Letters
I am writing this e-mail to you regarding your latest post on my former school, SMK BUD4. What the parent has wrote to you is indeed correct. Although I have left BU4 for good but I still do communicate with my friends and teachers of that school. In fact I still do visit it quite frequently.
After hearing about these issues about the new principal I felt that I should play my part as a former student of this school as well. I have a few additional information I would like to share with you. As Valentine’s Day is drawing near, the Scout Troop of SMKBU4 proposed to sell cookies for that occasion to gather some funds for our activities and charity. But to their dismay the Principal rejected the proposal immediately by the reason that she is a Muslim and does not celebrate Valentine’s Day. As far as I know, Malaysia is a multiracial country. The government is trying to promote multiracial values but their civil servant are going against that.
Besides that, our school hold a Talent Night Event for students to show off their capability and talent every year. The new principal has also said that she does not want the event to be held this year. She told a teacher that if we wanted to attend a contest we can go to the US or other Western Countries. After hearing this I felt that this principal has a real narrow mind. I feel sad for her honestly.
I still remember an incident that happened last year during our school’s PIBG’s AGM. As the YDP PIBG stood up to present his speech in English, a Muslim parent stood up as well but for another reason. He requested our YDP to speak in Bahasa Melayu as this is Malaysia. I still remember him saying that the British times are over, every Malaysian should know how to speak in BM. The parent and a few others insisted on their stand therefore we had no choice but to ask a teacher to interprete the text to BM.
Well my question is this. Did anyone or any rule stats that English is not allowed to be used in Malaysia? Even our government are encouraging the citizens to use english. The Education Ministry introduced Maths and Science in English.
#1 by k1980 on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 7:55 am
She told a teacher that if we wanted to attend a contest we can go to the US or other Western Countries….
Why didn’t you demand air tickets from her then?
#2 by DwarfSnakehead on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 8:10 am
I think it is high time for the Malays to wake up.
MALAY is not ARAB. You should have your own culture and religion and be proud of it. For your own good, throw away all those unhealthy arab culture.
Do you think the arabs care about malays or other muslims, especially those from 3rd world countries?
Look back at the many incidents of stampede in Mecca, especially the one in 1990 where 1426 pilgrims died. The Saudi government just bulldoze all bodies into a mass grave, without identifying them or notify their next-of-kin making insurance claim almost impossible.
So please wake-up, you are no arab no matter how hard you pretend to be! The arab will still prefer westerners than asians anytime.
#3 by Bigjoe on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 8:19 am
More important than anything else, this accounts points to the danger of what is going on because of our government avoiding dealing with the tough issues.
1) Even if the principal think her Muslim students should not be celebrating Valentine’s day. Her wholesale rejection of her participation and the celebration itself points towards not only a narrow mind but a lazy one. There is a dozen other way to handle the situation without offending anyone and still get her pont across. She could have pointed out to the student she is a Muslim and made her case for her not to celebrate Valentine’s day. She could simply ask the students if her parent approved and if she still want to make her case, get the parents to discuss it with her. But she did not want to do these things partly because of her self-righteous and lazy opinion.
2) If she objects to the Talent competition, saying people can do it in US or Western Countries is not dealing with the issues like what our government does. Does anyone still think this has nothing to do with Hissamuddin’s and KJ’s Keris waving? She has to make her case, debate it because its her job to educate and open the minds of the students not close it up and tell them to toe the line because its easier.
3) A Malay parent insist on an official speaking in Bahasa Malaysia. Frankly he is not wrong for doing so. But the reason got nothing to do with British time but rather Bahasa is the national language and its not unreasonable request for PIBG head to be fluent in it. But the Malay parent chose NOT to discuss it, NOT to talk of it.
All these incidents scares the hell out of me not because of the wrong view but because there is NO discussion about it. What happened after the PIBG meeting, did the YDP PIBG engage the Malay parent? Not likely. He/She is going back to spread ill-talk of the Malay parents leading to even more animosity.
This is where our PM failed miserably as leader. Four years ago, we clearly sent the message that we as a society were ready to talk about these issues and the PM could have led by controlling the dialogue, engaging everyone in discussion without emotions. Instead he got caught up with his own vulnerability and now emotions are high. It has bred only mistrust and suspicion worsening the situation and worst the direction has taken in making rulings like ‘Allah’ for Muslim only, allowing Hindraf to be called a terrorist organization, not allowing an inter-religious forum. etc. All these points towards pandering to a constituency that he may not be able to control if he backs off to much.
#4 by melurian on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 8:20 am
As the YDP PIBG stood up to present his speech in English, a Muslim parent stood up as well but for another reason. He requested our YDP to speak in Bahasa Melayu as this is Malaysia. I still remember him saying that the British times are over, every Malaysian should know how to speak in BM.
true, he should speak in bm coz this is malaysia. salute that muslim parent.
#5 by sybreon on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 8:25 am
This seems like another major case of principal stupidity. Sadly, this isn’t the first, nor will it be the last.
For the Valentine’s Day, remind her that V’day isn’t just for her, it’s for everyone. All the students should chip in and give her a big box of chocolates and a big red card. Spread the love. If they’ve got enough money, send her a whole big bunch of flowers too. Better yet, fill up her office with bouquets.
There’s of course nothing wrong if people speak English. But during a meeting, it’s important that all present should understand the proceedings. So, we should use the lowest common denominator. Hence, I don’t think it’s anything wrong to speak in BM. I believe that even DAP uses BM during official meetings.
#6 by BlackEye on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 8:38 am
Could it be that the principal is exercising her constitutional right?
She is after all a Muslim and not a Catholic. Wasn’t it St. Valentine during Roman times who thought it was unjust to deny young men from getting married because the Emperor believed that unmarried men made better soldiers? He was martyred for marrying couples in secret.
Should she be pitching her constitutional right against the constitutional right of others?
http://www.history.com/minisites/valentine/viewPage?pageId=882
#7 by oknyua on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 9:02 am
I think this is an exceptional few. I have been in the PIBG committe for 12 years before. In the first school, the lady HM was straight forward in her comments: “If you want to progress, speak English. If you don’t know, learn. If you don’t want to learn, move to another school.”
Our PIBG AGM meeting was conducted in both languages.
The second school that I served was equally forward in outlook. The lady HM was a Master grad and she made no reservation criticising teachers and students who lacked English proficiency.
Of course in her tenure, the school results improved tremendously. The school even participated in the state English Eloquent Contest. The HM was promoted soon after that.
I am thinking about this BUD4 HM. Doesn’t she realise she is contributory to the number of unemployed Malay graduates in the country? I pity her and I pity her students. I hope Mr Hishamudin reads this blog.
#8 by DarkHorse on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 9:05 am
Many Christians reject St. Valentine’s Day because of its pagan tradition or origin.
#9 by K S Ong on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 9:15 am
My daughters used to remind us that their teachers insisted that fruits donated by Chinese must not be cut at home, apparently the knives are not clean. Strangely, cut in Indian homes were ok! Similarly this applied to food preparation. This type of conditions were unheard of during my school days when my Malay friends used to say fondly they attended chapel in school out of curiosity!
#10 by oknyua on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 9:15 am
Mr Melurian, in Malaysia, we speak BM, but the reason for not allowing English in the PIBG meeting has nothing to do with British.
You see the context of your quote is different from your reason. It would be wise to look beyond such misplaced patriotism. The answer could be simply that since PIBG is an official function, BM must be spoken. It is unnecessary to bring the Bristish into the picture.
#11 by Chong Zhemin on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 9:15 am
On the bacaan doa during assembly. I understand it is quite common in most of the SMK schools.
However federal constitution article (12)(3) states that
No person shall be required to receive instruction in or take part in any ceremony or act of worship of a religion other than his own.
Isn’t the bacaan doa during school assembly deemed as “forcing” non muslim students “taking part” in the prayer??
As for the English used during PIBG’s AGM, have a look at this clause;
152(1) The national language shall be the Malay language and shall be in such script as Parliament may by law* provide:
Provided that-
(a) no person shall be prohibited or prevented from using (otherwise than for official purposes), or from teaching or learning, any other language; and
(b) nothing in this Clause shall prejudice the right of the Federal Government or of any State Government to preserve and sustain the use and study of the language of any other community in the Federation.
I’m not sure how should we interpret official purposes. But my first instint is PIBG AGM ain’t official purpose. Maybe jefferey might want to help us interpret the constitution?
#12 by oknyua on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 9:21 am
Chong Zhemin, The setting of the PIBG is under the Education Ministry. I am not sure if was an enactment. But under the rule stipulated, the PIBG must hold an AGM – the act of the AGM itself makes it official.
Yea, maybe Jeffrey has something to suggest?
#13 by malaysianboleh on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 9:23 am
If there is a significant of what they call “halal” in every things in our daily life.Then can a muslim consume the bread on the super market display ,which is halal after a non muslim’s shadows fall onto the bread?
#14 by Chong Zhemin on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 9:30 am
I remember reading somewhere about Article 152 of the Constitution and the controversial interpration of “official purposes” in that clause.
In the seventies, Merdeka University Bhd challenge the government decision to start a chinese university in court and got rejected.
The Court held that the Merdeka University, if established, would be a public authority and accordingly Chinese would be used for an official purpose and that this may be prohibited under Article 152 of the Constitution.
#15 by blackacre on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 9:32 am
If we were able to plot a trajectory of the instances of discrimination the end would indeed be frightening. This is the result of decades of systematic division of the people for the gain of a few, coupled with propoganda of “ketuanan melayu” which give the malays a belief that theirs is a culture and religon above all the rest, translate into a most dangerous recipe… to those who intend to profit from such a volatile concoction, i pray for your soul
#16 by Tickler on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 9:33 am
Strangely, cut in Indian homes were ok! – KS Ong
If you go to an Indian restaurant you`ll see pork is never served. So muslims are under the impression that Indians do not eat pork (whic is haram to muslims).
However, Indian restaurants do not serve pork largely in deference to followers of Vishnu (one of the Hindu trilogy of Brahma, Visnu, Siva) who in one of his incarnations was a `Boar`. So in a sense the pig is holy.
That does not prevent non-vaishnavites (followers of vishnu) from eating pork.
#17 by Chong Zhemin on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 9:37 am
oknyua,
If all PIBG AGM are deemed official, How about Chinese and Tamil school’s PIBG AGM? So all the while they are doing something “illegal”??
#18 by optimuz on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 9:38 am
All these issues are not new. What used to be subtle islamization has now become brazen.
Just ask the Education ministry to do a survey over the enrolment of students in private/international/home/vernacular schools. I am pretty sure it has been on a steep incline…why? For all the reasons already stated….and even malays are beginning to send them there…
The worse thing about these abuses is that, it is not so much about espousing the religion and its values, but more of a ‘form over substance’ matter…they just want to be seen as being pious and ‘holy’….but, for all that, it is evident that they are far from it..
#19 by malaysia born on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 9:42 am
This episode simply proof that our schools are surely being run by people of sub-standard quality who will not hesitate to impose their so-called superior moral values onto others without realizing that this country of ours owe most of her success to tolerance on the part of the majority of the minority races.
If this is how these people want to play the game, then i hope that it will not be asking for too much to ask them to THINK about the consequences of their actions. When the minority starts to see such actions and the composite make-up of the police force and civil servants and the demolition of Indian temples, don’t blame the rapid deterioration of tolerance among the non-malays.
You may have the political power in this country but rest assured that as things are now, you have NO respect from the rest. What has been your achievements other than sending a space tourist to space? What bragging rights do you have when you send a huge contingent to attempt to conquer Mt Everest when ultimately it was left to 2 who are not of your kind to bring honor to the country? How can you walk proud when you have been spoon-fed all your life?
There was a moment in time when i was in a car with a friend and upon seeing a malay man driving a big car next to us, he commented, “Look at that guy with his car obtained through illegal means.”. I told him off for having such narrow-minded views then. But now, i realize just how truthful his comment was.
If you want to be a bunch of backward people, we are not stopping you but don’t force it on us because we are smart, hard working and progressive…and we intend to be that way for many many generations to come.
#20 by bystander on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 9:46 am
1. non muslims should be exempted from bacaan doa assembly. why should it be imposed or made compulsory for non muslims? if muslims are made to consume pork related food in european countries like france or uk, there will be riots. our sleepy PM is asking the west to understand islam and to stop acts which are deemed insulting islam. why is he not telling the malays to understand other religions better and to stop acts insulting to christians, buddhists, hindus etc? What double or treble standards is UMNO dishing out to non muslims.
2. as suggested by hyperventilating, i would be the first to sign up as a parent for a signature drive to rid or sack or replace the hm of BU4. lets make this a national issue. for our children, lets take on all these religious bigots.
#21 by oknyua on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:00 am
Chong Zhemin,
Those are varnecular schools, treated differently. Remember the case where a Malay was posted as a HM in a Chinese school. Everybody protested.
Bystander: The PIBG, if they are united, can make a petition to remove the HM. The HM is the advisor of PIBG, but YDP and Naib YDP can see the PPD with a petition (and detailing all cases against the HM). I don’t know if the HM will be removed, but she would be more careful if the PIGB is against her.
#22 by Libra2 on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:06 am
“did the YDP PIBG engage the Malay parent?”
It will be foolhardy to engage with such a parent, who is most probably an UMNO branch leader.
Try debating with him and he will raise his voice but he will never give reasons for his stand. “Balik China” would be his next line of reasoning!
#23 by Vince on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:07 am
If I am not mistaken, BU4 is a middle to upper class (mostly upper I think) and highly educated resident area. I am surprise this issue is so quiet especially majority of the students are chinese. The parents need to take up the fight and make some NOISE. Let the issue appear in the national newspaper. It will sure catch the attention of our Dear Education Minister, especially election is coming soon…
#24 by qookhoo on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:10 am
LOL…
Sorry for laughing out loud… Have you watch the telly (TV for those don’t understand English) recently? What do we have? Malaysian Idol, One in a Million, Project Runway, Star Search. What are these program about? Talent cultivation, honing hidden talents. Guess what, who are the participants? Some of these individual can’t speak english for nuts. It’s a shame to see in on the national telly.
We all are “fortunate (in your own context)” to be in Malaysia. I for one find due the multi-ethnic, I’m able to converse in multi lingual. It helped at my work very much. But this is just my own initiative. Not due to the education system. I always impress my clients when I can converse up to 6 spoken languages. Sadly, the ego for the individual cause our younger generation stuck with single language. It’s simple, look at our the BM use today. It’s broken by any standard of Dewan Bahasa & Pustaka.
The Tun M, preaching to have a “Vision” of the future capable generation. Now we have a new preacher. How can we be capable when we can’t even converse properly. Look at many multi lingual countries in Europe, (yes I know they are white skin), but look at their education system. Lets take the German for example, they have German, French, English, Latin (compulsory), Spanish, Greek, Italian. That way, they know they are producing knowledge worker, not lowly no knowledge worker.
It’s all related, you can get the egg without breaking the shell. What I would say is, sit up & do it by yourself. Don’t wait for the “Vision” preacher do get things done.
Don’t ask what the country can do for you. Ask what you can you do for yourself.
cheers…
#25 by bystander on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:11 am
The trouble is this little napolean is intimidating PIBG. as one writer says this hm is recruiting more malay parents to support her. instead of teaching to take the school to a higher level, this hm is imposing her religious values on non muslims by playing racial politics. this is happening in all our educational institutions. little wonder our standards are going down the drain requiring even the world bank to provide report. jeffrey & undergrad would have provided the report and recommendations for free. what a bunch of idiots in our govt
#26 by ENDANGERED HORNBILL on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:12 am
If such ‘principal’ behaviour is condoned or even acceptable to the Ministry, I’d like to suggest that Kerismuddin sets up a division of madrasahs under the Ministry & transfer such highbrow principals to head the madrasahs! Then Kerismuddin can also recall his child/children who is/are studying in Australia to be educated in Madrasahs. Such stupid politicians do one thing & then subject the population to another and worse set of standards. To borrow one of Nazri’s famous lines: “Stupid, stupid, stupid!’
#27 by bystander on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:17 am
[deleted] libra is spot on. you simply cannot talk to these narrow minded people
#28 by bystander on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:19 am
could not agree more with endangered hornbill
#29 by grace on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:21 am
Many Christians reject St. Valentine’s Day because of its pagan tradition or origin.- dark horse
Whether it is pageant worship or not is immaterial. Every one is free to practise or celebrate any occcasion as long as it does not infringe into the right os others. Thus the HM here is trying to be ‘holier-than-thou'(I really doubt it) and try to impose on others her believe.
This is unhealthy.
My suggestion is the MINISTER of Education should sack this type of principals once and for all. Now adays, I know most of the HMs are there not because of their ability . They are really half past six. Thus to show that they really ‘work’, they do all sorts of things except the right thing. This culture is mirrored on our Cabinet la.
Thoxse HMs spend most of the time outside attending this meeting and that meeting. Simply they do not know what is required for academic excellence.
Ask any teachers and they will tell you the same thing. Incidentally many of the teachers nowadays are also the same standard. Ask those really good teachers and you have plenty of stories.
#30 by smeagroo on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:21 am
Frankly, If I am there I would have told THE HM off and in a loud voice!
These scums are the trash of the earth!
I wont gv face to such ppl. So what if they are HM? I dont even care if he is the PM if he / she is behaving like a dimwit numbskull nimcompoop!
#31 by smeagroo on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:22 am
In the first place, how many of these HMs are there bcos they deserved it? If not bcos of some patronage and connection and some kowowing, they wont even qualify as a janitor!
#32 by disapointed86 on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:24 am
That principle is truly an idiot..i hope actions taken against her as soon as posibble..how old is she anyway? 50? such a narrow minded? i thought the young people are sporting nowadays..insist meeting to be conducted in BM..you’re rite, no wonder Muslim in Malaysia never progress..may your “Allah” save you..Is this issue published in the newspaper? We need to STOP this BODO* Bitc*..
#33 by megaman on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:41 am
Malaysia has been independent for 57 years already and we still have people commenting that we are no longer under British rule ?
The colonizations of the Malay Archipelago by foreign forces should be a non-issue and relegating to a note in our history.
However, this does not mean we need to hate or remove whatever remnants left from the colonists. Like it or not, it is and will always be a part of our history. Nothing to be ashamed of. What we should be ashamed of is the day when we fail to break out of this mindset and set about to advance our progress as a nation.
Since Bahasa Melayu is our official language there is nothing wrong to request that the speech be made in BM. However, in my opinion the parents were rude and making uncalled for remarks. There is no need to embarass the speaker for such issues. Do you see foreign speakers in our country being remanded for not being able to communicate in our language or our elders who speaks in local dialects to be reminded to use BM ? It seems that Malaysians have forgotten how to be graceful and polite.
Another issue that I would to highlight is the false sense of grandeur and arrogant in our country. We should be proud of our own nation but not to the point that we became arrogant and blind to the realities of the global world. We should be proud that we have a multi-cultural society, that most of us speaks several languages, etc etc. That are so many things to be proud of as a Malaysian.
However, no matter how proud we are, we should be humble and aware that in the global race, Malaysia is nothing but a ikan bilis. Instead of focusing our resources to build white elephants and empty shells of mega projects, we should be focusing our effort to further the progress of knowledge, preserve our culture, advance in science and technology and erase poverty. A F1 race circuit in Sepang, KLCC, Petronas Twin Towers, KL Tower, sending “astronauts” into space, scaling Mount Everest etc … These are just temporary fame, none of these can last and will be superseded by other given time and money.
Empower the rakyat through education and a fair level of competition and we have more than this string of achievements. All without the government spending a single cent or lifting a single finger. Once the nation is great, the language of this nation will be great as well.
English is the global language today not because everyone chose to use English or forced to use English. It is because the English were the first modern empire. It is global because the English empire were global. The French language is prominent not because it sounded nice or the French forced others to learn it. It is what it is today because of the cultural, scientific and technologically advances the French people contributed to the world. Same for the Japanese, Russians and the Chinese. Everyone else wanted to learn their language because they have proven their might and capabilities. What have we done to prove our capabilities to attract people to use Bahasa Melayu ?
Looks like a lot of people in Malaysia needs a proper re-education after being hard-wired in the wrong way for decades by our self-serving government.
#34 by kwkean on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:44 am
The reason why we the non-Muslim being discriminate is thank to ourselves. Non of us come out and speak about this problem. Non of us dare to stand against all this discrimination. Did the parents launch a protest to this headmaster. Did they organize a special PIBG meeting to address this issue? Non of it I can said. If we choose to keep quiet then why are we complaining now?!!
Talk, talk, talk yet what did all of us do in the end??!! If the parents of SMK BUD4 are smart enough all this problems won’t arise at all. If the HM insist not to change and keep her stupidness attitude then bring this CASE TO THE COURT and send her a lawyer letter!! Why not? No money?? All non-Muslim parents can launch a donation campaign to collect enough money for the process. Do you think the Kementerian Pendidikan will help her? Lol, the moment the lawyer letter come, they will kick her out of her post rather then saving her. So did the parents try this out? NO, they choose to keep quiet!!
Another matter is to boycott all the activities launch by her, etc Hari Raya celebration or any of her Islam stuffs. Did the parents tell their children to do it? NO, they don’t. So why complaint when she won’t allow non-Islam activities to be done in the school??!!! Choosing to keep quiet is an ACT TO ENCOURAGE her to keep her stupidity on discriminating the non-Muslim.
#35 by boh-liao on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:45 am
Looks like our education system, even in schools in cities like PJ, is producing toads under the coconut shell.
On Valentine’s Day, SMK BUD4 students should perform a lion dance, to the sound of Chinese drums, for their beloved, narrow-minded HM. The lion can then present her with a large Valentine’s Day card and a pack of halal chocolates.
#36 by burn on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:45 am
finally, they have shown their true colors. multiracial konon!
mana tu kaki parti parti takdo telor pigi, MCA/MIC/GERAKAN! lu apa bikin, bikin itu telor palsu ka… kenapa membisu? atau buat dunno!
#37 by Tickler on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:48 am
Non of it I can said. If we choose to keep quiet then why are we complaining now?!! – kwkean
Maybe it is `fear`,- having been exposed to all the intimidation they become good `dhimmis`.
#38 by Libra2 on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:49 am
Frankly, If I am there I would have told THE HM off and in a loud voice!…smeagroo
Unfortunately, things don’t work that way here my friend. The feudal mentality is very strong among the Malays.
No subordinate will challenge his boss as he has much to lose. Don’t forget, a teacher’s future depends on the headmasters recommendation and no teacher will challenge his boss.
The boss can tell them that the world is flat and they will nod in agreement.
You have seen it all – how the Malays respect when someone is in power and then mock at him when he is retires from office.
ENazri mocked at Dr Mahathir and even newspapers don’t carry his speeches.
#39 by Tickler on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:54 am
IT IS LONG PAST time to bring the world’s attention to a global scandal.
Dhimmitude is the status that Islamic law, the Sharia, mandates for non-Muslims, primarily Jews and Christians. Dhimmis, “protected people,” are free to practice their religion in a Sharia regime, but are made subject to a number of humiliating regulations designed to enforce the Qur’an’s command that they “feel themselves subdued” (Sura 9:29). This denial of equality of rights and dignity remains part of the Sharia, and, as such, are part of the legal superstructure that global jihadists are laboring to restore everywhere in the Islamic world, and wish ultimately to impose on the entire human race.
If dhimmis complained about their inferior status, institutionalized humiliation, or poverty, their masters voided their contract and regarded them as enemies of Islam, fair game as objects of violence. Consequently, dhimmis were generally cowed into silence and worse. It was almost unheard-of to find dhimmis speaking out against their oppressors; to do so would have been suicide. For centuries dhimmi communities in the Islamic world learned to live in peace with their Muslim overlords by acquiescing to their subservience. Some even actively identified with the dominant class, and became strenuous advocates for it.
Spearheaded by dhimmi academics and self-serving advocacy groups, that same attitude of chastened subservience has entered into Western academic study of Islam, and from there into journalism, school textbooks, and the popular discourse. One must not point out the depredations of jihad and dhimmitude; to do so would offend the multiculturalist ethos that prevails everywhere today. To do so would endanger chances for peace and rapprochement between civilizations all too ready to clash.
http://jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/why-dhimmi.htm
#40 by smeagroo on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:55 am
I wont be surprised if these HMs rcvd orders from the top to behave in such manner. Slwoly if the others dont make noise and just keep quiet to their antics, the entire education system will turn into a muslim thingy and it will be too late by then.
About time the other parents stand up to what is rite, a school is no place for such extremisms.
If they need to send out a clear message to these buffaloes then so be it. Have a mass walk out from school in protest!
#41 by hasilox on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:58 am
This is another classic example on how our education are ruined. What kinda value is being imparted to the students here?
The stupid gov still wondering why people shun national schools. Still wondering why our students are not marketable in the job market. Bodoh indeed.
#42 by k1980 on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 11:01 am
Some time in the near future:—
As Dollah stood in front of St.Peter at the Pearly Gates, he saw a huge wall of clocks behind him. He asked, “What are all those clocks?”
St.Peter answered, “Those are Lie-Clocks. Everyone on Earth has a Lie-Clock. Every time you lie, the hands on your clock will move.”
“Oh,” said Dollah, “whose clock is that?”
“That’s Mother Teresa’s. The hands have never moved, indicating that she never told a lie.”
“Impressive,” said Dollah. “And whose clock is that one?”
St.Peter responded, “That’s Abraham Lincoln’s clock. The hands have moved twice, telling us that Abe told only two lies in his entire life.”
“What the hell, wait a minute, where’s my clock?” asked Dollah.
“Your clock is in Jesus’ office. He’s using it as a ceiling fan.”
#43 by oknyua on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 11:03 am
Mr Philip Yong, I am sharing my experience as a former PIBG com. member. Now it’s January. The next PIBG meeting must be held before April.
Document all the cases that you think should be brought against her. Present these as your agenda (usur-usur terbangkit). Make sure you as a parent is present during the AGM. Inform other parents about your intention. It is better not to be confrontational when you present your case.
If nothing is done, the next step is to highlight your case to the District Ed Department. Give a copy of your AGM materials to him with a covering letter and carbon-copied it to Hishamuddin.
That is the long and proper method. The short method is to bring the case to Court – but don’t forget, the decision can go either way.
Finally, this is the problem with most parents. They don’t attend the PIBG AGM.
#44 by kwkean on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 11:08 am
Libra2,
There are lots of way to kick all this people out even tough their bosses is sort of Taliban supporter. When money is involve, they can be silent down easily. Bring SMK BUD4 to the court and you will get to see how they change their attitude, same goes with Kerismuddin as well. Election is nearby so make use of this period.
Ask the parents of SMK BUD4 to contact YB LKS and organize a press conference to make this issue big. DO NOT KEEP SILENCE!! Show them that we are not easy to provoke!! [deleted]
Tickler, Fear is not the reason to keep quiet. Tell your elders, because of their stupidity ‘FEAR’ attitude, we the younger generation is suffering now! Are you gonna keep quiet untill the next generation suffer even more??!!
#45 by jus legitimum on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 11:10 am
Actually all these incidents of insensitivity are tip of the iceberg.If we were to make a survey,there will be more and more cases of insensitivity to surface and unfold in public throughout the length and width of Malaysia.The trouble is many non Malays are just silently swallowing and tolerating .Moreover they do not have channels to vent their dissatisfaction and anger.How many of them have access to the internet?Today I happened to read ‘Sin Chew’ carry a report made by YB Kit over the BU4 incident.What about other newspapers?Do they feature such news?However,we need to voice it out loud and clear so that our constitutional rights ‘hopefully’ will not be further eroded.
#46 by Toyol on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 11:11 am
Send her to Taliban land and all the others who think like her. We don’t need people like these in our multi-cultural country. No wonder we are left behind in the dark ages!
#47 by dawsheng on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 11:11 am
“But to their dismay the Principal rejected the proposal immediately by the reason that she is a Muslim and does not celebrate Valentine’s Day.”
Yep, when some muslims fart, it is through their mouth.
#48 by mauriyaII on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 11:15 am
The Education Ministry is not only aware of whatever is going on in schools but it has always given its tacit blessings to HMs who are willing to subvert the constitution and ministry directives. The Ministry officials and kerismuddin do not have what it takes to be men and counted.
I have heard from my wife who is a teacher in a secondary school what happens in her school. The HM would more often than not invoke that he is durian and all teachers are mentimun, meaning they only would get hurt in any confrontation. He had a penchant to create racial and religious issues. He even went to the extent to see if the chickens were slaughtered in the Islamic way. Imagine an educated guy going into the kitchen in a restaurant to inspect the slaughtered chickens’ neck before the dinner.
We used to invite all our friends irrespective of race, colour,religion or creed to celebrate festive occasions. We did not have problems until the mid seventies. Later the Muslims who visited would refuse to eat or drink from the plates or glasses saying that it is against their belief to partake food from utensils used by non-Muslims. They would ask for packet or bottled drinks. They would only eat food after verifying the food is halal.
Now we have completely stopped inviting them to any functions. We too do not attend any of their functions, not because we are intolerant but because we do not want to be embarrassed by their ‘holier than thou attitude’.
At all open houses during festive celebrations, food has to be cooked or catered by Muslims. Otherwise Muslims won’t attend the functions.
I dread to think of the situation in Malaysia in a few years’ time what with the Talibans slowly taking over the country. The present leadership will not lift a finger to rectify the situation because they are out to promote the Malay/Muslim agenda.
#49 by kwkean on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 11:22 am
oknyua, Court decision can go either way but the moment the lawyer letter come, the HM will start to ‘kelam-kabut’. That is enough to give her a warning that ‘kita orang bukan mudah dibulli’. Take an example how the songkok issue was solve by YB LKS recently. Because that issue was made public and big, that HM takut and take back his statement. How long we can keep that HM on his stand, we will never know but at least we show him a good fight and keep him obedient.
Even a media conference will have a big impact on that SMK BUD4 HM as she too will have to report to someone ABOVE her. She will then play by the rules said by Libra2’s comment. The parents of SMK BUD4 have to make their move now before serious impact is seen later on. Those who can help please give them a hand. YB LKS, we are counting on you in this issue. Send a signal to the stupid corrupted government that ‘RAKYAT PANTANG DICABAR’.
#50 by Phat-kor on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 11:36 am
Really, people here should just live on trees, eat potatoes and wear nothing but loin. Think our homosapiens back then are probably much more developed compared to us now.
The principal, parents involved,,,,,,I emphatise with you – you do not know how much you have disgraced yourselves and the nation.
#51 by smeagroo on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 11:42 am
Maybe the Edu head Hiiiiissssshamuddin wants the parents ot have a rally to prove a point before he put some sense back into his bunch of brainless HMs. Are the Head masters or HeadlessMasters?
#52 by bystander on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 12:06 pm
for those who dont have children studying in BU4 and are presumptious and prejudging like kwkean, fyi this is a new issue. it only started this year 2008. the students had talent how, cheerleading, lion dance in 2007. this religious bigot is imposing the ban from 2008 as she was just transferred last year from sabah. so pls dont jump the gun accusing parents of BU4 not taking action. pls have your facts before shooting your mouth.
#53 by DarkHorse on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 12:07 pm
Chong Zhemin,
Article 152 is not relevant to the situation here.
The said Article governs the use of Malay in Parliament, in our courts and the use of English in court proceedings.
Article 12(3) works to ensure that no one is forced into receiving instruction, participate in a ceremony or act of worship of a religion not that of his or her own.
Forcing non-Muslim students to recite Koranic verses during school assembly would come within the ambit of this Article. Showing respect to an act of worship by others of a different religion certainly does not come within its ambit.
#54 by Abraham on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 12:09 pm
I personally think the best way to deal this matter is to publicise this lady HM’s name in this blog. Let all the readers of this blog to now her name. By doing so, I am sure someone will eventiually alert /ask this lady HM to read this blog. To avoid any further humilation, I believe she may reverse her decisions.
#55 by malaysiatoday.com on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 12:13 pm
melurian says true, he should speak in bm coz this is malaysia. salute that muslim parent.
===========
Why malay muslims still use arabic language in prayers after all this is Malaysia?
Malay shall set a good example to use BM in every facet of life? Why they forget to use BM in their prayers?
This extreme headmister may asking non-muslims to “potong” after all this is Malaysia with BM is official language and Islam is official religion.
#56 by malaysiatoday.com on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 12:18 pm
I think the parents and students must organize a demostration to voice out their grievances.
#57 by DarkHorse on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 12:53 pm
“Why malay muslims still use arabic language in prayers after all this is Malaysia?”
The Malays learn the Koran by rote i.e. reciting Koranic verses without understanding them. They feel the Koran should not be translated because of the fear that verses would lose some of their meaning when translated – lost in translation.
Also it is the language of the Prophet.
#58 by Evenmind on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 12:54 pm
The Gomen is always trying to mislead the world thro adverts in BBC/CNN by means of thier propoganda song Malaysia truly “ASIA”, they potray themselves as saints when the opposite is happening in reality., do they know the meaning of multi racial/multi cultural or our existence is here is just in the song only.How much more hippocrite can they be? There is movie called the perfect storm, in their case they are the Perfect Hippocrites. FULL STOP
#59 by Tickler on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 1:23 pm
In 2005, Puin published a collection of articles under the title, Die dunklen Anfange. Neue Forschungen zur Entstehung und fruhen Geschichte des Islam (“The dark beginnings: new research on the origin and early history of Islam,” Hans Schiller Verlag, 2005). This drew on the work of the pseudonymous German philologist “Christoph Luxenburg”, who sought to prove that incomprehensible passages in the Koran were written in Syriac-Aramaic rather than Arabic.
http://www.malaysia-today.net/2008/content/view/1195/46/
#60 by NAR2645 on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 1:26 pm
Abraham: personally think the best way to deal this matter is to publicise this lady HM’s name in this blog. Let all the readers of this blog to now her name//
Yes, Please do it, as I feel that this is a good way, to deter other “little napleons” from misbehaving.
#61 by RGRaj on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 1:28 pm
As a Muslim, the headmistress is religiously obliged to implement Islamic principals on her charges, Muslim or no.
But this doesn’t mean the affected parents should take this lying down. I wouldn’t.
#62 by oknyua on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 1:34 pm
We try to find the best ways to help the students in this school. Jus legitiumum and Abraham suggested to publicise the case and name of the HM. Public protest is another suggestion by a few others.
In line with what we Bystander informed us, that this HM had just been transfered from Sabah, I suppose the best way is to publicise this case in the papers.
“Failure to understand the needs of adherents of other religions and denying them the rights runs counter to the spirit of the Federal Constitution.” Prime Minister, 2007.
Over to you YB Lim.
#63 by Godfather on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 1:41 pm
This is an isolated case of ‘Napoleonism” in that the principal herself decided to change certain things based on her principles and beliefs. I don’t think that it has been condoned by the Ministry of Education. There are obvious grounds of appeal e.g. writing to PIBG, the DG of MOE, etc. And of course, attending the next PIBG to let your voice be heard is as important.
We must all understand that under the Badawi regime, ol’ Big Ears thought that he was in the forefront of the biggest revolution since the Mahathir era. He thought that the opening up of “freedom” and the empowering of the chain of command to make decisions would compare him favourably against Mahathir. [Very recently, in one meeting which a friend of mine attended, Badawi was asked how come so many things are not moving forward in Bolehland, despite his constant promises of getting things done. His answer was “But I already approved all of these.” In truth, he had forgotten for some cases, and he had not followed up at all on the rest of the cases.]
There is no system of command, no system of accountability, no system of responsibility. Everybody makes their own decisions, and it is just too bad if it does not conform with the national objective. Badawi doesn’t supervise his ministers, his ministers don’t supervise their DGs, their DGs don’t supervise their senior officers, their senior officers don’t supervise the others down the line. Even the despatch riders are not supervised anymore, with the “openness” that is being encouraged by Badawi. And every month, the civil service gets paid on time.
This is the sad state of affairs in Bolehland under this inept regime. Badawi probably modelled himself after Deng XiaoPing who proclaimed “Let a thousand flowers bloom” in the 80s to open up China, but sadly, Bolehland is already stinking from the rot of flowers indiscriminately thrown around.
#64 by anti-racism on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 2:05 pm
melurian says true, he should speak in bm coz this is malaysia. salute that muslim parent.
________________________________________
Although this is Malaysia but knowing English in this developing world is important. I’ve notice Malays in Malaysia today,they communicate in Malay and Malay only. How are they going to face the developed world if they can’t speak a word of English?
#65 by 9to5 on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 2:28 pm
I have read somewhere that this school, being sited in an affluent area, has a majority of 85% non-malays.
Could it be that the malay HM is intent in retarding the culture, progress and creativity of the non-malays? It is strange indeed that anyone would discourage talents and marketability of its students. In doing so, the balance of the 15% malays are also affected negatively.
That’s the fallout of UMNO NEP and ketuanan melayu policies. Because of these policies, people are put into important positions not because of their competencies but their skin colour. These people are just not competent and because of that, people of all races, malays included, suffered through the lack of knowledge, creativity, service, etc.
We have incompetent and corrupt ministers, directors, officers who are put there because of their skin colour steal from the rakyat of all races or cause the country to lose money. In government hospitals, immigration departments, police departments, city councils, etc people of all races have to wait for hours to be served and face mounting red tapes and bureaucracies just because the administrators not of the best calibre are being promoted. We have CEOs of large GLC who are placed there not because of their calibres but colour cause the companies to lose monies big time so much so the companies have to be bailed out using the monies of the rakyat comprising of all races.
Rakyat of all races have to pay high prices for the purchase of cars, usage of water, electricity, internet, tolls, airfares, bus tickets, etc, etc, all because the people who manage these companies must come from a certain race and not because they are the best in their line of work!
In the end all races have to suffer because of this interference going against the law of nature.
#66 by sheriff singh on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 3:48 pm
Can someone post up her photo so we can see what this “Little Napoleoness” looks like? Anyone got her bio?
#67 by beedavid on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 5:05 pm
This HM came with a feared reputation. True to fears she has now instilled all these blockades which would otherwise make life in BUD4 enjoyable. Thankfully my daughter is in Form 5 and hopefully she can last the year there without encountering much nonsense. If so, I may have to yank her out and put her in a private school. I empathise with the majority non-Malay non-Muslim student population who has to put up with her unpopular rules. To think I almost wanted to transfer another daughter to this school…shudder the thought. Not in a million years with this HM on board.
I am in agreement with most of the comments posted but does anyone really believe this HM will log in here and read them. I think a formal protest must be made if things are getting intolerable there in BUD4. I hope some of the school’s PIBG committee members or teachers are reading this and if you do, kindly convey our ‘regards’ to this HM.
#68 by beedavid on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 5:07 pm
I also think that Sdr Lim Kit Siang being a champion of human rights as he is for most of us should voice this in his usual channels… Sdr Lim????
#69 by oknyua on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 5:20 pm
Sheriff singh, people are already in the other thread in front.
But I don’t want to see her face lah. If she is beautiful, I will start thinking all beautiful ladies are Napoleoness. If she is ugly, I will think all ugly ladies are also Napoleoness. (Take this as a joke).
Anyway all the commentators have moved to the other thread.
#70 by malaysiatoday.com on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 7:08 pm
RGRaj Says:
Today at 13: 28.21 (5 hours ago)
As a Muslim, the headmistress is religiously obliged to implement Islamic principals on her charges, Muslim or no.
But this doesn’t mean the affected parents should take this lying down. I wouldn’t.
==================
This is exactly the mindset of Malaysian Taliban.
This is secular school for all races, not your religious schools to produce potential suicide bombers, converting non-muslims, extremists, etc.
What happen if headmasters/misters from christian, buddhist, hindu, etc. also wanted to impose their values on muslim students under the disguise of religious obligation?
#71 by Yong Chee keong on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 7:15 pm
Want to improve Malay by reading the Bible also cannot because Government confiscate all malay bible from Indonesia because of the word Allah.
How to improve like that?
Now non-Malays should not sing State Anthems that have the word Allah.
Malays-Muslims cannot sing negaraku because the word there is Tuhan.
#72 by malaysiatoday.com on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 7:27 pm
DarkHorse Says:
The Malays learn the Koran by rote i.e. reciting Koranic verses without understanding them. They feel the Koran should not be translated because of the fear that verses would lose some of their meaning when translated – lost in translation.
Also it is the language of the Prophet.
===
Reading Koran in arabic language may reduce translation error, but using malay in prayers shall be encouraged because people like me handicapped in arabic language (of course many malays also) bombarded with non-stop prayers can apprehend their meaning.
God does not prefer arabic language as Islamic official language. I believe Prophet Muhamad even encouraged muslims to learn chinese language as a tool of learning new knowledge from China.
#73 by DarkHorse on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 8:41 pm
It is not peculiar to Malaysia and the Malays as Muslims. The call to prayers heard all over the world from China to Africa to Europe and the United States is always in Arabic – the language of the Koran.
The Bible was originally in Hebrew, then translated to Greek and to English. Today there are King James Bible (KJB), the international version )KIV) Bible and a number of other translations. The Catholics use a Bible which has extra chapters than say KJB. Something is lost amidst all that translation.
The Bible is a compilation of some 26 books(?). The Koran is believed to be the words of God as delivered to the Prophet.
#74 by DarkHorse on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 8:47 pm
The Torah is in Hebrew a language spoken by Jews. Do you see translation of the Torah into another language? Being Jewish is to be part of a religious community. You can embrace Judaism but that does not make you a Jew. When you die they bury you in a non-Jewish cemetery even though your wife who was a Jew has earlier been buried in a Jewish cemetery.
I give you the facts. You can be your own judge.
#75 by Student4 on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 8:56 pm
If this continue, what will happen during Teacher Days?
1. Some student attack HM. (worst case senario)
2. one student stand up, start complain, cause an uproar in school.
3. Nobody ponteng school during that day.
4. all student except muslim tranfers school.
For every action, there is a reaction. Think before cause distrust in leadership in school.
#76 by alaneth on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 9:18 pm
All that happened and our Education Minister did nothing.
Imagine the worst if he is to take power some day as DPM & eventually PM…
Anwar as a previous Education Minister is so much better & respects all races & religions. He even quoted some good teachings of Confucius in a speech in UPM.
In the coming General Elections – I will definately vote for a party which upholds the rights of all Malaysians! I will continue my support for Anwar & DAP.
#77 by The Black Owl on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 9:45 pm
the new principle went to the canteen operator and told him that he was chinese, and she being an islam, is not supposed to eat his food?obviously if he’s providing food for us, his food is halal ryte?and if she’s so against eating food made by chinese, she can always go to the stall that the malay lady is in charge of and eat nasi lemak, nasi goreng and blablabla.dont eat what she dont want la.
#78 by jlshyang on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 9:56 pm
That debate about speaking English or BM is ridiculous. Blind patriotism. You need to be multilingual to live in this increasingly borderless and competitive world. Luckily, i have many progressive Malay friends who are against this ‘speak BM because this is Malaysia rationale’.
It is an advantage to know more languages. Malaysian Chinese are not born to speak Mandarin either. Why the cry of discrimination when companies put Mandarin as a requirement. That is something practical to do, China is booming, knowing Mandarin is an advantage.
I come from a national school and i don’t know any Mandarin but i know Mandarin is increasingly important. I am learning Mandarin now. Come on, don’t be naive and think the world revolves around Malaysia. It is no wonder such people are often not competitive in any field they enter, just rely on your government for contracts and money la. They don’t require you to speak any other language other than BM what. So be it.
You will only let your future generations suffer. Katak di bawah tempurung idiots la those ppl.
#79 by ylk001 on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:01 pm
I think the many cases of Malay Muslims unfairly asserting themselves and harassing non-Malay and non-Muslims in schools that came through the news is only the tip of the ice-berg.
I have my own story to relate and I hear of many more from others in Malaysia. My child used to attend a local school not too long ago. I have since put my child in a faraway school overseas at great expense and inconvenience. It tears my heart to have to do this but with our dilapidated education system, my other options are limited.
I do not mind all the doa and Islamic preaching stuff at assemblies and classrooms in school and the too many incompetent teachers who spend a tremendous among of time out of the classroom in numerous kursus during term time; the last straw was when they gathered a group of students in a classroom in pretext of a “motivasi” class and showed them graphics picture of the Iraq war – heads decapitated and bullet ridden bodies. Some students got emotional, frightened and cried and my child being the hardier type just looked, shocked. The speaker who is some religious person from some mosque scolded my child and a few other Chinese and Indians for being irreligious (i.e. non-Muslim) and immoral because they do not know how to pray to Allah. What are we teaching our children? I hope this is not the Islam religion as potrayed by this person. Islam is suppose to be peaceful and loving and just but what I am seeing in the actions of many of its followers in this country is just the opposite. What am I to think?
A group of us parents went to confront the headmaster but he was too cowardly to see us but sent his Chinese assistant instead. This should have gone into the news as well but I guess Star and NST where I wrote to was too cowardly to publish this.
I only hope our education system has left enough of our young people’s intelligence untouched to vote out this half past six government. They have allowed so much of the extremisms we have seen in the past two years to go unchecked in the first place.
Pak Lah … sudah lah. Cukup. Rakyat sekarang tak muhibbah and tak senang hati. Kalau tak rela mimpin dengan baik dan adil, sila turun.
#80 by dranony on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 10:24 pm
Darkhorse, your comment on Jan 17, 2008 at 20:41.14
http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/01/17/more-about-smk-bud4-3/#comment-70540
shows a terrible understanding of the Bible.
I have no intention on engaging in a debate on the Bible with you here, but just wish to caution you that your remarks on the defects or deficiencies of the Bible, may attract reciprocal comments on other holy books, including your own.
I suggest we DON’T go down this road.
Upholding the principle of respectful reciprocity, ie expecting others to accept only what you would accept in return or if the situation were reversed, LET’S ALL return to the topic of this thread, ie the outrageous actions of HM of SMK BUD4, which are insensitive and lacking in mutual respect and mutual understanding.
#81 by DarkHorse on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 11:05 pm
Yes, I tend to agree with you. But which part of my comments suggest to you that I’m grossly deficient in the knowledge of the Bible?
#82 by DarkHorse on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 11:06 pm
ooops make that ‘about the Bible’ rather than ‘of the Bible’ thanks.
#83 by lhteoh on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 11:12 pm
School children are being brain washed over the last 10, 15 years and is getting worst now. Previously these issues were not made public and sweep under the carpet. Imagine what will happen when more and more of these younger generations that were not guided correctly in school completed their education and coming out into society. It is a time bomb waiting to happen!!!!!!!!!!!! Come this GE, I hope all parents will vote for the oppositions for the sake of their children and grand children.
#84 by DarkHorse on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 11:14 pm
Isn’t the Christian Bible not a single book but an anthology, a collection of many small books – some of them 4,000 years old and written by many writers at different times? Who wrote the Bible is still a mystery.
#85 by DarkHorse on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 11:30 pm
Am I wrong about the Bible comprising some 26 books or should it be 66 books – 39 books referred to as the Old Testament and 27 books referred to as the New Testament?
#86 by kwkean on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 11:38 pm
# bystander Says:
Today at 12: 06.56 (11 hours ago)
for those who dont have children studying in BU4 and are presumptious and prejudging like kwkean, fyi this is a new issue. it only started this year 2008. the students had talent how, cheerleading, lion dance in 2007. this religious bigot is imposing the ban from 2008 as she was just transferred last year from sabah. so pls dont jump the gun accusing parents of BU4 not taking action. pls have your facts before shooting your mouth.
——
New issue? Which part of the world you are living?? It is new to that school but is it new in our country? No wonder we keep being marginalize by UMNO and it’s ‘penyangak’ thanks to people like you and your ignorance attitude. I don’t need you to teach me how to see this issue. If the parents had taken their action, why do they still want to complaint at the 1st place. Learn my boy, this world is not as naive as you.
#87 by Count Dracula on Thursday, 17 January 2008 - 11:41 pm
Boys, we don’t need another limkamput here!
#88 by BlackEye on Friday, 18 January 2008 - 12:22 am
Who is Limkamput?
#89 by chgchksg128 on Friday, 18 January 2008 - 12:43 am
Human like that …..she should shame as a muslim…..Allah shame with this kind of follower taht dont know to respect the others
#90 by dranony on Friday, 18 January 2008 - 7:56 am
Darkhorse, I don’t suggest that we go down the road of discussing the merits of one holy book versus another, at least not in this forum.
I’d be pleased to introduce you to resources where you can find out more, though, if you are so inclined.
btw, there is no KJB. there is no KIV.
Do conduct more research, and read about them yourself.
Truth will set you free.
#91 by damient on Friday, 18 January 2008 - 6:33 pm
Melurian, may i know then why are you not posting your question in malay?
it’s kinda ironic isn’t it?
#92 by DarkHorse on Saturday, 19 January 2008 - 3:09 am
“btw, there is no KJB. there is no KIV.
Do conduct more research, and read about them yourself.
Truth will set you free.” dranoy
KJB stands for King James Bible and NIV stands for New International Version.
I show a “terrible understanding of the Bible” because you fail to read what KJB stands for? (KIV should read NIV – typo error).
What have I said here that leads you to your conclusion:
“The Bible was originally in Hebrew, then translated to Greek and to English. Today there are King James Bible (KJB), the international version )KIV) Bible and a number of other translations. The Catholics use a Bible which has extra chapters than say KJB. Something is lost amidst all that translation.
The Bible is a compilation of some 26 books(?). The Koran is believed to be the words of God as delivered to the Prophet.”
I am curious to know.
#93 by dranony on Saturday, 19 January 2008 - 9:25 am
Darkhorse,
King James Bible is referred to as KJV Bible, not KJB.
There is no KIV, but there is a NIV, which I’m sure you’ve googled by now. Typo, perhaps? The letters “K” and “N” are not juxtaposed on the keyboard. Since you did not state “New International Version,” I ‘d thought you may not have known that it is called that, leading you to not use “N”IV. My apologies if you did know it.
The Bible is not made up of 26 books. Typo again, perhaps? Sorry for my thinking otherwise earlier.
The Bible is also God-inspired, according to Christian tradition.
Interestingly, Sura 29:46 of the Quran seems to imply that the Scriptures of the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) are also to be believed, just as the Quran is to be believed.
“We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is one and the same; to Him we are submitters.”
peace be unto you. (hope PakLah doesn’t decide that it is illegal for me to say that!)
#94 by kaybeegee on Saturday, 19 January 2008 - 9:42 am
Darkhorse, you must be a believer of the Koran and what it stands for. Try not to indulge in commenting on other peoples’ scriptures unless you are prepared to expose the shortcomings of your holy book as seen by people who chose not to believe in your holy book.
You and the Guru Besars of many schools who read the Koran are now answering your religion’s call to propagate your religion amongst us Kafirs(proud to be one) and our children. May I ask you, if your God whose name I cant mention is Almighty why than are we born Muslim and non Muslim? not to forget that here in Bolihland the corrupt and the non corrupt? The bumis and the non bumis,? Why? Why not your Almighty God just make everybody born immediately a Muslim? Yes you will say we are all born Muslims, but why does your God make us have to go through life to seek your God out whilst you born privileged dont have to?
It is nice to have a later book because you have seen what was before your book? Just as we can now sit down and criticise or review all BOOKs that have been written? Yes my non Muslim mind can read books of other religions, yours?
#95 by dranony on Saturday, 19 January 2008 - 10:08 am
guys, this is NOT the proper forum for this…
Let’s NOT go down this road…
Do not debate… do not argue…
least of all here.
#96 by kaybeegee on Saturday, 19 January 2008 - 1:43 pm
dranony. What has to be said has to be said.
It is related to the issue. Guru Besars trying to impose their values on others. And it all has to do with religion. They cant be seen to be encouraging values which are not the same as theirs.
But we keep our discussion healthy.
I too have complaints to make about the way Guru Besars are running our schools but since I cant change the system, I try to mitigate the damage that they do to my children’s minds.
We reinforce our religious values to our kids each night.
We remind them that every time there is a doa selamat, they are to say the Lord’s Prayer.Every time there is a talk in school on any religion which is not ours they listen one ear and out another.
My kids are taught to respect other religions and also those who choose not to have religions.
Can the Guru Besars do this in school?
This is where we find out from discussion the mind set and mentality of our civil servants and fellow Malaysians. Let there be discussion and debate. After all which sermon of any religion in propogating itself does not condemn the other? The discussion whether KJB or Koran is healthy. I am prepared to open my religious book and invite another to discuss but allow me to have two way traffic.
#97 by Colonel on Monday, 21 January 2008 - 7:14 am
I think you guys got it wrong. DarkHorse is Christian. He said so earlier.
#98 by Colonel on Monday, 21 January 2008 - 7:26 am
dranony,
So poster is mistaken about initials and number of books in the Bible. So what is your point??
Darkhorse made some observations, not judgments etc and you said he has “a terrible understanding” of the Bible implying that you have a better understanding. But yet your only claim to a better understanding is to say he is wrong about initials and number of books!
He is not going down any road like you suggest but merely responding to an earlier post! Since he is Christian and presumably you are too, then it is not a clash of religions. Why are you calling posters “not to go down this road” What road are you talking about?
#99 by BoDo Singh on Monday, 21 January 2008 - 7:53 am
Bible is not one book, but a compilation of 27 and 39 books if I’m not mistaken. Doubt if dranony knows that.
#100 by BoDo Singh on Monday, 21 January 2008 - 7:58 am
“The Bible is a compilation of some 26 books(?).” DarkHorse
DarkHorse did put a question mark after 26. [deleted]
#101 by Student4 on Monday, 21 January 2008 - 3:44 pm
Saying Lion dance noisy it is totally unreasonable. Lion Dance only once a year(last about 1 hours or so), compare to muslim mosque 365 days a year, 7 days a week, 5 times a day. If each times takes 3 minutes to berdoa multiply 5 times multiply 365 days which is about 5475 minutes, 91.25 hours, 4 days continuosly with a very loud loudspeaker. It will drive all other races mad.
#102 by kaybeegee on Monday, 21 January 2008 - 5:49 pm
Darkhorse, my apologies.
#103 by kaybeegee on Monday, 21 January 2008 - 5:51 pm
Student4. it is the call to prayer. I wonder how it was like during the Prophet Mohammed’s time? Before electricity.
Saudara ShamsulAnnuar, can enlighten us?