RCI on illegal immigrants in Sabah – substantive motion to overrule Robert Kiandee’s decision

I have faxed notice to the Speaker, Tan Sri Pandikar Amin to move a substantive motion to review and overrule the decision of Deputy Speaker Datuk Ronald Kiandee in disallowing me from moving an amendment to the Motion of Thanks for the Royal Address yesterday in order to establish a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the 30-year problem of illegal immigrants in Sabah, reducing Sabahans into a minority in their own homeland.

My substantive motion reads:

“That under Standing Order 43 the House reviews the decision of Deputy Speaker YB Datuk Ronald Kandee in disallowing MP for Ipoh Timor YB Lim Kit Siang from moving an amendment to the Motion of Thanks for the Royal Address on Thursday, 22nd May 2008 and resolves that the decision of the Chair was wrong and misconceived as it is contrary to parliamentary conventions and practices in Malaysia and the Commonwealth.”

As a substantive motion under S.O. 43 shall not require more than two days’ notice, this means that it should be able to be debated by the Dewan Rakyat next week.

In the first parliamentary meeting after the 1982 general election, the first of the five general elections under the premiership of Tun Dr. Mahathir, I had moved an amendment to the Motion of Thanks for the Royal Address in the Dewan Rakyat on 12th October 1982.

The amendment, adding to to the Motion of Thanks, was to include the following:

“And noting the grave law and order problem created by the influx of illegal Indonesian illegal immigrants causing armed robberies and murders, URGES the government to crack down on the illegal Indonesian immigrants by estsblishing a Special Task Force III (Indonesian Illegal Immigrants) to stop the influx of illegal Indonesian immigrants.”

The amending motion to the Motion of Thanks was accepted by the Speaker at the time, Datuk Mohamed Zahir Ismail, who went on to be the longest-serving Parliament Speaker for 22 years from 1982 to 2004.

The amending motion was defeated in a voice vote on 13rd October 1982 after a debate.

In the Indian Parliament, there would be scores of amendments to the Motion of Thanks to the Presidential Address every year.

Robert Kiandee cannot be more wrong when he said that it was not proper “tidak sopan” to amend the Motion of Thanks, as it is universally accepted parliamentary practice to amend Motion of Thanks for the Address by the head of state, as it is a debate on the government’s policy for the coming year, allowing for any policy proposal to be raised, whether in speeches or by way of amending motions.

Otherwise, there would be no need for the Dewan Rakyat to spend 12 days to debate the Royal Address, with 7 days for debate by MPs and 5 days for Ministers’ winding-up, as all that the MPs and Ministers should do is to stand up to express thanks to the Yang di Pertuan Agong for the Royal Address – which could be done in a matter of a few minutes each!

  1. #1 by max2811 on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 4:45 pm

    If they were to kick out all the IIs in Sabah, UMNO would lose Sabah. I don’t think this problem would ever be solved unless PR rules the country.

  2. #2 by limkamput on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 4:49 pm

    Hello, MPs, Speaker and Deputy Speaker from Sabah,
    Please note the problem associated with illegal immigrants in Sabah is not the sole prerogative of Sabah leaders to resolve. It is a national issue because blue IC holders from Sabah can eventually go to any part of Malaysia. The MPs from Peninsula Malaysia, especially those from the opposition, have every locus standi to participate in this issue. You people have allowed the problem to fester for too long. What make us think that it is going to be any different this time? So please don’t say that “we don’t want others to say it for us. We will put in our own motion”. That is all another bs. For more detail visit:limkamput-nincompoop.blogspot.com/

  3. #3 by lew1328 on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 4:50 pm

    Greetings! YB

    I think you may want to BCC the copy to the Royal Family if the Sabahan Speaker rejects your faxed copy again.

    Best regards.

  4. #4 by Jeffrey on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 5:45 pm

    You should proceed. It is an important issue. According to report of New Sabah Times 20th May, 2008, SAPP president Datuk Seri Panglima Yong Teck Lee said he believed that the Sabah MPs would give the matter serious consideration, if you raised it, because it was such an important issue in Sabah.

  5. #5 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 6:25 pm

    We just lost an Island to Singapore.

  6. #6 by Godfather on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 6:31 pm


    Does it surprise you that we lost an island to Singapore ? With these bunch of incompetents in charge, we stand to lose a lot more than just a rocky outcrop.

  7. #7 by Godfather on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 6:33 pm

    Try we must, Kit, but we must be prepared for the standard excuses such as “irrelevant”, or “not urgent”.

  8. #8 by devilmaster on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 6:34 pm

    We just lost an Island to Singapore.

    This is a COURT. Not a kangaroo court. Bolehland must distinguish between a court and a kangaroo court. The court is presided by a judge and a kangaroo court by a kangaroo judge.

    Congratulations to Singapore.

  9. #9 by Godfather on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 6:35 pm

    It becomes clearer to the rakyat with each rejection of such important motions that the federal government needs to be changed wholesale. It is the only way.

  10. #10 by HaiHiung on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 6:45 pm

    Let see what other tricks these BN “people representatives” have up their sleeves to stop this motion. If it get through, a big victory for Sabahans thanks to Uncle Lim Kit Siang… on second thought, it’s such a sad victory, coz’ it takes DAP and not anyone of those Sabah MP’s table this motion… then again, it is to be expected, imagine the likes of Bung Mokhtar, don’t think he’d care to bring up such an important issues… too busy uttering bunkum.

  11. #11 by PSM on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 6:46 pm

    Limkamput…u r right! The fact that they have sat on this problems for years tells alot. And now they are telling the Opposition that this is an issue for the Sabah MP’s only?! Stupid Deputy Speaker! This is an issue for ALL MALAYSIANS.

  12. #12 by Godfather on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 6:52 pm


    Don’t be too quick to congratulate Singapore. The reports suggest that Singapore won Pedra Branca, the size of a football field on which the lighthouse sits, while Bolehland won two rocky outcrops.

    The mainstream press tomorrow will report that Bolehland actually won the case against Singapore because we got two pieces of rock, but Singapore got only one. This could be the spin of the 4th floor boys.

  13. #13 by Xiao He on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 6:58 pm

    Mr Lim,
    I’ve just read the Hansard of yesterday’s sitting.. I fully support ur substantive motion for a review of the deputy speaker’s decision of not allowing ur amendment to the motion of thanks.. There is indeed no reason at all for him to reject ur amendment even without given u the chance to table it, what more when he said “tidak berkaitan” and “tidak sopan”..

    Having said that, let just see whether the Speaker Pandikar Amin will allow this motion of yours on monday..

  14. #14 by Xiao He on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 7:00 pm

    Mr Lim,
    not to forget that perhaps BN, UMNO and AAB were too afraid that what if your amendment yesterday was to “accidentally” passed through in dewan rakyat.. There is fear in them..

  15. #15 by undergrad2 on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 7:27 pm

    “The amending motion to the Motion of Thanks was accepted by the Speaker at the time, Datuk Mohamed Zahir Ismail, who went on to be the longest-serving Parliament Speaker for 22 years from 1982 to 2004.” KIT

    Apparently the present Speaker is from another planet!

  16. #16 by myint3 on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 7:45 pm

    The present speaker is overwhelmed by the honour of being appointed lah. So, he is eager to please his master lah.

  17. #17 by NotProudToBeMalaysian on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 8:29 pm

    Scandal after scandal and issues after issues, I find it hard to believe that the lives of Malaysian will ever improve in this future.
    With the present political situation and the younger generations of Umnoputras growing, I could forsee that the future of Malaysia will be doom.
    More corruption were to tend to occur and with so many of these big figures involved, I’m sure that Malaysia’s economy will plunge deeper into a crisis.
    Ringgit will further devalue as prices of goods will soar even higher.
    More crimes will occur as more people will find it hard to adapt to their lives.
    The Chinese mostly were be the victim and the favourite target of the Mat Rempit.
    The opposition will never be able to change the scenario as Umno will always be ready to take any challenge to defend their position even to the extend of killing.
    More and more members of the Umno are getting to be extremist type and I believe more could even become racist.
    Therefore, I’ve decided to leave this country for good and I’m selling all my properties now as a preparation.
    The szechuan earthquake have open up my sight and I now realised that China is the best hope for my family’s future.
    I find that the present China is no longer the past China and I was really touch by the Chinese goverment for their love and care to its people during this past few days.
    Unlike the present ruling Malaysian government here who are big bullies to the people, I could not dare to think of what’s in store for us then.
    I do believe that in another 5 to 10 years time, the chinese in China were be even richer than us Malaysian and I’ve therefore decided to invest there.
    Either way, I need not have to worry anymore about the future here.
    I do believe that after the szechuan earthquake, we chinese will be truly united as one family and I too will be truly proud to be one.
    This might be my last thread here and in future, if there is oppurtunities, I’ll try to to relate to you about my life in China.
    Anyway! I wish you all, especially to the malaysian chinese and the Pakatan rakyat, a success in championing for the rights of all malaysian.

    Not Proud To Be Malaysian but Proud To Be Chinese!

    Bye for now!!!

  18. #18 by miketan142 on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 9:00 pm

    Good bye Not Proud To Be Malaysian.
    Anyway Malaysia don’t need you who are not proud to be a malaysian. I assume you are not born here ?
    I am a ethnic chinese but I support Malaysia when we play china in the recent Thomas cup because this is my country.
    For someone who see richness only in monetary terms, I think china fits you best.

  19. #19 by Vidya Young on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 9:22 pm


    The decision is entirely yours of course. Where you chose to live, is your prerogative. But to move on the basis of one “ground shaking” incident, speaks volumes about you.

    My advice, do not relinquish your Malaysian passport. You might just need it.

  20. #20 by undergrad2 on Friday, 23 May 2008 - 10:05 pm

    “Therefore, I’ve decided to leave this country for good and I’m selling all my properties now as a preparation.” NotProud

    Dear NotProud,

    Please keep us updated on your progress in your new home. You may feel like burning the Malaysian flag and throw away your Malaysian passport but I suggest you don’t. I still have mine and I still proudly show my nation’s flag even on Veterans’ Day and on every other occassion I so choose to do. Even my car plate has the name of the state I come from.

    Never forget your roots.

  21. #21 by limkamput on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 12:18 am

    I think there is no need to shout about if one is leaving this country for good. Whether we like it or not, it is still our country. Today you have somewhere else to go, you may want to talk big a bit. But what about those who have no opportunity to go elsewhere. What about those who want to stay here but at the same time want to make this a better place. I think the focus should be for all of us Malaysians to make this place of ours a better place for all. Of course you can choose to go, but there is no need to curse and shout about. Surely, Malaysia has provided you livelihood and saving and therefore the capability to venture abroad. Please don’t be so gung-ho lah.

  22. #22 by Killer on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 12:23 am

    Well Mr / Ms Not Proud To be Malaysian

    It would certainly no loss to Malaysia if you finally leave (assuming you are telling us the truth). In fact I would be glad to extend any assistance required to hasten and smoothen your departure.

  23. #23 by lchk on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 12:50 am

    Killer posted:

    “It would certainly no loss to Malaysia if you finally leave (assuming you are telling us the truth). In fact I would be glad to extend any assistance required to hasten and smoothen your departure.”

    Since you are so full of kind assistance, go and help the Sabahans you feel so much for.

  24. #24 by bernadette on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 2:06 am

    aiyo! one more leaving. at this rate non-malays would be only 10% of the total population come 2050.

  25. #25 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 5:12 am

    Well Mr/Mrs. killer:

    You are consistently Inconsistent.

    Your claims and your admissions are faulty.

    How do expect credibility to the case you put forward when you keep changing your submissions.


    killer is DEFINITELY not hired by YB Rembau. killer is just trying his best to impress for an employment with KJ . i read that you wanted to be on the payroll. i can arrange that for you. i know more than you.

  26. #26 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 5:38 am

    Dear Not Proud to be Malaysian,

    wishing you and family all the best.

    However, there are Malaysians that will remain in Malaysia to continue to make it better. I am not leaving.

    confession time.

    if you scroll the postings and the attentions provided for killer, it makes you feel high. you are still suffering AIDS ( ATTENTION INTENSITY DEVOID SYNDROME ).

  27. #27 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 5:45 am


    please note that i have never call you names. i want you to engage (in this open forum) with me and substantiate your claims as i will substantiate mine. that was your request right ?

    you still owe devilmaster an apology.
    it takes a man to make a mistake, but a greater man to admit one.

    show us you are one. i am waiting.

  28. #28 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 5:55 am

    serious offer.
    we can have a round table conference and you can choose whichever corner you are comfortable. limkamput can be the moderator. ( this limkamput is not biased ).

  29. #29 by bernadette on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 8:16 am

    anybody who calls uncle kit an opportunist is a bad choice for a moderator.

  30. #30 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 8:35 am

    What do you want done with all the illegal aliens in the country? Put them on buses and in sampans and send them across the border which may be just a jungle path without a fence? They will be back the next day selling counterfeit DVDs and smuggled kereteks in pasar malams.

    Furthermore, you’re talking of some two million or more in West and East Malaysia.

    Migration both legal and illegal, is a fact of life. History is about waves of migration of people across borders which are man-made.

    We have NotProudToBeMalaysian now migrating to China. He is just one of some one million or more Malaysians migrating on a tourist visa and overstaying in their adopted countries. In Sabah they just walked across. I don’t think the government knows how many walked across the jungle paths and across streams over the years – not that anyone is taking count.

    Today’s illegals are tomorrow’s citizens.

  31. #31 by limkamput on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 9:16 am

    undergrad2, migration, if allowed, should be orderly and controlled. Otherwise it creates chaos and destroys the social fabric of a society. I don’t want to fill form in Spanish the next time I apply for US Visa, get it?

  32. #32 by limkamput on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 9:19 am

    Adam, don’t count on me to be the moderator. I can’t sit at the same table with him. Godfather is the better choice. He is “more” unbias. Undergad2 would be the best.

  33. #33 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 9:27 am

    you still owe YB Lim Kit Siang an apology.

  34. #34 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 9:30 am

    if you have called YB Lim as an Opportunist than you are naughty.

  35. #35 by limkamput on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 9:44 am

    Adam, I did not. I don’t why the moderator has to delete even my explanation. Someone accused Sdr Lim for being an opportunist. What I said was something like that: Even if he is an opportunist, it is for a worthy cause…..”, something like that. But I think I missed the word “if” so it become “Even he is an opportunist….”. But if one reads in context, it should be quite clear except you know the A** HEADS who purposely want to twist and turn.

  36. #36 by Godfather on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 10:01 am

    Me ? Moderator ? You gotta be kidding. Killer has the typical arrogance that one would like to slap in the face to bring him back to the real world. He and his UMNO kind have the standard response to anyone who complains about Bolehland – go somewhere else. The betterment of Bolehland is not in his vocabulary – UMNO is correctly labelled as U Must Not Object.

  37. #37 by Godfather on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 10:03 am

    Ever wonder why UMNO’s slogan is


  38. #38 by junichiro on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 12:27 pm

    Dear YB Lim,

    It is indeed a sad day for you and for us Sabahan.

    Dear all Sabahan MPs and specially you Kiandee… if this issue is not relevant or not important, when else will we resolve this issue?

    All the talks from all Sabah MP recently proove to be political nonsense talk only.

    If you really care to settle this issue, I challenge you to table a motion by next week to discuss this issue in Parliments, Sabahan trust and hope you would fight for this but it seems you all never really care… or is it that you scared of your “boss” who ever that might be.

  39. #39 by PSM on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 1:32 pm

    NotProudToBe Malaysian, if you want to go…please do. Not necessary to preach to those of us who are willing to stay & fight for what we believe. Your statement of “not proud to be Malaysian but proud to be Chinese” smells just like the UMNOputras (saying things about Malays only & forgetting that we are all Malaysians).
    A year ago, who would have thought that the Opposition would be able to deny the BN a 2/3rds Majority?!
    A year from now or maybe 4 years from now, who knows the Opposition (PR) will be able to from the Federal Government & the BN will just a bad dream!

  40. #40 by Killer on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 7:24 pm

    Well Froggies

    I can’t recall all that devilmaster was ranting on about. If that has something to do with me being Realworld then I assure you that I am not Realworld. I am sure Admin here can easily verify this.

    And I am still waiting for YB Kit to reply my questions to him.I had told him I would gladly apologise to him if he was able to provide proof to the issues I had raised.

  41. #41 by Killer on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 7:39 pm


    I agree with you that this illegal immigrants problem is a tough issue to handle. Your comment on the earlier thread too was spot-on.

    This human migration from poor to richer countries is hard to stem and not many (any) nations have successfully tackled the problem.
    Bigger the landmass and longer the border, harder it is to control. Being an open country (with visa free entry for many nations) has only made the situation worse.

    I think even the US is unable to resolve this issue despite spending billions in fortifying the border protection. The problem seems to be accute on the west coast. I recall that you are residing now in the New York state. Perhaps you can share your views on this.

  42. #42 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 7:45 pm


    lets make it more interesting.

    venue: Shangri la hotel putrajaya. Prescint 1.( next to ISTANA ). lobby entrance turn left to business centre.
    time n date : u decide
    moderator : u decide

    agenda : what you and me can do for Sabahans.

    how’s that mate. ?

  43. #43 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 7:54 pm


    lets stay focus. dont stray.
    you made lots of claims , that you know more than YB LIM.
    i claim i know more than you. period.

    you wanted to be engaged, i hereby suggest an engagement in a proper forum.

  44. #44 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 9:28 pm

    “I agree with you that this illegal immigrants problem is a tough issue to handle.”

    Migration (both legal and illegal) is affecting the EU countries, influencing public policies in ways not thought of in recent times, forever changing its political and cultural landscape. It is public knowledge that this last wave of migration is different from past years since most of them come from Muslim countries. With these recent waves of migration come serious socio-economic problems and the issues of integration – or assimilation depending on one’s perspective.

    In the U.S. there are some 20 plus million illegal aliens mostly from South America and Mexico (nobody really knows the exact number but judging from the DV Lottery runs by the government, every year some 11 million applications are received from residents and non-residents, and from other countries wanting to become permanent residents of the U.S. out of which only 50,000 applications are approved).

    The issue of porous borders to the south with Mexico and to the north with Canada takes on new significance in the light of 9/11. Otherwise it is an issue which is raised during Presidential elections, in an attempt to legalize some of these illegal aliens so they could then vote for the Party that seeks to push the much needed legislation.

    The fact remains that in the U.S. illegal immigration has been feeding industries here with the much needed cheap labor – just like in the case of Malaysia. If not for the cheap labor from South American countries and Mexico, many factories would have closed down. Indeed factories are closing down as we speak as outsourcing continues. I remember the first time I visited the U.S. in the early 80s I was shocked to find there’s hardly anything made in the USA. Just to name a few, clothing and footwear are made under license from Indonesia, Philippines and Hong Kong, Taiwan – and computer and computer disk drives from Malaysia.

    In today’s Presidential elections, the issue of illegal immigration is one issue both Democrats and Republicans would like to avoid if they could because they know it is a sensitive issue with ordinary working class Americans whose wages are being depressed by the influx of cheap labor. But otherwise both know that cheap labor is needed by corporate America if the country is to remain competitive with the rest of the world. There is a lot of hypocrisy there.

    In Malaysia, I think the Malaysian government just doesn’t know what to do. No comprehensive studies and no comprehensive plans – orrect me if I am wrong. In the U.S. it is looked upon as “broken borders” but in Malaysia it is more like there is no border!

  45. #45 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 9:48 pm

    dear undergrad2.

    your last paragraph refers.

    The Malaysian Government knew what they DID.

    your para 5 refers.

    Cheap labours are plenty in Vietnam and even China.
    One need not be fluent in English to handle an assembly line for clothings or furnitures. Check FDI for labor intensive industries.

  46. #46 by Killer on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 10:45 pm

    Dear Adam

    My first and last reply to you :

    Let’s be reminded of this. We are Malaysians first and our allegiance to political parties should be way down the list of priorities. I am not here to be yet another cheerleader to YB Kit but to make sure that he is representing the interests of those people who voted for him and his party. If you have an accute need to be his chief cheerleader, please go ahead.

    I have neither time nor interest to debate with you. Most of the people here hardly have anything of substance to say other than vent their frustration by mouthing irrational,illogical and childish comments or defend to death the policies of DAP and YB Kit.

    Thank god we still have people like undergrad2 and Jeffrey whom I have great respect despite the occasional differences of opinion.

  47. #47 by Killer on Saturday, 24 May 2008 - 11:16 pm


    I travel to the US quite frequently and to various regions. One of the trends that I noted in the last several years is the acceptance of Spanish as a sort of 2nd language. Many of the big stores now carry signs and also make announcements in Spanish. I would not be surprised if I found this in the West Coast but I this seems to be prevalent even in the East Coast (in places such as Manhattan, Long Island, Boston,New Jersey,etc). What’s your take on this ?

    Talking about EU, interestingly your views were exactly the same that my European friends say. In EU the economic integration has almost eliminated political borders and this has opened the door for migrant workers from East Europe to the West. While this might have macro benefits that so loved by economists, but the microeconomic and social level the impacts are exactly like we face in Malaysia. The wages have been stagnant or pushed downward. The social costs have been heavy and there is a significant erosion of moral and social values. There is a great worry on the loss of national and cultural identity.

    In the Scandinavian countries the issues are even more worrying. As you had said, the migration had changed the social and cultural landscape. A friend from Finland was lamenting how the country now being plagued with higher level of crimes and socio-religious tension with the influx of migrants from poor countries.

    In Malaysia, I the issue is quite different. Some of the problems, to be fair is beyond the control of the government. In some cases these migrants have been allowed in due to humanitarian reasons (Myanmar, Acheh, Mindanao,etc). In other cases, the government has the direct responsibility for the mess. Their lack of enforcement resulted in millions of illegals flooding in. Political and economic reasons were allowed to take priority and some in power conveniently chosen to ignore the issue. By the time they woke up the problem was so serious that it was threatening the national security.

    Of course, most people here are blissfully unaware of the national security issues that these migrants caused in Sabah (and I am not about to share it here). But by the time steps were taken, it was rather too late. In the peninsular, apart from the crimes that these immigrants commit, there are far more serious security issues are being posed by them. Some of the issues that can be discussed here are for example, the drug-smuggling and gun-running by the Acheh folks, terrorist activities by Indonesians, organised crime activities by Indians,etc.

  48. #48 by lchk on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 12:09 am

    Killer posted:

    “Most of the people here hardly have anything of substance to say other than vent their frustration by mouthing irrational,illogical and childish comments or defend to death the policies of DAP and YB Kit.”

    I am not sure of if this blanket accusation can be applied to most of the people here but it definitely defines you to a tee. Refer to your statements regarding to Malaysian quality of living, DAP Penang leaders, “I know more than Kit but I can’t prove it” and a bunch of half-baked lies.

    On top of it all, you blatantly accuse Kit of only attending to the problem of illegal immigrants in Sabah now when Kit has clearly REBUTTED your accusation by stating that he has done so for the past 3 decades!

    You are no gentleman – you refuse to apologise for that BLATANT SLANDER of Kit’s character which means you are a hypocrite and a slimeball.

  49. #49 by lchk on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 12:12 am

    Killer posted:

    “I am not here to be yet another cheerleader to YB Kit but to make sure that he is representing the interests of those people who voted for him and his party.”


    You are here to SLANDER Kit and to serve your UMNO masters’ wishes as a cybertrooper.

    Prove us otherwise then.

  50. #50 by cheng on soo on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 12:27 am

    This killer do not know geograhy well.
    Otherwise, he would not place, Manhantan, Long Island, Boston, New Jersey together, he don’t know whether, it is name of state, city, district, Island etc
    Also, Myanmar, Acheh, Mindanao, (country, city, province, island etc)
    Anyway, he acknowledge illegal pose very serious problems, then, may one ask, why BN govt allow it to deteriorate to present stage, sleeping for past 25 years??

  51. #51 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 2:13 am

    “I travel to the US quite frequently and to various regions. One of the trends that I noted in the last several years is the acceptance of Spanish as a sort of 2nd language. Many of the big stores now carry signs and also make announcements in Spanish. I would not be surprised if I found this in the West Coast but I this seems to be prevalent even in the East Coast …” killer

    I live in a quaint Hispanic town by the sea from where I could see Manhattan from afar. Everybody in this town speaks Spanish though they can speak English. Spanish is the preferred language so to speak. Do not look down on the Hispanics. They look down on us Asians. Spanish is taught in schools but it is not compulsory. Spanish has always been a second language though whites generally don’t want to have to learn to speak the language. But that is fast changing. Many are beginning to learn Mandarin and Arabic. If you’re bilingual you’d find it easier to get a job – even in the east coast.

    I do not know if you are aware that some Hispanics are classified as Whites i.e. Hispanic Whites according to the U.S. Bureau of Census. They look much like the non-Hispanic Whites.

    Talking about racism, in case you guys think of escaping racism by coming here, don’t! Racism is very much alive in the U.S. The U.N. has last week accused the U.S. of racism.

    Let’s just say it is more tolerable and less degrading in Malaysia because it involves people of the same broad ethnic group – Asians.

  52. #52 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 5:30 am


    I am still waiting for you to apologise to YB Lim Kit Siang.

    (you who claim to know more).
    (you who claim to be able to hasten and smoothen the departure of notproudtobemalaysian.)

  53. #53 by lopez on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 7:48 am

    not only in sapah and sahawak, got illegal immigrants, dem fellas already in peninsula , check dem out claimed to be skillful in construction work and , claiming hometown from sapah or sarawah, …. hey got IC one you know.

    Case close no threat here,……hehahe
    Motion pass, next please….

  54. #54 by Killer on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 9:34 am


    The observation that I noted was the usage of Spanish signs and even PA announcements in many large malls and stores. This was only recently introduced I believe. Does this mean that the Latins have moved from being illegals to the mainstream and middleclass ? The migrants were always there but this shift got me thinking if there is a slow but significant shift in demographics and social status of the Latinos ?

    And yes, I agree about the racism. This has recently risen especially with the outsourcing of jobs to Asia. Many years ago people were friendlier but now folks can be downright hostile. I found it to be worse in smaller towns.

  55. #55 by Malaysian on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 11:01 am

    According to today Daily Express, Tuaran MP Datuk Wilfred Bumburing said it is not true that Sabah MPs were against the proposal to set up the RCI on illegal Immigrants. Bumburing, who is also UPKO Deputy President, said ” To say that the Sabah MPs reject the motion by DAP MP Lim Kit Siang is not corect at all as the House Speaker (Deputy Speaker Datuk Ronald Kiandee) rejected the motion and it had never been tabled.

    Bumburing was responded to the statement by Kimanis MP Anifah Aman that Sabah MPs were against the proposal to set up the RCI on Illegal Immigrants that was moved by Lim on Friday. “We, in UPKO believe the Royal Commission of Inquiry is the best way to takle the problem of iilegal immigrants in Sabah.” he said.

    Bumburing said he was equally surprised to learn through the media that Anifah is the new Sabah MP Barisan Nasional Backbenchers Club (BNBBC) Chairman.

    It clearly showed that UMNO and his dog PBS is the only party that against the move to seeting up the RCI on Illegal Immigrants in Sabah.

  56. #56 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 7:39 pm

    “The migrants were always there but this shift got me thinking if there is a slow but significant shift in demographics and social status of the Latinos ?” killer

    You’re right on the shift but not on the timing. This shift in demographics is not a recent phenomenon. Bear in mind that most of south west United States not too long ago belonged to Mexico. Some say with illegal immigration, the Mexicans are trying to re-claim what was once theirs! In fact Hispanic talk show hosts over the radio often refer to it as such – mostly in a lighter vein, of course. I don’t know if you have heard of ‘anchor babies’ a term used within the context of the discussion on illegal immigration. You have say a pregnant Mexican woman walking across the southern border and later giving birth to a son. That son is a U.S. citizen – following the principle of jus soli. And so the process continues. Coupled with the fact that the birth rate among Hispanics and Latinos is higher than that among non-Hispanic whites, in the year 2050, non-White Hispanic population of the United States will exceed that of the non-Hispanic White population. Some refer to this as the “browning of America”!

    President Sukarno of Indonesia during the Malaysia-Indonesian conflict in the early 60s accused Malaysia of being a neo-colonialist plot – and claimed Sarawak and Sabah as part of Indonesian territories, a claim not too dissimilar to the ‘claim’ by Mexicans say to California today (minus the ‘neo-colonialist plot’ slant of course). There are elements of truth to that claim. Wouldn’t you say?

    The Chinese in Sabah are relatively recent migrants to this part of the Indonesian Archipelago. Indonesian Chinese in neighboring Sulawesi are part of that same wave of migration.. The intermarrying between the Chinese and the natives in Southern Sulawesi has given rise to a new ‘race’ the Bugis who are seafarers or pirates who came to settle in Pahang and Johor.

    Today what we are seeing are waves of economic migrants – from Indonesian Kalimantan, encouraged by the Malay leadership in Kuala Lumpur as an hoc solution to its political problem and in an attempt to break the political impasse if you will – coming across to Sabah, much like what we are seeing in the south west of United States except that in the case of the United States, this is being resisted by its government.

    Today’s solution will be tomorrow’s problem.

  57. #57 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 7:58 pm

    Today whenever I read someone writes “We Sabahans” I can’t say I know what or whom the writer is referring to?? Is there such a thing, race or religious group as a “Sabahan” – or a Perakian or a Penangite for that matter? Is there such a thing as a typical Sabahan? Is the typical Sabahan a Christian?

    Whilst it is true the term “Perakian” does not generate the same kind of controversy and emotions as does “Sabahan” today, we need to be clear just who this “Sabahan” is.

  58. #58 by miketan142 on Sunday, 25 May 2008 - 8:43 pm

    Dear undergrad2,
    Correct me if I am wrong, in Sabah, it is the state before the country and whereas in peninsula it is country first
    In west malaysia, perakians or penangites normally refer to which part or the country one come from and the patriotism probably in interstate sports.

  59. #59 by bernadette on Monday, 26 May 2008 - 12:57 am

    spot on!!!

  60. #60 by rainbowseahorse on Tuesday, 27 May 2008 - 3:31 pm

    I wish everybody would stop addressing Sabah’s problem as the “illegal immigrant” issue because the problem is NOT the illegal immigrants but the problem of IMPORTED BUMIPUTRAS. Illegal immigrants are those living & working in Sabah without proper documents, and this problem is and will always be a major problem in Sabah given the vastness and very porous borders.
    The main focus which needs urgent attention is the problem of economic immigrants who, by virtue of their religion of Islam, automatically becomes “BUMIPUTRA” when they were issued IC & MyKad by unscrupulous individuals for monetary and political gains. By being classified as Bumiputras, these IMPORTED BUMIPUTRAS enjoyed all the BENEFITS accorded to any BUMIPUTRAS (as provided for by the Malaysian constitution) making them a potent force to reckon with among the real & original Sabah Bumiputras.
    Another problem that pops up with these IMPORTED BUMIPUTRAS comes in the form of “HARD CORE POOR” which the Malaysian government endeavored to eradicate. This takes away a large portion of the allocated money from the more deserving local Sabahan Hardcore poor.
    Understandably, the none-Bumiputras races in Sabah (notably the Chinese & Indians), who might be third generations or longer Sabahans, are EXTREMELY resentful and find it VERY DIFFICULT to accept the fact that these new economic immigrants have been accorded BUMIPUTRASHIP status by the Government. Effectively, these “IMPORTED BUMIPUTRAS” have became not only superior citizenship status over the none Bumiputras of Sabah, but also have the power to compete with the original & real Bumiputras in Sabah in all aspects of business which have been RESERVED for BUMIPUTRAS. The children of these “IMPORTED BUMIPUTRAS” completes with original Sabah Bumiputras for placements in schools, government scholarships, and eventually in the work place. Of course, government services such as medical facilities, social welfares, etc. are being utilized by these “IMPORTED BUMIPUTRAS” and their families.
    So, the URGENT problem in Sabah is NOT THE ILLEGAL immigrants, but the “IMPORTED BUMIPUTRAS”.

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