Tan Sri Mohd Isa Samad’s victory in the Bagan Pinang by-election was not unexpected, as in the by-election, Isa the candidate bulked larger than Barisan Nasional the party.
This is the cause for the comment that BN can win the battle in Bagan Pinang by-election but will lose the war in the country in the next general elections, for Isa’s victory despite his record of Umno money politics would be a clear and unmistakable message that Umno/BN could not be redeemed or reformed to play any meaningful role to cleanse the country of deep-rooted corruption.
What was unexpected was Isa’s 8,013-vote and thumping majority of 5,435 votes sweeping all the eight voting streams – the result of gross abuses of power, money politics as well as the postal ballot chicanery.
The rout suffered by Pakatan Rakyat in Bagan Pinang by-election should destroy the myth entertained by any quarter that Pakatan Rakyat is embarked on a invincible path to victory in the next general elections whether national or state.
With the rout in Bagan Pinang, Pakatan Rakyat must go back to the drawing board and address the many issues bedevilling the coalition but which had been swept under the carpet, aggravating public concerns about its unity, discipline, cohesion, viability and sustainability as the alternative of the Barisan Nasional for federal power in Putrajaya.
For a start, Pakatan Rakyat leaders must stop being shy about the need to demonstrate discipline and common sense of purpose at all levels of Pakatan Rakyat as well as have the courage to admit and to resolve any crisis of confidence undermining public support for the coalition.
#1 by All For The Road on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 1:13 pm
The loss in Bagan Pinang was not unexpected. It is the squabbles among PR coalition partners of PKR, DAP and PAS that gave the seat easily to BN and UMNO in particular. PAS seems to be the biggest culprit with its distasteful outbursts and unwarranted comments and statements against its partners, especially the DAP. PR supporters and sympathisers are fed up with PAS antics and tantrums.
Pakatan Rakyat must bucked up and its leaders should take stock of the prevailing situation, or going to Putrajaya will remain a dream and be buried forever.
Quo vadis Pakatan Rakyat?
#2 by lkt-56 on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 1:17 pm
Yes that’s what PR need to do. Go back to the drawing board IMMEDIATELY. A word of ancient wisdom from Lao Zi:
Knowledge and Humility
Knowing others is wisdom;
Knowing the self is enlightenment.
Mastering others requires force;
Mastering the self requires strength;
He who knows he has enough is rich.
Perseverance is a sign of will power.
He who stays where he is endures.
To die but not to perish is to be eternally present.
#3 by peter sng on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 1:18 pm
It could be a blesssing in disguise for Pas to be humble in this defeat at BP.
With the like of Hassan Ali and other mavericks the non-malays are still not convince about the sincerity of Pas top leadership regarding hudud and other Islamic laws and its applications that will afffect them. Better now than if and when Pas win the majority seats for PR in GE13.
The take home message is not to take the support of the voters in GE12 for granted.
#4 by sheriff singh on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 1:36 pm
“…..public concerns about its unity, discipline, cohesion, viability and sustainability as the alternative of the Barisan Nasional….”
You all know it all along so do something about it. PR brought out its big cannons in Bagan Pinang but can only fire blanks. So what can we expect in 2012 or 2013?
Many PR leaders might have left the scene by then, gone senile or too old to do anything, behind bars etc etc. What are your alternatives?
Can you and should you continue to depend on mavericks, loose cannons, “little Napoleons”, volatile and fickle minded voting minorities to lead your challenge and win?
Lets face it. BN has the advantage of incumbency and has all the apparatus at its disposal. It need not fight fair as the stakes are too high. They want to enjoy the good life.
So do all the soul searchings you need but get rid of all the problem people within PR so you have a united team. Have a common platform and have clean, healthy, fresh talents, not riff-raffs and dungus who bend with the winds and have their own agendas.
Else, forget about 2012. According to some, it will be the end of the world.
#5 by jamalmalikslumdog on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 1:39 pm
Let the PKR coalition partners do their soul searching and find out what’s wrong. With the mainstream media doing their national service for BN, one never know if their reports about PAS are true or false although I am incline to believe that some of the PAS leaders feet got too big for their shoes.
Sometimes, it is better to learn early the mistakes made. It is now PAS responsibility to address those cowboys within their parties. Failing which, we will have to wait beyond GE13.
#6 by lkt-56 on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 1:41 pm
The weakness of PR is in their ability to work on common grounds while staying tolerant and accepting their differences. There is also a failure rein in the few trouble makers. That’s right… do not be shy to discipline and KNOCK common sense into such loose canons from within.
Good Luck!
#7 by ablastine on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 1:44 pm
The Pakatan will have a hard time in winning control of the Federal Government in the next election as long as UMNO continue to use their stooges in PAS to stir up trouble. We should know who they are by now unless one is really blind. This is the strongest weapon UMNO has and the traitors in PAS will not show themselves until they have returned UMNO to power in the next election, just like in Perak. Do not underestimate UMNO as they are masters of lies and deceit. If PAS does not split to get rid of these traitors in their midst you will see more of them using their trademark fanatical brand of Islam to cause trouble and confusion in Pakatan. The only way UMNO to win is to allow Pakatan to hang themselves and that an be easily done using their many moles in the organisation to stir up trouble and discord.
#8 by Godfather on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 1:46 pm
It isn’t the end of the world. UMNO will now be innundated with tainted members wanting to contest on the grounds that they have the money to buy their way – and Najib will have a hard time keeping them at bay since he has already given a 2nd chance to Isa.
This “victory” will ensure that there is no reform within UMNO. Tainted individuals like Mike Tyson, Tengku Adnan, etc will want to make a comeback, and with the money they have at their disposal, they will win their seats. As someone said, PR needs better co-ordination, and less bickering. For GE13, we need to just sit tight and not make any mistakes that could be harped upon by the mainstream press. Continue to govern wisely in the 4 states, and with the rural population continuing to have better access to the alternative media, PR’s time will come.
#9 by undertaker888 on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 1:53 pm
is there any PR volunteer corp that existed where ordinary citizen like us can contribute in terms of time and efforts for PR to prepare for the next GE?
#10 by ibat on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 2:05 pm
Godfather,
tainted candidate did not worry the voters in BP. tainted umno has been no problem for 5 decades. Because hungry people think short term when money is in sight. That’s been BN modus operandi. This will not change by GE13. But PR can win GE13 – without PAS! They are too far off the pole to fit in either PR or BN. PAS should go it alone and contest in all seats – PAS is for All!. Good luck to them. PKR and DAP better come up with manifesto that can convince people not to sell their vote to the highest bidder! And do not forget to straighten up the electoral rolls, the postal votes, and illegal campaigning.
#11 by kenghuei on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 2:21 pm
Very well-written YB Lim! While we acknowledge Isa’s guaranted victory here and take this as a win for BN Umno corruption, let’s also look at Pakatan’s own backyard.. certainly, there are many issues need immediate attention and improvement! As Bridget Welsh wrote before the by-election, if PR lost, it is a sign that it cannot penetrate new areas….. Read Moreso the road to Putrajaya is no where imminent.
Just a thought, if PR were to have fielded a powerful iconic candidate like Anwar, Hadi or Nik Aziz.. could there have been a challenge? :)
#12 by newchief on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 2:35 pm
pas lost to isa for lots of reasons:
1) pas ever-proud ego personnels especially the youth side trying to down-play or belittle its other component allies (pkr and dap especially)
2) the chief who appointed Omar as candidate MADE A BIG MISTAKE because this guy has a 3 times LOST TRACK RECORD and for some reasons only known to him, he is ALREADY a very un-popoular guy to the bp voters.
3) pas+pkr+dap is considered ILLEGAL because it has NOT REGISTERED ITSELF with roc….the delay of registering shows the in-effectiveness of the team to come to a concensus so does pk blame the voters if they feel pk is very insecure???
4) pk should work as a team to show deciplines on the ‘traitors or truoble makers irrespectable of from where they come from. we the rakyat do not need a WEAK GOVERNMENT …. remember the sleeping badawi and has pk learnt anything from that ???
5) hot-shots going to bp campaigning on the very last minute. most probably, isa has already give out sacks of goodies while pk can only give hand-shakes.
6) incidents like cow head, penang squatters, kedah pig sites and the in-famous perak power grab shows weak pk adminstration. again, we say, we don’t need WEAK GOVERNMENT…we have no choice but to accept a CORRUPT GOVERNMENT which is STRONG INSTEAD!!!
7) its always turun padang by pk when only elections are round the corner and not at all times to be near the people to understand and trying to solve their problems.
8) no strong visions of developments or commitments by pk for the rakyat except bashing the opponents weaknesses. the rakyat knows what umno did or do but the rakyat NEEDS TO KNOW WHAT PK WILL DO if they want us to put them there!!!
The above should serve as a wake-up call for pk. nothing is considered impossible for pk to become the next government if the above are dealt with and has convinced the rakyat to take a chance on pk to control the golden goose which sits in the federal .
#13 by k1980 on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 2:36 pm
From http://maverickysm.blogspot.com/2009/10/bayi-story-blind-boy.html
A blind boy sat on the steps of a building with a hat by his feet.
He held up a sign which said:
“I am blind, please help.”
There were only a few coins in the hat.
A man was walking by.
He took a few coins from his pocket and dropped them into the hat.
He then took the sign, turned it around, and wrote some works.
He put the sign back so that everyone who walked by would see the new words.
Soon the hat began to fill up.
A lot more people were giving money to the blind boy.
That afternoon the man who had changed the sign came to see how things were.
The boy recognized his footsteps and asked, “Were you the one who changed my sign this morning? What did you write?”
The man said, “I only wrote the truth. I said what you said but in a different way. What he had written says:
“Today is a beautiful day and I cannot see it.”
Weren’t the first sign and the second sign saying the same thing?
Both signs told people the boy was blind.
The first sign simply said the boy was blind. The second sign told people they were so lucky that they were not blind.
Moral of the story: Some people are darn stupid. Be thankful that you are not like them.
#14 by OrangRojak on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 2:43 pm
is there any PR volunteer corp
PR doesn’t exist. That’s PR’s #1 problem. Perhaps DAP, PKR and PAS ought to just take a deep breath and start a single party platform for a win at the next General Election. The Election Commission seems to have developed a master plan that reflects your greatest weakness. BN are ready to exploit the rakyat’s greatest weakness – they can’t walk past a dropped ringgit.
Just start the “New Start for Malaysia” party, promise to give all Malaysians several thousand free ringgits per household per year, unleash the media, outlaw institutional racism and put a cap on political party assets. With UMNO, MCA, MIC etc effectively illegal and bankrupt, and Malaysians in receipt of the money they crave (until they spend it in your friends’ shops), and the worst bigots being hounded by journalists, it should be an easy ride.
What’s so difficult? Oh yes. You wouldn’t be DAP any more. I bet that stings.
#15 by Bigjoe on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 2:48 pm
Certaintly, there is a need for PR to get rid of the infighting, the poor discipline, the betrayal within, etc..
The truth is even if PR did not have the infighting, the poor discipline etc… Isa would still have won perhaps by a lesser majority but still he would win..
PR need not only to be more cohesive, if it wish to strike at the heart of BN, it need to find a way for BN to fight among themselves – a fracture if you will either within UMNO or within BN.. It does not matter.. And its not impossible… UMNO, BN is bound together by common greed and self-interest NOT ideology. The only ideology the warlords share is that they will not do better by leaving BN/UMNO…
Either PR find a way to restrict the largesse that they can spread among themselves OR they encourage hoarding by some within that slowly those on the fringe gets sidelined and eventually breaks off. Its going to happen, PR need to find a way to quicken it up…
#16 by yhsiew on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 3:27 pm
There is still hope for PR. Malaysiakini reported that many people in Bagan Pinang were UNWILLING to vote for BN. They finally voted Isa because they thought Isa deserved their support due to the generous assistance given to them when they were in difficulty.
#17 by cintanegara on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 3:35 pm
Voters of Bagan Pinang are smart enough to deny PR a victory. …..For PAS, please wake up and does not fall into the trap and easily manipulated by your ‘partners’ …. Voters of Bagan Pinang y have sent a clear and unmistakable message …Don’t ever question their rights….Spirit of NEP must live on… Congrats Tan Sri Isa
#18 by Godfather on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 3:56 pm
Cintanegara: is it the spirit of NEP or spirit of 1Malaysia ? Please make up your fickle mind.
#19 by limkamput on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 3:59 pm
//What was unexpected was Isa’s 8,013-vote and thumping majority of 5,435 votes sweeping all the eight voting streams – the result of gross abuses of power, money politics as well as the postal ballot chicanery.//Kit
Sdr Lim, you are a politician, so perhaps it is difficult for you to say frankly and openly. If there are abuses of power, there must be willing parties loved to be abused. If there are money politics and postal ballot chicanery, there must be people who loved to be bribed or who do not know the truth worth of their votes. Ultimately, it is the majority of the electorates that must be enlightened and educated. There must be ways to let them see more directly how their standard of living and quality of life are being undermined through gross inefficiency, incompetency and corruption. There must be more down to earth “bread and butter” issues rather than endless “sophisticated” issues like the independence of judiciary, separation of power and university ranking.
//For a start, Pakatan Rakyat leaders must stop being shy about the need to demonstrate discipline and common sense of purpose at all levels of Pakatan Rakyat as well as have the courage to admit and to resolve any crisis of confidence undermining public support for the coalition.//Kit
Yes, most appropriately. I think PR must stop indulging in endless and useless party philosophies and concentrate more on bread and butter issues. For example why endless Islamic or secular state, canning or not canning, drinking or not drinking, covered up or not covered up? Can we not stop talking about all these and just concentrate on how to improve the quality of life of common folks. Get them to see how a better government can help them to live in better housing, enjoy cleaner environment, face less bureaucracy and congestion, have better safety and security for your love ones and more job opportunities. Now compare these issues which I have just highlighted with whether or not alcohol should be sold in Muslim majority areas, with CAT investigations here and there, with likely televised debates or otherwise, I am sure many have no problem understanding why increasingly more and more people are getting chided off.
#20 by OrangRojak on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 4:22 pm
Perhaps it’s not that big a deal. What benefit was there to Bagan Pinang residents in voting PR? If they vote for ‘sweeteners’ in a by election, they may get sweeteners. If they vote PR in a by election, they get nothing. Is that right? It’s vanishingly unlikely that so many BN ministers will pop their clogs before the next GE that it would be worth voting PR in the expectation of an early change of government.
Some of these constituencies may have extensive networks of patronage that would be severely disrupted by careless voting. I wonder if we should expect different voting in a General Election (when a change to a PR government could be realised) from a by election, where it could possibly only cause the gravy to dry up.
Fear of upsetting the gravy train is going to continue to be a problem in Malaysian politics as long as patronage is the way things are done. I think you have to break the dependency by mandating free money for all Malaysians as an inalienable right. It doesn’t matter how hard some of these people work for a better future for their kids under BN, MPH will never accept rice cookers at the checkout.
Give Malaysians money, and let them make their own minds up. A thousand poor people will vote for free money. One rich friend will vote for a crony enrichment scheme to ‘supply better housing’, but the thousand poor people who have been denied choice may not. Perhaps it’s not ideal for campaign funding – a housing developer may ‘support’ you in return for favourable consideration when the housing development deals are handed out. Tricky choice.
#21 by Ed G on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 4:41 pm
I hope that this drubbing sents a clear warning to the PR in general and Pas in particular. Of late, the actions and words from the likes of Hassan Ali of Pas are totally at odds with the expectations of the voters. Imagine, just at a time when the people are seeing some positive results from the Selcat public inquest, out came this state party head cum exco threatening to derail the whole proceeding by throwing criticism publicly and threatening to quit the ‘coalition’. He then threw in the racial card to justify his actions. At the end of the day, he was let off the hook by his party. Judging from the above case, how do expect the people to accept the PR as an alternative to the present BN goverment?
#22 by lkt-56 on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 4:52 pm
PR is not really that bad compared to BN. It is just that people’s expectation of them has been raised really high and unfortunately, they are inexperienced and falter along the way. Perhaps… aside from conductuing a post mortem what PR needs sorely is a good professional public relations firm to help shore up their image.
#23 by hs choo on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 5:10 pm
YB LKS, you have rightly pointed out that PR members to go back to the drawing board. What have you learnt from the Bagan Pinang by election.
1. Are all the members (DAP-PKR-PAS) united ? If you are not united, how are you going to fight BN ? Look at the case of Dr Hasan (Pas) & Wee (PKR). There is a lot of in house fighting. PR real enemy is BN and not internal fighting. All members please buck up.
2. Look forward as “blaming” the previous government is no longer valid. Look at the case of LGE (Penang), he cannot continue harping on the previous government (under KTK) on issues/problems. He has to perform. That a must. No more excuses.
#24 by Godfather on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 5:18 pm
Ibat said: “….PR can win GE13 – without PAS! They are too far off the pole to fit in either PR or BN…”
No, PR can’t win GE13 without PAS. Love them or hate them, you have to include them if there is to be any hope of getting rid of the den of thieves. DAP and PKR just need to find the right formula for dealing with PAS.
#25 by OrangRojak on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 5:25 pm
their image
No la! Like a vampire, you hold up a mirror to PR, you see nothing. What image? There is no substance!
Do people really believe electoral success is about perception? If the Pakatan Rakyat parties really gloss their marketing, have their hair done and fix their teeth, people will vote for them? I don’t see that much evidence of BN ministers going for beauty treatments – they can touch Malaysians’ hearts by handing out kitchen equipment.
I think we need a single entity to support. BN have it easy – UMNO owns everything, and if you’re prepared to kneel down and struggle with the fly, you can get a taste too. Pakatan Rakyat doesn’t have the ‘benefit’ of a superior partner. The 3 parties have entrenched attitudes and none would submit to another.
I think rather than forming a coalition, a new party should be registered as a vehicle for GE13. Keep your existing parties for lobbying purposes (it’s practically impossible to avoid, anyway), and ask your members to join the new party as new members of a new Opposition party. Do not make membership of one of the ‘big 3’ a precondition for membership of it. Set up the new party as a party that campaigns on a single manifesto, and make adherence to the manifesto a condition of membership.
Between now and GE13, every by election you contest should be done on a ‘New Party’ ticket. Your supporters can put on their ‘New Party’ tee shirts and caps when they go to support at by-elections.
You’re going to have to divide up government posts between the current 3 parties when you win GE13 anyway, why not do it now? If you keep the existing parties, there should be no problem for the current PR states. It’ll be easier for BN turncoats too – instead of joining the Opposition from the last GE, they can join New Party.
Your supporters are always clamouring for a ‘2 party system’, so just give it to them. Maintaining 3 independent parties in Opposition is meaningless! Formalise your interdependence as soon as possible.
#26 by cintanegara on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 5:26 pm
Finding excuses for losing leads to losing…..Pakatan Rakyat has thus far proven itself incapable of forming effective and functioning government….Kg Buah Pala, Shah Alam Temple, sale of alcohol in respect of community….etc… The reality is…. Rakyats are fed up with Pakatan Rakyat and the way they create trouble…. inciting racial tensions bla bla bla. .. Not holding a common stand indicates their fragility and failure That’s why BN retained the Bagan Pinang state seat with land slide majority…
#27 by OrangRojak on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 5:38 pm
Pakatan Rakyat has thus far proven[citation needed] itself incapable
Here’s a ref for you cintanegara:
http://www.thenutgraph.com/poll-63percent-approval-for-khalid
It’s the opposite of what you said, but if you just remove the ‘in’ from the ‘capable’ in your comment, you’ll look reasonably clever.
#28 by undertaker888 on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 5:47 pm
before the tears dry, there will be another by-election in Kota seputeh, kedah? Wow.
#29 by Charlie Oscar on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 5:54 pm
Dear Mr. Lim,
Congartulations to the RAKYAT of Bagan Pinang for making a firm decision!!!
They have chosen a ADUN who will be able to serve ALL the people of BP, includimg the opposition supporters!
ALL the 8 Districts, including the Postal-voters, are in favour of the BN ADUN!!!
It is very sad for your BITTER readers to Condemn the RAKYAT of Bagan Pinang for being POOR, ILLITERATE, IGNORANT, GULLIBLE, etc…!!!
This is a real INSULT to the people of BP, and Malaysians in General!!!
It also shows that Pembangkang Rakyat (PR) supporters CANNOT accept DEMOCRACY in Malaysia when they talk so much about DEMOCRACY!!!
PR supporters are simply BLINDED by POLITICS!!!
#30 by kevchua on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 5:58 pm
PR has lost BIG time this time around. It’s the voices of the people that are telling PR that they’re fed up of the internal bickering.
Money politics? Maybe. But let’s not blame the huge defeat on money politics alone because PR knows that it’s weak – so weak that BN was able to convince the rakyat that PR has not done anything for them.
The people can’t wait for a change to take place and if PR is taking its own sweet time to change, while continue blaming BN for every mistake, then there won’t be a change. In fact, BN will eventually “change” as they’d be more cautious, and the people would then win back their trust.
If you want to win the hearts of the people back, it is mandatory for PR to seriously think about HOW to serve the people better than BN, not merely make lengthy vociferous but empty speeches.
#31 by Saint on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 6:03 pm
A loss once in a while is good to check the arrogance and the “taken for granted” attitude. The Rakyat needs a united “alternate party” in the true sense and not in names sake, Go back to the people, big or small you need all of them.
#32 by k1980 on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 6:10 pm
The Indians are now supporting umno again ? Out of the 1,870 Indians who voted in Bagan Pinang, BN got a whopping 1,387 votes while PAS only managed a measly 483.
#33 by sheriff singh on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 6:13 pm
Somebody’s in-law remarked yesterday, as they went to vote: “Vote Pas? What for?”
Yes. What for?
Bagan Pinang is not in Kelate. Its Army Town now. Its BN stronghold. Get it?
But to get trashed kau-kau. There’s a message in there somewhere. Find it.
#34 by katdog on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 6:15 pm
I hope that PR does some serious soul searching before starting to point fingers at each other for the Bagan Pinang debacle.
I am sure many people will be pointing fingers at Hassan Ali and PAS. But seriously, were Bagan Pinang folks really influenced by his antics? But why were they not equally influenced by the antics of the UMNO cow head protesters?
Was it really because PR did not present a united enough front? But MCA and MIC were so busy with their own internal battles UMNO practically went at it alone (along with the new MMSP), so was it really the image of unity that could have turned the numbers around?
When we analyze the root cause of the Bagan Pinang rout i think it is important to really identify what it was that really made voters vote for BN over PR. Don’t be quick to arrive at the wrong conclusions and start blaming the wrong persons.
#35 by lkt-56 on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 7:22 pm
The suggestion that a new political party be formed instead of a coalition is the best that can happen for it will send a strong message to BN that they are in for a real fight. And to the voters it will show that the three partners are able to overcome their differences and make a sincere effort to offer the people a viable alternative.
Such a move will also signal the birth of a truly multiracial party. I certainly hope that this will become reality. I know that a large section of the Malaysian people ready for such a transformation but are the leaders of PR ready to commit to one another? We shall see…
#36 by Hugos on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 7:33 pm
“Now compare these issues which I have just highlighted with whether or not alcohol should be sold in Muslim majority areas, with CAT investigations here and there, with likely televised debates or otherwise, I am sure many have no problem understanding why increasingly more and more people are getting chided off.” >>> dumb nitwit
“chided off”?? ROFL
#37 by OrangRojak on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 7:46 pm
Had to take the kids out for a walk and to get the tastiest nasi ayam + rendang in Malaysia from the family who cooks it outside the DAP office near Lukut, but a thought just struck me about Malaysian politics. It looks like we’re witnessing the end of the Jurassic period, where the old highly-specialised dinosaur parties are experiencing a mass die-off. The meteor that has struck is the Internet, and increasing awareness of rights and the ‘right way’ to do things. It’ll be interesting to see which ‘generalists’ survive the extinction event!
I think the point made by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot is a good one – although I’m not quite sure who she’s quoting. It doesn’t matter how good the Pakatan Rakyat parties are, they’ll never be able to please everybody. I think it’s important to graciously concede the occasional loss – particularly when it’s expected. There are going to be unassailable fortresses of BN support, perhaps PR could try out their ‘novel’ ideas in these by-elections, rather than just turn up dutifully to receive their beating.
The widening gap is a bit worrying. I guess it’s too early to detect a trend, but the previous by-election wasn’t a great confirmation of PR’s performance either, was it? We have to remember that’s there’s only 40 of us reading LKS’ blog and 10 million reading the Star and New Straits Times. And we’re all financially supporting the Najib-brand marketing project, even if we don’t all contribute cash to PR’s effort.
#38 by albert308 on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 8:33 pm
PR must go back to the drawing board, this is the right wording following BN big majority win. This result is a surprise to many supporters and very disappointed with it. WHAT IS NEED TO BE DONE?
Since forming government in five states, many peoples are disappointed with the co-operation among PAS, DAP and PKR. Not to talk about performance yet as we can’t evaluate it in such a short time. No sense of cohesiveness among the leaders from middle to lower ranks. Open bickering happen in state administrations too often without refer to internal consultation. This generally give public perception that PR is not ready to govern, far from the aim of forming the next federal government.
We are not too late, B Pinang lost is a wake up call to PR leaders. Indian voters are obviously back to BN fold, this is very worry trend. We can’t blame vote buying and abuse of power by BN alone because the big majority causing surprise. Anyway, PR still lead with 7 win against BN 1. Is it because the sentiment at southern region is different from North? May be we should see the the next coming by-election.
#39 by Charlie Oscar on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 8:57 pm
Dear Mr. Lim,
This is interesting!
“It is not race but rather the social economics of the people. The poorer ones are less educated and more susceptible to material gains and intimidation,” said Tian Chua.
Ron (M’kini reader) : YB Tian Chua, how dare you insult the poor and less educated members of the public. What PAS is doing in Selangor and else where are turning off the non muslims. Get YOUR FACTS A AND YOUR ACTS RIGHT before trying to humiliate the poor and the uneducated!
It is not only the BITTER Pembangkang Rakyat (PR) supporters that are Insulting the Rakyat, even their so called “leaders”, are doing the same!!!
PR supporters and leaders do not have to stoop so low in calling names!
Please accept Win or Lost with an open heart and mind!
After all, this is only POLITICS!!!
#40 by lee wee tak_ on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 9:05 pm
on 1 hand, I am sympathetic that PR is fighting with 1 hand tied behind their back, given the limited state powers, unlimited power of BN which control the federal government plus, what I feel, less than enthusiastic respond by the civil servants.
On the other hand, there are glaring weaknesses exhibited by PR MPs and DUNs.
I do not see any specific programmes for Indians. They supplied a huge and decisive chunk of vote. While I support the colour blind and need basis approach in assisting the rakyat, I also feel on if the needs justified, we must have race specific solutions to deal with each issues unique to each race.
Indians do feel neglected hence the advent of Hindraf outburst. It is reasonable to expect them wanting to feel “pampered” or immediately rewarded by PR. The lack of a visible and viable solution for this community’s issued will make them return to BN. There is a harsh double standard for PR. Any small fault, some fence sitters will run back to and forgive BN.
PAS have given me the impression that they do not value Chinese and Indian support. The events in Kedah and Selangor such as appointment of the non-Malay CEO of PKNS, etc.
Some DAP MPs I have the pleasure of meeting surprised me with their non-chalant, or even arrogant or rude behaviour (I need not name the minorities here but I won’t keep it a secret either)
Politicians are in the business of gaining popularity.
#41 by boh-liao on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 9:11 pm
Very soon 2010/03/08 will b here
Ppl will ask what has PR done after controlling 4 states, K, K, P, n S, 4 2 yrs
Show us the money, results, achievements
#42 by lee wee tak_ on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 9:15 pm
the DAP budget presented is a good one. It really “merakyatkan” the economy. Putting consumption power into the masses would allow the multiplier effect to set in.
it is a much better model by the BN deficit budget, narrow allocation basis thus far.
this proves that PR has the capability, but not the opportunity to put into practice their philisophy and belief on a wide scale.
dear uncle kit, your interview with Sin Chew last month has proven to be words of wisdom after all.
the consolation is that the warning signs come early so PR better take stock and focus on delivering, improving, consolidating and performing. the PR components in Sabah and Sarawak should be taken to task for not doing the above
#43 by lkt-56 on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 9:19 pm
Mr. Charlie Oscar,
Congratulations!!! You finally got your chance to come over here to have some fun poking at the frustrated PR supporters. Sorry to remind you that the score is 7-1 in favour of Pembankang. ;)
#44 by boh-liao on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 9:42 pm
PR never learns from history, mudah lupa
GE 2000 n GE2004
Looking more n more like fireworks
Pop, a transient one-off brilliance
So, is this the end of the world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l-GpISGBFY
It ended when voters said good bye ….
#45 by vsp on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 10:03 pm
Yes, PKR must do something about its deteriorating situation. PKR has been delinquent when it comes to discipline. The mantra of “Pakatan does not sweep things under the carpet” under the free-for-all madness for self-flagellation needs to be seriously examined and qualified in its application. When each and every Tom, Dick and Harry can hide under this slogan and display his indiscipline, prejudices, disdain and personal ambition against the coalition’s principles and aspirations and escape scot-free from punishment and rebuke, this is a sign and precursor for the downfall of the coalition.
Let the Pakatan make doubly clear to any individual who crosses the bar of agreed principles of the coalition, no matter how high or important or indispensable that person is in the hierarchy, he should face the disciplinary committee at once and if found guilty should face the axe. Do it and people like Hassan Ali, Choo Wee Keong, Zulkifli Noordin and many trojan horses within Pakatan will think twice before they create more headaches for Pakatan. Do not wait until it will be too late to do anything about it. Do it now and immediately.
The defeat of Pakatan in Bagan Pinang is a blessing in disguise and has never come at a more opportune time because for so long some parties within Pakatan have become indoctrinated and arrogant in their invincibility and belief that no matter what the Pakatan do or will not do will not affect their popularity. For the past 8 by-elections, there were serious dissensions, mostly triggered by some little Napoleons within the Pakatan itself. The belief that the people will always support the Pakatan no matter what is growing thin and Bagan Pinang has provided a valuable lesson.
Wake up, Pakatan: a house divided against itself will not survive the cut-throat political battle in Bolehland.
#46 by OrangRojak on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 10:27 pm
There is yet another consideration in all this. Pakatan Rakyat agents ask Malaysians to get behind the ‘Campaign For Change’. Since before the last GE, part of the ‘Contract For Change’ is a commitment from budding politicians and their supporters to keep out of Opposition politics, for fear of splitting the Opposition vote.
Should Pakatan Rakyat fail to deliver victory in the next election, they won’t only have failed their supporters, they will have betrayed all those who held their own political ambitions in check to give Pakatan Rakyat the best possible shot.
I think this is DAP, PKR and PAS’s big evolutionary moment. Within the next 2 years we’ll find out whether they can adapt to the changing environment, or whether they’re a dead end like MCA and MIC.
#47 by sheriff singh on Monday, 12 October 2009 - 11:51 pm
Its been 1 1/2 years since March 08. The momentum has slowed down substantially and there are cracks everywhere. Conditions have changed and some are really fed up on lack of progress and of issues. Things are not so hot anymore. In Sabah and Sarawak, PR is already crumbling.
So the question is, will PR last and for how long?
#48 by dawsheng on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 12:10 am
It is good that BN won, that’ll teach PAS a lesson, I hope!
#49 by Hugos on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 12:11 am
“I have many, many friends who visit Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia over and over again. Very few will even visit Malaysia once ….>>> olang lojak
Many of them are known pedophiles in search of ten-year old girls and boys. Malaysia can do without these sickos.
#50 by katdog on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 12:14 am
Yes, how true. PR politicians are all fighting amongst themselves in spite of the fact that they are already under siege by BN and various government machinery.
How can one be sympathetic to PR when their leaders are seen to squabble over minor issues amongst themselves, then claim that they cannot govern due to being in ‘unfairly’ treated by the federal government? How long before people get tired of that excuse.
The voters already knew from DAY 1 that any opposition state would be unfairly treated. Yet, the voters threw caution to the wind and decided to let PR have a chance. And now, the only excuse PR leaders can give is: we didn’t create the mess, it was BN’s fault, don’t blame us, federal government is being unfair. How’s that for betraying the faith of the voters?
I was annoyed when i say in the news today that Penang had put up signs saying ‘No to ISA’. WTH!?? How is that called governing Penang? Who paid for those signboards? taxpayers? Stop the opposition sloganeering and start the policy making.
#51 by GilaPolitic on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 1:57 am
Uncle Lim,
Congratulations ! Pakatan PAS lost badly in Bagan Pinang by election. Corrupt ISA deserved to win with big majority due to Pakatan failed the Rakyat hope and trust today.
Many Bagan Pinang voters turned their votes for tainted BN ISA to teach all Pakatan Leaders very good lessons for their power greed and political mistakes. The reasons are as follows:-
Rakyat is fed up with Pakatan Rakyat internal problems and infighting in public over few religion issues, Hassan Ali, Selcat issue between PAS and DAP in Selangor. –
“Malay voters run away from extremist PAS”
Rakyat is angry with 3 Pakatan ADUN traitors from PKR and DAP betrayed Perakian voters to lose Perak state government to BN. –
“Chinese voters run away from DAP and PKR”.
Rakyat is confuse over Kampug Buah Pala land issue played up by UMNO and Gerakan in Penang and Najib supported Makkal Sakti party – “Indian voters run away from Pakatan Rakyat”
WE HOPE PAKATAN LEADERS WILL DIGEST THE 3 MAIN FACTORS ON WHY RAKYAT VOTERS RUNAWAY FROM DAP, PAS AND PKR NOW.
#52 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 2:04 am
“I was annoyed when i say in the news today that Penang had put up signs saying ‘No to ISA’.” (katdog)
If the above-mentioned sign of “No to ISA” really means “No to Internal Security Act”, then Lim Guan Eng may need to consider giving instruction to the relevant Town Council for the removal of such a signboard. As the ruling political leader in Penang State Government, Lim Guan Eng should by now be able to realize the usefulness of the Internal Security Act when it is being used in favour of Pakatan Rakyat in the event that the power to invoke such act is to be vested in the hands of Pakatan Rakyat leader someday in the future.
Just ask yourself, Pakatan Rakyat leader, “Am I able to keep the peaceful situation within my personal grasp in case now I am to be appointed as the Prime Minister of Malaysia in the ticket of Pakatan Rakyat, even though the existing social peace may be jeorpardised by some subversives from Barisan Nasional camp like the violent Umno Youth members who have already resorted to vandalism and gangsterism in Bagan Pinang by-election 2009?”
#53 by jsaiban on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 2:15 am
Pakatan or not, the people just need a party that can manage and bring the people forward. “Malaysian Malaysia”
#54 by monsterball on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 2:54 am
Do not twist and turn the usefulness of ISA when ISA have been used to protect UMNO cowards only…and never for the country and people.
ISA is an out-dated law and Lim Guan Eng knows exactly what he is doing.
Righteous and truthful government need no ISA..and LGE is leading Penang people to be free and not be treated like animals.
“No to ISA”……means more freedom.
What are we complaining about?
#55 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 3:00 am
The bloodshed events happened during the political campaign and during the polling of Bagan Pinang by-election 2009 had proven that Malaysia’s electorate usually consisted of a group of irrationally emotional trouble makers who would not hesitate to resort to violence in order to express their discontent against the political dissidents or political dissenters, especially when the dissidents or the dissenters were from Pakatan Rakyat.
Malaysia’s political system is just an immatured democracy. The status of political matureness would never be attained in Malaysia unless the electorate is taught to understand about the possible harmful disasters which may be brought about by the universal corruption practices among the politicians.
Since corruption has been becoming the first enemy of all Malaysian people, it is imperative for Pakatan Rakyat leaders to temporary set aside other less important human rights issues like petition for the repellation of the draconian laws such as the ISA and the Sedition Act and be preoccupied with the prioritized issues of waging wars against corruption and against violence which have been bred and encouraged by ill-willed politicians through the practices of inciting racist emotion and through giving bribes to the members of law enforcement units in order to avoid being prosecuted for inciting racist hatred during a political campaign.
It is prematured for the opposition members to keep talking about the slogan of “No to ISA” and purportedly distracting the attention on the Anti-Corruption problem when the corruption practices of Umnoputras have become the cancerous disease of Malaysia’s political system and the Internal Security Act (ISA) seems to be the only valid tool for putting the corrupted Umno leaders in check when Pakatan Rakyat is to take over the Federal Government someday in the future. If Pakatan Rakyat is able to take over the Federal Government by GE13, then the first and foremost thing Pakatan Rakyat leader should consider doing is to invoke the ISA to keep the corrupted Umnoputras under the Police’s custody in order to forestall them from having a chance to give bribe to the military soldiers and entice the members of armed forces to commit any possible subversive behaviours. Pakatan Rakyat leader will also need to invoke the ISA against the pro-Umno biased MACC officers someday in the future in the event that such MACC officers refuse to cooperate with the criminal investigators of future Pakatan Rakyat Government.
Even though I personally hold the opinion of disfavouring the invocation of the ISA against the civilians, I conservatively believe that the ISA can be invoked against the armed rebels as long as the democracy system in Malaysia is still too far lagging behind from attaining the mature status due to the long-lingering uncontrollable and unchecked corruption practices of Umnoputras in view of Umno leader’s conceding to the corruption practices by allowing a corrupted politician a second chance for making a political comeback to Malaysia’s political arena.
#56 by monsterball on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 3:57 am
UMNO can apply ISA in every which way they like to protect themselves….and others must think twice and be wise…not to upset what maybe good…being used as an evil tool by UMNO.
It really boils down…so difficult for PR to change things and win governing the country.
Might as well vote UMNO and BN to govern forever…if you keep reading wise men talking.
Lim Guan Eng…outwardly saying “No to ISA” in Penang is also wrong…too prematured…this and that.
Watch out for smart Alexes.. trying to make like difficult for PR. These are cunning MCA guys…trying to speak to educated youngsters….making things so difficult to change for the better…confusing young voters…and to make life easy for them….do not rock the boat…keep voting UMNO in.
Such writers have no Malaysians at heart but are pure racialists…feeling fully comfortable to be second class citizens.
To me…these are the scums of our Malaysian society…willing to sell their souls…to survive.
#57 by tenaciousB on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 5:11 am
I have doubts PR will win in the coming general elections. Anwar has made more promises than barrack obama and has not even fulfilled one wherelese barrack is at least in the process of completing one. It was a hopeless alliance from the beginning, one that was never meant to last and infact was more of a last resort to curtail BN’s unscrupulous management of the country.
God help this country.
#58 by monsterball on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 7:24 am
You doubts are logical….but you need to focus on the root cause…and fight injustices..which is at the highest level..when PR captured few States.
What you are saying..lets all give up and let UMNO govern forever.
Over many thousands dead bodies will that ever happen.
We are fighting the most unfair and unjust government you can ever find in a developed country.
Do not compare USA mentalities with Malaysians..or Obama with Anwar.
USA is a land ..completely free and Malaysia is going backward with our people daily being programed for past 30 years….to depend on UMNO…plus separating the races..to divide and rule.
UMNO is a very cruel government…..because they are greedy and corrupted.
This is a war to free minds or be controlled like living dead.
We must talk till we drop dead to wake people up!!
#59 by boh-liao on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 9:32 am
LKS’s blog has been largely Umno n BN bashing
Reports of negative things
LKS, how abt telling us some positive things under PR’s rule
Selangor n Pg r two rich states, economic engines, educated n well-connected residents
Tell us what PR has achieved there
Tell us how PR chaps fr Selangor n Pg helped Kedah n Kelantan to improve economically
Tell us any cooperation projects among the SPKK states
We want to know how PR rules these 4 states
So far, fr msm, we know mostly negative things fr SPKK
In fighting between huge ego kaki in DAP
Back stabbing among DAP, PKR, n PAS politicians
So, what change, what chance 4 tomorrow
Change for the better, educationally, socially, economically
Can PR convince Kelantan state gomen that being economically disadvantaged is not a privilege of the ppl there
#60 by Mist on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 10:56 am
I think such a view is silly and unfounded. A more important question to ask yourself is whether current laws, with all the necessary safeguards against abuse and wrongful injustices, are sufficient to maintain peace and order ?
If the answer is yes then what good is ISA with all the elements that are opened to abuse and corruption of power.
ISA is a law more suited to the wild west and crogmanon era.
#61 by Mist on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 11:26 am
One observation which I believe is correct was that in the last GE even if PR had put monkeys in some of the constituecies the rakyat would still have voted for it. After the election we realised that some monkeys were actually voted in.
As RPK had observed correctly that in the last election the rakyat did not vote for PR but did NOT VOTE FOR BN. This may seem a strange statement but essentially what it meant was that the rakyat was fed-up with the corruption of BN. It was more a push factor than a pull factor of PR.
After PR came to power in a number of states many now realised – particularly in penang and selangor – that the swan they had hoped for turned out to be more an ugly duckling.
The broken promises and silly rhetorics to cover mistakes and the self-sabotaging antics of hassan ali and the idiotic nordin from pkr added to the frustration and disappointment of many. Remember how in 2004 where so many had voted for badawi and then later found out that he was just as bad as mahathir and more incompetent ? Massive swing in one direction often result in massive swing in the opposite direction. That is one of the laws of nature.
PR needed to ensure that the energy that had caused the swing to its favour be used correctly and appropriately. Othewise the energy that had caused the swing will propel it in the opposite direction. The rakyat’s frustration with the corruption and injustices are still very high and they have no way of venting it.
PR has another very serious problem in that they have too many leaders and in the end there is no leadership. BN is very different. When najib speaks all the other component party leaders listen. Anwar had done the almost impossible in bringing the parties together but he seemed tired and weary and do not have the energy necessary to forge a cohesive coalition.
Look at the budget that DAP produced. It was a DAP effort and not the PR effort. Was DAP trying to grab some limelight ? Were there consultation with the other coalition partners ? What about all these shadow cabinet committees ? What happened to all the grand vision ? We need to flesh it out for us to at least know where to direct the rakyat’s energy and frustration with the BN corrupt ways.
The energy and frustration of the rakyat are still very much alive and it needed direction and management otherwise the natural order of things would be to swing in the opposite direction in the next general election.
#62 by lkt-56 on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 1:23 pm
The March 8, 2008 political Tsunami fired up the imaginations of the people that change is possible. The fall of the Perak PR government made the people more determined that there should be change. And now, the defeat of PR in Bagan Pinang has re-kindled such great energy for debates on how PR should position itself to be ready for Putra Jaya.
What we need now is the final push: The formation of a NEW PAKATAN RAKYAT PARTY to push this energy to it greatest height yet! I hope the PR leadership will not disappoint.
#63 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 1:38 pm
“Lim Guan Eng…outwardly saying “No to ISA” in Penang is also wrong…too prematured…this and that.” (monsterball)
monsterball,
Assume that Pakatan Rakyat will win the GE13 and will be ready to take over the rule of the Federal Government from Barisan Nasional. Also assume that Umnoputras resort to terrorism and incitement on the racist Malays to start a violent revolt after Pakatan Rakyat has taken over the Federal Government. How is Pakatan Rakyat leader going to curb the riot and revolt without resorting to the ISA? Please enlighten me on this issue!
#64 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 1:48 pm
“A more important question to ask yourself is whether current laws, with all the necessary safeguards against abuse and wrongful injustices, are sufficient to maintain peace and order ?
If the answer is yes then what good is ISA with all the elements that are opened to abuse and corruption of power. ” (Mist)
Mist,
The answer is a big “Yes” only when there is no serious corruption problem in existence in Malaysia. However, with Najib’s giving consent to the practice of corruption by the ambiguous excuse of “corruption is acceptable if it is a technical corruption”, I can only find a big “No” to the questions raised about the adequacy of Malaysia’s existing law for safeguarding against abuse and wrongful injustices and for maintaining peace and order.
How do you expect me to trust a legal enforcement system, a prosecution system and a judicial court system which all have been greatly influenced by the universal corruption practices? I would rather choose to rely upon a high handed authoritarian leader to resolve and eradicate all the prevalent corruption and power abuse problems.
#65 by OrangRojak on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 2:30 pm
enlighten me
Is incitement to crime not also a crime? Is crime not illegal? If someone commits a crime or incites, solicits or procures a crime, they should face the applicable law. If they do not commit a crime, and do not incite, solicit or procure one, why should they be threatened?
If a Pakatan Rakyat government is faced with domestic terrorism, then they should deal with it with reasonable laws. Doing it that way will restore people’s confidence in law and order.
You cannot suggest a new government be ‘high handed’ against its own force machinery. That’s meaningless. If the machinery of state won’t act for law, order and the government of the day, we’re living in a military dictatorship, and can look forward to fitting in better in South East Asia.
We have to believe that the machinery of state will act for whatever government is elected, or we are already not living in a democracy. The articles I read about the relationship between the local police and PR governments in Penang and Selangor seem quite positive, on a day to day basis. Are you sure you’re not worrying too much?
#66 by lkt-56 on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 3:32 pm
The debate on whether the ISA should be retained for use by PR. I have something to share with you guys:
The Path With A Heart
Anything is one of a million paths. Therefore you must always keep in mind that a path is only a path; if you feel you should not follow it, you must not stay with it under any conditions. To have such clarity you must lead a disciplined life. Only then will you know that any path is only a path, and there is not affront, to oneself or to others, in dropping it if that is what your heart tells you to do. But your decision to keep on the path or to leave it must be free of fear or ambition.
I warn you. Look at every path closely and deliberately. Try it as many times as you think necessary. Then ask yourself, and yourself alone, one question. This question is one that only a very old person asks. My benefactor told me about it once when I was young, and my blood was too vigorous for me to understand it. Now I do understand it.
I will tell you what it is: Does this path have a heart?
All paths are the same, they lead nowhere. They are paths going through the bush, or into the bush. In my own life I could say I have traversed long, long paths, but I am not anywhere. My benefactor’s question has meaning now. “Does this path have a heart?” One makes you strong; the other weakens you.
The trouble is nobody asks the question: and when a person finally realizes that they have taken a path without heart, the path is ready to kill them. At that point very few people stop to deliberate and leave the path.
A path without a heart is never enjoyable. You have to work hard even to take it. On the other hand, a path with heart is easy; it does not make you work at liking it.
For my part there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length.
And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly.
– Don Juan
#67 by lkt-56 on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 3:36 pm
Does ISA have a heart?
#68 by limkamput on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 4:25 pm
//Many of them are known pedophiles in search of ten-year old girls and boys. Malaysia can do without these sickos.// Hugos
Yes, sure Malaysia can go without all these sickos but that does not mean we don’t have lots of sickos in our midst – like the half baked chameleon and the odd ball who have never failed to visit Thailand after giving their sicko one line comments here.
#69 by Prakash on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 4:39 pm
Basics,just basics Mr Lim. PAS had never left out their Islamic ambition. Please make a stand clearly . islamic country or secular . Thats all we ask
#70 by monsterball on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 5:51 pm
Onlooker Politics….Go and find out how other countries are controlling riots without ISA.
I understand ISA is good..provided it is not being misused….like UMNO is clearly miss using it.
Do not forget….ISA was meant to arrest communists….not ordinary citizens.
Anything good can be misused and turn to be no good…and right now..UMNO applying..ISA solely to protect UMNO.
Therefore it is the government misusing it..and it must be abolished.
#71 by katdog on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 6:53 pm
Hello? People still talking as if PR has a chance to take over the federal government? You are all counting your chickens before they hatch.
According to political analysts, if the current voting trend remains, the next GE will likely end in a stalemate or narrow BN victory , rather than a huge victory for PR everyone seems already to be envisioning.
Sabah and Sarawak still remains out of reach for PR. The southern peninsular states as well remain firmly in UMNO’s hands. Unless PR makes inroads, victory in the next GE will still lie just slightly out of grasp.
PR now only has another 3.5 years left before the next GE. Predictions are Najib will likely call early elections to prevent PR from being able to make further inroads. This time round, without Hindraf and sleepyhead AAB, PR can no longer depend on protest votes. As long as Najib continues his careful sloganeering and propaganda, there will not be any tsunami next GE. Remember, 80% of Malaysians still depend on mass media for their news.
PR needs to stop depending on protest votes and needs to start earning votes by being able to offer something more substantial to voters. Something that people can rally around and believe in. Raising issues like beer, pig farms, temples, drains, schools will not work as BN already doing that for 50 years and BN can promise far more ‘development funds’ than PR can.
People are saying registering one party is the answer. That’s not it. Having one party will still only be purely cosmetic and insignificant unless the members can work together. What’s the difference of having one party name, if Hassan Ali’s still in there raising a big fuss?
#72 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 6:54 pm
“The articles I read about the relationship between the local police and PR governments in Penang and Selangor seem quite positive, on a day to day basis. Are you sure you’re not worrying too much?” (OrangRojak)
OrangRojak,
If you think that I am worrying too much, why do we find that DAP leaders, PAS leaders and PKR leaders from Perak are making so much noise about the favouritisms that have been practiced in favour of Barisan Nasional by the Ipoh High Court and the Perak Police?
If you have some knowledge about the political history of Sabah, you may be able to find out that several bomb planting cases had happened in Sabah during mid 1980s, with the malicious intent to sabotage the Sabah State Government formed by PBS, a then political opponent of Barisan Nasional during mid 1980s. If it was not because Umno still had a deputy president of good conscience by the name of Musa Hitam at that point of time, perhaps Dr. Mahathir would have overthrown PBS state government within 30 days of PBS’s holding the rule of the Sabah State Government by resorting to military rule.
I don’t think I am worrying too much because the coup threat is real in Malaysia so long as you still find racist people occupying the top leadership of Umno.
#73 by katdog on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 7:16 pm
“The articles I read about the relationship between the local police and PR governments in Penang and Selangor seem quite positive, on a day to day basis. Are you sure you’re not worrying too much?” (OrangRojak)
OrangRojak, are you sure? Then why did the police not provide police presence at the Shah Alam temple relocation meeting which UMNO goons crashed? Are not the police constantly painted as bad guys by DAP politicians? Do you think they enjoy that? Especially when many have no choice but to carry out the orders or be ‘disposed’ off?
DAP-PAS needs to really ask itself, is it building bridges or burning bridges enroute to the next GE?
#74 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 7:39 pm
“I understand ISA is good….
Therefore it is the government misusing it..and it must be abolished.” (monsterball)
monsterball,
Your comment makes me recall of a Singapore law which bans selling of chewing gums in Singapore. Chewing gums have been banned in Singapore since early 1990s because some MRT (Mass Rapid Transit train)passengers with itchy hands liked to stick the chewing gums on the MRT doors, making the autoshut door dysfunctional. Moreover, many janitors also complained about the trouble hassle created by the deliberate loitering of chewing gums. Therefore Lee Kuan Yew made a suggestion to pass a law for banning total sale of chewing gums in Singapore.
I believe that any law so passed by the Parliament will serve a certain useful purpose for the nation, or else the Parliament would not be bothering to pass such a law if it is deemed useless. The problem with Malaysia’s ISA actually lies in its containing Section 73 which has given too much power to the Police to detain any person without going through a proper court trial procedure. If the United States as a nation of holding high respect for civil liberties and of observing high human rights standards also permits an anti-terrorism law, I believe Malaysia also has the legitimate reason to retain such so-called draconian law as the ISA for purpose of giving power to the Home Minister for detaining any alleged who is evidenced to take part in purported bomb planting conspiracy with malicious intent.
What Malaysia really needs to do in relation to the law amendment of the ISA is to build in a rigid system of checks and balances with better supervision from an Internal Security Commitee in order to prevent possible misuse or abuse of the law by any politician or by any police officers.
#75 by boh-liao on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 7:52 pm
Looks like the political opportunists in Malaysian Makkal Sakti Party successfully delivered Indian votes to Umno B
#76 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 8:13 pm
“We have to believe that the machinery of state will act for whatever government is elected, or we are already not living in a democracy.” (OrangRojak)
OrangRojak,
So far have you found any Umnoputra who has been accused by the anti-curruption agency as a corrupt to the bone scumbag having been convicted and found guilty by a Session Court or a High Court in Malaysia? Are you sure you truly believe that the machinery of state in Malaysia will act for whatever government is elected? Have you forgotten about the incident of Perak Speaker V Sivakumar’s being removed by a group of Special Branch casual wear policemen from the seat of Assembly Speaker in May 2009?
#77 by lkt-56 on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 8:30 pm
Onlooker Politics:
What Malaysia really needs to do in relation to the law amendment of the ISA is to build in a rigid system of checks and balances with better supervision from an Internal Security Commitee in order to prevent possible misuse or abuse of the law by any politician or by any police officers.
Like the checks and balances we have for the MACC? There are groups of caring Malaysians who are working hard to have the ISA abolished. These are people who have a heart. Not convinced? I hope those who advocate heartless ISA will take the trouble to speak to families who have been victimised by ISA. Somebody asks why Guan Eng waste money to put up a poster to abolish ISA. Who knows better? Guan Eng or the person making that comment?
#78 by OrangRojak on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 8:33 pm
Then why did the police
There are obvious exceptions. What I meant by ‘on a day to day basis’ was that they’re not actually being obstructive or subversive on a day to day basis. I imagine there are elements among them who are only too happy to carry out the occasional UMNO chieftain’s jolly jape, but it must be remembered that they are not legal experts. UMNO owns the Federal apparatus. It must appear to many public sector employees as though they are only being loyal to their employer.
Policing is by and large normal (including pro-UMNO / anti-everyone else bias) in the PR-run states isn’t it? Perak is a different matter because the machinery of government (which the police would not normally question) gave the impression that the uniformed services’ duty was to deliver Najib’s prize. It seems perverse to even say it, but I’m not convinced we can fairly blame the police for their actions in Perak. The blame lies much higher up the chain of command.
As for the subject of a bombing campaign, I don’t think the question even arises for a Pakatan Rakyat government. If it is the work of a network of disenfranchised bigots, then the normal agents of the law can deal with them. If the normal agents of the law are carrying out the bombing out of some higher allegiance, they are not likely to arrest and convict themselves. We have to hope if your forecast bombers do materialise, that they are the former and can be dealt with with healthy, reasonable laws. If you really believe the latter is likely, then why are you wasting time on this blog instead of chartering an aeroplane? I’ll take 4 seats. I’m not interested in a luggage allowance.
Onlooker Politics: If the United States as a nation of holding high respect for civil liberties
Ahahahaha, they are only perceived to hold high respect by those in no danger from their policies!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversial_invocations_of_the_USA_PATRIOT_Act
Come on OnPol, the UK and USA’s, and arguable most of Europe’s reputation for civil liberties was forged long before USA PATRIOT and the Terrorism Act. Those two pieces of legislation are reviled in their home countries. They cannot be wielded fairly because they give the Establishment arbitrary powers of enormous magnitude over their citizens. If they were ‘rigidly checked and balanced’ with ‘better supervision’, they would be normal, reasonable laws! Those Acts are always used to cement the incumbents’ position of power. The terrible events that precede them are just a stroke of ‘luck’ for governments who fear they could lose at the next election.
#79 by OrangRojak on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 8:35 pm
Having one party will still only be purely cosmetic
Well not in the eyes of the Election Commission – there is an unsolved practical problem with campaigning. We are being asked to ‘support change’. If that is not a change of government at the next GE, what is the nature of the ‘change’ that is being sold to us?
#80 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 9:09 pm
“Then why did the police
There are obvious exceptions.” (OrangRojak)
OrangRojak,
As a former ISA detainee, my personal experience told me that many injustices, such as police brutality, unjustified ISA detention of an innocent news reporter Miss Tan Hoon Cheng and the illfully-trapped YB Teresa Kok, happened in Malaysia because of the reason that some racist police officers and the racist Home Minister were sitting at the helm of the ISA invocation power. I do not believe the Police injustices happened in Malaysia can be reduced into an exception rather than a rule. So long as the racist ideology of Ketuanan Melayu still persists within Umno, we will continue to see the happening of more and more police injustices in the future. The ISA can be put to good use by YB Kit if YB Kit can be appointed as the Home Minister in the future.
If YB Kit can become a Home Minister in the future, the first thing I would suggest him to do is to put the racist hatred inciters in the ISA detention camp until Pakatan Rakyat is able to keep the peace and order intact in Malaysia. We have to be cautious that those racist proponents of Ketuanan Melayu ideology would quickly rise up to incite the racist hatred in the event that Pakatan Rakyat seems likely to stand a good chance to take over the Federal Government from Barisan Nasional in the future. If Pakatan Rakyat leaders do not sort this racist hatred thing out with Barisan Nasional leaders, there will never be a true democracy in existence in Malaysia. This is because in case Pakatan Rakyat is going to win the Parliamentary majority, it is very likely that Umnoputras will not hesistate to take the militant short-cut along the path that had been gone through by the late Tun Abdul Razak of Malaysia or the late Ferdinand Marcos of the Phillipines.
#81 by katdog on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 9:13 pm
What? You mean you still don’t know? We are not asking for change in government from BN to PR. We are asking for change in the manner of which the government is being run and the policies which it practices.
A name change from BN to PR is useless to the rakyat. If PR cannot offer a better alternative government then why change? As always: The devil you know is preferable over the devil that you don’t know.
In BN can somehow miraculously convince the voters that it has reformed and improved, then a BN government would be preferable.
We are being asked to support change. What change is PR trying to sell us? Just a name change from BN to PR? Then as a voter aptly put it: “What for vote for PR? No difference what.”
#82 by lkt-56 on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 9:23 pm
Dear Onlooker Politics,
I am surprised that as a victim of the ISA you are still advocating its continued use. The reason? Fear of bigots de-railing the PR government.
Let us not act out of fear. Besides do you think having the ISA will guarantee PR’s continued governance if it does come into power? Do you recall Benazir Bhutto being gunned down and never having a chance to even stand for election? Look hard at the law for the evil that it represents, pleeease…..
#83 by OrangRojak on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 9:23 pm
Onlooker Politics. “Inciting racial hatred” is a tricky one. Many people, both in Malaysia and without, would claim that “calling a spade a spade” – or even worse – is freedom of speech. I would like to think that a judge, supported by a reasonable government, would be able to distinguish between colourful language and incitement to commit a crime. I never did find out – are incitement / solicitation of crime, crimes themselves here? I suppose there’s always a chance they are not.
I cannot agree with you that the best thing that Home Minister Kit could do is to behave exactly like his predecessor. I am in rough agreement with you that some elements may not accept the result of a General Election which ended UMNO’s run. I must hope that they are in a sufficient minority, and sufficiently even-tempered that their malice would either be easily dealt with or subside with time.
In any case, raising a bogeyman to counter the incumbents’ bogeyman is only going to increase the already deeply divided electorate, and does nothing to convince supporters that they really are going to get change. Violence begets violence. I think we should adopt a more conciliatory tone. If we do not, I fear GE13 could be a lucky time for Chua Soi Lek’s “We Heart Malaysia” party!
#84 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 9:33 pm
The United States took more than 200 years for the majority American citizens to truly agreeing that racism is wrong and a good candidate for the US President should not be rejected simply because he has gotten a different skin colour from the White men.
Malaysia only has about 52 years history in nation building (if there is indeed any nation building effort being put in by Umnoputras). The racism is already deep-rooted and still growing very strong within Umno. If Pakatan Rakyat leaders are to resort to education to teach the Umnoputras that racism is wrong and should be foresaken, they will probably take another 150 years to accomplish the task, based on the extended projection referring to the American experiences.
Who is going to wait for another 150 years in order to see a Prime Minister being selected among the Pakatan Rakyat leaders? Most Pakatan Rakyat supporters would like to see that Anwar or Nik Aziz or YB Kit to be chosen as the Prime Minister since yesterday. In order to make such sweet dream of Pakatan Rakyat come true, Pakatan Rakyat leaders will have no choice but to remember in the future to resort to the invocation of the ISA for purpose of keeping the racist Ketuanan Melayu fanciers under the police custody in order to impair the Umnoputras’ capability to create damages to the social peace and racial harmony! Since Umnoputras are not going to repeal the ISA, why don’t Pakatan Rakyat leaders just take it as a gift to be handed over by Umnoputras to Pakatan Rakyat since the ISA can be a useful tool for putting check on the spread of unwanted racism in Malaysia?
#85 by katdog on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 9:44 pm
Onlooker Politics, you debate as if PR victory is a foregone conclusion.
First, I think its a waste of time debating this. PR must first win the next GE.
Secondly abolishing ISA was one of the key promises of PR. If they do not uphold this promise, then they are lying, untrustworthy opportunists of the worst kind. I don’t think any voter with a conscience would vote for PR ever again if they pull such a stunt.
#86 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 9:47 pm
A Chinese old saying goes, “The water is able to float a boat but nothing more than its ability to sink a boat!”
If the ISA invocation power is put in the hand of the righteous politician, it can help to prevent racist conflicts. However, if the power is placed in the hand of an evil politician, it will become the bloodshed knife of a tyrant. A law is just a law. Whether the law can be used in a beneficial way or not will all depend on the integrity and judgemental quality of the person who is vested with the power to invoke the law.
Since Umnoputras are not going to repeal the ISA, why don’t we just vote Pakatan Rakyat into the Federal Government someday in the future and let Pakatan Rakyat leaders to decide on whether to choose to keep the ISA or to repeal it through the parliamentary law amendment?
#87 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 9:57 pm
Najib already openly announced his consent to the so-called technical corruption! It seems that there is no more legal channel left in Malaysia for putting a check and balance on Umnoputras now except for the option of invoking the ISA detention upon the Umnoputras once Pakatan Rakyat is able to form a Federal Government in the future.
If the policemen, the Investigating officers, the Prosecuting officers, and the court judges can all be technically bribed because it is not wrong to offer a technical bribe by Najib’s standards, then what other system can still be used to put deterrent forces on Najib from committing possible crime besides the ISA detention?
#88 by Mist on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 10:01 pm
I am really lost with your blatant illogic. If normal laws are subjected to corruption and abuse isn’t ISA with far more elements of arbitrariness be an even more convenient tool ?
Help me understand your point of view.
#89 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 10:38 pm
“I am really lost with your blatant illogic. If normal laws are subjected to corruption and abuse isn’t ISA with far more elements of arbitrariness be an even more convenient tool ?” (Mist)
Mist,
Just take a look at Lee Kuan Yew. If Lee was only allowed to use the normal law instead of the ISA, many political watchers commented that Lee would most likely be replaced by the socialist leader such as Lim Ching Siang as the First Prime Minister of Republic of Singapore. With the invocation of the ISA for the arrest of some leftist leaders, Lee was able to put the roadside bomb threat in check during early 1960s. Many Chinese philosophers would prefer the decision making quality and the leadership quality of individual leader to the adoption of popular suggestion advocated by the public majority as the effective way of performing the duty of public administration.
I had my youthful days been spent in learning the political change of Communist China, that was during an era when the maxim of the late Deng Xiao Peng “No matter whether it is a white cat or a black cat, it will surely be a good cat as long as it catches the rat!” had become very popular in early 1980s. I learn to be pragmatic through learning from the wise and experienced seniors.
I don’t think we can do anything for the repellation of ISA at the moment if Umnoputras insist on keeping it, except for putting in much more effort to educate the people that Umnoputras were blatantly wrong when they deliberately advocated the moral correctness of technical corruption.
On the other hand, I believe that the ISA is much easier to implement in the hand of a righteous leader than the normal law because the invocation of the ISA detention will require lesser bureaucratic involvement as compared to the legal court proceedings. In Malaysia, a legal court ligation will sometimes take about 6 years to get a court judgement. However, in case of security emergency the Home Minister can invoke the ISA detention within several hours of giving instruction to the Inspector-General of Police. Therefore the ISA is a much more efficient law in case of security measure urgency happening in Malaysia.
#90 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 11:03 pm
“I am surprised that as a victim of the ISA you are still advocating its continued use.” (lkt-56)
lkt-56,
For your information, I am not the only ex ISA detainee who is still advocating its continued use. The Defence Minister from Umno, Ahmad Zahid Hamidi, had been detained for about one week during September 1998 in Kota Kinabalu. He is also a strong advocator for the continued use of the ISA.
The solitary confinement of the ISA detention is a very effective way to cut off the detainee’s communication with the outsiders. It is a very effective way to put check on the advance of the enemy.
A politician’s ultimate goal is to be able to grab the political power in order to put his/her ideology into practical implementation. If the ISA is going to be a legacy left over by Umnoputras for use by Pakatan Rakyat leaders in the future, no one ambitious Pakatan Rakyat leader will refuse to give a serious thought about the use of it if it can really help the Pakatan Rakyat leader to uphold his/her political power someday in the future.
Whether the ISA is good or not will all depend on whether the Home Minister who invokes the use of it will have a good heart or a bad heart or have no heart at all!
#91 by limkamput on Tuesday, 13 October 2009 - 11:37 pm
//I was annoyed when i say in the news today that Penang had put up signs saying ‘No to ISA’. WTH!?? How is that called governing Penang? Who paid for those signboards? taxpayers? Stop the opposition sloganeering and start the policy making.//
I agree that it is not necessary to harp on the continual existence of ISA.
The stifling political climate in Malaysia is not solely because we have ISA. The government of the day have enough other legislations and apparatus in its arsenal to deal with the oppositions. Therefore those anti ISA signboards put up in Penang are really a waste of time.
#92 by raven77 on Wednesday, 14 October 2009 - 3:49 am
Looks like many of the brains are in the DAP and quite a few in the PKR but the duds in PAS want to run the show…end result, Bagan Pinang.
The DAP and PKR may want to wake up to this reality and make amends now instead of 2013…
#93 by monsterball on Wednesday, 14 October 2009 - 4:53 am
Onlooker Politics..You are mixing up ISA with common laws to protect citizens.
ISA…Internal Security Act….was created by the British to arrest anyone without any reasons given…to control communist sympathizers.
But Mahathir applied ISA…calling it “Operation Lallang”..arresting hundreds to shut oppositions mouth and cripple opposition influences.
That is appyling ISA to be a Dictator and pave the way for massive corruptions..for UMNO to do as they like.
Any country can create and sensible laws to sincerely protect citizens….and whether Singapore banned chewing gum is good or bad…it is a sincere ban to protect S’poreans……and not a vengence against Wriggly’s Chewing Gum.
Please do not mix up….controlling a product with controlling people.
And we need not keep comparing how good this or that foreign country is with Malaysia.
Malaysia is a blessed paradise……much better than USA…but all spoil by greedy…corrupt racialists. We need to stop that.
Many may have migrated or have studied overseas..such as USA ..Australia and Britain…and may have even decided to stay there. Goodluck to them…….but please stop insulting our intelligences. Everyone have reasons to study abroad or go abroad to work…not necessary always….Malaysia is no good…….this and that.
I think…Malaysians must focus how powerful their votes are…and not allow elected politicians…including Anwar to boss us around.
#94 by lkt-56 on Wednesday, 14 October 2009 - 9:06 am
Onlooker politics:
Whether the ISA is good or not will all depend on whether the Home Minister who invokes the use of it will have a good heart or a bad heart or have no heart at all!
In ancient China when the empire was ruled by “sage kings” or “philosopher kings” absolute power yielded desirable results and people were well taken care of. I am afraid in the kind of society that we have now ISA will become a heartless path that will kill us.
#95 by Loh on Wednesday, 14 October 2009 - 10:00 am
ISA=dictatorship
People love benevolent dictators but they are hard to find. So democracy is generally preferred, and so ISA should go.
#96 by jbozz on Wednesday, 14 October 2009 - 12:21 pm
“heartless path that will kill us.”
He will try to abscond more public funds from the people because he need to square back the funds he invested to garner the votes he needs. It is a profitable investment for ISA.
#97 by Onlooker Politics on Wednesday, 14 October 2009 - 1:27 pm
Please allow me to make myself clear here:
1) I am in the opinion that ISA is no longer needed if the existing normal laws of Malaysia can be honestly and dutifully implemented by the law enforcement unit, the AG’s Chamber, the judicial court system and the jail system.
2) However, in view of Najib’s giving justification to the so-called technical corruption by saying that technical corruption in handing out money to someone is a forgivable wrong doing like the case of Tan Sri Isa Samad, generally speaking all kinds of corruption practices within the Government bodies of Malaysia can also be justified based on Najib’s rationale.
With the prevalance of universal corruption practices in Malaysia, I simply have lost all my confidence in the law enforcement systems of Malaysia. Even if Pakatan Rakyat is going to take over the Federal Government, it will not be effective for Pakatan Rakyat leaders to solely depend on the existing Law Enforcement systems in order to carry out an effective rule on the Malaysia subject due to uncontrollable corruption problems. Pakatan Rakyat leaders will still need a tough law like the ISA for purpose of prevention of anarchy situation and sabotage attempt by sending all the corrupted Umnoputras and the hardcore rebels to solitary confinement in the future when Pakatan Rakyat begins to rule at Federal level.
Let’s talk about abolition of the ISA at a later stage when Pakatan Rakyat can effectively control the Federal Government someday in the future. It is no point wasting too much time on this issue now because Umnoputras already make it clear that they are not going to abolish the ISA in the near future!