Sultanate of Sulu & North Borneo/Sabah issuing birth certificates for children born in Sabah


In Parliament yesterday, I gave the Deputy Home Minister, Datuk Chor Chee Heung a copy of a birth certificate issued by the Sultanate of Sulu & North Borneo/Sabah for children born in Sabah, challenging Malaysian sovereignty in Sabah, as he said he was unaware of the existence of such birth certificates.

DAP MP for Kota Kinabalu Hiew King Cheu had earlier given me a copy of the birth certificate issued by the Sultan of Sulu & North Borneo/Sabah for his “subjects” in Sabah, raising disturbing questions about the future of Sabah – especially with the unchecked influx of illegal immigrants in the past four decades with many native Sabahans feeling that they have become foreigners in their own homeland!

According to one estimate, the number of illegally-legalised illegal immigrants through one Project I/C after another in the past four decades have already exceeded the number of genuine Sabahans.

I had asked the Deputy Home Minister to cause a full investigation into the issue of birth certificates by the Sultanate of Sulu & North Borneo/Sabah for children born in Sabah and to make a ministerial statement in Parliament, hopefully before the adjournment of the present meeting on July 17.

This morning, Hiew made available copies of the birth certificate issued by the Sultanate of Sulu & North Borneo/Sabah for those born in Sabah to the parliamentary reporters at a media conference.

Sultante Sulu Certificate of Birth

Sultanate Sulu Certificate of Birth

  1. #1 by Mr Smith on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 11:34 am

    If the Home Ministry is unaware of such birth certificates which challenges our sovereignty, than something is very wrong, seriously wrong with out country’s Intelligence.
    But then who cares, when these illegals are there to vote for BN and keep them in power. Political interests supersedes national interests, don’t they.

  2. #2 by yhsiew on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 11:34 am

    I think federal government itself is to blame. Despite Sabah being a legitimate state of Malaysia, federal government’s long years of neglect and indifference towards the state have caused such problem to emerge.

  3. #3 by i_love_malaysia on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 11:45 am

    It is not just the federal govt fault, but also the Sabah govt for the past and present. They just scratch each other backs and ignore all the major issues of the state and country.
    Bottomline is that they enrich themselves and stay in power, once they are no longer in power, they just migrate to other countries which they have mansions all over the places on this planet earth!!! Why want to take care of Malaysia or Sabah in this case with lots of problems to solve, it is easier to make themselves a multi-millionaire than to make each citizen a ringgit richer which is 26 million ringgits!!!

  4. #4 by k1980 on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 11:47 am

    Some village idiots calling themselves the Maharaja of Majapahit, the Sultan of Pattani, the Raja of Langkasuka and the like will soon be claiming the right to rule this country

  5. #5 by i_love_malaysia on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 11:51 am

    There is no issue on the birth certificate issued by the Sultanate of Sulu & North Borneo/Sabah as it is not recognised as a legal paper. That’s why the govt is not taking a serious look into this and not even worth mentioning in the intelligence report if there’s any!!!

  6. #6 by i_love_malaysia on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 11:55 am

    K1980,

    They can make such claims and the govt didnt use ISA or any laws to stop them from doing that because they are of the same kind!!! Try to do that if you are not of the same kind, you will be arrested under ISA and all the other laws of the land!!!

  7. #7 by ShiokGuy on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 12:32 pm

    Dear Reader,

    East Malaysia has been sucked dry by the West Malaysia here..
    http://shiokguy.blogspot.com/2008/06/more-milk-please.html

    Now this sulu sultan is raping and populated the state of Sabah with
    Legalized Illegal?

    Shiok Guy

  8. #8 by ShiokGuy on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 12:37 pm

    They the BN after UMNO enter the political arena in Sabah, the Sabah political parties loss all their control. Everything are “Submissive” to the Bog Brother UMNO. Who is responsible to bring UMNO into Sabah?
    He or she should rectify this immediately.

    Basically in my opinion, BN need this Legalized Illegal to survive politically. PERIOD! I blog about it on June 26

    http://shiokguy.blogspot.com/2008/06/op-to-flush-out-sabah-illegal.html

    So YB.. What is PR going to do about it? Since the cross over or jump ship is kind of crossed out…..

    Shiok Guy

  9. #9 by helpless on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 12:39 pm

    Is anyone investigate the foreigner that caught trying to vote?

    These are all corruption. All bloody bastard Minister.

    Being helpless Malaysian. Just wonder we could gain a normal civil right. When Malaysia could champion in world politic fairness ?

    When can Malaysia by clean from corruption?

  10. #10 by pulau_sibu on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 12:52 pm

    Can I become a Citizen of the Sultanate of Sulu?

    I mentioned before that the earlier settlements, but not the earliest, are trying to claim ownership of the land and displacing new comers or minorities. The natives in America, Malaya, Sabah/Sarawak, Taiwan, Australia…. are all facing this disaster.

    The Arabs and people from the subcontinent came to Malaya and Borneo, and claimed that they are the bumiputra. They displaced the Orang Asli and Iban/Dayak. The new immigrants from China, India, and other places are considered as foreigners.

    The Chinese from China came to Taiwan and displaced the natives. Now they claim that they are the Taiwanese. They rejected and discriminates new immigrants from China and other part of south-east Asia.

    For the America and Australia, we all know how they treated the aborignal people. New immigrants are not that welcomed in these land of the aborignes.

    Now coming to all these, should the Chinese in Malaysia, who was considered foreigners and being discriminated by the earlier (not the earliest) settlers, discriminating the new comers? Remember we are fighting for our rights, and yet we don’t give any rights to the new comers? Is that the kind of justice we want to see?

  11. #11 by amz1608 on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 12:54 pm

    Clearly looks like a made up document….but i get the message though…

  12. #12 by Jeffrey on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 2:35 pm

    The Sultan of Sulu & North Borneo/Sabah has never dropped his claims that:

    · Sulu/Sabah belongs to him;

    · his forefathers merely leased Sabah in 1878 to Baron Von Overbeck/Alfred Dent for so long as they or their successors chose or desire to use them but a lease in relation to a territory is not cession (voluntary give away)

    · the giving of a lease was then subject to the condition that the territory should not be transferred to another nation or company of another nationality without the Sultan’s consent;

    · the British illegally transferred Sabah to Malaysia.

    Was the 1878 agreement between Sultan and Baron Von Overbeck/Alfred Dent a lease or a cession? If it were a really a lease, then its users Overbeck/Alfred Dent could give more than what they had (ie they could not give a cession of Sabah) to the British government for the British in turn to give her to Malaysia.

    It is also correct that for Malaysian authorities to permit the Sultan to issue birth certificates is to indirectly recognise the Sultan’s challenge of Malaysian sovereignty in Sabah even now.

    Part of the reasons the International Court of Justice gave Pedra Branca to Singapore is that Malaysian authorities have acquiesced with and done nothing about Singapore’s building of the heliport, placing military installation and additional naval navigation equipment on Pedra Branca inconsistent with Malaysia’s sovereignty claims which Malaysian authorities have failed to assert.

    It is a point of international law that in dispute over territory, the party who asserts sovereignty over the indolent one that does not will win favourable assessment.

    One of these days the Sultan (backed perhaps by Philippines) will try to bring the dispute before ICJ and one of the points raised would be issuance by the sultanate of birth certificates in challenge of Malaysia’s claims to sovereignty over Sabah abou which malaysiam authorities have failed to take any action.

    I can’t imagine what happens if the Sultan eventually accumulates more points based on international law than the BN Govt. if the mater is brought to ICJ. :)

  13. #13 by Jeffrey on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 2:37 pm

    Correction : “its users Overbeck/Alfred Dent could NOT give more than what they had”

  14. #14 by Jeffrey on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 2:51 pm

    In Pedra Branca’s case one of the main points of international law raised by Singapore why Sultan of Johore had religuished right sovereignty over the island was that traditional Malay sovereignty was exercised through the allegiance of the people to the ruler, rather than the demarcation of physical territory. That the islands were uninhabited thus gave little certainty over the Sultanate’s exercise of control over them….That Singapore maintained the lighthouse, established a heliport, placing military installation and additional naval navigation equipment was in Singapore’s favour.

    Now Sultan of Sulu & North Borneo/Sabah is allowed to carry on his “reign” with his court of Royal Datus and Sharifs (said to be decendants of the Prophet) in a manner not recognised by our Federal Constitution. Besides those whom he issued birth certificates what happens if large sections of Sabah populace disenchanted and disaffected with Peninsula government switch and pledge their allegiance to Sultan of Sulu & North Borneo/Sabah instead who has been allowed by the Federal government to carry on with his rein until now?

  15. #15 by oknyua on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 3:02 pm

    On the other hand, the Sultan of Sulu’s claim would be hollow without the Project IC. Project IC (aka Project UMNO) legitimise the occupation of Sabah by people of the Sulu/Philippine/Indon Archipelago. It had been endorsed by UMNO for over 10 years and even this day, with repeated call for solutions to this issue, UMNO gave guarded and lukewarm response.

    How can UMNO settle something that they orchestrated?

    There are 3.3 million “Sabahans.” 1990 census, the figure was 0.8 millions. There is no way the population can be that fast, notwithstanding the 7 child per couple policy of Tun Dr.

    KL’s intention of solving Project IC is a show of hypocrisy of the highest and crudest form. Had the Sabah MPs kept quiet about the illegal, I suppose they would have declared Lim Kit Siang (MP Ipoh) to be lying. I suppose Bung Mokhtar himself would have denied the presence if illegal in Kinabatangan. And had the above copy of the Birth Certificate failed to be produced, our PM himself would declare Hiew King Cheu (K. kinabalu)’s claim as slander. The denial from KL is the most utilised escape clause in this administration.

    So what does this mean to our fellow Sabahans? Take your fate in your hands. Throw away UMNO.

  16. #16 by badak on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 3:55 pm

    One certificate RM700,WAHHH saya sudah jadi jutawan.Police spot check on certificate RM50 WAAHHH saya sudah kaya.Ever since UMNO got into Sabah.THE TRUTH BE TOLD WHAT HAS THE UMNO LEDBN GOVERMENT DO FOR THE STATE.
    Logging rights given only to BN CRONIES.Don,t even ask about oil royalties.Sabah on paper is the riches state in MALAYSIA with all its TIMBER and OIL.But just take a look at its infra.Schools Without piped water and electricity.Normal excuse is no excess,To rob the state of its timber and oil.have excess.
    Go to any part of Sabah you will see the influx of Indons and phillipinoes.

  17. #17 by AT57 on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 4:05 pm

    Jeffrey,

    Correct me if i am wrong. In Pedra Branca’s case, it was a dispute over an island/territory that has never been officially or legally declared to belong to any country. Likewise i believe most of the cases in ICJ are disputes over territories that do not formally belong to any country.

    Whereas for Sabah, it has officially been part of Malaysia since 1963, sanctioned by the United Nations. So can any party bring a case to ICJ, claiming ownership over a territory that has long been recognised legally by UN as belonging to another country..i doubt so…

    Again, correct me if i’m wrong…I’m not 100% sure on this.

  18. #18 by yog7948 on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 4:12 pm

    The people of kinabatangan must be proud of their HERO MP.. and also the Illegal immigrants PR of his constitution.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxy7ji65K0o

  19. #19 by yog7948 on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 4:16 pm

    The sabahans faith was sealed by a Great man named DATU Mustapha.. and those other leaders can’t voice out much since having some bad smelling skeleton in their closet. The key? is with UMNO.

  20. #20 by yog7948 on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 4:20 pm

    Sabahan really need some new faces to lead them.. not the same old politicians they are having now. Too much stain.

    Fresh leaders that yet to be corrupted can join hand and fight against the “Malaya” political imperials and their minions in sabah.

  21. #21 by citizenwatch on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 4:48 pm

    “According to one estimate, the number of illegally-legalised illegal immigrants through one Project I/C after another in the past four decades have already exceeded the number of genuine Sabahans.”

    *********************************************
    CRISIS IN THE MAKING

    There are calls from across the border to take Sabah case to ICJ and if there were to be a referendum to get Sabah out of Malaysia, the outcome is expected and will not be in Malaysia’s favour as the immigrants outnumber genuine Sabahans. Our govt have been lethargic and never proactive in the past and present.

  22. #22 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 4:52 pm

    Dear YB Lim,

    I certainly deplore the issue of Birth Certificate by whoever the Sultan of Sulu , but maybe my lack of the Sultanate language has hinder my full comprehension of the certificate itself. Anyone care to explain the meaning of the following :-

    OCCUPATION as : mag-uuma for the father and tunggu bay for the mother.
    GENDER of the boy : usog.

    Place of marriage of the parents : Sabah (North Borneo ).
    Citizenship of parents : Tausag ( one is stamped/ the other handwritten )!!!

    And if based on the “certificate” , the Malaysian government issues a MYKAD for 12 years old alpa, than i be real awed.

    In view of our current experience of SD 1 and SD 2, i beg that YB will kindly verify the authenticity of such certificate . To digress,
    that Bala-san has been found safely in another Asean Country as reported in the media. Bala-san, must be pretty rich and well prepared that his wife and children has all avail an International passportS , travellers cheques and platinum credit card. I think we still cannot carry out of the country more than RM5000.00 cash undeclared. BTW, hope the SPCA have a good heart to tend to the two dogs left in the cage.

    thank you.

    thank you.

  23. #23 by Jeffrey on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 4:56 pm

    AT57,

    Disputed territories may be neglected by contending parties up to the point of dispute but they are (mostly and as far as I know) not exactly territories on which no party or country would stake a claim in terms of historical record, treaties and operation of international law….

    Take case of Pedra Branca. S’pore staked a claim. It was based on Sultan of Johor ceding Singapore to the British East India Company in 1824, which supposedly included Pedra Branca. When Singapore built a lighthouse on Pedra Branca, the island was referred to as a “dependency of Singapore”. Singapore had on two occasions stated its entitlement to claim the sea around the islands as its territorial waters – in 1952 prior to independence in 1965 by the Chief Surveyor, and after independence in 1974 by the Marine Department of Singapore. Reclaimation works were considered to expand the islands in the early 1970s, with public tenders called by 1978.

    Malaysia on the other hand staked our claim in 1979 when the country published new official maps, which included the island of Pedra Branca in its territory. The Malaysian state of Johor asserted that when Johor Sultanate ceded Singapore to the British in 1824, the island was not part of the secession and that the Sultan of Johor only allowed the British to construct a lighthouse on the island in 1844. This was supposedly confirmed by a letter dated November 25 1844 from the Sultan and the Temenggung of Johor to the British which gave the British a permission to build a lighthouse on an island…

    As can be seen when disputes arise much is fallen back on historical documents to back up claims. So it will be the case of Sultan of Sulu & North Borneo/Sabah in relation to Sabah.

    I am taken back by comments here by apparent link between Sultan of Sulu’s claim and Federal govt’s Project IC. Is Project IC facilitated by Sultan of Sulu? I am not clear on this. I hope not (for federal govt’s sake) because otherwise much as the government need to react and counter the Sultan of Sulu’s competing claim for sovereignty, it cannot do so.

  24. #24 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 5:02 pm

    Dear YB Lim,

    It would be interesting if YB KC Hiew, can obtain the marriage certificate of the parents , as it is stated that they are married in Sabah ( North Borneo ) . OR, the question is, do they have a marriage certificate and is it issued by the sulu sultanate ?

    thank you Yb.

  25. #25 by edwin013 on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 5:03 pm

    After reading all the above, I happen to search on a website regarding the claim by the sultan of Sulu North Borneo/Sabah. I append here below the extract.

    ROYAL HASHEMITE SULTANATE OF SULU
    ROYAL HASHEMITE SULTANATE OF SABAH
    (Sultanate of Sulu & North Borneo/ Sabah

    “FREE AND INDEPENDENT SABAH

    Our dearly beloved good people of Sabah and descendants of great and brave Tausug warriors living in Sabah and to the members of the Sabah Pro-Independence Movement who made representations and met our Royal Cabinet Ministers earlier on!

    Assalamu Alaikum!

    This is a special message of greetings and best wishes to the good people of Sabah and to our Beloved Tausug descendants who are sons and daughters of valiant, loyal and courageous Tausug warriors known throughout history as defenders of the Sultanate of Sulu & Sabah, the “Unconquered Kingdom”, who never yielded and never surrendered to the invasion and conquest of Spain.

    Sabah and Palawan were gifts by the Sultan of Brunei to the Sultan of Sulu in 1658 when the Sultan of Sulu gave military assistance to quell the rebellion on the island of Borneo by sending Panglima Illijji as commander of the Tausug expeditionary force numbering over 2,500 battle-tested troops against the Spaniards.

    Panglima Illijji (the great ancestor of Datu Prof. Dr. Hadji Nur P. Misuari) and other Tausug warriors from Tapul and Parang, Sulu performed his duties brilliantly that made Sabah and Palawan annexed to the Sulu crown and properties of the Sultanate of Sulu to this day.

    In 1878, the royal father of the grandfather of HM Sultan Muhammad Fuad Abdulla Kiram I, HM Sultan Jamalul Ahlam Kiram, rented Sabah to a British company with the provisions that it could not be transferred to any person, company or nation without the consent of the Sultan of Sulu.

    The British took over Malaya and Sabah and continued to pay the rent for Sabah to the Sultan of Sulu. The British left Malaya and Sabah in 1962 but instead of returning the Sabah property to the Sultan of Sulu, it was illegally transferred to Malaysia without the consent of the Sultan of Sulu.

    IN 1963, MALAYSIA ILLEGALLY OCCUPIED SABAH TO THIS DAY. It was said that a referendum was held for the people of Sabah to join Malaysia but this referendum was unfair and unlawful because Malaysia did not inform and did not give any opportunity to the owners of Sabah namely the Sultan of Sulu and the Sultanate of Sulu to present their side as landowners of Sabah before and during the said referendum.

    Therefore, this referendum being unilateral and one-sided was unlawful and null and void ab initio and had no effect on the land ownership of the Sultan of Sulu and the Sultanate of Sulu over Sabah. Sabah is still the property of the Sultan and the Sultanate of Sulu to this day.

    His Majesty Sultan Muhammad Fuad Abdulla Kiram I, The Sultan of Sulu & The Sultan of Sabah, Head of the Sultanate and Head of Islam in the Sultanate of Sulu & Sabah, along with the Royal Family and the Royal Cabinet, support A FREE AND INDEPENDENT SABAH under a Parliamentary Monarchy whereby Members of Parliament are elected by the people of Sabah provided, howsoever, that a free and independent Sabah will be under the reign of His Majesty Sultan Muhammad Fuad Abdulla Kiram I and his successors according to law of succession as King of Sabah.

    In this proposal, the King of Sabah will reign and the Sabah Parliament will rule and administer services beneficial to all the people of Sabah.

    This proposal will finally resolve the age-old recovery problem of Sabah because the Sultan of Sulu & The Sultan of Sabah as lawful owner has agreed with this compromise solution that will be a win-win position to everyone concerned.

    This also means that the resources of Sabah and its gross domestic product, as well as the nearly 1 million barrels of oil pumped per day in Sabah, amounting to USD100 Billion per year, will be utilized for social and economic developments of the beloved people of Sabah. As per energy report, Sabah contains over 70% of oil reserves of Malaysia today but with this reality, Malaysia (a Muslim nation), dispossessed their Muslim brothers and sisters of their Sabah property without just compensation. This act of Malaysia is Un-Islamic and against the law of Allah and must be rejected by good peoples and the international community of nations.

    It is, however, necessary that Sabah assists in the much needed social and economic developments of their underprivileged Muslim brothers and sisters in the Sultanate of Sulu and of Mindanao.

    This compromise solution is agreed to by His Majesty Sultan Muhammad Fuad Abdulla Kiram I to resolve the Sabah recovery issue by peaceful means.

    Eventually, once this proposal is well-received and welcomed by the good poeple of Sabah, they will then become the masters of their own destiny and the masters of their resources in Sabah worth over USD100 Billion per year, with said resources now siphoned off to Kuala Lumpur.

    We pray the good people of Sabah will act on this once in a lifetime opportunity to resolve the Sabah recovery issue by peaceful means.”

    What is happening?

  26. #26 by badak on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 5:16 pm

    CID DIRECTOR ,Said yesterday on the 8 PM news,Bala and family might be hiding overseas.Don,t the CID DIRECTOR check his facts before he open his mouth.
    A check with Emigration will show if Bala and family is still in the country or not.
    But if Bala and family had left the country without the knowledge of the Police and emigrationt..Then it only shows that powerful hands are behind his disappearance.

  27. #27 by boh-liao on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 5:26 pm

    Looks like all these have been happening since MM’s rule.

  28. #28 by ckchung on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 5:29 pm

    Federal government created the IC project just to fullfil their political mean, but they don’t know that the 2nd generation of these people now ‘working’ in West Malaysia. I don’t in what industries they work but certainly will benefit the government because West Malaysia is more developed.

  29. #29 by Samuel Goh Kim Eng on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 5:46 pm

    The ‘birth certificate’ looks like a DIY job
    With no other date than the baby’s first sob
    Not sure if it’s a piece of paper meant to fob
    Or an attempt to make a claim with a long lob

    (C) Samuel Goh Kim Eng – 090708
    http://MotivationInMotion.blogspot.com
    Wed. 9th July 2008.

  30. #30 by shortie kiasu on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 5:54 pm

    Does such birth certificate has any legal standing in Sabah state or for that matter in Malaysia?

    It is quite sure what the answer is, and Chor Chee Heung should be able to give an affirmative answer right away. If he does not how to answer, then it is not surprising, knowing his calibre in the past.

  31. #31 by KJAN on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 6:19 pm

    Pity the Sabahans, they are cursed with opportunist and incompetent tryant leaders, these tryant leaders will continue to reap and rape Sabah no matter who is the ruling nation – Malaysia or Sulu. Sabahans, destroy these tryant leaders before Sabah become the land under the water!

  32. #32 by kun9999 on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 6:21 pm

    According to wiki sabah lease by Sultan Sulu to Baron Von Overbeck and there is a written agreement on this lease which prohibits the transfer of Sabah to any nation, company or individual without the consent of Sultan Sulu.

    Until today, Malaysia govt refuse to resolve this case with Philippines in ICJ. Malaysia should return Sabah to it’s rightful owner.

  33. #33 by grace on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 6:43 pm

    Chor was just following the example of Pak Lah – sleepy head and do not know what is happening.
    This type of cabinet is fir to be third world standard

  34. #34 by Godfather on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 6:51 pm

    You can have sovereignty over physical things like land, but you can never have absolute sovereignty over people. And if there are going to be more of “them” than “us”, then it becomes a matter of time where the majority will exercise their one-man one-vote rule to decide the destiny of the state.

  35. #35 by humanly on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 9:02 pm

    Is the Sabah state govt paying lease to the Philippines to this day? I believe the Penang govt still doing to Sultan of Kedah.

  36. #36 by cemerlang on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 9:43 pm

    Funny. Sabah is still stuck in time somewhere between the 15 th century until the later part of the 20 th century. So how can Sabahans or Malaysians truely believe that the government is deporting illegal immigrants back home as claimed by SAPP when it decided to abort the motion of no confidence in P.M. ? The case of Altantuya threatens a lot of people.

  37. #37 by yog7948 on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 10:30 pm

    IN 1963, MALAYSIA ILLEGALLY OCCUPIED SABAH TO THIS DAY. It was said that a referendum was held for the people of Sabah to join Malaysia but this referendum was unfair and unlawful because Malaysia did not inform and did not give any opportunity to the owners of Sabah namely the Sultan of Sulu and the Sultanate of Sulu to present their side as landowners of Sabah before and during the said referendum

    Try do the referendum again now, i bet sabah will be returned to Sulu Sultanate since their citizen has occupied sabah in vast. Thanks to Datu mustapha for his effort to make sabah a muslim majority state. Then pass the gravy train (unwillingly) to Umno.

    These illegal immigrants even have MP’s, even ministers in the present BN government of their descendants. Guess Who?

    A friend’s father from sabah told me about the offers he got from someone those days. He just need to bring few hundred people with him from Philippines and as rewards few ekar of land, Ketua kampung post and IC.

  38. #38 by shamshul anuar on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 10:44 pm

    Dear Yog7948,

    With regards to office of Sultanate of Sulu issuing ICs, Malaysia must act by sending a protest to Manila. In a strong word, Wisma Putra must inform Manila that such an act will definately affect bilateral ties.

    Sabah is part of Malaysia. No if no but. It is recognised by the world as a territory within Malaysia. Philipines, though maintaining diplomatic ties with Malaysia has yet to renounce the claim over Sabah.

    As for “time bomb” with regard to filipinos in Sabah, I hope that PM and Cabinet act AND ACT DECISIVELY. Act decisively means ensuring tough immigration policy. Officers sleeping on the job musty be punished severely.

    Althopugh I did not share SAPP’s motion of nofidence to PM, I understand that concern on illegal immigrants is the major factor.

  39. #39 by yog7948 on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 10:50 pm

    Pekebun Kecil Tingkayu Buat Laporan Polis Terhadap CP Sabah.. This case have been for ages..

    Why no action taken? What the point having leaders talking about Sabahans marginalized by Government when at their own ground they do nothing.. Talk Ck only.. No Action.

    Only talk how brave their forefathers was.. where is yours? In sabah, when you probe on any case, eventually it will link someone from the BN government. Case Close..

    Sabahan must get united first, disband all the existing party and form up a new only or just join DAP or PKR. Be the “king maker” not the slave .

    If you can’t help yourself than no one can.. I served in sabah for more than 10 years. i have seen places where the locals drink rain water for survival.. pity them.

  40. #40 by Godfather on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 10:57 pm

    shamshul anuar said:

    “As for “time bomb” with regard to filipinos in Sabah, I hope that PM and Cabinet act AND ACT DECISIVELY. Act decisively means ensuring tough immigration policy. Officers sleeping on the job musty be punished severely. ”

    We are all rolling about on the floor again, our sides split in laughter at this comment. The PM has been sleeping for 5 years – is it not enough that punish him severely ? How severe must we be on your political masters, Shamshul ? Don’t be a hypocrite.

  41. #41 by hiro on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 11:11 pm

    I think this must be the job for Rais to file a diplomatic protest.

    And back in Malaysia, never too soon for Badawi to institute a commission of inquiry on Project IC.

  42. #42 by yog7948 on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 11:15 pm

    The government is treating Sbah just like a gold mine only.. with their Minions in charge there. They reap the land till nothing left then will passed it back to the Sulu’s. They don’t give a dame bout the people their..

    The CM himself is not genuine sabahan.. what else you expect? These carpet guys are rich enough to buy their own country.

  43. #43 by limkamput on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 11:21 pm

    shamshul anuar said:With regards to office of Sultanate of Sulu issuing ICs, Malaysia must act by sending a protest to Manila.

    In the first place, is the Sultanate of Sulu recognised by Manila? Unless I missed something here. What is the issue here? Who care about the Sultanate of Sulu? What is the relevancy here? Sdr Lim, I think we have more urgent task to do that indulging in the nincompoop stuff. We are only giving credence to a totally ignorable stuff.

  44. #44 by limkamput on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 11:24 pm

    sorry repost:
    shamshul anuar said:With regards to office of Sultanate of Sulu issuing ICs, Malaysia must act by sending a protest to Manila.

    In the first place, is the Sultanate of Sulu recognised by Manila? Unless I missed something here. What is the issue here? Who care about the Sultanate of Sulu? What is the relevancy here?

    Sdr Lim, I think we have more urgent task to do than indulging in this nincompoop stuff. We are only giving credence to a totally ignorable issue.

  45. #45 by yog7948 on Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 11:30 pm

    memory Refresh:

    The IC project as it was..

    //gundohing.netfirms.com/?p=347

    How Mr PeeEmm want to take immediate action? After all the things done by that “Traitor of sabahan” Pasthun Guy..

  46. #46 by raven77 on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 12:21 am

    Sabah sudah kena jual….pity the Sabahans…..they never even knew their state is gone….

  47. #47 by P.O.T.S on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 12:35 am

    Aiya…No need for the Sultanate of Sulu/Sabah to issue such birth certificates…

    The general hospital and any government health centers can do that for the Filipinos la.

    All babies born in any government hospital will automatically receive a legitimate birth certificate, even if the parents are both illegals and without a valid passport or documentation.

    Sixteen years later, these children are eligible to apply for a Malaysian IC, and it comes with muslim bumiputera special privileges.

    all in a day’s work for BN/UMNO.

  48. #48 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 12:43 am

    “I had asked the Deputy Home Minister to cause a full investigation into the issue of birth certificates by the Sultanate of Sulu & North Borneo/Sabah for children born in Sabah and to make a ministerial statement in Parliament…” Kit

    Sulu being a province of Philippines, the issue of the Fillipino claim over Sabah has never been settled. This issue will keep surfacing as a reminder that boundaries were drawn by European powers as long ago as the 16th century or earlier without so much as a reference to the status of these territories vis-avis each other, that history is written by the victors leaving the vanquished having to deal with the consequences.

    Today these are flashpoints for international conflict.

    While the BN run government may put the issue of Philippine’s claim over Sabah on the back burner, looking at the problem in its broader context – especially in a world with the price of a barrel of oil breaking new records – what is a dormant and an isolated issue may take on renewed urgency involving nation states as far away as China which is fast becoming a world military power.
    Today Vietnam occupies some 20 plus atolls and reefs in the Spratlys, the Philippines eight, Malaysia four and Taiwan one. Considering these are outposts manned by soldiers some so close to each other, the potential for conflict is real and could easily transfer from the diplomatic to the military faster than you can ask “Where have all the oil gone?”

    The recent claims to sovereignty over Batu Puteh and Pulau Pisang with Singapore may have been resolved but others are waiting their turn. Muslim-majority provinces Narathiwat, Pattani and Yala bordering our northern border with Thailand begs the issue of how people here came to be Muslims when the rest of Thailand is fundamentally Buddhist.

    Flashpoints for international conflict? You bet!

  49. #49 by limkamput on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 1:15 am

    what is your focus here, undergrad2? what are you talking about? Spratlys, Sabah or Southern Thailand? I think they deserve different treatments. To me it is clear, Sabah and Southern Thailand are not Spratlys. Please don’t complicate issue here. We have enough problem at hand. Please raise issue that are of no immediate concern.

  50. #50 by limkamput on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 1:17 am

    SORRY…..Please DON’T raise issues that are of no immediate concern.

  51. #51 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 2:10 am

    “I think they deserve different treatments.” nincompoop

    Did I suggest they deserve the same or different treatment of anything? I merely raised the issue!

    They may be different regions but it is over a common issue, like a thread linking them together and that common thread is about who has the better claim over jurisdiction – and about conflict resolution.

    Like I always say, “Don’t leave too much poop behind you every time you enter this blog”. Show some respect to the host.

  52. #52 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 5:31 am

    YB,

    ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH is right in his posting Yesterday at 16: 52.44 that the authenticity of the birth certificate should first be verified.

    According to Birth Cert, Alpa bin Julaidi was born in 08-08-1994 to Julaidi bin Eria of 41 years of age, described under “occupation as “mag-uuma” meaning in Taus?g or Suluk language “father” and Haddaya binti Ladsalam described as “Tunggu Bay” or mother iinm that language.

    Based on the Birth Cert, the father is 40 years of age but what is the mother’s age?

    Does it look like 39? Or more like 99 years ? If “99” years of age (already menopausal) :), it is a joke, no woman but perhaps only in ‘Taus?g’ can give birth at 99 years of age!

    Anyway even if its 39 it is strange that in an official document, under item “occupation” the official just inserted “mag-uuma” and “Tunggu Bay” meaning father and mother which is not telling anything about the ocupation!

    Anyway, the birth certificate purports to say that there is another country called Taus?g in Sabah of which father mother and son are all citizens; that ‘Taus?g’ is an independent state governed by the Sulu Sultanate, homelands in the Sulu Archipelago to Suluk people, an ethnic group of the Philippines and Malaysia forming part of the wider Moro ethnic group, who constitute the sixth largest Filipino ethnic group.

    This Birth certificate is purportedly issued by a ‘Ministry of Civil Registry’ signed by acting minister Asarani bin Jurrani, countersigned by a “Datu Bantilan” , a kind of ceremonial title linked to Royalty.

    This birth cert is outside the laws of the country – Registration of Birth and Deaths Ordinance & National Registration Act, meaning the babies born under such certs (outside Federal recording) have no official identity, official name much less nationality and are “invisible’ by our laws. It means in Sabah no one is certain of birth and death rates.

    Keeping proper records of birth – which is related to other issues of security law and order – is a primary responsibility of governance and a basic onstitutional duty of government. It is absent in Sabah.

    What is more shocking the central government tolerates groups of people staking a claim that there is another country Taus?g and that basically the sovereign there – the sultan of Sulu & North Borneo/Sabah does not recognise the central government as a government or that Sabah is even part of Malaysia.

    This is not only sedition, it tantamounts to treason and yet the central govt is quiet about it? It is most strange suggesting Federal Government is implicated in something here that it does not take action which in normal cases it otherwise would.

  53. #53 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 5:33 am

    correction – ‘Taus?g’ should be ‘Tausug’

  54. #54 by Jong on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 6:32 am

    “As for “time bomb” with regard to filipinos in Sabah, I hope that PM and Cabinet act AND ACT DECISIVELY. Act decisively means ensuring tough immigration policy. Officers sleeping on the job musty be punished severely.” – shamshul anuar

    hahaha, have you been sleeping too, shamshul? Since when has PM Abdullah ‘act decisively’ on any matters at all? Do you honestly think they bother to know what goes on in Sabah since joining Malaysia?

  55. #55 by sotong on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 7:45 am

    This is the direct result of decades of bad leadership and governance of the country……we have a long way to go before we are ready as a country to face the challenges of globalisation and competition.

  56. #56 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 8:16 am

    Sir Jeffrey Qc,

    Thank you for the intepretation of the sulu’s language. You are indeed a very learned man. Another point to take note is the date the birth certificate is prepared. :- 05-27-08. (m/d/y) , which is dubious indeed.

    Surprising, the occupation of the parents are mere father and mother.I am learning everyday.!!!

    I am only being overly cautious with “planted documents” . tq .

  57. #57 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 8:45 am

    I can’t see where it is stated the birth certificate the date it was prepared/issued which ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH said it was (m/d/y) 05-27-08.

    If so one can’t have a person born in 08-08-1994 and a birth cert issued 14 years later in 05-27-08!

  58. #58 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 9:31 am

    Actually is there a really Sultan of Sulu & North Borneo/Sabah on whose behalf birth certificates are issued for his “subjects” in Sabah?

    It is said that he is H M Sultan Muhammad Fuad A. Kiram I, the 36th Sultan of Sulu and Sabah (crowned on 3rd June 2006) but who really is his ‘Royal Highness’ – has he a birth certificate or citizenship paper recognised by the law?

    This alleged existence of a Sultanate of Sulu & North Borneo/Sabah is based on the corollary claim of the existence of the Sultan of Sulu & North Borneo/Sabah.

    Does such a man however exists? Do we have a photograph of him? If the Sultan himself has not the birth certificate himself recognised by our laws then such a man even if physically exists is in law non existent!

    If he is non existent in law (person non grata), then there is no Sultanate of Sulu & North Borneo/Sabah in existence except in the minds of some people and the birth certificate will not be worth the paper it was written on, wouldn’t it?

  59. #59 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 9:52 am

    Dear Sir Jeffrey QC,

    If you kindly look at the ( prepared by column ) signed by one Asarani, you will notice the date i so stated.

    thank you.

  60. #60 by pulau_sibu on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 9:57 am

    I still don’t understand what is the problem with their government issuing birth certificate to their own citizens? These people are not our citizens and why we have to be concerned with what their government is doing? Why do we need to interfere with the administration of other country? They have their job to look after their own people. Of course, such a sultanate has to be recognised by their own people (may not be recognised by the Philippines).

    Did I miss something here?

  61. #61 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 10:07 am

    Dear pulau_sibu,

    para 3 , was well written by YB Lim (………illegally legalised illegal immigrants through project IC……….). the concern here is that when and if ever MYKAD is provided for the citizens of sulu. Thats when a ” Sulusian becomes a Malaysian”. Thats raises concern for the people of Sabah and Malaysia .

    rgds.

  62. #62 by limkamput on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 10:21 am

    Mega moron< this is what you said:
    1. Did I suggest they deserve the same or different treatment of anything? I merely raised the issue!

    2. They may be different regions but it is over a common issue, like a thread linking them together and that common thread is about who has the better claim over jurisdiction – and about conflict resolution.

    Now if put the two together, they become consistently inconsistent, got it. I think you can do better than that. Huh, they deserve different treatments but the issue is the same? what are you talking about? I am telling you the issue over Sabah and Southern Thailand is NOT the same as Spratly, got it, moron? To put them together, you are creating problems that are not there. Oh ya, potential flashpoints. Why don’t you say Kelantan, Kedah and Trengganu were once under Thailand and that also is potential flashpoint (that is provided you read enough history to know what i am talking about. how about Melaka? do you think Melaka should continue to send bunga emas to Thailand? It is potential flashpoint of conflict you know). Nothing can be more talking cock than you.

  63. #63 by donplaypuks on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 11:19 am

    Dear LKS

    Please do not waste everybody’s time with these sort of issues which do not figure materially in the problem of aliens in Sabah. A far more serious problems are the question of illegals with IC’s and those faking to to be Bajaus to claim Bumiputra status.

    The real question is when is the govt going to repatriate the illegals. This is what you and DAP should be pressuring the Govt on in Parliament, day in, day out, to get results.

    You would also do weel to pay heed to broad-based perception that DAP is anti-Malay (read Raja Petra’s various blogs), and take proper steps and up your & DAP’s campaigns to correct these negative image problem. Becoz when push comes to shove, the rural Malays who deserted UMNO in the last GE, will continue to vote PAS of PKR if they see DAP as being not interested in the welfare, culture and religion of the Malays!!
    http:/donplaypuks.blogspot.com

  64. #64 by sabahan on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 11:34 am

    Come to your senses, there is no way we can escape this particular issue about Sabah. The fact that we are all disturbed by this seemingly useless piece of paper from the parliament down to the masses, attest to the truth that underneath our feet lies a hollow ground- And that is, some people has a historical rights to be here not only to live but also to own. Not just as a citizen but can even be a ruler.

    WE are all afraid to face it, even our government will not consent to International Court of Justice because it will surely lose the case. It is more powerful, heavier and clearer than the Pulau Batu Putih. We can remain tyrant and unjust towards these people but we can never be forever. How could Malaysians become like an Israelites towards Palestinians? That is unimaginable.

    If Muslim Sabahans will not act like a muslim towards his neighbour muslims from another state, in dire need of their help, other people from outside will surely take advantage.

    More than the lease of Sabah is the lease of life, power and wealth. Fear Allah who tested us with wealth and power today. And avoid the fate of the once powerful Sulu Sultanate.

  65. #65 by monsterball on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 12:30 pm

    I disagree with donplaypuks that this issue is less important than others.
    If he is the victim….lets see what he will write. Donplaypuiks is unreasonale.
    LKS became their voice….and voice for so many other issues of all racers..for 50 years.That’ s why…he is ever so popular to Malaysians.
    My conclusion to the post is…these more than million were not given citizenship….as UMNO may have found out….vast majority may vote against UMNO and BN.
    UMNO have a track record….to make life difficult for other races and places…that do not support them…as seen now….in Penang.
    I don’t agree with donplaypuks…that DAP is anti-Malays at all. This is the only weapon..UMNO keep using for 50 years…..and make sure most Malays believe that.
    Lim Kit Siang is the champion of exposing corrupted acts of UMNO ..without fear nor favor…for past 50 years…..and was the first to exposed…Bank Bumiputra.
    Are the stolen money belong to all Malaysians.or just one race?
    Did Lim Eng Guan went to jail….defending a poor helpless Malay woman…for justice…or fun or for his personal glory?
    Yes…Lim Kit Siang defended the Malaysian Chinese more than anything else…simply because MCA and Gerakan are stooges of UMNO..and there is no one to defend the Malaysian Chinese..whereas….anything wrong with other races..especially the Malays…so many will make sure UMNO needs to right the wrongs immediately….or else.
    The …’or else’ was seen at the 12th election…with so much Malays voting against UMNO.

  66. #66 by badak on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 2:22 pm

    Its all about corruption..How many goverment servants was investicated for issusing FAKE IC,s. Now we even have FAKE MY CARDS.To date as far as i know only 2 persons was convicted.
    With this kind of figures, do you guys think that the UMNO led BN goverment is serious about illegals in Sabah.
    All this talk about a big sweep of illegals .Is all just an eye wash.Firstly let the goverment plug the holes.If not this illegals will just get a free ride home.After a month they will be back in SABAH.

  67. #67 by budak on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 2:52 pm

    [IMG]http://www.goimageshare.com/out.php/i11274_MsiaPM.jpg[/IMG]

    Have you done your part…???

  68. #68 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 7:03 pm

    Are you guys ready for some comic relief? Why not!

    Here is the issue.

    A claims he is the beneficiary of a kampong school education. He bashes people around for their postings. He can’t stand particularly a poster who says he is from Cambridge university, and uses derogatory terms to describe him. He takes to task a regular contributor to this blog for not knowing how to write. He says he is smarter and everybody else is stupid. He later tells us that he has been to the United States with his family studying before anybody else on this blog and others should take note To prove how knowledgeable he is than another poster, he insists that the United States was founded some 300 plus years ago – though it is a matter of public record that the year the U.S. came into being as a state and as a nation is 1776. He then insists that the U.S. Declaration of Independence is the same as the U.S. Constitution. He says to posters he could be their father and to take care what they post on this blog as he knows better since he has been round the block a few times. Upon returning to his country from the U.S., he served the corrupt BN government until, he tells us, he was decorated on retirement by the Agong with honors which he declares as “fairly respectable”.

    Obviously he is uncomfortable in his own skin. No, that is not all. Finally he proudly tells us how he comes to use ‘limkamput’ as his handle. It derives, he says, from ‘nincompoop’ and sounds like it and he relishes in the fact that everybody has been deceived by him. He starts his own blog and later blasted the moderator for ‘not allowing him to advertise on this blog” here when others could.

    What is wrong with this picture?

  69. #69 by P.O.T.S on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 7:17 pm

    Jabatan Pendaftaran Negara issuing birth certificates and automatic Malaysian citizenship to Filipino kids:

    http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2008/07/senseless-in-sabah-1.html

  70. #70 by lextcs on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 7:21 pm

    one more thing…what is this issuing no confidence motion without any no confidence vote? what happened to our pakatan taking over? Pordah lah! think this is all another big scam in the making…..talk talk talk talk no action…..the higher a politician climbs the LIAR he/she gets!

  71. #71 by katdog on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 10:35 pm

    I thought Philipines was a republic? Do the the Philipines even recognize the Sulu Sultanate and allow them to officiate documents?

  72. #72 by sudokuku on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 11:09 pm

    wow, with this birth cert, are they BUMI?,
    then it is not very difficult to get BUMI Status now days, free land, free loan & discount, one day in future all Malaysian Citizen is BUMI, others are goner.

  73. #73 by sudokuku on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 11:20 pm

    In 2025, Malaysia will be rename the United State of Bumiputera, other are welcome to convert or get out.

  74. #74 by sudokuku on Thursday, 10 July 2008 - 11:48 pm

    I know for fact that others are discourage to give birth for more than 3 child in Gomen hospital, after 3rd child the parent will need to see family planing section and given free optional birth control devises, but this do not apply to BUMI, I was standing outside the family planning room and the people inside is 100% others, even when BUMI with 7th child ( they bring all of them ) they were never send to the family planning section. hmm wonder why?.

  75. #75 by shamshul anuar on Friday, 11 July 2008 - 12:14 am

    Dear Limkamput,

    Yes, Sir. Sultanate of sulu once was a sovereign nation way back 200 years ago. The Sultanate once was the ruler of area now called Sabah and part of Southern Philipines islands.

    But that was history. The last Sultan in Philipines history, Sultan Jamalil Kiram, Sultan of Mindanao passed away in 1936. With the death, the long history of Sultans in Philipines came to an end.

    The descendants are still alive. They still carry the honorary title but without the sovereignty. Actually, Manila could not be bothered about Sultanates. Manila prefers to ignore the history of Sultanates in order not to legitimize the rights of Muslims in Philipines.

    However, on the other hand, Manila finds these Sultanate as useful on its claim over Sabah.

    What Dr Rais must do is to protest to Manila. We must urge Manila not to allow The Sultanate to issue ridiculous birth certs. How can The Sultanate issue birth cert on territory not under its control .

    As for Sudokuku, rest assured Christians Bisaya tribe also find refuge in Sabah. During Pairin’s rule, Sabah really welcomed East Timorese.

    The problem is not Islam or Christian immigrants. The problem is lack of political will. SAPP’s uproar over immigration problem in Sabah serves as a lesson for Kuala Lumpur. Ignore at your own peril.

  76. #76 by shamshul anuar on Friday, 11 July 2008 - 12:22 am

    Dear Monsterball,

    They say there is always the other side of the coin. Perception among Chinese communities is that MCA and MIC play second fiddle to UMNO.

    Correction. UMNO does not treat MCA or MIC with disdain. However, political reality is that UMNO is accorded as “first among equal’ in BN. The reason is actually very simple. Due to UMNO’s position as the party with the most number of seats in BN. it is treated as “senior partner”. Actually, it is not that peculiar. DAP is the senior partner in Penang . Why? Because among PAS, PKR, DAP, DAP has the most number of seats ;that is 19 in Penang. Similarly, despite Nizar being the MB of Perak, everybody knows that he is under influence of DAP. Nothing strange about that. DAP has 18 seats while PAS 6.

  77. #77 by I Malaysian on Friday, 11 July 2008 - 2:01 am

    One letter from the then secretary of state of Johor changed the fate of Batu Putih. Similarly one letter ( could be more) changed the fate of Sabah; from the Sultanate of Sulu it became a part Malaysia. Being an inherited heir it’s normal for the sultan to feel cheated as he does not enjoy his shares like our sultans in Malaysia. The birth certificates is probably one of the sultan’s way to challenge the Malaysian government.

  78. #78 by Kathy on Friday, 11 July 2008 - 6:16 am

    This is something that was brought up sometime ago. Let us see how the government is going to handle this issue (or are they?)

  79. #79 by undergrad2 on Friday, 11 July 2008 - 8:33 am

    A two-liner. OK.

  80. #80 by limkamput on Friday, 11 July 2008 - 2:58 pm

    [email protected] [email protected]@[email protected]
    there is no need to get personal. Just answer the points i raised earlier. You have no answer, am i right? So don’t resort to personal attack when you are cornered. It can not further your standing and argument, got it?

  81. #81 by bystander on Friday, 11 July 2008 - 5:50 pm

    in years to come maybe sabah will end up like kashmir?

  82. #82 by undergrad2 on Friday, 11 July 2008 - 7:43 pm

    I need Kathy to respond – not ‘his’ alter ego!

  83. #83 by undergrad2 on Friday, 11 July 2008 - 7:44 pm

    [email protected] [email protected]@[email protected]
    there is no need to get personal.”

    But I want to get personal – got it? Got it? Got it??

  84. #84 by undergrad2 on Friday, 11 July 2008 - 7:45 pm

    Nincompoop,

    What do you think of the comic relief? It cannot get more comical that that. Don’t you think?

  85. #85 by undergrad2 on Friday, 11 July 2008 - 7:48 pm

    In case you missed, I’ll do the necessary re-posting just for you!

    undergrad2 Says:

    Yesterday at 19: 03.45
    Are you guys ready for some comic relief? Why not!

    Here is the issue.

    A claims he is the beneficiary of a kampong school education. He bashes people around for their postings. He can’t stand particularly a poster who says he is from Cambridge university, and uses derogatory terms to describe him. He takes to task a regular contributor to this blog for not knowing how to write. He says he is smarter and everybody else is stupid. He later tells us that he has been to the United States with his family studying before anybody else on this blog and others should take note To prove how knowledgeable he is than another poster, he insists that the United States was founded some 300 plus years ago – though it is a matter of public record that the year the U.S. came into being as a state and as a nation is 1776. He then insists that the U.S. Declaration of Independence is the same as the U.S. Constitution. He says to posters he could be their father and to take care what they post on this blog as he knows better since he has been round the block a few times. Upon returning to his country from the U.S., he served the corrupt BN government until, he tells us, he was decorated on retirement by the Agong with honors which he declares as “fairly respectable”.

    Obviously he is uncomfortable in his own skin. No, that is not all. Finally he proudly tells us how he comes to use ‘limkamput’ as his handle. It derives, he says, from ‘nincompoop’ and sounds like it and he relishes in the fact that everybody has been deceived by him. He starts his own blog and later blasted the moderator for ‘not allowing him to advertise on this blog” here when others could.

    What is wrong with this picture?

  86. #86 by rainbowseahorse on Friday, 11 July 2008 - 8:06 pm

    Reading the above arguements about the fate of Sabah, It just reminded me of what I like to tease my West Malaysians counterparts.. and that is: ” What you West Malaysians referred to as States complete with Sultans and all, we in Sabah would called our District but with District Officers instead of Sultans.

    Now I think I might have to rethink that ’cause we Sabahans might possibly get a Sultan for the whole of the State of Sabah.

  87. #87 by undergrad2 on Friday, 11 July 2008 - 10:21 pm

    “What you West Malaysians referred to as States complete with Sultans and all, we in Sabah would called our District but with District Officers instead of Sultans. Now I think I might have to rethink that ’cause we Sabahans might possibly get a Sultan for the whole of the State of Sabah.”

    Will that ‘sultan’ be standing for elections? The ones in West Malaysia do not have to.

  88. #88 by limkamput on Saturday, 12 July 2008 - 2:02 am

    Undergrad2, let me show you how screwed up your English and thinking process are:

    1. You don’t use “beneficiary” of a kampung school education. If kampong school connotes disadvantage, then it can’t be beneficiary. So beneficiary is a wrong choice of word. If you want me to give you a more appropriate word, please ask and I will revert to you.

    2. There were no derogatory terms used (unlike you), but mostly intellectual discourse. Again, you are wrong.

    3. It is not “that contributor” does not know how to write. It is he trying to be indulge in “hollow sophistication”. So you are wrong again.

    4. I was in the US earlier than you, not anybody else. How many wrongs already?

    5. With regard to the declaration of independence, the US constitution and the founding of US, I think I can understand where these are coming from. I realized I was talking with a half baked nincompoop whose mind is like a pre-school kid where everything must be stated in black and white. This person does not have the faculty to understand things in context. So you are not only wrong, but also stupid.

    6. Yes the award is fairly respectable and I am fairly confident you will never get it in your life time. So please don’t be envious of things you do not have. It is one of the major sin.

    7. There is nothing wrong with my skin. Is there anything wrong with yours?

    8. Is there a problem with my blog? I challenge you to set up a blog of your own and write me thirty pieces in two months (for this is what I did and many of my pieces have also been published by a major newspaper with good reviews by fellow readers). If you can do that, I will keep my peace and never to argue with you again. But I know you are not good enough to do that. My blog again in case you tried to forget: limkamput-nincompoop.blogspot.com

  89. #89 by limkamput on Saturday, 12 July 2008 - 2:05 am

    Undergrad2, let me show you how scr*wed up your English and thinking process are:

    1. You don’t use “beneficiary” of a kampung school education. If kampong school connotes disadvantage, then it can’t be beneficiary. So beneficiary is a wrong choice of word. If you want me to give you a more appropriate word, please ask and I will revert to you.

    2. There were no derogatory terms used (unlike you), but mostly intellectual discourse. Again, you are wrong.

    3. It is not “that contributor” does not know how to write. It is he trying to be indulge in “hollow sophistication”. So you are wrong again.

    4. I was in the US earlier than you, not anybody else. How many wrongs already?

    5. With regard to the declaration of independence, the US constitution and the founding of US, I think I can understand where these are coming from. I realized I was talking with a half baked nincompoop whose mind is like a pre-school kid where everything must be stated in black and white. This person does not have the faculty to understand things in context. So you are not only wrong, but also stupid.

    6. Yes the award is fairly respectable and I am fairly confident you will never get it in your life time. So please don’t be envious of things you do not have. It is one of the major sin.

    7. There is nothing wrong with my skin. Is there anything wrong with yours?

    8. Is there a problem with my blog? I challenge you to set up a blog of your own and write me thirty pieces in two months (for this is what I did and many of my pieces have also been published by a major newspaper with good reviews by fellow readers). If you can do that, I will keep my peace and never to argue with you again. But I know you are not good enough to do that. My blog again in case you have tried to forget: limkamput-nincompoop.blogspot.com

  90. #90 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 12 July 2008 - 2:36 am

    For someone who has a blog to run, you sure have plenty of time on your hands!! I wonder why??

    But hey who says it is wrong to advertise for your blog especially when there is just one party writing to himself….lol. Some readers here may want to help you out. Nothing to be embarrassed about! I’m sorry I cannot. Got better things to do.

    Why am I still waiting for that ‘bunch of IP addresses’ that you have which you say all belong to one person??

    I think you’re testing the patience of readers too much and too long with your tirade. You need to take a break. I’m going off for my summer vacation in the Mediterranean, enjoy the sun a little bit.

  91. #91 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 12 July 2008 - 2:40 am

    “There is nothing wrong with my skin. Is there anything wrong with yours?” limkamput

    The last time I checked it was pink. How about yours??

  92. #92 by limkamput on Saturday, 12 July 2008 - 2:47 am

    i have told you earlier to send me your email and will forward the postings to you.

    No, i was not talking to myself. I have at least 10 to 20 people visiting my blog. that is good enough. mine is the heavy stuff. so you are wrong again.

    Ya, for a parasite who enjoys the best of both worlds, what is new othe than sun at the med. You know what, may be the next piece in my blog is to ask all national governments to close down all the good for nothing international organisations that only give good life to those who work there.

  93. #93 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 12 July 2008 - 5:15 am

    Closing down Club Med?? That is not a good idea. Club Med in Trengganu is part of an international chain. I worked hard on this project when they first floated the idea to local investors. Some 40 years down the line, holiday makers come as far as Japan, Europe, U.S. and not just from neighboring S’pore. Think about the foreign exchange the country is making. Not much but it helps.

  94. #94 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 12 July 2008 - 5:19 am

    What about the ‘bunch of IP addresses’ you promise you would make public? Just publish them here! The others may be interested to know. Providing the first 3 digits will do fine.

  95. #95 by lopez on Saturday, 12 July 2008 - 8:17 am

    Strange but seeing a copy of a birth cert can be quite convincing,
    maybe the bee end can explained when did they sub contract bolihland to another sovereign and what were the conditons and can a copy of that agreement be transparently disseminated for all stakeholders who possessed a original mykad to see and opine.

    A bottle can only hold so much water, you cannot force anymore into it, you just cannot. That is what is meant by impossible.

    But in bolihland , it can be done and have proof too.

    Welcome to the society of bolihland scientific political thought.

    A jabatan will be formed soon or maybe it is already in existence, thank you to the ministry of misinformation.

    All this happening and some of our grand parents, brothers and sisters, cousins and nephews still cannot get a fair deal of being granted the nation’s passport.
    If you dont want these people just give them a passport so they can get the hell of their dilemma….being held at ransom and stay as a prisoner in a land of their birth.

    And NOW this…..so much talk of ns, territory claims and sack that person who getting my part of my taxes for sleeping and not working at all ……all these years.

    Whatever did they leant from the colonials…incomplete language lessons, incomplete law lessons or what ?

    Stop the deviation and quickly lets get back to the millennium before it is too late….it is world wide web

    Amazingly….Sultanate of Sulu is IT inclined ……

  96. #96 by limkamput on Saturday, 12 July 2008 - 9:53 am

    Undergrad2,
    It is my blog and i will decide what i want to do or not to do. I have offered to send the depraved postings to you if you so wished. This is the offer I am giving you. It is not for negotiation. If you miss my blog, here again i am giving you my address:
    limkamput-nincompoop.blogspot.com

    lol louder than you!!!!!

    By the way, you don’t have to wonder too much what i do or why i have so much free time to run my own blog or why i follow eastern standard time of US. I am just way too capable when compared with you. So don’t wonder, because it will never make sense to you.

  97. #97 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 12 July 2008 - 10:47 am

    I don’t want the postings!

    You were saying adamantly that you got a “bunch of IP addresses” that belong to one person and that person is me. So will you be so kind as to publish them here – not the racist postings you said were meant to “put you into trouble with the authorities.” Just the first three digits will do.

    The ‘authorities’ are reading this political blog because it is run by the former leader of the opposition. I don’t think they would be interested to read a blog which carries a name like limkamput-nincompoop. You can sleep tight!

  98. #98 by limkamput on Saturday, 12 July 2008 - 11:14 am

    This is the last time i am talking to you on this issue. if you go to this site, which most blog host will subscribe, you will know whether we get to see all the IP addresses or not. You are cave man.
    http://www.easy-poll.com/counters/user-login.html

  99. #99 by limkamput on Saturday, 12 July 2008 - 11:18 am

    i did not say it was you, although you were one of the suspect. As i said, 5 or 6 depraved postings all came in without two three minutes intervals and all with same writing sytle and using the same racist slurs. I THINK THE inference is easy to draw. Anyway, i don’t have to account to you. If it is not you, so be it. If it is you, I also know how to monitor and control now. So no issue and let move on.

  100. #100 by amdg84 on Sunday, 13 July 2008 - 2:45 pm

    Malaysia is illegally occupying North Borneo(Sabah). It rightfully belongs to the Sultanate of Sulu. Up to now, the malaysian government still pays the monthly rent to the Sultan of Sulu. And why your so afraid for this case be brought up to ICJ? Because we all know that your government will lose.

  101. #101 by good coolie on Sunday, 13 July 2008 - 4:49 pm

    k1980, brother/sister of mine,
    You’re right! I claim the title of “Earl of the Pearl of the Orient”.
    I reserve that title for my own use. So don’t steal it from this old pensioner, will you?

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