Call for RCI to conduct full inquiry on whether Israeli agents had infiltrated Bukit Aman


DAP calls for the establishment of a Royal Commission of Inquiry comprising respected, eminent and independent-minded Malaysians to conduct a full inquiry on whether Israeli agents had infiltrated Bukit Aman.

It is downright ridiculous and an international joke to have four agencies probing into the same matter, as announced by the Home Minister, Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein yesterday, namely the police, the Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission, the National Security Council and a parliamentary select committee.

I just could not believe that Hishammuddin could make such an outrageous announcement, totally lacking in seriousness about a very important national security problem.

In the first place, who would believe that the police would be able to independently and professionally investigate into this matter, when there appears to be a tradition of lack of police independence and professionalism on sensitive issues involving the highest reaches of police and the government.

A good case in point was the 1998 “black-eyes” attack on Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim by the then Inspector-General of Police in the very inner sanctum of Bukit Aman, just some fortnight after losing his high positions as Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister.

The top police leadership even got the then Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Dr. Mahathir Mohamad to declare publicly that Anwar’s “black eyes” could be self-inflicted, when Anwar was nearly beaten to death by the then Inspector-General in Bukit Aman!

Finally, only an independent Royal Commission Inquiry could delve out the truth about Anwar’s “black-eyes” assault.

Similarly, there is just no public confidence that the police would conduct and report on a no-holds-barred investigation into whether Israeli agents had infiltrated Bukit Aman – and the same applies to the Malaysian Anti-Corruption Agency, whose public stocks have fallen even lower than ever plumbed by its predecessor, the Anti-Corruption Agency and so long as the Teoh Beng Hock mysterious death remain unresolved, MACC would never regain public confidence.

As for the National Security Council probe, who will conduct it? Again, the police and Home Ministry officials? What a farce.

What is this parliamentary select committee mentioned by Hishammuddin which would conduct the fourth probe?

Would he agree and support the establishment of a Special Parliamentary Select with the specific term of reference to investigate whether there had been Israeli agent infiltration of Bukit Aman, headed by a Pakatan Rakyat Member of Parliament, with the Police and Government opening all documentation for the probe without resort to Official Secrets Act on grounds of national security?

Would Hishammuddin agree to have me or the PAS President, Datuk Seri Hadi Awang (as Parliamentary Opposition Leader Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim is an interested party, so to say) to head such a Parliamentary Select Committee?

I do not know whether the Cabinet has given its approval for the four simultaneous and parallel investigations by four agencies into one same issue – infiltration of Israeli agents into Bukit Aman – and if so, then it must stand as the most cock-eyed Cabinet decision in 53 years of the nation’s history.

Why are there more and more ridiculous and outrageous happenings under the Najib premiership, which had never happened or would have been completely unthinkable under the five previous Prime Ministers, like the Prime Minister launching a Barisan Nasional-United States (Congressional) Caucus in Washington next Thursday in the company of two so-called independent Members of Parliament?

I will propose in Parliament next week the establishment of a Royal Commission of Inquiry into Israeli agent infiltration of Bukit Aman in place of four simultenous and parallel investigations by four different agencies, with the composition of the Royal Commission of Inquiry the result of consultation with the Pakatan Rakyat parliamentary leaderswhip.

I hope that all the Barisan Nasional Ministers and MPs will give it support to this proposal in Parliament next week.

  1. #1 by donplaypuks on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 4:57 pm

    YB

    Let’s clear UMNO and Kerismudin’s smokescreen first.

    The matter of awarding packages in what was said to be a $4 billion IT/Computerisation PDRM contract to companies acting as nominees for BK Tan, a known underworld boss, and then subcontracted to S’porean and Israeli companies was exposed by RPK in M2Day in July 2008!!!

    RPK’s expose was unpdated again during this week at M2Day and more internal PDRM documents leaked about how the Home Minister (presumably Albar), was fully briefed on the security breach!

    When queried about why the IGP had personally recommended to PM AAB that contracts be awarded to BK Tan linked companies, I believe the head of our civil service replied that it was not against the SOP!

    Let me not mince my words and concerns. Our National Security was breached either by lax vetting or vested interests in PDRM headed by the IGP whose contract will not be renewed after September 2010!! The IGP reacted with typical shock!! horror!! when confronted with RPK’s shocking revelations and claimed he kbew nothing of it but would be “investigating thoroughly!!”

    Can anyone imagine the FBI engaging a Russian company or Israel a Saudi IT company for similar IT/Computerisation work in their countries? And if such a scandal surfaced there, top heads would not roll, including that of the respective Home Ministers and/or the President/PM? Americans and Israelis would be baying for BLOOD!!

    Here, there are grave concerns that a cover up has been initiated, all stones were left unturned and as usual “a thothally independent internal investigation found nothing to be worried about and no one was guilty of anything!!”

    As Patrick Teoh says in his blog, I can only shout,
    NIAMAH!!

    dpp
    We are all of 1 race, the Human Race

  2. #2 by frankyapp on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 5:36 pm

    Would Hishammuddin agree to have me or the PAS President, Datuk Seri Hadi Awang (as Parliamentary Opposition Leader Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim is an interested party, so to say) to head such a Parliamentary Select Committee?
    Simple answer is NO NO NO,with you guys around we all would be death in no time.

  3. #3 by sheriff singh on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 6:39 pm

    The moles left this note:

    ???? ????? ?????. ???? ??????. ????? ????? ?? ??? ??????. ????? ?????? ?? ?? ?????? ???. ????? ??? ????.

  4. #4 by monsterball on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 7:33 pm

    If that idiot does not talk like that and create sensational news…what is he good at…as a Minister?
    Patrick Teoh is fuming mad.
    NIAMAH!!….This kind can also be minister.

  5. #5 by DCLXVI on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 7:35 pm

    Jet engines of a RMAF jet fighter went missing and it was more than a year later that these engines were found on the other side of the world. So, should we be surprised if there are Israelis here in Malaysia?

  6. #6 by ringthetill on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 7:40 pm

    YB LKS, with due respect, may I say please don’t spoil the sham sandiwara show. It need to have Act 1, 2, 3 and 4 to add credence to the ‘much ado about nothin’ play. Ha ha my tak-bolehland.

  7. #7 by monsterball on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 7:51 pm

    Najib is bragging UMNO will win Hulu Selangor…and so they may…as PR won with a small margin in 12th GE.
    If I am PR…I will not be too concern nor spend too much on any by elections.
    It is the big one.the 13th GE…that counts.
    Winning 7 out of 9 by elections….UMNO have been clobbered in the past.
    These crooks will never change..with their thick skin faces.
    Wait for 13th GE showdown.
    That’s the Judgment Day…not the by elections.

  8. #8 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 7:59 pm

    The bigger picture may well be closer to this.

    First we all familiar with our culture of patronage/crony system. People in power get benefits of government contracts. They are awarded, without tenders, to cronies, often as turnkey contractors. These contracts are sizeable. They require expertise. However we also know that due to NEP, and other grouses, local talent (in whatever fields from IT to finance to medicine) continue to leave the country meaning there’s a dearth of local talent here.

    So the crony turnkey contractors outsource and sub-contract out different aspects of the job, often to foreign contractors with or without local subsidiaries in Malaysia. As contracts are sizeable they could afford to pay for foreign expertise.

    But foreign companies with expertise will somehow have people of Jewish descent working for them (The Jewish diaspora is world wide and many persons of Jewish descent are talented working in different parts of the globe).

    Its not just US based APCO whose 23 offices world wide have Jews working as advisers, consultants, partners. I am sure many of the multinational concerns presently allowed to operate in our country – for examples Dell Inc, Oracle, Toy ‘r’ Us, Baskins Robbins, Sun Microsystems, Haagen Dasz, Dunkin’ Doughnuts, Cisco Systems, Mattel and some foreign banks – have in their employ/strategic partnership, Jews or their sympathisers.

    People in power with political influence to swing the govt jobs to their crony companies as main turnkey contractor are more interested in their “cut”. They don’t involve in the nitty gritty aspects of how to organise factors of production for the contract/job. They leave that to their crony partners, who are not politicians and who out source jobs/sub-contracts to foreign companies employing or linked to Jews without realising the “sensitivity” of the “Jew link” when the jobs/contracts are farmed out by government with Islamic values and solidarily against Israel/Jews. What more sensitive communications systems job at the Police Headquarters!

    However it is to be noted that many other government jobs/contracts are equally “sensitive” in varying degrees – for examples, the IT jobs for the Army/Navy/Airforce, Telekoms, manufacture of Mykads, Driving Licences, building of telecommunications, dams and other major infrastructure projects – go check how many foreign consutants are involved in these contracts, and how many of them employ Jews!

  9. #9 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 8:01 pm

    (Continuing from preceding post)

    What we’re witnessing now is a kind of our own 1 Malaysia ‘MacCarthyism’ – well not exactly the kind experienced in America from the late 1940s to the late 1950s, in which the fear of Communist inflitration led to rampant politically motivated practice of making accusations of Communist links based on guilt by association principle – but our own version, replacing Communists with persons of Jewish/Zionist descent and afflilation as the Bogeyman for political attacks over both sides of the political fence as we rush up to meet the 13th GE of life and death!

    On why this “international joke to have four agencies probing into the same matter” (Israelis military intelligence personnel in IT project), well police are needed because of their routine investigative apparatus/experience but because they too have a say in awarding the RM1 billion IT job, MACC comes in to ensure that independence of investigations is seen and that there’s no corruption implicated in appointments. The National Security Council comes in because it impacts on national security when the job concerns the whole spectrum of security services intelligence data sought to be converted from analoque based to digital, and a parliamentary select committee for oversight over and coordination of the whole investigations and enquiry by the other 3 agencies.

    If this Malaysian ‘MacCarthyism’ is pursued to hilt, Anwar has a lot of political fodder.

    Whats happening in the IT job in police head quarters is the tip of the ice berg: What about IT jobs for the Army/Navy, the IC & Passport driving licence jobs, the bank jobs (including in bank Negara), the dam jobs ??? – check how many foreign consultants have Jews/Israelis in their employ! End up all sensitive govt jobs have to be outsourced by cronies to consultants from Middle East but do they have expertise???

  10. #10 by undertaker888 on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 8:09 pm

    where are those NGOs perkasa now? no HAK! HAK! HAK! on this issue? What a bunch of lunatic clowns. the so-called defender of the malay race? katak ali, nothing to say? here’s your real chance for defending.

    OYY!! zulkifli nordin? where are you hiding now? the so-called champion of islam. not a word from you? or are you suddenly a friend of zionism.

    katak zahrain, anything to add on the 2RM company? can you see now why LGE wouldn’t give you a hoot?

    ya, those [email protected], sons of the soiled. i’ll bet my last ringgit, they will ban the “A” word again. Altan..ya, A..lah, Abdul Bag..da. ANd now APCO.

  11. #11 by Loh on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 8:22 pm

    ///However we also know that due to NEP, and other grouses, local talent (in whatever fields from IT to finance to medicine) continue to leave the country meaning there’s a dearth of local talent here. ///–Jeffrey

    That may be true about Malay talents that have left the shores. Judging from the fact that there were only 10 Chinese in Johore state civil service, non-Malays in the country who could do the job will have no chance. That was precisely the NEP objective because the government wants to enfeeble non-Malays to alleviate the jealousy of Malays. That is why UMNO leaders do not talk about need, but they talk about how they compare what Malays have against non-Malays. They are therefore quite happy to offer contracts to foreigners, including the Jews. The Jews do not need to steal any secret from Malaysia. Malaysia knows how to go steadily into a failed state without Israel lifting her fingers. But should Israel be bothered with Malaysia which cannot even keep itself afloat, when crude oil dries up.

  12. #12 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 8:44 pm

    I agree with what Loh commented #11. From perspective of larger picture the controversy/bourhaha is absurd and farcical.

    On one hand they want to appoint foreign companies/experts and then on the other hand they have Jews (whether ex intelligence officers, system analysts, financiers etc) working for them!

    Hello multinationals look for expertise to contribute to their profits. The national affiliation or religious persuasion of people behind these companies with expertise do not form the basis of their hire or fire policy. It is meritocracy!

    If we have look for every foreign company/expert with world wide net works that have no Jew links, where to find? Jews (persecuted) are talented and strewn all over the world!

    You get consultants from Africa or Middle East (sure no Jews) and have our systems crash inermittently loh!

    And yet both sides want to find fault with each other and to fan the Israel/Jewish Bogeyman for political brownie points amongst the majority section of the electorate in this life and death struggle (for Anwar at least) for 13th GE!

    You must see ‘MacCarthyism’ for what it is : all kinds of accusations and counter accusations revolving around the Israel/Jewish factor and guilt by association. Its heating up (since APCO). As I say, look at other contracts in all the other sensitive areas.

  13. #13 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 8:46 pm

    Correction in 2nd para “….On one hand they want to appoint foreign companies/experts and then on the other hand COMPLAIN they have Jews (whether ex intelligence officers, system analysts, financiers etc) working for them!”

  14. #14 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 9:00 pm

    Oh I forget, we might as well not have friendly ties with the United States of America (USA) – what for all this Malaysia-United States (Congressional) Caucus??

    The USA is the biggest most consistent patron, backer and supporter of the Zionist regime of Israel! USA was the one that lobbied for creation of the present Israel and armed it to the teeth in the 7 day War against the Arabs!

  15. #15 by limkamput on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 9:22 pm

    They require expertise. However we also know that due to NEP, and other grouses, local talent (in whatever fields from IT to finance to medicine) continue to leave the country meaning there’s a dearth of local talent here. So the crony turnkey contractors outsource and sub-contract out different aspects of the job, often to foreign contractors with or without local subsidiaries in Malaysia. As contracts are sizeable they could afford to pay for foreign expertise. //Jeffrey

    I hope you are not giving damn excuses why foreign “experts” are preferred. May be foreign “experts” asked less questions and were easier to deal with. If ever they tried to be funny, they can always be booted out without hesitation. By the way, Jeffrey, please don’t ever say we are dearth of talent. Let me ask you why we have Malaysian companies that can win international contracts but in Malaysia they have to operate as sub-contractors. I think everybody knows the answer. Seriously I am not trying to be funny. I just wish you could be more honest and sincere in your comments here. I don’t believe a person of your caliber can be so stupid.

  16. #16 by limkamput on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 9:42 pm

    On why this “international joke to have four agencies probing into the same matter” (Israelis military intelligence personnel in IT project), well police are needed because of their routine investigative apparatus/experience………//jeffrey

    Since when you were appointed HH press officer?

  17. #17 by limkamput on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 9:50 pm

    If we use foreign experts, must we sacrifice our national security? Well it will only happen if we have all the nincompoops at the helm – people who are incompetent, stupid, lazy and leaving everything to the experts and their subordinates. Their main job is just to lobby, sign the contract and collect the commission.

  18. #18 by c730427 on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 10:40 pm

    You don’t need a Mossad agent to steal info national secrets lah! Any tom dick and harry could do that. Just look at our jet engines!!

  19. #19 by ekompute on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 10:47 pm

    “DAP calls for the establishment of a Royal Commission of Inquiry comprising respected, eminent and independent-minded Malaysians to conduct a full inquiry on whether Israeli agents had infiltrated Bukit Aman.”

    As long as we need foreign consultants, we will always be susceptible to infiltration… just that these Israelis really scr*ewed themselves up, if they were indeed trying to infiltrate. But to begin with… we know that there are Israelis but are they really Israeli infiltrators? How do we come to the conclusion that they are infiltrators? Any proof?

  20. #20 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 11:22 pm

    Lim Kam Put, what is your problem that you have to nit pick, split hair with the word ” dearth of local talent” that includes whatever reason our smaller pool of whatever local talent is somehow not given the job? Aren’t you not criticising and noit-picking for th sake of doing so?

    Re your comments – “I just wish you could be more honest and sincere in your comments here. I don’t believe a person of your caliber can be so stupid.”

    How exactly I am not honest or sincere in my comments here and what about them that they “can be so stupid”?

    On your remarks “Since when you were appointed HH press officer?” – so I am HH Press officer just because I give an explanation why HH have four agencies probing into the same matter that Kit descibes as ridiculous?

    And I am not supposed to give a reason for it – when there is a reason for it just because HH has proposed it?

    Your comments now give a clear insight why you choose a handle like “Lim Kam Put” and have a website http://limkamput-nincompoop.blogspot.com/ for they are synonymous, the main difference between the handle Lim Kam Put and Nincompoop being the spelling!

  21. #21 by frankyapp on Saturday, 10 April 2010 - 11:59 pm

    Why go thousands of miles away to seek advice and solution to the country’s ill.Down south just across a half mile bridge is Singapore where hundred and one solutions are available to help solve pretty lots of our sickness such as corruption,cleaniness,housing,IT solution and public service relation etc etc etc.

  22. #22 by HJ Angus on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 12:52 am

    All the big fuss about the Isrealis is simply because Malaysia does not give due respect to the state of Israel based on very narrow religious bias. If indeed the Israelis had “infiltrated” the top levels of our government, It is because our Ministers are simply inept and not doing their jobs properly by spending too much time on outside interests like toppling opposition state governments.
    The setting up of four different bodies also shows a lack of understanding as to how this “sensitive” issue should be handled or do we really have so many surplus officials who have nothing to do but try and grab some of the dazzling lights?
    I believe there is this story about LKY – when he first became the PM of Singapore, the CIA tried to bribe him as Singapore is considered a strategic state. LKY played along and arranged for the agent to be trapped by his police. Maybe something like this can happen in Malaysia – that is why they need to attack from four angles!

  23. #23 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 1:09 am

    This is to clarify the expression “nit pick” referred to in my earlier posting #20.

    A nit is a tiny parasite in hair. Local word for is the “kutu”.

    Nitpicking is prevalent especially amongst monkeys. They pick each others nits, a kind of mutual grooming! Likewise in case of humans the expression “nitpicking” used figuratively, means searching exhaustively for any appearance of tiniest error or mistake or vagueness of word without regard to larger context or validity of what is said.

    Another variant expression of it is “splitting hairs”. To spilt a hair would be a difficult and unnecessary operation and someone who wanted to do this, would be seen as obsessed with minor differences or problems, again without regard or acknowledgement of the larger context or validity or worth of a subject/message where fault is looked for, for its own sake, on selective basis.

    Nitwits nitpick when they have a bone to pick. There is no higher motivation. Indeed amongst persistent nitpickers it is a symptom of mental/emotional afflictions and deficiencies.

  24. #24 by dawsheng on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 4:39 am

    The politics in Malaysia is getting dirtier by the day.

  25. #25 by Joshua on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 4:49 am

    RCI = Royal Commission of Inquiry

    There have been so many calls for RCI over the decades and yet no real change has taken place under UMNO. So costly exercises into futility.
    UMNO greedy people are not concerned when the nation burns after the rot.

    So it is timely for an Interim Government for Good Governance IGGG for at least TWO years under the helm of totally new people to stop the terrible RUSE.

    So turn RCI into REAL CHANGE INITIATIVE.

    Joshua Kong
    PM for IGGG for a better Malaysia..

  26. #26 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 6:34 am

    When we read or write something, it is always in reference to wider context and not interpreting it literally. For example, when Kit wrote about why there was a need to have four different bodies to investigate the IT case, it was essentially trying to establish that there was no sincerity or resolve to find the truth. It is so obvious; typically we form committees or attribute the responsibility to multiple-agencies and at the end no one really knows who is responsible for what. Yet we have someone very eloquently trying to explain why the four agencies are required for this investigation.

  27. #27 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 6:59 am

    If you have an agenda and continue to write dishonestly, you can’t expect others to remain quiet and letting you have a field day. If you have nothing to hide, please counter those who criticized you rationally and objectively. Labeling other mentally unsound or resorting to under tactics is not a sign of a gentleman.

    You are dishonest because you subtlety tried to undermine the cause of opposition when the reality of abuse, corruption, manipulation and incompetency are staring right at your face. You tried to justify the use of foreign experts and hence compromising our security because there is a dearth of local talents (you see, you never blame those responsible for these contracts). I am telling you there is no lack of local talent. They prefer foreign experts because it is easier to siphon money through them – you know larger fees with no question asked. Secondly, even if we use foreign experts, there shouldn’t be compromise in our security if the counter party (that is us) is competent, smart and know how to control these experts. The problem with us is we let everything to them including controlling all the source codes. Our top echelon of the government only knows how to suck eggs seriously. Please don’t come to tell me that was not what you meant. Tell me then what exactly are you trying to say.

  28. #28 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 7:02 am

    i did not say you are stupid; i said given your calibre, you cannot be that stupid. Is there a difference there, sage? You are too smart for your own good!

  29. #29 by johnnypok on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 7:03 am

    During high-tide we cannot see the crabs at the bottom.
    Now that the tide has gone down, it is easy to catch them.
    Just surrender lah,,, all the HP6 crooks.

  30. #30 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 8:29 am

    ///For example, when Kit wrote about why there was a need to have four different bodies to investigate the IT case, it was essentially trying to establish that there was no sincerity or resolve to find the truth/// – Lim Kam Put

    That is only your own narrow interpretation – or misinterpretation based on wrong premise that if there were other many occasions they did not want to establish the truth, so in this case HH is doing the same thing, trying to camouflage by multiple agencies.

    To preserve their image they have to deny Anwar’s allegations of Israelis infiltration but here the possibility of infiltration is not denied. Instead Hishammuddin Hussein has conceded that there were problems with a computer firm -Asiasoft (M) Sdn Bhd – hired by the police headquarters in Bukit Aman and that the company’s services were terminated two years ago. HH conceded that “suspicious elements” sitting on the board of directors of the company were discovered even before the Permatang Pauh MP (Anwar) had raised the matter in Parliament.

    Any one who wanted to preserve govt’s image in denial of Anwar’s allegations of Israelis inflitration would not admit such things in mainstream media and would appoint one rather than an overkill of 4 agencies to investigate simply because its commonsense that its easier to cover up “spin” and “control” the investigations and their outcome when one agency is involved rather than 4!

    To cover up any wrongdoing and not ferret the truth the official sought to be protected must be in good books of politicians.The bringing in of 4 agencies including MACC (to check and balance police investigations) should be viewed in context of the relationship between HH and the top cop of which Kit himself has questioned in this blog whether the public appearance projected – that it was good – is really true. I need not have to say more.

  31. #31 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 8:32 am

    ///Yet we have someone very eloquently trying to explain why the four agencies are required for this investigation/// – Lim Kam Put. If what I say about the reasons for 4 agencies is not true, rebut it, show why they are not plausible as the true reasons, and don’t say I am “eloquently” trying to fabricate the reasons. Its a cheap shot.

  32. #32 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 9:05 am

    ///You tried to justify the use of foreign experts and hence compromising our security because there is a dearth of local talents///

    When did I try to justify use of foreign experts? I am merely stating the use of foreign experts/companies in large government deals is a observable fact.

    Whether the the use of IT company’s services (employing ex Israelis agents with expertise in security field) is based on a motive of enemies of national security or something that has happened because the IT consultancy happened to employ such people due to their expertise in a certain field or there are “larger fees” – and whether this has led to “national security” being compromised is yet to be determined, which is reason for investigations, and not just pre-preemptively assumed.

    The “dearth of local talents” is mentioned in context of the brain drain that is subsisting in this country not to mention other reasons why whatever that is left are not engaged. You have skewed what I said to mean that I deliberately shield those responsible for the contracts by “you see, you never blame those responsible for these contracts”. Did I say they are not to be blamed? In context what I focussed on was on how a thing like might have happened. Blaming who was reponsible for such contracts was not even the focus of what I posted because that is a matter of impending investigations and it is not right to point fingers on exactly who is to blame in a public forum like this well before we know more facts.

    ///You are dishonest because you subtlety tried to undermine the cause of opposition when the reality of abuse, corruption, manipulation and incompetency are staring right at your face/// – Lim Kam Put.

    Did I deny “reality of abuse, corruption, manipulation and incompetency are staring right at your face”?

    On “you subtlety tried to undermine the cause of opposition”, to you supporting Opposition Cause implies never criticising the Opposition or its head even if criticisms are legitimate or true. Thats a narrow and bizarre judgment of a nincompoop. You have a close mind set off only by an open mouth.

    I can do no better than to quote what one commentator (who used to regularly comment here but has since stopped) –

    “Only small minds would read statements criticial of PR stand on specific issues as being anti-PR” – Undergrad2 Feb 16th 2009 at 09:18.41 in Blog thread “A Betrayal of People’s Trust in Perak – Party Hopping in Perak” archieved.

    “I am not a member of any political party which gives me the freedom to criticise the leaders of all parties including PR.” – Undergrad2 Feb 16th 2009 09:30.03 – Blog thread “ A Betrayal of People’s Trust in Perak – Party Hopping in Perak”.

    Of greater importance is the truth and the Malaysian Cause.

    Your comment that “I subtlety tried to undermine the cause of opposition” is a view unique to your mental make-up of which I have no particular interest or desire to change, so you can keep on thinking so. I don’t think it dignifies a rebuttal.

  33. #33 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 9:21 am

    When I criticise the Opposition head you say that “I subtlety tried to undermine the cause of opposition” but when I support him in the accusation/charge of Sodomy II I don’t hear you saying “I subtlety tried to undermine the cause of the ruling party”.

    That is, in sum, how “skewed” your accusation is, citing and concentrating selectively on certain postings whilst ignoring others that don’t fit your view.

    Criticisms are easy to accept from men of quality, fairness and judgment but when low dunces of unbalanced and skewed bipolar judgment will affront, what man can stand the brunt without responding even against his better judghment?

  34. #34 by boh-liao on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 9:49 am

    A time 2 sneer n a time 2 act
    Action time now, 1 PR MP died of cancer, then 1 BN MP also died of cancer, score 1-1
    We need more BN MPs 2 kick d bucket in d service of our nation, any patriotic volunteers?

    Malaysians mudah lupa – ppl need 2 b reminded of d failures n corrupt acts of BN
    Civil societies n PR must use all means of communications 2 inform voters
    Don’t just rely on political ceramah, as polis more often than not will kacau n harass PR’s
    Use SMS, YouTube, blog, twitter, email, fax, manga, party newspapers, pamphlets, etc

    Remind Malays, nonMalays, fair-minded ppl, Christians, etc 2 b proactive n b real bosses who hire n fire, 2 determine d future of d nation by voting out UmnoB/BN
    Say ‘TAK NAK’ ‘DON’T WANT’ 2 racist, corrupt, self-enriching, divide-n-rule, evil, no-Allah-God, tak-suka-keluar, Malay-supremacy BN

    Educate voters in d coming by-elections
    As usual, BN will use taxpayers’ $$ 2 carry out buy-elections: grab n squeeze whatever goodies fr BN, but VOTE 4 PR, it’s OK

    PR must get their own houses in order – no more infighting, esp in East M’sia
    Show ppl PR can genuinely work together, start with Sibu, no more 2 candidates fr PR

    Now is d time 2 start sweeping out n burying BN 4 d sake of our future
    Don’t waste time setting up ineffective RCI, just concentrate voting out BN
    We want a genuine Malaysian Malaysia, not a bogus 1-race Malaysia

  35. #35 by flyer168 on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 11:38 am

    Dear YB LKS,

    God Alimghty is Great….

    You can call it Divine Intervention, Retribution, Karma cycle or whatever else you want to….

    Looks like the Saaribu’s curse is back to haunt Jibby & “sadly” this nation as well….

    The little boy who wanted to be PeeM, “Played with Matchsticks, then with Fire & cried “Wolf” too often” is now “Entangled with the GIANT Global Tarantula Spider & its Global Web Network”…

    There is no way anyone Individuals, Politicians, Nations, etc can “Break-Away” from Asiasoft, APCO, etc with their “Global Partners & Tentacles”….

    Big Boy’s Club Rules – If you want to Join & Play with us & then change your mind, in default…

    Then “You’re either With Us or You’re Without Us….& you will bear the International consequences…”

    Our Jaguh Kampung Morons with their “Ostrich” mentality finally met their match…

    At home these Tyrants, Mini Napoleans, etc can do as they like & when they are caught with their pants down, they have always played “Tai Chi” and hidden under their “Ketuanan Umbrella / Mother’s sarong”, etc….

    Just Who has got WHO by the “Orbs/Juglars” real big time…

    Bilderburgers/APCO/EADS or UMNO/BN…

    Zionism vs Ketuananism…

    Could this be a “Check-Mate” & “Game-over” for Jibby, UMNO/BN & SADLY Malaysia as well…

    What is the punishment for those caught in this situation in Korea, Japan & China….

    As we gave them more rope, they have now Hanged themselves with their own rope…

    And if they are still alive….don’t worry, this time “Uncle Sam” will do it for Malaysia !

    Just follow this link….

    http://www.apcoworldwide.com/Content/international_advisory_council/KeyStaff.aspx?ksid=9f78bc76-4b0c-4a7a-b32f-01b62d37afa6&name=AKwa&

    Aleksander Kwa?niewski….”Bilderberg….”

    http://www.nndb.com/company/920/000128536/

    americangoy.blogspot.com/…/bilderberg-2008-aipac-2008-obama-and.html

    http://blogpoliteia.wordpress.com

    http://mapper.nndb.com/start/?map=5513

    It is all about the Illuminati, G8 Group, the Bilderberg Group , Carlyle Group, the Triilateral Commission, etc…the “Big Boys” Clubs!

    So you can eat your heart out guys….

    Cheers.

  36. #36 by SENGLANG on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 11:46 am

    Sometime i just could help but think this Minister is just a crown. On the other hand he could not be so stupid if not then he is simply arrogant thinking that the power is still with them so they can simply say what ever nonsense they want, thinking all Malaysian are as stupid as them.

    We simply can just ignore what has been revealed and what are going to be revealed soon from MT.

    The 10 parts of which two has been reveled as of to day is serious. With all those supporting documentation what else the minister has to say

  37. #37 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 12:22 pm

    Instead Hishammuddin Hussein has conceded that there were problems with a computer firm -Asiasoft (M) Sdn Bhd – hired by the police headquarters in Bukit Aman and that the company’s services were terminated two years ago. HH conceded that “suspicious elements” sitting on the board of directors of the company were discovered even before the Permatang Pauh MP (Anwar) had raised the matter in Parliament.// Jeffrey

    So if they knew the problem, what are they doing about it other than terminating the company’s services two years ago? Why nothing further was done until the issue was brought up again recently. They should have initiated the investigation then. How much did the government lose even though the contract was terminated? How much have we paid for services that are useless or non-functional? Who were responsible for appointing this company without checking its credential, not just in terms of its Israeli link but also in terms of its expertise and capability? Why in Malaysia each time the government goes into a contract or agreement, the govt must be in the receiving end of the deal? Who are supposed to protect the interest of the government and why are they not doing the job. Why can’t you highlight all these? If you say I misinterpret or interpreting narrowly, you are effectively saying Sdr Lim was like me.

  38. #38 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 12:28 pm

    Any one who wanted to preserve govt’s image in denial of Anwar’s allegations of Israelis inflitration would not admit such things in mainstream media and would appoint one rather than an overkill of 4 agencies to investigate simply because its commonsense that its easier to cover up “spin” and “control” the investigations and their outcome when one agency is involved rather than 4!//Jeffrey

    That is your misplaced assumption if past records are relied on. There is a Chinese saying: hang cow head but sell dog meant. Effectiveness is not dependent on the number of agencies. Effectiveness is dependent on transparency and resolve in getting the truth which I find lacking.

  39. #39 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 12:31 pm

    If what I say about the reasons for 4 agencies is not true, rebut it, show why they are not plausible as the true reasons, and don’t say I am “eloquently” trying to fabricate the reasons. Its a cheap shot.// Jeffrey

    It shows you never read what i wrote. My post in #26 “It is so obvious; typically we form committees or attribute the responsibility to multiple-agencies and at the end no one really knows who is responsible for what. “

  40. #40 by flyer168 on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 12:38 pm

    Dear YB LKS,

    Error on one of the links… Correction…

    http://mapper.nndb.com/maps/525/000005510/

    Bilderberg Conference 2009 Participants and their connections

    Thomas Enders CEO of EADS….

    Cheers.

  41. #41 by frankyapp on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 12:54 pm

    My goodness having four bunch of bad people put together to investigate just one possible true thing ( Israeli in our midst ) is not only wasting tax payer’s money but also en-powering these baddies to covering up all the true evidence. I think YB Lim’s calling for a RCI is proper.

  42. #42 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 5:34 pm

    ///So if they knew the problem, what are they doing about it other than terminating the company’s services two years ago? Why nothing further was done until the issue was brought up again recently/// – Lim Kam Put #35

    Well like the jet engines stolen, they obviously didn’t think it was important enough to let the public know something that adversely affects their image. Obviously there’s intent to cover up but since public disclosure they have now to investigate. What has this got to do with what I posted??? I am not saying that now for sure they still don’t have intent to cover up. May be yes or may be no but there is a changed circumstances now that depends on the politics of relationship between Home Minister and police chief which has been a subject of speculation even by Kit.

    But even if one thinks its cover up what has cover up got to do with the issue of appointing 4 agencies facilitating an investigation that I have given a reason for each of the 4 to be involved?

    You say 4 help to obfuscate better cover up ??? Refer to #37 “typically we form committees or attribute the responsibility to multiple-agencies and at the end no one really knows who is responsible for what”.

    This does not make sense at all.

    What “typically”??? Which case in the past have they formed multiple (4) agencies to simultaneously investigate one matter so as to obfuscate so that in the end no one really knows WHO is responsible???

    Lingam Video clip, Altantuya, A Kugan, loss of fighet engines – which case, cite to me that they have many of 4 agencies probing simultaneously one matter that led to no one was responsble? Don’t simply make sweeping statements!

    On why you don’t make sense – refer to your statement in #35 “effectiveness is not dependent on the number of agencies…but is dependent on transparency and resolve in getting the truth”.

    Nobody disputes your statement of the obvious.

    Of course effectiveness of investigation and disclosure depends on intent and not number of agencies but what is being pointed out here is that if the intent is to cover up (as is often suspected) then that intent will comparatively be better achieved/facilitated by having one than multiple agencies investigating it. Its trite that its easier to control the cover up when 1 than 4 agencies are involved. The risks of leaks of the nature in TBH case (where anonymous MACC officers write anonymous letter to RPK of what happened) are greater when more people/agencies than 1 are involved investigating something intended to be covered up.

    How could something so obvious be argued about, which is what you’re doing? Can you cite which instance in the past where cover up leading to no one is responsble being facilitated by multiple agencies being assigned to investigate same matter (in the manner as is now proposed by HH?) What are talking about?

  43. #43 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 5:55 pm

    TBH’s case, how many agencies are involved? MACC, Police, the Coroner and the Inquiry and now what happen? Even Porntip may not want to come anymore. In fact, the need to solicit the opinion of a foreign expert in this case is enough indication of the state of affairs in this country. Why are people so dissatisfied? For you, if 4 agencies are involved, the confidence and transparency of the investigation would increase. This is your opinion, it is not a fact.

    What i have in mind above is more than criminal investigations. For contracts and projects, usually the government will set up committees – steering committees, technical committees, tender committees etc, and at the end when fiasco happens, you can’t really pinpoint who is the culprit. I am telling you this is typical.

    Look Jeffrey, I am getting tired arguing with you. Never mind you write whatever and I shall comment whenever I deemed fit. Let others read. But always remember this saying: You hang a cow head to sell dog meat.

  44. #44 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 6:05 pm

    ///If you have an agenda and continue to write dishonestly, you can’t expect others to remain quiet and letting you have a field day….You are dishonest because you subtlety tried to undermine the cause of opposition…/// Lim Kam Put.

    Lim kam Put –
    This is a typical cheap shot below the belt : you do not address the rationality and reasons of positions I take instead you focus on motives imputed by you simply by reason that you disagree with what I said.

    This is a typical example of attacking the messenger (based on his imputed motives) instead of the merits/demerits of the message hoping that the demerits of the message will be assumed by all or easier soild to all by discrediting the credibility of the messenger bringing the message. This is a very dishonest way of arguing/dicussing issues.

    To compound your dishonesty of attacking the Messenger instead of Message you further resort to use and challenge of only selective postings of mine without regard to the rest throughout these years I’ve made over many subjects [as I mentioned in #32].

    In your hearts of hearts you know what I say is true.

    How could any one have any positive impression of what you say when you evince a total unfairness, a dishonesty and lack of integrity in these aspects in the course of your postings here (not to mention your other abusive words)????

  45. #45 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 6:14 pm

    You know what, Jeffrey: this is what we may get at the end of this investigation:

    Yes, four different agencies have investigated this case and they are all in agreement that government did not suffer any loss, there was no Israeli link and the security of the nation was no compromised. Yes four agencies were involved and there was nothing, so we should put to rest this case, you people.

    By the way, how many agencies/consultants (commissioned by the government) were involved in the investigation of PKFZ and till today what have we got to show? Yes, only some scapegoats were charged in court and that also may come to nothing (want to wager with me?).

  46. #46 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 6:18 pm

    ///TBH’s case, how many agencies are involved? MACC, Police, the Coroner and the Inquiry and now what happen?/// – Lim Kam Put

    This is not true. The Inquest – like the Court – is the adjudicating institution. Only the Police were officially involved in the investigation on behlaf of the Public (though MACC – not HH – did say it would conduct its own internal investigation to satisfy it ownself onn what happened. This is hardly an relevant example for you to say “typically”. You should know that if you have any intellectual honesty about what you argue here.

    And your other statement – “if 4 agencies are involved, the confidence and transparency of the investigation would increase. This is your opinion, it is not a fact” – again I did not say that confidence and transparency will increase. I say that if intent is to cover up, its easier to control that cover up without increased risks of leaks when 1 (lesser) instead of 4 (more) agencies are simultaneously directed to investigate the same matter.

    More agencies means more greater chances of more different facts will emanate from each of the multiple agencies as compared to one agency that can easier be made to present one set of skewed facts (for cover up). It is as trite and simple as that, so don’t twist what I said….You should know this than argue it if you have any intellectual honesty about what you say here.

  47. #47 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 6:20 pm

    Jeffrey, don’t be too harsh to yourself and me. There were in many occasions I do agree with you and in fact praised you. The reason why I have to challenge you is many take your comments seriously and therefore it must be subjected to some scrutiny.

  48. #48 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 6:26 pm

    Whether PKFZ or this case of ex Israelis agents in IT consultant in Police H’Quarters, the number of agencies investigating will depend on whether the matter investigated affects the purview of the particular agency. So if the matter investigated affects many agencies then more agencies will be involved in investigation necause it affects them.

    This has nothing to do with with purposely involving more agencies to obfuscate so as to deliberately cause the investigation to lead to no where, the truth disappearing and no one ultimately named as responsible, as is put forward here that i argue against.

    For cover up – and if cover up is the overarching purpose – its always better to involve less than more agencies investigating for reasons of control. This is obvious.

  49. #49 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 6:26 pm

    You are splitting hair: if four agencies would result is less likelihood of cover up, is that not the same as being more transparent and more confident with the result of the investigation.

  50. #50 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 6:34 pm

    Jeffrey, we even have consultants commissioned by the government that dare not even release the findings unless they are protected from law suits. What does this tell you, Jeffrey? What investigation and what findings?

  51. #51 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 6:38 pm

    ///The reason why I have to challenge you is many take your comments seriously and therefore it must be subjected to some scrutiny/// – Lim kam Put

    How honest is this statement when instead of debating on merits/demerits of message you attack the messenger by imputing dishonesty and motives of the Messenger by saying that I “subtlety tried to undermine the cause of opposition”???

    Woe betides the Opposition if the only comments here from its supporters is to agree with and support whatever they say or do without regard to anything else. Is it your friend who never criticise you when you’re wrong? Be honest : who was it 3 days before the defection of Perak Kataks leading to eventual fall of Perak State govt who warned Kit of that prospect here in this Blog? Its all in the archives, you can ask Godfather because he would remember best – for he argued with me on that issue extensively – why would I do that if I had secret agenda to undermine the Opposition?

  52. #52 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 6:39 pm

    And Jeffrey, we even have RCI on Lingam tape, what happened? Is one RCI equal to 4 agencies or not, Jeffrey?

    I am agitated because I know you are not that naive and stupid, that worries me!

  53. #53 by limkamput on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 6:43 pm

    Jeffrey, my records showed i have in many occasions criticized PR and DAP in the past. And if there are reasons and occasions in the future, I will do the same, trust me. And if you disagree with my criticism, please let me know.

  54. #54 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 6:46 pm

    ///if four agencies would result is less likelihood of cover up, is that not the same as being more transparent and more confident with the result of the investigation?///

    It is not the same. And its not splitting hairs. Less likelihood of cover up – means cover up will not be efficient especially when there’s higher risk of different agencies giving their respective findings contradictory to one another. To preempt contradiction one agency with one set of findings eliminate that risk. It does not mean more agencies imply more “transparent and more confidence with the result of the investigations”. More agencies only implies greater problems in cover up than it otherwise will be if only 1 agency were involved.

  55. #55 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 6:55 pm

    //my records showed i have in many occasions criticized PR and DAP in the past// – but did I accuse you of undermining Opposition’s Cause?

    Ultimately it is more important to say the truth, or what we think is the truth, whether that ends up criticising or praising any side Opposition or Ruling Coalition.

    This is pro Malaysian cause transcending partisan political positions. The reason is because ultimately the country can never pick up with electorate who are ignorant : even if Opposition takes over it can be as bad as the present govt if electorate were ignorant and give their votes unwisely without concern of or ability to discern truth from falsehood. So only the truth, and a practice and dedicatuon to embrace it will redeem this place starting from grass roots. Its better for one to say the truth as it is whether that favours or disfavours any political side. Anyone not happy with that can lump it.

  56. #56 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 11 April 2010 - 6:59 pm

    //Is one RCI equal to 4 agencies or not, Jeffrey?

    To me it is one agency investigating Lingam and others implicated. It recommended further invetigations presumably by police. As far as I am concerned, no police investigations started or are known started.

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