We Need An Intelligent Response to Islamophobia


By Farish A. Noor

The recent declaration made at the OIC summit that calls for Muslim nation-states to act in a concerted manner and to take legal action against any country, group or individual who deliberately attacks Islam is noteworthy for the seriousness of its intent; but falls short of providing us with a real solution to the problem of racism and prejudice disguised behind the banner of Islam-bashing.

For a start, one wonders if the arena of international law even allows states to take legal action against other actors and agents on such grounds; and one wonders what the modalities of such an action might be. But above all, we need to take a calm and rational distance from the problem itself and consider methods that will work and reject those that certainly won’t.

The problem, however, is this: How can Muslims react rationally and coolly to acts of provocation at a time when even the utterance of the mutest words of protest are deemed by some as the irrational outpourings of misguided pious grief instead? The worry that some of us share at the moment is how the Muslims of the world will react to the release of the film produced by Geert Wilders, the leader of the Dutch Freedom Party. Wilders is known in Holland as a maverick politician on the make, an ambitious demagogue whose tactics are as loud as they are crude. His decision to make a film on the life of the Prophet Muhammad was calculated to raise the political temperature in Europe at a time when Muslim-non-Muslim relations have hit an all time low. Unlike the murdered film director Theo van Gogh who was a left-leaning activist and long-time supporter of minority concerns (and who, incidentally, also defended the rights of Muslim migrants in Holland), Wilders is a far-right politician who is clearly appealing to the baser parochial and exclusive sentiments of white Dutch society.

It would be hypocritical, to say the least, that Wilders’ film which presents Islam as a religious system akin to Facism and which compares the Prophet Muhammad to Hitler was meant to bring the communities of Holland closer together.

But in reacting to the film the Muslim community worldwide would have to take into account some cautionary points:

For a start, Geert Wilders happens to be a single individual who happens to lead a relatively small (though growing) political movement. In no way can we say that his is the voice of mainstream Dutch society which has historically been critical of racist demagogues and hate-mongers in its midst. Furthermore it should be remembered that thousands of Dutch citizens have also been active supporters and defenders of the rights of Muslims elsewhere, and that there are hundreds of Dutch NGOs and citizens groups that have been actively campaigning for the political rights of the Palestinians and the people of Iraq during the recent Gulf War. In condemning Wilders for his racist rant, it is absolutely imperative that the Muslim communities of the world restrain from condemning Dutch society in toto, and Westerners in general.

Secondly it should be noted that any mode of protest has to be measured and has to reflect the true nature of the insult that is perceived. The concern of many Muslim intellectuals and leaders today is that as the protests against Wilders’ film grow across the planet, we will see yet another round of violent demonstrations accompanied by the now-familiar rhetoric of death threats and hate speeches. When will Muslims realise that reacting to racism and bigotry can only be effective when it is done from a higher moral ground, and not by responding to hate with hate?

To this end, we need to emphasise that Muslims will never occupy the higher moral ground as long as they do not learn to co-operate with other faith communities and realise that our lot is a common one, shared with the rest of humanity. It is therefore vital that any steps taken to respond to the film by Geert Wilders be inclusive and accommodating in character, and that Muslim leaders, intellectuals and activists reach out for support from other faith communities including Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and all those who are against all forms of racism and bigotry. Only then will Muslims give the impression that we are not an isolated, marginalised and parochial community driven primarily by our own exclusive sectarian interests.

Lastly, while responding to Wilders’ outlandish and repugnant misrepresentation of Islam and Muslims, Muslims also need to be honest enough to recognise the faults and errors in ourselves. To condemn racist non-Muslims who deliberately abuse Islam is one thing, but Muslims also need to do some proper in-house cleaning and recognise that not all is well is the house of Islam: Racism, sexism, corruption, nepotism and abuse of power remain pressing realities in so many Muslim countries today. Likewise the hate-discourse of the likes of Wilders can also be compared to the hate-discourse of many radically violent Muslim demagogues, who do deserve to be called Muslim Facists too.

Can this dilemma be resolved in time before we witness yet another round of Muslim-West antagonism as we did in the wake of the Muhammad cartoon controversy of 2004-2005? One will only know the answer to that question when the controversy has passed and the dust has settled. But one thing is for certain at this juncture: No resolution to the perennial problem of Islamophobia and Muslim-bashing can be reached as long as we react to such slander and bigotry with slander and bigotry of our own. One does not fight hate with hate; and an intelligent, universal, inclusive reaction to the problem of Islamophobia is perhaps the first step to finding a solution. Let us hope that Muslims will keep their cool this time round.

  1. #1 by LadyGodiva on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 6:36 pm

    We await with bated breath the response from the blog’s pseudo-intellectual cum political activist resident gatekeeper for his ‘intellectual’ response to a topic nobody else understood better than him!

  2. #2 by mycroft on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 6:56 pm

    Well let’s see.. No killing of Dutch people, no burning the Netherlands flag, no threatening Dutch businesses, no mass demonstrations with people threatening to firebomb Dutch owned houses and businesses. Easily said? Yes.. Easily done? I am not very sure about that myself.

  3. #3 by citizen on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 6:58 pm

    I think you are wanted Mr Lee.

  4. #4 by jetaime.f on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 7:04 pm

    citizen Says:
    Today at 18: 58.08 (3 minutes ago)

    I think you are wanted Mr Lee.

    ==================================================

    I don’t mean to be rude to anyone but, this is just classic….. ;) mwwaaaaa….sorry….

  5. #5 by Tickler on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 7:07 pm

    `Unlike the murdered film director Theo van Gogh …`

    Errr why was he murdered?

  6. #6 by jetaime.f on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 7:08 pm

    I know I know I should not be doing this but I can’t help it: “Oh where oh where can I find thee….I———–” :)…….with no bad intentions….

  7. #7 by jetaime.f on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 7:22 pm

    Farsh Noor: One does not fight hate with hate; and an intelligent, universal, inclusive reaction to the problem of Islamophobia is perhaps the first step to finding a solution.

    ===================================================
    Is rampant pasting of Islamic articles an intelligent solution? ….

  8. #8 by Tickler on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 7:26 pm

    Just a flutter, the Guardian`s take on bridging the gap:

    The Vatican has been holding secret talks with the Saudi Arabian authorities on building churches in Muhammad’s homeland, according to one of Pope Benedict’s most senior Middle East representatives. Archbishop Paul-Mounged El-Hashem said: “Discussions are under way to allow the construction of churches in the kingdom. We cannot forecast the outcome.”

    But, speaking to the news agency Agence France-Presse, the Lebanese prelate, the Pope’s envoy in the Gulf, added: “There are around three or four million Christians in Saudi Arabia, and we hope they will have churches.”
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/18/religion.saudiarabia

  9. #9 by Noor Aza Othman on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 7:31 pm

    Well, Farish, Muslim fascist and racists do exist; and this’s the problem! Look at the bloody Umno; shouting out Islam Hadhari-who-knows-what-it-means; whilst committing such barbarity towards everyone, especially non-Malay and non-Muslims! And when non-Muslims see how in the so-called “just” civilisation of Islam, women being stoned to death and Kurdish activists being murdered and tortured in Iran, thieves having their hands cut-off in Saudi, widespread honor killings and gang-rapes towards women in Pakistan and Afghanistan especially, the injustice of the Sharia “laws” including In Malaysia (It’s a great joke actually to call it laws, which are supposed to provide justice!); no wonder they are horrified by such hypocrisy! Why don’t the Muslim males protest intelligently, justly and fairly on all these barbarity committed by fellow Muslims I wonder? Muslim women have long protest but their voices are drowned as ever! Still a long way towards progressive and true modernity, the Islamic civilisation that is!

  10. #10 by Jeffrey on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 7:33 pm

    //…..we need to emphasise that Muslims will never occupy the higher moral ground as long as they do not learn to co-operate with other faith communities and realise that our lot is a common one, shared with the rest of humanity. It is therefore vital that any steps taken to respond to the film by Geert Wilders be inclusive and accommodating in character…// – Dr Farish Noor.

    Well, first thing first, won’t a good start to “learn to co-operate with other faith communities” and to give credence to the principle that “our lot is a common one, shared with the rest of humanity” is not to divide humanity to two broad classes – believers and “kafirs”, just like the best way to forge a common Malaysian identity is to not to divide and bifurcate Malaysians into the dichotomy between Bumiputra and Non Bumiputra, don’t you think so Dr Farish??

  11. #11 by RGRaj on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 7:42 pm

    Theo Van Gogh was murdered by a Muslim because he made a film showcasing Islamic violence. Just see the irony.

    And no, Saudi Arabia would not allow churces to be built. It’s a country where authorities seize & shred religious scriptures at the airport itself. Even private religious meetings in people’s homes are dealt with seriously. Also you can’t wear any of your religious symbols anywhere in Saudi Arabia.

    And you think they’re going to build a church? Dream on.

  12. #12 by Tickler on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 8:14 pm

    Well maybe this should be made universal too:

    Women in Saudi Arabia face a host of constraints. They are banned from driving, forced to cover from head to toe in public, prohibited from mixing with men other than relatives and prevented from travelling without written permission from their male guardian.
    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080318193232.nt2muglp&show_article=1

  13. #13 by Humanrace on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 8:23 pm

    1. The reality of the human race is that, on a normal distribution, a large of proportion of humans (maybe 20%) are vulnerable or are suffering from a wide range (from mild to serious) of mental illnesses. Example, 1 in a 1000 is a schizo or a psychopath. 80% of the innocent majority are psychological weak and gullible to blind influence.
    If you have 1 billion of followers, there would be 200! millions of followers with various degrees of psychological unstability.

    2. A religion must therefore ensure that its teachings be whiter than white, to ensure no one or group is given the opportunity to exploit any aspects of its holy book.
    A progressive religion is one that has zero defects or is progressing towards that target in ensuring that it is foolproof and no follower has any good reason to use (blindly or otherwise) his/her religion as a reason to ignorantly (driven by instincts) to create havoc to humanity.

    3. Buddhism is one good example of a religion, that do not have any teachings that enable anyone to offend or infringes on the rights of others, except to improve oneself spiritually. Even then, there are buddhists who think they are better that their fellow buddhists. (btw, i m not religious)

    4. Christianity has modulated and improve on it previous terror-laden old testament with, e.g. ‘love thy enemies’, ‘left cheek’, love, love, etc. . But there is still a lot of room for Christians to improve on its wariness and impeding of certain scientific developments that it ignorantly deems evil.

    5. The islamphobia smoke did not rise without ‘fire’. To eliminate islamphobia, i think islam should seriously look at it’s teachings and apply the principles in 1 & 2 above where applicable.

    6. Thus to improve on the effects of any religion, there are two variables that need to be reviewed and modify where necessary. One is the mind as in 1, and this must be transformed by actively shifting its psychological domination from limbic to prefrontal at the psychological & neural level.

    7. Any violent prone teachings that are vague, ambiquous need to be modified to be foolproof to violence. The reason is that, no amount of intellectual explanation can ever penetrate the already defective emotional minds of the gullibles and the mentally unstable.

  14. #14 by jetaime.f on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 8:32 pm

    Buddhism is not exactly a religion….

  15. #15 by digard on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 8:40 pm

    My excuses, and with all respect. I do consider your writings on the situation of Muslim minorities in continental Europe noteworthy. This being number 4 or 5, I wonder, though, why repeatedly in here? The best possible article submitted to the ‘wrong’ journal is off-topic.
    It also is a bad timing, now.
    But since you brought up the topic, you can hang the fruits for your temptation much lower than the murder of a Dutch director. Firstly, the corner stones need to be set: What does ‘attack on Islam’ mean? I have taken the liberty and retrieved the cartoons. And, sorry to say, if these are attacks on Islam that warrant a number of deaths and burning down of embassies, then help us God. And you, in your noble endeavour to find “an intelligent, universal, inclusive reaction”.

  16. #16 by Humanrace on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 9:11 pm

    <>

    Note Ninian Smart’s definition of a religion and it’s 7 dimension.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninian_Smart
    Buddhism fits that defintion and most definitions of ‘what is a religion’. God is not a compulsory element in the definition of religion.

  17. #17 by Godfather on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 9:15 pm

    Lady Godiva:

    We have limkamputphobia ? Can it not be cured with the right medications ?

  18. #18 by Godfather on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 9:24 pm

    There are double standards at play in the West. They rant and rave against Islamic fundamentalists, and threaten to invade Islamic lands and culture, but they hesitate to condemn or take legal action against people like Wilders under the guise of freedom of speech.

    People like Wilders know the repercussions of what they say, write or produce. By deliberating doing this, isn’t this an act of sabotage against those peaceloving people in his own country ?

    The only way Dutch embassies around the world are not going to be bombed, or Dutch tourists are not going to be kidnapped by equally misguided Islamists would be for the Western world to quickly distance itself from this act of madness and self-centredness.

  19. #19 by Godfather on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 9:26 pm

    “An eye for an eye leaves both parties blind.” Gandhi.

    Reminding myself of this tenet cures me of limkamputphobia, and I shall say no more about this phobia.

  20. #20 by Saint on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 10:21 pm

    Pointless to comment on an article about Islamophobia. Islam cannot change, and its laws and regulations are not acceptable to “to a just and fair society”. We just have to wait and see who breaks the “patience” line first.

  21. #21 by choonchoy on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 10:24 pm

    With all respects, and no hard feelings meant. Firstly, if you don’t want people to be afraid of you then don’t scare them. (Meaning don’t give reason to fear you.)

    Put yourself in the place of the Dutch people. After the Van Gogh incident should they fear Muslims more? Ayaan Hirsi Ali now has to have 24,7 protection. Are her fears are irrational?

    Secondly, read all 114 Surahs in the Holy Qu’ran, then ask youself this question. Should the kuffar/kaffir have anything to fear?

  22. #22 by limkamput on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 11:01 pm

    Godfather Says:
    “An eye for an eye leaves both parties blind.” Gandhi.
    Reminding myself of this tenet cures me of limkamputphobia, and I shall say no more about this phobia.

    The fact that you said the above is sufficient indication you have thrown Gandhi out of the window. Come on, you are not as great as you imagine.

  23. #23 by digard on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 11:05 pm

    “The only way Dutch embassies around the world are not going to be bombed, or Dutch tourists are not going to be kidnapped by equally misguided Islamists would be for the Western world to quickly distance itself from this act of madness and self-centredness.”

    Godfather should know that this is what they did:

    “Remarks by Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende on the announced Wilders film after cabinet meeting on the 29th of February
    (29 February 2008 / 22 Safar 1429)

    Statement made by the Netherlands Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende on the announced film “Fitna” which is made by a Dutch member of Parliament of an opposition party. The public statement was made after the meeting of the council of ministers on the 29th of February 2008 (22 Safar 1429)

    The Netherlands upholds the principles of freedom and respect. People deserve respect for what matters to them most, their beliefs and their identity. Constitutional liberties must be defended; extremism and terrorism must be resisted.

    At this moment none of us knows the content of the film that Mr Wilders has announced. Nevertheless, it is clearly eliciting exceptionally strong reactions. We condemn all threats, including those that have been made against Mr Wilders. We call on governments to uphold the principles of international law, such as the obligation it enshrines to protect foreign interests, nationals and businesses.

    At the same time, it is our responsibility to make clear to everyone that the views and actions of this one elected representative are not those of the government. We defend the core values of freedom and respect. We guarantee freedom of expression and of religion, for Muslims as for everyone else. We are trying day by day to ensure that all the groups that make up the population of the Netherlands can live and work together peacefully. The government thus has a very different standpoint from Mr Wilders in this matter; we fundamentally disagree with him.

    Every one of us, ministers and elected representatives, in the Netherlands and abroad, has a responsibility to constantly weigh the consequences of what we say. We are guaranteed the right to express ourselves freely within the limits set by the law. This right is precious to us, and we will defend it uncompromisingly.

    We call on everyone in the coming days and weeks to act both freely and responsibly, bearing in mind all the consequences that their actions may have, without endangering the things that we all hold dear.

    It was and is our responsibility to draw Mr Wilders’ attention to the possible consequences of his deeds. Freedom does not absolve anyone from responsibility. Already we are having to take account of serious threats to Dutch people and Dutch interests in a number of countries. We have the duty to point this out to Mr Wilders. This is why we are speaking out today: because we care about the safety of Dutch nationals and businesses in other countries. About the Dutch armed forces, who are carrying out important missions. And about the interests of the Netherlands in the broadest sense, the values for which we stand and our international reputation. We call on Mr Wilders to bear all this in mind as he considers his course of action.”

    http://www.minbuza.nl/en/news/newsflashes,2008/02/Remarks-by-Prime-Minister-on-Wilders–film.html

  24. #24 by limkamput on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 11:09 pm

    Godfather,
    What I see in Wilders is just making a movie. I did not see him going around bombing or killing people. When the film Da Vincci Code was made and shown, did Christians go around boycotting, killing and bombing people. Look, I think you have a false sense of what is right and wrong. You are trying to portray you are magnanimous or fair; but you are actually trying to condone violence.

  25. #25 by Godfather on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 11:12 pm

    Just making a movie ? Obviously the Dutch government doesn’t think so, so perhaps the Dutch prime minister has a false sense of what is right and wrong ? Perhaps he was actually trying to condone violence ?

    Empty vessels have no substance.

  26. #26 by limkamput on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 11:17 pm

    My advice to you Godfather is this: you don’t want to deal this coward LadyGovida because by tomorrow morning she will become kickbutt or darkhorse or blackeye or colonel or Dracula. He even tried to impersonate me in Bakri Musa and Din Merican blogs. His cowardice is beyond comprehension.

  27. #27 by Godfather on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 11:24 pm

    The perverse logic of “I give, therefore I am entitled to take” cannot be correct in any culture or society. The demand to build churches in Saudi Arabia because the West allows mosques to be built in Christian-dominated countries is simply ridiculous. The fact that Christians allow their religion to be criticised, caricatured, etc doesn’t give rise to the right to criticise or disparage other religions.

    If you are firm that “it is only a movie”, try standing in a street corner in KL and distribute it. We will allow you to have a big disclaimer stating that “it is only a movie”.

  28. #28 by limkamput on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 11:26 pm

    So if the majority are understanding and peace loving, why get so rattled up by this one individual. I think all religions should learn to laugh at themselves. If a religion is vibrant and self assured, there is no fear of competition of another religion or fear of being undermined by some deviant groups or a movie. You are an empty gong, making a lot of noise but got nothing.

  29. #29 by limkamput on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 11:33 pm

    Even if certain religions disapprove of being criticised or caricatured, do you threaten and actually kill, bomb or maim? Or are there other means to counter or engage such behaviour?

  30. #30 by One4All4One on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 11:40 pm

    Dear friends,

    For all who are so concerned about peace and unity in our country and the world at large may i suggest that you go to
    http://www.bahai.org/ to obtain some useful information which may change the way we see our world.

    It is so sad that humanity has lost its direction. One has just to switch on to CNN, BBC, ALJAZEERA, or any other world news feed to see the extent of disruption, damage, turmoil, terrorism, fighting,
    animosity, and all sorts of other undesireable happenings which are going on around the globe.

    Don’t we desire PEACE, EQUALITY, JUSTICE, LAW & ORDER? How can we achieve them? What shall we do? Who do we turn to? What does the future hold for us, our children?

    We have to be truly honest with with ourselves, putting aside any form of discrimination, prejudice and bigotry in order to be able to see the truth.

    We have to search our inner-self and look up to friends and associates who may have been endowed with the blessing of coming in touch with or have the knowledge of practices which the world hungers for. We have to keep an open mind and be impartial
    in our judgement. Then only do we have the chance to obtain answers which we need to forge a truly united and peaceful world.

    We just have to give ourself the chance to do so.

  31. #31 by lkt-56 on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 11:54 pm

    That we live in a world divided into groups representing different interests is unavoidable. However when this grouping uses religion to justify their cause, the result can be disastrous.

    Those who use religion are actually not defending their religion but using it to expand their ego. In the case of the Christians and Muslims, both claim that their holy book is the genuine book of God/Allah and they go to great lengths to point out faults/discrepancies in each others holy book. Why not look at the positive aspects of their respective teachings? The answer is again EGO, one group wanting to dominate the other.

    Religions that asserts that man are basically bad, (eg you are born a sinner) and need an external power to heal you are putting their salvation in the hands of an external power – God or Allah. If they do something wrong, they think it is natural for they are after all born a sinner or born bad… But they can be forgiven by this external power if they repent.

    Buddhism teaches that there is a buddha inside each and every one of us and Bhuddism teaches:

    The greatest achievement is selflessness.
    The greatest worth is self-mastery.
    The greatest quality is seeking to serve others.
    The greatest precept is continual awareness.
    The greatest medicine is the emptiness of everything.
    The greatest action is not conforming with the worlds ways.
    The greatest magic is transmuting the passions.
    The greatest generosity is non-attachment.
    The greatest goodness is a peaceful mind.
    The greatest patience is humility.
    The greatest effort is not concerned with results.
    The greatest meditation is a mind that lets go.
    The greatest wisdom is seeing through appearances.

    Therefore it is not surprising that the only religion that has not had the history of going to war in the name of their god is Buddhism.

    That Geert Wilders is intent to fan more hatred in the world is his choice and beyond our control. That people want to coin the term Islamophobia to incite hate against one group of people is also beyond our control. These people are deluded and instead of reacting anger and hatred with more anger and hatred, we should find in ourselves the Buddha nature to instead feel Compassion for their ignorance. This is <SELF MASTERY. ;)

  32. #32 by LadyGodiva on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 11:54 pm

    “We have limkamput-phobia ? Can it not be cured with the right medications?” Godfather

    Anybody even remotely acquainted with the irrational outbursts by limkamput in this blog would have no difficulty in identifying his mental sickness as that best described by Freud as the “bearded lady disease”.

    One of the symptoms of this mental sickness is his hate and love relationship with commentator Lee Wang Yen and his suppressed bisexual tendencies.

    http://schizophrenia-thebeardedladydisease.com/

  33. #33 by Ghost on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 12:02 am

    How to achive unity when we are rejoicing at separation? Everyday, every moment life is telling us, we are one, there is no separation, there is no alien, there is no stranger, there is no enemy. Most agreed? most conceived? Are we allowed by the authority to console everything on this earth as ours? as one?
    They are the reason we’re separated, they are the reason we create such illusion as outsider, as enemy, which invited War.

  34. #34 by Lee Wang Yen on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 12:03 am

    There is a need to distinguish between Islamphobia/Islam-bashing and rejecting PAS’ agenda of Islamic State and Islamisation in Malaysia on the grounds that this agenda is inappropriate for a multi-cultural and multi-religious nation.

    For the record, I’m a committed Christian. But I reject the agenda of theonomy movement, which attepts to apply the letters of Mosaic Law and set up a Christian theocracy in the US. Does this stance amount to Christianityphobia/Christianity-bashing?

    As I’ve said, I’ve met some progressive Islamic scholars from Indonesia. These gentlemen were intelligent and extremely likeable. I have very high regard for them. The problem is not with Islam per se. The problem is with PAS’ fundamentalist interpretation of Islam.

    In short, rejection of PAS’ Islamic agenda in Malaysia DOES NOT IMPLY
    Rejection of Islam. It certainly DOES NOT IMPLY Islamphobia/Islam-bashing.

  35. #35 by Lee Wang Yen on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 12:03 am

    oops… the theonomy movement…

  36. #36 by mycroft on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 12:07 am

    The problem is that some parties have appointed themselves to be the sole guardians and representatives of race and/or religion that to attack them is seen as tantamount to an attack on said race or religion.

    Islamic fundamentalists are just the same as those red necks in the US chanting USA USA USA! Both are equally repulsive.

  37. #37 by mycroft on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 12:10 am

    “One of the symptoms of this mental sickness is his hate and love relationship with commentator Lee Wang Yen and his suppressed bisexual tendencies.”

    How sad it is that people here would play the homophobia card just to score petty points.

  38. #38 by Ghost on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 12:13 am

    For thousands of yrs human been living in a delusion created by man to manipulate and control all God’s creations desire to maintain our way of life declaring anyone or anything as enemy once their conventionals comfort been distorted.

  39. #39 by Lee Wang Yen on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 12:14 am

    According to China Press online (Newflash), Nik Aziz from PAS says that any secular government that is not based on Islamic doctrines will soon crumble.

    http://www.chinapress.com.my/

  40. #40 by mycroft on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 12:17 am

    I personally have a hard time taking PAS seriously since they let that toad Ibrahim Ali contest under their ticket.

  41. #41 by LadyGodiva on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 12:20 am

    “If I didn’t know any better, I would think that you and Lee Wang Yen are the same person based on your regurgitations of the same comment in several threads at the same time.” Godfather

    Huh? One likes to engage in intellectual masturbation and the other using this space to vent and rant against those he believes are trying to knock him off from the high pedestal he has put himself on in his role as the pseudo-intellectual “can’t think straight forever putting words in people’s mouths” resident gatekeeper – one speaking from the ivory tower of an institution on some foreign shores, and the other from the rooftop of a dilapidated attap house frequented by drug users and prostitutes.

  42. #42 by mycroft on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 12:27 am

    “The perverse logic of “I give, therefore I am entitled to take” cannot be correct in any culture or society. The demand to build churches in Saudi Arabia because the West allows mosques to be built in Christian-dominated countries is simply ridiculous.”

    So based on that argument, the Government in Malaysia, can deny non-Muslims their rights as well. After all, Constitutionally speaking Islam occupies a privileged position in the country, and as such the State has no obligation to build non-Islamic places of worship.

    “The fact that Christians allow their religion to be criticised, caricatured, etc doesn’t give rise to the right to criticise or disparage other religions.”

    Criticism is something that the Muslim world can do with. Why are so many mainly Islamic countries backwards compared to the rest of the world? Christian Europe wasn’t any better in the past until they began to secularise themselves. The problem is that many of the leaders of the Muslim world try and take the attention away from them and onto other distractions such as Israel.

    Furthermore, as a Catholic, I don’t like it when people express anti-Catholic bigotry. And believe me, there is quite alot of that around. But, I don’t transmit my disapproval into violence. Seriously, issues such as the cartoons and the teddy bear really made the Muslim world look bad, and it is their own fault for having such bad PR.

  43. #43 by Lee Wang Yen on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 12:28 am

    http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/77001
    Benarkah PAS sudah ubah matlamatnya?
    Norman Fernandez | Jan 14, 08 2:35pm

    Kembali kepada isu pokok, persoalannya ialah, benarkah kenyataan Anwar bahawa penubuhan negara Islam tidak lagi menjadi matlamat utama bagi PAS.

    Saya percaya kenyataan Anwar adalah tidak benar. Penubuhan negara Islam tetap menjadi dasar dan matlamat PAS. Melayari lamanweb Dewan Pemuda PAS Wilayah Persekutuan, jelas membuktikan bahawa PAS masih belum berganjak dari matlamatnya.

    Dalam laman web tersebut, terpapar kenyataan Tuan Guru Datuk Nik Aziz bahawa “PAS sebagai pembangkang adalah sebagai penegur dan penasihat kepada pemerintah. Seandainya kerajaan pemerintah menukar Perlembagaan dengan meletakkan Islam sebagai wadah perjuangan dan perlembagaan negara, PAS tidak akan menentang. Sebaliknya, PAS akan bekerjasama dan bersatu dengan pemerintah demi kedaulatan dan perlembagaan negara”.

    Ini adalah kenyataan paling jelas bahawa matlamat PAS tetap sama dan belum berubah. Jika ini tidak cukup bukti, Harakah edisi 15 Disember 2007 dengan nyata dan terang menyatakan cita-cita PAS, iaitu “menegakkan negara Islam”.

    Dalam keadaan sedemikian, pengundi bukan Melayu dan khususnya pengundi Cina sudah tentu akan was-was untuk memberi sokongan kepada PKR yang jelas terjerat di antara menonjolkan identiti multi-kulturisme dan sekularismenya, tetapi juga menjalin perhubungan dengan PAS kerana survival nasibnya banyak bergantung kepada PAS.

    Juga, bagi orang bukan Melayu, kenyataan terbuka Tuan Guru juga membayangi suatu keadaan di mana undi dan sokongan bukan Melayu, jika diamanahkan kepada PAS, dalam sekelip mata, boleh dikorbankan jika timbul kesempatan yang memberi peluang untuk PAS mencapai matlamatnya.

    Malahan hari ini ramai terkejut dengan pengakuan PAS bahawa PAS dan Umno kebelakangan ini sering mengadakan perjumpaan membincangkan isu berkaitan Melayu dan Islam.

  44. #44 by limkamput on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 1:00 am

    LadyGorilla,
    you are despicable. You even tried to feign female bloggers here and the moderator had to delete your despicable posting. Now you are hiding under female ID. Come on, have you got any dignity left in you. Please don’t cheat yourself because even BN never do that. They just cheat the people.

  45. #45 by stnaaron on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 1:13 am

    it may some a little bit of crazy this time and it is really beyond expectation thing has changed overnite on 8th march 2008 . I have been observing our beloved malaysia nation political situation since that day. Thing has change and malaysia political agenda will never be the same again and i hope this time all the political regardless from any party will read this …stop !!! no more arguement about status,political interest and so on…. malaysia still sitting at the backlane comparing to other developing nation and it really sound stranged that nowaday malaysian doesn’t voice any themes like “MALAYSIA BOLEH” like what we use to listen and understand from the unitification from the past during Tun M era.

    we as malaysian for those who are born and will pherished in this country please wake up …. thing need to be changed lets all of us head on to developed this nation so that there are voices in the world still can be name under malaysia unitification regardless from races,religion,poor ,rich and old plus the young…

    to DAP,PKR,PAS and little from the left over from BN if you can read this malaysia are very far behind from the country up north ,east nothing to be compare with the west….

    Please unified ….. and lets all of us proud to be a Malaysian ….

    Thank you to all readers

  46. #46 by stnaaron on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 1:24 am

    MALAYSIA BOLEH LAGI>>>>> MALAYSIA BOLEH LAGI>>>>>>>>

    BOLEH LAGI>>>>>>>>>>BOLEH LAGI>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    it sound stranged right readers…. boleh ke tak boleh…. I also puzzling ……

  47. #47 by RGRaj on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 2:11 am

    Geert Wilders: Islam means terrorism.

    Muslim: No, it doesn’t. Islam means peace. And if you don’t agree with me, I’ll chop your head off!

    Geert Wilders: Can’t you see? I was right all along.

    Muslim: @#*&^%$*! Die, you filthy kafir, die!

    (So who’s to blame?)

  48. #48 by dawsheng on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 2:28 am

    “How can Muslims react rationally and coolly to acts of provocation at a time when even the utterance of the mutest words of protest are deemed by some as the irrational outpourings of misguided pious grief instead?”

    But such irrationality serves the world well, it provides some kind of balance.

  49. #49 by dawsheng on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 2:44 am

    “Can this dilemma be resolved in time before we witness yet another round of Muslim-West antagonism as we did in the wake of the Muhammad cartoon controversy of 2004-2005?”

    I suspect this dilemma some Muslims are affected with can only be resolved when they went to heaven. Out of curiosity, are they not interested in making a movie about Jesus Christ?

  50. #50 by dawsheng on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 2:47 am

    God is not part of human nature.

  51. #51 by LadyGodiva on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 4:22 am

    “We have limkamput-phobia ? Can it not be cured with the right medications?” Godfather

    Anybody even remotely acquainted with the irrational outbursts by limkamput in this blog would have no difficulty in identifying his mental sickness as that best described by Freud as the “bearded lady disease”.

    One of the symptoms of this mental sickness is his hate and love relationship with commentator Lee Wang Yen and his suppressed bisexual tendencies.

    http://schizophrenia-thebeardedladydisease.com/

  52. #52 by ihavesomethingtosay on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 4:24 am

    many many new ppl here, seeeeeeeeem like cyber tropper still being paid

  53. #53 by ktteokt on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:24 am

    I thought there is only one al quran and one Allah in this world but how come Muslims are fighting Muslims, as in the case of Malaysia where we find Muslims from PAS opposing to the ideology of Muslims from UMNO?

    The worst part is that component parties in BN, especially MCA, became selective when supporting Islam. I remembered when PAS proposed to set up an Islamic nation in Malaysia many years ago, MCA raised its objection strongly but when AAB announced that Malaysia IS an Islamic state, MCA just kept quiet! Does this mean the Islam practised by UMNO differs from that practised by PAS? What’s more members from MCA expressly support the Islamic state set up by UMNO, especially a few from top line leaders.

    If at all they agree to the Islamic state set up by UMNO, they would only have two choices, i.e. they have either to convert themselves to Muslims, meaning they have to forego whatever traditional Chinese cultures, refrain from eating pork and they have to go home and destroy their ancestral worship tablets. Top party members would also need to “brain-wash” grass-root level members so that they too get converted. This is because the government in an Islamic state consists only of Muslims and non-Muslims have no place or say in it.

  54. #54 by ktteokt on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:26 am

    The second choice is for OKT to lead all MCA members out of BN in the admission of their non-halal status.

    There is no third choice for MCA. So top leaders in MCA should take a serious view of their support for AAB’s Islam Hadhari (but it may not make any difference if it is Islam Hadmalam).

  55. #55 by k1980 on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:34 am

    It’s not Hadmalam, but Hadpagi, Hadtengahari, Hadsubuh, Hadsenja and uncle tom cobbley and all

  56. #56 by Tickler on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 9:43 am

    Re: “An eye for an eye leaves both parties blind.” Gandhi.

    Gandhiji’s thoughts in his 1940 ‘open letter’ to the British:

    “I want you to lay down the arms you have as being useless for saving you or humanity. You will invite Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini to take what they want of the countries you call your possessions. Let them take possession of your beautiful island with your many beautiful buildings… If these gentlemen choose to occupy your homes, you will vacate them. If they do not give you free passage out, you will allow yourself, man, woman and child to be slaughtered… I am telling His Excellency the Viceroy that my services are at the disposal of His Majesty’s government, should they consider them of any practical use in enhancing my appeal.” (From Stanley Wolpert’s Jinnah of Pakistan.)

    Sri Aurobindo’s reaction when he heard this, as recorded in his book India’s Rebirth: “He must be a little cracked.”

    http://ia.rediff.com/news/2003/jun/23varsha.htm

  57. #57 by Tickler on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 9:55 am

    “Can this dilemma be resolved in time before we witness yet another round of Muslim-West antagonism as we did in the wake of the Muhammad cartoon controversy of 2004-2005?”

    Look at it this way. The recent republication of those Danish cartoons only drew muted reaction.
    As for `Muslim-West antagonism` a better way for Mr. Farish to handle that would be to go the source of Darul Harb and Darul Islam. The answer lies there.

  58. #58 by cemerlang on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 9:58 am

    Somewhere it is reported that Malaysia is a model Islamic state for the world to see. Outwardly Malaysians seem to be in harmony with one another. One has to live among the Malaysians for some time to find out the actual differences. One such difference seen in a working environment is that the relationship in one race is strong enough to expel another person of another race. There is no real team work. Only when you are inside such a situation will you feel that you are not part of the team. If team work is so important, why are there so many politicians selected from UMNO to be full ministers ? What happen politically affects almost all if not all aspects of life.

    Who are the people who believe in a religion ? All sorts. From the intelligent down to the ones who suffer from some kind of a brain disease. From one who can think rationally to one whose mind and emotion is split.

    Is Islam to be feared by non believers ? No. Because the number of believers is growing. The strength of the number of believers enable Islam to be lived. When one sees jihad, one will live jihad. It is the number of believers that psychologically convince them that the life after is rewarding. It is the believers who shouted and screamed like mad before doing anything barbaric that convince the other believers that, that is real courage. Humans make courage and death as the criteria to enter the kindom of Allah. In another words, it is a psychologically warfare. Physical warfare comes next. Kids as young as 5 years old are trained to fight to death in the Middle East. If there is no psychological tuning, do you think their parents allow them to die in the name of only they know what ? Back home, this does not occur. However there is something else in place. If one fine day you find that Islam means nothing to you anymore, the authorities will come and tell you that you are still a Muslim and you have to be a Muslim. Muslims believe that they are the enforcers of the Islamic law and they must make sure you go to heaven. What is the qualification of being an enforcer of the Islamic law ? Death. If you do not believe, you die. You go to hell. Muslims themselves are suffering from Islamphobia then.

  59. #59 by Tickler on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 10:08 am

    `Because the number of believers is growing.`

    World population increase, primarily in Islamic countries.

  60. #60 by Tickler on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 10:23 am

    On one occasion youths were heard to shout: “This should not be a church, this should be a mosque.”
    http://jammiewearingfool.blogspot.com/2008/03/vicar-attacked-by-asian-thugs-back-on.html

  61. #61 by catharsis on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 10:26 am

    “…………..We Need An Intelligent Response to Islamophobia…….”

    Take away BIN LADINISM from these dialogues would be a good start

    “Ears that hear and eyes that see- the Lord has made them both”

    Proverbs 20:12

  62. #62 by dawsheng on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 10:36 am

    “When will Muslims realise that reacting to racism and bigotry can only be effective when it is done from a higher moral ground, and not by responding to hate with hate?”

    When you use religion as your political doctrine, there’s no such thing as moral ground.

  63. #63 by sotong on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 10:38 am

    Being offended does not give one the right to resort to intimidation, aggression and violent.

  64. #64 by NewDAP on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 10:54 am

    From NST

    Rain disperses protesters

    20 March, 2008

    Deputy MB ‘should be a Muslim’

    KUALA LUMPUR: The sultan or head of any state cannot determine the composition of the executive council.

    Universiti Teknologi Mara senior professor of law Dr Shad Saleem Faruqi said the ruler’s position in the constitution did not allow him to do so.

    Shad said the ruler had to follow the advice of his menteri besar. “He can argue, caution or delay but he has to heed the advice of the menteri besar,” he said when asked to comment on the deadlock in Selangor over the composition of the executive council.

    Apart from the composition, the appointment of a deputy menteri besar has also become a source of much speculation in Selangor. There is a provision in the state constitution for a deputy menteri besar but it is silent on the religion or race.

    However, Shad Faruqi said it could be argued that the deputy menteri besar should be a Malay Muslim.

    “The deputy often acts on behalf of the menteri besar. Under the Interpretation Act, all the powers and functions of the primary officer (menteri besar) will be attributable to the acting officer or deputy menteri besar,” he said.

    The menteri besar is also an ex-officio member of the Dewan Di-Raja (Council of Rulers). This means, when the MB is not around, the deputy has to sit on the council and has to be a Muslim to be able to perform duties in this council.
    —————————————————————-

    SHAH ALAM: Heavy rain washed out a demonstration by about 1,000 people, from 12 Malay non-governmental organisations, at Dataran Shah Alam, yesterday. The demonstrators had gathered at 4pm to demand that Menteri Besar Tan Sri Khalid Ibrahim not appoint a deputy menteri besar, or if he did, to appoint a Malay.

    They also want Khalid to ensure that 60 per cent of the executive council is made up of Malay representatives.

    They dispersed when it started to rain half an hour later.

    ——————————————————————————–
    © Copyright 2008 The New Straits Times Press (M) Berhad. All rights reserved.

    GOD acted against those racist people to save Malaysia.

    Thank you GOD!

    GOD blesses GOD

  65. #65 by Tickler on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 11:05 am

    UPDATE: About 2 minutes in bin Laden claims:

    that despite your publishing of the insulting drawings, you haven’t seen any reaction from the one and a half billion Muslims

    No reaction?
    http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/191858.php

  66. #67 by pgsilai on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 1:22 pm

    LadyGodiva Says:
    Today at 04: 22.01 (8 hours ago)
    Anybody even remotely acquainted with the irrational outbursts by limkamput in this blog would have no difficulty in identifying his mental sickness as that best described by Freud as the “bearded lady disease”.

    One of the symptoms of this mental sickness is his hate and love relationship with commentator Lee Wang Yen and his suppressed bisexual tendencies.

    http://schizophrenia-thebeardedladydisease.com

    Please don’t spoil our mood here, if you guys want to argue over your hate/love relationship please go elsewhere! It’s very annoying! As I see it, you just can’t take his comments.

  67. #68 by One4All4One on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 1:25 pm

    Come on folks, read the title again…An Intelligent Response…

    Before one proceeds to put forward one’s opinion or two-cent worth, let’s take a step backward and consider what others have to offer. It is in the best interest of all to take note of whatever is happening around us. Are we that knowledgeable to ignore others’ learnings? Are we that learned to ignore their wisdom? Are we that superior to claim that whatever we subscribe to are all faultless and perfect, while that of others are not worth considering at all and faulty? Who are we to take such a stand?

    Notwithstanding one’s freedom to voice one’s opinion, I believe one has to be reasonable in one’s assesment of whatever that is paraded before us. A true knowledge seeker would not be biased , prejudiced, discriminatory. To be truthful is a prequisite to learning. Give recognition where recognition is due.

    As long as there are any elements of prejudice, bias and un-called for discrimination, a flawed conclusion will follow, and would not be acceptable.

    So to all who are so much into debating the pross and con, the ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ of any topic, be it religion, philosophy or any discipline of study or interest, please define your premise as clearly as possible, supported by honest facts and figures. Else it would all be an exercise of utter futility.

  68. #69 by limkamput on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 1:27 pm

    mycroft Says: How sad it is that people here would play the homophobia card just to score petty points.

    What can you expect from a coward who change IDs like changing underwear (that is provided he wears one, but I doubt. may be he changes IDs more freaquently than changng underwear). This coward [email protected] will never stop vomiting sh!t in this blog. Mycroft, i suggest you leave him alone, let me handle him. I don’t want too many people getting distracted by his cowardice.

  69. #70 by DAPPKR on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 1:40 pm

    This always had been an issue and always will be

    until people start to get on with their life practicing what they believe

    in and not discriminating what other religion believes. This issue is not

    always been for Islams but other religion as well no matter if it is

    in a small proportion. And freedom to religion is much needed in

    Malaysia. Uphold Human Rights and Uphold Your Believe.

    We want change.

  70. #71 by Tickler on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 3:00 pm

    But a gang of young black males – with Damian Williams still present – was pummeling another innocent bystander. Fidel Lopez, a self-employed construction worker, had been ripped from his truck and robbed of nearly $2,000. Someone busted his forehead open with a car stereo; another rioter tried to slice his ear off. The mobbed stripped off Lopez’s pants and underwear after he blacked out. Williams and others then spraypainted the married father’s chest, torso, and genitals black. Newton daringly threw his body over Lopez’s to stop the depravity.

    “Kill him and you have to kill me, too,” Newton yelled while waving a Bible. The crowd dispersed. The minister prayed in the street as Lopez regained consciousness. When he could not get an ambulance, he drove Lopez to the hospital himself.
    http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/malkin042602.asp

  71. #72 by mycroft on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 7:04 pm

    No, I won’t leave him alone, not because I like you or dislike him, but because it goes against my very principles to see blatant homophobia without speaking out against it.

  72. #73 by LadyGodiva on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 7:32 pm

    Mycroft, I can understand where you are going and why you are going with your statement but where is the word ‘homo-phobia’ mentioned anywhere in any of the postings including those of Godfather? The word used was ‘limkamput-phobia’ – and that was by Godfather. I don’t agree with his use of that word to describe this limkamput. It is too kind a word to use on someone who shouts from the top of his dilapidated attap roof.

    There’s nothing wrong with being gay.

  73. #74 by Tickler on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 7:32 pm

    Yesterday, at 6:00 p.m. Eastern Time, four to five Muslims viciously attacked Rabbi Uria Ohana in Brooklyn, New York, while shouting, “Allahu Akbar.”

    Rabbi Ohana, assistant head rabbi of Chabad-Lubavitch of Massachusetts, was about to get on the F-Train at Fourth Avenue and Ninth Street in Brooklyn.

    The young Muslim assailants grabbed rabbi Ohana’s yarmulke (skullcap), and when he went to them to get it back, they beat him and shouted, “Allahu Akbar.” One of the Muslim attackers ran away into the street and was hit by a car (G-d works in mysterious ways). He was arrested by police. But three to four other Muslim assailants–whom you can bet will attack other Jews–escaped and are free.
    http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2008/03/religion_of_pea_26.html#comments

  74. #75 by LadyGodiva on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 7:37 pm

    http://schizophrenia-thebeardedladydisease.com/

    Mycroft,

    You may want to read about the ‘bearded lady’ though!

  75. #76 by LadyGodiva on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 7:38 pm

    Your point, Tickler?

  76. #77 by mycroft on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 7:52 pm

    LadyGodiva, you wrote, “One of the symptoms of this mental sickness is his hate and love relationship with commentator Lee Wang Yen and his suppressed bisexual tendencies.”

    The way I see it, you are making it sound as if being bisexual is wrong, as you are associating it with limkamput.

  77. #78 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 7:56 pm

    Yesterday was the fifth anniversary of the U.S. invasion of Iraq and there were protests from anti-war protesters all over the U.S. In NYC there were protesters outside the office of the IRS (Inland Revenue Service or the equivalent of our Income Tax Department). They were protesting against the use of their money to help fund the war they believe should never have been fought.

    Do you think peaceful public demonstrations are something that may just catch on post-BERSIH? Democracy is about the free expression of ideas and opinions no matter how wrong and misguided some may appear to others.

  78. #79 by RGRaj on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 7:58 pm

    Come on LadyGodiva,

    Can’t you understand from Tickler’s post? That’s the reason many of us have Islamophobia!

    The Jewish rabbi had nothing to with the Muslims who attacked him. He got attacked simply because the Islamic scriptures say that Jews will be the enemy of Muslims until the end of time.

    And Muslims follow the rules of engagement with kafirs to this moment in time. Thus Islamophobia is rational & justified.

    Remember, it was not the Jews, Christians, Buddhists or Hindus who brought down the WTC, along with many other terrible lethal attacks on innocent public. It was Muslims.

  79. #80 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:02 pm

    Never mind Lady Godiva or Freud and the bearded lady, croft. The fact is being bisexual is increasingly popular among the ladies today in the U.S. There is no need to suppress anything if it is natural to you.

    Phobia is an entirely different issue.

  80. #81 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:04 pm

    “Remember, it was not the Jews, Christians, Buddhists or Hindus who brought down the WTC, along with many other terrible lethal attacks on innocent public. It was Muslims.”

    It wasn’t Muslims who murdered millions through ethnic cleansing a not too long ago in South America either!

  81. #82 by Tickler on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:05 pm

    Your point, Tickler? – LadyGodiva

    You dunno what is written about Jews? It is common knowledge and you need my point? Well:

    Dr. Ahmad Abu Halabiya, Sharia [Islamic Law] Rulings Council and Rector of Advanced Studies, Islamic University: “We the Palestinian nation, our fate from Allah is to be the vanguard of the war against the Jews until resurrection as the prophet Muhammad said: ‘Resurrection will not arrive until you will fight the Jews and kill them.’

    Dr. Hassan Khater: “Muhammad said in his Hadith: ‘The Hour [of Resurrection] will not arrive until you fight the Jews and the rock and the tree will say: O Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!’

    “The Prophet said: the Resurrection will not take place until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them. The Muslims will kill the Jews, rejoice [in it], rejoice in Allah’s victory. The Muslims will kill the Jews, and he will hide… “The Prophet said: the Jews will hide behind the rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: oh servant of Allah, oh Muslim this is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!”

  82. #83 by Tickler on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:08 pm

    Thus Islamophobia is rational & justified.- RGRaj

    When it is rational and justified, it no longer is a phobia. `Phobia` is used to compel the non muslims into dhimmitude. The PC conscious lap it up.

  83. #84 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:08 pm

    “The Jewish rabbi had nothing to with the Muslims who attacked him. He got attacked simply because the Islamic scriptures say that Jews will be the enemy of Muslims until the end of time.”

    I met a lot of whites who have a strong dislike for Jews. It is not just the Muslims. To understand some of it you need to read the Old Testament in the Christian Bible.

  84. #85 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:12 pm

    It wasn’t Muslims who murdered millions through ethnic cleansing a not too long ago in South America either!

  85. #86 by Tickler on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:13 pm

    Pogroms have been and still are carried out against the Jews in Europe/Russia/US. However, it is not written in the OT or NT that Jews should be eliminated

  86. #87 by Tickler on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:14 pm

    But possibly undergrad can show us as to where in the OT and the Bible it is written that Jews should be eliminated.

  87. #88 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:16 pm

    I did not say Jews should be eliminated! I said if you want to understand some of the sentiment you see expressed against Jews both by Muslims and some Christians today you may want to read the Old Testament of the Christian Bible.

  88. #89 by Tickler on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:17 pm

    Well, since I`m not sure I have posted undergrad`s comment at debbie`s, and now I may learn more.
    Thanks.

  89. #90 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:25 pm

    Wrong site to do that!

  90. #91 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:27 pm

    It is like posting anti-Muslim remarks or remarks which could be seen as such on a Muslim website or blog!

  91. #92 by Tickler on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:27 pm

    Maybe. You can tell debbie that – unless you afraid.

  92. #93 by Tickler on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:28 pm

    It is like posting anti-Muslim remarks or remarks which could be seen as such on a Muslim website or blog!

    Bad case of absurditis you got after that bit of sophistry.

  93. #94 by Tickler on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:29 pm

    And now I`m off to dinner. Have fun.

  94. #95 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:33 pm

    “Maybe. You can tell debbie that – unless you afraid.”

    LOL. Yep, I’m afraid they may just knock on my door and have me deported!

  95. #96 by Tickler on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:43 pm

    LOL. Yep, I’m afraid they may just knock on my door and have me deported!- undergrad2

    That reminds me to paraphrase Pip in Great Expectations:
    Some people are born stupid, some achieve stupidity, others have stupidity thrust upon them. You have manged all 3 succesfully.

    But keep laughing. I`ve laughed much at your inanities too.
    OK cia, cab`s here. Someone else will have to take over.

  96. #97 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:43 pm

    For the more serious readers, read

    http://comintern.edwardtbabinski.us/jews.html

    to understand some of the hatred for Jews by Christians.

  97. #98 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 8:50 pm

    “The Inquisition often targeted members of other religions as it did heretics. The Inquisition now lent its authority to the long-standing Christian persecution of Jews. Particularly during the Christian Holy Week of the Passion, Christians frequently rioted against Jews or refused to sell them food in hopes of starving them. At the beginning of the thirteenth century, Pope Innocent III required Jews to wear distinctive clothing. In 1391 the

    Archdeacon of Seville launched a “Holy War against the Jews.” By 1492 the Inquisition in Spain had become so virulent in its persecution of Jews that it demanded either their conversion to Christianity or their expulsion. Muslims experienced little better. Not surprisingly, Islamic countries offered far safer sanctuaries to escaping Jews than Christian lands.”
    -Excerpts from page 83-86, The Dark Side of Christian History, Helen Ellerbe

    http://comintern.edwardtbabinski.us/jews.html

  98. #99 by PSM on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 9:05 pm

    Noor Aza Othman,

    Your comments, I believe are spot on! Thank you for being honest. I think the “Sisters in Islam” in Malaysia have also been fighting for equality for a long time (however, it’s been a long time since I’ve heard anything from them. Are they still around?).

  99. #100 by PSM on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 9:08 pm

    Undergrad2,

    You are correct. However, that was in the Middle Ages. We are no longer in the 12th or 13th Century. You can’t go around killing, bombing & maiming people who do not have the same opinions as you do!

  100. #101 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 9:22 pm

    I felt it is proper that this anti-Jewish sentiment (as opposed to anti-semitism) which is more widespread than commonly believed be given a historical perspective. It is not an excuse for murder!

    Christians have been guilty of ethnic cleansing of milliions in South America not too long ago.

  101. #102 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 9:27 pm

    “You are correct. However, that was in the Middle Ages. We are no longer in the 12th or 13th Century. You can’t go around killing, bombing & maiming people who do not have the same opinions as you do!”

    I just thought that it was proper to give this anti_Jewish sentiment its proper historical perspective.

  102. #103 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 20 March 2008 - 11:16 pm

    Those who try to transform Kit’s blog into an Islamic bashing blog does injustice to a man who has devoted his entire life towards fighting for freedom.

  103. #104 by AirJ on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 12:00 am

    Salam All
    This is an interesting topic. There are people here who have cited cases of injustice caused by muslims to non-muslims but one could easily cites others cases whereby the reverse occured. Why should you focus on the negatives of others when there are positive factors you can take to promote closer ties and understandings?

    Everybody has their own preferences and ideologies. I can preach them aloud but I cannot force you to take my side. From my perspective, I think USA had a hand in creating disorder and unjust feelings amongst muslims towards westerners. It was particularly heightened with the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan in the false pretext of war on terror. These events had caused untold chain-reactions which some had cited above. Bin Laden is still not captured (intentionally perhaps?), Iraq is in shambles and facing ruins. Bush is still in power and USA still arrogantly flouts every rule of just and democratic governance it so highly preaches. From muslims perpectives – how is this a just society?

    From the beginning of mankind we have seen chaos and moronic actions being done in the name of religion. If we continue to see and highlights the negatives, these will not stop. It begins with you and I, we have to take this responsibility to say this is enough. We shall have to move towards more tolerated views of others different from us. As I’ve said, I may have my own personal convictions and beliefs but I can tolerate others who have different views from me. Let’s move forward and not have the vicious cycle continues…

  104. #105 by RGRaj on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 12:56 am

    You must understand that Bush was not acting as a Christian when he invaded Iraq. So that war cannot be used as a Muslim vs non-Muslim conflict. Can you really say which Christian teaching Bush was following when he decided to invade Iraq?

    Also regarding Undergrad2’s post about ethnic cleansing in South America; what religious doctrines were the perpertrators following when they did this?

  105. #106 by undergrad2 on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 1:21 am

    The Christians were responsible for the deaths of millions as a result of ethnic cleansing.

    I am a practicing Christian; and I’m willing to admit to that.

  106. #107 by Justhis on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 2:51 am

    Dear Mr. Lim,

    Moon light and solar power is not the same because these sources of energy cannot be the same. No human can survive when these two sources reducing their variants. But we need both of them naturally different in harmony.

    PAS is a political party that fights for or up holding Islamic principle. They have frankly and honestly indicate to every one. Seeing from the previous events drive me to think in order for this Party to continue growing, they must have reasons to fight; either that Islamic value is deteriorating, influence by western life style, feeling insecure due to existence of other religious or any other reasons but they must find one or more to justify it. By doing so, then only the Party members can unite. Sometimes only historians, after many years later, can determine if this unity is out of political purposes or the will of Allah.

    From another angle, Democratic Action Party cannot function if Malaysia becomes a communist country, just as PAS if their subject centre proven inexistent. DAP has to look for, one way or another, reasons to fight for democratic or freedom. It does not matter how much freedom is enough and how much power given to people is considered enough but understood well that once enough is enough then the Party can ‘close shop’. Because the party losses it meaning to exist. Hence, if Malaysia Government suddenly improves just 50% in all aspects, DAP will find it tough to advance in next round of election, not to mention losing ground. So, DAP will continue find faults from all angles to justify actions; in disregard how well ruling parties perform. (This way is still good for Malaysian now, but looking forward a more balanced duties and roles in 4 States that under Oppositions local governance.)

    If we are mature enough, either politically or humanity, then all should understand and accept that society grows gradually in transition manner. Unless due to wars, which can change societies in a switching manner from one form to another. Transition simply means stage by stage. DAP do not need to participate religious activities with PAS. But some of the democratic actions; i.e. related to old folks welfare, tackling social illness, disposing grafts, and many others are very good interfacing. Imagine if DAP Chinese and Indian members march and hand out letter of protest to Demark Embassy on cartoon Islamic figure, half the world would realize DAP has political mature leaders that up holding righteousness and enhancing social harmony.

    Example above will stage up positive challenge among DAP and PAS. DAP will try to emphasize social and democratic developments, economy growth, advance technology, creative leisure entertainments and many more good points to Islamic fundamentalist in PAS to gain their reorganization that Malaysia is functioning as a Nation in the world. Also from PAS will demonstrate their ability to maintain a simply, peaceful, respectful, low inflation, good value society that offers Mr. Lim the opportunity to enjoy less noisy, cleaner air, cheaper foods, more natural scenes, slower traffic, more polite conversations Kampong life style.

    Only through understanding of co-existence and inter-dependency, DAP-PKR-PAS can form coalition parties.
    But all these have to come through interface with PAS. May be going through PKR can make them feel important, which is a good and amicable thing to do. In the opposite, cut off interface with PAS but still need to form coalition parties with PAS under present political situation will only make DAP more like MCA. With UMNO, they wear the same sarong without trying to understand one another for donkey years. Only recently they start to realize that wearing in this way will soon tear the sarong into half and turn naked.

    So, Mr. Lim please don’t share sarong. Please try to understand PAS through interface and stage up positive challenges with them through PKR. No one can appreciate democratic without knowing its good points. Likewise, how well do you understand Islam, other than kris pointing (not Grease Lightning) in Parliament?
    Who knows, we may need PAS to assist non-Muslim in body snatching cases legally in future. For a start they can help to decode the following :
    A pamphlet titled ISLAM.
    published by Salafi Da’wah Centre and Library
    C32, 2nd floor, Al-Rahaba Complex near State Bank, Nellikai Road, Mangalore -575001. Tel : 2422220
    e-mail: [email protected]

    Stated in page 18 of the following :
    To the learned Jew also, the name “Allah’ is not something foreign. The Hebrew noun for God is ‘Elah’, sometimes written in its polite-plural form: Elohim. Elah is itself derived from the Hebrew noun ‘Alah’, which shares a common spelling, root and meaning with the Arabic name for the One God. For Christian too, God’s name is the same as that recognized by Muslims. In Arabic Bibles, the name of ‘God the Father’ is ‘Allah’. While in Aramaic, God is called ‘Allah’ –the proper noun by which Jesus (peace be upon him) referred to God in his native tongue. So, Jews, Christians and pagan Arabs had been calling God “Allah” centuries before Muhammad (peace be upon him) was even born.

    Thank you
    Regards,

  107. #108 by Tickler on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 8:09 am

    # undergrad2 Says:
    Yesterday at 23: 16.16

    Those who try to transform Kit’s blog into an Islamic bashing blog does injustice to a man who has devoted his entire life towards fighting for freedom.
    ________________________________________________

    I see that comment as a threat. Accusing those who do not agree with your lies. As someone rightfully has commented about you:

    “He isn’t stupid in an innocent sense but rather twisted with an arrogant proclivity to ego trip by brow beating his peers and seeking to insinuate himself into a discussion as an authority when his feet isn’t on the ground. He gets his way with the mods because the mods aren’t the brightest around like at the LKS blog.”

  108. #109 by Tickler on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 8:25 am

    COLONEL Muammar Gadaffi yesterday celebrated the anniversary of the birth of Prophet Muhammad with a two-hour speech in which he attacked the Scandinavian countries for besmirching the Prophet, the Arabs for monopolising the Kaaba and signed off by describing the Bible as a forgery.

    Speaking to the mammoth crowd that braved the afternoon heat in Nakivubo War Memorial Stadium after leading the Thuhur (afternoon) prayer, Col. Gadaffi said any Bible and Tora (Old Testament) that does not mention Prophet Muhammad was written by mankind and therefore a fraud.

  109. #110 by Jeffrey on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 9:11 am

    “…..He gets his way with the mods because the mods aren’t the brightest around like at the LKS blog….”

    What is the meaning of “mods”??

  110. #111 by jetaime.f on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 9:12 am

    sorry, what’s mods?

  111. #112 by Tickler on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 9:20 am

    I think he/she meant `moderators`

  112. #113 by jetaime.f on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 9:30 am

    Tickler: thanks….too many “slangs”/ abbreviations used – need to learn…

  113. #114 by Jeffrey on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 9:42 am

    Moderators ? I don’t think so. There is but only one moderator in this blog so how could Mod(s) be plural?

    I venture to guess the term “Mods” is a kind of slang reference to people or sub-community of people of subculture interacting with each other within an internet Blog because of their shared values ….Slang derived from community blogs like We Are The Mods!, where “Mods” supposedly interact with each other through the same shared meanings of their culture, where others who are not in the Mod culture may not understand.

    So whoever who made that statement “he gets his way with the mods because the mods aren’t the brightest around like at the LKS blog” is a ‘techie’ person (knowing the slang) and inimical to LKS and the shared values of this forum. He is likely a BN sympathizer, on the grounds of which the credibility and objectivity of his remarks directed at anyone here are suspect.

  114. #115 by jetaime.f on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 9:48 am

    typo error…but what you say is not untrue…..

  115. #116 by Tickler on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 9:48 am

    Ah, that`s interesting. I learn something,
    But he/she has never been a BN sympathizer and has always voted the other way in the `voting life`.
    But I do like the reasoning :)

  116. #117 by Jeffrey on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 9:52 am

    Tickler, how could you use a quote from an anonymous person to tell off a member of this blogging community in which you are part of when that anonymous someone (probably a BN cybertrooper) displays such supercilious condescension to all this blog by saying “the mods aren’t the brightest around like at the LKS blog” with all the implications that we are “mods” of a sub community or subculture that others not part of in mainstream cannot understand? This is indirectly directed against LKS too.

  117. #118 by sotong on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 11:13 am

    Religious intolerant is when one religious values are forced into others.

    Islamic extremism, fundamentalism and intolerant do not have a place in a multi religious and modern society.

  118. #119 by Tickler on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 11:31 am

    “the mods aren’t the brightest around like at the LKS blog” – Jeffrey

    Until you claified that there is only one moderator (who I too have suffered under before, and probably will again with this post), we never knew if it was a single or plural.

    I will reemphasize that it is not a BN cybertrooper/sympathizer, and I do not see why I`m made to repeat that.
    It`s rather Goebellian to repeat something to make it look like the truth.
    As for LKS we have supported him for a long time now. If needs be we can meet through a meeting with Karpal (yes he`s a good friend). LKS probably knows my dad from Malacca days – can meet him too and share a cuppa and talk over `old times`.

  119. #120 by Jeffrey on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 1:57 pm

    No “Goebellian” repeats intended – interesting word “Goebellian” – as my second posting 09: 52.43 was made (from my end) before your posting at 09: 48.45 appeared on the screen, such workings of WordPress platform.

    But on the subject whether “the mods aren’t the brightest around like at the LKS blog”, whoever should not deride importance of blogs. I noticed (before our last election) the manacled MSM (Mainstream Media) dared not take initiative to report anything unfavourable to the government. However the blogs took the lead and once a scandal was placed by blogs in public domain, MSM took it from them and gave coverage, albeit restraint one, but it served the purpose of disseminating the scandals to the national audience, penetrating areas where there was no much internet use and access, which may be one of the reasons people got so fed up and moved against the BN in 2008 elections. So blogs played a part I think in what happened, I take a litle exception to whosoever who derides its utility by saying readers of this blog or that blog are not bright etc .

  120. #121 by Jeffrey on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 1:58 pm

    “….report anything unfavourable OF the government…” Sorry.

  121. #122 by limkamput on Friday, 21 March 2008 - 5:00 pm

    Undergrad2 says: “The Christians were responsible for the deaths of millions as a result of ethnic cleansing.
    I am a practicing Christian; and I’m willing to admit to that.”

    We are discussing the issues at present, not things happened centuries ago. Are you saying therefore we have no right to comment what happens in the muslim world today because of our chequered past. Same as a typical argument against the West to talk on human rights and democracy because of their colonial past.

  122. #123 by vwfs68 on Saturday, 22 March 2008 - 2:03 am

    Islam today appears to be increasingly intolerant against all things non-Islam and its clerics seems to promote vengefulness in striking out anyone and anything that they perceive as insulting their religion.

    On this whilst the world and the Christian community has evolved to be highly tolerant. The Christians are turning the other cheek, when insulted and oppressed as oppose to the Muslims who will strike out with their Jihad retaliation.

    And yet, we have Muslims telling us Islam is a peaceful and tolerant religion but its actions are far from peaceful nor just.

  123. #124 by Tickler on Saturday, 22 March 2008 - 2:20 am

    # undergrad2 Says: March 20th, 2008 (2 days ago) at 20: 08.55

    I met a lot of whites who have a strong dislike for Jews. It is not just the Muslims. To understand some of it you need to read the Old Testament in the Christian Bible.
    ____________________________________________________
    So the in the OT it tells the Jews to eliminate Christians, or does it tell the Christians to eliminate the Jews?
    [Me not being christian, I assume you mean `whites` to be christians.]
    As `a practicing Christian` surely that should be within your capabilities to answer.
    Shhh nobody help him please.

  124. #125 by Tickler on Saturday, 22 March 2008 - 6:41 am

    # undergrad2 Says: March 20th, 2008 (2 days ago) at 21: 22.56

    Christians have been guilty of ethnic cleansing of milliions in South America not too long ago.
    __________________________________________________
    Another perspective:

    The parallels go beyond the death worship of Aztec warriors and Arab suicide-bombers. One of the latter responsible for the train bombings in Madrid declared in a letter: “You (Christians) love life — we (Moslems) love death.” Compare this Aztec poem:

    There is nothing like death in war
    Nothing like the flowery death
    So precious to the gods who give us life
    Far off I see it! My heart yearns for it!
    [ ]
    In 1487, to celebrate the completion of the Great Temple of Huitzilopotchtli in the Aztec capital of Tenochtitlan, 20,000 prisoners were sacrificed in fourteen days, with long lines of victims stretching from the temple in four directions as far as the eye could see.

    It was decreed that other gods were perpetually hungry. Tlaloc, the rain god, needed the hearts of children and babies so that it would rain. Xipe, the plant god, needed human skins acquired by skinning a victim alive, so that plants would grow.

    Naturally, the tens of thousands of victims needed annually for these cosmic sacrifices could not come from the Aztec people, or else they would quickly kill themselves off. The only way to get them was to capture them as prisoners of war.

    Thus war — Holy War — became the purpose of the Aztec State. All soldiers in the Aztec Army were Holy Warriors, Warriors of the Gods. Peace was dangerous. No war meant no prisoners to sacrifice, no food for the gods, which risked the destruction of mankind and the universe itself. The only way to avoid cosmic disaster was for the Aztecs to accept the burden fate had given them and wage perpetual war for the salvation of humanity.
    http://usawakeup.org/mythofmecca.htm

  125. #126 by jetaime.f on Saturday, 22 March 2008 - 7:56 am

    not all whites are chrisitians

  126. #127 by Bigjoe on Saturday, 22 March 2008 - 9:39 am

    This idea that the response to religious persecution is intelligent answer is not new. If you read the religious debates in English courts of King Henry VIII, in my view the onset of modern secularity, you realized they talked of this idea itself.

    The problem is that not that there is no intelligent response to Islamphobia but rather its not being heard due to politicisation. Its actually the core of secularity argument.

    Why did the US adopt such a strong separation of church and state? Due to the experience of its migrant fleeing religious persecution. They were religious people and thought the best defense against religious persecution was to remove the role of state power.

    Islam is a more organized religion than well almost all others. But it fundamentally has little confidence as a religion without state power despite proof to the contrary. After all its the fastest growing religion even in the US. Why? Because its not about religion, its about power and politics and that is all too common a weakness.

  127. #128 by Tickler on Saturday, 22 March 2008 - 10:20 am

    jetaime.f Says: not all whites are chrisitians

    Of course we know that. That comment is in the context of Undergraduate`s comments earlier.
    Just as a different perspective on S.America (also related to his comment) may be found here:
    http://www.groupsrv.com/religion/about46518.html

  128. #129 by jetaime.f on Saturday, 22 March 2008 - 10:53 am

    chill…………..

  129. #130 by Tickler on Saturday, 22 March 2008 - 11:46 am

    So sorry and beg forgiveness for disturbing the peace.
    Verily ignorance is blissful.[sarcasm intended].

  130. #131 by vwfs68 on Saturday, 22 March 2008 - 12:55 pm

    “# Tickler Says:
    Today at 02: 20.32 (10 hours ago)

    # undergrad2 Says: March 20th, 2008 (2 days ago) at 20: 08.55

    I met a lot of whites who have a strong dislike for Jews. It is not just the Muslims. To understand some of it you need to read the Old Testament in the Christian Bible.
    ____________________________________________________
    So the in the OT it tells the Jews to eliminate Christians, or does it tell the Christians to eliminate the Jews?
    [Me not being christian, I assume you mean `whites` to be christians.]
    As `a practicing Christian` surely that should be within your capabilities to answer.
    Shhh nobody help him please.”

    I am astounded by the lack of understanding you guys have. First thing first, in no place in the Bible OT or NT tells us to Kill JEWS. In fact the Jews are treated as in the first born child. The elder. GOD chose the Jews to be an example to the world as a holy priesthood; unfortunately not that didn’t that well. In NT the faith was open to non-Jews and from then onwards the new movement was came to be known as Christians (followers of Christ).

    In times of the atrocities the massacres in the varios examples you cited were politically motivated. And the examples you cited are over 600 years ago (if that is recent by your standards). Although it was sanctioned by the Catholic Church it was wrong. In the age of enlightenment time of Martin Luther where the Protestant Christian movement was formed thats a breakaway from the political control and to follow the real teaching of Jesus Christ which is to love one another; and turn the other cheek for vengeance belongs to GOD. True Christians follow a non-violent approach to life and we do not retaliate by killing other people even if they insult our GOD (Jesus).

    Even more recent, the second world war the Jews were heavily persecuted, thats still within 70 years of our lifetime (the holocaust).

    First of all, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all have the same roots. All claim to worship the GOD of Abraham, and share many of the same text. Hence the three religions all are middle-eastern in nature. Not White. Today, there are more Asian Christians than White (Caucasian) Christians. A trip to Europe, you will see many abandon churches and cathedrals.

    I am only explaining what we see in the world TODAY. If the muslims are so peaceful and inclusive and wonders why there’s Islamophobia they must be really blind or highly insensitive? Islam is reminiscent of the times when the Catholic Church was politically all powerful. Absolute Power corrupts absolutely, dont you agree?

    Today, many “Whites” are atheist or are “New Agers” not many are Christians.

    I hope that answers your sarcastic question.

  131. #132 by One4All4One on Saturday, 22 March 2008 - 10:20 pm

    Phobia…fear…insecurity…uncertainty…unknown…darkness…abyss…devil…death…after-life…the unclear…failure…dark ages…end of the world…natural calamity…nuclear warhead…satan…accident
    …trade embargo…climatic change…extinction…global warming…
    ozone layer depletion…green house effect…anarchy…hegemonism
    …racial discrimination…apartheid…inflation…economic downturn…
    currency depreciation….etc, etc…

    Any of the above may spark fear and phobia in anyone of us. The fear of the unknown. That is the reason why the initiated seek out to unravel unknown frontiers in the hope that fellow brethens may be enlightened and fear no more. To be ignorant no more. Knowledge lights up as opposed to the stifling effect of darkness.

    Humanity had gone through it all…every imaginable and unimaginable tragic events.

    Do we have to go through them again and again? Why can’t we live honorably, peacefully, lovingly, caringly, unprejudiced and accommodatingly?

    Isn’t there enough space for all of us? Why must we greed for more than what we need? Is one race more superior than another?
    Is another religion greater than the other? When can we stop lording over others? When will we see the folly of our actions? When will we accept all humanity as our own brothers and sisters?That humanity is one? When can we see that the God that we are worshipping all this while is actually the One and Only God, by whatever Name we came to know? That religion is actually one?

    We are living in the age of enlightenment. We have the benefit of hindsight. We have access to information and knowledge unimaginable even as close as 100 years ago. Why are behaving as if we are still living in the dark ages? Aren’t we suppose to have been ‘paradigmn-shifted’ in our mentality to be in sync with modern times?

    Perhaps because of deep-set discrimation, knowingly or otherwise, that we became so ignorant and backward in our view of our surrounding and environment. Or perhaps it was due to sheer lack of learning that contributed to the current state of affair, in which case the available information and knowledge resources are not utilised sufficiently.

    The constant bickering among religious groups should have been be replaced with meaningful discussion and discourse. We have to shed any prejudice that may colour our views and inclination and to move into uncharted waters. We should have the courage to accept new knowledge with grace and humility.

    The world should not be allowed to cringe under the shadow of ‘Islamophobia’. It is an over-reaction to what we do not know about the religion that causes unnecessary fears. We have to confront it i.e. learn about the religion itself from authorised and reliable sources and put to rest once and for all all doubts and prejudice that we may have harboured. Same for all other religions.
    We have to get down to the core of the subject to fully understand their significance and relevance in relation to place and time.

    It is with this approach that it is hoped that one can see the significance of teachings which are relevant to this age and time. Progressive revealation is a concept which is worth investigating to understand the ‘development’ of religions throughout the ages.

    Different era calls for different revealation and approach simply because humanity is progressing with time. We no longer write on bamboo or stone slabs. We no longer look to the medium or soothsayer to cure our sickness. We no longer thought that the earth is flat or that the sighting of the comet would bring bad luck to our community.

    Let’s move on.

  132. #133 by bra888 on Saturday, 22 March 2008 - 11:13 pm

    “I love you,
    You love me,
    We are a happy family,
    With a great big hug and a kiss from me to you,
    Won’t you say you love me too.”

    (by Barney, the purple dinosaur)

    “I bomb you,
    You judge me,
    We are an angry family,
    With a simple comic strip and a C4 from me to you,
    Won’t you say you hate me too.”

    (Current world)

  133. #134 by lakilompat on Wednesday, 26 March 2008 - 12:22 pm

    The thing is, if you just sit there doing nothing but to pray and do not accept “Change” in the outside world there will come a day when other races will come to create a mess in your country like what is happening in many middle east countries today. As a result a group of reformist turn into terrorist, they not only threatened their own govt. but also foreigner. All kind of religion should be accepted, the things are, we also need to change to adapt with modern world. We can’t defend our country using religion when foreigner send in their tanks & jet fighter & warship & troops.

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