Annuar into power.He will be the next PM.It is fated,
#19 by badak on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 6:13 pm
Dr Mansor would not had lost his RM15.000 if he waited 3 days.There is a cooling off period.Any candidate that drop of before the cooling of period his money will be given back….
#20 by KennyGan on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 6:14 pm
Yes! It is the beginning of the end for the corrupt BN regime. The people have spoken. All the lies and manufactured scandals can’t turn the tide. Anwar will win the seat by a huge margin and onwards to Putrajaya!
#21 by ShiokGuy on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 6:16 pm
Dear YB
The following is my open letter to P44: Permatang Puah voter
AFVL = Action First Vote Later
http://shiokguy.blogspot.com/2008/08/permatang-pauh-voter-afvl.html
No more I promise if I am elected kind of talk!
Shiok Guy
#22 by peterchiang on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 6:34 pm
Come on BN, you should not under estimate the wisdom of Pematang Pauh folks. They know who to choose between a future PM and a ya-betol-man.
UMNO should seriously consider making up a story such that Arif is potentially a future Prime Minister of malaysia and lay out the path and milestones how he can do so after winning the seat.
A future PM who can speaks Mandarin the way Arif did can be attractive enough to swing votes, but certainly not another ya-betol-man. Alantun should know we oledi have enufff Mandarin speaking ya-betol-men in Parliament.
#23 by wanderer on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 6:40 pm
Barring any dirty tricks from BN, Anwar will win convincing…never a doubt in my mind. It is so refreshing and encouraging, to see the tremendous turn out of supporters for our future PM.
From the photos, I saw of this morning event, there was definitely not too many smiles in BN camp…it made my day!!
#24 by just a moment on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 7:04 pm
Thanks a zillion k1980, for those wonderful photos.
Keep em comin’. PR!!!
#25 by Godfather on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 7:11 pm
I wonder where UMNO gets their funds for the banners, posters and buntings. Perhaps Amin Shah donated these out of pity for the party.
Doesn’t UMNO realise that we have been sodomised for the past 30 years ?
#26 by sirrganass on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 7:29 pm
Look: THe nomination day was intead a PR celebration day. All the leaders are THERE! TGNA (PAS) LKS (DAP) DSAI (PKR) and THOUSANDS of supporters from all these three parties. A GREAT DAY!!!
Now, pls, everybody, for PERMATANG PAUH, pls set up groups to monitor all UMNO machineries, especially PUTERI UMNO who determine to go “ALL OUT” to win. All puteri UMNO must be adviced to go home because they are cheated by somebody who said “campaigning for BN is a JIHAD” which is not true at all (non of ULAMAK agree with this). Ladies of PUTERI UMNO are not spiritually well guided, they can ask very wild for handsome payments. Tell them that it is better for ladies to stay at home!
Always stand-by to see if any PUTERI UMNO enter any village and catch them red-handed if they start giving money to kampung villagers.
You see, millions of Malays from PKR and PAS (also in DAP) have agreed that the malays in UMNO are not really good people, so all of you can go ahead asking the voters not to choose the bad government.
THose live is Permatang Pauh pls work hard! We need to change the government. If you have to BALIK KAMPUNG take an unpaid leave, pls do it!
THANKs to K1980 for wonderful pictures. I am in Kelantan and i miss the “celebration”. Thanks again!
Saiful case? ha! we don’t know what type of “sumpah” he is making – it is NOT the teaching is ISLAM to do that. So, let him and his sifu do whatever he wants. Anwar doesn’t have to follow the stupid tune. Everybody knows he did this just before the nomination day and so the reason is very obvious.
Pakatan Rakyat will win (insyaAllah – God Willingly!)
#27 by pulau_sibu on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 7:35 pm
Why Saiful not showing his ‘damaged’ butt at the same time? he can show it through a recorded video. Even that, we are not sure who actually disturbed his butt… Religion is a belief, and I doubt how can one use a religion to ask you to believe in him, instead of believing in God/Allah??
#28 by ReformMalaysia on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 7:38 pm
Value of Saiful’s SUMPAH? -zero!
If he use another primitive way – soaking himself in a drum of boiling oil, and come out OK…… perhaps I can believe him…
#29 by digard on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 7:51 pm
And the best is, the UMNO supporters are being ‘compensated’ while the PKR supporters come out of conviction!
Well done!
#30 by Elwin Heng on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 8:20 pm
Who polluted value of ‘swore’ or ‘sumpah’?
No guts to show up few weeks (or even months) ago, so coincidence his appearance is shameful that chosen the day before by-election nomination date! Open our eyes, see why such coincidences can happened in our country; isn’t it plenty ‘blue’ dirty or dishonest politic threats!
Referred to today press information, increment of ‘bus fee scheme’ might be confirmed and/or approved by ‘blue’? Intend to query ‘blue’, why must wait until or after by-election of Permatang Pauh then only ready for announcement?
From the day of petrol price hiked, ‘blue’ administration had burdened us, doubt:”why no guts or preparation to face on 308 voter and/or 826 voter, just affirmative and announce the latest ‘bus fee scheme’ to publicity?
Realization is required!
Permatang Pauh voter, understanding today ‘blue’ coincidences; look@ your pocket, daily expenses, our generations’ education journey…
I/we lived under ‘blue’ administration for 51 years, recent years, how is our life style? money into our own pocket, or else ‘blue’? How many ‘blue’ administrators awarded ‘titles’ or ‘millionaire’ or ‘billionaire’? What is ‘blue’ contribution to us and/or our lovely peaceful country?
Sincere wishing all Permatang Pauh qualified voters, give a chance to us, a chance to Pakatan Rakyat (PR), a chance to En. Anwar, a chance to yourself and our generation-by-generations!
Authenticate and authorize En. Anwar back to parliament, on behalf of us as ‘knight’ or ‘warrior’; new administration of CAT community is seriously required!
Wishing you, Permatang Pauh voters, all the best and appreciate your votes and support to PR.PKR En. Anwar :-) !!!
TQ.
Warmest regards.
#31 by ShiokGuy on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 8:42 pm
Sodo mee of the future?
Just come across the video of Siaful swearing in the mosques..
He mentioned 26 August 2008 for the date for “Mother of all Sodomy”
http://shiokguy.blogspot.com/2008/08/saiful-sodomized-on-26-august-on-by.html
I tot we usually vividly remember those very important or bad date which affect our life. From how he was reading from the script, I can help to think he is coached.. Just my humble opinion.. Shiok Guy’s Opinion
Shiok Guy
#32 by Damocles on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 8:50 pm
The PR should think hard, very hard regarding what dirty tricks the BN, particularly UMNO can throw up and ways of countering them.
#33 by shagg.in on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 8:58 pm
Go Pakatan Rakyat, go!
I agree with calls to Permatang Pauh eligible voters, wherever you are throughout Malaysia, to consider going the extra length to cast your vote. Unpaid leave for a day or two if necessary. You are the kingmakers come Aug 26th and I believe any right-minded voters know the only ballot box that can lead Malaysia back on track is PKR’s.
Do not buy BN’s bullshit no matter how tempting. It’s time to look beyond your own backyard as Malaysia’s progress has been stunted by BN mismanagement for the pass 51 years. It’s high time we put things right again.
#34 by pkrisnin on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 9:02 pm
Which is it ?, looks like from his swearing, Saiful claimed to be sodomized by Anwar. Was it forced like he was claiming all the while or consensual like what the gov. is charging Anwar right now.
This gov. continue to make mockery of its people’s intelligence and their religion. It makes very angry.
#35 by Jong on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 9:09 pm
“….with Mansor announcing his withdrawal when Anwar sailed through the nomination process, forfeiting RM15,000 in the process!” – YB Kit
Let them forfeit it, well worth it anyway!
What a shame, shows the world how much citizens of Malaysia, Anwar Ibrahim included, have lost total confidence in the independence and integrity of the Malaysian Election Commission.
Disturbing events the past few days have showed the Election Commission, Police and mainstream Media are working in colloboration to discredit Anwar in whatever ways they can to please their political master!
They have not been fair to Anwar and that was why such precautionery measures of strategic contingency move was most necessary and well worth it.
#36 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 9:13 pm
“Desperate times call for desperate measures” – this is the new mission statement for UMNO/BN. UMNO will stop at nothing. So be prepared!
UMNO is in its death throes as a political party.
#37 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 9:15 pm
Jong,
$15k is a very small price to pay for ‘freedom, equality and justice for all !!
#38 by grace on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 9:26 pm
PERMATAN VOTERS,
YOU ARE OUR VOICES AT THIS POINT IN TIME!
VOTE OVERWHELMINGLY FOR ANWAR JUST TO SHOW PAK LAH THAT WE ARE REALLY FED UP OF HIS ADMINISTRATION AND HIS CABINET MINISTERS!
#39 by just a moment on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 9:35 pm
Folks, Wow, just thinking about it.
10 days more to go!! Theres no doubt it’s gonna be the longest 10days I’ll ever lived!!
Know what?
Its not just witnessing the birth of New Nation.
Its the crumbling of “51 Yrs of Bondage”!!
Watch carefully in all forms of media
How an empire succum, just before the last dying breath.
What strategies, methods, actions, smokescreen, Lies,
will be envail day by day till Election date.
Desperado will used Sai-fool in terms of religion swearing.
How low more, can one imagine these ppl are prepare to go
just to stay alive.
Be vigilent pls and continue praying for protection, strengths, wisdom, and courage for DSAI and family plus all the PR ppl.
We shall overcome!!!
#40 by pjboy on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 9:41 pm
Agree with Undergrad. The 15K is worth the sacrifice in this case. With the huge 100k people turn, everyone just need to make a 15cent donation to pay for the 15k forfeiture. BN-UMNO-Baru screw us all Malaysians mega billions anyway, so what’s 15k???
To all PP-voters out there: Aug-26 is your once in a lifetime chance to make history, not only for fellow Malaysians but to the rest of the world. This will probably never ever happen again. Even the rest of the world have no confidence with our current ruling gov coz they are only interested in enriching themselves, family members & cronies. This is the BN-UMNO-Baru legacy started by TDM.
BN-UMNO-Baru & EC has made it difficult for PP-voters to go & vote on that day. No surprise that the factories or companies would have been approached by BN agents to make it difficult for their employees. Do not let all this deter you. The factories still need you regardless otherwise they will close down. Get the unions involve – unless the unions are in the BN fence…but report such cases to P-R officers should any employers do not allow you to excercise your most powerful right as a citizen ie to vote. Do not let them rob you of your one & only right to voice out to the gov. A day that you can voice your disatisfaction without being jailed for ISA!!! A voice withour sound & a very powerful one indeed.
It’s a small sacrifice for the future of our country. That 1 day can mean the next 50 years for Malaysia. Think of the future generations.
Finally, the whole of Malaysia now rest in your hands. Show them who is the BOSS.
#41 by Jong on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 9:46 pm
Yeah I agree with you Undergrad2.
Vote Anwar – Movement for Change!
#42 by Tulip Crescent on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 9:48 pm
This is what I just got from Susan Loone’s blog:
‘Kunta Kinte (20:45:08) :
‘One group within the Pakatan Rakyat camp shouted “Najib” and the other replied “Altantuya.” This went on and on.
‘Then one group within the Pakatan Rakyat camp shouted “Lawan Tetap Lawan” while the other group, this time from the Barisan Nasional replied “Liwat Tetap Liwat.”
‘Meanwhile, Santa Claus descended on this lovely morning in August – yes, August, because Christmas comes early this year, at least in Permatang Pauh – and gave a few million ringgit to the Chinese schools.’
What does this all mean? Mongolians in Malaysia? Santa Claus in Permatang Pauh? August? I thought Christmas was in December.
#43 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 9:51 pm
Yeah, I agree with you agreeing with me!
#44 by Yee Siew Wah on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 10:19 pm
Do not waste our time of this idiot “Sai the FOOL”. He was plugged from behind so much recently that his arse has gone to his mouth. He is now vomiting shit whenever he speaks. The whole world does not listen and believe in him anymore.
Lets concentrate on the Permatang Puah election. I hope all PKR supporters to ensure a BIG victory for DSAI. Rakyat must open their eyes and ears to make sure the BN do not play their usual dirty tricks on voters. Watch the EC guys too because they r also under BN influence.
Long live PKR!!!!
#45 by badak on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 10:51 pm
I Will be PERMATANG PAUH.My job, i will be taking photos of government vehicles with BN FLAGS or POSTERS..I will take pictures of all out station PERJAPAT PERNERAGAN VEHICLES.Gorvernment machineny cannot be used.
#46 by shamshul anuar on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 10:59 pm
Dear Yhsiew,
Being a non Muslim, you. I assume do not understand the significance of swearing in God’s name and asking for divine punishment should one lie.
The fact that Saiful swore shows that he is dead serious about his allegation. The fact that Anwar refuses to swear reflects that he understands the consequence of lying while swearing in God’s name. The fact that Mufti of Perlis and all Muslims are waiting for him to swear shows that that it is accepted practice in Islam. It is the ultimate act of telling the truth .
What is there to be afraid of. If you have not committed the act of sodomy, please swear in full view of the world. It will enhance your reputation. People will say ‘”See Anwar had sworn in God’s name” . The burden will be on Saiful again.
Why the hesitation. As goes the saying “Berani kerana benar”.
By the way , I agree with Undergrad2. Vote for Anwar is vote Change. I had seen him in his political life. Perhaps because I have the advantage to live in constituency bordering Permatang Pauh. If I were to be Anwar, I would be ashamed of what I am doing to PM. It was Pm’s influence as UMNO Liason Chief in Penang that enable him to get cooperation from UMNo Permatang Pauh to support him. Initially, they were reluctant to accept him in Permatang Pauh in 1982 as he just joined UMNO.
AS Saiful had sworn, the attention turns to Anwar. Malay community is asking this million dollar question. Why he is reluctant to swear of his innocence , knowing well the act of swearing as in what Saiful did is the ultimate act of declaring one’s honesty as one is inviting Divine punishment should a person lie.
so, Anwar. What are you waiting for?
#47 by RKP on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 11:04 pm
We were touched by Tok Guru Nik’s presence, though he was not that well..He is a good example. YB Karpal Singh and LKS too.
As a CM, LGE showed exemplary support too and the presence of Selangor MB TSKI and all the other MPs of Pakatan.
We Malaysians are very proud of you all.You are all very capable men.Your excellent leaderships reflected well on the Pakatan supporters.
Well done DSAI and the wonderful Pakatan team. May God be with you always.
#48 by mata_kucing on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 11:04 pm
They still don’t get it do they? The more they play dirty, the more the people hate them. They are losing whatever little sympathy votes they have left and yet they continue to do things in their merry way. It’s not about Anwar anymore. People are really fed up and even if they stop Anwar by whatever dirty means up their sleeves, PR will gather strength until they form the next government. This is the people’s wish.
#49 by imranj78 on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 11:17 pm
Anwar needs to win by a big margin to be convincing. While I expect this to be more likely then not, if the contrary happens and his majority is reduced, this will not bid well for him and PR. PR is showing a lot of cracks lately especially with PAS just starting to flex their muscle. With so much negative energy directed towards Anwar from PAS grassroots, it will be interesting to see how people from PAS vote. Expect more muscle flexing from PAS in the coming weeks. PAS will indeed be the king maker in the end, not Anwar.
#50 by imranj78 on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 11:21 pm
One more thing, PR needs to have stronger control over their supporters. There have been too many incidences lately which reflect terribly on the mentality of PR supporters. Reporters being bashed up, ladies being molested by PR supporters. I hope this does not reflect what lies ahead if Anwar wins.
#51 by shamshul anuar on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 11:28 pm
Dear Imranj78,
To win big, I strongly advise Anwar to accept the challenge by Saiful to swear in God’s name. Oh dear. Do not be afraid to accept the challenge. What is there to be afraid of the act of swearing in God’s name if you had not committed sodomy on Saiful.
So, the topic of Chong Wei enters finale pales to the story of Anwar not accepting challenge by Saiful ( at least by Malay community).
Anwar, if you want to be PM and win big in this by election, please accept the challenge.
That if you have nothing to do with sodomy case. And for Saiful, woe betide those who lie.
#52 by kcb on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 11:38 pm
En. shamshul, I am not a muslim and I admit I don’t know “the significance of swearing in God’s name and asking for divine punishment should one lie.”.
However, PAS president Abdul Hadi Awang, a respected muslim, has regarded Mohd Saiful Bukhari Azlan’s act of swearing on the Quran as an act of kebodohan (stupidity) which went against the teachings of Islam (read from Malaysiakini).
Can you please enlighten us?
#53 by imranj78 on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 11:50 pm
kcb,
I must admit I am not a ustad or religious teacher who can comment on the act of swearing. But I look at it this way – Someone who makes a `Statutory Declaration’ like many have done is doing so because he believes he is right. Similarly, the act of swearing in God’s name, is only done by someone who is convinced that he is in the right. Whether the act of swearing itself is the right way to show truth I leave it open for debate but the underlying reason for the action is more important.
I am not necessarily saying that Saiful is 100% correct – nobody can be entirely sure anymore nowadays. I am just saying that with the swearing, the heat on Anwar has been increased a notch higher. Most non-Muslims might not care about the swearing but voices in the hearts of many Muslims have been triggered by the swearing. If Anwar is in the right, he has to counter the swearing effectively as his morality has been questioned in the open. It is not something to just sweep under the carpet.
#54 by Jong on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 11:55 pm
Shamshul annuar,
Don’t make me puke. Swear by the Quran, what does that prove? It does not prove their innocence.
Crooks, the corrupt, murders and conspirators do that all the time and they are never short in um-no! It means nothing to them and these scumbags are prepared to use GOD’s name hide behind religion, they have no conscience!
#55 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:01 am
What is there to be afraid of ? Open the books on PKFTZ lah….tell us who is behind the consortium bidding for the broadband project….show us the list of AP recipients. No need to swear on the Koran.
#56 by cheng on on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:04 am
Maybe both Anwar n Saiful got to swear by the holy book and also make a statuatory declaration.
#57 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:07 am
Let the voters tell us who they believe.
#58 by imranj78 on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:13 am
Godfather,
Voters should not be `used’ to decide who is right or who is wrong. Trial by media like what Anwar and his supporters have been trying to do is also not right and unethical. Decision of who to believe and who is right or wrong should and must be left to the courts to decide.
#59 by katdog on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:24 am
Agreed. Let us see who the voters believe. All those who believe Saiful was forcefully sodomised by an aging man with a bad back can vote BN.
Anwar should not be required to swear or do any petty stuff like that in order to demonstrate his innocence. If Anwar swears, does that immediately absolve him and suddenly prove that he is innocent? If Anwar was an evil man who had forcefully sodomised someone, do you think he would have any qualms about swearing his innocence on the Quran?
On the contrary, people who are guilty and desparate to maintain their innocence would probably be the first in line to swear on the Quran if that would absolve them of any crimes.
#60 by Jong on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:24 am
That gutter politician aka “batu api” has joined in the fray, calling for Anwar to swear by the Quran.
These desperados are colloborating to discredit Anwar. They are fighting for their lives to stay out of jail, when Pakatan Rakyat takes over the federal government soon and when Anwar becomes Prime Minister.
#61 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:28 am
imranj78 said:
“Voters should not be `used’ to decide who is right or who is wrong. Trial by media like what Anwar and his supporters have been trying to do is also not right and unethical. Decision of who to believe and who is right or wrong should and must be left to the courts to decide.”
Who is conducting the trial by media ? Are you referring to the mainstream media ? The last time I looked, Anwar was being declared guilty by all and sundry in the Barang Naik consortium.
Also, the last time I read an UMNOputra’s posting on this thread, it appears that UMNO isn’t going to leave the decision to the courts. UMNO clearly wants Allah to decide.
#62 by katdog on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:31 am
“Voters should not be `used’ to decide who is right or who is wrong. Trial by media like what Anwar and his supporters have been trying to do is also not right and unethical. Decision of who to believe and who is right or wrong should and must be left to the courts to decide.”
Ha ha funny. Someone just mentioned earlier that if Anwar does not dare to swear on the Quran then that must mean he has something to hide. imranj78, i think you should go tell that guy that the innocence of a man should be left to the courts, not on swears.
And i think you misinteprated the statement got things upside down. Its not the the voters will vote to decide if Anwar is innocent or not. Its the other way, voters that believe Anwar will vote PR. Voters that don’t will vote BN. So let us see who the voters believe.
#63 by I Malaysian on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:34 am
Don’t be complacent, is the right attitude. The PR members and supporters have to treat this election like the last ever to be held. Every single person could contribute something.
Harris Ibrahim of People Parliament has launched a sms message to garner support for Anwar. On my part I have sent his sms to at least 25 friends of mine and I’ll continue to send.
Hope those of our readers who have not visited his blog, to do so to get the sms message details.
#64 by I Malaysian on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:36 am
This is the sms Harris wants us to send:
Media massa arus p’dana akn m’perdayakan rkyt & m’cari helah utk gagalkan Dtk Seri Anwar Ibrm di P/Pauh dgn berita palsu – m’jatuhkan nama Dtk Seri & menanam rasa syak wasangka. Jom boikot! Jgn beli s/kabar & jgn p’caya berita radio/TV. Sebar kpd kwn2 di P/Png & P/Pauh.
By Harris Ibrahim
#65 by sirrganass on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:36 am
Anwar can now swear “just for fun” just to challenge Saifool. Nothing to do with religion because many ulamak shas said that swearing the way Saifool did is not ISLAMIC and doesn’t solve the problem.
Pakatan Rakyat can leave to your partner (PAS) for any conflict on ISLAMIC matters. There are other “funny” ustads or imam but since PAS is very good in religion matter, leave this to PAS. Ask TG Hadi Awang or Nik Aziz. Don’t ask other IMAMs because their stance on certain issues are different (UMNO-orientated)
#66 by spthang123 on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:38 am
(I am just an ordinary Malaysian and am not a member of any political party. but I just have to voice this out.
May I make a comment here in case this same message is not allowed to publish in Chedet’s blog)
TDM, in your 22 years as PM of Malaysia, you have done good but you have also done bad many times over.
On the 16.8.2008 Saturday you suggest Anwar to swear over the Koran to prove his innocent.
I too suggest you swear over the Koran that you did not frame Anwar for sodomy in year 1998.
#67 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:39 am
We can’t trust our future to the den of thieves known as UMNO, so we have to have some faith that PR will do better for us than the den of thieves. If we are wrong, we will know what to do at the next elections.
Heck, I will even vote for “Uncle Pet” at the next elections if PR doesn’t deliver the changes that they are promising should they form the federal government.
#68 by sirrganass on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:39 am
Asslamuaikum Shamsul. Saya muslim juga. All those established ULAMAK have said that SaiFOOL’s swear is not islamic and “STUPID”, but just because one IMAM in Masjid Wilayah said “go ahead” made you think ANUAR MUST SWEAR ALSO? Must we dance they way they dance?
Now somebody has to tell kcb, cheng, godfather etc which one is right.
DAP or PKR should realise that as far as PR is concerned, the reference on ISLAMIC MATTERS can be beautifully handled by PAS. That is PAS’s JOB. In the PAKATAN, DAP can be incharge of National/malaysian Unity, National Developement etc. PKR can handle economy, agriculture etc but ISLAMIC MATTERS or MALAY AFFAIR leave it to hundreds of ULAMAK in PAS. This is beautiful already!
Yes UMNO also have ulamak but we know Ustzh Mashita and few others are quite “funny”!!! At least pls refer to MUFTI PERLIS which seems to be active too but doen’t want to be under PAS. Then consider him “NATURAL”.
THe non-muslims in PR can just read harakahdaily.net or PAS.ORG.MY for the final verditions on any ISLAMIC CONFLICTS. Yes, there are sects in ISLAM on minor issues and personal opinions varies but please, PR, refer to your partner: PAS… ok? Pas won’t bite you and PAS won’t fool you. All true muslim cannot do bad thing to not only non-muslims, even “innocent” animals must not be unnecessarily touched.
PR, please refer or talk face to face with your own islamic “brother” because if you ask other funny ustads, you will get funny answers!
#69 by imranj78 on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:40 am
katdog,
Maybe you should actual read and try to understand my postings rather then read but not understand. I never said that Anwar should counter by swearing as well did I? I said he must respond to it in an effective way; in what ever way he deems best. These are different things.
And your concept of law and justice is skewed. Yes voters will decide who they `think’ is right or wrong based on their perception. But the ultimate decision depends on the courts. Outcome of an election do not decide guilt or innocence.
#70 by cintaaman on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:41 am
Dear Lim Kit Siang, please postpone the DAP general meeting, Your general meeting is 23 – 24 August, PPauh by-election will be 26 August. Utusan, BHarian & TV3 will sure to make a big perkauman issue on 25 August. They will putar belik the DAP resolutios and make the Headline on the 25 August, Then, PRakyat do not have time to clarify. It is the very critical time. Please think…
#71 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:42 am
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that if Anwar is voted overwhelmingly into Parliament, it would mean that he is innocent. I think we are all mature enough to understand that if Anwar wins by a landslide, then not many voters take the swearing of Saifool very seriously.
#72 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:48 am
I for one would like to know who is actually behind the “hide and seek” games being played out by Subramaniam and his family, by Dr Hamid Osman and his family, by Subramaniam’s nephews and by the lawyers mentioned in the first SD of Subramaniam.
I would like to know who is behind this blatant obstruction of justice.
#73 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:50 am
Kit, I agree with the suggestion that the DAP should postpone its Annual General Meeting until Anwar has been proclaimed victor in the PP by-election. The fewer issues for the den of thieves to exploit, the better for everyone concerned.
#74 by katdog on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 1:08 am
imranj78,
Ha ha. I think you are the one that misunderstood me. My paragraph on the “Anwar should counter by swearing” thingy was meant for the Shamshul annuar fellar who wanted Anwar to swear to prove his innocence. I was trying to hint at the irony of you telling godfather that the courts should decide ones innocence but you did not tell that to Shamshul Annuar. I guess you did not read his post.
And FYI, yes i believe the courts should be the ones to determine ones innocence.
#75 by Malaysian Mummy on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 1:27 am
Mohd Saiful Bukhari Azlan swore on the Quran before scores of press members and religious officials at the Federal Territory mosque that he was sodomised by his former boss Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim.
Saiful moves was political motivated on timely during the nomination day of Anwar caused indirectly cursing his boss with bad omen in Ghosts Month. Such dirty tactics used by Anwar’s enemies created such cruel “CURSE” using a holy Quran is very sinful This political curse wll frightened the Permatang Pauh voters to reject or avoiding the support for Anwar. The voters dont wish to be part of the “Curse” of swearing even Anwar is not guilty unless proven guilty.
Therefore as far as Islamic principle is concerned, the oath swearing should be made under the direction of syariah criminal court , not at Saiful free will at the FT mosque of his choice. The FT mosque has been tainted with shameful act of a person interest rather than a national interest which the Rakyat Muslim communities are very unhappy today.
What allegedly happened between Saiful and Anwar is not something threatening the national interest faced by the Rakyat. Instead of taking such an oath, Saiful should have sought justice in the Syariah Court. The Mufti and authorities allowed such actions taken in holy mosque are disgraceful to the entire muslim society.
Rakyat Malaysians know who is right or wrong end of the day and no need to read, listen and see a sinful swearing of oath by a childish 23 years old kid who knew nuts about politics but but he has fooled, disgraced himself in public and used by the Oppositions of Anwar.
INSYALLAH ! Allah is the eye witness everyday and no need to swear any oath to HIS ALMIGHTY.
#76 by imranj78 on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 1:34 am
katdog,
Apologies if I understood your message. To be honest I read Shamshul’s post only much later after I posted the reply to Godfather :)
Nevertheless, some people do relate with Shamshul’s point of view, rightly or wrongly, hence it cannot be totally disregarded. As for me, I’ll leave it to the courts to decide.
#77 by lucia on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 1:36 am
MAFREL will be out to monitor the election. please visit our blog for daily updates of reports from first hand experience of our members. you won’t get to read such news (report) in any MSM (or other sites).
http://mafrel.wordpress.com
#78 by wanderer on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 1:36 am
Yes YB LKS, postpone DAP AGM. Let show solidarity with PKR and PAS, “The spirit of ONENESS”
#79 by Cookie Monster on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 1:57 am
hope DSAI victory margin in PP will be the largest , breaking all history ever recorded.
#80 by limkamput on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 2:23 am
Show solidarity with PAS and PKR? I think we must seriously look at the statements made by PAS the last few days – the government of Malaysia must centre on Malay-Muslims, PAS president should be appointed PM, etc. Not so easy my friends, even if Anwar is appointed PM in due course. I don’t think the mentality and the national ethos is going to change much. I see reactionary and bigotry forces everywhere both within BN as well as in PR. It would require tenacious efforts on the part of moderate PR leadership to steer the nation toward cosmopolitanism. But do we have sufficient number of moderate leaders?
#81 by aquaimplotec on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 4:44 am
A battle ground for the elephants is never left undisturbed.
Permatang Puah may never recover from this coming battle between BN & PR! Vietnam was the battle ground between Russia & USA, see what has happened to this couuntry!!!
If BN has any ounce of human decency left in their heartless breast, let it be a walk over by PR!!!! It is only the wife giving her seat to her husband!
The real battle has not yet begun.
#82 by pulau_sibu on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 5:52 am
Penang is a state that is very special. A true democratic government with almost clean Pakatan Rakyat was established after the March election. A first real threat to the Barisan Nasional.
Penang is now moving toward to making another history by reinstating Anwar to the parliament. That is to pave way for a true democratic Malaysia.
The huge crowd gathered during the nomination day was a true surprise. From the youtube video, we felt the momentum. Malays are changing, and Malaysia is changing. I was surprised that the dropouts, those already rejected by the people, such as Samy and Koh, had to be there.
Uncle Lim is a good man. I could sense that this man has always something in his brain that is above everyone. I think he has a clear idea of what to do and how to achieve it. That is why he has been staying on to fight for the last half a century. Hopefully we can see the fruits, fruits for all, very soon.
#83 by tenaciousB on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 7:40 am
The change has to take place sooner, cause one of BN’s strategies is to deplete the savings like what they did in 2004, they spent 204 million on advertising itself, that alone for the federal territory constituents. So they may just drain the government before leaving it.
#84 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 8:03 am
The den of thieves at it again:
http://aisehman.org/?p=652
Even more blatant than before. March 8 tsunami was only a partial victory for the rakyat. We must complete what we set out to do – get rid of the den of thieves for good.
#85 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 8:33 am
“What is there to be afraid of. If you have not committed the act of sodomy, please swear in full view of the world. It will enhance your reputation. People will say ‘”See Anwar had sworn in God’s name” . The burden will be on Saiful again” Shmashul
In law there are two kinds of burden of proof. One that does not shift known as the legal burden of proof. The other is the evidential burden – which shifts like in a game of football.
Si-Fu swears by the Koran and the burden shifts to Anwar?. Which one? The legal burden of proof? This burden never shifts.
He who alleges must prove. The prosecutor alleges sodomy. He must prove it. He has the legal burden of proof. Failure to discharge this burden (the standard of which is the standard of proof beyond reasonable doubt) means the accused is not guilty.
Law of evidence 101.
#86 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 8:37 am
There are other means of going about discharging the evidential burden of proof. Anwar chooses not to do the same way. He has other ways. The fact that he declines to do Si-Fu’s way does not mean he is guilty!
Wakarimastaka?
#87 by djhampa on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 8:42 am
Shamsul Anuar says :
“The fact that Saiful swore shows that he is dead serious about his allegation. The fact that Anwar refuses to swear reflects that he understands the consequence of lying while swearing in God’s name.”
The fact that Saiful swore does not mean he was dead serious. One could also conclude that the fact he swore without collaborating facts showed a person who has no regard for the quran.
If swearing could be used to accuse someone than the entire syaria jurisprudence might as well be thrown out of the window.
The fact that some religious leaders are willing to sell their soul does not mean that they have the knowledge or the regard for the quran to offer any valuable and correct advice.
Perhaps it is time for you to wake up to the fact that not all muslims are good muslims. Even in the buku angel jesus said not all calling on his name will be saved. Narrow is the path to heaven and few will make it through.
#88 by KennyGan on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 8:45 am
“I must admit I am not a ustad or religious teacher who can comment on the act of swearing. But I look at it this way – Someone who makes a `Statutory Declaration’ like many have done is doing so because he believes he is right. Similarly, the act of swearing in God’s name, is only done by someone who is convinced that he is in the right”. – imranj78
But this is not true about swearing in God’s name. Go to the prison and ask the rapists, the murderers and robbers if they are willing to swear their innocence on their religion for freedom and I assure you 99% will happily do it. So does it prove that they are innocent?
Someone who swears an S.D. is more likely to be telling the truth. Making a false S.D. is liable to 7 years imprisonment and you will be punished in this world, not the next.
#89 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 9:00 am
Undergrad2, it is hopeless trying to impart logic to Shamshul Anuar. It’s the same as trying to argue logically with his boss Mike Tyson. The law does not apply to UMNO. The law is what UMNO says it is.
#90 by Bigjoe on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 9:16 am
You can smell the underhanded ways that BN/UMNO is going about this and the virtriol is virtually that of desperation.
1) The timing of Saiful swearing and the obvious holes in his answer even on the day of swearing.
2) UiTM students disporportionate response to a suggestion that even their hero Dr. M is saying good idea.
3) The highlighting of differences between PR component to the extent of outright rewriting of qoutes.
Let this campaign be one of measured response admist the euphoria of what is going to be a landslide. Its best to focus on Najib, KJ, IGP, AG which many Malays in the heartland already know have a tainted record in reality.
#91 by ahluck on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 9:24 am
Dr.M please don’t smell Anwars Ass! It will be very smelly!. please smell your own Ass for sodomising Malaysia for 22 years. Can you swear upon Quran that you did not sodomise Malaysia? That you wear fair to all Malaysians and that you did no corrupt practises and misuse you power? You Swear first before you ask Anwar. Just shut up and Taubat for all the wrong you did at this old age.
#92 by tiger88 on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 9:26 am
By right LKS should be PM. He has the brains to do so, but he is giving his full support to Anwar to be the PM. Such magnaminous man should be given a deputy PM at least. But in Malaysia, it is difficult to accept a non-Bumi to be at such high level. But if how Penang does it, Federal govt should not be different. Appoint other races as DPMs.
#93 by jus legitimum on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 9:32 am
Why must DSAI dance to the tune of the infamous and rotten regime for 51 years? Why should DSAI stoop so low to do what the ‘Fool’ did—to swear?
The Umno candidate only now exploits his chinese education background to win votes and beside pouring money into a few local chinese schools,they also praise the schools skyhigh.These idiots think the local chinese voters are also idiots like they all.
Have they forgotten the derogatory and racist slurs which they yelled during the recent Bar Council Forum?The PP chinese voters can never and will never forget ‘You babi china balik ke China’ swearing and cursing.They can also remember the racist policy of
closing the door of UiTM to everybody except bumi.
#94 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 9:38 am
It is strange when you want people to adjudge Anwar’s innocence or guilt based on (1) workings of a criminal justice system by charging him for consensual sodomy and at the same time for the Permatang Puah by election based on (2) Saiful’s swearing upon the Quran about being non-consensual sodomy by force and Anwar not having done so when (1) contradicts (2) in the sense that under (1) in which Saiful is star prosecution witness, it is a case of VOLUNTARY sodomy and under (2) it is a case of FORCED sodomy, such a major contradiction of which impairs Saiful’s credibility of whichever version whether based on (1) Quran or (2) the secular criminal justice system.
It is also inherently unfair to the person accused and confusing to the people doing the judging to subject a person to two entirely different and even contradictory systems of adjudgment, one based on (1) him swearing on the Quran and the other to (2) evidence of court (including forensics of DNA) and precepts of secular law (innocent until proven guilty beyond resonable doubt).
My point is that you can rely on either one but not two. If one believes in (1) then don’t proceed on (2). If one proceeds on (2) then don’t proceed on (1). It canot be the case one can proceed to incriminate a man (whether Anwar or anyone else) on both (1) and (2) depending whichever makes him look guiltier. This is subjecting a man to ‘double jeopardy’ (expression used in the loose and not legal sense).
Can’t speak for Anwar but to me it is a matter of principle and contrary of fair play and justice that I should not be subject to both (1) and (2) whichever make me look guiltier.
I would swear on a holy book if daring to do so you drop all charges. You can’t say – after I have sworn – oh we don’t believe you, we still want to proceed with the charge.
At the same time you proceed with the charge and fail to prove the charge and I am acquitted, am I supposed to be guilty then in the eyes of society since I have not sworn on the holy book that I am innocent?
#95 by cheng on on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 10:08 am
So, whenever, any person is accused of anything (got proof no proof), all must swear by their respective holy book n make Stat. Decl. In that case,almost all BN MPs, ministers, ADUNs, etc (past & present), all must swear and make Stat. Decl. ! then, This land will be also known as Malswearia. Commissioners of oaths also get good business. Unique practice and unique culture !
#96 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 10:09 am
If one believes that swearing on the holy book is testimony of the truth, then why not admit and recognise that testimony as conclusive evidence in court which if this is so the moment Anwar swears his innocence in mosque, the AG Dept should drop the charge. Oh yes I forget the Prosecutor can say Saiful also swore otherwise, that he was sodomised but he said he was sodomised by force, which is one reason why Prosecutor should drop the charge because the charge is based on consensual and not forced sodomy.
How can the State charge Anwar for consensual sodomy when its chief witness and complainant alleged otherewise that it was forced sodomy?
If the State has found no evidence of forced sodomy as alleged it should drop the charge rather than proceed in another way on its own based on consensual sodomy that the Complainant Saiful did not allege in the first place.
The decision to prosecute a person for a consensual offence based on a complainant’s allegations of a non consensual offence is arguably a wrongful exercise of prosecutorial discretion.
#97 by Bigjoe on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 10:11 am
I know this is not going to be worth much in Permatang Pauh but to Sdr. Lim readers, maybe it will make a difference. Let talk about what Permatang Pauh and what Annuar is about me, its about Eastern Europe.
I first when to Eastern Europe in the early 1990s. I went to countries like Romania, Czechoslovakia, Eastern Germany, Latvia, Poland and of course Russia. Those countries looked a mess then and Malaysia looked like heavan sent in comparison. Today, if you go and look again, those countries have surpassed us. Even war torn Bosnia-Hersogovenia, Serbia and Croatia looks more promising than us.
Anwar like to talk about Korea, Taiwan, HK and Singapore compared to us. That is old story. How is it that even is even a shorter time than the usual countries we talk about, another group of once more backward countries with less resources then us have risen and surpassed us over the last 10 years while our leaders are giving excuses. Does it take Zimbabwe to surpass us before we say we are not in good shape?
#98 by cheng on on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 10:15 am
Yes, well said Jeffrey ! Consensual or Non-consensual?? Please don’t create another mockery for Msia !
#99 by HJ Angus on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 10:39 am
I agree with Jeffrey’s succinct points.
It seems the authorities are bent on getting Anwar by any means possible.
http://malaysiawatch4.blogspot.com/2008/08/sodomy-so-much-effort-to-smear-anwar.html
#100 by pulau_sibu on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 10:39 am
Bigjoe, I view Eastern Europe as different from us. These countries used to be very good, but was destroyed by the communism. Among those the big brother Soviet Union was a big bully. And even now, Russia wants to continue doing it. As the communism collapsed, these countries are moving back to their normal situation. By becoming part of EU, some of the Eastern European countries got a lot of financial and economical helps. Investment went into these countries, just like in China and the rising Vietnam in Asia. I think if investment will pour in to Malaysia, it will be a great improvement for us. In fact, our communism (NEP) has discouraged many investors from coming in. Our countries might have a lot of money, but several percentages of all projects went to some body. And at the end, the people remained poor.
#101 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 10:41 am
They won’t drop the charges against Anwar, certainly not before Aug 26th. It would clearly mean the prosecutorial system is broken and totally incompetent.
#102 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 10:45 am
For 30 years, UMNO has consistently applied the “heads I win, tails you lose” philosophy. They won’t change now.
#103 by max2811 on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 11:26 am
May Lee Chong Wei win tonight. May DIGI send the TV2(Olympics)commentators home. Waste of money. Too much talking. Empty talk too. May Mr Anwar win.
#104 by badak on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 11:40 am
Give me RM 100 MILLLION and a RM 800.OOOO a month job.I will also swear that DSAI SODOMIZED me.I won,t be as cheap as SAIFUL RM 1 million and Datukship in 3 years time.
Najib and Rosmah must also swear in the mosque that they are not involve in the ALTANTUYA MURDER.If not how to believe lahhh.
#105 by riversandlakes on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 11:52 am
DSAI ’08!
#106 by AhPek on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:52 pm
Jeffrey, you can be sure that the ordinary voters in PP will not be able to see the implications and the inherent contributions you have presented between (1)
using the criminal justice system to charge Anwar of consensual sodomy and (2)
Saiful’s swearing on the Koran on non-consensual sodomy done on him by Anwar,giving confidence for these UMNOPUTRAS to capitalise on.Perhaps these may be good points for PR to use to show that they are desparately trying to fabricate lies about Anwar so as to discredit him.They do that only for the sole reason of preventing Anwar taking over the Federal Government and if he succeeds a lot of them could find themselves in jail.
#107 by AhPek on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:58 pm
Like what badak says Najib and Rosmah should also arrange (perhaps to be televised world wide) to swear before the Holy Koran that they are not involved in the murder of Altantuya. That will prove without a shadow of doubt that they are innocent.What do you think,Najib and Rosmah, it is worth taking it up and it will certainly save you people the trouble trying to convince the public that you people have nothing to do with Altantuya and in fact you do not even know Altantuya.
#108 by MPSPK on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 1:34 pm
Rimas aku la dengan shamsul annuar tuh… takde kejer lain ke engko???? baper byk agaknya UMNO/BN bayau kau agaknya…. kalo nak influence kami ni nak nyokong UMNO… x payahlah gamaknyer… buang masa buang tenaga….. engko ni nulis nampak cam org pandai2… tapi tak cukup pandai sama lah macam org2 umno… sedih… analisis nko pasal politik tak cukup ampuh…. tu sebab org melayu tak maju2.. sebab ada org macam nko dengan vc uitm….
#109 by kanthanboy on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 1:56 pm
Swear over the holy book to prove innocence as suggested by TDM?
This is a 3rd world mentality. You will never hear such stupid suggestion from political leaders of advanced countries like those of the G8.
#110 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 3:07 pm
Someone asked TDM to swear on the Koran that he did not engineer the sodomy case against Anwar in the 90s. His moderator refused to publish the comment on TDM’s blog.
Such is the hypocrisy of the old thief.
#111 by imranj78 on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 3:22 pm
`Someone who swears an S.D. is more likely to be telling the truth. Making a false S.D. is liable to 7 years imprisonment and you will be punished in this world, not the next.’
KennyGan
The likelihood of telling the truth whether it through a SD or swearing depends on the person who is actually undertaking it. For Muslims, punishment in the hereafter (as subscribed to a person who wrongfully swears) is very much more painful/serious then any punishment a person can be given in this world. Therefore, a Muslim should technically be more scared of swearing rather then making a SD. Hence I disagree that a SD is more likely to be true vis-a-vis swearing.
Before you jump on me, I am not an advocate of swearing. That is a person’s right and if Saiful has done it, then that is between him and his maker. Whether his action is right or wrong is up for debate but his action has sent ripples throughout the nation.
#112 by thepriest on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 3:34 pm
Be careful of the Half chinese NO how good he is, He is still in the camp of dens of thieves, He might steal not only from malays but from chinese too ……..
Lets pray that DSAI will not only win the by election in PP BUT will win with BIGGER majority.
#113 by AhPek on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 5:11 pm
imranj78,
I can see your arguments.No wonder the prospect of having 72 virgins waiting is enough motivation to hijack planes to ram into WTO building!
#114 by thepriest on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 5:54 pm
The Permatang Pauh by-election: ‘sodomite’ versus brother to a ‘swindler’ by RPK what a crook too. Looks like a clean man like our pm otten inside.. yak..
#115 by limkamput on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 6:41 pm
imranj78,
Use your logic a bit. I person who is not fearful of committing crimes in this world will NOT be fearful of life thereafter. If swearing works, there is no need for criminal justice system, no need for science of evidence, and no need for detective work.
When mamathir was PM, some thought he was so clever. He is now so anxious that DSAI could actually become PM. This mamak is no more than a third world tribal primitive leader totally devoid of any grey matter. He is a stupid person and Malaysia was unfortunate to have him as PM for more than 20 years.
#116 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 6:48 pm
“Whether his action is right or wrong is up for debate but his action has sent ripples throughout the nation.”
The only ripples it has sent to the voters of PP is that many are rolling about on the floor laughing until their sides have split.
#117 by Malar on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 9:10 pm
I wish Anuar all the best. I was so surprised with the announcement of Datuk Arif Shah’s command of Mandarin. It is good to know that at least there is one Umno man with good command of chinese. Why is UMNO making headlines with his command of Mandarin now. When there was so much of uproar about non-bumis entry to Uitm, what is so special now that they are making headlines of this. Fishing for chinese voters right? If he can speak Mandarin well, can that be a criteria for him to allow chinese in Uitm? If Mandarin was the most important criteria in the election of Permatang Pauh, then might as well put an MCA or a Gerakan Chinese candidate there? Umno wants the chinese and indians votes but they should not ask anything more in this country. They right is only to vote for BN but to reject their rights is UMNO. What a philosophy to be practised by BN in this country.
#118 by ekuarater on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 10:34 pm
What’s the point of a Mandarin speaking Malay… are we interested to elect an MP just to confirm a Malay FREAK is running for Parliament?. There are also so many Malay speaking Non-Bumi Malaysians… but can they be eligible for 10% UiTM? Speak Mandarin, Russian English all languages in the world.. works in other country but not in Bolehland.
#119 by imranj78 on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 11:58 pm
AhPek,
WTO? You are way off the topic my dear AhPek. I shall not even respond to such ludricous comments.
limkamput,
I agree with your logic. But by the same logic you are prescribing, a person who is law abiding, would also be scared to make a false swear. Am I right? Hey man, I am not saying swearing is the way to go. Nothing should circumvent our justice system.
#120 by Malar on Monday, 18 August 2008 - 12:04 am
I just saw the talk show on the dispute of non-bumi joining UITM on Channel 502. The chinese and indians should have their conscious clear if they had voted for opposition. You should have seen how one of the politician who was an ex-uitm spoke and he even used the word ‘orang asing’ referring the non-malays. He was addressing the bumiputras as ‘pribumis’ and for a moment I thought he was addressing himself as orang asli. The MIC, MCA, Gerakan and PPP, shame on you. In the show all the way he mentioned that it was the malays who fought for independence and the malays had welcomed the orang asing into their homes but we are encroaching their homes now. Lucky, there was one caller by the name of Quah who made a call and made his question clear. The politician claimed that the pribumis are still behind the other races so there is no way they can allow non-bumis into uitm but the only thing that is not clear is – why even after 50 years of merdeka the malays are still behind. The malay rights have been there all these 50 years and the government has pampered them till now but the other races have managed to make their way without any special privileges. So where is the problem or with whom is the problem?
#121 by undergrad2 on Monday, 18 August 2008 - 12:53 am
If the problems of the world could be solved with leaders of nations swearing on their holy books, then we should just go ahead. Fine with me!
#122 by NewDAP on Monday, 18 August 2008 - 9:11 am
Malar,
The government has to preserve the malay rights as most non-malays are smarter, better and more hard working than most malays. Therefore our government has to be fair to them by giving them special privileges and protection.
#123 by ahkok1982 on Monday, 18 August 2008 - 10:40 am
on the sodomy case, since the gov is changing the charge to one of “sex against the order of nature” and it was consensual, then why is Saiful also not charged? isn’t letting someone else poke your arse also considered as “sex against the order of nature”? Why only charge DSAI and not Saiful?
Once again, the gov is protecting Saiful because he just a tool to help BN frame DSAI. If they were to also charge him, lets see if Saiful will turn the tables and confess that it was all a sandiwara with BN as the director.
#124 by cheng on on Monday, 18 August 2008 - 11:36 am
Do the Thai Malay, Spore Malay, Indonesia Malay, Cambodia Malay, S.Africa Malay, Brunei Malay, etc, need special privileges and protection too? If Yes, Can Msia teach them how to do it?
#125 by Emily Pratt on Monday, 18 August 2008 - 12:20 pm
The end result should be Anwar being elected as MP of Permatang Pauh (P44), who gives a darn whether Anwar wins by a one vote majority or 20,000 majority. Anyway, Parliament.. here he comes.
Abdullah Nincompoop… the rakyat is telling you’re fired.
EP
#126 by Toyol on Monday, 18 August 2008 - 1:53 pm
Permatang Pauh voters…you have the power now in your hands whether you want to live with a corrupt and bankrupt government or vote for change. Yes, we start all over again with Pakatan but do you still want to continue with the present regime? Pakatan is for the people, by the people. You think BN can lay claim to that? With their closets full of rotting carcases, your vote for BN is a vote for doom for your children and your children’s children.
#127 by PSM on Monday, 18 August 2008 - 3:35 pm
Just wondering? Can the State Government declare a holiday so that the Voters can vote without worring about their work commitments?
It’s so clear that the EC & BN Government together!
#128 by Emily Pratt on Monday, 18 August 2008 - 4:37 pm
Actually IIRC, employers cannot obstruct eligible from voting. I think declaring State Public Holiday is not necessary, from a larger picture, PP is still after all, just a by-election.
The voting process only takes less than half an hour… if you skip lunch or take an hour off from your employer, I think it is no problem.
EP
#129 by Emily Pratt on Monday, 18 August 2008 - 4:39 pm
I have to add… 50,000 ++ voters to determine the direction or well being of 27Million inhabitants of this country… PP voters are truly the king-make this time.
EP
#130 by Vidya Young on Monday, 18 August 2008 - 10:19 pm
Dear friends, after S**fool’s ‘comic’ with the Quran, we cannot ask every Tom, Dick and Harry to swear on the Quran to prove their innocence. There are some who will be prepared to swear on the Holy Book (any holy book) and stake their life on it without fear of being struck dead by God. And of course there are others, the unscrupulous, deceitful and immoral ones who will swear readily, only because they are unprincipled, compulsive liars and have never spoken a truth in their life. They will swear on a stack of Quran if you want because lying comes easy to them.
And we all know in which category TDM, Bodohwi, Najis and their cronies fall into. Ask yourselves why have these s*n-o*-a-bi*ch not performed the Haj? Especially TDM, who is what 80+ now? Because they do not have the fear of God in them. They know, it is in Mecca they will face their Maker.
#131 by shamshul anuar on Wednesday, 20 August 2008 - 11:40 pm
DEar Vidya,
For your info, Dr Mahathir performed haj way back in 1970s. I knew as I saw his picture then. Around year 2000, He went for pilgrimage again.
My advice to you is that do not be so jugdemental . WE mere mortals, do not know what transpited between Anwar and Saiful. With due respect to you, Muslims are waiting for Anwar to swear. What is he afraid of?
I heard the accusation 10 years ago from Mohd Sabu, current Vice President of PAS. He condemned Anwar and challenged Dr Mahathir to sack Anwar. It was published in Harakah itself. But again, now they are friends.
We give Anwar benefit of the doubt. Now, why not do what Muslims worldwide considered the act of ultimate truth. Swear in God’s name and like Saiful, ask divine punishment should he lie.
How about that?