Time to move on into the uncharted political waters

This morning I visited Taman Cempaka market and the Pasir Puteh market together with the three elected DAP Assemblymen in Ipoh Timur parliamentary constituency – Su Keong Siong (Pasir Pinji), Wong Kah Woh (Canning) and Ong Boon Piow (Tebing Tinggi) – to thank the Ipoh Timor voters for their great support in the March 8 general election returning me as MP with a humbling majority of 21,942 votes as well as securing a DAP victory in all the three constituent assembly seats of Pasir Pinji, Canning and Tebing Tinggi with impressive majorities of 6,339, 5,666 and 2,515 respectively.

Earlier, three days ago, I had visited the Kampong Simee and Pasir Pinji markets in my thank-the-voters rounds.

In my rounds today, I received mixed reactions to the proposed DAP-PKR-PAS Perak State coalition government headed by a PAS Mentri Besar, details of which were finalized two nights ago with regard to the 6-3-2 allocation of Exco seats respectively for DAP, PKR and PAS and awaiting the holding of the swearing-in ceremony.

The mixed reactions could be divided into the following categories:

• Support;
• Conditional support with concerns about Islamisation undermining the constitutional rights of Malaysians;
• Outright opposition, regarding the DAP-PKR-PAS coalition government with a PAS MB as a betrayal of the DAP’s general election mandate.

I was asked how DAP’s support for a DAP-PKR-PAS coalition government headed by a PAS MB could square with my repeated assurances in ceramahs during the campaign trail that the DAP had no relationship or understanding with the PAS for the 2008 general election.

I was speaking the truth in the election ceramahs. Up till March 8, 2008, DAP had no relationship or links of any nature with PAS in connection with the general election, as our relationship was only with PKR.

The 2008 general election had produced a new political landscape which forced the DAP to immediately review the political situation, as the March 8 “political tsunami” had not only swept away the unbroken Barisan Nasional two-thirds parliamentary majority, it also swept away the Barisan Nasional in four states, namely Penang, Kedah, Perak and Selangor, and crushed UMNO attempt to recapture Kelantan.

In two states, however, Perak and Selangor, the voters had created a result which forced the three opposition parties, DAP, PKR and PAS to co-operate to form an alternative government as no two political parties would have sufficient majority to rule.

In Perak, DAP won 18, PKR 7 and PAS 6 seats out of a total of a 59-strong Assembly while in Selangor, PKR won 15, DAP 13 and PAS 8 seats out of a total of 56-strong Assembly.

The March 8 political tsunami was historic and unprecedented. It saw voters transcending race and religion when casting their vote, with Malay, Chinese and Indian voters casting their vote for “Change” regardless of race and religion – which is the first time in the history of Malaysian general election, making this the most memorable phenomenon and event marking the 50th anniversary of Merdeka.

As a result, the Opposition in Peninsular Malaysia is collectively more multi-racial, multi-religious and inclusive than the Barisan Nasional, having more Chinese and Indian MPs apart from having a strong representation of Malay MPs.

In a matter of hours between the end of polling at 5 pm on March 8 and the announcement of the election results by midnight, a new political landscape had replaced the old – with all political parties having to come to terms with new political realities.
Mistakes were made by political parties adapting to the sweeping changes caused by the March 8 political tsunami.

For the DAP, we have to address the changes from one of no relationship or link with PAS up till end of polling at 5 pm on March 8 to one where DAP had to decide on some form of co-operation with PAS without sacrificing our principles and policies as a direct consequence of the general election results of the people’s desire for change at both the national and state levels – particularly for the two states of Perak and Selangor.

DAP was unfairly and falsely accused of being anti-Malay and anti-Islam when DAP had reservations about a PAS Mentri Besar for the Perak DAP-PKR-PAS coalition government – which was completely baseless as DAP had supported a Malay State Assemblyman from PKR to be the Perak MB.

It is most regrettable that there are comments on my blog as well as writings by commentators misreading or deliberately distorting my very brief and straightforward comments on the Perak coalition government issue.

That PAS is the smallest of the three-party coalition government, with 6 seats as compared to DAP’s 18 and PKR’s 7, is one important factor for the DAP’s initial opposition to a PAS MB for Perak.

Another is concern about PAS’ Islamic State and hudud law policies, which are also among the key concerns of those in the latter two categories who give conditional support and those who oppose the idea of a DAP-PKR-PAS coalition government.

DAP leaders and members have to be fully aware of these concerns. Whether a DAP-PKR-PAS Perak coalition government with PAS MB succeeds or not will depend on its performance and record to demonstrate (i) that the welfare and livelihood of the people of Perak is better safeguarded and promoted than under previous Barisan Nasional state governments; and (ii) that no further Islamisation policies are introduced to the detriment of the constitutional rights of all Malaysians, regardless of race or religion.

It is time to move on into the new uncharted Malaysian political waters.

  1. #1 by alegria on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 5:48 pm

    Uncle Lim, it is when we are in uncharted water that we ourselves have to change. DAP won not because of DAP supporters, the support came from all communities because of the dislike to BN. It will help if you have some PR skill and not be so damn stern at all times. If you want PAS to understand your struggle, you have to sit down and talk to them again and again until everyone is happy with the outcome. You need that or else this victory will be meaninless come next GE. For the country and for DAP, work with everyone including PAS, talk to them, find some common ground. The ball is in your court.

  2. #2 by SemiOloo on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 5:49 pm

    Macam mana malaysia ata orang manyak bodoh macam raesyatimpiatu bolih jati menteli? tia sutah tua titak paham pelembagaan malaysia ka? Dulu masa muta, tia sokong mahateer lulus pelembagaan balu halang semua raja-raja masok campor politek. sekalang tia suruh sultan pilih BN tubuh kelajaan perak! sultan mana ata kuasa lagi? kalau sultan ikut cakap olang bodoh macam raesyatimpiatu maka pelembagaan malaysia sutah titak bolih pakai lagi la! kalau BN hanya tapat 28 kerusi bolih tubuh kelajaan, nanti talam dewan negeri perak kelusi kelajaan 28, kelusi pemangkang 31 kelusi, mana ata lojik? semua olang talam dunia ini ketawa besar lo! minoriti kontrol majoriti! kalau itu macam pun bolih, menang atau kalah pun sama, tak payah atakan pilihanlaya lagi la, bila cukup 5 tahun, telus panggil sultan pilih BN lagi. Abdula kali ini titak bolih pilih raesyatimpiatu jati menteli lagi la sebab tia sutah tua, titak ingat pelembagaan malaysia lagi, tia sutah ata sakit pakinson, hatar tia ka pusat olang tua la!

  3. #3 by Ryan-W on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 5:52 pm

    Now that the an agreement to rule the silver state of Perak has been made amongst the 3 parties. it’s time to look forward and ensure eavh and every Perak citizen is equally taken care of, especially the poor and under-privileged.

    By the way, understand that The Star’s Wong Chun Wai is using his Cafe Latte column to interview Tan Sri Khalid (Selangor MB) and Lim G E (Penang CM). I feel that he should not be accorded the privilege and honour to conduct the interview given the paper’s one-sided reporting and news spinning. I am sure most, if not all supporters of PKR and DAP will agree. The fear is that Wong will spin out something again during the dialogue.

  4. #4 by robleong on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 5:53 pm

    Kit Siang, the majority of the people who voted for the Opposition want to see the DAP as a party with a broad, multiracial outlook; if it wasn’t before, it should be now, especially as you have formed the government in so many states. Working alongside PAS is not only necessary, it is crucial, in order for the DAP to successfully handle this new Malaysian reality. However, I have confidence that DAP and PAS will adapt for the betterment of all Malaysians.

  5. #5 by vincteh on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 5:55 pm

    Communicate more… and Let’s move forward and make Malaysia a better place for all Malaysian. U have the people supports and understanding.

  6. #6 by 130679 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:02 pm

    bring more new and energetic people to serve and disregard the others bad comment work together to bring every together.

  7. #7 by jbhlee on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:05 pm

    Lit, we need innovation to succed. In 1999, DAP was hammered because of the cooperation with PAS. The situation is different now. PAS has mellowed knowing that hardline policies does not work in multi racial States. DAP should also mellow down. Like I said previously, Malays will not vote for DAP while Chinese will not vote for PAS. This round, all races vote for DAP as well as for PAS. This augurs well for the nation. The Barisan Rakyat concept is workable. Please think about it. DAP will never be able to rule alone. Somehow one day you need PAS badly in Penang…until that day, i hope you do and say something positive.

  8. #8 by tsk on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:07 pm

    Kit Siang, ask your son- Guan Eng dont cancell the DEB. DAP may lost many votes from Malays in the next election. Dont forget Malays also contributed a lot to DAP on Mac 8 election. and be remember most of people vote opposition parties because they against BN, not because of supporting opposition. Think twice before make any policy decision and statement to press. Dont give chance to BN to use any issue to make people against DAP, especially the race issue.

  9. #9 by I Malaysian on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:14 pm

    Like most readers my view is that any objections or rejections must have been made before presenting the final paper to palace, not after. This last minute reverse in your stance somehow portrays that DAP leadership failed in its communication not only with state DAP but also with other coalition partners. It was evident again when Syed Hussein of PKR came out with his stance on seat allocation.
    Being top leaders with years of experience you with your counterparts could have avoided this misunderstanding all together if sensitivity and consensus were observed.
    However, I’m greatful to all level leaders from PKR-DAP-PAS for resolving the issues amicably and responsibly.

  10. #10 by tony on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:17 pm

    Dear Yang Berhormat, Congratulations. In this new area of uncharted blessing it is advisable to seek counsel to say the correct things as the nation is listening. For instance, do not say that you would do away with NEP rather say that NEP would be implemented in its true and scared form i.e to eradicate poverty among ALL races. That would be clearly appreciated by all races. Issues such as songkok, baju melayu are trivial. Wear a baju melayu and a songkok with your dear wife wearing a sari for a official function as this will shut the racists BN for sure. The die hard supporters of DAP should be able to grasp the paradigm shift that we need Malaysians for all malaysians. Yang Berhormat, you need more Malays and Indians in your party. If you have done that then you would have a malay DAP mentri besar in Perak. Well you didn’t see it coming but since it has come, think from hearon as a National Leader for all Malaysians. We the rakyat expect good governance and righteousness in Everything that the current PKR-DAP-PAS undertakes. Please remember that the BN is not that bad if we remove all the scumbags who are corrupted and racists from the party. The PM is a good man its the snakes that surrounds him that made him look bad. Note that all this can change for the better thus it is crucial that BR ( yes sir it exists ) arise and be countered worthy. May the blessing of the good Lord rest upon you and BR.

  11. #11 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:17 pm

    “It is not for Raja Nazrin to select the person he feels is best for the job. He is a constitutional Monarch and is obliged to follow the will of the people.” Malaysian. Democrat

    It is for the Malay Ruler of the state of Perak (or the person who represents him i.e. the Regent) to appoint, in his discretion, the person who commands the confidence of the political party which has won the popular mandate as MB and then for the MB to appoint members of his EXCO.

    In the case of the Federal Government, the Agong has discretion under Article 40 Sub-clause (2) but acts upon advice. Similarly the Regent in the case of the state of Perak may act in his discretion but that discretion has to be justiciably exercised and does not extend so far as to include actually choosing one of three names put forward to him. The Regent acts on advice. Where is the advice when three names were proposed instead of one? As constitutional monarch he is above politics – meaning not only that he is supposed to act on advice but constitutionally speaking has no political view or preference. His personal views do not matter. The discretion given to him is narrow and limited and exercisable only when there is no clear leader in the party that has won the mandate of the people. Yes, I would agree that it is not for the Ruler or the Regent in his absence, to select the person he feels is best for the job.

    “ The will of the people gave DAP the majority of seats by a long way. He should have chosen Ngeh [deleted] . Raja Nazrin was wrong to elect the minority party. That is not democracy.”

    The leader from the party that has won the elections and therefore the popular mandate to rule and who commands the confidence of his party should be the only name forwarded to the Ruler. The DAP may have won the most number of seats but in this case they would not be able to form the state government on their own without the cooperation of the other two members of the coalition. The coalition won the popular mandate to govern. Together they exercise the will of the people. You are wrong when you say that the will of the people resides with the DAP. It resides with the coalition.

    “In Perak, DAP won 18, PKR 7 and PAS 6 seats out of a total of a 59-strong Assembly while in Selangor, PKR won 15, DAP 13 and PAS 8 seats out of a total of 56-strong Assembly” YB Kit


  12. #12 by lkt-56 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:21 pm

    Yup, time to move into uncharted waters. A journey into the unknown will bring forth new learnings that will propel us towards a NEW DAWN and hence a NEW MALAYSIA.

    May the new coalition government in Penang, Perak, & Selangor take the lead to show the people that they can make it work and come the next GE the enlightened people of Malaysia having seen the results in Penang, Perak & Malaysia will decisively vote not only state governments but also a federal government comprising of the coalition.

    To those who fear PAS I have this to share:

    Some look fierce, but are mild.
    Some seem timid, but are vicious.
    Look beyond appearances;
    Position yourself for the advantage.

    Makkal Sakthi!

  13. #13 by MikeTango12 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:27 pm

    Fully agreed that DAP would not have got the results DAP wanted without the votes from ALL MALAYSIANS irrespective of race. I would say it is time to move on … remember it is your vision of a Malaysian Malaysia, so DAP have to work hand in hand with PAS and PKR.I think you should spare a thought of the Barisan Rakyat concept if DAP wants to achieve this MALAYSIAN MALAYSIA concept.So onwards to MALAYSIAN MALAYSIA !!!!

  14. #14 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:28 pm

    “In Perak, DAP won 18, PKR 7 and PAS 6 seats out of a total of a 59-strong Assembly while in Selangor, PKR won 15, DAP 13 and PAS 8 seats out of a total of 56-strong Assembly” YB Kit

    DAP failed to win the popular mandate to govern in these two states. The coalition did i.e. DAP together with PKR and PAS did.
    So let’s be clear about that.

  15. #15 by Saint on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:28 pm

    Saudara Lim, Yes we understand your predicament; but political diplomacy is one important character DAP representatives should learn from now onwards.

    Initial close door negotiations; followed by press statement then a visit to the Royal Palace should have been the procedure.

    Jumping the gun as in the days of “the opposition” era is not possible now. Patience and understanding (even during protests) plus pair play and justice is all we are looking for now.

    Good luck, and you have our support – as always.

  16. #16 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:30 pm

    I am glad the moderator agrees with me as to the relevance of Sec. 3 Sedition Act.

  17. #17 by fullfilth on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:32 pm

    everytime I read LKS post and readers comment I feel scare.

  18. #18 by alexx on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:35 pm

    Some Barisan spent 50 yrs still can’t make it nice for all…

    Barisan Rakyat won in the state just slightly more than 5 days, no doubt there will be lots of hard jobs troubling you guys…

    Keep carrying on and take care of your health Uncle Lim…

    And it is agreeable that we have much more votes from all races in contributing the win of DAP PKR, as well as non-Muslim votes for PAS as well in GE12. Barisan Rakyat now are really a coalition which built by voices from all races and all religion and its truly for all..

  19. #19 by cmbss on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:36 pm

    YB Lim,

    You already aware the tsunami has changed the political landscape completely.

    You said “Voters transcending race and religion when casting their vote, with Malay, Chinese and Indian voters casting their vote for “Change” regardless of race and religion” (Do not take for granted the momentum of this change)

    DAP’s 2008 Election slogan is “Jom Ubah”. We rakyat have chang. Can DAP also change, please?

    Good things won’t come without initial sacrifice.

    Please start talking to PAS, voice your concern. PAS may also want DAP to hear their’s as well. PAS may have changed. Look at the profile of PAS candidates, they are not those UMNO types. Never try never know. History may be used as a guide only, but not necessary be used to gauge the current landscape. We are globalised!!!

    ALL must change.

    The Rakyat started to change, why not the political parties do the same.

  20. #20 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:37 pm

    Commentators would do well to exercise restraint when commenting about the role played by the Regent of Perak in the appointment of the state’s MB recently. You could get YB Kit in very hot soup!


  21. #21 by Loyal Malaysian on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:42 pm

    We are in unchartered waters. Yes, you will need to explain to your die-hard supporters who are strongly against working with PAS.It is necessary that the opposition parties not squander away the goodwill of the rakyat who voted for them in order to deny BN that 2/3 majority. You must take the lead to bring about the development of a more civil & democractic society in our country. The rakyat is keeping track and 5 years will pass quickly.

  22. #22 by penang308 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:43 pm

    Dear Kit Siang,

    We all know that it is not an easy decision. If we look at the broader picture, we have no choice. If we don’t do it now, when can we do it?

    The achievement is not from one community(“the chinese”) alone but from all rakyat regardless of race and hopefully, this is the 1st step to create what you have been preaching all this while, BANGSA MALAYSIAN.

    The BN has been successfully SPLITING Malaysian into classes so that they can ENRICH THEMSELF! SPREAD LIES through their control media so that the rakyat do not TRUST each other.

    Now, the Barisan Rakyat has form government in 5 states, it is time to show the rakyat the new horizon. It can only be achieved through CLOSE COOPERATION among the leaders. Remember, the BN is WATCHING! DO NOT LET THEM HAVE THE CHANCE TO “HENTAM BACK!”

    I understand the feed back from the market visit is “mixed” because majority of them do not visit this “blog” and BN has “SCARE” them through their media. Remember, “ACTION SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS”, proof to them that this coalition goverment can work TOGETHER AS A TEAM FOR THE RAKYAT that there is no self interest among the parties.

    REMEMBER, THERE ARE MANY MANY GENERAL ELECTION IN YEARS TO COME, we do not want this “VICTORY” to be “ONE OFF” VICTORY. We still have a LONG LONG WAY TO GO, at least at this moment we can say that “WE HAVE HOPE!”


  23. #23 by musyu99 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:46 pm

    YB LKS,
    Sekali lagi saya ingin beritahu, saya berbangsa Melayu dan beragama Islam. Minta maaf kerana saya kurang pandai untuk menulis dalam bahasa Inggeris. Walaubagaimanapun saya akan belajar menulis dalam bahasa Inggeris kelak.

    Sebelum PRU12 rata-rata orang Melayu mengatakan DAP adalah parti untuk kaum China jika dipandang dari segi corak politiknya dan sokongan. Manakala PAS pula memperjuangkan Islam dan PKR dituduh sebagai panting untuk seorang individu.

    Memandangkan majoriti rakyat sudah jelek dengan kepimpinan BN, jadi mereka telah bertekad untuk mengundi parti DAP/PKR/PAS tanpa memperdulikan ideologi parti berkenaan asalkan BN dikalahkan dan di ajar secukupnya. Rata-rata rakyat ini adalah dari kalangan pelbagai kaum yang mengundi parti alternatif bagi menafikan majoriti kepada BN. Jadi, adakah YB berasa kemenangan besar DAP/PKR/PAS ini adalah kerana kredibiliti dan merit masing-masing? Sudah pasti jawapannya tidak. Sokongan bonus kepada pakatan ini adalah disebabkan kepincangan dari parti BN dan kelemahan pucuk pimpinannya dan rakyat membuat keputusan nekad untuk mengundi parti pakatan ini.

    PRU12 ini telah mengubah corak politik negara dan sudah pastinya DAP/PKR/PAS perlu juga meroboh mengikut arus semasa. Dengan slogan DAP: JOM UBAH! Oleh itu DAP perlu berubah bagi membela nasib rakyat Malaysia tanpa mengira kaum dan agama. Begitu juga PAS dan PKR.

    DAP/PKR/PAS perlu menjelaskan kepada ahli-ahli mereka betapa perlunya untuk mendapat sokongan rakyat dari berbagai kaum dan agama. Bukan sekadar seronok dan bangga untuk melihat kejatuhan BN. Perjuangan politik adalah bertujuan untuk semua rakyat Malaysia. Yang sudi mendengar rintihan rakyat. Yang sanggup duduk semeja dengan parti yang mempunyai ideologi lain berbincang, bermuafakat bagi kesejahteraan rakyat. Kita perlu ubah suasana politik perkauman dan eksterimis. JOM UBAH!

    Alangkah bangganya sebagai rakyat Malaysia yang berbagai kaum kita dapat hidup dalam keadaan harmoni dan hormat-menghormati antara satu sama lain tanpa sebarang perasaan prejudis.

    Dalam para terakhir artikel YB… “It is time to move on into the new uncharted Malaysian political waters”.. Angin perubahan telah dapat dilihat di negara ini dan kemahuan rakyat seluruhnya dapat dirasai. Terima kasih kerana YB dan penyokong DAP dapat menerima angin perubahan ini. Kita faham ini akan memakan sedikit masa untuk menjelaskan kepada akar umbi. Namun realitinya jika persefahaman dibentuk, pakatan ini akan dapat terus maju untuk membentuk satu bangsa Malaysia.

    Perlu diingat bahawa pihak lawan sentiasa mencari peluang untuk melemahkan pakatan ini. Perkara-perkara kecil sekalipun boleh di ulas menjadi besar seolah-olah pakatan ini gagal. Sebagai penyokong kepada pakatan ini, saya yakin pemimpin-pemimpin PKR/DAP/PAS akan dapat bersatu hati menyelesaikan masalah yang timbul secara bersama dengan lebih bijak.

    Akhir kata….. JOM UBAH!!!!

  24. #24 by DY on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:46 pm

    ok..ok.So Pas is the MB. What is wrong with that.Call ourself Bangsa Malaysia?? We need to change for the better.Afterall we got rid of BN.

  25. #25 by pulau_sibu on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:46 pm

    I think you and anwar have done the most reasonable job for Malaysia. Forget what BN Chinese parties on what they are trying to fasly accusing you of selling the Chinese to PAS. DAP should teach Chinese to respect other religions like what Anwar taught the Malays to vote for Chinese. We should not be too selfish.

    I do felt disappointed with the Sultans, however, based on the way they picked up the MBs. But this is happening in other states as well, on BN! May be the Sultans decided to show their power now, when BN turned weak. I guess you guy should decide if to chnage the rules by amending the constitution. Under the democratic system, the majority should be the winner.

  26. #26 by same chong on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:48 pm

    you are now part of the administration. from sin chew – ??????.

  27. #27 by Noor Aza Othman on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:50 pm


    I have written before the election all over that PAS is double-face, no different to UMNO. It is only interested in gaining as much ruling power as it can and will say anything to gain that power. It is a party like Umno, that is based on racial, religious and ultra-nationalist (of a supreme Malay-Islamic nation-state) politics and hence will forever stands in contradiction to a mature and progressive nation-state of truly democratic Malaysia in the future that promotes true equality and liberation for all. I do not think it is too late to rectify this grave mistake of having PAS in the Opposition coalition in the first place as I believe if Anwar & Keadilan plus DAP stand firm with their conviction (I applauded Anwar’s and DAP’s brave stand against the racial based affirmative action New Economic Policy i.e. NEP); there is great potential for Anwar to intensify the effort of changing the mindset of brainwashed Malays. Especially within the ordinary population; who are still brainwashed into supporting the undemocratic and unjust NEP and “Ketuanan Melayu-Islam” (i.e “Malay-Islamic Supremacy”) ideology. For many educated Malays, NEP & such racist, sexist and fascist ideology are no more relevant since many have been exposed to liberal and progressive democracy system and universal human/women’s rights as initiated in the west. (I am talking about the progressive west here in the EU such as the Scandinavian countries). And these Malay educated population are the ones who might be able to influence their parents or relatives from the Malay rural population and low income communities particularly. It is worth a try, and why not?

    And to also have in mind that Umno is going to play more dirty in the next election by having “indigenous/bumiputera/Malay” identity as constructed from religion rather than from race/ethnicity. This is the reason for the founder of so-called “JUST” Malaysian NGO, Chandra Muzaffar’s dirty and deceitful outburst against Anwar; in order to prepare the groundwork for enabling Indian Muslims to gain such “indigenous” identity in exchange for loyalty and support for Umno. Whilst their elite-class enrich themselves of course with all the privileges. This is also very dangerous for the opposition as this will enable Umno to buy increase voting support for them in the next election. Besides granting citizenship and possibility of such “indigenous” identity to only Muslim migrant workers from Bangladesh, Pakistan, and Indonesia, and Muslim refugees of Burmese, Filipino and Southern Thai background including in Sarawak and Sabah, in order to also garner that increase votes and loyalty to Umno (this also explains partly the big winning in Sabah and Sarawak for the ruling Barisan National coalition i.e. BN as I noticed when in Sabah and Sarawak how surprisingly many such migrants easily attain citizenship). So I fully support the bravest and wisest opposition leader of all, Lim Kit Siang for taking such a firm stand against PAS on the issue of MB Perak’s position. Besides, there you can see how greedy for power and double-face PAS is; they already gain two states of Kedah and Kelantan. Why can’t they back-off and compromise on the Perak MB issue if they are genuinely co-operating with the coalition partners especially since DAP won the most seats anyway? I never trust PAS and never will; because I have grown up and realize true democracy and universal human rights that cut across race, religion and ultra-nationalism are the greatest rewards for humanity. Particularly in a world dominated by greed, arrogance and selfishness. And as long as the capitalist-elite system and class rules the world and humanity! And male politicians including from the opposition; please do listen and take advise from the women sometimes.

    And long live DAP & Keadilan! At least, I could breath again a little bit in this sorry nation-state!

    [email protected]

  28. #28 by pulau_sibu on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:50 pm

    The coalition should seek way to get rid of the BN FEDERAL government NOW. Just 35 more seats, perhaps less now as some in UMNO wanted to go against Abdullah. Who knows about the tsunami. After the 26th Dec 2005 tsunami in Sumatra, another earthquake happened after that. So the second political tsunami should be coming. why not announce a shadow cabinet now?

  29. #29 by moonxz on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:50 pm

    I am Perakian and are so sure that the DAP-PKR-PAS coalition will bring the changes to Perak. Always remember you are no more opposition but leader in our Perak state to bring hope and lead us “move forward”.

  30. #30 by same chong on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:51 pm

    you are now part of the administration. from sin chew – Reform not revolution.

  31. #31 by buaya on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:52 pm

    uncle kit,

    We are not fear of PAS (anymore) and we are moving ahead of the old mental, I think you should realise that and moving ahead with us too!

  32. #32 by oedipus on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:53 pm

    Uncle Kit,

    Lets do it for Malaysia and lets make Malaysia for all Malaysians. We will never know unless we try, and i believe as much as DAP is learning about PAS as its new bedfellow, PAS is also learning to be flexible and learn about DAP.

    But one thing i know for sure, both DAP and PAS has nothing but good intentions coming into this coalition, and perhaps Uncle Kit, WHY NOT GIVE MALAYSIA A CHANCE?

  33. #33 by Loh on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:55 pm

    We have seen the weakness of coalition party where the stronger one dictates and the weaker ones had no choice of pulling out from the coalition government without immediate averse impact to the stability o the country. In the case of coalition government formed out of the political parties who agree on a common objective they can stay one as long as they keep to their agreement. The composition can differ come the next election. In that sense, DAP can cooperate with PAS as long it does not insist on Islamic state. DAP can withdraw from the government as and when needed.

  34. #34 by Tim Sng on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:55 pm

    Sdr Lim Senior,

    [I call you Saudara because of your long-time belief and advocacy of a Malaysian Malaysia.]

    DAP, being a nearly totally Chinese based party and grassroot support, at this time, has not choice but to be a part of the ruling [not Unruly] team with PKR and PAS.

    More important is a total revamp of the party, to make it a truly multiracial party and practise what it preaches – A truly Malaysian party.

    As for your members and supporters, please urge them to be a truly Malaysian Malaysian.


  35. #35 by stnaaron on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:56 pm

    hello! to all

    please ensure that we are not traps in threshold of BR opposition dirty agenda that can split BR. you guys have to work like in a team. you and the rest of the team are statesman ( Kerajaan Baru ) now and no longer opposition political figure head.

  36. #36 by drngsc on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:58 pm

    Congrats KIT and DAP, for a very successful election. For some reason, I was removed from your website, for a few weeks before the elections. Am glad to be back again. Yes, we are in uncharted territory. Like all challenges, there is always an opportunity, to show your true colours. We are all watching to see if DAP will rise to the occasion. If you wish to be a National party, I believe that you must learn to work with PKR and even PAS, for the good of Malaysia. Study Islam and Islamisation to see how to make in work in multi-religion Malaysia. I was hoping that in Perak, DAP or PKR will lead, but work closely with PAS and show us all, that in multi-racial Malaysian Malaysia, we can work together. It is not easy, but important. Help us to realise a Bangsa Malaysia. Please continue to keep a very open channel of communication with us, the rakyat, so that you do not become narrow with only the views of your advisers. Know the ground. They are your friends. Try not to be a one term coalition. May I suggest that YB Lim Guan Eng, take a few lessons on how to handle the press, or should I say, the hostile, not on your side press. Please tell the young man to be careful. He is a National leader now. And most of all, God bless Malaysia, and God bless you. We all want to see you all succeed.

  37. #37 by garfield on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 6:58 pm

    Its ok Uncle Lim. As long as the opposition rules with transparency its a good governance. It may be a fragile coalition but let there be understanding among all the elected reps. Show them loose coalition also can rule till the next election. I hope with the new administration in the local council we will see more efficiency in the clearing of drains and rubbish by the city councils.

  38. #38 by laufuzhe on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:01 pm

    The following are from Malaysia Today.
    “Teng Chang Khim of DAP wants to become the Deputy Menteri Besar of Selangor. He has organised demonstrations the last couple of days to pressure his own party into proposing his name for Deputy Menteri Besar. But he refuses to wear a songkok.
    The formation of the Selangor state government has to face delay just because, amongst others, one DAP man wants to become a Chinese ‘hero’ by refusing to wear a songkok.”
    Could you please confirm if these are correct? If it is, then I would certainly agree with Raja Petra’s statement below;

    “And I suggest Teng also not be appointed an EXCO Member or else he would be placed in a serious dilemma as to whether to wear a songkok or not when he has to appear before the Sultan to take his oath of office. What is so jijik about a songkok? There are more important things to do than fight with the Sultan over what we should place on our heads when we appear before His Highness to take our oath of office. We have Selangor, the most important state in Malaysia, to run. Do you mean to say that just because of a songkok you are prepared to let the whole state government fall?”

  39. #39 by Malaysia sayang on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:05 pm

    Dear Mr. Lim,….I have no wish to ask you how to do your job but for the sake of those who took the greatest risk to vote in the Coalition (PKR-DAP-PAS) think before you act and this is also applicable to the other partners. A good general can see ahead of him what might happen thru his actions. Are you a proative general or are you still basking in your glory i.e David had destroyed Goliath.
    You have the experience of politics and I am sure your party treasures your advices. There is nothing more dangerous than rumour-mongering and please do not fall into the trap by giving the Barisan Nasional the amunition. Words spoken cannot be taken back. Like what the chinese said, “You can eat anything you want but you cannot say anything you like”.
    I am sure you are wiser now and humble as well. May God bless you as you help to bring this country Malaysia to it’s senses.

  40. #40 by Tim Sng on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:09 pm

    Sdr Lim Senior,

    Pinjam your site to comment below:

    When should a Leader quit?

    When should a leader, a patrol leader [PL] quit? This may help any PLs out there who are still wondering, – “To quit or not to quit”.

    On a serious note….

    Patrol Leaders should quit….

    1. When they lose control of the Patrol, with 5 groups running off to do things their own way, and only 8 left with you. Half of 13 is 7, only 2 more added and 5 becomes 7.

    2. When there is a call from outside and within, during a crisis like no1.

    3. When your key leaders drop-off, leaving you functioning without your hardcore supporters and leaders. The position becomes very unstable.

    4. When you actually lose control, and become crippled in decision making. You lose majority support, and manage with a simple majority.

    5. When your predecessor tells you to quit, and there are hints from your successor!

    6. When your loved ones, those close to you, advise you, especially your wife, because they do not want you to get hurt.

    7. When you cannot control the situation at the ground level – on the streets, in the party machinery, and they stop taking orders from you.

    8. When your supervisor [PL’s sovereign super-Visor], rebuts, refutes, rejects your choices. This is a strong sign that your foundation is shaking.

    9. When the YL [youth leader] or next generation get `restless legs’ and start marching on the spot, it means they want change.

    10. When the man in the street feels so, and writes in your neighbour’s blackboard, opposite your house.

    These are 10 reasons for PL to think really hard. I like that man, a good one, a Mr Nice, we will miss him – but destiny is such, it may be time for him to go. Honestly, I feel very sad for him, because we had so much hope in him, when he came on after MM [not Malaysian Malaysian]

    If PL stays on in the above situation, it will drag in such a way that will erode confidence in the highest office. Maybe, a few months grace till Merdeka 51.

  41. #41 by patriotic1994 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:09 pm

    I was unhappy over the earlier press statement because it went against Sultan’s decision. It is Sultan’s responsibility to choose the MB and thus he is the one that bear the consequence, not DAP or PKR or PAS. So DAP only can recommend. That’s my logic.

    Anyway, I understand DAP’s position and why Kit make that statement. It is all explained in your blog. I also understand DAP is not a racist nor anti-malay.

    I felt more confident with DAP than BN because we can give comment to Kit thru the Blog, and you response. Unless MSM, it is one-way, and you can’t hear the comments. The result is disastrous.

    Do note that it is the readers of the Internet first supported DAP and help spread the news to others to vote Opposition.

    I wish any DAP announcement should be made in the Blog only and let the MSM pick it up from the Blog. This way MSM cannot twist it. Is it good? This move also force MSM to behave themselves.

    Having thousands of advisors worldwide is better than a handful of your DAP committee. Right?

  42. #42 by UzMiNoOnist on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:10 pm

    Dear LKS,

    Please look beyond DAP for continuing voters’ support especially from non-Chinese. Here you have a rare opportunity to show your statesmanship and proof that you are (and DAP) one class above the component parties of BN.

    Now, we have Anwar who can draw such a big support from Malay voters, so we expect both of you to work together for Satu Bangsa Satu Negara.

    FYI, I am a Chinese and I have voted for PAS (State) and PKR(Parliament). See.. even me as an ordinary citizen can look beyond the communal line, so I sincerely hope you (or DAP) do too.

  43. #43 by teejay on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:11 pm

    Uncle Kit

    I have been a DAP supporter since the 70’s. When I read your blog about the boycott of the swearing in, I was extremely upset and started calling my DAP friends. However once it was clear that our DUN members were going to attend the swearing in cooler heads prevailed and we could see the overall picture. There have been many comments about your decision and many are letigimate ones. I humbly want to say that many of us are armchair commentators. We cannot fully comprehend the burden that you carry for the hundred of thousands of Chinese,Malays & Indians who voted for DAP. I dare say you did not make decision alone without consulting our partners in PKR.

    The easy path would have been to let events go ahead without any comments so as not to “rock the boat”. However you are politician with guts to sieze the bull by the horns.
    You have our full support, you didn’t go to jail for 18 months under ISA (twice) for nothing. You are 10 steps ahead of us in negotiating through this post election mine field.
    As for me I am stay very close behind you.

  44. #44 by pulau_sibu on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:14 pm

    If DAP does not follow the change this time, DAP could become a mosquito party in this tsunami. This is because the boleg politics is also moving along the line of having two major coalitions, like the democrats and republicans in america, or pan blue and green in Taiwan.

    This change in Malaysia is something that no one had anticipated, and it moved in much faster than one expected, so I think you guys are capable of dealing with some unexpectations.

  45. #45 by hiro on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:15 pm

    It seems to me that most commentators would like Uncle Lim to adapt to the new environment, which I have no doubt that Uncle Lim is already doing.

    But we must bear in mind that this forum has so far been limited probably by and large English educated commentators. There is another very large segment of electorate who voted for DAP because of DAP’s tough stand against encroachment of Syariah law into the realm civil rights.

    For a party to suddenly switch its stance because of a new political reality would only be seen as unprincipled. Even if DAP’s stance is to change, there must be serious evaluation, no matter how short the time is.

    We will have Uncle Lim to appreciate if a few months down the line, we find that the new MB start having ideas of increasing the encroachment of Syariah laws into people’s lifestyle. We hope that this does not happen, but that is precisely what the serious evaluation, and eventual horse trading was all about – to minimise the chance of this happening.

    I would therefore take Uncle Lim’s word as face value that it is a learning process and there were teething problems earlier. A workable formula has now been agreed upon so let’s all move ahead with hope, and a little bit of caution.

  46. #46 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:17 pm

    “Another is concern about PAS’ Islamic State and hudud law policies, which are also among the key concerns of those in the latter two categories who give conditional support and those who oppose the idea of a DAP-PKR-PAS coalition government.” YB Kit

    A case of Islamophobia??

    You cannot blame the DAP for having serious concerns – especially now that UMNO is set up to out-Islamize PAS which has made unprecedented inroads into the Malay heartland.

    But the fact remains that this country has a sizeable non-Malay non-Muslim population. It is never in danger of becoming an Islamic state certainly not with shariah law displacing the secular English common law. However, to attribute the recent success of PAS to rhetoric would be to ignore the post 9/11 world that we are in.

    You have to understand the Malay psyche to understand the ‘support’ they give to this idea of an Islamic state. The Malays are never more vocal and more united as when they are on the defensive in trying to defend their way of life. What we are seeing in Penang today is a community that feels threatened. It is all about perception. Facts don’t matter.

    The present crop of UMNO leaders are so corrupt and self-serving that more and more Malays are withdrawing their support for UMNO and turning to the opposition in an effort to stem the abuse of power. It does not mean that they support PKR or PAS.

    As soon as UMNO is able to resolve the internal leadership crisis, purging the leadership of such corrupt elements who have through their activities undermined Malay unity, the flow would be reversed. Kedah and Perak may return to BN come next general elections. I am not so sure about Selangor.

  47. #47 by ENDANGERED HORNBILL on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:20 pm

    A PKR/DAP/PAS cooperation henceforth seems inevitable. Everybody has to move forward constructively and positively to forge a working relationship that benefits all Malaysians.

    I still think PAS can be reasonable and principled. The coalition has to hammer out consensus on a continuing basis amidst the challenges that surface and the new terrain that have to be traversed from now on.

    I still think all Malaysians must stay positive and give this new coalition some brathing space at least for the first 100 days to get their acts together.

    DAP, of course, can and must be willing and prepared to sacrifice for the cause of principles if needs be. But God forbid that such a day should emerge.

    Once again, SYAbas to all 3 parties – PAS/PKR/DAP. Wish you godspeed in all matters of the states.

  48. #48 by Lee Wang Yen on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:23 pm

    ‘I still think PAS can be reasonable and principled.’

    The core principle that PAS holds on to is Islamic State. As Hadi Awang has said, PAS will not give way on the issue of Islamic state, since this is why they are fundamentally different from UMNO.

  49. #49 by aerolancer on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:26 pm

    This election signifies the changes that the nation needed very badly and this has cheered me greatly as an expatriate. On the other hand, I understand that the political landscape within the next 5 years is more treacherous than before. This may be the beginning of an end of an autocratic “democracy”, or the end of the beginning of a democratic reform.
    What form of federal democratic governance do these states want? Constitutional Democracy (as per Charter of Declaration of Independence)/ Rational democracy / socialistic democracy etc?
    What sort of changes do the people really want, in regards to employment, economy, education, religion and race? Perhaps an all inclusive cross sectional socio-economical survey may assist the MBs in making the unbiased and fairest decision? This was not conducted under the BN rule, and hence the shortfall. (Not to mention that the publication of such results reflect the sympathetic and fairer nature of the governing party…. )
    Uncharted territory….ha… a scouting party is the next logical step.
    Let’s hear what the people has to say, the old and the young, the wealthy and the poor, the educated and the illiterate, and act on it!

  50. #50 by cheng on soo on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:29 pm

    Just information, a lot of Chinese in Titiwangsa (W.P) voted for PAS, and also encourage many to vote for PAS (PAS vs BN),
    For non Muslim, in this 2008, PAS is better than UMNO!
    DAP, PKR, and PAS MUST work together, or else, rakyat will be with BN for at least another 20 years, by then, surely it is TOO LATE!

  51. #51 by gofortruth on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:34 pm

    Congratulations Uncle Lim,
    Yes, lets move on.
    All the best & rest well uncle.

  52. #52 by pkrisnin on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:40 pm

    Now everyone has to remember UMNO is the enemy. As predicted they are playing the race card. Using every statement made by DAP.
    DAP has to know how to make statements that make people see logic and shutdown UMNO at the same time.
    Regarding NEP, it should not be removed, it should be modified to server all underprivileged people of all races. UMNO has been using NEP to fill thier pockets by getting contract and sub-contracting it to non-Malays at a higher price. 50 years of NEP and you are telling me there are still huge majority of poor Malays. Of course that true, its prove UMNO has been doing nuts to help most of the Malays. They need a huge number of Malays so they can continue to use NEP to make money. DAP should make this statement.

  53. #53 by CK Lim on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:41 pm

    Dear Mr. LKS,

    I see some hope in this country with the recent political Tsunami(which I previously would not dare to dream that it would happen). I hope that DAP, PAS, PKR and others who advocate justice, fairness, freedom, corrupt-free and progress would cherish this achievement and move forward together to do a good job that may pave way for another win in next General Election that may see the current federal government being toppled. If DAP, PAS and PKR are not united and strong enough to show Malaysians that you can work together and bring positive changes to this beloved country, I am afraid a lot of people would support BN instead in the next General Election.

    For a start, I strongly urge all DAP MPs and State assemblymen to polish up your command of Bahasa Malaysia, learn to know more about our fellow Malays’ life and custom, get closer to them and prove to them that DAP is a party for all races and not for Chinese only. Of course please talk less and work more as well, knowing that mainstream media would not be friendly to DAP in their reporting as in the recent case of Guan Eng’s comment on NEP. THIS IS BECAUSE for so many years mainstream Malay dailies have been brainwashing Malays with an idea that DAP is anti-Malays and anti-Islam.
    We hope to see DAP, PAS and PKR grow stronger and stronger so that we have a balance of power in this beloved country.

  54. #54 by highhand on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:41 pm

    u have to be a visionary to become a revolutionary or reformist.

    pity there are many sore losers around

    i plea the Sultan of Selangor to give the ex dentist two tight slap on his face

    also the sg sungai siput elephant after been brought down now become a mammoth, waiting for extinction…….

    n the Mr LKY should just learn to shut up, perhaps he would if his LSP won

  55. #55 by AhPek on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:41 pm

    ‘working alongside PAS is not only necessary,it is crucial in order for the DAP to successfully handle this new Malaysian reality.’.robleong.

    Working alongside PAS at all cost is suicidal if PAS were to move stealthily and steadily towards the path of islamization and installation of an islamic state.They have not removed their agenda of turning the country into an islamic state.
    However working alongside with PAS towards eliminating corruption,public fund wastages,non transparency,crime,raping cases,marginalizations and institutionalised racial discrimination is HIGHLY DESIRABLE>

  56. #56 by prabavijay on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:42 pm

    Uncle Lim, It would look good if all elected DAP candidates practise good governance, transparency and intelligently and above all proof to BN that we are far fetch better than them to run this country. Issues like NEP can easily be tackled if right ingredients are addressed. 1st of all subject on Malay supremacy should not have been raised at this stage but rather should have waited at least about 6 months down the line. More importantly, we should plan to gain and earn respect among from all races including the Malay. There many ways to do it, if I may suggest taking an example on the issue related projects issued by State governments.

    The first thing should have been done was to investigate the type of projects, cost of the projects, who was the nominated contractors and their background. Maybe you need to get some professional assistance to evaluate on this matter and with current situation there are many consultants out there would more than glad to assist you on this matter. Knowing previous BN Mentri Besar of state government would have awarded a projects 3 times the actual cost and most likely would have practised nepotism or cronyism. From here, you can expose great details like:-

    1) Cost – Why so much was given? when compared the cost given to non-bumi is less.
    2) Quality of work– Good products with superior quality ensures long lasting.
    3) Performance – If given a non-bumi then half the time would have been saved (completing projects on time). More importantly, overheads are reduced which would generate more profits. These profits can be used for good purpose to help the poor and needy – providing electricity, water etc especially in the estates.

    With this triumph card on your hand, we can open the subject on NEP, maybe re-invent name to some other name like NEE (National Economic Equality) or DES (Dasar Ekonomi Saksama) which in turn create Malaysian Businessman with knowledge, experience and understanding sharing among all races. Then the next stage would be to impose all contractors to have equal equity in between Bumi and Non-Bumi, so that the Bumi’s are thought the right way to do business because they claim that they are lacking on business management and entrepreneurship.

    If this kind of arrangement are practice for the next 4-5 years then I don’t see why DAP can be take over the government and rule this country.

    Best Regards,

  57. #57 by just a moment on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:47 pm

    Uncle Lim,
    Yeap, uncharted water indeed, but isn’t it exactly what you hope for all these Years of trying? It is silly to even think for a moment, that DAP can have everything they want.Even today’s parents can feel it with their childrens. Time changed. Whilst we understand and appreciate that you will look after the welfare of Chinese, PAS is of no different for the Malays.
    Sometimes all we need is that opportunity, and this is The Opportunity and you know by now, nothing can be garanteed. Whats required now, more than ever is this Step Of Faith. Believing that whoever the MB, In this case PAS, he will do a good job. Afterall, we all are in “Probation” operiod of 5 yrs?”
    As New Dawn sets in Malaysia for the first time, Someone has to start first in showing trust. Although I wish (Heart) the Sultan will pick a DAP as MB I know (Head) its as good as dreams And it’ll remain so DREAMS. Unless and until we can win the love and trust of Malays, we’ll remain in unchart journey. Its no difference from any marriage, lots of give and take. PAS and PKR surely understand this NOW.
    Anyway, the good news now – Lets look forward evrybody and focus on the target on a “successful’ multiracial State. And when this new Government can put it right, the result can be far-reaching-even to the Rest of the World!Aim for longer term goals while we work hard together for short term goals.
    One more thing, be mindful of ‘Opposition’ every tissue from you all can always turn to Issues! so, march “On All Ye Great people of Malaysia”. Make A Change & Make It Work”!!!

  58. #58 by stnaaron on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:49 pm

    dear msians, “BUY NO PAPERS, READ NO LIES”. d NST, STAR, B.Harian, Utusan, Tamil Nesan & even The SUN r now feeding lies & garbage 2HELP umno ultras 2create racial chaos. they cudnt accept d elections defeat gracefully & r now attackg d oppositn in thru wreckless means via these newspapers. there r bigger problems brewing in UMNO, MCA, MIC, Gerakan & PPP but no mention. d PEOPLE OF MSIA now appeal 2 ALL msians of ALL RACES 2 STOP BUYING THESE PAPERS 4 ONE WEEK EFF. Mon, 17/3 till 23/3. For NEWS go to malaysiakini, malaysia-today, bbc,cnn, al jazeera. lets again show d cowards our unity. pls fwd to 60 people…

    This are the recent message been circulating aroun via sms … Please take not

  59. #59 by tokki20 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:51 pm

    Uncle LKS,

    Your uncharted water is actually the malay people. Did you go around asking the malays also what they think of your controversial decision or you just go to your ‘people’.

    I also wandering if that was DAP central committee decision, why it appeared in your blog. Are you the DAP SEC general?

    The moment PRU12 results were out…..my thought was that you, DS Anwar and maybe Datuk Dr Hassan Ali were busy sorting things out. Hmmm guess I was wrong. Seems like you were busy with the appointment of Penang CM.

    I support moderate DAP leader…just like I support moderate PAS leader……or am I just dreaming?

  60. #60 by Bigfoot on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:53 pm

    Malaysia – the Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the starship DAP. Its five-year mission: To explore and work well with the new PKR & PAS alliance to govern well states won in GE 2008. To right the wrongs of 50-years of BN rule. To ultimately form the new Government of Malaysia in the next GE. To boldly go where no DAP member has gone before.

    I understood all along the predicament that you were facing, given that voters abandoned DAP over its alliance with PAS in 1999. I also know that you have spoken for justice and fairness for all Malaysians, irrespective of race and religion. Given this, I too felt that the accusations that DAP was anti-Malay and anti-Islam was just plain wrong.

    Unfortunately, the whole thing blew out of proportion when you said that DAP was to boycott the swearing-in ceremony in Perak. It was to the extent that you had to apologize. Despite the apology, I saw that people were still annoyed by that action. I suppose that one reason is that the Perak royal family is perhaps the most respected royal families in the country. But I do think that Raja Petra’s Yellow Card is going a little overboard. He should understand the difficulties DAP faces in an alliance with PAS.

    The mood in 2008 is vastly different from 1999. People voted for change. Given this, DAP-PKR-PAS have been forced by voters into a shot-gun marriage. People simply want the DAP-PKR-PAS alliance to work, so that we have an effective two coalition system. PAS, has toned down, so many people say. Perhaps, its also time for DAP to tone down. I am sure that if PAS even attempts to impose Islamic law, that they too will be opposed by voters.

  61. #61 by indiferent on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:57 pm

    Lim Kit Siang,

    I am from Penang, now in FT. My parents are staunch supporters of you/DAP but not their children. From the time we can remember how my parents talks abt politics, abt opposition, we know abt Karpal Singh & your name. Now we have grown up. But non us were DAP supporters. The reason was simple. Both of you made so much noise..majority were empty, no substance, no depth, no strategy, tactless….just YELP & YELP & YELP.

    Well, the last election, our votes were swing. Not just us, but many of our childhood friends/schoolmates/workmates’s too. But it was NOT because we think you have improved (karpal singh did though) but it was all the BN’s doing that disgust us. (Remember & be mindful of this in this term.)

    But it looks like though you have aged, but you are still the same, tactless, lack strategy in tackling situation, w/o objectives in mind…you may have reversed your decision but the damage is done, the trust is chipped. You loose voters right from the moment they put you on the starting line of the race for the next election while the PKR is harnessing their every steps of the way. In the light the 3 opposition parties, you/DAP is the most tactless of all. If the former DPM, with such tarnished image & reputation, they can do better, 18+%. DAP needs to be wiser & smarter.

    The whole swing of the election is big. But please remember, this is not a victory. This is just the start of the race for the next election. The fall in the next election can be even bigger for DAP. So, please, if you are truly for Malaysian (not just chinese, though it is a honourable course to fight for the Chinese), exercise humility with you DAPian internally, go seek their advice on the act you wanna do, especially from the fresh young bloods, have check & balance instead of acting alone in such a haste, ill teamwork which shows through inconsistent stands among you guys will only back fire on you & DAP.

    I hope you/DAP will work really hard to stack trust, integrity, strength, strategy…from now on & no more of all this nonsense.

  62. #62 by highhand on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 7:59 pm

    wonder how umno, mca, mic, gerakan, ppp i.e. the government top politicians, policy makers, strategists, advisers, think tank fellows totally misread rakyat’s sentiment ?

    they have charted a wrong future for Malaysia.

    they do not understand what rakyat needs

    more dangerously in this age of international politico-military-economic conflicts can they manage the country n protect Malaysia and her rakyat interest ?

    i’m afraid no, they have failed the rakyat. i doubt they can manage greater perils aboard.

    but we rakyat will survive somehow…. we pray

  63. #63 by akarmalaysian on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 8:08 pm

    pas ideology is only for muslims as far as i knw.extremism news we heard are only fr the one sided newspapers that are controlled by the crooked government.islamic state issues wont be much of a problem if we are all recognised as true malaysians regardless of our race.islam doesnt go against others in terms of religions.true muslim will nvr claim its supremacy against others.i knw a good muslim whn i see one.and i am sure we as malaysians hv true good friends regardless of different religions among ourselves.we live in a multi racial country…lets not make religions come in our way to claim ourselves as true malaysians.we fought hard to hv this reforms today fr bn and its crooked leaders.lets not throw it away.
    i am a chinese and i dun consider myself a chinese supremo tho my grandparents are fr china.china is such a big super power compared to…err…excuse me if i sounded a little bit harsh…malays?chinese history of brilliance achievements surpasses any of its kind compared to err…ketuanan melayu.and i hv nvr even considered myself a chinese supremo.i am born in this soil…i am a malaysian and i am proud of being a malaysian.these low life scumbags still play ard and fool people with their ketuanan issues.personally and truthfully i dun find anything special abt these ketuanan.wats so special abt this ketuanan thing and wat do u get fr all these ketuanan penipuan?why claim urself to be special above others whn most of these leaders behave like monkeys?will all malays get richer by claiming the ketuananship?
    i just wan to be a normal malaysian like others in this country whr we all hv equal rights and benefits.good leaders will nvr patronise on racial sentiments….those are the idiots we hv seen thru the news fr the websites.they forgot whr they came from.they think god gave them the right to do wat they want.and they can claim themself to be true leaders of the people whn they hv lied,cheated,swindled,instigated and can even get away with the most devious crimes.these idiots ought to win oscar awards for their fine actings.
    abdullah is nothing without the peoples support at one time.we trusted him to make changes…and changes did he certainly made…much worse.hes just an ordinary man with no quality leadership in my point of view as a common citizen.and among all the prime ministers i think hes the most useless of the lot.period.

  64. #64 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 8:17 pm

    Those who keep drumming about PAS and their pursuit of an Islamic state fail to understand that in Islam there can be no separation of state from religion. It is not like PAS has a choice.

    DAP could, of course, choose to withdraw from the coalition in Perak, citing its ideological differences with PAS after having fought and won the elections as part of the coalition of which PAS is a member. It will revert to being just another opposition party and with three parties going their separate ways, BN then forms the state government in Perak.

    Political pragmatism rather than ideology should dictate the role of the DAP if it wants to form the state government. The MB only heads the EXCO. He is not the EXCO. There is a huge difference.

  65. #65 by fjjs on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 8:22 pm

    Uncle Kit,
    Let us face the truth that in order to be able to rule the state by DAP. PKR and PAS we need to co-operate. Cooperation, is the process of working or acting together, which can be accomplished by both intentional and non-intentional agents. In its simplest form it involves things working in harmony, side by side, while in its more complicated forms, it can involve something as complex as the inner workings of a human being or even the social patterns of a nation. It is the alternative to working separately in competition.

    Cooperation, more formally speaking is how the components of a system work together to achieve the global properties. In other words, individual components that appear to be “selfish” and independent work together to create a highly complex, greater-than-the-sum-of-its-parts system. Examples can be found all around us. The components in a cell work together to keep it living. Cells work together and communicate to produce multicellular organisms. Organisms form food chains and ecosystems. People form families, gangs, cities and nations. Neurons create thought and consciousness. Atoms cooperate in a simple way, by combining to make up molecules. Understanding the mechanisms that create cooperating agents in a system is one of the most important and least well understood phenomena in nature, though there has not been a lack of effort.

    However, cooperation may be coerced (forced), voluntary (freely chosen), or even unintentional, and consequently individuals and groups might cooperate even though they have almost nothing in common qua interests or goals. Examples of that can be found in market trade, military wars, families, workplaces, schools and prisons, and more generally any institution or organisation of which individuals are part (out of own choice, by law, or forced).

    Cooperation vs. competition
    While cooperation is the antithesis of competition, the need or desire to compete with others is a common impetus that motivates individuals to organize into a group and cooperate with each other in order to form a stronger competitive force. Many people resort to this because, they may cooperate by trading with each other or by altruistic sharing.

    Move on….cooperation is the word…DAP will make it..as well as PKR and PAS.

  66. #66 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 8:24 pm

    “They have not removed their agenda of turning the country into an islamic state.” AhPek

    How could PAS do something like “remove” the Islamic state concept from its agenda?? Under Islamic theology, there can be no separation of state from religion.

  67. #67 by jbozz on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 8:28 pm

    Dear Uncle Kit,

    Is there any plan to set up a Barisan Rakyat newspaper or television in these 5 states? In Penang, many people are tired without the real news coverage on what’s happening in Barisan Rakyat.

    There are a group of voters, that i used to calm them on what really happening in Barisan Rakyat camp, but it is best if we have a genuine report to substantiate my thought.

  68. #68 by alberttye on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 8:32 pm

    In principle, DAP’s rejection of PAS candidate as MB is correct. It is important for us not to lose sight of our ideals under all cicrcumstances. Otherwise, what is the difference between DAP and other non- UMNO component parties in BN ?
    DAP can exercise flexibility in strategies and tactics, but not fundamental principles on which the rakyat support the party !
    As PAS is showing more moderate stance and conciliartory, DAP can explore the possibility of working with it to find common grounds.
    It must be emphasized again and again that DAP must continue to uphold its founding principles of a Malaysian Malaysia. Otherwise, it will suffer the same fate as Gerakan !

  69. #69 by Democrats on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 8:35 pm

    YB Lim,

    Good to hear from you responding. Your comments have reach 1600 with no new posting…..

    As for MSM, I agree with stnaaron. What was the response of the boycott MSM day last Tuesday? Not effective enough I guess.

    Stop reading the papers!!!! And stop the advertising. Lower reader ratings will make the big guns stop advertising in MSM as well. Really need to get the message across. Get WCW out of a job and those spineless so called “journalist”. Say no to MSM until we get a formal apology from them and an admission of bias reporting before even considering reading them!

    We’ve shown people power through the elections. Now lets show people power to the main stream media, that they are NOT ACCEPTABLE!!


    Get The Sun for FREE! Whether it can be done or not, Ask Selangor Government to issue back up printing and distribution license to give SUN reporters the reassurance and safety net to print the TRUTH!

  70. #70 by devilmaster on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 8:36 pm

    Let us fully concentrate on how to manage these newly acquired states now. The next general election will be determined by how the coalition DAP/PKR/PAS able to perform this term. We should not let BN to capitalise on issue especially with the mainstream media being their mouthpiece.

  71. #71 by Michael Sun on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 8:36 pm

    In politics, there is no permanent friends nor permanent enemies, we just have permanent interests.

    The Perak MB situation is unique and very challenging to the DAP leadership. The present formula of 6:3:1 for DAP/PKR/PAS is a good compromise. As I said earlier, a PAS MB is just a figurehead. With DAP controlling 6 out of 10 EXCO seats, there is no way PAS MB can do anything.

    This is similar to Penang during Koh’s time as CM. Koh was the CM but UMNO was the taiko and call the shots.

    DAP supporters must learn to see the forest rather than the tree. Even PAS has toned down the Islamic agenda. With Sabah and Sarawak being “Christian” states and they hold 30% of the parliamentary seats, PAS alone as a party, cannot garner 2/3 majority in Parliament.

    I must thank and applaud Kit Siang for being a real stateman by apologising to the Perak Sultan. Strangely, UMNO leaders in Perlis and Trengganu have offended the royalty with great impunity and have yet to apologise.

    Thank shows DAP has come of age. One up for DAP.

  72. #72 by gitf701 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 8:39 pm

    Uncle Kit, my family and my clan give you and DAP our 110% support!

    Continue to keep your heart and mind close to the ground, stick to your age old principles and you would be rewarded in Heaven.

    Now, go do what must be done. Cheers! Bravo!

  73. #73 by patriotic1994 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 8:43 pm

    Remember our logic to vote Opposition is: Not-BN. This mean we will support PAS if that is the only choice.

  74. #74 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 8:45 pm

    “This is the reason for the founder of so-called “JUST” Malaysian NGO, Chandra Muzaffar’s dirty and deceitful outburst against Anwar; in order to prepare the groundwork for enabling Indian Muslims to gain …” Noor Aza Othman

    Chandra and I went to school together. He was then Chandrasekhran Pillai. I can testify to the impeccable integrity of this man. When he said Anwar was dishonest, he was comparing the old Anwar to the Anwar who has been incarcerated for daring to oppose his mentor. He chooses not to acknowledge the ‘rehabilitated’ Anwar. Anwar’s worst enemy today is himself as he struggles to restore his credibility.

  75. #75 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 8:51 pm

    Chandra Muzaffar is not one of those Indian Muslims who tend to be more Malay than the Malay themselves. He is a convert to Islam.

  76. #76 by ipohites on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 8:51 pm

    Uncle Lim, you will always have our supports…. We thank you for the sacrifices you and the fellow DAP members had done for us. Keep it up!

  77. #77 by Libra2 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 8:53 pm

    One swallow does not make a summer.
    One solitary PAS MB cannot be a great threat to non-Muslim rights when there are so many DAP reps who will put him in place.
    In fact DAP will have to dictate things to him , not the other way round.
    He will have to dance to DAP’s 18 + PKR’s 7 tune.

  78. #78 by bolehlandor on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:02 pm

    YB Kit

    Now you are a part of the State Administration i.e. the State Government, As such you will have to alter your perspective of things. You no longer belong to the opposition! Those BN scoundrels are now in the the opposition.

    As such you & your team must adopt the conduct of the ruling party. Yes there are new details that you are not accustomed to; new concerns that have never been raised & new responsibilities that must be upheld better than those useless BN opportunists. There will be many more new governing experiences to agonise about but that is what you have always wished for as a veteran politician, isn’t it? So go forth & give your best shot using your ample experience and intellect. The rakyat is all behind you in your quest.

    Please do not be apologetic about sharing power with the PAS & PKR. Without the chance to be in the ruling coalition how else can you prepare yourselves to take over the running of MALAYSIA to replace the BN? Best of luck & we the rakyat trust in your judgement. Don’t disappoint us please,

  79. #79 by jbozz on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:04 pm

    Hello! Islamic applied to Muslim, not chinese not indian, so we should respect that, by declaring islamic state should not apply to all non islam, that’s their individual right.

  80. #80 by Windchime on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:04 pm


    I totally agree with you that we are moving in uncharted waters.

    The unprecedented and unexpected win by the opposition, has obviously caused a lot of chaos within all the parties from PKR, PAS and DAP in the early hours of the announcement of the victory. Suddenly, all of you had to come to terms to form the new government for these few states that you have won, instead of just going back to the comfortable position of being the oppositions!

    And I must admit, it must be hard to organise yourselves as the preparations did not take into account this landslide win or tsunami as you have called it.

    In my humble opinion that first few days were the most crucial times, where stong leadership from all parties had to take precedence. That obviously include finding some common ground to work on. It obviously lacked that -judging from how and the way some things have turned out.

    Especially the case in Perak. The names for the MB were supposedly already agreed upon by all the 3 parties, which were then subsequently submitted to the Sultan for his consideration. When the selection was made by the Sultan, there was a total turn around by you guys even suggesting a boycott! So typical of the oppostion ways of doing things.

    This has caused an outcry from all the supporters, especially folks like myself who believed in the concept of the Barisan Rakyat and voted you guys in. We cried out because of concerns that it will be not be beneficial to the cause of creating the bigger picture and agenda and that it would be exploited fully by the BN and its media spins – which in fact they did and are still at it!

    What I could not understand was the lack of communication skills whereby every effort to project the right image and branding for the new coalition government was not capitalised on, at that very critical stage. Instead, there were opposition from every turn against each other in the coalition. This was a sad fact, as it could have worked in your favour and for everyone in the new coalition government. It could have been exploited to the fullest and to the advantage of the new coalition government, to create a different and different image that the BN quite frankly is very worried about. Unfortunately the reverse was true.

    Maybe the state of mind in PAS, PKR and DAP were just that – conditioned to oppose! So, when given the chance to be government – it became totally lost and continued to oppose instead of behaving with political maturity and have all such important decisions and discussions behind closed doors!! (To be fair, maybe not so much PAS as they already had the necessary experience to govern Kelantan).

    And all your concerned supporters could do was to watch in horror, with disgust and frustrations on the sideline as the events unfolded. This has contributed to some 1,600 feedbacks on your blog – some even quite extreme and some comments, uncalled for.

    Anyway, the damage has been done and you must admit, YB Lim, that you had to go on damage control after that, including apologizing to His Royal Highness, the Sultan of Perak and the Regent. That moment could have worked for you but you chose to do it the traditional way – oppose first – talk later. Perhaps you will be wiser after this lesson.

    YB Lim, we have great faith in your leadership but now that you are in the government, moderation will be your most useful tool going forward. Any suggestion of extremism, however unintentional or small will work against you and the oppostion. The BN will capitalize on the issues and will shred you guys like never before even for the smallest and slightest mistake.

    A humble request, please brush up on your PR skills – that goes for all the DAP veterans who wish to move with the times. As an example, I saw the interview on Aljazeera with Riz Khan. Datuk Seri Anwar, when invited to speak, first acknowledged the moderator by calling out Riz’s name. When it was your turn, you jumped straight into the subject totally ignoring the moderator’s presence. The difference was very apparent to me.

    And your YB Teng, was reported not wanting to wear songkok and all (in RPK’s article) will not be well received, especially when you have to deal with Malay protocols. That to me, shows a total lack of PR skills. It also projects an image of arrogance and lack of respect and sensitivity to the royalty and Malay culture although there is totally no such intentions on you and your team’s part.

    Don’t get me wrong, I have the utmost respects for all of you. But hey, sometimes, you will have to face reality and move with the times as I see nothing wrong in showing respect to each other’s diverse culture. Heck, I have even donned a songkok with baju Melayu to boot before. Does that make me any less of who I am? (By the way, I am anak Bangsa Malaysia as I refuse to be associated with any identity of race anymore).

    The ‘opposition’ mentality and approach may not work for you anymore – so please get some advise on how best to deal with these issues and use it to your advantage. Perhaps it is time for you to start engaging professionals to help rebrand DAP and overhaul all the party stalwarts attitudes to fit with the times.

    Anyway, that is my two cents worth. The bigger agenda will force you and everyone else to work with PKR and PAS. This will require a total change of attitude from all. PAS will also have to come to their senses and be moderate as well. This hopefully is a start for better things to come.

    Thank you for listening YB Lim and thank you for giving us an opportunity to give you our opinions. I hope you will discard the ones which are just noises and use the ones (there are many here in your blog) that may help you and the rest move along.

    Let’s move forward to create the bigger agenda for our beloved country. Let’s create the most powerful Barisan Rakyat to take on the BN for the next GE and take our country back from these bunch of backward, racists, low level thinkers – the thieving UMNOputras.



  81. #81 by toast on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:13 pm

    ok i cannot refrain myself from commenting anymore…

    as i am reading all the replies from the previous post and this post, again and AGAIN and AGAIN i see commentors reminding LKS that this is not about the cina community, we must work towards a bangsa malaysia blah blah blah. may i know WHY are you people giving this advice AS THOUGH LKS ever did or said anything that suggests DAP is cina-centric?? about this Perak issue, LKS said what he said due to the reasons he explained above: he is NOT anti-malay – he just opposes PAS, *not* because they are malay but because of their ideology. IDEOLOGY! did he say he doesn’t want PAS so that only the cina community will strive? NO. he doesn’t support PAS for worry of their hudud laws and what not. I know that worrying about all this is beside the point right now as the DAP-PKR-PAS coalition was a ‘forced’ coalition (in the sense that: although they don’t agree with each other, they had to review their priority in order to get BN out!) and they now have no choice but to find a way to work together. I’m not saying that it was right for LKS to boycott the event – I too would have advised LKS to be more diplomatic to avoid damage to the coalition. What I’m saying is: please stop already with the suggestions that DAP is cina-centric/race-centric!! That was never suggested, never what LKS meant! For this alone, I pity LKS for being misunderstood!

  82. #82 by waterfrontcoolie on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:17 pm

    YB, in life, one can slip once in a while, but picking up yourself and acknowledge that slip surely marks you as a leader. Now that, you are one of the main divers, let us move forward and make this country a paradise for all: through honest, transparent, and responsible governance.
    The general public had been frustrated over the last 20 years or so,having been treated like small kids,while they preached all the holier than thou sermons but at the same time cheated and stole from the public coffer. It was because of the pent-up frustrations that turned the table, not by any mean the oraory skills or good sale pitch of the Opposition. As a matter of fact, BN WAS BANKRUPT OF ANY IDEA! CORRUPTIONS, CRONYISM and ALL THE HIGH-HANDED ACTIONS OF LITTLE EMPERORS IN LOCAL COUNCILS HAVE HAD CONTRIBUTED TO THEIR DOWN FALL.
    aLL THAT IS REQUIRED OF barisan raayat IS TO UNDO THOSE ISSUES PLUS HOW CAN THEY MAKE TOLLS A LESSER BURDEN to the average Malaysians. If they continue to increase as per so-called contract, THEN the 5 State Governments must plan to build ‘OUTLETS’ to allow diversion of traffic away from THESE TRAPS.

  83. #83 by pulau_sibu on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:22 pm

    did you notice that the chinese and english versions of malaysiakini may be slightly different contents even for the same piece of news. one obvious tone was with the call of abdullah to step down by mahathir junior the other day. the chinese version mentioned specifically about call for stepping down, but not the english version. There are also slightly different tone about the coalition government.

  84. #84 by kslaw70 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:23 pm

    I heard YB T Teng of Sg Pinang is not in the lists of DAP Exco summited to Tan Sri Khalid (Latest news in Merdeka Review). If this is true, I doubt the criteria for choosing Selangor Exco by DAP. Come on lah Uncle Lim, we have better candidate and we Selangor people need and reserve better talent then all those first time state ADUN. (Teresa, Aun Yong, Lau and Ronnie)

    I thought u attack BN on matters pertaining to brain drain caused by BN’s policy. I think u talk cock only.

    DAP is for those with close connection to both Lim fahter and son. shame to u.

  85. #85 by jetaime.f on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:26 pm

    Oh no…..I just spotted it…..is it gonna start again….it has been quite unbearable over the other site….

  86. #86 by mob1900 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:32 pm

    All 3 parties were only aware of the 4th Party, Barisan Rakyat 2 weeks into campaigning, which are the missing link that brought victory ot the Opposition, now the ruling Coalition.

    Now you know who we are, we are here all along, we just do not have names but we will be your checks & balances.

  87. #87 by Ryan-W on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:35 pm

    I don’t quite agree with Undergrad2 saying
    ” I can testify to the impeccable integrity of this man. When he said Anwar was dishonest, he was comparing the old Anwar to the Anwar who has been incarcerated for daring to oppose his mentor.”
    for the simple reason that why did he joined PKR then. If what he (Chandra) says it’s true, then he is also a changed man different from what he was during his school days.

  88. #88 by Lee Wang Yen on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:35 pm

    In Kit Siang’s latest blog entry, he says that DAP had no relation with PAS before 8/3, and that the voters’ choice has created a scenario that led to their co-operation.

    However, this raises serious questions.

    Why did DAP refuse to work with PAS before 8/3? If DAP leaders believed that PAS’s agenda of Islamic state and Islamisation was no longer a problem in this general election, why didn’t they form a coalition with PAS alongside PKR during the election campaign?

    If their reservation about PAS’s agenda led to their refusal to co-operate with them before 8/3, do they seriously believe that this (i.e. PAS’s agenda of Islamic state, which led to DAP’s reservation in the first place) is no longer a problem after 5pm on 8/3?

    If PAS’s agenda of Islamic state, which led to DAP’s refusal to co-operate with them before 5pm 8/3, remains the same before and after 5pm 8/3, DAP’s current co-operation with PAS will be rightly deemed as unprincipled:

    Before 5pm, 8/3, DAP refused to work with PAS because of X; after 5pm, 8/3, DAP is willing to work with PAS DESPITE X.

  89. #89 by alan1957 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:36 pm

    Yes…that was clear mandate in the 2008GE.
    The task now is to revive those DAP-PKR-PAS states esp Penang, Selangor, Perak which effectively are the ‘engineer-rooms’ of Malaysian economy. These states have all the potential to prosper but under the failed federal and BN state government, only a handful of the elites (UMNO-putras) have prospered.
    Those minorities have been sidelined.

    At the fedearl level, DAP-PKR-PAS should set up a Shadow Ministry to keep those Ministers accountable!!!!!

  90. #90 by alberttye on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:44 pm

    We can work with PKR and PAS. But we must not deviate from our principles of equality and freedom for all.
    This is fundamental.
    The purpose of being in the government is to realize this objective, not to compromise this principle!

  91. #91 by pulau_sibu on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:45 pm

    The issue with PAS, DAP and PKR can be resolved if the cabinet will detach themselves from the parties, and make themselves just the coalition members.

  92. #92 by cheeray on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:46 pm

    YB LIM,

  93. #93 by KudaHitam on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:47 pm

    Time moved into uncharted territory after the election night results. Now is time for DAP/PKR/PAS to develop a working partnership, adopt a new mindset to work together to improve the wellbeing of ALL MALAYSIANS. So stop barking and get serious and committed to working with PKR/PAS partners. You also have work fast to develop a new mindset as well.

  94. #94 by azam on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:51 pm

    Yes kit. Don’t feel appologetic for having coalition with PAS and PKR.
    We vote for future Malaysia. Enything else except BN.
    So there are neseccity for coalition.
    PAS has change a lot. They convinced their supporter to vote for DAP. I think this should not be unilateral.
    Husam mentioned that the party commited for new Malaysia and will accept whoever chosen by the Regent include DAP.
    Yes you are the one who will creat new history for Malaysia!

  95. #95 by lohsh on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:53 pm

    DAP, PAS and PKR have, fortunately or unfortunately, been mandated by the people to form coalition governments in Perak and Selangor.

    They have no choice but to work together amicably, effectively and there is no turning back.

    Change is the message the voters have given to every party. UMNO, MCA, MIC and Gerakan have to change to ensure their future survival. DAP is no exception, more so now that it is in a governing position.

    DAP can only stick fast to its party line if it is prepared to remain as an opposition party. But it has reached a point of no return.

    DAP must now be seen to be able to work effectively above racial and religious line, and they must prove it to the people of all races.

    PAS has announced that they will not implement Islamic Law in Kedah. Have not they changed?

    If what Raja Petra writes about Teng Chang Khim refusing to wear Songkok is true, then it will spell further problem for DAP. If Khairy can be seen wearing a Chinese Dress during Chinese New Year festivals, why cant any Chinese be wearing a Songok?

    If refusing to work with PAS and wear songkok can keep the votes of staunch DAP supporters, it will lose the votes of those who vote above racial and religious line and render DAP irrelevant much faster than what happened on 8/3.

    DAP must move on fast, convince the voters that DAP can change to effect change for the better, otherwise the fortunate blessing of being voted in as a governing party can, unfortunately, turn out to be a nightmare of seeing itself disappearing quickly and permanently from the political arena as it cant cope with change, not by a major tsunami but a minor one.

  96. #96 by Lee Wang Yen on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:56 pm

    TO lohsh,

    According to NST online 14/3/08, PAS Kedah MB Azizan says that Islamic laws are still in their agenda though they will come into force later. Islamic dress codes will also be introduced later.


  97. #97 by canning on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 9:58 pm

    Uncle Lim
    The tsunami was a shocker but a welcomed surprise. However as a Malaysian and I do believe most Malaysians want is for the non-BN states to do what has been missing since the BN nightmare began. Transparency, the people first and foremost. These 2 I believe are the most important virtues/guides by which any ruling government should abide. Because if the DAP, PKR, PAS do not deliver this time, then the next tsunami will come from the other side.
    So its time to bury the hatchet and do what is right for the people.
    I live in Canning so I will be observing all that will happen in the Silver state.

  98. #98 by sungaisiput on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:01 pm

    LKS’s recent statement has hurt so many of the voters who voted for the coalition.They feel betrayed as most of them were attracted by the barisan rakyat concept advocated by Raja Petra.I sincerly hope LKS will consider the feelings of these voters when speaking on sensitive issues and not just that of his hardcore supporters.Some of your hardcore supporters really stink with their outdated irrelevant idealogies.LKS must know its not possible to win election esp in malaysia just on the support of hardcore supporters.Please spare some thought for us too.Every DAP mps and assemblyman were voted in not just by DAP supporters but also by PKR and PAS supporters.please think and act wisely for the sake of all Malaysians.

  99. #99 by wycy on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:03 pm

    Dear YB Lim

    It’s high time we all Malaysians have to change our attitude towards making All Malaysian’s Malaysia a dream come true fr 8.3.2008 !

    Keep up your good work and change your oppositional attitude in the future, think before you say, that might help to reduce tension in our present situation now.

  100. #100 by StevePCH on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:07 pm

    Dear YB LKS… let’s hope the next few days will be the end to the “saga” surrounding the appointment of Perak MB.
    As a Perakian, I am very happy to know that our dear Regent has got a baby boy.

    This is also an opportunity fo the coalition to show undivided loyalty to the Sultan and Regent. Well… I really don’t know how, but just plan something nice, simple and meaningful together.

    The Perak Royals had from time to time shown that they are always concerned with the welfare of rakyat by being thrifty and fair. From the days being the Lord President until now, HRH Sultan Azlan has won many hearts and so do Raja Nazrin. Please be of constant contact with the palace ….

    It’s time also to dispel the myth on PAS being ultra Islamist in Perak or most Indians and Chinese will shit in their pant soon and we will see another political tsunami flowing the wrong way this time.

    Prove that the new MB is not bias on his judgements and fair to other religion.

    Prove that PAS is not all out to make non-Muslim to convert. This is our basic inner fear of PAS since childhood.

    Prove that all decisions are collective. Else, it will be very very disastrous to the coalition’s political survival in Malaysia.

    Also, always remember that we the common rakyat voted for you during time when you barely have any support and also grassroots. We ask not to be rewarded but only for the coalition to be extra sensitive to these areas. Go down to DAP voters in places like Ipoh, Sitiawan , Pasir Bedamar etc. They are your supporters when time is really bad and never fails to deliver support to you even when coarce with monetary pledge. We believe in the struggle for a check and balance. Even my aged mother knows that. My late father would have still voted for DAP if he is still around today.

    Power greed should also be shooed away, else, you will only be in power for one term. Your greed will bring you DOWN. The practice and proposal of total transparency is a great step toward eradication of nepotism and corruption.

    All rougue housing developers also will have to be scrutinised and removed as these are also source of miseries to rakyat that BN failed to combat using it’s Danaharta.

    Illegal “lorry hantu” , especially in Selangor is destroying roads in so many parts of Selangor which adds to the question of the effectiveness of enforcements by the local government. There is really no point in repairing the potholes when you can’t plug the source of the problem. Now coalition have a chance to prove that you can curb their activities. Formulate a solution for these lorry hantu and confrontations can be avoided.

    Take good care of yourself as this is a very hard time for you as well. Having so much of different responsibilities and under microscope is so…. hard.

    Let’s hope the coalition is successfull and Malaysia will have a two party system in future and democracy aive.

    Warm Regards,

  101. #101 by Loyal Malaysian on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:07 pm

    If PAS can implement and enforce Islamic laws in Kedah, so be it then. This is the same situation as Kelantan. But voters in Penang, Perak and Selangor have not given them that mandate. As such DAP & Keadilan ought to coperate with PAS to ensure state administrations that are exemplary in terms of good governance, fairness and transparency.

  102. #102 by azam on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:08 pm

    Once again, please don’t use Kit blog to distribute your MCA idea. Taking information from NST.
    Shame on you LWY. This issue has been answer immediately by PAS. Please see Malaysia Today.

  103. #103 by teejay on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:10 pm

    kslaw comments that Teng Chang Khim name was not on the list of exco members submitted to Tan Sri Khalid for Selangor exco. Teng has said on his blog that he is not asking for the post but will leave it up the the “wisdom” of the leadership. Please note that only Team Players are qualified for the posts.Your swear words have exposed your uncouth character. Teng Chang Khim will be thoroughly examined in the areas of cooperation with the other members of DAP, attendance of Selangor DAP meetings and CEC meetings, contribution of his DUN allowances to the National DAP,etc. before any decision will be made. It is considered bad taste to publicly say one is not interested in a post but to actively campaign by the backdoor by demonstrations and postings in various blogs.Another good test of character and loyalty to the party as opposed to selfish ambition will be the response of the unsuccessful candidates after the names of the Exco has been revealed. Meanwhile we wait for the “wisdom” of the leadership to manifest.

  104. #104 by KennyGan on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:17 pm

    YB Kit Siang, the real crux of the matter is whether you want to form a coalition govt with PAS and PKR or RETURN THE PERAK GOVT to BN?

    I’m sure if DAP decides it can’t work with PAS and pulls out, handing the state govt to BN, the political backlash throughout the country would be too dire to contemplate. In the next election, DAP may well be wiped out.

    Frankly, extraordinary circumstances call for extraordinary measures. As others have pointed out, what is so wrong with a PAS MB? Can a PAS MB implement Islamize the state while DAP holds the majority in the EXCO? In fact, I believe a moderate PAS MB (and he has no choice but to be moderate) will augur well to overcome Chinese mistrust of PAS.

    YB Lim, I cannot understand your concerns about a DAP-PKR-PAS coalition. You are still holding the old racial baggage from the past which allowed BN to divide and rule for so long.

    I think you still fear political backlash from your Chinese voters from working with PAS. Your Chinese voters are well aware that DAP has no choice under the circumstances. Please give your supporters some credit, YB Lim. They are not the mindless chauvinists that you imagined. Please get rid of your misgivings and let us all move forward to a Brave New World.

  105. #105 by mybangsamalaysia on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:18 pm


    YB…. how to work together with PAS….???

    If one understand Islamic value, a “God” fearing PAS will implement full version of Islamic laws when they are in power gradually.

    It seems to me that DAP is assisting PAS to fit their agenda together slowly but needly… in the name of “the will of their god”… i.e. PAS MB in Perak… in other words DAP part of the “evil”.

    DAP is a tool for PAS… I hope YB see it clear enough.

  106. #106 by pilihanrayaexpert on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:20 pm








  107. #107 by FromIpohtoIpoh3 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:26 pm

    Well Mr. Lim as you have agreed, this is a new political era. I think squables do happen in and around any kind of fellowship formed. We do encounter it even in our own family. Be it under the federal goverment (as in Perlis & Terengganu) or the new state goverments in Perak and Selangor, problems do arise. Hence, we must remind Malaysia that is not easy to be where we are now….from Malaya to Malaysia. So, do not demonstrate unnecessarily…let the goverment some time to pledge its promises and then we shall judge from there. Once again, the people’s power can prove that we can support/reject the govt who brings successes/fails us.

  108. #108 by hesiew on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:27 pm

    Yes, saudara Lim n all concerned, i fully agree with Saint, please have closed door discussions, negotiations first, then only proceed to have your press conference and so forth. Please do not jump the gun, you are now in different status, no longer the former Mr Opposition! All the best .

  109. #109 by azam on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:27 pm

    I think DAP supporter should take the first hand information. Taking information from NST or star make you stupidest in the world. That’s why no PAS member going for demonstration at Komtar even though UTUSAN and BH a few days published on NEP.

    Once again, the nice of BR is respecting each other. Are you notice it?

  110. #110 by grace on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:29 pm

    Mr Lim,
    I feel Raja Nazrin used his wisdom to select the PAS candidate.
    I believehe did so with good reasons and motives. With Pas as MB with not much support in terms of no of ADUN his action is always checked by both DAP and PKR. Thus he would not dare indulge in excessive spending or abuse of power. Yes, I believe HRH is wise in his choice. To have good check and balance

  111. #111 by alistaire on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:30 pm

    QUOTE : “The mixed reactions could be divided into the following categories:

    • Support;
    • Conditional support with concerns about Islamisation undermining the constitutional rights of Malaysians;
    • Outright opposition, regarding the DAP-PKR-PAS coalition government with a PAS MB as a betrayal of the DAP’s general election mandate.”

    Now, lets change the perspective! As DAP said, just change it! Imagine that LKS was some PAS bigshot instead doing his runs in a Malay area, where the reaction is

    • Support;
    • Conditional support with concerns about DAPanisation eroding the constitutional rights of Malays and the position of Islam;
    • Outright opposition, regarding the DAP-PKR-PAS coalition government with DAP representatives as a betrayal of PAS’s general election mandate to proclaim an Islamic state.

    Doesn’t feel so good now does it? See there are always 2 sides to a coin, and the side worth examining is your own, since its the only part within your control. While you and others here might worry about how PAS proceeds to go about its Islamic agenda, the fact is Malays and Muslims are scared of DAP too. Concerns about Penang becoming another Singapore, etc are just as valid as those fearing another Kelantan in Perak.

    It is true that this election was about rejecting the BN, NOT for support of PAS or DAP. Think about this, LKS before appealling to who are really only hardcore supporters, whose support alone you can never hope on to form government even in Penang, what more Malaysia.

    Learn from the dynamism of the politics practised in other nations, such as the UK. When Labour first came to power in Britain and implemented socialist policies to the chagrin of the Conservatives, their reaction was to concede some ground by choosing to keep some of these policies. Eventually they came back to power. The same with New Labour in the UK now.

    I am a Malay. I have every right to fear DAP as much as any Chinese here might have to fear PAS. I too have every right to Islam as a way of life (including hudud law etc) just as a non Muslim has the right not to.

    However, I am, like DAP supporters, putting aside these concerns for now as like everyone else here, I firmly rejected the BN last election. I know about what Lim Guan Eng in Penang is doing being a good thing, and that he has no plans to marginalise the Malays. I understand what position you were in regarding Perak. All is understood.

    Now you have to understand that support for DAP has for the first time trascended ethnic boundries, and while the Malaysian Malaysia concept was viewed as but a cry of non-Bumis seeking to encroach on the realm of Bumis, now the concept has found acceptance among us Malays. Please do not squander this by appealing to hardcore supporters.

    Time to unite for a Malaysian Malaysia. Time for us to become one!

  112. #112 by Malaysian Circus on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:32 pm

    Uncle Lim,
    I have been a diehard supporter of DAP since time immemorial.This because over time Gerakan and especially MCA have failed to propel the hopes and visions of minority communities.
    Today you are in the watershed of history and I saw one Malay blogger above who believed in you and had to write in Malay to express his thoughts beautifully….he/she is musyu 99.I am proud to stand side by side with him for a better Malaysia because I know Malays today have matured a lot much much more than you think.They were there in Han Chiang, they were there in the pouring rain to hear you speak in the ceramahs.Have you forgotten them?
    Today you can showcase to the world that DAP can work with the Federal Government in Penang as you obtained absolute majority in Penang, work with PAS in Perak to bring glory to the silver state and work with PKR in Selangor where hub of economy is the most vibrant. This is a golden opportunity not to be missed and with careful consideration and political leadership are you not being watched by the world at large where many regions are fighting over ideological differences?
    You can make the difference, Uncle Lim, you have the opportunity to change destiny, hopes and aspirations of 26 million people.
    Do you know how heavy is the responsibility to be the government of ther day? Your remarks and actions together with Eng Guan for the last one week has sent nightmares to the Chinese voters who believed in you.We voted for change and not destruction and as a political statesman , yes , a statesman and I hope it rings loudly among all the DAP politicians who are voted in please carry yourself as a matured, charismatic leaders who appeal across gender and race and look how Obama in United Stares is doing now.
    There is so much heavy responsibilty that comes with the New Government or is it the Larger Govt-in-Waiting that it is about time
    you shed the image as opposition leaders engaged in kampung politics or gangster politics which MCA has a dubious distinction of late.
    Your handling of the DAP announcement of boycotting the swearing in ceremony will cause a rift between the institution of raja and its people and your party in the eyes of the Malays.You do not seem to understand the strong traditions of the Perak sultanage and its popular support among its rakyat.The Sultan in particular has been supportive of judicial reforms and you could have lost one ally in the quest for changes in the Malaysian scenario.
    I think the apology in a press statement is not appropriate and a personal apology is deemed a true statesman who cares for both the rakyat and its Sultan.Like I said before it means a lot to us Chinese voters that the DAP we are voting, is adapting to change and making itself relevant to the 21st century needs and the growing maturity of the urban mindset.At times like this we need friends from different strata of society to break down the racial divide.
    I also call on Guan Eng not to raise the issues of NEP.It is a question of timing and we need forces at work to ride a second tsunami to effect change.Patience, it seems a liability ,at this time among DAP stalwarts I observe of late.
    Today all of you are statesmen and running the government of the day and please make measured statements and not undermine the trust of all communities.
    Pak Lah is correct when he said that as leaders of the state governments one must make measured statements because he has to think of 14 coalition partners; DAP just cannot cope with its 2 partners .It shows your political immaturity.Proof to him DAP can excel and ROCKET Malaysia to greater glory.
    Please, if not for Pak Lah, you will not be where you are now.All I ask please be not combative wirh him.He is as old as you are and respect him and have grace and dignity in doing that which I call on Eng Guan.One of the first things you should have done is to congratulate him on being returned at the Federal Government of the day but I noticed that did not happen.Why?If we are going towards a 2 party government ie.the one being practised in USA and England it is about time to be magnanimous in victory.DAP show them what a true statesman is all about.
    Today globally there is not a single icon or menthor we can look up to as role models.Your problem is the legacy of Mahathir not PaK Lah.Both of you served time in Kamunting and we feel for you and your lives were disrupted but time and again we supported DAP when the chips are down.Be like Nelson Mandela and go beyond Malaysia and please do not carry the Kamunting baggage as you look back with bitterness.Today Nelson Mandela is the world icon who is the beacon for hope and patience.If not for Pak Lah who allowed Anwar free would DAP gather the rolling storms now?
    I have said my piece and I have been on the journey on the less travelled road as a silent supporter of DAP and gave my support at every ceramah and shouted myself hoarse, stood in the pouring rain when you came to USJ 12 and waited at 11.15pm when you made your entrance from Johore and cheering for you at the building across PJ Hilton way back and many many more.
    You are in the threshold of history and history is in the making and I call on your wisdom to do just that and think long term and more importantly make your party relevant to Malaysia and to Malay supporters which I believe is lacking and you should do more to recruit more Malay members now.Look at the way MCA,MIC,PPP and Gerakan faltered on the wayside.Unless DAP reinvents itself and takes a new approach to the younger and matured voters you will be next on the list.
    Lastly perhaps it is about time DAP pay tribute to its fallen heroes who played a big part to where DAP is today like Ahmad Daud, P.Patto etc and I am sure there is a lot of healing to be done.
    Good luck and share the Malaysian dream with all.It is a new dawn.

  113. #113 by kcb on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:33 pm

    LWY, the fact that most people here don’t agree with your views does not mean that they don’t understand what you say.

    You have your view and they have theirs.
    Enough is enough.

  114. #114 by Damocles on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:33 pm

    “Working alongside PAS at all cost is suicidal if PAS were to move stealthily and steadily towards the path of islamization and installation of an islamic state.They have not removed their agenda of turning the country into an islamic state.” – Ah Pek

    How true!
    It seemed that PAS has not renounced making Malaysia into an Islamic state a part of its agenda. It merely kept quiet about the issue! Even if it did, can they be trusted not to revert to form when they are in control of the country?
    Does any Malaysian see that its influence is spreading to other states such as Penang, Perak, Selangor etc?
    Don’t forget that politicians will do and say anything to achieve their objectives!
    That’s the way to lull the electorate. And Malaysians are very easily lulled! Just look at the mandate given to the AAB in 2004!
    Remember? And what a royal mess he made of the country?
    So, once PAS has gained control of the government, is there anyone to stop them from going ahead with installing an Islamic State or even a Taliban type of government?
    Wouldn’t it be too late then to do anything?
    LKS was pushed into a coalition with them, albeit reluctantly and by sheer force of circumstances!
    Don’t any of you realise that?
    Instead there are those who accused him of betraying the interests of the non-Malays and those who accused him of being anti-Malays!
    Would anyone enjoy living in a Taliban type country?
    Let me have your answer!!

  115. #115 by catharsis on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:33 pm



  116. #116 by ahluck on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:34 pm

    i’m very worried with Pas MB.
    once bitten twice shy, twice bitten never try, thrice bitten then go and die.
    until 8pm DAP is not together with pas. after that nevermind lah! twice shy only.
    has Pas removed their agenda of turning the country into an islamic state? given i writing?
    we can marry anyone from any religion and have a rojak family (bloody Malaysian) . but Islam no way.
    there can be no separation from religion.
    PAS MB is down to earth guy now. He will change in no time with Hadi’s pressure.
    Teng Chang Khim refusing to wear Songkok is his right? this is how it will start to be a islamic state. later, Only sunat guys can approach sultans. without doing any wrong we already saying ampuan tuan ku! for what?

    all this need to change la thats why we fight BN.
    ops i talking crap!

  117. #117 by ThePole2 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:47 pm

    i am a citizen from Johor, the traditional BN stronghold and am working in Singapore. just want to share about my sentiment.

    i am very happy with the GE12 results yet disheartened that only after 50 years, that the first death knell (or am i too hopeful?) for racial politics is sounded. while working in Singapore, despite seeing all the govt shortfalls, i truly understand what we could have achieved if we have put this stumbling block aside.

    however, i understand racial politics are so deeply ingrained into all Malaysians through BN’s powerful cultivation. so powerful, that you are also unable to overcome it in 1999. i hope you have sincerely overcome it at this very important juncture of Malaysia history.

    it is ok that should DAP fallout with PAS or PKR, say due to passing of unfair and biased policies that doesn’t benefit the people. we will be behind you. however, the Opposition hasn’t even started ruling and there are already some issues regarding MBs etc. that’s dissapointing.

    if PAS can come up with something beneficial to the people, support them! i will give you thumbs up and vote for you. i don’t care what party you are from, as long as you can bring good to the people, i will support you.

    right now, the most important thing is for the 3 parties to sit down and come up with an alternative to NEP. it is pointless to say to scrap NEP if there is no alternative, so please show us something concrete as soon as possible. if not, you will end up with even more CONVINCING protest from UMNO.

    i am predicting that this will be a baptism in fire for the Opposition states. if you can come up with a strong and effective administration, not only you will win the Federal government, but you will also reverse the tide of the Singapore magnet effect to the brain drain.

    my best wishes for you.

  118. #118 by gotcha1965 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:47 pm

    Most media continuously wrote or said “DAP – a chinese-based party”. Please tell us is this statement true?

    If this is not true, can some legal action be taken against those media concern for distorting facts, i.e demand apology, retract and correct such statement, get court order issued to those media not to repeat such or similar nature statements, etc.

    It always disgust me when I read this type of statement especially when the news content concern another race. It is as though the chinese are pitting against the malays/indians/lain-lain or vice versa, which is absolutely false.

    DAP needs to correct the perception it is Chinese, which is false. It is without doubt a multi-race party for all Malaysians.

    Recruitment drive.. spread the word, we need more Malaysians of other etnic group to join up under DAP to fight for our rights. And yes, Malaysians’ rights.

    Together as a unit we will achieve a Malaysia for Malaysians.

  119. #119 by leeann on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:47 pm

    Dress code ? For me, tat is no big deal.
    And I am a fashionable girl.
    Tudong, Kabaya, Songkok are all part of the fashion now,
    Wat is dress code comparing to massive corruptions by BN, it is nothing.
    Honestly, has anyone read a Quran before???? I did. I am Chinese.
    Buy one, and start reading, only RM15. It may enlighten u, I think it is time to understand more of Islam for all of us.
    We would not blame LKS for a PAS MB, we are not some immature kids tat blame everything on our leaders like in some countries.

  120. #120 by tswern on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:49 pm

    NST & The STAR are tools of UMNO. That paper, IMHO is excellent for wrapping nasi lemak.


    You have 18 DAP, 7 PKR reps in the state assembly to counter 6 PAS reps (inclusive 1 MB) with regards to the Islamic.

    I don’t think 6 people (less than 2/3) can change the state constitution. Besides, they would definately incur the wrath of the majority of Perakians that oppose that ideology.

  121. #121 by pwcheng on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:49 pm

    The perception of an unholy relationship of DAP with PAS is historic and I think the mindset of most Chinese has changed. To most Chinese UMNO is a very much bigger devil than PAS. The latter is only having aspirations on Islamnisation but the former is no better on their agenda for Islamnisation, but worse of all are their racist policies and corruption to the heels and plundering the country without any mercy.
    If by any chance PAS can make this an Islamic country, why are we worried to see most of the UMNOputras walking without hands.

  122. #122 by donng55 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:53 pm

    Dear YB

    Being a Chinese guy from the old school I don’t fancy wearing my politics on my sleeve so please allow me to keep this short.

    Now that we have responded to BA’s call and put many of you where you are now, I ask just one thing in return — THAT you treat all people equally and respectfully irrespective of their race and religion (the biggest sin of our nation), failing which I swear on my father’s grave I will sell my house and my car to bring down DAP, and by extension BA.

    God Bless and Godspeed . . .

  123. #123 by BoycottLocalPapers on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:55 pm

    Dear Uncle Lim,

    Could you advise your boys not to behave in such a way that DAP members could be perceived as racist by the Malays? For example, it is reported by Raja Petra at his website that Teng Chang Khim refused to wear songkok when meeting the Sultan of Selangor and held a demonstration. What is this man? There is nothing wrong with wearing songkok. You guys have won Selangor & Perak!!! Why do you guys want to offend the Sultans of Selangor & Perak?

    Please be careful next time. Don’t be afraid of what MCA and Gerakan might say. Just do the right thing.

    For Perak MB, I am happy with his credentials. As far as I know, he is not from Al Azhar University.

    I am against certain Sharia laws that Pas is trying to implement but I am not against Muslims. As long as he can be fair to all regardless of race and religion, I will have no problem. I am too sick and tired of UMNO leaders that I am no longer afraid of having a PAS member as a leader. UMNO leaders could not guarantee us that they will not snatch away our dead bodies or destroy our temples or churches.

    Try to co-operate with PAS on universal principles i.e. do to others what you want others to do to you. This is something that UMNO leaders could not do. That is why I am willing to give PAS leaders a chance. If not, then this country is really hopeless for non-Muslims.

  124. #124 by lohsh on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:55 pm

    To Lee Wang Yen

    Being voted in as a governing party is a blessing for DAP as it is now empowered to effect change.

    Unless DAP elects to remain as an opposition party, with which it has been very comfortable so far, otherwise it will ironically turn out to be a fatal misfortune if it fails to effect change for the better.

    Can DAP pull out from the coalition now? Certainly not.

    Does DAP has an alternative? No.

    DAP will have to use its political power, will and wisdom to bring about change: change for the better in all aspects.

    Can DAP blame anybody if fails in the Coalitions? No.

    If it fails, it will suffer a worse fate than MCA,MIC and Gerakan.

    Accepting the winning on 8/3 appears to be easy. Making the winning a real success is the crucial issue. Holding on steadfastly to the opposition mindset will definitely turn the victory into a fatal misfortune.

    DAP has no alternative but to face the challenges ahead. Prove to the people that it can perform what the predecessors fail to do, with the mandate given. The mandate includes working with PKR and PAS, even if it has no intention of partnering with PAS before 8/3.

  125. #125 by devilmaster on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:57 pm

    i am so glad to hear PKR is against the NEP in the latest statement. Guan Eng, you will have the full backing to scrap the NEP from UMNO. Penang will be th initial place to start at.


  126. #126 by tswern on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:59 pm

    NST, the Star?

    EXCELLENT papers………………………………… to bungkus NASI LEMAK!

    Uncle Kit,

    You have my full support.

  127. #127 by Better Future on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 10:59 pm

    Although I am still having doubt to PAS but I think all Perakian should give them a chance. I heard from my Chinese Fren who Kampung is from Kelantan, Pas is not bad at all fairer to all then so can BN(UMNO). LKT, I understand your stand but please give them a chance don’t give chance to UMNO people to break this chance that I do believe now that the next Election we had a big chance to topple the BN to make Malaysia a better place. Everyone out there don’t believe in newspaper too much. I had been reading The Star my for almost 15 years but had stop buying the newspaper now because I only can believe the sport session and world news all others is bullshit. GO ON Barisan Rakyat. Finally why can’t DAP/PKR/PAS rep lodge a police report too seem like the EVIL UMNO trying to incite racial tension.

  128. #128 by devilmaster on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:00 pm

    We cannot force Teng Chang Khim to do what he does not like. Pls respect the universal basic human rights.

  129. #129 by gummibear on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:03 pm

    Sdr LKS,
    While I am a chinese (but not from Penang), I would like to state that I totally agree with musyu99. The oposition are fighting for a mutiracial Malaysia (very much unlike BN), therefore if we dont learn to respect each other and learn to accept each other then Malaysia is no more.

  130. #130 by twistedmind on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:04 pm

    Time for a change – YOU SAID it.

    To DAP and LKS – Enough, Enough, Enough of race base politics. Let us be one – MALAYSIAN! Time to change your preconceived ideas.

    To the voters – we have to live it – CHANGE. Give PAS a chance, let them prove to us, that they too are moderate and fair Malaysians.

    To PAS who has been selected to run the state, the Sultan has entrusted you in his wisdom, time for you to CHANGE. Show others, that we can all live in harmony.

    You better believe, if any one of you don’t deliver, in 5 years time, you will be given a royal kick out of office. That you can hold us to.

    Time to get back to business and move ahead. We have a LOT of catching up to do!

  131. #131 by catharsis on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:05 pm






  132. #132 by P.O.T.S on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:05 pm

    Cooperating with PAS in the new state governments merely means the DAP will need to do more groundwork by explaining to the voters that having a PAS MB is not eternal damnation.

    Just as DAP has been framed of being Chinese chauvinist, PAS has been wrongfully accused of being the Talibans of Malaysia.

    People will be more receptive to DAP’s working with PAS if the DAP spends more time with the people rather than within itself boycotting this and that.

    The election campaign is anything but over.

    Don’t rest on your laurels.


  133. #133 by kerishamuddinitis on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:08 pm


    And the video showed a child handing the baton of our future to LKS. The symbolism of this single act was so much more powerful than the entire collection of BN’s multiple TV ads, newpaper ads spanning historical and recent past successes and services as well as their team line-up, and all the other mega mediums used.

    JUST CHANGE IT! Is this for real or is this the brainchild of some clever communications strategist in the DAP, and is not worth the paper it is written on?

    If ‘IT’ meant the ruling power, then BN has lost 2/3 and 5 states have fallen. I suppose, then, changing ‘IT’ has been achieved. Is that all there is to ‘IT’? If it meant ‘mindset,’ then maybe, LKS, you are right! Yeah, DAP and its supporters have to CHANGE your mindset. But are you ready? Ready to work with PAS as equal partner in the BR coalition even as you have already embraced a close working relationship with PKR?

    DAP has broad-based support from Chinese, Indians and Malays as well. But can DAP show that there’s a way to work with PAS that serves the interests of the RAKYAT regardless of race or religion.

    What is the ‘baton’ that the child in your video passed to you, LKS? Just ‘future’? Or, hope for a Malaysian Malaysia where all races live in true peace and harmony, where the leaders work together to make this possible, where the people are guided by their leaders to learn how to accept one another?

    JUST CHANGE IT! It starts with you, LKS.

  134. #134 by Joshua Tan Kok Hauw on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:11 pm

    YB Lim, I am totally supportive of the DAP-PKR-PAS coalition state government of Selangor and Perak.

    I hope all the ‘rakyat’ of Malaysia, especially, Chinese shouldn’t just look at the dark side of PAS, instead we should look at the bright side of PAS, like its incorruptibility, fairness in managing a government.

    Furthermore, DAP can make the PAS more moderate by supervising it in the coalition government. The most important reason is that the BN being denied to rule the state and Malaysia(in the next general election). To me, BN is more horrible , detestable and unscrupulous.

  135. #135 by wkhuan on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:13 pm

    Dearest Uncle Lim,

    I am a staunch DAP supporter, but I am an ordinary Malaysian as well. This is my 1st message in your blog, I sincerely hope that you are able to read and digest my views.

    As an ordinary Malaysian, I am astonished there are fresh news that Teng Chang Khim (from Merdekareview: http://www2.merdekareview.com/news.php?n=6262) is not even in DAP Selangor Exco list. Frankly speaking, I am not bothered on what has happened politically in the party; I view Teng as a brave, capable and experienced state assemblyman in DAP Selangor; and I believe that he has won the hearts of all ppl (regardless of races) on what he has done as state assemblyman, term 2004-2008.

    Some people could have suspected that he has “actively campaigned by the backdoor by demonstrations and postings in various blogs; backstabbing someone” etc etc; but the most most most most most important thing is, he has performed, when he need to perform, on the unbalanced platform (where we have 2 members in Selangor assemblyhouse only last term).

    We will not be convinced, if the other inexperienced (till now, people will still view Teng as the suitable person, we would not know if other candidates are better than him) guys are selected. We really have high hope on DAP and BA, we dream that they are different from the dirty, corrupted and evil BN, and for the bare minimum, only capable and experienced personnel are selected, when we have the chance to govern.

    He does not know me at all, and I have not met him personally at all; we are not like MCA or Gerakan, where people in the same party are paid to demolish and spread rumours to destroy the enemy; So please, reconsider (alongside with other big shots in DAP), on the decision not to include Teng in the ‘list’.

  136. #136 by lkt-56 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:15 pm

    My friends please move on and stop being like a “broken record” as someone said. You have rejected BN and now you have to tell the new coalition government your wish lists.

    Tell us how you want us to serve you… :)

  137. #137 by alberttye on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:15 pm

    Some people think it is no big deal wearing a songkok whether voluntarily or forced to !
    What about wearing a sarong and baju Melayu ?
    What about changing your name ?
    What about changing your religion ?
    Think about it, boy !
    We are struggling for freedom and equality

  138. #138 by StevePCH on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:19 pm

    Dear YB,

    I really think there are still a lot that Dr. Koh can contribute in Penang. His experience is vast. It’s just the sentiment that brought him down.

    Anyway that he can do to strengthen the Penang govt ? just wondering ….

  139. #139 by ThePole2 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:20 pm

    i think we should look even further than the BN-Opposition divide. A state government is not a ruling party maketh. if say the Opposition in the 5 states (now BN) can come up with good policies that benefits the people, adopt the policy! even their critism may be useful. we have enough of BN saying that the Opposition is ‘opposing for the purpose of opposing’. show BN that you are not. As the Chinese saying go, to become great is because you can aggregate (????). Another lesson to learn from BN falls.

    the taiwan blue-green divide is another thing that i don’t want to see Malaysia falling into.

  140. #140 by devilonpois on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:22 pm

    Good reading….


    Lakonan pemimpin Umno Pulau Pinang mahu tunjuk lagak hero Melayu
    Mohd Sabri Said
    Sat | Mar 15, 08 | 9:07:36 pm MYT
    Alhamdulillah, akhirnya dapat juga saya menulis semula selepas pengumuman kemenangan calon Barisan Alternatif (BA) Permatang Pauh di Dewan Tungku Bainun, Bukit Mertajam pada 9 Mac lalu ekoran dijangkiti ‘demam campak’. Banyak peristiwa terpaksa dilupakan begitu sahaja termasuk majlis angkat sumpah Ketua Menteri baru, Lim Guan Eng.

    Walaupun terpaksa terperap di rumah, dengan risikan rakan taulan akhirnya dapat juga saya mendedahkan usaha Umno untuk mengadakan demonstrasi jalanan atas nama mempertahankan Dasar Ekonomi Baru (DEB).

    Ketua Pengarang, Ahmad Lutfi Othman beberapa kali bertanya khabar mahu perkembangan panas di Pulau Pinang sentiasa dikemaskinikan kerana selepas pilihan raya, katanya, lebih ramai pembaca mengunjungi Harakahdaily bagi mendapatkan berita terkini, terutama untuk menangkis laporan media pemerintah.

    Tambah Lutfi, banyak berita mengelirukan tersebar dan beliau mahu Harakahdaily segera menjelaskannya. Malang sekali, ketika itu keuzuran saya agak menghalang.

    Isu di Pulau Pinang tiba-tiba menjadi bualan hangat macam ‘bertih goreng’ di kalangan pemberita kedai kopi di sudut-sudut pekan kecil atau di warung hujung kampung. Macam-macam nada kedengaran. Ada yang pedas geram kerana bekerja siang malam untuk memenangkan Barisan Nasional (BN) tetapi akhirnya yang betul-betul menang bukan BN tapi Parti Tindakan Demokratik (DAP).

    Sekarang ini, kononnya dihebohkan bahawa bangsa Melayu Pulau Pinang sudah hilang tiang seri tempat bersandar. Ada juga menganggap bahawa orang Melayu bakal menerima tekanan lebih teruk daripada zaman BN. Malah ada ungkapan yang “lebih ganas dan berbau sentimen yang merbahaya”, umpama “Melayu Pulau Pinang sudah ditawan parti komunis”.

    Cakap-cakap yang sarat dengan nada perkauman itu lebih ketara di kawasan desa atau di sekitar pekan yang ramai orang Melayu, khasnya di kerusi Dewan Undangan Negeri (Dun) yang masih ditawan BN. Contohnya di sekitar Balik Pulau, Nibung Tebal dan paling ketara di Parlimen Tasek Gelugor dan Kepala Batas.

    Perasaan marahkan DAP begitu membuak-buak di kawasan berkenaan sehingga terdapat surat berupa hasutan tersebar luas khususnya di Dun Penaga yang mengambarkan keganasan pasti terjadi di bawah “penguasaan parti komunis”.

    Tetapi mujurlah PAS dan Parti Keadilan Rakyat mempunyai ahli yang terlatih untuk cepat menangkis tomahan yang sengaja diatur oleh Umno bagi memporak-perandakan angin perubahan yang melanda negara dengan segera membuat laporan polis.

    Umno terus memainkan isu yang membabitkan sentimen orang Melayu kerana masih terasa menjadi tulang belakang bangsa tanpa menyedari bahawa mereka kini sudah ditolak majoriti rakyat dan kalaupun “hendak bernyawa terpaksa memakai alat bantuan pernafasan”.

    Bagi menunjukkan kononnya betapa mereka sayangkan kepada bangsa, negara dan agama maka pada Jumaat 14 Mac lalu bertempat di hadapan Kompleks Tun Abdul Razak (Komtar) Umno menganjutkan perhimpunan haram bertujuan menghimpunkan orang Melayu bagi membantah kenyataan Ketua Menteri yang dikatakan mahu DEB dihapuskan.

    Risalah bertajuk “PAS Tertipu, PKR Mungkir, Umno disingkir: Melayu Tersungkur” diedarkan kepada orang ramai di Masjid Terapung, Tanjung Bungah juga pada hari Jumaat lalu. Timbalan Imam turut mengumumkan satu perhimpunan akan diadakan di hadapan Komtar jam tiga petang.

    Kenapa hal-hal itu hanya timbul hari ini setelah mereka bergelar pembangkang orang seperti Adun Penaga, Dato’ Azhar Ibrahim yang pernah menjadi Exco Kerajaan Negeri, Adun Pinang Tunggal, Dato’ Roslan Saidin, Dato’ Rashid yang pernah menjadi Timbalan Ketua Menteri dan lapan Adun lagi.

    Apakah mereka baru sedar dari dunia khayalan kenyataan dilihat ‘cengei’ (garang), bukan macam dulu asyik bermain kata-kata manis seolah-olah takut pada bayang-bayang sendiri, maklumlah 27 lagi dikelilingi Adun Gerakan, MCA dan dua MIC.

    Garang sekarang tiada gunanya kerana segarang-garang Umno kini bagaikan ‘Harimau kehilangan gigi’. Yang tinggal hanyalah kuku tumpul, telingga yang agak pekak, mata kabur, badan lemah dan paling memalukan tiada ekor kerana mungkin dibaham oleh spesisnya yang terdahulu.

    Lihatlah kenyataan Setiausaha Perhubungan Umno Pulau Pinang, Dato’ Azhar Ibrahim semasa sidang media pertama setelah menjadi pembangkang. Beliau mendesak Kerajaan Pusat menarik balik semua projek mega yang bakal dan telah dilaksanakan di negeri ini.

    Inikah dia seorang pemimpin kerana ‘marahkan nyamuk kelambu hendak dibakar’. Beliau menyuruh kerajaan negeri mencari sendiri dana dan projek sebagai deraan atau hukuman kepada rakyat yang memilih DAP sebagai kerajaan.

    Sewajarnya sebagai seorang pemimpin yang berkalibar beliau seharusnya jangan bertindak ‘bebal’ walaupun ternyata rakyat sudah menolak BN. Sebaliknya berfikir secara tenang dan sedia hadapi kerajaan baru dengan hati terbuka.

    Macam PAS di Terengganu, walau kalah di tangan Dato’ Idris Jusuh pada pilihan raya 2004, tidak pun terpancul keluar perkataan kurang menyenangkan dari mulut bekas Menteri Besarnya, Dato’ Seri tuan Guru Abdul Hadi Awang. Malah kepimpinan PAS negeri itu tenang menghadapinya walaupun masih gagal menawan hati rakyat dengan hanya mendapat 8 kerusi Dun pada 8 Mac lalu.

    Umno terpaksa melakonkan beberapa episod baru politiknya di Pulau Pinang kerana beberapa faktor. Pertama, takutkan kehilangan spesis pada masa akan datang ekoran sokongan golongan muda yang makin menurut. Kedua, ramai yang mendapat peluang bergunung kini hampir bangkrap. Apa tidaknya, ada di kalangan Adun memperkudakan kedudukanya mengaut keuntungan peribadi dan kroni.

    Pastinya, Lim Guan Eng yang terlatih dengan politik bersih tidak akan mengulangi jenayah politik BN yang terlalu kotor bahkan akan mengtadbir negeri yang terkenal dengan Mutiara Timur agar kelihatan bertenaga, aman, telus dan tentunya bersih.

  141. #141 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:22 pm

    “I think you still fear political backlash from your Chinese voters from working with PAS. Your Chinese voters are well aware that DAP has no choice under the circumstances. Please give your supporters some credit, YB Lim. They are not the mindless chauvinists that you imagined. Please get rid of your misgivings and let us all move forward to a Brave New World.”

    I think this assessment by KennyGan is fair and accurate. Old Guards within the Party must adapt to change or be replaced. The politics of today is less about either you are with us or you are against us. The zero sum politics of the past has to give way to a new kind of politics for there to be any real and lasting solutions.

  142. #142 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:23 pm

    should be “reasonable” instead of “fair”

  143. #143 by devilonpois on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:25 pm

  144. #144 by smeagroo on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:30 pm

    Uncle Kit,

    Perhaps many have misunderstood you on this including myself but you must admit that the way you handled this issue shows a certain disrespect to the HRH.

    If one is a true DAP supporter then one must be able to change with the political wave that swept passed us. If PAS supporters can show to us MSians that they are ready for a change, why cant we who boast of more exposure to the westernised world?

    Perhaps PErak will be a testing ground for the 3 parties to work together. Stay calm and discuss everything before babbling it out in the open. BN is waiting and watching and will use every opportunity to stir up issues especially on race n religion. If out from the most hostile of places BA can do wonders, then all I can say is the next GE BN will have no place to stand.

    A little bit of tactfulness in this case is a good virtue. You are no longer the opposition.

  145. #145 by chong on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:30 pm

    Ym Lim,

    Under these circumstances of Chinese concerns and Malay religion issue, you did nothing wrong lah. You are the true politician with the one-two punch to take care both feelings. You took care of Chinese because they don’t want to live in fear (at least you brought up the issue for wide discussion). You took care of Malay with later apologised to Sultan because rejecting PAS MB indirectly means rejecting Islam ideology, so your apogogies indirectly neutralized your earlier disrespect to Sultan and Islam and Malay friends (Sultan is the head of Islam lah).

    Nobody is perfect, I myself can be hypocirte sometimes not to say a successful politician like you.

    Malaysia is unique lah, someones need high politic IQ to govern these land lah. The government need to take good care the Sultan and the Rakyatlah, the government is mandated by the Rakyat first and then Sultan to govern our dairy life and our resources. Please lah, we all are Malaysian, the resources fruits should be share by all rakayatlah regardless of race and belief. Same also the policies must be fair to all Malaysian regardless of age, sex, race and belief. The government please take care also about our security issuelah, tankap orang jahat and protect orang baiklah. The justise must be restorelah.

    Perminpin come and go lah, please take care our nation wisely. The rakyat is the master nowadays. Please the government do it for the rakyat and the Sultan, don’t do it for yourselves. BN is not good example to learn.

    Not red eyes but I always think that BN makan banyak-banyak sambil Kenyang and baru gives the leftover to Sultan and Rakyat, truely I tell you, siapa boleh tahan ?! NEP biggest fruits (like project besar, company shares) for Umno Perminpin-perminpin and friends only. Yes lah, the leftover for lebih banyak peluang perkerjaan and more university enroll seats for our Malay friends. Truely speaking, if these leftovers can help our Malay friends to grow, I don’t mind but personaly I think that the money and resources of the NEP should be used to help our Malay friends to be more competitive, but not to spoil them lah. I rather teach give how to fish than merely give them fishes.

    May the power fall on the hands of the wisdoms.

  146. #146 by apaisaloi on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:31 pm

    i think DAP should be carefull to make any statement or anything that may cause controversy. i.m a malay sarawakian.. i always support Barisan Alternatif, but sadly our sarawak land is still under the White Rajah.. (taib) so i hope.. Uncle Lim.. please please stay away from making any mistake .. that can cause .. BN (umno) (mca) (mic) and other BN component blame u.. for the thing that so simple.. such as .. DAP statement that boikot the ceremony.. :-) i hope .. DAP or PKR can take over sarawak.. in next state election.. :-) from sarawak with Hope!

  147. #147 by devilonpois on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:35 pm

    Should I say like this…..for PKR/DAP/PAS….

    for any party there will be pros and cons of their party ideologies, principles, values, etc…

    1. Let’s acknolwedge or even adopt/learn/modify any pros from each party,
    2. Let’s provide constructive feedbacks/comments (but not criticize / condemn fully and blindly) to those cons so that every party can move forward…….
    3. Let’s leverage the strenght of each party to build a Barisan Rakyat for the good of a new Era…..

    As mentioned …. Reform is not Revolution


  148. #148 by stnaaron on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:36 pm

    HI! LKS and son

    when BR daily newspaper will start to publish …when? when?…..
    i belief all the nation deserved the truth about malaysian political scenario and agenda.

    I doesn’t want to be media governed cloning nation published

    Tired of reading those shit…. everyday ….

  149. #149 by malaysiaalwaysboleh on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:37 pm

    I personally think DAP is making the right move by abolishing the NEP.

    I have a full article on the reasons why the NEP stinks.
    It’s here at http://myoe.wordpress.com/2008/03/14/nep-its-time-to-stop-being-racist/

    You can also read my take on oil here:

  150. #150 by lina on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:41 pm

    just been reading whats been posted here and on various other blogs. WHile I agree its good to get things out in the open and view our sentiments and unhappiness, we should also tread very carefully. A lot is being said in these blogs, the papers and in the web that could cause a lot of racial tensions and disagreements. These comments when enacted in life outside the web can be quite dangerous. We are already having demos in penang, sms’s are going out to have one in Perak.
    We are all in this together, good or bad. If nobody works together may it be the BN or BR. We might just wake up one morning to another May 13.
    BR take a time out, cool your heels. You have just become the government in a few states. IT IS A lot different than being the opposition. Stop jumping head on into hasty decisions. Take time to think things and decisions thru. Just because you opposed something the former government did, does not mean that ‘something doesn’t have something good in for the Rakyat. Maybe you should consider improvising rather than out right rejection.

    Come on Guys you have 5 years to prove yourselves. Take your time and get it right. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Look how long it has lasted.

    Any mistake you make in this crucial first year will automatically reflect on the next four and in the mext GE. All eyes are on you so go slow, For God and our Sakes PLUZ work together and think things thru well. Making hasty decisions have a BIG Impact. BR, you promised a government for Bangsa Malaysia. Prove it.

    NEP is a sore issuse and it is also a festering wound. The NEP issue touches on racial sensitivities. Be Careful with it, study ways to enhance it for the betterment of all rakyat. It might not be that bad after all, but even if it is , the least you can do it sit down and be objective about it.

    Look I am a muslim who is not a malay. It is people like me who tend to loose out big in all this. We cant be a part of any race. All the forms I fill out my race is always OTHERS. So where do people like me stand. We have no identity but at least we know we are malaysian. All this bickering is taking even that away from us.

    So guys drop the malay, chinese or Indian rights thingy. Lets just go for Malaysian Rights. Where all are equal.

  151. #151 by stjames on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:47 pm

    Since Malaysia is in a political transition, here is A QUESTION TO ALL BARISAN RAKYAT SUPPORTERS:

    1) Do you trust DSeri Anwar Ibrahim to lead a proggressive and moderate opposition/government?
    2) What actions or words of his has convinced you that his current stance is genuine given allegations of his fundamentalist past?

    Pls do not misunderstand, there is no intention to create a split in the opposition, I am simply trying to get some clarity on this matter.

  152. #152 by MWong on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:50 pm

    Heya Uncle Lim,

    Just a small hiccup, u guys ve long way to go! As we all know, the MSM are all ridiculously biased, opposition parties will only capture their negative coverage, whatever LKY said won’t bother us much.

    Btw, as a silver surfer( Uncle Lim wont mind =P), i thk Uncle Lim is advanced enough to make use of the internet to reach the masses by bloggin’ and havin’ a facebook account. This is the quickest way to reach the rakyat esp. young voters..(im in my mid 20’s)Im sure you really heard us by readin’ the feedbacks as you’ve reacted timely on the Perak MB issue. Today’s blog, u even segregated the comments we’ve left into 3 categories, which gave us an idea about what’s the general views and opinions of the people. As we always said, is the view of the rakyats that matters.

    Can I suggest Uncle Lim to install a “QUICK POLL” on this blog? In time when you need some feedbacks on a critical issue, you may get quick responses from us. This might not be 100% accurate but is a good means to test the water, (or just a guidance & reference) at least quicker than goin’ through whoppin’ 1600++ comments.

  153. #153 by toyolbuster on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:52 pm

    It is hard to imagine how DAP could have avoided multi-cornered fights in most of the constituencies, if there wasn’t any relationship or understanding with PAS. BN have successfully painted a racist portrait on DAP and it is quite impossible to shake off this perception from the malay eyes. Being perceived as a ultra-chinese party, DAP has been having an impossible task recruiting malay members, just like chinese kopitiam having difficulty to attract malay customers. We know that DAP is for all races, but BN had skillfully crafted a convincing racist image on DAP as part of their divide-and-rule strategy.

    Since we can’t change the malays’ perception of DAP, it would be wise for DAP to neutralise such perception by agreeing to work with PAS, a strategic alliance that could convince the Malays more than it would scare them off. Anwar have successfully convinced PAS to accept DAP, but DAP must reciprocate. After all, 4 years is a very short time. We, the rakyat shall decide accordingly.

  154. #154 by Lee Wang Yen on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:53 pm
    Critical CommentsBy Dr. Ng Kam Weng

    Birds in a bird park, we may blithely assume, would be happier in than their feathered brothers shut up in small cages in a home somewhere. After all, birds in a park can take longer flights and enjoy a measure of freedom and security, albeit within the netting. But birds know better. Give them half a chance and they will fly off to real freedom that lies beyond the netting.Some of the questions posed in the recent PAS launching of their Islamic State Document raised the ridiculous suggestion that birds should accept life within confinement just because the park keeper is able to give them tastier seeds and larger nettings. Surely, these questioners have missed out on the more fundamental issues of freedom and equality in limiting the discussion to issues like granting permission to non-Muslims to drink and gamble, and seeking less severe punishment for adultery.To be sure, the glib answers from PAS officials may persuade some to accept the Islamic state. At least, PAS has now laid its cards on the table with its manifesto that is sprinkled with the language of piety. The manifesto even affirms fundamental liberties.But the people need to be wary—what the bold print giveth, the fine print taketh away. On the one hand, the PAS document accepts the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. On the other hand, it specifies that the rights must not contravene the provisions of the Syariah. What can this mean? Non-Muslims are at liberty to practice their cultural expression, presumably “within the ambit of the Syariah.” PAS offers such concessions precisely because it is replacing the Federal Constitution with its version of the Syariah as the supreme law of the land.The PAS proposal strikes at the foundation of our whole legal system. Hence, we must reject it. To borrow a phrase from PAS officials, we must defend our fundamental liberties and rights to equal citizenship enshrined in the current Federal Constitution because they are “immovables”.The Constitution formulated in 1957 and 1963 was arrived at through the tradition ofmusyawarah-muafakat ( consultation and consensus) of the nation’s Founding Fathers to reach a consensus. It epitomizes a social contract among equal partners that promises equality of all citizens—regardless of race and religion—in a pluralist democracy.In contrast, PAS insists on the Ulama (from which non-Muslims are obviously excluded) as the final interpreter of the laws of the land. In other words, non-Muslims are relegated to a subservient position.PAS assures us that their rule will include consultation (Shura) within Parliament. Butunfortunately, without the premise of equal citizenship, and with PAS reserving the right to make the final decision, such consultation will only be tokenism that provides a veneer of legitimacy for PAS’ undemocratic rule.What will happen when PAS replaces the current politics of democratic consensus? Politics of mutual recognition will then be replaced with a politics of hegemony where all Muslim citizens are ‘more equal’ than others.
    Page 2
    2The PAS document lists out various freedoms that include the right of mother-tongue and cultural expression. But political scientists and historians often warn us that paper guarantees are insufficient to protect democratic rights. For example, the 1936 Soviet Constitution (Article 125) guaranteed by law freedom of speech, the press, assembly and even street demonstrations. It added that “these rights of citizens are ensured by placing them at the disposal of the working people and their organizations of printing shops, supplies of paper, public buildings, the streets, means of communication, and other material requisites for the exercise of these rights.” These promises did not prevent the rise of tyranny.Rhetoric must be fleshed out in concrete institutions to be credible. In this regard PAS’document fails to demonstrate how the party will move from pious principles to concrete policies in the context of establishing just institutions that will preserve the checks and balances of political power.PAS appears reluctant to spell out concrete details. Regardless of whatever concessions it makes, PAS reserves the prerogative to define the limits of the rights of its non-Muslim subjects. To be sure, the document emphasizes that “the citizens possess all rights to demand transparency at all levels of leadership.” But sadly, such transparency was not evident when PAS was thrown the question on kharaj. PAS gave a misleading answer by suggesting that it was merely taxation.Kharaj may be deemed as merely taxation if it is equally required of all citizens but if it is imposed on non-Muslims then it can only be a continuation of the historical policy of relegating non-Muslims to the inferior status of the dhimmi since historically kharaj was considered as jizyah (protection tax) on their conquered land. PAS evocation and evasion contradicts the document’s assurance of transparency.The practice of telling half-truths emphasizes the fragility of political language that is open to distortion and misinformation. Barisan National politicians who look forward to a field day attacking PAS and its manifesto ought to take note that their criticisms will have credibility only if they are not seen as political opportunists, but they are genuinely defending the sanctity of the Constitution and strengthening our democratic institutions.I sympathize with my Muslim fellow-citizens when PAS seeks to impale them with a dichotomy between loyalty to the Constitution and loyalty to God. But surely, the choice between serving God and our fellow-men is both false and unnecessary.Indeed, we may argue that religion plays a vital role in promoting a pluralist democracy when its believers move beyond self-interests to promote the common good and foster social relations of mutual respect in the context of just institutions.The real choice for all of us is clear. We must choose either the present Constitution that preserves justice and equality for all citizens and affirms the importance of religion, or PAS’ document that evidently undermines democratic justice and equality and renders religionvulnerable to political exploitation.November 2003

  155. #155 by ThePole2 on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:54 pm

    To stjames:

    At least 1 point he has convinced me: he formed PKR NOT BASED ON RACE. he could have formed something ala Semangat 46, but he did not. Now, the rest of the proof is in the pudding.

  156. #156 by middlepath on Saturday, 15 March 2008 - 11:56 pm

    I do understand the reason for the objection too. Afterall, DAP and PKR won the majority seats and it is only logical that the MB position should go to someone from these two parties. So it does come as a surprise that the position goes to PAS, who has the lowest seat. It does seemed unfair as well. I would say that LKS concern is valid – let us just pray that everything will be fine and that the 3 parties can work together to a better Malaysia!

  157. #157 by Richard Teo on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:02 am

    You are a poor judge of character if you say that Chandra is a person of impeccable character.I tend to agree with Wee Choo keong that this man is an intellectual fraud and an opportunist.If he had been honest about Annuar then why is he silent on all the Barisan leaders who are corrupt and racists?Is he implying that all the B.N people are people of integrity and honest?And if he had known about Annuar’s character earlier why then did he join PKR?To know the character of Chandra you just have to read his intellectual dishonesty in portraying everything bad about America and Israel and glorifying the Palestine without giving an impartial view of the Israel-Palestine conflict.His timing in critisizing Annuar to cause maximum damage to his political career reveals his personal ambition of ampuying P.M who reinstated his lecturer position in the university.This man is a first degree fraud.

  158. #158 by scorpian6666 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:02 am

    Why dont we see this way … Pas willing to lead Perak this way seem like a willingness to integrate.
    Watch Malay, Indian and Chinese school boys playing football. This is an opportunity for us to heal not break. We could be the best in Asia..Really

  159. #159 by ThePole2 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:02 am

    To LWY

    Dear Mr Lee

    May I find out how between immediate Islamization under PAS, Islamization 50 years later under BN and a Modern, integrated, progressive Malaysia, which one will you choose?

    i know which one i want. i know it is not easy. No one says it is easy. But, are YOU willing to take the first step?

  160. #160 by mw88 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:04 am

    If we take away party labels and look at the CV of the candidates, probably most will agree the Sultan made the right choice in choosing the most qualified candidate for the job, after all, as numerous others have posted, if you leave it in the hands of the Sultan, then you have made the choice to trust in his wisdom…

    So, let’s all move on into uncharted teritory… together… and create a bigger wave in GE13…

    After all, biased as the mainstream media is, anyone with half a brain can see ‘sour grapes’, ‘self-serving’, ‘since you didn’t vote me I take things away from you’ even with the most positive spin… come next election, PROVIDED that BR really perform as promised, the next govt will not be BN.

    However, the keyword is PROVIDED… so time to get to work making this country a better place for all!

  161. #161 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:07 am

    An excerpt from
    Dr. Ng Kam Weng


    PAS’s attitude towards non-Muslims can be described as condescending. Non-Muslims clearly understand that PAS’s Islamic state will impose Islamic law on all citizens in a such way that their religious freedom will be violated. Indeed, PAS’s politicians are being disingenuous in suggesting that non-Muslims are against the Islamic state just because they want freedom to eat pork, operate casinos or dress indecently in public. The fact is non-Muslims are more concerned about the fundamental issue of citizenship rights.

    I recall a forum where YB Nik Aziz was asked whether non-Muslims could play a meaningful role in the legal system of the Islamic state PAS has in mind. Would they have a genuine say in the formulation of laws and public policy? Would non-Muslim lawyers be allowed to represent their clients as advocates in courts? Would non-Muslim judges be allowed to make judgments in the Shariah courts? YB Nik Aziz’s response was very revealing – he did not give an affirmative answer to any of these questions. Instead he gave a roundabout answer which suggested that non-Muslims would accept Islamic law when they properly understood it. In effect, he evaded the issue that most troubles non-Muslims, that is, whether PAS’s Islamic state effectively disenfranchises non-Muslims from the legal system.

    Worries about legal disenfranchisements are inevitable if PAS’s Islamic state maintains a distinction between Muslim citizens and non-Muslim subjects by categorizing the latter as dhimmis. Muslims may enjoy the full legal status under the Shariah law while dhimmis are assigned a subordinate role. This subordinate role is epitomized by payment of the poll tax, the jizyah and kharaj. Indeed, in 1999, an attempt to impose the Kharaj on non Muslims was put off only after a public outcry against it. Dhimmis cannot assume authoritative positions in PAS’s legal system precisely because unbelievers cannot understand the Shariah law. Dhimmis are also excluded from holding senior positions in government. Maududi, an influential jurist from Pakistan explained that the Islamic state is an ideologcal state and as such non-believers who do not share its ideology cannot share political power. But does not such exclusion amount to legal apartheid? It would be easy for PAS to allay the anxieties of non-Muslim by declaring decisively that it will not implement the dhimmi system and that all citizens will be accorded equal rights and legal status. PAS appears reluctant or unwilling to do so. As long as PAS fails to undertake this pledge, we can only regard its assurances about tolerance and justice as inconsequential concessions and empty rhetoric.

  162. #162 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:15 am

    Part 2
    An excerpt from
    Dr. Ng Kam Weng


    Let it be stressed that the anxieties of non-Muslims are not abstract fears. Indeed, they have for some years experienced painful restrictions on their own religious rights even under an UMNO led government. For example, some government officials – acting from a narrow interpretation of Islam – make it difficult for non-Muslims to gain approval to build places of worship. Some state governments even prohibit non-Muslims from using some crucial technical terms like Allah, Iman, Wahyu, Injil, Kitab,Nabi etc. In effect, non-Muslims are denied the right to talk about the central tenets of their own religion. Non-Muslim religious literature have been confiscated on grounds that they contain such words. Is it any surprise that non-Muslims fearfully anticipate that PAS – with an even more narrow interpretation of Islam – can only make matters worse?

    In the light of these grave concerns, the non-Muslim’s objection to the establishment of an Islamic state should not be taken as an act of animosity towards Islam per se. It is, rather, a reaction towards a serious threat against one’s fundamental citizenship rights. Polarizing citizens into contesting groups – divided along the criterion as to whether they are for or against the Islamic state – would only cloud the real issue. As such, conflictive politics should be replaced by a positive approach concerned with defending the inalienable basic rights of all citizens as enshrined in the Constitution.

    It is therefore appropriate to clarify the relationship between religious and political institutions envisaged by the Federal Constitution. Of direct relevance is the clause which states that “Islam is the religion of the Federation, but other religions may be practiced in peace and harmony in any part of the Federation.” The additional Constitutional provisions that empower the government to render assistance to Islam, especially pertaining to education, require lawmakers to be sensitive to the concerns of Islam. But the status of Islam was clarified by our first Prime Minister when he explained that the clause referred to the ceremonial role of Islam at official functions.

    To put the matter in historical perspective, we need to recall that the original architects of the Federal Constitution assured the Sabahans and Sarawakians during negotiations for the formation of Malaysia that the clause “does not imply that Malaysia is not a secular state.” Put positively, Malaysia is therefore a secular state. By a secular state is meant a state that adopts religious neutrality in a pluralistic society. Notice that neutrality is far from hostility towards religion. Indeed, a secular state should maintain a benevolent neutrality that respects the integrity and equality of diverse religions of the nation.

    Two consequences emerge if we demarcate a clear boundary between state and religious institutions. First, the state is judged as lacking competence in matters religious. The Latin term saeculum (from which the word ‘secular’ comes) means pertaining to temporal matters. The call for a secular state is to remind state authorities in a democratic society that the electoral mandate given to them in elections only pertains to temporal matters in society. The state should respect the autonomy of religious institutions even though both institutions work together in promoting a moral society.

    The act to remove religious institutions from state sovereignty should not be seen as an act to undermine religion. On the contrary, the act alleviates the status of religion since its institutions become independent public institutions capable of censuring state authorities if it should arrogate for itself the final authority in human affairs. If anything, state authorities are morally held accountable to a higher transcendent authority.

    Second, the separation between state and religious institutions is necessary to avoid possible conflicts in the event that some politicians exploit religious sentiments and incite disgruntled citizens to resort to violence. A quick look at Nigeria and the Indian sub-continent should serve as a salutary reminder against the temptation to mix religion and politics. Maintaining the precarious harmony between the various racial communities in Malaysia is already a most difficult task for any government. Confusing the boundaries between religious and political institutions will make matters worse given the conflictive nature of politics.

  163. #163 by renaissance.MY on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:15 am

    Lee Wang Yen,
    please contribute your post at :
    1. leewangyen.blogspot.com … or
    2. leewangyen.wordpress.com

    even an old horse like LKS is adapting towards creating a Barisan Rakyat as most of us here … so stop your un-contributing postings !!!

  164. #164 by lovemsia on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:16 am

    no choice, uncle lim. the political reality in msia makes it a must for u to team up with PAS in Perak. This doesn’t constitute a pact between DAP and PAS, only as far as governing Perak state is concerned. Of course, the BN parties esp Gerakan and MCA would shoot at u for doing so but it seems that this is their biggest fear too. For if the Perak Chinese find that their lives are none the worse due to PAS then u can be assured of success in the next elections.

  165. #165 by stevchew on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:17 am

    Please checked Teng Chang Khim’s blog to hear his side of the story. I don’t believe Teng is such a person.

  166. #166 by drngsc on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:19 am

    Hi Kit,

    Please persuade saudara Teng of Selangor, NOT TO MAJOR IN MINORS. Wearing a songkok is respect for the sultan, so be it. You are a leader. Do not make a crisis out of a minor issue. We have more important things to do. OR make the painful decision of excluding him. In these challenging times, Malaysia need leaders, not politicians with their own agendas. Please DAP, Please Saudara Teng, be a leader in this hour of need, not a small minded politician with an axe to grind. There is much more difficult and challenging task ahead..

  167. #167 by digard on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:25 am

    “It is time to move on into the new uncharted Malaysian political waters.”

    True, Kit. Then, please, go ahead and do it!
    Of course it has been kind of easier being in the opposition, and opposition leader, with clear-cut front-lines.
    Sure, DAP got burnt with the ‘Islamic state’. More so was PAS, even in Kelantan. Nobody actually wants to run about without hands.

    Historically, DAP had seen a good ethnic mix of members, rather recently it shifted to an almost Chinese-only organisation. This trend needs to be reversed, if DAP wants to survive. This will put off some ‘Ketuanan Cina’ supporters, for sure. But there is no loss at seeing them departing; just as there is no loss at departing ‘Ketuanan Malay’ people elsewhere.
    Those in and outside of this blog who rather be second-class citizen, but allowed to dress qípáo when meeting the Sultan, are better off in BN anyway.

    What I could recommend to do, though, is to explain the situation to the mostly Chinese small traders, and everyone else in the community without access to a blog like this. And do it as fast as lightning. There could be a chance to form a formal alliance with PKR and PAS. There might be the urgent need to do so, in case BN disintegrates. Accept that the majority of the members of PAS feel the urge to – in principle – insist on the idea of the Islamic State. Make sure at the same time, that they confirm that the coalition is not the right instrument, and that they wait until it is their turn to have the two-third majority. Or something to that behalf. Remember TAR, who warned that the country would run out of stones if adulterers were to be stoned. And PAS would as well lose a good number of members.

    The majority of the rakyat in the peninsula has instructed their representatives to do away with BN. A small percentage of the electorate only has given out the order to institute Sharia Law. Leave it to others to explain to the die-hard fundamentalists that the time has not come (yet). Make it your task instead, to explain to the DAP-supporters what it takes to get a fair government for all Malaysians. Islam instructs fair and equal treatment of everyone, so there is nothing wrong at working together with Muslims.

  168. #168 by P.O.T.S on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:26 am

    Ipoh/Perak cannot be any worse after decades of UMNO rule.

    Nizar has my full support, unless he turns out to be like an UMNO goon as well.


  169. #169 by Malaysian.Democrat on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:40 am

    I can honestly say that by and large the PAS guys I have encountered are civil, pragmatic and willing to compromise. They are not die hard Jihadist who want to turn Malaysia into an Islamic State. Try as they might social and political realities are such they will never achieve their aim unless Malaysia becomes an economic and educational basket case.

    PAS is a political party which uses Islam to fish for votes. Despite the hell fire and brimstone rhetoric from Hadi and Tok Aziz which scares the living daylights out of people from the west coast, the reality is they know it does not go down well with the electorate. Muslims want material benefit. PAS was not able to deliver in Terengganu and hence they were routed in 2004. When they toned down their Islamic rhetoric and stopped talking about Islamic State and the imposition of Hudud, their support increased. This tells us that Malays themselves do not want an Islamic State. They want a clean , transparent government which is fair to the people. PAS appears to have responded and people have now rewarded them with votes in the election. Now are they going to squander these votes by becoming increasing ‘hardline’ from an Islamic standpoint? I very very much doubt it based on the bitter lesson of 2004. They know better now.

    Equally important is the moderating factor of the opposition coalition. They cannot just focus on the Muslim constituency because this will have an impact on the working relationship with the coalition. I believe we will increasingly see PAS being more moderate and democratic.

    The reason why PAS became ‘extreme’ was because of goading from BN. Each tried to out-Islamise each other after 1999. The moment UMNO declared Malaysia am Islamic State, it pulled the rug from under PAS’ feet. PAS had to retreat as it had lost the ‘Taliban’ tag to UMNO. UMNO then went on a rampage to show how extremely ‘Islamic’ it was by demolishing the Ayah Pin commune, the numerous Hindu temples and orang Asli Churches, condoning body snatching, together with the Revathi and Lina Joy cases which were clearly politically motivated. The aim was to establish its ‘supreme’ Islamic credentials. As a result, PAs was then able to present itself as the tolerant, human and rational face of Islam. When Abdullah the Imam of Hadhari ignored pleas to have the Mazu statue in Kudat built, PAS responded by saying they had the largest Buddha statue in Malaysia and had no problems with the statue being built. Even ABIM, Anwar Ibrahim’s earlier outfit objected to the building of the statue saying it ‘defiled’ a mosque which was some distance away. All this convinced people that a PAS state could never be worse than the Hadhari Islamic State. BN had been swallowed up by its own ‘Islamic State’ bogeyman which was not an insubstantial vote bank particularly from the non-Muslims.

    I believe with education and a growing young Muslim population which is educated and exposed through the internet to universal values, PAS will be forced to ‘disrobe its clerical garb’ and adopt a more secular approach to governance. It is only a matter of time. Remember it is people power which will change them. Just as DAP has been forced to accomodate PAS in a coalition government in Perak and Selangor.

    I am optimistic because I know the character of the Malay people. They are not Arabs and do not have the historical baggage of the Arabs. Islam in Malaysia was not spread by conversion by the sword. Is was a slow and dynamic process and has always lived peaceably amongst other races and creeds through the centuries. It is only politics by self interested groups who have tried to change the complexion of Islam to that of the Wahabi Arabs and to alienate other races and religions. Malays must be allowed to find themselves culturally and spiritually. There should be no ‘directives’ from old timers like Hadi or Tok Aziz who belong to a bygone era and who are somewhat anachronistic in a dynamic modern Malaysia.

  170. #170 by hitchhiker on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:45 am

    Perak – golden era ahead?
    Among all states under BR in Malaysia, I am paying most attention to Perak. The reason is simple: it is the only state in Malaysia that forces the three parties to work together on an almost equal footing to govern the state. The developments in this state will be closely watched as a study case by the rakyat. The rakyat will judge if the BR can work together to form the federal government in the next GE by looking at how the Perak government performs in the next few years.

    Future is colourful
    Face the reality: neither PAS nor DAP alone can win enough seats to form the federal government by themselves. The future lies in multiracial parties such as PKR. Stick to your outdated political idealogy stubbornly without caring for rakyat’s evolving sentiment is a sure way to go the way of the dinosaurs – extinction.

    Why DAP must work with PAS
    I feel that the concerns raised about PAS party idealogies are mostly valid. Precisely due to those concerns, DAP should work together with PAS. This will force PAS to learn to work together with DAP and moderate their views. DAP can also allay fears in Malays that DAP are anti-Malays/Muslims. If DAP performs well in the government under PAS MB and take care of the rakyat including the Malays, the Malays/Muslims will learn to accept and support DAP too. Don’t lose this golden chance.

    Wise Perak Sultan
    I also feel that choosing PAS MB is a very wise choice by the Perak royalty. This forces the PAS MB to learn to govern a secular state – meaning PAS has to adapt their idealogy – as most of the Exco are from DAP. This decision also gives a chance to DAP to show to the Malays/Muslims that DAP is gracious and understanding and accepts Malays/Muslims (Yes, the candidate from PKR is a Malay Muslim but can be seen as secular in opinion. The impression is that the PAS candidate is a pious person). This decision benefits PKR as well as it shows PKR can accept a more qualified candidate although that candidate comes from a party with fewer seats. This proves to Malays/Muslims that PKR can work with religious Muslims and at the same time shows to progressive Malaysians that PKR practise meritocracy.

  171. #171 by dawsheng on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:49 am

    I don’t remember songkok as part of the dress code when meeting the Sultan, even in official function only people with certain profiles will wear it. Are we having some kind of new national dress code here?

  172. #172 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:49 am

    Loh you asked in earlier thread, “Jeffrey, is your waiting for moderation that long?”

    All my postings on current debate about PAS-DAP collaboration are under moderation for more than 12 hours, so I cannot participate in the discussion as far as topic is concerned.

  173. #173 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:56 am

    According to Dr. Ng Kam Weng, ‘Dhimmis [non-Muslims] cannot assume authoritative positions in PAS’s legal system precisely because unbelievers cannot understand the Shariah law. Dhimmis are also excluded from holding senior positions in government.’

    Is such an Islamic notion of Dhimmi’s role the reason why (i.e. the rationale underlying the state’s consitution) non-Muslims cannot be Perak MB? If so how could DAP accept such an arrangement?

    As Dr. Ng says, ‘But does not such exclusion amount to legal apartheid? It would be easy for PAS to allay the anxieties of non-Muslim by declaring decisively that it will not implement the dhimmi system and that all citizens will be accorded equal rights and legal status. PAS appears reluctant or unwilling to do so. As long as PAS fails to undertake this pledge, we can only regard its assurances about tolerance and justice as inconsequential concessions and empty rhetoric.’

    (see my post above for reference)

  174. #174 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:56 am

    What kind of collaboration is that that favours only PAS?

    If PAS’s Perak MB pushes for Islamic policy for the state, the rule is, I believe, DAP representatives, even if they are majority, cannot remove or do anything to the MB because unanimity is reone restate councillors, even if majorityyou

  175. #175 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:01 am

    What kind of collaboration is that that favours only PAS?

    If PAS’s Perak MB pushes for Islamic policy for the state, the rule is, I believe, DAP representatives, even if they are majority, cannot remove or do anything to the MB because unanimity is required for that. What kind of collaboration is that if DAP has to walk out of state govt that they are voted in for when the PAS MB that does wrong need not have to walk out? Just like DAP may win the most state seats but it is PAS that won least gets the most powerful position of MB.

    Fact is infrastructure and laws favour PAS in a PAS/DAP collaboration, and PAS knows it. PAS uses this fact to strengthen its position at DAP’s expense.

  176. #176 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:10 am

    When Perak MB pushes for Islamic policy (he can do it gradually and subtly), I’m afraid DAP leaders will cite the similar considerations of ‘big picture’, ‘new scenario’, ‘uncharted waters’, ‘new era’, ‘golden opportunity’ etc to explain away their acquiescence, as shown in this MB issue. They might even suggest that it is the voters’ collective choice, which created the unexpected political tsunami on 8/3, that puts them in such a dilemma. That’s why I say this MB issue has set a dangerous precedence.

  177. #177 by dawsheng on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:11 am

    Raja Petra must learn how to get facts right
    Raja Petra made scathing remarks on me in Malaysia-Today.
    Although I am in the rush to go to Penang now, I have to respond immediately.
    Firstly, I did not organize any demonstration to pressurize the DAP into making me the Deputy Menteri Besar of Selangor. I do not know how did Raja Petra gather the information that I had done that. If he likes rumours and then to rumour, then that is what he is worth.
    There were some gatherings organized by voters and local leaders in Klang to express their views and support for me. They have their democratic right to do so but I have nothing to do with those activities.
    Of course, someone will say, “surely you must be the mastermind”. Well, can someone teach me how to prove that I have nothing to do with those activities? I really do not know how.
    Secondly, I did not boycott when HRH Sultan granted audience to the DAP respresentatives recently. I was not directed by the party to seek audience with the Sultan. How could I boycott when I was even not directed to be present?
    I was also not invited to attend the swearing in of the new Menteri Besar recently. There was nothing I could boycott when I was not even invited. Doesn’t Raja Petra know the basic palace protocol that one will not attend any function in palace if not invited.?
    Anyway, I agree, and perhaps I am the only one in the DAP who noticed that the DAP stateassemblywoman was not in compliance with the palace protocol by wearing pants in seeking audience. If she had cunsulted me beforehand, I would have had advised her accordingly.
    Thirdly, the issue of non Malays wearing songkok is a separate issue that has nothing to do in the present forming of the new government. The delay, if any, in forming the new Selangor state government has nothing to do at all with the issue of Songkok. It has been a party policy and needs to be deliberated in view of the new development. In any event, it will not be an issue that deters the swearing in of the new line-up. I will further discuss the issue when I come back from Penang on Monday. We, in the DAP, know the larger picture that emerges.
    Meanwhile, Raja Petra and the readers of Malaysia-today should also learn to be patient to find out the truth before jumping up and down on rumuors. Yes, they also have to learn before teaching others.


  178. #178 by a-malaysian on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:18 am

    A New Dawn Emerges From The Uncharted Political Waters

    Hope and Trust
    For 33 years since I am eligible to vote, I am hoping that bn will fall, but each election after each was a disappointment for me.

    My trust for DAP and our YB Kit gives me hope that one day we are going to make it.

    Finally it happen on the 9th of March 2008 but the voting pattern was totally different from previous elections. The people of all races have come together to show bn that Enough Is Enough.

    For DAP it was a great victory and the reward is the Penang Chief Minister post plus victories in Perak and Selangor as well.

    But we must be truthful that it cannot happen without the coorporation with PKR and PAS. A whole new scenerio that DAP and all parties must accept and believe in. If any party were to go it alone, it will not happen by winning this big.(excluding the malay states)

    PAS islamic state can never be realized whether they go it alone or coalition with DAP and PKR. The only way they can do it is by joining forces with umno.

    At the present situation, many non malays are no longer in fear of PAS as witness by the recent election results.

    DAP must be brave enough to venture into this Uncharted Political Waters and work closely with PAS and PKR to fulfill the wishes of the rakyat.

    We the rakyat must continue to help out, by explaining to those who are fearful of PAS islamic state and the reasons why DAP have to work together with them. In the meantime we must also ensure that umno does not regain back its strength like they have for the past fifty years. They must remain weak at all times and hopefully one day our hope is that they will disintegrate.

    For me, it is ok if DAP were to talk to PAS and work together in running the winning states.

    YB Kit do not worry of any backslash from the voters. For each voter who are against you there are 10 voters supporting you. Like all the support you have during this 12th GE we will always be supporting you in this venture into the Uncharted Political Waters.


  179. #179 by haveaview on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:19 am


    Today i heard RTM and TV3 news reports on DAP.

    I feel they are really biased,insticating and iritating. I regreted given them one vote.

    As for Dap, the modern Dap ie, people knows better than the mainstream media. BN is still sleeping..on the 40yrs old policy.

    What an old guitar.,the policy is.

    As for Perak, no worry. Being multi racial party, Dap can propose its own malay muslim assemblyman next time.

  180. #180 by Old Geezer on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:20 am

    I keep hearing this argument about PAS having the smallest number of seats, so therefore should not have the MB post.
    Many just simply cannot see the point that even if they have only one seat, but if that seat is needed to form a majority govt, that single seat is worth as much as the others. Once you are in a coalition, you have to cooperate with others. The altnernative is to stay in the Opposition bench and let UMNO form a minority govt.
    The selection of the MB is a prerogative of the Sultan. There should be no argument about that especially when DAP has agreed to support whomever the Sultan chose.
    Just look at Perlis and Trengganu. Even Pak Lah cannot do much if the Sultans do not agree with his choices.

  181. #181 by voice on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:24 am

    Yes, I’m from Perak and I don’t mind the MB from which party as long as he can help the people.

  182. #182 by choonchoy on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:30 am

    Dear LKS,

    Please consider all aspects before making any decisions or statements. With regards to the NEP, I personally feel it did not help the rakyat much and it has been abused by BN. However the damage done by the NEP is far and wide and cannot be remedied overnight. Before it can be abolished the bumis must be thought to fish. Remember they too are Malaysians and deserve the care and support of the govt. I disagree with Penang’s policy to do away with it altogether, I would suggest retaining a portion of the contracts for the bumis to compete amongst themselves so that they can have some time to adapt. The NEP must be removed but gradually. As for the open tender policy, I’m all for it.

    I wish you best of luck and smooth sailing.

  183. #183 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:31 am

    To expect DAP (if it keeps to its principles) to be able to work with PAS (if it keeps to its principles which I think it will) is a triumph of hope over logic. Unless one thinks that either or both do not keep to their principles and agendas diametrically opposed. Yet in saying that, I am not saying DAP representatives should leave Perak State govt if the PAS MB, for example, suddenly decides to push for some medieval Islamic practice in the state. I ask why should DAP leave and not PAS? If neither could push the other out, then stay on in the gridlock and fight it out! For DAP to leave what about the feelings of Perakians that voted it in? Wouldn’t that be a dereliction of duty to supporters and voters for DAP to walk out leaving PAS to carry on enjoying benefits of office when it is PAS, for example, that causes the first problem?

    The only good that could emanate from this erstwhile liaison and collaboration of expedience for now is that hopefully their collective victory in the last election will cause an implosion within the ruling coalition – which I believe is already beginning – and serve a wake up call for the BN and UMNO in particular to re-invent itself for the better in terms of proper and fairer governance to stop the country from slipping into the abyss of failure we witness elsewhere from Nigeria to Sri Lanka.

    Though conceivably unlikely that BN would change leaf for the better, if however it does, in a scenario of PAS gaining more and more strength to be able in due course to push for theocracy, many here will find themselves in an unexpected contradictory position of supporting and campaigning for the BN. :)

    We must recognise that what we so fervently want to believe (viability of PAS/DAP collaboration to replace BN whose very existence is disapproved by so many here) – to sustain our hopes and maintain our sanity – is one thing and what is the probable truth (that PAS would not change its agenda and will over time benefit more from such collaboration at DAP’s and Secular Malaysia’s expense), that in our moments of objectivity and clarity of mind, ought to be able to discern and recognise, is another thing.

    The fact is the threat of Islamo-fascism is clear and present, and gaining grounds whether you want to admit it or not. It is gaining ground because its detractors are caught between the dilemma of either (1) tolerating the intolerable policies of the existing incumbent coalition or (2) support the party with the agenda of Islamo-fascism presently dressed in different and more moderate livery and dress for popular presentation, and many would predictably fall for the latter’s blandishment because it resonates with their hopes and aspirations and refuse to confront the unpleasant truth. The fact that we have no choice but to go along with (2) is testimony of our pathetic predicament.

  184. #184 by chong on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:32 am

    Throw away the race and religion issues the current government don’t deploy double standard policies to give preference to certain group of people for intensionaly get their votes, I suggest: If the current government is good and delivered to general rakyat, give them one more term, if not, vote the opposite. The most 2 terms for a government.

    Unfortunately this is not true, because 60% of the population is Malay, so, UMNO tries hard to win their hearts by implementing preference policies to this group of people to attract their votes so that they can stay in power forever, unfortunately this is not true again because not all the Malay get the benefits of the UNMO double standard policies because the leaders of UNMO are too greedy and not generously enough. Furthermore, the intelligent supporter Malays of PKR (most supporters are emotion based) and PAS (most supporters are religious based) are independent and mature enough to be lured by Umno. When the Unmo votes from the main 60% of the population cannot be guaranteed, the remaining 40% of the population (which politically sidelined) determine the fate of the ruling body.

    The 12th GE results are “hasil” of the above situation. If there is no double standard in the country and if Malay/Chinese/Indian/Minority group are marture enough with common understanding of Malaysia for Malaysian, than we can see the true democracy in Malaysia. By then, the Malaysia is competitive worldwide.

  185. #185 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:34 am

    PAS’s agenda of Islamic state and Islamisation threatens the fundamental rights of non-Muslims. It seems unwise to risk trading our fundamental rights for short-term gains.

    The coalition governments in Selangor and Perak may well be short-lived, given the differences between DAP and PAS, unless DAP keeps compromising, thereby evolving into another MCA or Gerakan.

  186. #186 by HB Lim on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:41 am

    Uncle Kit, my comment in the earlier thread is still awaiting moderation after 24 hours. In that comment, I mentioned about the folly of Teng Chang Khim commenting to the press very soon after polling and victory day that he had the necessary credentials to be the Deputy MB but said that the DAP Central would block him from that post.

    This chap is not a team player. Now, he is doing something which will give a reason for those either brainless or shameless UMNO sore losers to go to the streets again to protest. Why can’t we have some conciliation and peace first. Don’t stir up unpleasantness. If he so dead against wearing a songkok, then the best he can do is to stay away from the occasion and be quiet. Don’t protest against the songkok and there is nothing wrong with wearing the songkok.

    The songkok is just a national headgear. Don’t read anything racial or religious into it and it is a harmless thing. I know the argument that it is not right to ‘force’ someone to wear something he does not like but this is for an audience before OUR Sultan. The Sultanate is an institution we have to respect, at least until the majority of the people decides to do away with it. That is democracy, isn’t it?

    In any event, we are not supposed to be chauvinistic, at least not anymore, if you want to govern this multiracial country. You are given the mandate to govern not for the purpose of ridding Malayness but to bring justice to all Malaysians. In fact we non-Malays should be proud to adopt and instill some positive Malayness into our respective non-Malay cultures. We should be proud that we Malaysian Chinese are different from Mainland China Chinese and that Malaysian Indians are different from Sub-continent Indian Indians.

    We do not want a divisive society, in fact we are very fed-up with the divisiveness along racial lines that we are facing now in this only country that we can call home and that was one reason for the change that we have so courageously made in the last GE. We have to work towards coming together as one people and that requires Malays and non-Malays to move towards each other, not by one recalcitrant race insisting that it is only the other race or races that have to move towards them. I don’t want to be a recalcitrant Chinese who would oppose anything Malay. Teng Chang Khim will be seen to be one recalcitrant and chauvinistic Chinese if he goes on making noises about having to wear a songkok. I am sure he is not chauvinistic at all but he has to learn to be more tactful in rejecting what he personally does not like. Staying away and keeping quiet is what he should do. Keeping him out of the Exco team is what DAP has to do. A little dangerous to have him around.

    I was very pleased to see Guan Eng wore a batik shirt the day after victory day. I thought that was very thoughtful and very symbolic. I am also very pleased that he has been speaking Bahasa Malaysia on TV to the media. Once in a while, a baju Melayu or an Indian costume would be superb. But not the 4-pocket bush jacket so favoured by the BN goons, especially the MCA guys. That to me is disgusting when worn in a political context. It is symbolic of corruption. Why else do you need so many pockets?

  187. #187 by AhPek on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:43 am


    I am getting to see your arguments as well as WY Lee’s in a better light with more informations especially from WY Lee . It would certainly do well for those who are overly exuberant over the collabration of DAP and PAS at all cost for the express purpose of dismantling of UMNOPUTRAS ways of going overboard in enriching themselves and furthering their institutionalised discrimation against minorities to take note.I am pretty sure YB KIT is completely aware of the possible pitfalls arising from such coalition.
    Another thing, Jeffrey how is it possible that Turkey is still a secular state in spite of the fact that the majority in Turkey is Muslim.Do you know?

  188. #188 by Old Geezer on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:43 am

    Previously, the formula was 6-2-2 including a PAS MB (am I right?). If that is correct, DAP already had a good deal. DAP should have just kept quiet. Instead it did the inexplicable and now ended up with 6-3-2 with a smaller margin. Along the way, DAP incurred the wrath of the Perak royalty and the Malays. And DAP is now happier?
    The question about PAS hudud laws is just a lame excuse. Because it is a coaltion with a DAP/PKR majority in the Exco, PAS would not be able to introduce any policies without DAP/PKR approval unless DAP/PKR is sleeping on the job. Simple as that. PAS has acknowledged that reality and has said this is not a PAS govt. Just look at their press statements from Kedah and Perak.
    If the Chinese voters fail to understand that, it is DAP’s responsibility to inform and educate the voters. Use your grassroot machinery to inform them.
    In the whole fiasco, DAP did a bad job in communicating with the people by not explaining the problem and the agreed solution. Malaysians, and Perakians in particular, only get bits and pieces from the media.
    The only press statement from YB Lim was the unthinkable – a call for a boycott of the swearing-in ceremoney, which was a slap in the face for the Perak royalty.

  189. #189 by KelvinSKGoh on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:57 am

    I am quite expected the Penang UMNO to protest and get angry when the CM announce the abolishment of NEP. This abolishment means a big hole in the pocket of the UMNO members and their friends and relatives by not getting any gov contract to sell to non-malays.

  190. #190 by novice101 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:58 am

    YB Lim Senior,

    You are spot on when you said it is time to move on into the uncharted Malaysian political waters. Who best to help us navigate in this uncharted waters than the leaders of DAP-PKR and PAS!

    The new political landscape forced, not only the DAP, but also the PKR and PAS to, immediately and frantically review the new political situation.

    The new political situation also forced the DAP and PAS to urgently review and reassess the need and necessity to work out a workable relationship. Both parties, this time, have no choice but are forced to seriously consider cooperating with each other as it is the expressed wish of the electorate. This is definitely historic and unprecedented!

    It is not only the DAP that wants to make sure it enters into the cooperative alliance without sacrificing its principles and policies. PAS, on its part, would be focusing on this aspect too. Since it is uncharted waters, tread, then, cautiously! Be more circumspect in your reactions and subsequent actions.

    YB, you have been in the Malaysian political arena for a long time. You have been unwavering in the struggle for a “Bangsa
    Malaysia”. Now it is within sight, do not do or say things that will jeopardise it.

    The new political scenario highlights it very clearly for all to see that this is achievable if the rakyat works together, transcending race and religion.

    Of course, some section of the community may be angry and accuse you of betray, while other may be suspicious of you, but you should take on the role of ‘champion’ for this ‘coming-together’ movement!

    Put the interest of the nation before anything else. Expound the need and necessity for such cooperation to the rakyat. Bring on the rebirth of democracy in Malaysia! Take whatever blames and accusations that may be thrown at your way. At the end of the day, if Malaysia will to become a Nation with One People, history cannot deny you a place at it pinnacle!

  191. #191 by hitchhiker on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:58 am

    In my opinion, having a PAS MB in Perak is a win-win-win situation for DAP-PAS-PKR coalition. Many things can be said about the past or status quo but DAP and PAS are being forced to adapt their policies in the next few years. If they fail to do so and govern ineffectively, Perak will fall back to BN’s hands.

    So, people, instead of criticising PAS and doubting them (which is counter-productive), why don’t us give ideas how DAP can work better with PAS or how to help PAS to be more moderate? Remember, DAP has no choice now but to work well with PAS in Perak in the next few years. If that is not achieved, BN will be back in power.

    Look forward and not backward.
    Sowing discords and raising suspicions are counter-productive.

    And Jeffrey, we make ideas become reality. Who would have thought Chinese would vote for PAS and Malays would vote for DAP before this GE? If there is a will, there is a way.

  192. #192 by DAVID_YONG on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:18 am

    dear LKS
    you say in your blog hudud law is DAP major concern…do u know that hudud law could not be implemented without federal govt approval ??….and hudud is only be applicable to the muslim not muslim is clearly stated in shariah. i dont see why non muslim particularly DAP should afraid of these law..

  193. #193 by aerolancer on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:18 am

    I agree with Perak MB selection by the wise Raja. Democracy is co-operation and DAP-PKR-PAS has to learn to accommodate each other to use this golden opportunity. The power of the MB is held in check by the coalition parties.
    Amidst the news recently broadcast, I think there are 2 issues that have to be addressed….
    1. What is a Malaysian and what can be identified with a Malaysian?
    2. How can we preach this to the young and the old of all races and religion? This identity has to be defined properly as the current concept of a Malaysian is too vague and not realistic. This election result has shown that, maybe this time, the public is ready to define this identity. This is the groundwork for social engineering Malaysia in a massive scale…. to right the wrongs, to waken the brain-washed and to encourage critical thinking even among Ah Pek, Ah Beng, perempik, the politicians & the royals etc.

    Undeniably, the mass media is crucial in social-engineering the true Malaysian to ensure a better future. The bill for press media freedom has to be discussed and debated. This new found freedom can then be introduced to the society gently as a substantial portion of Malaysian is still being easily influenced. I worked in UK and I love listening to political TV and radio shows. The debates and different views from different parties are discussed in wider public audience via prime time TV and radio. This is a standard that I hope we can achieve in Malaysia, instead of rhetoric chanting or the downsized version of academic discussion in halls. Once the press freedom is guaranteed, then the radio/TV station will compete with each other to broadcast the real issues in fairer ground!

  194. #194 by overseamsian on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:19 am

    uncle lim, colourful malaysian of all races – malay, chinese, indian have moved into uncharted water on the 8th March and we can only bound stronger together as BR walking the talk!

  195. #195 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:19 am

    If Jesus could walk on water, why can’t the DAP do the same??

  196. #196 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:22 am

    Answer. DAP is not the Son of God. To PAS Jesus is not the son of God. So nobody walks on water except God Himself! PAS at best can only hope to play God.

  197. #197 by bentoh on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:23 am

    Dear YB LKS,

    First of all, I’m telling you I, as a supporter of DAP, am extremely disappointed with the outcome of Selangor DAP Exco list that Merdekareview had alleged… I kept telling myself the rumors were not gonna be true, but it turned out that Teng Chang Khim, who yes confronted you before but happened to be an extremely capable senior state assemblyman and arguably the only state assemblyman that fought hard battles in Selangor state assembly along with Wong Swee Lim before, was denied even an exco position… not to say a very-well-deserved DMB position…

    I know this is a “party decision”, but I seriously hope the party could reconsider, and listen to the on-the-ground rakyat’s hope…

    Secondly, I would like to ask the DAP-election-fund and also the candidates, who seek for donations, either through web as well as on-ceramah donations, to issue statement regarding the total amount of donations received, the “fate” of the fund raised, how much and where the leftover money is going to! I believe this helps strengthen the integrity of DAP and ensuring the voters that DAP is indeed transparent…


  198. #198 by Old Geezer on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:32 am

    DAP just never learn.

    Now RPK reported at Malaysia Today about the songkok issue.

    Two months ago on January 14th, 2008 at 03: 25.33 under the discussion “Suspend-little-napoleon-school-principals-who-trample-on-rights-and-sensitivities-of-plural-malaysia”
    on the songkok issue, long before the election, I made a comment on the songkok and the need to respect the Agong and Sultans.
    My point is that DAP must respect the royalty and follow the protocol even if it is distasteful for some reasons, e.g. wearing a songkok (or in the present case, the PAS MB).

    I was roundly criticised by posters here but I was dead on target with that comment now that DAP is in a mess with the Perak and Selangor royalty.

    Part of my comment was:

    “…….There is a reason I bring this up and it involves the DAP.
    When the DAP ADUNs and MPs are required to meet the Agong or Sultans and if there is a dress code that involves the songkok for the men, what would the DAP ADUNs or MPs do?
    Before somebody suggest boycotting the Audience with the Agong or Sultans, let me remind them that, as citizens, all Malaysians have sworn allegiance to the Agong and the Sultans. By being elected representatives of the people, the DAP ADUNS and MPs represent the wishes of the people. So, you have to meet the Royalty and follow the protocol.
    An opposition party should have a platform policy that it only represents different policies and ideas in the running of the country, and for the common good of the country (inclusive of the Malays and non-Malays). It should assuage others that its aim is not to turn the country upside down by disrespecting the Agong and Sultans, or the system of government…..
    ..The DAP should earn respect from the Agong and Sultans by first of all respecting the position of the Royalty and to follow the royal protocol. If the protocol involves wearing the songkok, so be it.
    Otherwise, the DAP would find it hard to earn the trust of the Malays and the Royalty; and would have no credibility as a responsible political organization working for all Malaysians…..” (Old Geezer, January 14th, 2008 at 03: 25.33)

  199. #199 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:39 am

    Who says the songkok makes a person more Muslim or a Muslim out of a non-Muslim – like manners maketh man?

  200. #200 by cwk100 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:51 am

    Uncle Lim, the reactions which you got from all those wet markets don’t represents all those who voted for DAP in Perak. Those are aunties and uncles who are less informed.

  201. #201 by malaysian_at_large on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:51 am

    Lee Wang Yen says:

    The coalition governments in Selangor and Perak may well be short-lived, given the differences between DAP and PAS, unless DAP keeps compromising, thereby evolving into another MCA or Gerakan.


    I have read some of your comments to this post and the previous ones, and you are highly passionate about your belief about the inadvisability of proceeding with the cooperation with PAS in any way to run Perak and Selangor.

    The evidence you have provided regarding PAS stated goals and objectives are impeccable. I don’t believe anyone can deny that the goals of PAS and the goals of DAP are diametrically opposed to each other.

    In light of the results of the elections in Perak and Selangor, though, what recommendations do you have that will break the impasse?

    Your slippery slope argument that DAP will “evolve into another MCA or Gerakan” just does not seem to be substantiated because there are quite a number of differences between the BN government and the proposed working relationship for the future DAP-PKR-PAS governments of Perak and Selangor, and the evolving BR opposition at the national level.

    Your concerns and objections are real and I do not think the leaders of DAP are unaware of them, but, if you continue to harp your objections based on such fear, conjecture and “worst case” predictions, I doubt that it will add to the current discussion.

    Perhaps, you, along with other concerned readers of this blog can come up with a way to move forward constructively and help to build a strong, healthy and prosperous Malaysian future based on the democratic and just ideals and aspirations that are fundamental and important to most of those of us who wish nothing but the best for all Malaysians?

    As Fong Po Kuan declared at the Tony Pua ceramah, after all, the ultimate goal is to build a better, stronger and more just society for future generations!

    So, with that in mind, perhaps we ought to put our collective genuises together to help the elected representatives to hold onto the ultimate principles, and to learn to work together without compromising the eventual goals and objectives of building a more just society.

    Along the way, of course, we might have to give up some of our ideals, but perhaps, we can draw up what are the ultimate ideals that cannot possibly be compromised.

    You may disagree, but perhaps, most people, including the DAP leadership, have the view that giving up the MB’ship to a PAS member, and sitting in a government alongside PAS members are two ideals that are, all things considered, probably better off compromised, as long as the ultimate goal of creating a truly democratic, multi-ethnic, fair and just society in the state and in the country is achieved.

    Probably, if we now focus our attention on debating ways of maintaining the end goal in mind, rather than be obstinate about never, ever working or sitting in the same coalition, or having a titular head of government while maintaining the majority of the exco, etc.

    What do you think?

  202. #202 by m.hwang on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:54 am

    Dear YB Lim,

    OLD GEEZER’s right. Kesetiaan Kepada Raja Dan Negara. If you want to live in this country then you have to respect the Sultan…more so if you want to be part of a rennaissance in the creation of a Bangsa Malaysia.

    When you are in the opposition whatever you ramble on is like water off a duck’s back…ppl hear but they don’t listen. It’s ok to the Malays coz KS is just letting off steam. But my friend… being in power comes with much heavier responsibilities. Remember, the government is the servant of the ppl. Don’t be like the BN treating us like school children. See what happened to them.

    Now when you speak please think of the Malays, Chinese and Indians…think of all Malaysians coz now ppl will listen intently to what comes out of your mouth (or keyboard). Capitalise on your unprecedented gains this round by keeping quiet and start working hard. After all I voted for DAP all these years not because I support DAP but because I think we should have a strong opposition. The same goes for 90% of the voters who ticked Rocket this election, the election before this and the so many elections before last.

    My point being pls be humble, think before you speak and lastly start walking the talk. Good Luck.

    P.S.pls tell the guy who doesn’t want to wear a songkok, tell him to wear a cheongsum next time don’t wear mat salleh suits. Petty Patsy.

  203. #203 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:57 am

    //Another thing, Jeffrey how is it possible that Turkey is still a secular state in spite of the fact that the majority in Turkey is Muslim. Do you know?// – AhPek.

    Not much except (superficially) – it is, I think, generally due to foresight of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk better known as “The father of modern Turkey” who when Turkey became republic in 1923 with him as president, he emulated the liberal democracies of the West, attempted political and social reforms, and insisted that Turkey’s constitution being secular even though majority of populace were Muslims. These words “ A nation which makes the final sacrifice for life and freedom does not get beaten” are attributed to Atatürk . That is why until today Turkey is the most “secular” of all Muslim nations but even then at this moment there are fears that Turkey is going the Iran way because the Justice and Development Party, which has its roots in political Islam, has gained strength. It is Turks still embracing Kemal Atatürk’s secular legacy supported by army.

    Because Turkey is secular that’s why its easier for EEC to accept her as member. It is the only exceptional “secular” muslim country in the world as far as I know, but for how long, I don’t know in view of Political Islam gaining strength world wide since Ayatollah Khomeini’s Iranian Revolution…

  204. #204 by Old Geezer on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:03 am

    “Who says the songkok makes a person more Muslim or a Muslim out of a non-Muslim – like manners maketh man?” undergrad2

    Exactly. That has been the problem in the debate here about the songkok two months ago.
    I was so disgusted with the responses to my comments on the need to respect the royal protocol that I have to quit posting and only came back yesterday to say, in effect, “I told ya so”.
    I don’t know how DAP can redeem itself with the Malays that voted for them.
    Do you think Perak and Selangor will be back in BN’s hands come next GE? If Pak Lah calls an early election, if he is still around, that is only 4 years away.
    If Guan Eng doesn’t put a foot in his mouth, I think Penang would still be DAP’s but with smaller majority (lost all Malay votes) in the next GE13.
    Probably I am just too pessimistic.

  205. #205 by supersagi on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:03 am

    I have been waiting endlessly for your latest posting and pray hard that you will not take all those harsh comment so HARD.

    I got to go round telling my friends that am confident you ain’t simply talking for the sake of talking and writing.

    None of us know the real scenario and should not jump to conclusion.

    None of us had been thru what you did

    None of us make as many sacrifices as you had

    So, who are we to be your judge?

    Take care and you still have my respect and DAP will always have my (and family members) vote in the future.

    Thank you for everything! May God bless you with joy and success!

  206. #206 by showsomemercy on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:24 am

    No matter what happens, rain or shine, we should give the opposition a chance to show their colors… at least 2 terms… Maybe the first term is more like a learning process to them…

    Don’t expect miracles in just short period of time… they are no GOD nor Saint… You have given Barisan Neraka 50 years…

    So nothing wrong if we give them 2 terms… :)

  207. #207 by dawsheng on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:25 am

    Before DAP came into power, the party was held in high regards for the issues it championed and the facts that DAP gained supports because it was due to the failures of MCA and Gerakan to address and settle all these issues. In a away, the election results has shown that the minorities, especially the Chinese, has lost hopes in MCA and Gerakan to do their job for them, and this includes to protect their rights in the wake of UMNO and PAS locking in a battle to out-Islamize each other, the issue of Ketuanan Melayu and the NEP. But soon after DAP came into power at the level of opposition state government (still in the opposition), the party are now being criticized for for what it has always been doing. What some people want from DAP now is for the party to walk the paths of MCA and Gerakan.

  208. #208 by dawsheng on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:29 am

    “Probably I am just too pessimistic.” Old Geezer

    You are, for the wrong reasons.

  209. #209 by Godfather on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:30 am

    Kit tells everyone to move on in unchartered waters, but obviously not everyone is listening and we have that broken record over and over again.

    Who is going to get rid of the broken record, so that we can all move on ?

  210. #210 by deekay on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:32 am

    Ok. Let’s move on now and see what you guys can do for us, Malaysians. We hope for the better.

  211. #211 by Godfather on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:33 am


    I suggest you start new threads on issues like (1) warning from Badawi to the Opposition (2) comments from Lim Keng Yaik (3) demonstrations by UMNO etc etc.

    If you don’t have new threads, some of the right wing clowns here will continue their scaremongering by repeating old internet articles that take up bandwidth.

  212. #212 by cucu adam on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:36 am

    DAP-PKR-PAS is now the state government in the states of Kedah, Penang, Perak and Selangor. On its own none of the parties could rule any of the state in an effective and orderly manner.

    Make the lose coalition works, and look forward towards the future. And should it works, there are possibilities that more states will be ruled by the lose coalition in the near future, and you never know that the coalition may even be able to rule our beloved Malaysia.

    It is going to be tough on the part of Barisan Nasional to regain the four states, unless of course the coalition is not interested to rule the four states.

    Something need to be done in Sabah and Sarawak if the coalition ever dream to rule Malaysia. Strengthen the existing local parties that are already there, as DAP, PKR and PAS may be looked upon as West Malaysian parties, and they resist may to these parties expanding their power in the two Borneo states.

    Good Luck to DAP-PKR-PAS coalition – May It Works

  213. #213 by showsomemercy on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:38 am

    So who shows more disrespect to the Sultan? Shitdan (Perlis fella, dont know how to spell) or Lim Kit Siang? :)

    One didn’t apologize and one apologize…


  214. #214 by Menang atau mati on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:40 am

    Oh no!

    That Mr Lee Wan Y…… again?

    Dear Mr Lee ,

    You claim you are a Chinese and a strong supporter of DAP yet you bash DAP again and again.

    You also bash PAS persistently so as to instill among us a fear for PAS.

    Clearly, from my reading of the posts here the majority of the people here do not agree with you.

    Yet you keep repeating your broken record of PAS so called undesirable Islamic Agenda.We are bored to death with it.

    As someone here suggested why don’t you start your own blog. Then you can blog to your heart’s content on the undesirability of PAS

    Two parties may have differences but that shouldn’t stop them from working together in areas where they have common grounds for the good of the Rakyat.

    As many here have asked you – would you prefer Perak to be ruled by BN?

    Please answer to the point – just yes or no.Spare me any long theoretical thesis.

    There is bound to be some teething problems of the Rakyat coalition governments as this is the first time they are going to work together but I do not think that these cannot be overcomed.So I say to all – be patient.,

    Give them a break and give them time to adjust to one another.

    Honestly ,I suspect you are a BN cybertrooper.

    If you keep harping on the same issues,I may ask the bloggers here to take a referendum on you –Is Lee Wan Y…… a BN cybertrooper? Should we post a warning to new bloggers to warn of Lee Wan Y…. as a BN cybertrooper?Should we ask Uncle Lim/Administrator to bar him from this site?

    My dear fellow bloggers,should we move a motion to that effect?It is your (the bloggers’) call.

  215. #215 by kenghuei81 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:42 am

    YB Lim,

    Well-said and it is good that you make the DAP stand clear that it was all along not having any pact with PAS, not until Perak and Selangor was won unexpectedly.

    ‘Barisan Rakyat’ does exist indeed, but I think we must understand it carefully..from Harris Ibrahim’s blog of The People’s Parliament :

    “…Hence Lim Kit Siang’s statement on 6th March that there’is no such thing as Barisan Rakyat. DAP has no general election co-operation with PAS’.

    His statement is, in my view, factually correct. To the best of my knowledge, there was never any election pact or co-operation between DAP and PAS. PKR appeared to play the go-between.

    And yes, there is no entity in law known as ‘Barisan Rakyat’.
    Barisan Rakyat is the aspiration and hope of the rakyat.

    That hope, for many of us, myself included, for a better tomorrow, encompasses both DAP and PAS, along with others.

    However, be clear that Barisan Rakyat entails a pact between each of the 6 parties and us, the rakyat, that they would give effect to the People’s Declaration if they were mandated at the last elections to rule.

    Not a pact between the 6 parties..”

    It may be a bit hard to understand that BR is a pact between each party with they rakyat, but not a pact between the parties.
    When the parties are not working with each other, how can it work for the raykat as a whole?
    But if we see it that way, to put it simply, BR is just PKR, PAS and DAP (+ other parties) coming together during the election under the banner of “Makkal Sakti” or “Harapan Malaysia” to deny BN of 2/3 majority..but they are not ready to work together yet or to form a government (even a state government) in this case.

    So yes, I agree and totally support your call to move into the “unchartered waters” now for that is the only way to move forward. For a strong PAS+PKR+DAP coalition, I forsee below must happen :

    a) PAS – Relaxes it stance on Islamic State/Hudud, come up with ideologies/administration which are more inclusive of the Malaysian society, irregardless of race/religion. This would be tough as it is not easy for the Islamic party to separate Religion with State..but they have to,if there is ever a dream of governing Malaysia one day. Do not expect the Chinese and Indians (esp the Christians) to give in to any Islamic way of ruling the state or nation. Afterall, come on, this is the 21st century..it is the new generation, so be secular and relevant! Siti Mariah and Husam Musa are examples of positive hopes for this…the lifestyle of Chinese in Kelantan would be a good testimony of the willingless of PAS to compromise :


    b) DAP – Drop all those traditional chinese racist mindset and learn to embrace the Malays (note, not Islam) as much as possible, even to some extent, the Malay cultures (like the Songkok case in Selangor). Always keep in mind that Malaysia is still a Malay majority nation, without Malays support, DAP can go no where. I believe the DAP has already well accepted above, that was why the coalition with PKR, but not PAS yet..because of the Islam factor. Do not jump into drastic changes and be sensitive to the Malay rights issues. Take it gradually for acceptable changes to all.

    c) PKR – Continue to be the secular, multi-racial party that helps to bridge the gap between DAP and PAS. It must guard against power craze, remembering that the very existence of the party, begins with fighting for a clean, transparent and fair-for-all government. The fact that PKR today has the largest number of Parliament seats (its big jump from 1 to 31) shows that this party is totally relevant as an important partner in making the Barisan Raykat government possible one day.

    I still have hopes in this coalition government. Let’s work together with above in mind, for the next 5 years. Bear in mind, the rakyat has the power to vote you out (just as they have voted you in), if you could not show that you are a better alternative than the BN.

    All the best, YB and fight on! Take care.


  216. #216 by Godfather on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:46 am

    Lee Wang Yen and Dawsheng have consistently said that DAP should withdraw from the Perak ruling coalition, and that they would prefer Perak and Selangor to be ruled by BN rather than have DAP cooperate with PAS in these two states.

    We should simply ignore these narrowminded people who can’t seem to accept what the majority has decided. By not accepting that their criticisms would play into the hands of BN, and by continuously playing their broken record, they could well be BN agents masquerading as DAP supporters.

  217. #217 by dawsheng on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:48 am

    Godfather, it is not like you have to pay for the bandwidths, and you have the liberty to ignore the comments should you think it is not worth reading, but should you choose to engage in a debate, then let it be proper. Nobody, including God can dictate what people want to believe, I am puzzled in what way you think you have the rights to censor and to insult other commentators when this is not even your blog?

  218. #218 by Godfather on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:51 am

    What I am saying, as what others have been saying is this: Put up or shut up. We have decided. DAP has decided.

  219. #219 by Godfather on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:52 am

    Go to a pro-BN blog and make your comments there. It is more appropriate. We want to discuss others things.

  220. #220 by Godfather on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:54 am

    I will insult those who still can’t understand basic English. Or those who can’t understand that once the DAP leadership has decided, there is nothing else left to discuss. Those who put DAP at risk are morons.

  221. #221 by HB Lim on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:54 am

    Responding to Jeffrey’s comment, here are my thoughts.

    The incontrovertible Malaysian facts are:

    1. Islam is here to stay and there is no way we can even imagine it being evaporated from the face of Malaysia;

    2. PAS have hitherto championed an extremist or, using the terminology of Jeffrey, a fascist form of Islam;

    3. Politically, PAS are gaining grounds amongst the Muslims;

    4. In the contest for popularity, UMNO has become more and more extremist and fascist in recent times;

    5. Not all PAS members and leaders are Muslim extremists or fascists; many are moderate and progressive Muslims;

    6. DAP is not opposed to Islam per se but to a theocratic, Islamic State;

    7. Even though our Constitution provides for a secular Malaysia, yet at the same time it holds out Islam as the official religion;

    8. The Constitution has been amended to set up the Syariah judicial system which has adversely affected non-Muslims on many occasions in the grey area where the Syariah law and jurisdiction overlap or intersect with Civil law and jurisdiction;

    The result is that non-Muslims are confused about, suspicious and fearful of Islam and PAS. The only way to address and resolve confusion, suspicion and fear is to investigate, learn and understand the subject or event which is causing the confusion, suspicion or fear. We have to get into and understand Islam and Muslims more instead of just standing on the other side and shouting at them and hoping that they will go away. As said, the fact is that they will not.

    Having studied a little Islamic law, I know that there are a few strands of Islamic jurisprudence and that the moderate interpretation of Islamic law is gaining ground. It must be, to my mind, if God is to be seen as the loving One who looks at the hearts of men rather than their actions. In religion, it is the substance rather than the form which would will make it endure amongst its believers. The hypocrisy of a religious fanatic would be quickly exposed if he has no true inner religious understanding and conviction to substantiate his outward form.

    Like the NEP, Islam has been misinterpreted or misapplied. I believe that Islam is a noble religion and teaching. It is just that some Muslims are more form than substance and that makes them sound and act like empty vessels. Opposite of the noble NEP is the manifestation of material corruption and opposite of the noble Islam is that of religious maniacs, a religious corruption. Both are dangerous but will soon become apparent, intolerable and be rejected even by and within their own, an implosion if you like Jeffrey’s use of the term within the context of the BN component parties.

    What I am trying so hard to say is that we should not reject Islam per se and should not be fearful of it. Instead, we should move into it, study it, discuss about it, understand it though not necessarily embracing it and I am sure we can find the truth and the jewel in it which can be used to 1. influence and encourage the flourishing of moderate Islam within PAS specifically and within our Muslim bethren in general and 2. persuade non-Muslims not to be afraid of a DAP-PAS coalition specifically and an interaction and cooperation with Muslims in general.

    Since it is a fact that we have to live with Islam and Muslims in Malaysia, there is no way that we can close our minds to, stay away from and object to them. Maybe, on one fine day, we may be able to legislate for a complete divorce of the State from Religion but that, if it happens at all, will take some time. In the meanwhile, we have to live with each other. The only way we can do that is to move one step closer to each other and one step away from our present position.

    Non-Muslims must learn about and learn to accept true Islam and Muslims and become more accomodating to them and Muslims must learn about and learn to accept and practise true Islam and the truth about being Muslims and become more moderate by emphasising substance over form.

    If we let God be God and we remain mortals but obedient to God, we will be or at least learn to be just to others even if they are not of the same religion. Why? Because Justice is a part of Truth. Religion is about the search for and an abiding by the Truth. Only when we have found and emphasise Truth and Justice, can we start to accept each other and live together. Otherwise, it would just be painful tolerance of each other and tolerance is what the BN has been asking us to do. Tolerance is just one step away from an explosion.

    Ultimately, we are to have love, peace and joy together and they can be achieved but only in in that order. To have the joy, we must first have the peace. To have the peace, we need to first have the love for each other. That is my Christian teaching but I believe, coming from the same Moses or Musa, Islam teaches the same thing.

    So, love, peace and joy in that order. How do we find the love? By discarding the fear and moving towards each other. It is difficult to love each other from a distance. How do we discard the fear? Back to the top of this page and it is by getting closer to each other and learning about and understanding and influencing and teaching each other.

    In the political context, it is the complete eradication of the politics of fear, the politics of divide and rule, the politics of race which have been fed and nourished by the government of the BN and UMNO and their ball-carriers all these years which have kept us within and apart in dark silos of racial and religious rights, suspicion and hatred.

    Now that we have broken out of the confines of those silos, we are naturally a little dispersed, a little blinded by the light. We have to get used to it. But first of all, stay a little quiet and get use to the light so that we would not bump into each other and start fighting in blindness. It is not the darkness anymore but the temporary blindness. After this, we shall bask in light.

    The moral of it all? Everyone, cool down! Starting with the DAP and especially and presently Teng Chang Khim. I am not questioning your good intention but as I have said many times in this blog, be cool, cool down, be a little quiet, get use to your new environment and circumstance first. Then learn, discuss, understand Islam and then march on with everyone especially the Malays and Muslims towards Truth and Justice, Love, Peace and Joy. Too idealistic? That is the only way to go, within the Malaysian context and population make-up, the only big National Objective though some may be sceptical about it or laughing at me for being naive.

    Hope you are not bored.

  222. #222 by Menang atau mati on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:56 am


    We can only give our opinions .

    We did not get involved in the years of struggle of DAP and made the sacrifices the DAP politicians did all these years although we did give our votes.

    So, any decision they make, let us respect it.It is their call.
    They know better in this matter.

  223. #223 by dawsheng on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:04 am

    “Mistakes were made by political parties adapting to the sweeping changes caused by the March 8 political tsunami.”

    I certainly do not understand what kind of mistakes Uncle Kit was referring to?

  224. #224 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:07 am

    We can surely discuss and evaluate something that has been decided.

    On hearing the SPR’s decision to cancel the use of indelible ink, many people discussed and criticised it. Imagine if SPR were to stop those discussions by saying what Godfather said to me…

    For those who find my comments and excerpts unhelpful, they should just ignore them. Others have found them helpful. I’m happy with this. I don’t expect everyone to like them.

  225. #225 by showsomemercy on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:08 am

    Lee Wan Y still can use other nick…

    Anyway check this out guys…

    UMNO = Uneducated Moronic Neanderthal Organization

  226. #226 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:16 am

    Godfather Says:
    Today at 03: 51.22 (16 minutes ago)

    ‘What I am saying, as what others have been saying is this: Put up or shut up. We have decided. DAP has decided.’

    in a later comment,
    Godfather says:

    ‘Go to a pro-BN blog and make your comments there. It is more appropriate. We want to discuss others things.’

    These remind me of Nor Omar – ‘Go back to your own country if you ‘re not happy.’

  227. #227 by Godfather on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:18 am

    No, I am better than Noh Omar. I say, “come back from the UK and make your voice heard here.” Don’t just post internet links and articles. Be more up to date.

  228. #228 by dawsheng on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:21 am

    “DAP leaders and members have to be fully aware of these concerns. Whether a DAP-PKR-PAS Perak coalition government with PAS MB succeeds or not will depend on its performance and record to demonstrate (i) that the welfare and livelihood of the people of Perak is better safeguarded and promoted than under previous Barisan Nasional state governments; and (ii) that no further Islamisation policies are introduced to the detriment of the constitutional rights of all Malaysians, regardless of race or religion.”

    In clause (ii) not only further Islamisation policies will be detrimental constitutional rights of all Malaysians, but here if at any point of time as it may be for any reasons PAS deemed fit it must obliges where if PAS don’t will be detrimental to them, further introduces Islamasation policies, the consequences will just be as detrimental to the credibility of DAP as a political party. I am ok with uncharted waters but what is underneath the uncharted waters?

  229. #229 by showsomemercy on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:22 am

    Hey godfather and menang atau mati, you all don’t sleep one? Everyday see you all here until wee hours! :) For me, i after drinking session lei… :)

  230. #230 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:22 am

    It is said that those who criticise DAP’s decision cannot be a DAP supporter.

    Amazingly, I’ve been hearing a lot of BN rhetoric here, including ‘we must look at the big picture’, and ‘we’ll have to live with the reality’ (that Malays and Islam dominate).

    The latest is the claim that one who criticises X cannot be loyal/patriotic to X.

    It reminds me of BN leaders’ accusation that opposition leaders and Hindraf people who criticise the leaders of this country must be unpatriotic to this country.

  231. #231 by cto on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:22 am

    Lee Wang Yen Says:

    Today at 04: 07.53 (9 minutes ago)
    We can surely discuss and evaluate something that has been decided.

    On hearing the SPR’s decision to cancel the use of indelible ink, many people discussed and criticised it. Imagine if SPR were to stop those discussions by saying what Godfather said to me…


    There is a difference though – DAP agreed to enter into a coalition with PAS and PRK to form the Perak state govt. It is poor form to attack and/or turn your back on a partner. DAP is not in partnership with the body that decided on not using idelible ink.

  232. #232 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:31 am

    You miss the Nor Omar analogy (note that this is an analogy), which is meant to work as follows:

    Nor Omar’s and Godfather’s statements share the following similarity:

    ‘If you are not happy with what is associated with X, leave X’

    Nor Omar
    Not happy with what we do here (Malaysia) — Go away (leave Malaysia and go back to your home country)

    Not happy with DAP’s decision — Go away (leave DAP’s LKS’s blog and go to BN’s blog)

  233. #233 by Wisdom above on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:34 am

    ..The new state governments must be patient.

    ..They must also avoid making drastic changes.

    ..The Penang state government can review the ‘deviations’ of the New Economic Policy silently.

    ..However, it does not need any publicity. Otherwise, the rebound will be very intense.

    ..The people with bad intention might strike back and it may create social

    >’Open tender system’ envisaged by the ‘Auditor General Office’ should be promoted.

    Invite the Auditor General office & PAC to help out.

    Use positive approaches at all times.

    Talk less & get down to run as a Government.

    See ex- CM Dr. Koh uses positive approach even not elected.He is cool.

    I recommend Dr Koh to be appointed as ‘consultant salaried adviser’ to the New State Government on continous implementation of economic reforms for a Dynamic Penang.

    It is a win win situation for a Dynamic Penang.

    Syabas. Barisan Rakyat.

  234. #234 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:37 am


    I think you miss the point.

    someone says that
    Some authority in DAP (its leadership) has made a decision (to ally with PAS), members and supporters of DAP should not criticise.

    according to this satement, we can infer the principle that
    if some authority in X has made a decision on Y, members and supporters of X should not criticise.

    According to this principle,

    Some authority in Malaysia (SPR) has made a decision (to cancel the use of ink), members and supporters of Malaysia should not criticise.

  235. #235 by Menang atau mati on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:38 am

    Can’t help but laugh out loud.

    Equating asking someone to go to another blog as equivalent to asking someone to go back to your ancestor’s country of origin?

    Any logic here?

    If there is logic,how about:

    Rm1 is money;Rm1 million is also money.

    Therfore RM1 = RM 1 million?

    Boleh kah?

    Malaysia boleh!

    Lee Wan Y….. pun boleh!

  236. #236 by Menang atau mati on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:40 am

    showsomemercy Says:

    Today at 04: 22.02 (16 minutes ago)
    Hey godfather and menang atau mati, you all don’t sleep one? Everyday see you all here until wee hours! For me, i after drinking session lei…

    Sleep – must sleep.

    Sleep late – wake up late!

  237. #237 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:45 am

    Meaning atau mati

    I think you have no idea of what is an inductive argument by analogy. An inductive argument by analogy does not involve logical equivalence in the way you describe (or more precisely, caricature) it.

  238. #238 by showsomemercy on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:46 am

    Lolz… I gtg now lar Menang Atau Mati… With you and Godfather i am sure this blog will be protected from all those bad omen! Good night…

    Lee what ever wang yen please go and sleep…

    NO neeed so rajin to work for your boss…

    Adios my friends… and take care…

  239. #239 by shamanov on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:48 am

    Mr. LKS,

    Akhirnya lu tau kami vote BR, bukan semata2 vote DAP. Lu politician yang ada pegangan dan masih ‘ada hati’ coz minta maaf dengan voters dan semestinya Sultan Perak.

    Orang yang kata lu biadab, mereka tu orang utan esp BN-UMNO dan paper UM-BH yang dah tak de maruah tu. Mereka tengah separuh gile, tiba2 nak salahkan dan cari salah BR. Yang lebih biadab sekalang adalah Idris Jusoh ngan Shahidan.

    Pendapat saya, lu ngan PKR concentrate on Penang, coz UMNO-BN gile tengah cari silap lu, walhal masa depa rules, itu Melayu mana duduk. Lu kecikkan jurang ekonomi Melayu India Cina sebaik mungkin la.

    Kedua, lu jangan ingat Cina ari ni sama dgn 10 tahun lepas, mereka semakin open dan memahami perjuangan PAS, mereka sudah tidak takut, malah mereka suka PAS. Lu kaji dan fikirlah sendiri. Ingat better you pigi sana kelantan dengan MT DAP, dan tengok sana negeri, tengok Datuk Nik Aziz kasi potong sama lu atau tidak. Kami olang Islam sayang sama lu, lebih dari lu sayang diri lu sendiri. Lu jangan ingat takut cina tak sokong lu lagi kalau lu baik sama PAS, itu fitnah UMNO-BN.

    Hidup BR. Come on LKSiang.

  240. #240 by Menang atau mati on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:51 am

    Reminds me of my schooldays.

    Schoolchildren like to show off new big sounding words .

    We just say to them;

    “Please spare me your big sounding words and theories.”

  241. #241 by Menang atau mati on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:54 am

    showsomemercy Says:

    Today at 04: 46.32 (9 seconds ago)
    “Lolz… I gtg now lar Menang Atau Mati… With you and Godfather i am sure this blog will be protected from all those bad omen! Good night…

    Lee what ever wang yen please go and sleep…

    NO neeed so rajin to work for your boss…

    Adios my friends… and take care…”


    I really like your second last sentence;

    “NO neeed so rajin to work for your boss…”

    Really cute one!

  242. #242 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 5:01 am

    It also reminds me of someone’s schooldays.

    When two children discussed something. A third child butted in and laughed at them for one of the points discussed because he did not understand the principles involved in the discussion. When the two children tried to explain the principles to them, the third child said ‘you like to show off your knowledge by using bombastic words’

    One of the two children told him, ‘I wouldn’t have to use these words…actually I wouldn’t even need to explain anything to you, if you had not criticised something you didn’t even understand’.’

  243. #243 by gofortruth on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 5:11 am

    1968 Muslims in Malayisa 45%

    2008 Muslims in Malaysia 60%

    2058 Muslims in Malaysia 70%?

    2108 Muslims in Malaysia 80%?

    Whether you like it or not Islamization is going ot be here. Lets hope that it won’t be Iranian type but Turkish.

    We are already on step 2 – how best to govern the new states tactfully under this ‘new partnership”.

    Please invest our precious time and focus our thoughts and chip in constructive & tactful ideas to help. Beating around step 1 – “to join the coalition or not” is just so meaningless now. lets find ways to work together under this young coalition instead of hunting a way to split. Do you & your children wish to be bullied & bulldozed by BN for the next 50 years? Of course there are always some bright & brilliant people who can run to any other country in the world to stay, but for most of us average Malaysians, we have no other place to go.

  244. #244 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 6:18 am

    “I (Old Geezer) was so disgusted with the responses to my comments on the need to respect the royal protocol that I have to quit posting and only came back yesterday to say, in effect, “I told ya so”. Old Geezer

    And I shall say it again!

    Who says wearing the songkok makes a Muslim more Muslim, and makes a Muslim out of a man who is not a Muslim – like “Manners maketh man”?


  245. #245 by cto on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 6:28 am

    Lee Wang Yen Says:

    Today at 04: 37.57 (1 hour ago)

    I think you miss the point.

    someone says that
    Some authority in DAP (its leadership) has made a decision (to ally with PAS), members and supporters of DAP should not criticise.

    according to this satement, we can infer the principle that
    if some authority in X has made a decision on Y, members and supporters of X should not criticise.

    According to this principle,



    Yes, you are right. I agree with you that I do not get the point. :)

    What you are essentially doing is not a proof by induction but rather it is an extrapolation without a check on the scope or careful considerations on the boundary conditions. It is akin to pointing out to me that the prairies is flat and then concluding that the world must be flat. :)

    At any rate, with all due respect to you I can agree to disagree with you.

    I personally do not have a problem if DAP wants out of the coalition and then criticise PAS. However, if DAP has decided to be in the partnership with PAS, boycotting the swearing ceremony and criticising PAS in public in a DAP blog is bad form. Using your inductive and additive logic, I think this is equivalent to being two face about the partnership.

  246. #246 by Godfather on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 6:28 am

    Ordinarily I would not bother with countering the comments made by LWY and Dawsheng. The belong to the DAP right wing, and they will perpetually bash PAS, irrespective of what the DAP has decided to do.

    My only fear is that these short-sighted right wing supporters are doing more harm to DAP than they realise, and are giving ammunition to the very people we threw out in the elections.

    We want to move forward, they don’t and they keep harping on the same issues which the majority don’t want to hear.

    They still don’t understand the term “PUT UP OR SHUT UP”. It’s not the lack of democracy; it’s the damage that you are doing to the cause of hundreds of thousands of voters who have voted for change and are looking forward to see how a multiracial coalition in Perak and Selangor can do for us.

  247. #247 by Old Geezer on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 6:29 am

    I read RPK’s article “Small things please small minds”, and just stopped reading halfway because it hurts. It hurts because it is correct and true.
    I think that it is true DAP was never ready to be in the govt and the shocking turn of event was so sudden that DAP basically came out mom cha cha, not knowing exactly how to proceed because it has never been, or expected to be, a govt.
    They forgot that the ‘boycott” mentality is a thing of the past, now that they are part of the govt. Funny isn’t it, that a govt boycotts itself?
    I think that instead of having kenduris or 12-course dinners to celebrate this historic event, the coalition of DAP/PKR/PAS should send all their ADUNs and MPs for a short intensive course on basic principles of the Constitution, parliamentary and legislative procedures, and royal protocol. They need that lectures badly because obviously they don’t know sh*t how to be part of a multiracial govt.

  248. #248 by Godfather on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 6:29 am

    Sorry, second line should be “..they belong…”

  249. #249 by Godfather on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 6:38 am

    Maybe LWY is a political science student, and talks about inductive reasoning, extrapolation, etc – all in theory. The very fact is that the DAP/PKR/PAS coalition is already under severe threat from BN – witness the comments in the mainstream media and in the recent demonstrations. Yet we have people (supposedly OUR own people) giving ammunition to the BN thieves that the coalition is not going to work, the DAP should stay away, PAS is never to be trusted, BN should rule in Perak and Selangor, etc etc. Why should we allow a few rotten apples to upset the whole apple cart ?

    As a voter of the Opposition, and a supporter of multiracial cooperation, why should I let a numbskull from the UK tell me that for the sake of democracy, we should allow him to shout at the top of his voice against the majority ?

  250. #250 by Godfather on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 6:51 am

    In this thread, and in the previous thread of over a thousand comments, some of us have asked LWY and Dawsheng and Jeffrey this basic question:

    Since the DAP has decided to work with PKR and PAS in Perak and Selangor, why can’t you accept the decision and move on ? Why can’t you see that you are destabilising DAP and the ruling coalitions in these two states ?

    Their answer was: even the minority has the right to be heard. Then they start airing their list of negative articles on PAS and Islam found through the net and through wikipaedia.

    The broken record was played many times. The answer may be that they KNOW they are destabilising the ruling coalitions in Perak and Selangor, and that they are doing all these to make them fail.

  251. #251 by gofortruth on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 6:55 am

    Old Geezer Says:

    Today at 06: 29.09 (22 minutes ago)
    Old Geezer has made a good point and I think it is not only confined to DAP people only, PKR and PAS people should also go through that short intensive course, after all BN has ruled the country for so long we certainly can’t expect BR people to flow into it instantly.

  252. #252 by gofortruth on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 6:59 am

    LWY has taken enough of our time & space here, in future just ignore his comments. Moderator should do something, our minds can’t stay focus.
    I’m writing from Paris.

  253. #253 by KudaHitam on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 6:59 am

    Malaysia moved into uncharted waters in the early morning after all the election results were announced. DAP is still trapped in its own antagonistic mindset..Hey the time now is to forge new political alliances with PKR/PAS and work on common grounds. Does DAP have what it takes to form the next government? Is DAP going to be a more “INCLUSIVE PARTY” for all Malysians?

  254. #254 by Old Geezer on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 7:20 am

    Dawsheng, are you Teng Chang Khim?

    “dawsheng Says:
    Today at 01: 11.34 (5 hours ago)

    Raja Petra must learn how to get facts right
    Raja Petra made scathing remarks on me in Malaysia-Today.
    Although I am in the rush to go to Penang now, I have to respond immediately….”

  255. #255 by ENDANGERED HORNBILL on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 7:21 am

    Lee Wang Yen Says:

    Yesterday at 19: 23.46
    ‘I still think PAS can be reasonable and principled.’

    The core principle that PAS holds on to is Islamic State. As Hadi Awang has said, PAS will not give way on the issue of Islamic state, since this is why they are fundamentally different from UMNO.

    WEll, China is communist but they have adopted many, many capitalistic elements today as they adapt to the realities of the times?

    PAS must adapt. The changes must be effected through consensus building at the state assemblies now. DAP, PKR must play key roles in such consensus building programs.

    Hello, Lee W Y – I see HOPE and CHANGE coming. Look out for 2013 and see this government-in-waiting become he new federal government as well. Meanwhile, let’s all give them our utmost support and assistance.

  256. #256 by RGRaj on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 7:39 am

    While we’re arguing, I’m damn sure the PAS leadership is secretly drawing up their future master-plan to fully takeover the state of Perak.

    PAS has softened up on their stance of implementing the Islamic state? Snort! Snort! That must be joke of the century!!!

    You will NEVER give up your main principle, no matter what situation you find yourself in. Just like DAP will never give up on the concept of “Malaysian Malaysia”, PAS will NEVER give up their dream of a full sharia state. You must be dreaming if you think otherwise.

  257. #257 by Old Geezer on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 7:51 am

    YB Lim,
    Over at Teng Chang Khim’s blog he mentioned
    “Thirdly, the issue of non Malays wearing songkok is a separate issue …. It has been a party policy and needs to be deliberated in view of the new development.”.
    Is it official DAP policy not to wear a songkok before the Sultan?
    No wonder I received so much flak for saying that DAP has to follow royal protocol even if it means wearing a songkok.
    (According to Raja Petra, songkok for man is part of royal protocol.)

  258. #258 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 7:56 am

    Morning Bloggers,

    Oh No!…. No……..The Unbearable IT is on the move again and is central to the discussion Again!!!!

  259. #259 by ChinNA on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:00 am

    The political environment is not simple. We all have our own prejudices (justified or otherwise). Is PAS to be trusted? Is DAP a mono-racist party? Is PKR a trully Malaysian party? … and the list goes on.

    Like what MrLim says it’s time to move on.

    I would like to ask Move On to what? To Where? How Do We Execute?

    Take a look at Singapore on how the PAP reach out to the masses thru their grass-roots organisations. My first suggestion would be to implement Meet-The-People / People Meet The MP every other week.

    This is a basic step in keep our feet on the ground and planting our foot right into the life of the daily folks. Revitalise and delegate it to strong grassroots.

    Don’t be like the politicians described in the syair “Panji-Panji” by Usman Awang. The politicians came around only one every five years.

    I am from Ipoh near Pasir Pinji. The local town council is doing bad job in maintenance of roads and fields. I wrote in to MBI, I called MBI, I called MCA for help, I called DAP.

    MBI did nothing. MCA and DAP advised that it is futile as they cannot do anything to MBI. MBI don’t care. So this goes on and on.

    That was in 2004, 2006 and now 2008, it is still the same old problem.

    I urge the MPs/ADUNs go to the people, meet them the way PAP does it in Singapore. Even if you fail to effect changes to 100% of the requests, your sincerity will win people over.

    Previous DAP’s ability to effect changes might be limited. Today, I would like to imagine that it had improved some what.

    I am in Singapore for some years now. The PAP is quite effective in government Singapore and they have tried a lot to reach out to the communities in an effective and meaningful way to address the rumblings on the ground.

    I urge the DAP, if not the BR to do this. Mr Lim, you have your ideals and I know you will works towards actualizing them. I don’t know the rest of the DAP members as well as others and I wish among the important ones would serving the people (whether they voted for you or not).

    The time of division is over. Elections is over. Now we need to work for the betterment of our constituency in a fair way.

    Time for showmanship too is over. It’s time for action, positive action.

    It’s time to cut the crap and catch the CRAB.

  260. #260 by ahluck on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:02 am

    i agree with RGRaj thats why i make alot of noise of Pas and Islamic. make noise now or never. once Pas take over and DAP leave Perak what happens to People voted for DAP?Conned. DAP the most vote ask Sultan to give to DAP.Sultan has the power. don’t be like a criminal in front of Sultan. Ampun Tuan Ku!

  261. #261 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:04 am

    DAP is all about opposition and has been in the opposition for far too long that it forgets it is no longer an opposition force. Old Geezer is right!

    It acts more like the vanquised rather than the victor.

    So time to wake up and smell the coffee – before it is too late.

  262. #262 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:04 am

    What’s ADUNS?

  263. #263 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:05 am

    “It’s time to cut the crap and catch the CRAB.”

    Catch the crab??? I don’t think you want to do that!

  264. #264 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:06 am

    Ahli Dewan Undangan Negri

  265. #265 by ChinNA on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:08 am

    I like to eat CRABs, the big ones…. :)

  266. #266 by malaysian_at_large on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:12 am

    I have tried to engage in conversation here in this blog, but find that my comments seem to be perpetually “awaiting moderation.” Why is that and is there a way to speed up the process?

  267. #267 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:15 am

    Yeah! But I assure the last you want to do with this crab is eat them!

  268. #268 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:16 am

    Quotations by the late JFK which apply to the DAP today in its relationship with PAS.

    “We need men who can dream of things that never were.”

    “The Chinese use two brush strokes to write the word ‘crisis.’ One brush stroke stands for danger; the other for opportunity. In a crisis, be aware of the danger – but recognize the opportunity.”.

    “Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let us never fear to negotiate.”

  269. #269 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:20 am

    Thanks Jeffrey. I would like to offer my comments/thoughts on your post:

    1) ….if the PAS MB, for example, suddenly decides to push for some medieval Islamic practice in the state….

    What are these medieval practices and which one has been implemented in PAS’ rule in Kelantan since 1990

    2) If neither could push the other out, then stay on in the gridlock and fight it out!

    We could have said: If neither could push the other out, then stay on in the gridlock and work it out! The human intelligence enable them to adapt.

    3) Wouldn’t that be a dereliction of duty to supporters and voters for DAP to walk out leaving PAS to carry on enjoying benefits of office when it is PAS, for example, that causes the first problem?

    If DAP walks out there will be no coalition government. This would also a dereliction of duty.

    4) The only good that could emanate from this erstwhile liaison and collaboration of expedience for now is that hopefully their collective victory in the last election will cause an implosion within the ruling coalition – which I believe is already beginning – and serve a wake up call for the BN and UMNO

    It is the people’s rejection of BN and NOT “this erstwhile liaison” that has given BN a wake up call. BN still has a fighting chance… if they are able to reform and do better than the coalition government, they could be back in the game. Now we have a CHOICE.

    5) We must recognise that what we so fervently want to believe (viability of PAS/DAP collaboration to replace BN whose very existence is disapproved by so many here) – to sustain our hopes and maintain our sanity – is one thing and what is the probable truth (that PAS would not change its agenda and will over time benefit more from such collaboration at DAP’s and Secular Malaysia’s expense), that in our moments of objectivity and clarity of mind, ought to be able to discern and recognise, is another thing.

    BELIEVE is the key word NOT “PROBABLE”. Therefore if we believe we can do it we will make NEW MALAYSIA a REALITY. FEAR of this PROBABLE will make us fail.

    6) The fact is the threat of Islamo-fascism is clear and present, and gaining grounds whether you want to admit it or not. It is gaining ground because its detractors are caught between the dilemma of either (1) tolerating the intolerable policies of the existing incumbent coalition or (2) support the party with the agenda of Islamo-fascism presently dressed in different and more moderate livery and dress for popular presentation, and many would predictably fall for the latter’s blandishment because it resonates with their hopes and aspirations and refuse to confront the unpleasant truth.

    We like to attach labels to things and Islamo-facism is one such labels. The truth is such labels are never perfect and has only a limited range of validity depending on who is making the observation. “Islamophobia” is another term that surfaced after 911. More and more new labels will be invented as times goes by thus demonstrating the inadequacies of such labels (or system of symbols). We do NOT base our BELIEVE on an inadequate system of labels.

    7) The fact that we have no choice but to go along with (2) is testimony of our pathetic predicament.

    Malaysians have a choice. They have chosen the path to a NEW MALAYSIA! They BELIEVE.

  270. #270 by HJ Angus on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:35 am

    Indeed we are now in unchartered waters.
    Even the BN has trouble trying to install MBs!

    But I think it is good for us to go further into unchartered waters and discover more freedom.

    The PAS/DAP conflict/resolution of conflict will take years to sort out as neither party is big enough to rule the nation and I think PKR is in a better position to grow.

    Who knows how it will work out?

  271. #271 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:36 am

    Old Geezer,
    You said:
    In the whole fiasco, DAP did a bad job in communicating with the people by not explaining the problem and the agreed solution. Malaysians, and Perakians in particular, only get bits and pieces from the media.

    They are all “kiasi” now-lah. Didn’t you just witness LKS seeing stars after his post concerning the DAPs CEC position on the MB from PAS?

    But I believe that they are all working on this explanation process quietly. Why do you think LKS can come up with this post that we are commenting on right now. ;)

    LKS is no fool. He has felt the ground and conclude that it is safe to take this first step into the “Uncharted Political Waters”.

  272. #272 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:37 am

    Racism is another form of discrimination. It does not help a country by being racist as this will shun the talented ones which the country is in dire straits of need.

    Australia had once upon a time been known or talked about to be “racist”. Because of globalization, it cannot ignore the talent that many Asians have. You can now see that there are a lot more professionals of Asian background being hired especially in the finance sector that was previously dominated by Caucasians. And there are quite a number of Asians holding top posts in the financial sectors.

    THe Coalition (DAP+PKR+PAS) was voted by the people of Malaysia I believe (this may not represent everyone’s thoughts) to fight against Racism, Discrimination, Corruption which have for so many years been the main obstacles preventing Malaysia from progressing and achieving the status or standard that its neighbouring countries have achieved – Singapore for example.

    Malaysia has progressed in building a city like KL and many townships but it is viewed to rank behind its neighbours like Singapore in education, health, social, political and financial systems after more than 50 years. This is part of the many reasons why many Malaysians had left the country and I believe will continue to do so whilst, at the same time, Malaysia will continue to experience “brain drain” if people does not wake up and refuse to accept the truth.

    The Country’s Assets is the People.

  273. #273 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:39 am

    Sorry, what’s Kiasi?

  274. #274 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:41 am

    Ah Pek says:
    Another thing, Jeffrey how is it possible that Turkey is still a secular state in spite of the fact that the majority in Turkey is Muslim.Do you know?

    Yeah! Do you know? ;)

  275. #275 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:43 am

    Translated literally “Kiasi” means afraid to die (Hokkien Dialect). Used in this context, they are now very cautious….naturally. ;)

  276. #276 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:45 am

    Thanks lkt-56. :) Unfortunately dunno HOkkien…..

  277. #277 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:46 am

    For Malaysia to follow Turkey, Islam has to cease being the official religion. Malays must be allowed to pursue a religion of their choice. Polygamy will have to be banned along with the other forms of discrimination against women. The traditional headgear i.e. the songkok favored by Malays as Muslims will have to be banned. Rest day will have to be changed from Friday to Sunday for all states. All Malays must be required to adopt a last name.

    Do you see that happening in Malaysia – say one hundred years from now??

  278. #278 by liveleas on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:48 am

    I am so sick and tired of the infighting among yourself. Now Selangor is also doing it? Okay forget it. You guys should just stay as opposition then.

  279. #279 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:50 am

    cwk100 Says:
    Today at 02: 51.16 (5 hours ago)

    Uncle Lim, the reactions which you got from all those wet markets don’t represents all those who voted for DAP in Perak. Those are aunties and uncles who are less informed.

    Hello! you obviously do not subscribe to respect for the elders. Without aunties and uncles you won’t be here… let alone be here to announce to the whole of Malaysia that you are more informed than aunties and uncles. ;)

  280. #280 by RGRaj on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:50 am

    Turkey is secular in name only. In reality it’s far from being one. The secularity badge is there so that they could gain entry into EURO.

  281. #281 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:52 am

    My thoughts: I believe people has the right to live the way they are. Then it will be pure boredom not to have different cultures and people. The people are the ones who make a country colorful. Leave the Malays with their Songkok. Would any CHinese or Indians like the idea of being banned from doing things which are customary to their religion or race?

  282. #282 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 9:12 am

    HB Lim said:
    …though some may be sceptical about it or laughing at me for being naive…

    Hi HB,
    After I have read your post… I said to myself: “WOW!”. :D
    Do not worry about being laughed at… That you are being laughed at show that you are more sane…

  283. #283 by kkchong on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 9:18 am

    YB LKS
    I am a very easy emotional sentimental chinese, I cried the whole night on the 08/03/2008 because the tsunami in PENANG, PERAK, SELANGOR, KL AND KEDAH.
    I strongly believed DAP and Anwar PKR and PAS can work together for the good future of Malaysian Malaysia.
    CRY for Malaysian Malaysia

  284. #284 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 9:37 am

    cwk100 Says:
    Today at 02: 51.16 (5 hours ago)

    Uncle Lim, the reactions which you got from all those wet markets don’t represents all those who voted for DAP in Perak. Those are aunties and uncles who are less informed.

    I would like to respond to this:

    I always believe that a good financial analyst is one that does not work base solely on the “paper” but to balance out by going into the market to meet the people and learn from the people.

    I believe this concept applies to a government. To be able to run its country well, the government via its representatives will need to know the people’s wants and needs.

    How is the best way to get first hand knowledge – by mingling and getting to know the people and not sit in the office and quietly work on piles and piles of papers and for some, the slackers or bums, had in the past chosen and will continue to choose to enjoy a cigar or two instead.

    True, some of the people are less informed. Herein, this is one of the many good reasons why the country’s information and education system needs to be improved. Also, to be able to make good judgement and to utilize this important (“aunties and uncles”) information the best possible way, experienced and educated government representatives is required. Ultimately, this falls back to why the Country needs experienced and qualilfied people or government to run the country to the best it can (not perfect), but the Country does not need and will not need an inefficient government who creates and relies on laws and regulations to protect its interest.

    I believe Mr. LIm’s effort in meeting the people in the markets is a good way to hear and see the real thing. In history: Emperor Kang Xi in China, took the liberty to disguise himself as a commoner to mingle amongst the common folks. I believe that serves a good purpose.

  285. #285 by alancheah on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 9:46 am

    I truely hope that PAS won’s introduce any Islamic rules or policies in Perak. If they really do that, next election, I will sure NOT vote for them, and I will ask all my friends and family members NOT to vote for them as well!

    Don’t play-play, PAS. Do the RIGHT thing RIGHT in Perak.
    We DON’T NEED any Islamic policies there. OK!

  286. #286 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 9:47 am

    I would like to correct myself in saying that the country’s information and education system needs improvement on. In this context I would want to stress on the point that it is the country’s media and information system that needs a revamp and improvement on, apart from the education system. I believe these “aunties and uncles” have years of experience and wisdom and are more pragmatic than perhaps some many well-educated (ie. with a degree or paper) ones.

  287. #287 by alancheah on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 9:52 am

    Do more good jobs and show BN that you all can
    carry out all the things for rakyat. Let rakyat there
    say, “We LOVE this new state government”. Then, BN fellows
    will keep quiet!

  288. #288 by Cinapek on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 10:04 am

    “…DAP was unfairly and falsely accused of being anti-Malay and anti-Islam when DAP had reservations about a PAS Mentri Besar for the Perak DAP-PKR-PAS coalition government – which was completely baseless as DAP had supported a Malay State Assemblyman from PKR to be the Perak MB…”

    Dear YB,

    I saw your viewpoint clearly and in fact defended your same position above in Aisehman’s blog (your blog was not accessible on that day).

    But I disagree with your timing and the manner the press release was handled. The manner it was released and its timing gave the BN fodder to attack you and your coalition further and also created confusion and disappointment in the minds of voters who voted your coalition in. There were feelings of betrayal but fortunately your immediate clarification mitigated the damage. In the confusing aftermath of the elections and the totally unexpected results, it is understandable that confusion reigns but there is no reason for your state leaders in Perak to openly show defiance of your statement, however wrong it may be. They could also have said they will clarify with your instead of the defiant bravado in relying to press questions.

    All these are lessons learnt and I hope that the DAP will learn from them and improve the party communications going forward because failure is NOT an option as the people who put you there would also be the same people who will put you out if you messed up the opportunity.

  289. #289 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 10:13 am

    //Another thing, Jeffrey how is it possible that Turkey is still a secular state in spite of the fact that the majority in Turkey is Muslim.Do you know?// – AhPek & Ikt-56

    I believe it is due to vision of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, dubbed father of modern Turkey who when he became president in 1923 ushered in political and social reforms along lines of liberal democracies of the West, based the Turkish Constitution on secular premises and taught majority Turkish muslims the importance of separating religion from government/state .

  290. #290 by Old Geezer on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 10:45 am

    “..but there is no reason for your state leaders in Perak to openly show defiance of your statement, however wrong it may be.” Cinapek

    I am sorry but I disagree with that.
    The state leaders in Perak mitigated the damage done by LKS’s statement, even though the damage is irrepairable, as seen from the reactions from the Malays. Lim Guan Eng also countermanded LKS’s order by asking all ADUNs to attend. Once the Regent made the announcement, it was already to late to change anything. The Sultan and Regent must not be seen to be fickle-minded.
    LKS should just have kept quiet and deal with the Perak state leaders later.
    I think the DAP should learn to look at their new role from a different perspective, i.e. from the govt point of view.
    In a more abstract way of speaking, the govt at the state level is actually administering the state for the Sultan.
    If you listen to the Royal address in the opening of Parliament whether in Britain, Malaysia, or elsewhere, the Monarch always refer to his/her govt, eg Queen Elizabeth would say my govt would do this and that, etc.
    In the olden time, to go against the wishes of the monarchy was considered treason.
    Translating to modern time in Malaysia, DAP/PKR/PAS ADUNs in Perak and Selangor are now the Sultan’s govt in the respective state.
    So learn to respect the wishes of the Royalty and learn the royal protocol.

  291. #291 by JMAnywhere on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 10:47 am

    It seems more like DAP internal communication issues rather than an issues with PAS, ???????you should have settled this issue internally rather than publicly.

    I think this matter should be closed after the apologies is made. You should really stop talking about this anymore in your blog or public, or it will just give people the impression that your apologies is not sincere.

    DAP spent 40 yrs to get the mandate from people, please don’t ruin it, ??????

  292. #292 by JMAnywhere on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 10:55 am

    “…DAP was unfairly and falsely accused of being anti-Malay and anti-Islam when DAP had reservations about a PAS Mentri Besar for the Perak DAP-PKR-PAS coalition government – which was completely baseless as DAP had supported a Malay State Assemblyman from PKR to be the Perak MB.“”

    This is where the confusion come from uncle Lim, the 3 parties in perak issue a statement to say that they agreed to support the MB selected by the sultan, you statements not only slap the DAP perak state leaders, and also DAP as a whole.

    wake up uncle Lim!!!

  293. #293 by chong on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 11:30 am

    YB Lim

    In order to neutralize the fear among non-muslim citizens, I would suggest you or your collegues to appoint a well known Christian Pastor or Cathotic Father to be one of the Senator and Exco to check balance the PAS MB.

    Coming next GE, the remaining 28 seats of the BN is very crucial, with power and resources in hands, PAS might has hidden agenda to win these seats to countinue his state Islamization legally and PKR wants this fat cake also to fulfill there reformation. For DAP, if you do well, may be 18 +1, if not, soyonaralah. So, for long term, DAP can’t do much here only if Malays support your integrity and Malaysian Malaysia vision that benefits them and all. So, show them that you can help the Malays, please.

  294. #294 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 11:34 am

    Hello HB Lim, thanks for your posting.

    I agree with:

    (1) your “incontrovertible Malaysian facts” 1 to 8; and
    (2) your statement – “since it is a fact that we have to live with Islam and Muslims in Malaysia, there is no way that we can close our minds to, stay away from and object to them”;
    (3) your statement about importance of people living together “discarding the fear and moving towards each other” – provided it takes 2 to tango and you have thing whether there is evidence elsewhere that this can be done between those who espouse “Political Islam” of PAS’s brand and kafirs/infidels.

    The rest about the moral of what you said “learn, discuss, understand Islam and then march on with everyone especially the Malays and Muslims towards Truth and Justice, Love, Peace and Joy. Too idealistic?” the question to ask is : whether with best of intentions of both side, can this be bridged: (a) our concept of separation of State from religion and sovereignty of man made parliamentary laws from the other side (PAS) the non separation of state from religion, non separation of private morality from public morality (because of “adin” ie all embraciveness of religion in all aspects of life) and sovereignty of God’s laws than man’s laws???

    If you think it is not possible to bridge, then what you said in last para of posting will be idealistic in the sense of it giving hope but will not happen. Is there an illustration anywhere else in the world that it can happen? Don’t quote Turkey because first president kemal ataturk made the constityution secular in 1923 when she turned republic.

  295. #295 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 11:35 am

    Old Geezer Says:
    Today at 07: 51.36 (3 hours ago)
    YB Lim,
    Over at Teng Chang Khim’s blog he mentioned
    “Thirdly, the issue of non Malays wearing songkok is a separate issue …. It has been a party policy and needs to be deliberated in view of the new development.”.
    Is it official DAP policy not to wear a songkok before the Sultan?
    No wonder I received so much flak for saying that DAP has to follow royal protocol even if it means wearing a songkok.
    (According to Raja Petra, songkok for man is part of royal protocol.)

    Unfortunately even the songkok becomes a symbol of something it is not intended to be… “dominance of one race over another”. Wear it you will be ostracized, don’t wear it you will also be ostracized.

    If it is required by Royal protocol, I would wear it out of respect to the sultan. If not leave it to the individual for at the end of the day it is his ability to deliver that matters…

  296. #296 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 11:36 am

    Ooops error – “….2 to tango and you have THINK whether there is evidence”

  297. #297 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:02 pm

    I will respond to your post if you do not mind.

    You said:
    The rest about the moral of what you said “learn, discuss, understand Islam and then march on with everyone especially the Malays and Muslims towards Truth and Justice, Love, Peace and Joy. Too idealistic?” the question to ask is : whether with best of intentions of both side, can this be bridged: (a) our concept of separation of State from religion and sovereignty of man made parliamentary laws from the other side (PAS) the non separation of state from religion, non separation of private morality from public morality (because of “adin” ie all embraciveness of religion in all aspects of life) and sovereignty of God’s laws than man’s laws???

    If you think it is not possible to bridge, then what you said in last para of posting will be idealistic in the sense of it giving hope but will not happen. Is there an illustration anywhere else in the world that it can happen? Don’t quote Turkey because first president kemal ataturk made the constityution secular in 1923 when she turned republic.

    In “Uncharted Politcal Waters” we cannot predict the outcome. Do we position ourselves to travel the “Uncharted Political Waters” or do we stay static, paralysed by our fear of the “Probable?” In this dualistic world we have two choices:
    1. Be Positve
    2. Be Negative
    Looking at the posts on this blog, it appears to me the Positive Energies are stronger at the moment. Therefore lets us march on with our BELIEVE!


  298. #298 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:03 pm

    Phew, everyone’s back……I was beginning to feel that the Unberable IT, by being a pest to bloggers, is succeeding in achieving perhaps one of his objectives to keep bloggers away from the Lim Kit Siang blogs.

  299. #299 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:05 pm

    Unberable should be Unbearable. Spelling error

  300. #300 by lopez on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:07 pm

    Action = Reaction, Thanks to Issac Newton

    Rational minds respond rationally, it is natural and universal law
    A horse would not trample his rider on purpose when his rider fell, it is natural even in animals.
    Likewise it is natural to responds irrationally to an irrational offensive and intentions.
    We respond naturally on the defensive, nobody know who is more mighty,,,,5000 years of (warring) cultures has created the chinese.

    If you disrespect other people cultures, belittle them, curse them , deny them of their traditions, stop them of the customs, prevent them from passing and continuing their cultures, traditions, customs , habits and even likes and dislikes .
    YOU are being ARROGANT, Trying to create a new breed of people is dangerous.
    In the first place you are not PErfect, dont try to be, you do not have the expert knowledge ask adolf hitler when you see him.

    Pampered child cries when he cant reach for his milk bottle.
    We can now see who are these pampered child even though they have big bungalows, BMWs, MERZ and blazer jackets and ties, goes to philharmonic orchestras, F1 races, Golfing , saunas , night clubbing, these are the scum of them.
    but they are the blind ones, handicapped ones who scavenge at their doorsteps, breadcrumps, agents, front man, who now realised they can t reach their milk bottles will suffer most and they cannot look back because of their arrogance and previous actions, name throwing, poking backs, shoving and pushing others, …..maybe their mommies can help them.

    Lets have a fair government for all not one the one impressed upon us by the Liars of BN.

  301. #301 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:07 pm

    The most unbearable thing that Unbearable IT has done was to post exactly the same material on different title blogs of the day and will continue to do so……perhaps the Unbearable IT is awfully good at multi-tasking with his Octopus hands…..ha ha :)

  302. #302 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:20 pm

    jetaime.f Says:
    Today at 12: 07.25 (12 minutes ago)

    The most unbearable thing that Unbearable IT has done was to post exactly the same material on different title blogs of the day and will continue to do so……perhaps the Unbearable IT is awfully good at multi-tasking with his Octopus hands…..ha ha :)

    No-lah… he just copy and paste. ;)

  303. #303 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:21 pm

    Oops… should be “IT just copy and paste”. :D

  304. #304 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:24 pm

    lkt-56 : always jovial and cheerful to help keep the blogs lively….well done :)

  305. #305 by Wisdom above on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:29 pm

    To, YB LGE, CM Penang,

    Talk less, focus & run the State Government.

    ‘…I would also like to take this opportunity to apologise for the sloppy editing in the news story of March 12, 2008,……

    As we move forward, I would like to ensure you of BERNAMA’s co-operation for your newly-formed government and shall always endeavour to help you promote the well-being of Penang and its people.

    Yours sincerely,


    Bernama “apologise for the sloppy editing “.

    Before election, after election, still sloppy editing ?

    > repeat for reflection..

    1)”Gerakan appeals to the federal government to continue and to expedite the implementation of these projects,” he said.

    2)Koh also adviced the DAP leaders of the state government to avoid engaging in political rhetorics.

    3)”They should adopt a constructive and positive approach to sustain inter-ethnic harmony and social stability,” he said.

    4)He urged them to take steps to provide a conducive environment to ensure the smooth implementation of all projects for continued economic development for Penang.

    > I think CM YB LGE should learn some diplomacy from ex-CM Tan Sri Dr Koh Tsu Koon.

    CM YB LGE should use a positive approach to build a Dynamic Penang for all.

    Syabas, Barisan Rakyat.

    Peace & common sense will prevail.

    Syabas. Barisan Rakyat.

  306. #306 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:38 pm


    Thanks. From your comments, “In this dualistic world we have two choices:1. Be Positive 2. Be Negative. Looking at the posts on this blog, it appears to me the Positive Energies are stronger at the moment. Therefore lets us march on with our BELIEVE!”.

    Now, I have no quarrel with Dale Carnegies’s mode of “positive thinking” and all arguments in this blog about being “constructive” given existing realities over “wet blanket” negative approach dousing hopes.

    But you must agree we’re talking about “hopes” here that is quite different from the track of objective reasoning regardless of feelings that Lee Wang Yen has taken.

    I have also no problems with “hopes” but the caveat here that we – and DAP – have to weigh and balance and guard against is whether there is real and iminent COST in pursuing hope, cost in the sense of whether in the course of pursuing hopes, and giving way to PAS’s demands every now or then (or if not take the unpalatable choice of leaving the state govt), we will strengthen PAS and help accelerate its establishment of theocracy thereby undermining our own agenda of better governance within secular framework (if not secular “leanings”) as contemplated by our Federal Constitution. If the cost is imaginary or minimal, fine but if it is real and probable given the cultural and legal milieu here that favours PAS eg one cannot question religious issues or interpretation, laws that provide that MB has to be a person of Malay descent, and rules that say you can’t evict an MB even if you are majority unless there is unanimity by all in state Exco?

    We’re talking of the entire framework of cultural and legal infrastructure here very well summarised by HB Lim earlier. Now imagine DAP being engaged, whether at State or National level with PAS, in working together to resolve mutual differences and PAS is recalcitrant in not moderating its extreme position. Now within the earlier stated framework, is there a level playing field for DAP to prevail over PAS or won’t it be likely the other way in terms of balance of power??? :)

  307. #307 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:45 pm

    Even our esteemed Rulers, by constitutional defination in our Federal Constitution they are upholders and protector of religion. Would they side secular approaches of DAP (or likely PAS) when it comes to the crunch? That’s another part of the cultural, legal and constitutional milieu and framework within which the DAP has to work and argue with PAS over differences that we are talking about. Is there a level playing field that you will prevail over the other and not the other way around?

  308. #308 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:48 pm

    I mean we’re talking about realistic projections here of probable scenarios that may take place and not just hopes.

  309. #309 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 12:50 pm

    Cross the bridge when it’s here (the votes by the people of Malaysia is a reality, and “has been done”)…..not guilty until proven….in the mean time, stay positive, help to come up with constructive solutions and suggestions, whilst detection and monitoring of misbehaviour may help…..Sultan chose the MB not DAP. DAP, PKR reacted the normal human way anyone would……

  310. #310 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:08 pm

    jetaime.f , this “Cross the bridge when it’s here” is not a good approach. For example, DAP had never in wildest dreams thought of the political Tsunami; it fielded no Malay candidate for state seats in Perak; it did not look at the State Constitution whether the MB could be a non Malay. Then suddenly the victory. One reached the river, there was no bridge, and in the confusion, PAS took advantage to cross the river first to have its representative fill the all important MB’s position even if by democratic convention it should be filled by DAP that won the most state seats. :)

  311. #311 by whitecoffee on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:12 pm

    Now there seems to be a shift in trend. The monarchs are suddenly coming back into politics. Why? During Mahathir’s time, it was different. What more do we have in store? The sudden ‘interest’ by the Rulers could mean the rakyat will now have more contact with the palace. Or will the Rulers now show their presence more often with the rakyat? Irrespective of racial barriers?. Our Rulers are learned people.
    Whatever it is, RESPECT MUST BE EARNED, not demanded.
    Good luck Malaysians !!! Good luck negara ku !!!

  312. #312 by ahjeff on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:16 pm

    i am a lay man and i would just like to say my point of view with regards to this issue of having a PAS MB. What is wrong with that? It is time we look beyond race and religion and stand as one PEOPLE, and one NATION. I voted for BR (in this case it was DAP. it could have very well been PKR or PAS and i would have still voted against BN). All i want is for us to be one people, no more divided along racial or religious lines. Can we not genuinely just treat each other as human beings? and if this is not possible, trust that come the next GE, I would have no choice but to vote BN as much as i dislike that option.

  313. #313 by Wisdom above on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:17 pm

    Syabas to the new Perak State Government.

    Think as a State Government.

    ..What I voted for is Barisan Rakyat.

    ..I can only use Divine Intervention to describe the unfolding of events.

    ..The collective voices of everybody has to continue to demand rightness.

    Yes , you are right.

    I also cast my ballot for Barisan Rakyat.

    Syabas. Barisan Rakyat.

  314. #314 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:22 pm

    I understand that the Sultan has the power to appoint the MB of his choice (unless the news is lying), how did Pas manage or have the power to fill all MB’s positions that it perhaps want? “Cross the bridge when it’s here” can be a good approach and can be a bad approach depending on how one use it in certain situations. Would you think that it is the best approach now to tip the ship and to create havoc within the coalition DAP+PKR+PAS because of people’s speculation and fear that PAS may eventually overrule its team?

  315. #315 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:23 pm

    Let us look at PAS and DAP as PAS=Positve; DAP=Negative (wait… do not get emotional over the equation) ;)

    The interplay of these two energies is governed by an unseen law, TAO. Neither can absolutely overcome the other.

    Do not be shackled by FEAR for you are speaking out of fear… Let me share this educational story with everyone here:

    “There was a man being chased down a trail through the jungle by a man-eathing tiger. He ran as fast as he could, but the tiger was running faster. Still he ran, hoping for a tree he could climb in time, a house to take shelter in, a warrior to defend him, something, anything to save him from the tiger. He ran around a bend in the trail… and found himself at the edge of a dropoff that was a hundred feet straight down. He was doomed! But then he saw a thick vine hanging down over the edge of the dropoff! He grabbed it and climbed down. The tiger couldn’t get him. He climbed and he climbed, but the vine got thin and weak and he was still too far above the ground to survive a fall. He looked up, and saw the tiger looking down at him, but he knew, if he just hung on long enough, the tiger would go away.

    He thought of jumping down to escape the fearsome tiger above and looked down… to his horror he saw another tiger below snarling at him. Just when he thought that the situation could not get any worse…. he heard a nibble, nibble, nibble noise and saw, way up in reach of the tiger’s swatting paw, two mice… one white, one black…. nibbling on the vine, chewing through it….

    The man looked in all directions for a rock to stand on or a ledge to cling to or a trail slanting down. He looked and he looked as the vine creaked under his weight and the tiger growled above him . And then, off to one side, in easy reach, he saw a fragrant, ripe berry hanging from a plant rooted in the cliff. He picked it and ate it. It was the best berry he had ever tasted.

    The end.

    The above story represents our state of mind:
    1) Our attachment to the past (unable to let go) and being haunted by it as well (the tiger is hungry and wanting to eat us)… represented by the tiger above
    2) Our fear of death: represented by the tiger below the dropoff
    3) Our perception of the time (we always say life is too short)…. represented by the two mice: the white one – day, the black one – night
    4) The mice nibbling away on the vine depicts our perception of never being fulfilled with the present and always (day and night) looking either into the past or the future in search of this elusive state of emotional well being called “happiness”.
    5) The vine represents our journey (life) through this realm called “world” which is destined to end

    and finally for those who finally understand:there is another state of mind represented by the sweet strawberry: TRUE HAPPINESS

    When we are able to taste the sweet strawberry that has always been within reach and right in front of us, we have found TAO. Eckhard Tolle calls this state of mind: “being PRESENT”. When we are PRESENT, there is no past, no future, and no perception of time… only NOW.


    NOW there is a paradigm switch to NEW MALAYSIA.
    NOW the Malay, Chinese, Indian, and other races have voted for NEW MALAYSIA.

  316. #316 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:29 pm

    I believe as an Asian and more so as a Malaysian who grows up in Asia particularly in Malaysia which is a multi-racial country for many years, should be more open-minded and be able to control this fear of other races.

  317. #317 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:38 pm

    Would it not be better for all common folks to help the coalition (DAP+PKR+PAS) to start rebuilding and strengthening the ties amongst the different races now, (given their hands are full now), instead of continuing to instil fear amongst the bloggers and the people of Malaysia or even taking the approach of “tipping the ship”.

    After all, Malaysia does not belong to the Coalition (DAP+PKR+PAS) to work alone. It needs the help of every single Malaysian including the BN to ensure the wants and needs of people of Malaysia is realized. Unfortunately, BN is still in hot pursuit of their own agendas and interests.

  318. #318 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:46 pm

    You are your own enemy……everyone has a choice…..the people of Malaysia chose for a change via their votes and should not just stop there. Instead should help the coaltion (DAP+PKR+PAS) to realize everyone’s wants ie. to help Malaysia as a nation. Wake up!!…..we are honestly so many years away from the developed nations….Singapore Government has bought over Queen Victoria Building in Sydney from Ipoh Limited and has set up one of the successful telecommunication companies in Australia. Chinese Government is investing and buying up oil and steel companies in other countries. What has Malaysian Government done to generate income for its people? Or more like when will the leakage and wastage of funds will stop?

  319. #319 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:48 pm

    stop I mean, not will stop

  320. #320 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:53 pm

    Thanks. jetaime,
    I really appreciate that! ;)

  321. #321 by cto on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 1:55 pm

    Old Geezer Says:

    Today at 07: 20.52 (6 hours ago)
    Dawsheng, are you Teng Chang Khim?

    I hope not. Cos’ two weeks ago, just prior to the election, this is what Dawsheng wrote in another thread found in this blog (see below). Clearly, he was calling chinese voters to vote for the opposition which includes PAS.

    Is this what they might call divide and conquer strategy? Or is this dishonesty, plain and simple?


    dawsheng Says:

    March 7th, 2008 (2 weeks ago) at 15: 49.35
    “Abdullah referred to the 1990 general election when the MCA was “paralysed”, saying: “When the MCA lost its voice, the people felt it. I hope they will think very carefully. This is important in the interests of all races.”

    I do not want any political party boasting that they are bodyguards to the Chinese, where is Ong Ka Ting when a Chinese woman is being raped and murdered? All that we know after giving MCA our solid supports since the independent, they are only good at making sextapes. What do we get? What is happening inside MCA? Malaysian Chinese must tell MCA to go to hell, we no longer can accept morally unfit leaders to lead the Chinese community. If we let this continues, what will ordinary Malays and Indians will say about us, if MCA sucks other people will say the Chinse sucks too as MCA said they represent the Chinese. Malaysian Chinese must reject racism politics for the interest of all Malaysians, to do that they must vote for the opposition.

  322. #322 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:01 pm

    lkt-56: If only this can be made known to the people of Malaysia and hopefully make them see and realize where the country is heading to. Perhaps, when the people starts to realize of what’s happening in the real world out there, hopefully they may stop behaving the way they are, BN will stop its attacks and funny behaviours, and help quell instead of fuelling the negatives that’s been spreading within the country. This may help relieve the Coalition (DAP+PKR+PAS)’s job and allow them to focus more of their energy and LIMITED resources on rebuilding the economy.

  323. #323 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:12 pm

    developing not developed nations….

  324. #324 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:17 pm

    ///Would you think that it is the best approach now to tip the ship and to create havoc within the coalition DAP+PKR+PAS?///-jetaime.f

    How do you mean “create havoc” – leave Perak state govt?

    Of course not. I have already said earlier, why can’t PAS rep leave if he forces extreme measures? Can’t get him to leave, we stay, dig in to fight for what is fair for multiracial Malaysia. To leave – is another form of yielding, not fair to DAP’s supporters in Perak. To stay and not fight for “no further Islamisation policies are introduced to the detriment of the constitutional rights of all Malaysians, regardless of race or religion” is also yielding, not fair to multi racial Malaysia.

    Mistakes have been made in Perak which the DAP has to live by and learn from it to be vigilant and see how working together with Anwar of PKR they could together contain if not push back PAS’s influence. The point of discussions here is to be vigilant and never underestimate the PAS’s unchanging agenda and the favourable factors helping it to push it to fruition.

    This has nothing to do with what jetaime.f said about open-minded and be able to control this fear of other races. There is no fear of any other race. There is only fear of this particular brand of Political Islam of Wahibbi origins that pushes for revival of what it believers believe was the original Islamic state. There is basis for such fear because of its gaining acceptance and revival in large swathes of Middle East, Africa (after Iranian Revolution). We have seen what this ideology has done and could do.

    If we fall for its blandishments or are deceived by its Sun Tzu’s Art of War’s changes of faces and tactics to suit advantage of terrain of engagement, we’re done for. The parable by lkt-56 would, to me, suggest the high chances of success of PAS’s manoeuverings. The man in the cliff caught between the tiger on top and rocks below would savour the fragrant, ripe berry hanging from a plant rooted in the cliff (representing PAS’s olive branch of putting on a “moderate face” of not just yet insisting Hudud or clamouring for immediate establishment of Islamic State), not at least until it secures more prescence in othe other states in the next elections with DAP’s and PKR’s assistance and BN’s default….”It was the best berry he had ever tasted” is because we are in such a hopeless state having to put up with conditions with BN that even the Devil himself would be Ok company if He hides his horns and put on some brighter clothings! However the “two mice… one white, one black…. nibbling on the vine, chewing through it….” is what our fate would be as regards aspirations for maintenance of secular constitution, separation of law from government, sovereignty of parliamentary system based on laws made by people’s representatives rather than laws edicted by the Almighty.

  325. #325 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:21 pm

    A positive proposal – rather than bowing down to Islamisation that gradually transforms our nation, we should defend its original secular, pluralist democracy and promote its virtue to our Muslim friends.

    Another excerpt from Dr. Ng Kam Weng, Pluralist Democracy or Islamic State?

    ‘Some Muslims who are sympathetic towards a progressive and tolerant form of Islam may nonetheless feel obliged to back away from talk of a secular state because of the misconception that to support for a secular state is to betray one’s religion. Indeed, now and then, some Muslim activists accuse those who argue against the establishment of the Islamic state of insulting Islam. In the process, emotional rhetoric ends up forestalling efforts to develop an objective and rational approach towards resolving differences. The status of Malaysia as a secular state in our Constitution cannot be gainsaid. But we should move away from forcing the issue of having to choose either the secular state or the Islamic state. Instead, we should focus instead on the task of building a strong pluralistic democracy in order to avoid unnecessary emotional reactions.

    The goal of strengthening pluralist democracy is a positive agenda. Acceptance of plurality is a vital prerequisite for building overlapping consensus among citizens with different ideologies and religious beliefs. In this respect, the goal of a pluralist democracy is to provide manageable platforms for the resolution of differences among citizens. That being the case, there should be a separation between religious and state institutions to ensure that national consensus is one that emerges from grass root interaction rather than one that is imposed from above.

    Fundamental to pluralist democracy is the recognition of equal rights of persons regardless of their religious affiliation and their unrestricted participation in civil society. This is based on three democratic principles. First, the libertarian principle or principle of toleration. The state simply recognizes the inalienable right of citizens to practise – or even not to practise – religion. It is therefore inappropriate for state institutions to interfere with this religious freedom.

    Second, the equalitarian principle requires impartiality of the state in not favouring a particular religion to the extent that it discriminates against other religions. This principle also demands that public offices should not be restricted exclusively to citizens professing a certain religious affiliation. This principle accepts that there can be different degrees of establishment of religion. Still, it deems the establishment of religion as, in general, an obstacle towards the maturing of democracy.

    Third, the neutrality principle says that the state should not favour citizens simply because they are religious. The state must maintain impartiality between the religious and the non-religious, or between citizens of different religions. A pluralist democracy promotes a citizenry that is capable of transcending partisan politics and of exercising rounded judgment and careful weighing of ambiguous alternatives.

    Hopefully, the above discussion will help dispel the common and unfair stereotyping of pluralist democracy – or even the secular state – as one that is inherently against religion. More importantly, the call for a pluralist democracy springs from a recognition of the fundamental concrete realities of Malaysian society. Furthermore, only a pluralist democracy is able to mobilize the resources from all citizens to ensure that our nation is able to cope with the unrelenting onslaught of globalization.’

  326. #326 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:27 pm

    Restricting the Perak MB post to Muslim Malays goes against the egalitarian principle of pluralist democracy, according to which there must be ‘impartiality of the state in not favouring a particular religion to the extent that it discriminates against other religions. This principle also demands that public offices should not be restricted exclusively to citizens professing a certain religious affiliation.’ (Ng Kam Weng, Pluralist Democracy or Islamic States)

    Parties that fight for justice, equality (KEADILAN) and pluralist democracy (DEMOCRATIC ACTION party) should not accept it.

  327. #327 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:38 pm

    Aw come on….. Lee Wang Yen give them a chance pleeeease. They have not even started working… Just sit back, relax and watch the interplay of the ying and yang energies.

    If you are so anxious to see the future the closest you can get is to seek the counsel of “Yi Jing” The book of change and see the wisdom it can give you. ;)

    The future is NOW.

  328. #328 by izrafeil on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:41 pm

    Uncle Lim,
    DAP-PKR-PAS pact has my support, pls hantam the corruption, abuse of power, nepotism, kronyism … clean up the gomen cukup2,

  329. #329 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:43 pm

    “Tofu” is nutritious and is good for health, but only the strong and good tofus is good for health and tastes, not the rotten tofus.

  330. #330 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:44 pm

    Here we go again……tsk tsk tsk…….blimey

  331. #331 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 2:47 pm

    Hmmm….FLEAS on the loose…… ha ha ha :)

  332. #332 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:00 pm

    Copy and paste from Malaysia Today:

    Razaleigh move against Prime Minister?
    Posted by kasee
    Saturday, 15 March 2008

    Razaleigh seen as man who can rally Chinese, Malay ground

    KUALA LUMPUR, March 15 – Tengku Razaleigh Hamzah has fired a broadside against Umno president Abdullah Ahmad Badawi , writing a letter to all 193 party division chiefs calling for a special meeting to discuss the reverses suffered at the polls.

    Ku Li, as Razaleigh is known in the party, is viewed by some of Abdullah’s critics as someone who can unite the party and reach out to Chinese and Indians.

    His letter will add further pressure on Abdullah who is being blamed for Barisan Nasional’s lacklustre performance in Election 2008, and could cause a split in a party that is struggling to come to terms with the loss of 5 states.

    His letter reached the division heads yesterday and was measured in its tone. The elder statesman of Umno said that the recent election results was not only surprising, but frightening.

    He wrote: “In the first general election in 1955, Umno controlled two-thirds seats in Parliament. Today, we are a minority voice in Parliament. At the federal level, Umno is no longer a strong political power. I nearly shed tears thinking about this scenario.

    “We should not point fingers at anyone and absolve ourselves. In fact, we should have not allowed the leadership to make the mistake before it happened.‘’

    Ku Li urged party members to call a meeting on May 11 to discuss the election results and the future of Malays.
    “I’m suggesting this date because it is the anniversary of (the founding of) Umno,” he wrote.

    “We must find out why Chinese and Indian voters rejected MCA and MIC candidates. Why were incumbent Umno candidates defeated by PKR and PAS candidates? We must find out why… Otherwise at the next election, if we don’t change our policies, culture and morale in BN and Umno and change radically, BN and Umno will not rule again.

    “PKR-DAP-PAS will form the federal government, the PM may be from PKR and the DPM may be from the DAP… Umno will not be able to represent the voice of Malays again, ‘’ he wrote.

    His letter sketched the worst case scenario for Umno, appealing to the party’s sense of insecurity over its place in Malaysian politics.

    His letter and move to get a special assembly organised will scuttle efforts by the Umno leadership to put off any meeting till the end of the year.

    It will also spark a debate within the low reaches of Umno, where there is confusion over the election results. It is difficult for Abdullah to say no to a demand from the ground to be heard.

    Razaleigh has challenged the top party leadership before. In 1987, he challenged Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad for the leadership and lost by 43 votes. He then formed a rival faction of Umno, splitting the party to form Semangat 46, which helped PAS to win control of Kelantan, Ku Li’s home state.- THE MALAYSIAN INSIDER

  333. #333 by sheriff singh on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:01 pm

    Correct(ion)s, correct(ion)s, correct(ions).

    Don’t you fellas ever review your thoughts, words, deeds or writings?

    You write faster than you think?

  334. #334 by Menang atau mati on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:03 pm

    Seems like someone else has answered that BN cybertrooper Lee Wan Y……. criticism of me!!


    Thank you ctos , godfather and the rest.

    I wonder what makes that BN crony guy Lee Wa…. Y….. thinks he is the only one with high intellect(if he is really one).

    I just do not want to waste too much of my time with those type of people like Lee W.. Y… who are likely to be paid BN agent provocateurs.

    Or perhaps a university student doing a dissertation on a political science paper using us as guinea pigs?

    Here we talk logic not theoretical induction.

  335. #335 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:06 pm

    sheriff singh,
    A slip of the tongue (in this case hand) is no fault of the mind. That’s called “A FREUDIAN SLIP”

    Pardon the mistake-lah… we are all so tired after all the excitement. Don’t you go to your favourite mamak stall for your teh tarik anymore?

  336. #336 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:06 pm

    oh that’s funny ……. :) sorry…..

  337. #337 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:07 pm

    to clarify: I meant the comments about logic not theoretical induction and guinea pigs…. :)

  338. #338 by Godfather on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:11 pm

    Menang atau mati:

    You are right, the clown is probably doing his dissertation entitled “Islam – the Face behind the Mask” or something like that. He just won’t give up. He continues to quote articles from the internet and excerpts from wikipaedia. He thinks that we are all dhimmis (as defined in the wikipaedia). Let’s see if the clown gives up after the swearing-in in Kuala Kangsar tomorrow.

  339. #339 by Menang atau mati on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:12 pm

    It is not only “A Freudian Slip”.

    It is also a sign of the times.

  340. #340 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:13 pm


    Your caricature about the flat world misses the point.

    There are acceptable and unacceptable uses of inductive inferences. You cannot deride a legitimate use of inductive inference by citing an illegitimate use. More precisely, you cannot deride a legitimate use of inductive inference in context A by citing an illegitimate use in context B.

    In scientific contexts, a legitimate use of inductive inference involves causal and nomic explanation. If you want to infer from the fact that a physical substance A has a feature X to the claim that another physical substance B also has feature X, you must show that there are causal/nomic relations between A and B. That’s precisely why your flat world example fails to caricature my argument. The fact that one can cite many illegitimate uses of inductive inference in science (illegitimate because they don’t involve causal/nomic relations) does not show that the legitimate uses of inductive inferences in science (which do involve causal/nomic relations) are unacceptable. Neither can it show that my use of inductive argument in the context of moral reasoning is unacceptable.

    In the context of moral reasoning, a category into which my argument falls, some normative principles must be invoked in comparatively evaluating two actions.

  341. #341 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:14 pm


    No, my thesis is in the philosophy of science

  342. #342 by dawsheng on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:18 pm

    “I hope not. Cos’ two weeks ago, just prior to the election, this is what Dawsheng wrote in another thread found in this blog (see below). Clearly, he was calling chinese voters to vote for the opposition which includes PAS.

    Is this what they might call divide and conquer strategy? Or is this dishonesty, plain and simple?” Old Geezer

    Yes, I did but that was after PAS endorsed the People’s Declaration days before the general election, previously my stands and criticisms on PAS were consistent. I also understood the importance of Perak state to stay in the opposition government, but I am particularly worried when I read RPK’s article titled “Yellow Card For The Opposition” where he wrote;

    “Before Tuanku could decide, Ahmad Awang jumped the gun and announced that the Menteri Besar will be from PAS. Even the PAS President was caught by surprise. But the damage had been done so all he could do was hold his tongue. PKR knows that PAS Perak has a mind of its own and is practically uncontrollable.”


    My question was and still is, if PAS can override the Sultan when it comes to appointment of Perak MB, would not it do the same with other matters, in particularly issues pertaining to Islamic State where the party is still pursuing aggressively? I also question (in previous thread) the validity of the People’s Declaration all opposition parties has endorsed? In view of this, will there be a meaningful collaboration with PAS?

  343. #343 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:19 pm

    A miminal requirement in rational discourse – don’t resort to name-calling. Calling people stupid or clown or etc does not help the discussion. It’s ironic that many people have picked up this habit from those they’ve been bashing – BN MPs who called others monkeys.

  344. #344 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:30 pm

    Yeah. Stop bashing Lee Wang Yen. You should show more compassion for your fellow Malaysian. We agree to disagree… K?

  345. #345 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:32 pm

    For those who accuse me of being a BN spy, would you please search the relevant archive in this Blog and that of Teresa Kok. You’ll find that I’ve been contributing to these blogs since several years ago. From those comments you’ll find that I’m a supporter of DAP.

    It’s high time that we get rid of BN’s mentality that someone who disagrees with leaders of an institution X or criticise them on some issues must be disloyal/unpatriotic to X or a spy of an institution hostile to X.

  346. #346 by lakshy on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:40 pm

    But someone is speaking from a high ground and looking down his/her nose at all perakians and maybe all malaysians too. Lose the superiority complex.

    And the psychotic fear. Do you have friends I wonder?

  347. #347 by dawsheng on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:40 pm

    In my earlier comment I wrote;

    # dawsheng Says:
    Today at 04: 21.32 (10 hours ago)

    “DAP leaders and members have to be fully aware of these concerns. Whether a DAP-PKR-PAS Perak coalition government with PAS MB succeeds or not will depend on its performance and record to demonstrate (i) that the welfare and livelihood of the people of Perak is better safeguarded and promoted than under previous Barisan Nasional state governments; and (ii) that no further Islamisation policies are introduced to the detriment of the constitutional rights of all Malaysians, regardless of race or religion.”

    In clause (ii) not only further Islamisation policies will be detrimental constitutional rights of all Malaysians, but here if at any point of time as it may be for any reasons PAS deemed fit it must obliges where if PAS don’t will be detrimental to them, further introduces Islamasation policies, the consequences will just be as detrimental to the credibility of DAP as a political party. I am ok with uncharted waters but what is underneath the uncharted waters?
    I am questioning why DAP, in my view not necessary, enter the coalition state government with PAS where DAP is aware of clause (ii) that no further Islamisation policies are introduced to the detriment of the constitutional rights of all Malaysians, regardless of race or religion.” as one of the condition where PAS must cooperate to ensure success of opposition state government? Is DAP implying that should PAS further introduces Islamic State policies in Perak State, then the coalition government will be no more? If so, I rest my case.

  348. #348 by cto on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:46 pm

    Lee Wang Yen Says:

    Today at 15: 13.21 (10 minutes ago)

    Your caricature about the flat world misses the point.

    There are acceptable and unacceptable uses of inductive inferences. You cannot deride a legitimate use of inductive inference by citing an illegitimate use. More precisely, you cannot deride a legitimate use of inductive inference in context A by citing an illegitimate use in context B.

    In scientific contexts, a legitimate use of inductive inference involves causal and nomic explanation. If you want to infer from the fact that a physical substance A has a feature X to the claim that another physical ….



    I see that you are an authority on this subject matter. :)

    In the matter of opinion, who decides what is an acceptable use and what is an unacceptable use of inductive interferences? You?

    If you tell people that the Prairies is flat, most people would actually agree with you. If you tell people that Saskachewan is part of the Canadian Priaries and since the Prairies is flat, Saskachewan must be flat, most people would still believe you. And we can probably go on for a while … However don’t push that argument too far and conclude that the whole world is flat.

    Having said that one is still entitled to have the opinion that the world is flat. You don’t necessarily have to agree with the rest of the world. You just did not start with the same set of axioms as the rest of the world.

    Nothing wrong with that except that you are perhaps operating on a completely different set of vectors. A set that is in the imaginary field that might be just a little too difficult for others to see and comprehend.

  349. #349 by dawsheng on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:47 pm

    After Keris, I would like to see an article by Fairsh Noor’s on Songkok.

  350. #350 by Menang atau mati on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:48 pm

    It seems that Mr Lee’s views have very few followers here.

    Why don’t he start his own blog and party?

    Maybe call it – “Malaysia without Islamic State Party”.

    He can then keep harping on the same issue.Maybe he will have 5 million members who are also interested to harp on the same issue on and on.

    Whereas DAP and other Barisan Rakyat parties combined only have less than say 200,000 members or perhaps 50,000 members.

  351. #351 by JMAnywhere on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:54 pm

  352. #352 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:56 pm

    I cited BBC, Times, Wikipedia, the Strait’s Times, some accused me of being too simplistic.

    I responded to wildly inaccurate caricatures by explaing the slightly complex principles involved, some accused me of being too arrogant.

    I’ve never failed to be amazed!

  353. #353 by cto on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 3:56 pm

    dawsheng Says:

    Today at 15: 18.40 (27 minutes ago)
    “I hope not. Cos’ two weeks ago, just prior to the election, this is what Dawsheng wrote in another thread found in this blog (see below). Clearly, he was calling chinese voters to vote for the opposition which includes PAS.

    Is this what they might call divide and conquer strategy? Or is this dishonesty, plain and simple?” Old Geezer


    My question was and still is, if PAS can override the Sultan when it comes to appointment of Perak MB, would not it do the same with other matters, in particularly issues pertaining to Islamic State where the party is still pursuing aggressively? I also question (in previous thread) the validity of the People’s Declaration all opposition parties has endorsed? In view of this, will there be a meaningful collaboration with PAS?


    Question then to you – Is your public criticism of PAS helping or hurting the collboration with PAS?

    I can’t see it helping the collaboration. At best, it does not hurt or help. More likely, it hurts the collaboration in my humble opinion. And if you play an active hand in hurting the collaboration, please do not come back and blame PAS later.

  354. #354 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:05 pm

    It is common in the West (especially amongst the English, Europeans and Australians) that when a person is LIGHTLY asked or indirectly told to “back off”, one has the courtesy to do so and not continue to irritate and aggravate the other party. Unless one is honestly asking for a “fight”!!!

  355. #355 by dawsheng on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:18 pm

    “Question then to you – Is your public criticism of PAS helping or hurting the collboration with PAS?” cto

    Just to ensure that my rights as minority is still protected under the constitution of Malaysia.

  356. #356 by cto on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:24 pm

    dawsheng Says:

    Today at 16: 18.32 (3 minutes ago)
    “Question then to you – Is your public criticism of PAS helping or hurting the collboration with PAS?” cto

    Just to ensure that my rights as minority is still protected under the constitution of Malaysia.


    Spoken like a politician but sir, you have not answered my question. My question again – is you public criticism of PAS helping or hurting the collaboration with PAS?

  357. #357 by kcb on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:29 pm

    Well, jetaime.f, such person is termed to as “Gong Bin” in Hokkien.

  358. #358 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:32 pm

    sorry what’s “gong bin”?

  359. #359 by dawsheng on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:32 pm

    Whether my public criticisms on PAS will help or hurt the coalition state government depends on how PAS/DAP/PKR evaluate my criticisms, I am honored if they do take note of it.

  360. #360 by gilbert on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:33 pm

    No matter who becomes the MB, as long as he can take care of all the Malaysian as a whole, who care??

  361. #361 by lakshy on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:50 pm

    Drop the superiority complex. And one must realise that one doesnt know everything. Then you will do ok. You will then be in good company.

    Stop spreading fear and negativity too!

    Intentions must be good! The Perakians had good intentions when they voted. They still have good intentions in wanting to see this coalition work.

  362. #362 by cto on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:54 pm

    dawsheng Says:

    Today at 16: 32.53 (16 minutes ago)
    Whether my public criticisms on PAS will help or hurt the coalition state government depends on how PAS/DAP/PKR evaluate my criticisms, I am honored if they do take note of it.


    Again, well spoken as a politician and your humility impresses me. :)

    Strange coalition, I must say. One where members of the component parties publicly criticise its partners and then hope that the public criticism will be take constuctively.

    If I may, I would like to make a simple suggestion that the component parties settle matter privately and show a united front publicly. If one has to be two face about things, I think this one is probably OK.

  363. #363 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:55 pm

    Perhaps, a good idea for us to be the “reverse cyber troopers”if there are cyber troopers around, and start spreading some positives around…… ? :)

  364. #364 by rakyatmalaysia07 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 4:59 pm

    Time will tell how this marriage of convenience is going to perform.
    The world will be watching and we Malaysians will be here giving out opinions and reminding the BArisan Rakyat that they are the peoples representatives and as such work with our collective intestes in mind.
    Surely there is a common platform to work on and surely we have the maturity to work with this common platorm .Mutual respect and mutual consideration should be the order of the day.

  365. #365 by alberttye on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 5:21 pm

    Whether DAP works or not with PAS is not a problem.
    What DAP must do is to stick to its ideals of a democratic, free and progressive secular Malaysian Malaysia where all citizens are treated equally and fairly. No one in his good sense will quarrel with that.
    PAS can have its Islamic policies in States where it can form government on its own such as in Kelantan. In other states where coalition is necessary, it has to learn to govern according to secular traditions.
    Mr Lim Kit Siang has shown in the past 40 years his leadership quality and we can safely put our faith in his hands, though sometimes we may put in some ideas to him for his considerations.

  366. #366 by limkamput on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 6:10 pm

    Undergrad2 says: “Political pragmatism rather than ideology should dictate the role of the DAP if it wants to form the state government. The MB only heads the EXCO. He is not the EXCO. There is a huge difference.”

    Political pragmatism to the extent of sacrificing ideology I think is no go. How can this be, if you care to elaborate?

    Agreed that MB is not EXCO, but the position of MB also carries with it certain inherent power. If he is merely heading an EXCO, I wonder why the three parties have to take so much pain to fight and explain to their respective supporters.

    MB could choose to appoint himself to more important and influential positions in the stare EXCO. With the state machinery and municipalities behind him, he could gradually exert his party influence at the expense of his coalition partners. PAS now has limited influence in Perak given its cosmopolitan and multi-racial character. I am not sure this will be the same after 5 year of PAS MB despite the assurance.

  367. #367 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 6:25 pm

    jetaime.f Says:
    Today at 16: 32.05 (1 hour ago)

    sorry what’s “gong bin”?

    Literally: gong bin – talk face

    In this context, our friend is trying to save face. Face is very important to the Chinese. Hence instead of backing off, he tries very hard to win others to his side of the argument. Definitely asking for a fight.

  368. #368 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 6:26 pm

    No… definitely NOT asking for a fight. Hope Sheriff Singh does not see this. ;)

  369. #369 by limkamput on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 6:27 pm

    Now that the election is over, I feel that bloggers should be allowed more leeway to express their views and opinions. I am sure Sdr Lim would like to read from all bloggers no matter how unpleasant some of these may be. We must allow free contest of ideas for that is where the strength of the party and the government is nurtured. Please let Lee Wan Yen and Dawseng to have his say. We may debate and argue with them, but please don’t ask them to shut up or write to Sdr Lim or tell them it is no point because the party has decided.

  370. #370 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 6:37 pm

    lkt-56: mwwwwaaaaahhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa…………..you crack me up…… :)
    k…..may be it’s time to clarify to you – I’m not the foreigner you perceived I am (sorry to break your beautiful dreams), I live overseas but despite my “part” education and exposure I’m still proud to say I’m a Malaysian at heart……and a Malaysian hoping to have the ability to contribute to the Malaysians (in many small ways) especially the poor and weak the opportunities that are denied to them whilst I’m privileged to. Don’t get me wrong, my dad funded me not the government and my dad was funded by grandpapa and not the government and grandpapa is funded by himself and not by the government…. :)

    Thanks for the explanation on gong bin…..all the terms……

  371. #371 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 6:44 pm

    blimey! :)

  372. #372 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 6:49 pm

    yea….blimey…. :) it is kinda embarassing having to disclose this in public, but I can’t stand the fact that I’m being portrayed a Caucasian when I’m not. I’m proud to be Asian…. :) And you have been gracious enough to explain things in detail but now you know how much detail you need to go in future. Thanks…

  373. #373 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 7:21 pm

    no problem. Glad to know that Malaysians overseas still take a keen interest in the affairs back home.

    BR could do with some help and you seem level headed enough for the job.

    Kit, a potential Tony Pua for you. ;)

  374. #374 by jetaime.f on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 7:26 pm

    what happen to all the bloggers???? err…may be someone needs to start the discussion going again……

  375. #375 by lkt-56 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 7:30 pm

    It is dinner time-lah. I am off to y qi gong class. See you later, my friends.

  376. #376 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:00 pm

    “…the position of MB also carries with it certain inherent power. If he is merely heading an EXCO, I wonder why the three parties have to take so much pain to fight and explain to their respective supporters. ”

    What ‘inherent powers’ are you talking about? Whatever powers the MB has are spelt out. I hope you’re not suggesting that the MB’s vote is counted as two votes instead of one. If you’re thinking of the MB heading the other working committess, the same applies. He cannot act on his own and make decisions arbitrarily. He has to listen to the voice of the majority. Guess whose voice that is?

    It is true that the de facto powers of the head of the executive branch may exceed the powers allowed him by the constitution. But that is no fault of the constitution. The Prime Minister of Malaysia is a case in mind. Mahathir, for example, during his tenure as Prime Minister because of his authoritarian ways held more powers than the Federal Constitution allowed him.

    Other than that it is obvious that the post of Mentri Besar is important because of the prestige the position brings to the political party that he heads. The DAP should not be seen as playing second fiddle to its junior partner in the coalition by accepting its representative as MB. I think the DAP leadership should be congratulated for the wisdom of its decision to allow a Malay to be the MB. However, in my opinion the position should have been given to the representative from PKR. That would be only logical since PKR holds more seats than PAS.

    The Regent should never have been asked to choose among three nominees for the post of MB. The Sultan like the Agong is not a ruler with powers of his own to exercise except in the area of Malay customs and Islam which is the official or state religion. The discretion given to him by the constitution is limited to the situation when there is no clear leader who commands the confidence of his party. In the event of there being no clear leader who commands the confidence of his party, he is called to exercise his discretion.

    What happened in the state of Perlis, in my opinion, is a good example of a ruler exercising his powers in a manner not called for or envisaged by the state constitution. I hope the BN government would take the matter to court and settle whatever controversy surrounding the use of the Ruler’s discretion. If it backs down then we would miss the opportunity of knowing where the law stands. If this is allowed to pass unchallenged then who knows one day we may have an Agong who chooses to ignore the force of convention and appoint, however unlikely it may appear to the rest, his own nominee from another party!

  377. #377 by ChinNA on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 8:55 pm

    To Mr Lee Wang Yen:

    It rather unfortunate that I could NOT agree or disagree with all your views because not all that you write is easy to understand. My request is for you to write more simply but still retain the intent of your original composition.

    I think this will help mortals like to me to appreciate you much better. I love to see your entries although I might not understand each and everyone of them.

    Thank for sharing your thoughts with us.

  378. #378 by jalim02 on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 9:50 pm

    Hasn’t Raja Petra in his malaysia-today website stressed again and again the PAS cannot implement Hudud law whether in State or Federal without having 2/3 majority in Parliment? Do you think it is possible for PAS to have 149 Parliment seats over BN, DAP and PKR added together. Unless Raja Petra is misinformed, then we should not worry. DAP should disseminate this information to all concerned, I had this phobia before I was enlightened by Raja Petra. My wife voted for the first time (she is in her 30’s, a housewife who couldn’t give two hoots about politics, but this time round she took the effort to register and vote Tan Kok Wai) due to her dissatisfaction, pleae do not let us down. For once, leave all the racial issue behind, do a good show to prove that we have done the right thing this time. Barisan Rakyat represents Malaysians, not Chinese, not Malay, not Indians, not Others, but Malaysians.

    Not sure if any of you watched the Swiss Open singles final (an hour+ ago), Lee Chong Wei vs Lin Dan of China. What was the Malaysian crowd shouting, they were shouting “Malaysia Bolih”, they did not shout “Lee Chong Wei Bolih”, they did not shout “Malaysian Chinese Bolih”, It was “Malaysia Bolih”. Most of the crowds were Malay. Why is it that we can leave the “race” issue behind (same as when we last won the Thomas Cup) at times like this. The Rakyat at our level mixes well without “race” issues, but it is always a hindrance in Politics. Do not misuse and abuse the “race” factor when it comes to Politics.

    Come on BR, “Malaysia Bolih”

  379. #379 by AhPek on Sunday, 16 March 2008 - 11:56 pm

    Limkamput,you have just come in like a breadth of fresh air with your comment ‘Pleas let Lee Wan Yen and Dawseng to have their say.We may debate and argue with them but please don’t ask them to shut up or write to Sdr Lim or tell them it is no point because the party has decided.’.
    And of course Sheriff Singh’s comment on some of the commenters is timely as well. ‘You write faster than you think.
    And if this continues further,it will be like, if I may use the analogy, the winnowing process whereby one can separate the rice from the chaff.

  380. #380 by dzhod on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 12:22 am

    DAP perlu kepada perubahan sikap. Dap tidak perlu menukar pendirian parti, fahaman anda adalah pegangan anda . Zaman telah berubah . Anda bukan berada dalam tahun 50an ,60an atau 70an.
    Sewaktu penubuhan PAS pemimpin zaman itu memikirkan kpentingan pada zamannya , begitu juga pemimpin DAP .
    Mereka tidak pernah memikarkan atau menjangkakan perubahan pada masa hadapan yang akan berlaku . Tiada siapa tahu apakah yang akan berlaku esok , kita hanya mampu merancang .
    TOLERANSI dan BERSIKAP TERBUKA bukan bermaksud anda mesti menggadaikan pegangan anda atau memaksa PAS menghapuskan pegangan mereka . DUNIA KINI TELAH BERUBAH . KINI MALAYSIA MEMPUNYAI GENERASI MALAYSIA BARU DENGAN CARA DAN PEMIKIRAN BARU .
    DAP ,PKR dan PAS kesemuanya menerima undi daripada semua bangsa . Tiada siapa yang dapat menafikan hakikat itu . Bertanyalah kepada India dan Cina di Bagan Serai , PArit Buntar dan Semanggol yang dimenangi calon PAS . Begitu juga Bertanyalah kepada Melayu di TAiping , Pokok Asam , Ipoh Timur dan Sungai Siput .
    Adalah memalukan apabila toleransi dan keterbukaaan ini tidak diwujudkan oleh DAP yang memerentah Pulau Pinang tetapi telah diwujudkan oleh Pemerentah PAS di Kedah walaupun tiada persetujuan peringkat dasar parti . Tetapi kerana PILIHAN RAKYAT KEDAH maka kerajaan PAS bertoleransi dan bersikap terbuka turut memberi jawatan exco kepada DAP walaupun hanya SATU KERUSI .

    Mr LKM
    dunia kini telah berubah , GENERASI BARU TELAH WUJUD DALAM ACUAN MALAYSIA .DEMI KEMAKMORAN DAN KEPENTINGAN RAKYAT MALAYSIA ANDA PERLU BERUBAH . Generasi Cina kini menghormati anda dan perjuangan anda yang lalu tetapi ramai yang tidak dapat menerima SEBAHAGIAN cara serta gaya pemikiran dan pegangan anda UNTUK ZAMAN INI .


  381. #381 by Godfather on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 12:59 am


    Saya adalah seorang warganegara Malaysia keturunan Cina, dan saya memang setuju dengan kenyataan anda. Malangnya ada penyokong2 PAS dan DAP yang keterlaluan yang sentiasa megkhianati parti dengan sikap extremis mereka. Tertakluklah dibahu kita untuk mengawasi golongan extremis ini supaya generasi2 yang akan datang dapat tinggal dalam suasana yang aman dan bertoleransi.

  382. #382 by cinta_adil on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 5:07 am

    Saudara Lim Kit Siang,

    Saya adalah pengundi baru yang merasa terpanggil untuk menulis sesuatu di sini. Saya Melayu, tetapi saya mengundi untuk calon Cina di kawasan saya yang mewakili DAP di Perak. Undi saya secara terangnya kerana ingin menumbangkan BN. Dan ianya telah tercapai.

    Benar, DAP pada asasnya sebelum pilihanraya tidak mahu bersekongkol dengan Pas di Perak. Tapi, secara jujur, sikap DAP perlu berubah. Berubah untuk RAKYAT. Bukan lagi bersandarkan kepada matlamat PARTI, tetapi RAKYAT. Itu lebih penting. Malaysia dibina berasaskan semangat perkauman yang sungguh kuat. Begitu juga dengan DAP (betulkan saya jika salah) secara umumnya. Pandangan sebegini dan teras parti perlu relevan dengan kehendak rakyat SEKARANG. Bukan sahaja DAP malah Pas. Pas saya lihat telah mengendurkan sedikit semangat juangnya untuk diadunkan bersama parti-parti pembangkang yang lain. Kenapa DAP tidak boleh membuat perkara yang sama? Pas telah cuba untuk memberi satu kerusi exco di Kedah, jika DAP sendiri sanggup menerima satu kerusi exco untuk mereka di Pulau Pinang. Tetapi, kenapa DAP masih berkeras kepala? Janganlah angkuh. Ini pendapat UMUM yang melihat perkembangan terkini antara Pas dan DAP. Tolonglah bekerjasama pada dasarnya. Pas sendiri telah melonggarkan syarat-syarat ‘Negara Islam’nya. Kenapa DAP tidak boleh buat perkara yang sama? Jika sesuatu tidak dilakukan dalam akra umbi DAP, saya pasti RAKYAT akan bangkit menentang kerajaan campuran ini dan kembali kepada BN.

    Banyak pandangan bernas dan tidak kurang juga ekstrem di sini, terutamanya mengenai peranan Sultan-Sultan Melayu yang menjadi Ketua Negeri. Memang benar Sultan hanya berhak memilih Menteri Besar atas nasihat dan juga majoriti undi di negeri masing-masing. Tetapi mereka juga berhak campur tangan menentukan dan memilih siapa yang dirasakan layak selepas nama-nama calon diserahkan. Dan juga ditambah dengan sentimen RAKYAT mengikut perlembagaan negeri. Ada di kalangan pembaca di sini mengatakan, jika Barisan Rakyat boleh menguasai 2/3 majoriti parlimen, mereka boleh menukar perlembagaan terutamanya mengenai status atau kuasa Raja dan Sultan. Inilah yang akan mencetuskan ketengangan kaum. Masing-masing perlu faham dan berhati-hati dengan kes hak-hak dan ketuanan Melayu yang amat berbahaya dimainkan. Perlembagaan asas bukan dicipta dalam parlimen Malaysia, tetapi melalui perjanjian dengan British dahulu. Sangat relevan sebab ianya membentuk apa itu Malaysia. Kita perlu berpegang kepada asas itu. Jangan cuba permainkan peranan PERLEMBAGAAN, kerana jika tidak, Barisan Rakyat akan dilihat sama sahaja dengan Barisan Nasional terutamanya UMNO yang selalu mempermainkan isu ini di dalam media-media mereka sekarang ini.

    Buat masa sekarang, saya melihat Pas dan PKR cuba dan berjaya untuk jadi relevan selepas pilihanraya kali ini. DAP dilihat (secara umum), masih lagi tidak mahu berubah. Masih lagi berpegang pada prinsip asal yang tertutup.

    Berundinglah. Saya orang Melayu, tapi saya merayu pada DAP? Merayu meminta DAP berubah dan ikut rentak rakyat. Yang penting berunding dan capai kata sepakat. Jika tidak, saya mungkin akan mengubah persepsi pembangkang Malaysia yang sememangnya tidak relevan. Kembalilah ke dalam Barisan Alternatif. Satukan matlamat anda. Itu sangat-sangat penting. Sebabnya? Rakyat kurang yakin dengan gelaran ‘Kerajaan Campuran’ terutamanya di Perak kerana ia tidak nampak kukuh. Dan rakyat juga akan merasa keliru apa itu Barisan Rakyat dan apa itu Barisan Alternatif.

    Barisan Alternatif (Pakatan Pas dan PKR sahaja).
    Barisan Rakyat (Pakatan BA, DAP dan lain-lain Parti Politik Pembangkang di Semenanjung Malaysia).

    Jadi, bersatulah.

  383. #383 by Ade on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 10:17 am

    Sometimes I wonder YB LKS is anti-malay or anti-islam. You spoke of malaysians as ONE creating a political tsunami and yet you express your resentment towards PAS? The chinese voted for PAS and so did the Malays voted for DAP…Please look back at yourself before talking. Sometimes I wonder whether what policies you are talking about….please be transparent about it.

    Are you sure PAS could impose Islamic State Law by itself? PAS is able to manage a state by itself. Learn from them instead of squabbling on something which is not relevant anymore (Islamic State). If you keep on going around expressing your protest…I can guarantee a political tsunami next election and it will be all your FAULT!

  384. #384 by Wisdom above on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 11:52 am

    Wake up !

    Look like Sabahans know what is the ” Truth”.

    > Someone from Sabah talk sense….. Repeat for reference only.

    1)…Sabah Progressive Party president Datuk Yong Teck Lee said he was puzzled why the NEP was still an issue when it had been replaced by the

    >’National Development Policy’(NDP)…

    > TUN DR M launched the “NDP” which year ? I forgot the year ,do you remember ?

    2)…“so called cancellation of the NEP” was completely redundant because it no longer existed and it was equally disappointing that Penang Umno was still harping on a non-existent policy.

    3)…no wonder that some politicians both from ruling and opposition have lost focus on which policy to talk about,”

    Why PKR,DAP,PAS & West Malaysians are still dreaming ? ….Lost focus ?

    Why MCA, Gerakan, MIC, PPP, PBB,PRS still hiding the ‘Truth’ ?

    Bravo, Sabahans dare to speak out.

    Syabas. Barisan Rakyat.

  385. #385 by Bobster on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 1:18 pm

    Kepada pembaca-pembaca sekalian.

    IMO, YB LKS memang tersilap kata menggunakan perkataan ‘boycott’. Memang salah digunakan bila menghadapi sultan dan raja-raja. Sepatutnya guna perkataan seperti ‘perlu masa untuk mendapat persetujuan umum’. Penggunaan perkataan dalam kontek yang salah menyebabkan ramai yang tersinggung including yours truly. Maklumlah kami cuma manusia bukan Tuhan, kadang-kadang membuat kesilapan.

    Adalah dimaklumkan, konsep pertubuhan Barisan Rakyat baru ditangani di dalam masa yang begitu singkat semasa pernamaan calun kurang dari satu bulan dahulu. Pihak DAP masih tertanya-tanya adakah pertubuhan ini akan menyebabkan perselisih faham dan kegelisahan supporter khususnya golongan tua, konsevetif dan golongan ramai yang tidak dapat maklumat dari internet. Maklumlah, ramai kaum cina boycott DAP dalam Pilihanraya 1999 disebabkan kegelisahan merujuk kepada isu yang agak sama.

    Walaubagaimanapun, harap ramai dapat kasi chance untuk gabungan PKR/DAP/PKR pada masa ini untuk mencapai kemantapan. Memang banyak lagi perkara yang perlu diselesaikan dan diperbetulkan. Bagi gabungan baru yang tidak ada banyak pengalaman, bagilah chance lah sikit untuk membuat kesalahan kecil, bagilah constructive critisms supaya mereka boleh terus berubah dan bergabung dengan lebih efektif.

    Perlulah setiap pihak PKR/DAP/PAS bertolak ansur untuk kepentingan rakyat jelata.

    PKR/DAP/PAS berjaya kerana berupaya melangkah kedepan berasaskan ‘Blue Ocean Strategy’. Konsep baru pengabungan yang dapat menarik perhatian rakyat sejagat. Sekarang pihak BR berada di lautan biru yang tidak pernah dicapai oleh BN. Banyak pihak yang gelisah adakah BR akan membawa rakyat ke tahap yang lebih bagus berbanding dengan BN. Ramai juga yang ingin membuat u-turn kerana tidak mahu terima perubahan, masih ingin lagi tiduk dibawah tempurung. Untuk golongan yang terpelajar, cubalah sedaya upaya menerangkan konsep gabungan baru ini kepada golongan yang kurang berpelajaraan. Cubalah sedaya upaya memberi nasihat-nasihat sewajar kepada pihak PKR/DAP/PAS supaya negara ini akan terus maju dan tidak diketepikan menghadapi arus globalisation, matang dan boleh terus berjaya untuk rakyat sejagat.

    Untuk maklumat sekalian hamba ini bukan support DAP/PKR/PAS tapi supporter konsep Barisan Rakyat.

  386. #386 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 1:27 pm



    GEORGE TOWN: The DAP has expressed shock and anger over Pas’ proposal to form an Islamic federal government.

    DAP life adviser Dr Chen Man Hin said the party would not agree or co-operate with Pas should they insist on forming an Islamic government at the federal level.

    “This is not part of our understanding. It will be no-go for the DAP if they do that. We will surely not accept it.

    “Their proposal has left a big question mark over our future co-operation,” a visibly upset Dr Chen said while angrily pushing aside a newspaper article on the Pas proposal.

    Dr Chen, who was at the day-long DAP national leadership convention, said the party decided to co-operate with Pas because of its intention to convert Malaysia into a welfare state.

    “But look at what they are saying now,” he said when asked to comment on Pas vice-president Datuk Husam Musa’s statement that Pas was confident it could soon set up an Islamic form of government at the federal level.

    Husam had said there was growing support among the Chinese and Indians for the party’s political struggle.

    Dr Chen said the DAP would be discussing the matter soon.

    “While I would like to leave this matter alone at this moment, I think the party will need to seek clarification on this.

    “Right now, we do not know whether it is Husam’s personal view or the party’s.”

    Parti Keadilan Rakyat vice-president Sivarasa Rasia also expressed surprise at Husam’s statement.

    “I have looked at the latest manifesto of Pas and there is nothing stated about an Islamic government.”

  387. #387 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 1:42 pm

    Dr. Chen, I think many DAP supporters here will say to you, ‘see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil’.

  388. #388 by Bobster on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 1:56 pm

    We have started our boycott campaign for a week on the national newspapers namely NST, Utusan and The Star.

    Let PKR/DAP/PAS settle their differences. Believe DAP leaders and supporters would not accept the proposal but again let the leaders settle the differences. Not let the opportunists making use of these sensitive issues to destroy the coalition.

    That’s my 2 cents.

  389. #389 by Bobster on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 2:22 pm

    Correction, Not = Do not.

    The main income generation natural oil reserve is drying fast. The country will become net importer of crude oil in 5 yrs time.

    Let’s us be prepared as the country is heading towards globalisation and facing immense external challenges due to global inflation. Let’s work together for the betterment of all Malaysians and stop harping on non essential issues that have become the stumbling block to the nation growth in the last 38 yrs.

  390. #390 by PetirRoket on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 2:42 pm

    Bro. Lee Wang Yen, Jeffrey, and others, thank you for your clear-mindedness and principled stand on the issue of a Pas ADUN as the MB of Perak. As all of you have rightly pointed out, this issue has clear far-reaching implications for the future of Malaysia.

    Firstly Sdr. Lim Kit Siang did the right thing in asking for the DAP ADUN to boycott the proposed swearing-in-ceremony of the new MB. However, such a stand should have been made as soon as the election results for Perak came in.

    Secondly, the Perak DAP leadership under Sdr. Ngeh Koo Ham and Nga Kor Ming is weak and indecisive. Uncle S. Ponmugam – who was slated to be the DAP’s candidate for the Sungai Siput parliamentary seat – was right when he lambasted the state leadership for making too many concessions to PKR. Now, we see even worst concessions to Pas.

    Thirdly, as Dr. Kua Kia Soong says, the Perak DAP’s lacks professionalism in the form of a strategic mindset which sacrifices long-term goals for short-term respite.

    Fourthly, it most ironic that the Perak DAP is becoming more and more like the non-Umno component parties in the BN, i.e. playing second fiddle or are there just to deliver the non-Malay Muslim votes. So, the next time around, should the DAP retain the same number of seats, Pas will just be riding on the back of the DAP’s votes.

    Fifthly, Perak DAP’s acquiscence amounts not only to a betrayal of the mandate by the Chinese and Indian voters but also the Malay voters who stand shoulder to shoulder with us in rejecting an Islamic state.

    Sixthly, it is worth repeating that for Pas, not for the Perak DAP, it is just the beginning. Never ever forget that we are dealing with conviction politicians here. That is very good. But it is the contents of their conviction which is opposed to Malaysia as a secular state.

    Seventhly, Perak DAP has been outmanouvered by Pas and to an extent PKR.

    Eightly, it must be remembered opposition to a Malay Muslim as MB of Perak is precisely the politics, the new politics of a Malaysian Malaysia which rejects the racial politics practiced for the past fifty years in this country.

    Ninthly, there is a distinction between head of state and head of government. The head of state is not subject to the popular will of the people. But the head of government is. The head of state is a constitutional and ceremonial figure. The head of government is a political figure. The head of state therefore acts upon the advice of the party which wins the most seats in the democratic system.

    Tenthly, I guarantee you that the indecisiveness and apparent lack of conviction on the part of the Perak DAP leadership will not win them any respect or affection amongst the Malays whose outlook can be changed. If Lee Kuan Yew and the PAP had acted in the same manner as the Perak DAP, they would have lost Singapore to Umno a long time ago.

  391. #391 by PetirRoket on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 2:44 pm

    Ah yes, and thank you also to Limkamput for your views.

  392. #392 by PetirRoket on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 2:47 pm

    Bro. Lee, I’m a Christian too, who is also interested in the philosophy of science. Please visit my blog at predestinariansuccession.blogspot.com and leave any comments. I would like to get in touch with you. Thank you.

  393. #393 by PetirRoket on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 2:56 pm

    On the subject of Turkey, Turkey may not style herself to be an Islamic state, Turkey is nonetheless a Muslim country by default. Remember, Turkey is a member of the OIC – Organisation of Islamic Countries. The thing is that Islam is merely HIDDEN from the public gaze. That is secularism for Turkey does not refer to a paradigm shift, but cultural adjustments to enable Turkey to be more acceptable to Europe. Turkey considers herself to be part of Europe. Indeed, the Ottoman Empire once ruled parts of Europe. It is a case of Turkey enjoying the best of both worlds. Apostasy is still punishable. Christian converts are subject to the same kind persecution that they are subjected to in Islamic countries.

    Islam as a public cult is de-emphasised but Islam as a private cult is still there. And since there is no separation between religion and politics in Islam, the line between public and private cult is very thin indeed. Secondly, Islam in Turkey just as in many Islamic countries has been blended into Turkish nationalism. To be a Turk is to be a Muslim.

    Therefore what this means is that Islam has assumed a different form in Turkey but the mindset is still there.

    Remember too that Lebanon with a 50 percent Christian population is also a member of the OIC.

  394. #394 by cinta_adil on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 3:06 pm

    Terima Kasih Bobster atas penerangan yang diberikan. Amat diterima dan saya sebagai orang biasa yang punya peluang membuka internet akan cuba menerangkan perkara yang sama kepada golongan-golongan yang tidak berpeluang.
    Tapi anda atau pucuk pimpinan DAP sendiri perlu mengeluarkan satu statement yang jelas selepas ini ke mana arah tuju Barisan Rakyat terutamanya di Perak tempat saya mengundi. Mungkin saya tidak berpeluang mengenali DAP, tapi Pas punya suara yang jelas melalui saluran harakahdaily.net mereka. Itu rujukan saya, rujukan UMUM. Untuk dikekalkan dalam minda melawan arus media perdana. BR perlukan satu saluran yang jelas. Usahakan ke arah itu dahulu. Saya mungkin bersuara seperti budak baru mengenali apa itu politik. Maafkan saya jika saya sebenarnya tidak tahu menahu kewujudan WEBSITE lain yang menyokong BR. Malaysiakini saya anggap neutral sahaja tanpa maklumat kuat untuk melekat dalam minda saya. Mungkin saya silap. Mungkin.

    Saya dahagakan informasi BR! =)

  395. #395 by mchoice2008 on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 3:57 pm

    Husam clarifies ‘take-over’ statement


    KOTA BARU: PAS vice-president Datuk Husam Musa has clarified that his statement on the party taking over the Government at the federal level was taken out of context.

    “I mentioned that we are hopeful of taking 30 more parliamentary seats to win power and not about forming an Islamic Government,” he said.

    Husam urged the mass media to be careful in its reporting to avoid antagonising anyone unnecessarily.

  396. #396 by limkamput on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 4:58 pm

    Parti Keadilan Rakyat vice-president Sivarasa Rasia also expressed surprise at Husam’s statement. “I have looked at the latest manifesto of Pas and there is nothing stated about an Islamic government.”

    Hello, grow up lah vice president. You think is so simple meh, just look at the manifesto of PAS and you found nothing there. I really don’t know what to day say – naive, stupid, simpleton, confidence, legalistic like one of the lawyer wannabes here, or sacrastic. You choose one lah, it is a multiple choice question.

  397. #397 by Bobster on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 6:07 pm


    Setahu saya konsep Barisan Rakyat berasal dari RPK People’s Declaration yang ditangani oleh pihak-pihak PKR, DAP dan PAS sebelum pemilihan calun yang berjaya mengelakkan perang 3-penjuru ie perang sesama sendiri yang melemahkan pihak pembangkang selama ini. Sudah lama suara rakyat jelata tidak diperdulikan dan diperalatkan oleh pihak croni untuk ‘berlawan’ sesama sendiri. People’s Declaration telah berjaya menghentikan ‘perang saudara’ dengan mengabungkan parti-parti pembangkang dan mengalihkan perhatian rakyat untuk berperang pembelot-pembelot negara yang telah menghabiskan beribu juta duit rakyat untuk hal peribadi.

    Konsep ini masih dalam perkembangan baru dan pihak DAP boleh dikatakan amat berhati-hati dalam hal ini. Bagilah masa untuk ketua-ketua PKR/DAP/PAS untuk mencapai kata sepakat dan amatlah diharapkan semua pihak dapat bertolak-ansur, praktis moderation untuk kebaikan semua. Banyak pihak cuba mengapi-apikan isu-isu sensitif untuk meruntuhkan pakatan PKR/DAP/PAS.

    Maaf bang tidak dapat mengeluarkan statement yang jelas sebab bukan pucuk pimpinan mana-mana pihak. Cuma supporter harap ketiga-tiga pihak dapat kerjasama untuk kebaikan semua.

    Bersatu Teguh, Bercerai Roboh.

  398. #398 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 7:58 pm

    PAS akan terus mempertahankan prinsipnya
    Roslan SMS
    Sun | Mar 16, 08 | 4:32:16 pm MYT

    PAS saya yakin akan terus mempertahankan agenda Islam dalam apa keadaan sekalipun, kerana ia Parti Islam, kekalahan atau kemenangan tidak akan merobah hakikat itu. Sama ada PAS pembangkang, PAS membentuk kerajaan negeri, PAS bersama BN (tahun 70an) atau kini PAS bersama PKR dan DAP, tidak sesiapa pun yang bekuasa mengikis atau mematikan matlamat perjuagan PAS itu.


  399. #399 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 17 March 2008 - 8:16 pm

    PAS rejects secular democracy (DAP’s ideology). Theocracy is the Only Option:

    Pemikir-pemikir politik Barat, sedar akan kemunduran kerana dijajah oleh keagamaan Kristian yang banyak tidak rasional terhadap mereka, menyebabkan negara mundur.

    Dari sinilah lahirnya fahaman sekular yang memisahkan penghidupan dengan agama, sekali gus memisahkan agama daripada politik (daripada kalangan Kristian).

    Meskipun itu boleh berlaku dalam masyarakat Barat yang berpegang dengan fahaman Kristianiti, ia berbeza dengan agama Islam.
    Pemikiran politik Islam bertitik tolak daripada kefahaman Islam yang tidak memisahkan Islam daripada pemerintahan.

    Ia bersatu dalam satu perkataan di istilahkan sebagai Ad-Din, cara hidup yang lengkap, terungkap seperti firman Allah (mafhumnya): “…Pada hari ini, Aku (Allah) telah menyempurnakan bagi kamu agama kamu, dan Aku telah cukupkan nikmat-Ku terhadap kamu, dan aku reda Islam menjadi ad-Din kamu (cara hidup yang sempurna)…” (Surah al-Maaidah, ayat 3)

    Oleh kerana itu, kita umat Islam perlu terima hakikat, Islam adalah agama yang sempurna, termasuk cara berpolitik, memerintah cara Islam.

    Jika kita menolak pegangan ini dan memilih yang lain, ia bermakna menolak ketetapan Allah dan merendah-rendahkan agama, seolah-olahnya cara hidup ciptaan manusia, lebih sempurna dari ciptaan Allah.

    Merendah-rendahkan agama Allah boleh menyebabkan kerosakan akidah.

    Bersama Dr Haron Din: Pilihlah parti untuk kebahagiaan dunia, akhirat
    Dr Haron Din
    Thu | Feb 28, 08 | 10:08:47 am MYT


    [please – limit your posting to ONE thread, multiple posting of the exact same comments = spam]

  400. #400 by Lee Wang Yen on Tuesday, 18 March 2008 - 1:25 am

    Islamists believe that Islam cannot be implemented in a
    comprehensive manner without the power of the state; the
    Quranic obligation for all Muslims to “promote good and
    eliminate evil” cannot be realised without the legitimacy
    and resources of the state. Hence, according to Islamists,
    establishment of an Islamic state is not something
    recommendatory or optional; it is a fundamental obligation
    for all Muslims.


  401. #401 by PetirRoket on Tuesday, 18 March 2008 - 8:41 am

    Nice, my views on the Perak MB post has been censored, and I didn’t even verbally abused Kit Siang or anything like that.

    Sigh … and the DAP didn’t even bother to really explain how it can suddenly make a U-turn and work with Pas in government.

  402. #402 by PetirRoket on Tuesday, 18 March 2008 - 8:42 am

    The DAP has betrayed the mandate of the Chinese and Indiand voters. The DAP has also betrayed the support given by our fellow Malay brothers and sisters who stand shoulder to shoulder with us in the struggle for a Malaysian Malaysia.

  403. #403 by PetirRoket on Tuesday, 18 March 2008 - 8:43 am

    The DAP has shown that it is willing to sacrifice long-term ideological goals for short-term political convenience. This itself shatters all idealistic perception of the DAP

  404. #404 by PetirRoket on Tuesday, 18 March 2008 - 8:47 am

    The DAP’s survival as a multi-racial party is at stake. If this continues, the DAP will find itself exactly like Gerakan – irrelevant. It is precisely the stance that the DAP is adopting now which will make it irrelevant, contented with the non-Malay, particularly Chinese votes. With a shrinking Chinese population, that is how the Chinaman will act, i.e. deliver the Chinese votes whilst Pas and PKR deliver the Malay votes. The irony is PKR is even more multiracial than DAP, as it compete for Chinese votes, and as Pas broadens its appeal beyond the ethnic-religious boundaries.

  405. #405 by fade2grey on Tuesday, 18 March 2008 - 10:55 am

    Thanks for clearing the air, Uncle Lim.

  406. #406 by Godfather on Tuesday, 18 March 2008 - 12:07 pm


    If PKR is more multiracial, and PAS broadens its appeal beyond the ethnic-religious boundaries, should DAP become more chauvinistic in its approach to attracting more Chinese votes ? Or should DAP join these parties in broadening its multiracial approach ?

    How has the DAP betrayed the Chinese and Indian voters ? By becoming more tolerant and less hardline ?

  407. #407 by Bobster on Tuesday, 18 March 2008 - 1:26 pm

    This article taken from The Sun, Updated: 07:34PM Mon, 17 Mar 2008

    Cooperation yes, but no hudud law
    Kong See Hoh

    PETALING JAYA (March 17, 2008): DAP stalwart Lim Kit Siang has accepted a PAS proposal to cooperate but made it clear the party will not accept the Islamic state professed by PAS and the implementation of hudud law, Sin Chew Daily reported today.

    He said DAP is reassessing the proposal and considering renewing its cooperation with PAS, in accordance with the wishes of the people.

    However, there is one condition – no Islamic state and no hudud law.

    He said the results of the general election reflected the wishes of the people for the two party to cooperate, hence DAP would look at the model of cooperation with PAS.

    “This model of cooperation with PAS is not confined to the (forming of) state governments of Selangor and Perak,” Lim told the daily in an interview.

    “The people have conveyed their wishes for change, (they) hope to see a new government which is above political party and religion. As such, irrespective of the candidates fielded (by the Opposition), the voters will give their support, to hand the Opposition a victory. This showed the hope the people has in the Opposition.”

    Lim said DAP had nothing to do with PAS before the general election, but after March 8, DAP was faced with the political reality of having to forge cooperation with PAS lest the Opposition will not be able to form state governments.

    He said now DAP can consider the model of cooperation with PAS but one thing remains unchanged – DAP’s stand against the Islamic state ideology, the implementation of hudud law and any Islamisation policy.

    He said DAP would not let the people down in striving for a fair, democratic and just society because the people has asked for change through the ballot box.
    But if DAP, Parti Keadilan Rakyat (PKR) and PAS cannot cooperate, then nothing will change, he said.

    The above article very well explain the rakyat stand. Yes, the rakyat aka coalition of PKE/DAP/PAS will stick to Federal Constitution, Perlembagaan and Rukun Negara.

    To all BN losers, fyi, since pre-election day we, the rakyat have come to concensus to vote for one another irrespective of race and religion. Post election sentiment is that the concensus will continue to stand though many BN goons aka losers still haven’t give up trying hard to break the coalition. Yes, ultimate goal is to split the coalition, split the rakyat with your race based and religious based policies, then we the rakyat will be the losers end of the day. Too late, my frens, under 38 yrs of BN oppression is enough, we know your tricks and lies, the coalition will continue to grow from strength to strength and mind you one day, we the rakyat will make sure no pembelot, cronies, corrupt stay if they still call themselves MALAYSIANS. Let’s kick them out before the doggies destroy to the nation.

    Suggest the moderator kindly do the rakyat a favour, just delete and ban some of these running doggies. Thanks!

  408. #408 by mchoice2008 on Tuesday, 18 March 2008 - 3:18 pm

    PAS vice-president Datuk Husam Musa has clarified that his statement on
    the party taking over the Government at the federal level was taken out
    of context.

    “I mentioned that we are hopeful of taking 30 more parliamentary seats to
    win power and not about forming an Islamic Government,” he said

    Lee Wang Yen, you happily and selectively took NST and STAR reports to support your arguments.

    Our best guess is that you are still a PHD student, possibly doing some research in religion or so.

    It looks like you are more concerned with your own arguments and research topics than really thinking of some PRACTICAL and IMPLEMENTABLE ways to move Malaysia to a BETTER Malaysia.

    Be more humble, and be more practical. The world is definitely much more diverse than what you could see from your research topics.

  409. #409 by NewDAP on Tuesday, 18 March 2008 - 3:38 pm

    PAS vs Prositution

    Asia Sentinel Staff
    14 March 2008
    Asia looks on with wonderment at the fall of a US politician caught in a sex scandal

    So it is shocking news that the governor of New York had been buying the services of high-class hookers? Probably the real news is the fuss that the whole of the US is making about this incident. Politician Visits Prostitute should be about as newsworthy as Dog Bites Man. Pope Visits Prostitute might just be worthy of the front page. One of the first lessons any cub reporter learns covering politics anywhere on the globe is that politicians want to be loved. They want to be loved in general, as one old political reporter once said, and they want to be loved in particular. That’s why they become politicians.

    Of course, the US is not alone in its hypocrisy. Hong Kong police for example are forever raiding one-woman vice establishments, usually claiming to be in search of illegal migrants. Every now and again a sauna/massage parlor where sex is also on tap is closed, with the offending women marched to paddy wagons with bags over their heads for photographers employed by the local papers. Yet others continue to operate openly. Try Wan Chai on almost any night for the legions of “tourists” in from Colombia or Russia or Nairobi, offering their wares.

    Escort services, obviously no more than prostitution fronts, advertise freely in the Yellow Pages and elsewhere and there are numerous buildings in Wan Chai, Mongkok, Tsim Sha Tsui and elsewhere where whole floors are occupied by one-woman apartments which are advertised in newspapers or on the internet offering “full service” sex for as little as HK$300. At the other end of the income scale, the city’s tycoons are notorious for their sexual appetites. Indeed, sex is usually their only interest other than money-making.

    Malaysians flock to southern Thailand for sex but that’s because it’s cheap rather than because it is not readily available at least in the major cities and despite the occasional busts of Malay women by the religious authorities. The elite however, don’t have much to fear from such intrusions into the rooms always on hand for them to entertain their guests at luxury hotels — unless, of course, there is a political motive. Ask Chua Soi Lek, one of Malaysia’s top Chinese politicians, who resigned in January after a sexually explicit videotape — made by political rivals from four different hidden camera angles — was circulated showing him getting into bed with an unnamed woman. Like Spitzer, Chua decided it would be wiser to just quit.

    In China it seems there is scarcely any middle ranking party or state official or who doesn’t have ready access to sexual services whether in return for cash or favors. As for the Philippines, Thailand and Indonesia there can only be wonderment that the supposedly liberal, anything-goes US can make such a fuss about a politician spending money on sex. The mistress of Fidel Ramos was practically a member of the Filipino cabinet, so influential was she.

    But the whole US media is so eager to titillate its readers with stories of extra-marital sex that Spitzer has wiped the Obama-Clinton fight off the front page. Not content with its glee over the story of the fall of Spitzer, the media is now obsessing about the life story of the young lady who was supplementing her income with an entirely voluntary act. This is mostly the same media which is apt to accuse Rupert “Dirty Digger” Murdoch of using salacious stories to sell newspapers.

    Indeed, a world already disenchanted with the US because of issues ranging from Iraq and Guantanamo to foreign debt and the sub-prime fiasco looks with astonishment as the nation which makes heroes of drug-addicted singers and serial-dating starlets crucifies a leading politician for buying plain vanilla heterosexual sex from an adult.

    Of course, Spitzer’s history of moralizing, including entrapment of others in just what he himself was found to be doing, set him up for a sudden fall. But disdain for Spitzer should have turned to pity in finding that the cheerleaders at his downfall were the crooks and sleazebags of Wall Street, the investment bankers and fund managers whom Spitzer had chased for the scams which enriched them at the expense of the small savers and investors. Those cheering loudest were the very Wall Street titans whose drug- and alcohol-fuelled office parties have featured everything from dwarf-tossing to on-tap prostitutes catering to every sexual taste and preference.

    There is no reason that prostitution should be illegal in a free society where women have free choice of what they do with their bodies and how they earn a living. It is hard to think of any society where prostitution is not big business and where a significant proportion of females earn a living, full or part-time, from it. China under Mao, yes, the Soviet Union under Stalin maybe. Saudi Arabia today — perhaps except for the rulers themselves and rich who keep women in Beirut or Nice.

    But these are rare exceptions to the rule that women often exchange sexual favors for advantages, be they cash or a job or new dress. That’s human nature just as it is human for many men to want sex as often as possible and with as many partners as chance or wealth allows. It flourishes even in places such as the Islamic Republic of Iran where theoretically the punishment is severe.

    Unable in free societies to make prostitution itself illegal — although it is mostly illegal in the publicly puritan United States — the self-styled moralists instead go after the intermediaries, the agencies who act as go-betweens, the pimps and the owners of the apartments. While there are doubtless cases where these intermediaries trap and intimidate the women — most often if they are illegal migrants — this is the exception, not the norm so promoted by the media (whose own members are among the most frequent users of sexual services). In this as in any other service business, intermediaries of one sort or another are necessary. Yet application of laws is almost invariably unfair.

    In the Spitzer case, vast amounts of time have been spent by FBI and other sleuths to bring a case under an obscure law about crossing state lines for immoral purposes. That makes as much sense as taxing bread being carried from New York to Washington. It is particularly absurd in a US where in the state of Nevada brothels are perfectly legal, and regulated — as they are in Australia.

  410. #410 by NewDAP on Tuesday, 18 March 2008 - 5:03 pm

    PetirRoket Says:

    Today at 08: 43.34 (6 hours ago)
    The DAP has shown that it is willing to sacrifice long-term ideological goals for short-term political convenience. This itself shatters all idealistic perception of the DAP

    DAP was force to accept PAS candidate as MB due to certain people in DAP who are power crazy, desperately wanted to be deputy MB and back stabbed DAP.

  411. #411 by Lee Wang Yen on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 4:03 pm

    I’ve not used that specific NST online report to support any argument.

    What I did was to use previous excerpts (which did not include that NST online reports) from various sources to show that PAS’s Islamic agenda is incompatible with secular democracy and that PAS is still committed ot such and agenda.

    I did use some of these excerpts to support some of my arguments, as shown in my posts. But I did not use that particular NST online report for any argument.

  412. #412 by Lee Wang Yen on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 4:07 pm

    No, I’m not a PhD student in religion. There is no need to speculate about my identity, just google it.

  413. #413 by cittas on Wednesday, 19 March 2008 - 11:38 pm

    Everybody wants to be a somebody… Nobody wants to be a nobody. If ever there is a somebody who wants to be a Nobody then he is a REAL Somebody…….

    Move on with life and strive to do what you ought to do ….. Feel your own heartbeat I am sure the answer is there. But only the refusal to admit.

    For Barisan Rakyat, time don’t wait for you… It was great to see read comments from good Muslims in Penang who said “going on street demonstrations is not what Islam taught.” So don’t argue at face level, look within your ownself whoever you are. Who are we to JUDGE?

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