Anwar’s Sodomy II - let professionals in AG’s chambers rethink and drop the medieval prosecution
There was not only relief but a sense of vindication all round that Parti Keadilan Rakyat adviser Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim was released on RM20,000 personal bond without surety after he pleaded not guilty in the Kuala Lumpur Sessions Court this morning to the Sodomy II charge under Section 377 B of the Penal Code.
The decision of the Sessions Court judge, S.M. Komathy and the stand of the Solicitor General Datuk Idrus Harun in not opposing bail gives hope that the system of justice is not totally condemned and irredeemable if the professionals in the legal and judicial services are fully freed of political pressures and interferences to discharge their duties to uphold the rule of law and dispense justice.
The person who had come out worst from this morning’s proceedings was not in court at all – the Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi.
Only yesterday, Abdullah was again justifying the Sodomy II prosecution of Anwar on the ground of according “justice” to the accuser, Mohd Saiful Bukhari Azlan, making many Malaysians ask why the Prime Minister has suddenly become the leading spokesman for Anwar’s Sodomy II charge when under the Constitution, the sole prosecution discretionary power is vested in the Attorney-General and not with the Prime Minister or in the Cabinet!
Abdullah made a very pertinent remark yesterday when he was asked by the media whether Saiful would also be charged for sodomy if he was a willing partner, saying:
“You better read your law. If there is rape the accused will have to face action. This is a matter for the law. But I am not lawyer and I won’t get involved. We’ll see what happens in court.”
The import of the Prime Minister’s answer is unmistakable - that Anwar would be charged with sodomy rape, i.e. an offence under Section 377C of the Penal Code which reads:
“377C. Whoever voluntarily commits carnal intercourse against the order of nature on another person without the consent, or against the will, of the other person, or by putting the other person in fear of death or hurt to the person or any other person, shall be punished with imprisonment for a term of not less than five years and not more than twenty years, and shall also be liable to whipping.”.
However, Anwar was not charged under Section 377C but 377B of the Penal Code which reads:
”377B. Whoever voluntarily commits carnal intercourse against the order of nature shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to twenty years, and shall also be liable to whipping.”
As Section 377B is on consensual sodomy as compared to Section 377C on sodomy rape, Anwar had rightly responded after the charge in court this morning: “If it is consensual, why was I the only one being charged? This is a political persecution.”
Section 377B is a “medieval” charge especially when the sentence for it and Section 377C carries a common maximum of 20 years, making no distinction between consensual sodomy or sodomy rape.
But the more important question is what made Abdullah talk about “sodomy rape” in connection with Anwar’s Sodomy II charge yesterday?
This morning’s court proceedings have reinforced perceptions that Anwar’s Sodomy II prosecution is purely political in nature, and that the professionals in the Attorney-General’s Chambers, who had been reluctant and unenthusiastic in pursuing the prosecution, had been overruled by their political masters out on a political rampage against Anwar.
Anwar’s Sodomy II charge has become a new cause celebre but which is of no service to Malaysia, as on trial will not be just Anwar but the whole nation – with the integrity of the system of justice and national institutions in the dock of international opinion.
I call on Abdullah to stop political interferences and allow the professionals in the Attorney-General’s Chambers to rethink and drop the “medieval” prosecution of Anwar in the Sodomy II charge.
August 7th, 2008 at 15: 27.25
Wordless! What to write with this kind of governance? With this kind of PM?
August 7th, 2008 at 15: 27.46
How is this judge? No one wants to see another person who looks like Paul Augustine, sound like Paul Augustine but not Paul Augustine. The court should drop such stupid case soonest. Yes, the prime minister and other ministers should stop their accusation. Abdullah acted exactly like Mahathir in this case
let’s go for the by election! hidup democracy, hidup justice
August 7th, 2008 at 15: 28.11
apparently the doctor who examined saifool has surfaced, and he stood by his findings in the examination of the purported victim under a statutory declaration. the doctor also added that content was added to the statements he gave to police.
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/8/7/nation/20080807150623&sec=nation
August 7th, 2008 at 15: 32.32
all are just the same….
now they put a different face only…
come on they are all “terrorist“
malaysian terrorrist dont carry a gun nor hide their face….
August 7th, 2008 at 15: 36.58
More people who can prove Anwar’s innocence should stand up! I think time has changed and there are more brave people around. On the other hand, those who were reported to have fabricated the case, perhaps including the prime minister and deputy prime minister, should be brought to justice.
In the next court appearance, Anwar could be the prime minster and Uncle Lim the deputy prime minister!
August 7th, 2008 at 15: 39.16
Bolehland is doomed with the idioted sleepy head who doesn’t know what he is talking.
August 7th, 2008 at 15: 39.31
Dear YB Lim
I have some bright ideas to promote government efficiency in Malaysia:
Set up a “BN University” with the following departments and schools:
a. Medical school with a “Department of Anal Anatomy and Anal Pathology” (the aim is to train Malaysian experts to detect
sexual assault/nonconsensual sodomy more quickly.)
b. Law school to train legal staff who can achieve high conviction rates (the aim is to train legal staff who can get the accused convicted quickly and not drag out proceedings and waste tax payer money)
c. Journalism school to train reporters and mass media people to be better propagandists and spin doctors (since it looks like the present batch of KJ-appointees are not up to the job)
d. Economics department to train government economic advisors who
can closely monitor the price of primary commodities such as oil so that government subsidies can be adjusted quickly with minimal delay (preferably downwards)whenever there are siginificant price movements.
e. Finally, there should be a school of police science to train more efficient and effective police officers. Not only to catch common criminals but also other categories of criminals who are more detrimental to national security and stability.
Phua Kai Lit
August 7th, 2008 at 15: 42.12
i support LKS as deputy PM but the archaic and inefficient moderation rule in tis blog must first be removed.
August 7th, 2008 at 15: 47.21
Indeed we shoild rightly praise those who uphold the law and their oath of office to administer justice without fear or favour. Therefore kudos to Madam Komathy and our SG.
On what basis is the charge of 377(b) preferred against DSAI? As we all know the police report is one of forcible sodomy.Clearly no consensus here. If the police has another police report they sure are not telling us. But I am calling their bluff. Can the charge then stand without a complainant?
PM has sympathy for Saiful as he has been cast as the victim and treated Anwar with scorn as being the perpretrator. Now that it has been revealed that it was consensual, I wonder what PM reaction woukd be.
August 7th, 2008 at 15: 51.53
There is no case, why amounted to a charge??? there is no evidence. there is only a complaint lodged and doctor’s findings have clearly stated no sodomy. In this case, it has to be dropped ? full stop.
August 7th, 2008 at 16: 02.53
I think Saiful will be deeply disappointed to know that Anwar will not be charged with assaulting him, but that he had given consent.
Like anwar says, when will Saiful be charged for ‘abetting’ in this crime?
August 7th, 2008 at 16: 20.21
Ridiculous to ‘blue’ or ‘Uncle LA’!
Direct or indirectly burning or polluting (M)!
Trapping us into economic disaster or worst war zone!
Dirties politic threats by ‘blue’ & ‘Uncle LA’!
Waste$ upon charging or suing PR leader-&-warriors’!
What’re their party contribution?
Nothing! Do nothing! Know nothing!
Only know ‘makan’ ‘makan’ ‘makan’ coward-&-timid!
Most recent days, so much cases was disclosed and been informed all were under investigation or proceeding! Only eye-on cases lodged, but till now no one ‘big fish’ was charged or bailed or transparently disclosure!
No offensive. ‘Uncle LA’ or related bodies, what’s your percentage rate give upon your process or effectiveness? i.e. mongolian murder case, legal-justice, mercedes-&-proton, or ex-’18 big(even now grow became biggest-or-huge) fishes as mentioned by yourself? Any update or law suits or arrest action against those matters above? Come on, if can’t kept your promise; stay cool and keep silent, never-ever commit it lie on us repeat-&-repeat…!
100++% regret and disappointed to ‘blue’ - & - ‘Uncle LA’!
Sincere or in hope 308 qualified citizen stay together, especially Permatang Pauh people, show ‘blue’ or ‘Uncle LA’ what you needs, regain your (our) or our next generations’ rewards or benefits!
PR victory, En. Anwar victory, is your victory, 308-&-826 voter victory! Cheers up! Go home and appreciate your right(vote)! Celebration is awaiting you!
TQ.
Warmest regards.
August 7th, 2008 at 16: 24.26
“As Section 377B is on consensual sodomy as compared to Section 377C on sodomy rape, Anwar had rightly responded after the charge in court this morning: “If it is consensual, why was I the only one being charged? This is a political persecution.” - Uncle Lim.
—————————————————————
Good question.
This question should be directly answer by Pak Lah & Najib.
August 7th, 2008 at 16: 26.21
Kit,
What is even more frightening is the hounding of Dr Osman by the police. I wonder what the medical fraternity has got to say.
Is there a need to hound him. Why the need to amend his original statement and why the need to threaten with him?
Would the police go after all doctors who certify rape and sodomy victims ‘clean’.
This is blatant abuse of power. Is this what the PM calls Rule of Law?
August 7th, 2008 at 16: 26.52
It’s a big joke but I cannot laugh, maybe it is not funny anymore. I am sick of it, thinking about another stupid statement from Abdullah certainly make me sicker. Yes, this should stop here.
August 7th, 2008 at 16: 27.50
I think Saiful now is in fear, not only he had againts the 90% of the Malaysian, but also will face charge for sodomy as well! Saiful, if you are a man, please stand up and tell everybody the truth, no more lie! Because god will punish those lier and born a son without arse! Watchout Saiful!!!
August 7th, 2008 at 16: 29.48
PM, THE CHAMPION OF SODOMIZED VICTIM SPEAKS
No other head of a government anywhere in the world would have come out so strongly in defense of the welfare and rights of an alleged sodomized victim. Never mind if the crime has yet to proven in court, but he is already taking sides when in all probability, the ‘victim’ could be lying.
And mind you, these were said even before Anwar has been charged in court.
And yet he says, “..I won’t get involved”. What do you think?
Let’s take a look at what he said recently:
“This man pleads for justice. We care about (Anwar) more than we care about this man? That is very odd. He needs justice; that is what he is crying for. We cannot ignore that.” (AP July 31)
“The complainant is (Mohd) Saiful (Bukhari Azlan). He wants to seek justice in a court of law. We cannot ignore him (Saiful), as though he is unimportant. Everyone is important. The process of law is important. Everyone has the right to seek justice.”
(Bernama Aug 1)
“Don’t forget there is another person, Saiful. You seem to have forgotten Saiful and you think Anwar is more important. This the issue of the law.” (The Star Aug 7)
“You (referring to the journalists) better read your law. If there is a rape the accused will have to face action. This is matter for the law. But I am not a lawyer and I won’t get involved. We’ll see what happens in court.” The Star Aug 7)
http://mrsmith2.blogspot.com
August 7th, 2008 at 16: 32.18
Kit,
A suggestion. It would be more fitting if you could use the terms - SODOMY CONSPIRACY I OR SODOMY CONSPIRACY II.
There was no sodomy to speak of.
August 7th, 2008 at 16: 32.49
Can we trust our mata-mata? Our mata-mata can be more medical than our medical officer. They can ‘ka liu’ to our reports. Wonderfully efficient!
Why are our mata-mata referred to as ‘Royal’ or ‘DiRaja’?
August 7th, 2008 at 16: 34.13
It looks like sodomy, it sounds like sodomy, but it’s really doremi.
August 7th, 2008 at 16: 35.06
Doesn’t everybody know by now that what AAB says in public is exactly the opposite? There have been mounting examples of this, remember? No increase of oil prices, the dissolution of parliament, the DPM position to PAS, or the premiership to Najis, the sodomy charge, and not forgetting all the pledges he made? So just remember that if he says DSAI is guilty, the real truth is just the opposite - NOT GUILTY.
August 7th, 2008 at 16: 35.32
Abdullah talked about “sodomy rape” because he wanted to convey the message that Saiful is the victim, an innocent person who must be protected, whereas, Anwar is the perpetrator who must be brought to justice. By using the term “sodomy rape”, Abdullah made sure that Saiful is not prosecuted but Anwar, an “irritant” to him, is charged, convicted and locked up. If Abdullah were to use the term “consensual sodomy” then both Saiful and Anwar may end up in the lock-up and this is not what Abdullah and his gang want.
August 7th, 2008 at 16: 40.18
How come suddenly AAB is sooooo smart?
August 7th, 2008 at 16: 42.54
///But the more important question is what made Abdullah talk about “sodomy rape” in connection with Anwar’s Sodomy II charge yesterday?/// - YB Kit
The short answer is that the complaint itself by Saiful to the police at first instance was sodomy was perpetrated “tiada kerelaan saya” (without consent).
[Of course Saiful could not have said in the report that it was consensual because otherwise he will be equally implicated too in voluntarily engaging “in carnal intercourse against the order of nature” under 377B].
However having said that, it is equally as ridiculous for someone like Saiful to voluntarily follow the accused to Desa Damansara Condo and then allege rape – especially when Saiful also claimed that these acts were perpetrated on him several times overseas (in HK & Paris etc) about which then he had no complaint!
I have commented on other occasions in other threads the near impossibility of proving “coercion” and force in this case.
So based on record or whatever evidence of association so far (including CCTV footages) any professional in the legal and judicial services will think any attempt to proceed the charge on basis of sodomy that is ‘forced’ (under section 377C) would be implausible and impossible to prove beyond reasonable doubt – and that if a charge is to be made at all that has the remotest chance of success, and not sound ridiculous, it would have to be consensual sodomy under section 377B.
However to proceed on consensual sodomy under section 377B will immediately implicate Saiful who also needs to be charged but if he were charged why would he cooperate to give state evidence to implicate Anwar? And if he were not charged when only Anwar was charged, everyone will complain selective enforcement of law and justice which will make the proceedings again lacking in credibility.
That is the dilemma that I have on occasions also commented in the past and suggested that they should have given up this whole non starter scheme of prosecuting on such a charge at the outset rather than embark on a course of proceedings that, once started, will not, make the State look good, in either cases whether it throws a section 377B (voluntary) or 377C (forced)…..
I also said that they are in a state where like an ant with its head lopped off [using Taiking’s “headless” ant analogy (posting at 18:17.33 in thread "headless 2 year transition], decisions are made based on reflex of fear and fire fighting measures without strategic vision.
, with
August 7th, 2008 at 16: 43.22
If indeed this is consensual sodomy as charged, I cannot understand why Saiful needs to complain about Anwar. In fact, he has a lot more to gain than lose by having a close relationship with Anwar. On the other hand, had it been sodomy rape (which it wasn’t), I also cannot understand why a young man would admit to being raped by an older man. Saiful is only 23 years’ old. Why would he want to carry this “stigma” for the rest of his life as well as mess up the lives of his fiancé and family?
Mr. Stupid Prime Minister, why oh why do you want to champion the cause an ordinary citizen (who most likely does not pay tax) at the risk of dragging the whole economy down the gutter if it is not your devious and evil plot to bring Anway down?
August 7th, 2008 at 16: 43.48
Yes…It is a day of fair justice performed.
Police created road blocks again ..in K.L.
This reminds me of my naughty son….having nightmares…telling lies to me.
I think some police leaders are having nightmares…same think..supporting lies.
August 7th, 2008 at 16: 46.12
After all the hooha, the DNA piece is missing!
As the world’s epicenter in sodomy DNA, it’s very irresponsible of the gov to leave it out. Bring back the DNA and glory!!!!
August 7th, 2008 at 16: 57.25
How can there be a “victim” when the charge is for consensual unnatural sex ? And why wasn’t the other party to consensual unnatural sex charged ?
August 7th, 2008 at 17: 00.50
Forget Annuar. Charge Saiful. I said it before I will say it again…. this time when the boy cried wolf… he never mentioned rape.
So he must have been a willing participant. Even if he wasnt, I dont see why they cant prosecute him. At least to prove his innocence. haha.
Reminds me of the girls with kids in Pakistan languishing in jails because they were pregnant and couldnt name the fathers. They had been raped but…. the court chooses to see it as adultery.
The logic defies me. This is going to be one scary ride. I should quit reading novels. Is anyone going to sell this story ah? Syndicate it?
And here I was thinking the Kennedy assasination was fascinating.
August 7th, 2008 at 17: 01.06
melurian, Badawi’s personal statistician, said in another thread:
“anyway, sodomy just like 1998 is apparently “non-bailable” offence. so 33% chance pkr (with anwar) wins pp ruled out”
Now, melurian, what are the chances of a PKR win now that Anwar is out on bail ? 10 pct ?
August 7th, 2008 at 17: 09.57
rubbish! pure rubbish. Let’s just hope DSAI gets the justice he greatly deserves…
August 7th, 2008 at 17: 10.02
The good-for-nothing bodohwi & sex-crazed najis are both so very scared & desperate that they are now zombies with no brain functions. We the rakyat must NEVER allow these 2 “privileged” criminals who are currently basking in their @#%^ immunity from being charged for all their crimes & sins to escape scot-free.
He who cavorts with the Devil will get due payback from the Evil One. Mark my words………….
August 7th, 2008 at 17: 11.33
READING THE FOLLOWING, SOME ONE SHOULD REPORT TO ACA (if it is not toothless) TO MAKE AN INVESTIGATION. WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE POLICE? SHOULDN’T WE OVERHAUL THE WHOLE POLICE NOW? THE MAJOR PROBLEM IS THE TOP OF THE POLICE
Dr Mohamed Osman said that some time in early July, he was visited by an officer from the Brickfields district police’s criminal division, ASP Rosmi Mat Derus, who interviewed him about the medical examination on Mohd Saiful.
He said ASP Rosmi recorded the statement in Bahasa Malaysia, in his own handwriting, which he did not understand.
The following week the same officer returned with a typed statement in Bahasa Malaysia for him to read and sign.
However, Dr Mohamed Osman said certain facts that were not discussed in the previous meeting had been introduced in the typed statement, namely Anwar’s name.
Dr Mohamed Osman claimed Anwar’s name was never brought up during the first interview and Mohd Saiful also never confided to him about the identity of the alleged perpetrator.
“About a week later I was visited by a plainclothes police officer by the name of DSP Choo from the criminal division of the Jalan Hang Tuah district police, who impressed on me that I would be charged if I refused to cooperate with the police,” he added.
August 7th, 2008 at 17: 23.57
Why does Saiful seek “justice” when he was not raped? According to the charge, he was a consenting partner and allowed himself willingly to be buggered. Does a woman who have consensual sex with a man go about seeking justice against the man? What is this justice he and Abdullah Badawi talked about? Is he going to swear on the Koran that he was raped when the charge sheet says it was a consensual act? Will now swearing be admission that he is guilty of “unnatural sex” and subject himself to prosecution?
August 7th, 2008 at 17: 27.22
Well, Anwar could be arrested again, he was out on bail with uncertainty.
But will UMNO members stop themselves from being slapped by Abdullah in the face over and over again, or perhaps they should stop Abdullah from slapping himself in the face over and over again till 2010? It is time to jump ship don’t you think?
August 7th, 2008 at 17: 27.23
Do you know why it is consensual sodomy now instead of sodomy rape??? it is because there’s no evidence on the use of force during sodomy after the doctor examinations. In order to have a case of sodomy, the prosecution has to charge DSAI under section 377B (Consensual sodomy) instead of 377C (sodomy rape)!!! The leak result of the doctor’s examination of the anal might have changed the prosecutor from charging DSAI from section 377C to 377B, but this lead to the question of why only one party is being charged instead of both parties. Question? question? question?
August 7th, 2008 at 17: 29.35
WHAT A JOKE from the “BN GONE-MEN”!
The WHOLE WORLD IS LAUGHING!
After more than a month of SUSPENSE! THIS IS THE BEST THEY COME OUT WITH!
August 7th, 2008 at 17: 34.58
Saiful will not be prosecuted as he was the whistle blower and witness which BN govt needs!!! At the worst case scenario, he will be prosecuted, too, as there’s no loss to BN govt by doing so!!!
August 7th, 2008 at 17: 42.42
Can anyone offer me an answer on who is the complainant for sonsensual sodomy? As I know Saiful report to the police is that he was forcibly sodomised. Is the police the complainant? Help me I am going bonkers!
August 7th, 2008 at 17: 45.20
Saiful will change his story to telling lies if he is being charged together with DSAI, so he will continue to stick to his story until he could not take the pressure anymore, by then, the prosecution might drop the case and charge Saiful for some minor offence. At the end of the day, DSAI will not be convicted but only after a long long trial and many many postpones!!!
August 7th, 2008 at 17: 46.28
Vote for BN vote for Saiful
Vote for PKR vote for Justice to Anwar and his family.
Let’s all Penangites living in Permatang Pauh, stop doing your work for a day and make the right choice.
August 7th, 2008 at 17: 49.09
As usual, Police can change the statement anytime to suit the script of the master scriptwriter non other than the top guns of the BN govt!!!
August 7th, 2008 at 17: 54.00
In the coming “Mother of All By-Elections” on 26th August, the umno candidate needs to be trashed until he loses his deposit.
August 7th, 2008 at 18: 02.11
i think the whole of Penang, not just PP, should stop work for a day. Just take a day off, stay at home, go the beach, or go to PP to show your support. Think strategic, you can’t fight with water cannon and tear gas. If police block you from going to work, then stop going. Never mind, we may become poorer but the nation will eventually become richer.
August 7th, 2008 at 18: 02.48
I want to urge the voters of Pematang pauh to vote for ANWAR IBRAHIM and let the BN candidate lost his deposit.We want the PR to set up new government,BN is too corrupt and hopeless,cheer for a new Malaysia.A Malaysia for all races..Cheers for the DSAI..VICTORY FOR THE FIRST STEP..
August 7th, 2008 at 18: 05.35
Come to think of it, has UMNO-BN ever lost deposit in an election before? Why not create history, the people of PP? When PM said UMNO will find a candidate to stand against Anwar, may be that is the indication they will not get a candidate!
August 7th, 2008 at 18: 17.36
There are a lot of question marks in this sodomy trial.
Hamid said Saiful was the complainant in this consensual sodomy case and he would not be charged. Is this the law of Bolehland - complainant who participated in consensual sodomy will not be charged?
Would a person, who participated in consensual sodomy, be so silly to make a police report??
The fact is that Saiful filed a complaint stating that Anwar Ibrahim had FORCIBLY sodomized him. Why is the case now changed to “consensual sodomy” and who changed it?
August 7th, 2008 at 18: 25.26
A charge of voluntary sodomy under 377B poses a dilemma to Saiful in that he either have to admit that (1) he is a voluntary participant to “carnal intercourse against the order of nature” as stated in 377B or (2) he has concocted the whole story for certain motives, there being no other third option since the State has eliminated the option of forcible sodomy or anal rape under 377C.
August 7th, 2008 at 18: 30.00
A charge of voluntary sodomy under 377B poses an equal dilemma to the State in that (1) if Saiful were a voluntary participant to “carnal intercourse against the order of nature” as stated in 377B, then it is practising selective prosecution in not charging Saiful as well or (2) in not charging Saiful it is because he was never, in reality, engaged in voluntary sodomy with anyone including Anwar thereby exonerating Anwar and implicating the State indirectly in an inference of malicious prosecution, there being again no third option that would otherwise makes sense.
August 7th, 2008 at 18: 33.08
I cannot believe the PP is so stupid to charge DSAI under 377B of the Penal Code. It’s a charge of carnal intercourse (CI) with consent. If both parties consented and CI is a crime, shouldn’t both parties be charged?
DSAI is absolutely right to pose this simple question which begs an answer. Let’s see when Saiful will be charged if ever or will the PP say Saiful is not charged in return for being a material witness against DSAI? If so they would have created more doubts in the public. I cannot help wondering whose side the PP, police or Saiful is on or are they just making blunders after blunders.
August 7th, 2008 at 18: 37.31
It just show clearly why the govt. want to neutralize Anwar, becos he is brilliant compared to Bodohwi who is plain stupid at times.
He would be smarter to just shut his mouth up.
August 7th, 2008 at 18: 38.07
Again we witnessed more abuses carried out by PDRM as per RPK’s latest revelation of SD by Dr Osman.
Allow me to reiterate that PDRM in its present state is a complete liability to all Malaysians and needs a complete revamp. Yes, only an outsider can do the job as none currently in the force has shown enough courage, morality nor substance to carry out his/her duties without prejudice or favour.
The rule of law in Malaysia has deteriorated into abject law of the hutan rimba. What’s the point of talking about rules of law when AAB is so clueless himself?
August 7th, 2008 at 18: 41.28
Petition to Agung for justice:
http://www.petitiononline.com/6ai18u26/petition.html
August 7th, 2008 at 18: 45.50
Of course one third option, if ever it is one, is to revert to the rape charge under 377C. However if this were done, the case of “force” would be implausible because (a) Saiful voluntarily followed the accused to Desa Damansara Condo which is inconsistent with non consensual relationship (b) Saiful also claimed that these acts were perpetrated on him several times overseas (in HK & Paris etc) about which then he had no complaint, also inconsistent with non consensual relationship (c) no one would believe 60 over year old man could force a younger likely physically more fit man and (d) medical reports in Puswari & GH testified to no forced entry : net net also no case.
Ultimate the only choice is to abandon and drop this whole non starter scheme of prosecuting on such a charge in the first place that, whichever way (sideway, backway or front way) one looks at it, is not workable and would put the State in an untenable position and various difficult to solve dilemmas.
August 7th, 2008 at 18: 47.15
“THIS IS THE FINAL ROUND!”
August 7th, 2008 at 18: 50.48
Sing to the tune of Give Me Hope, Joanna ( by Eddy Grant )
Well Bodowi, he runs our country
with his cronies all in Bolehland
He makes a few of his people happy, oh
He don’t care about the rest of us
He’s got the ISA and PDRM
To keep the Rakyat in a subjection
But maybe Pakatan can make Barisan see
How everybody could a live as one
[chorus:]
Gimme hope, Malaysia
Hope, M’sia
Gimme hope, Malaysia
‘Fore the morning come
Gimme hope, Malaysia
Hope, M’sia
Hope before the morning come
Bolehland gives all the ‘dirty’ money
To buy supporters in the elections
While every Rakyat in our country fears
the framing of another son
Manupulating with all his cronies,
who likes to lie and play ‘belakang’
He doesn’t care if the Rakyat feels
sodomized and vulnerable
[chorus]
He’s got supporters in high up places
Who plays a tune to his ugly song
Bodowi give them the fancy titles
Oh to tempt anyone who’d come
He even knows how to swing opinion
In every newspaper and the journals
For every bad move Bolehlanh makes
They got a good explanation
[chorus]
Even the Imams who works for Allah
and the preachers, they’re peaceful men
Together say Pakatan Rakyat
Will overcome Barisan
I wanna know if you’re blind, Bodowi
If you wanna hear the sound of drums
Can’t you see that the tide is turning
Oh don’t make us wait till the morning come
August 7th, 2008 at 19: 19.00
Could the reason to pursue anwar under 377B be a pre-emption of anwar’s defence that given his age and his lower back problem he was in no position physically to overwhelm the will and resistance of the boy of 23?
Of course, that section would effectively turn the boy into anwar’s partner in crime. And for that pari delicto he would be. So, what justice is pm talking of when he said saiful too needs justice - a statement which is clearly based on the idea of victimisation in the hands of anwar?
Who gave pm the idea that saiful was a victim of sodomy? Could it be saiful himself? If so then clearly, something is amissed. He complained to the police that he was a victim of sodomy. He went to the press with very much the same consistent story. That was the impression I got from reading the papers. Did he actually tell pm the same thing too? If he did, then the 377B charge is quite clearly wrong. There was no consensual intercourse of the unnatural sort between him and anwar and so 377C must be preferred instead.
PM must be cross-examined on this.
August 7th, 2008 at 19: 25.42
Our stupid PM said “You seem to forget saiful here”, “you are only thinking of Anwar”. Yeah lah you sleeping PM, are you talking cock, you are the one going after Anwar and forgot about charging Saifool. How about the murderer that sit beside you during the press conference? How about the Mongolian girl who was brutally murdered? How about Bala who just dissapeared? I hope bodowi and najis know that god will be judging them and i hope they end up in HELL for all their sin.
August 7th, 2008 at 19: 34.00
All I can see is that they have manoeuvred themselves into a catch 22 situation
for which the best course of action to save face and also more honourable is to
the prosecution as suggested by YB.
August 7th, 2008 at 19: 35.22
Oops …..”……………………………………is to drop the prosecution…….”.
August 7th, 2008 at 19: 46.42
it is much harder for them to prove tat anwar sodomized a strong young man hence they charged him with section 377B instead.
August 7th, 2008 at 19: 46.43
The guy who is ful of sai does not worry about the whole world knowing that his sai hole had been poked. He has a sweet, beautiful, supporting, and understanding fiancee standing by him and waiting for him to enjoy her. He also has a sweet lokking uncle Pet as his guardian angel. Guess there will be lots of heavy petting after the trial of the century. Who knows, rolling on piles of sh!!t money too?
August 7th, 2008 at 19: 50.15
Does anyone know how many homosexuals are there among our Cabinet Ministers, judges, police officers, civil servants, university lecturers, …..?
August 7th, 2008 at 19: 58.55
Just heard this statement by Sye Hamid Albar.
According to him Saiful is a complainant and even though the act is consensual, the complainant is free from prosecution!!!!
Ha!Ha!Ha!
Looks like if a man can purposely go and have sex with a male minister and later on claim that he is sodomised. Will the minister be charged.
This gives way to blackmail.
August 7th, 2008 at 20: 04.27
On 31-8-2008, people should wear PR T-shirts and T-shirts showing the portraits of PR leaders to participate in any Merdeka celebration events and open houses. The more the merrier!
August 7th, 2008 at 20: 10.08
Can someone tell me from which University did Syed Hamid Albar get his Law Degree? He must have bought his degree from some quack university.Stupid lawyer, if he is.Saifool being a complainant cannot be charged!
What to complain in the first place when both parties were satisfied with the act?
Section 377B clearly states the word ‘consensual’.Saifool who made the first declaration should have been the first person to be charged.
The problem with Malaysia is we have a bunch of fools from the Prime Minister,Ministers,AG and IGP.
Not only they need to drop the charge against Anwar these people should go and drop themselves in a common well.They think we are a bunch of fools like them!We are smarter than they think.
August 7th, 2008 at 20: 17.14
Why are we still talking about political conspiracy and trumped up charges? Anybody could see that it is!
This is clearly a case of prosecutorial misconduct.
When PR takes over the federal government, these people should be made to answer for it. Acting under orders goes to the issue of mitigation only and is no excuse.
August 7th, 2008 at 20: 19.22
Why should sodomy even be a crime? If it is a private affair, it harms no one. Why should the law dictate how people should lead their lives ?
August 7th, 2008 at 20: 20.22
cinta Malaysia Says:
Today at 20: 10.08 (7 minutes ago)
Can someone tell me from which University did Syed Hamid Albar get his Law Degree? He must have bought his degree from some quack university.Stupid lawyer…”
There is a difference in being stupid and not using your brains. Being stupid is not a crime but not using your brains when you ought to be doing is something else!
August 7th, 2008 at 20: 24.50
“So, what justice is pm talking of when he said saiful too needs justice …” taiking
When you’re not using your brains or what is left of it, and you’re busy listening to what others tell you this is what happens. You get confused between your a*ss and the space between your ears!
August 7th, 2008 at 20: 29.31
………why the accuser also was not charged with the offence.
Syed Hamid, a lawyer by training, attempted to shed some light. “If we look at criminal procedure and criminal cases, the prosecution has always got a choice of charging one or the other. It is just like in corruption case, if a person report for corruption, if the giver is not charged, then the receiver is charged.
“Because you need evidence, and the evidence needs to be corroborated so I think in this case Saiful is the complainant, so the rest of it, leave it to the court.”
http://themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/headlines/42-lead-stories/2669-case-is-not-at-the-polices-insistence-says-syed-hamid
August 7th, 2008 at 20: 29.43
m.hwang Says:
Today at 18: 33.08 (1 hour ago)
I cannot believe the PP is so stupid to charge DSAI under 377B of the Penal Code. It’s a charge of carnal intercourse (CI) with consent.”
This is what happens when the instruction is to charge somebody or anybody - and not charge somebody with a crime he has committed. This is referrred to as the ‘kitchen sink’ strategy! You throw everything you got against the other party - including kitchen sinks!
August 7th, 2008 at 20: 36.49
“Because you need evidence, and the evidence needs to be corroborated so I think in this case Saiful is the complainant, so the rest of it, leave it to the court.” Syed Hamid
Here the Minister is seen unwittingly to be showing the mind or minds involved in the prosecution.
They are concerned not with the commission of a crime they honestly believed to have been committed so much as looking to see under which law and under which section of which law the accused could be charged! Something akin to putting the cart before the horse - or worse!
August 7th, 2008 at 20: 39.55
Jeffrey QC,
Most of us do not care about going into hypotheticals. The case stinks and in my opinion they will not be able to make the charge stick.
August 7th, 2008 at 20: 43.08
_love_malaysia Says:
Today at 17: 34.58 (3 hours ago)
Saiful will not be prosecuted as he was the whistle blower and witness which BN govt needs!!! ”
We want to know if he had blown anything else apart from his whistle.
August 7th, 2008 at 20: 47.18
Mr Smith says,
“Kit,
A suggestion. It would be more fitting if you could use the terms - SODOMY CONSPIRACY I OR SODOMY CONSPIRACY II.”
A conspiracy is a conspiracy. The offence is the offence of conspiracy (to defraud, to subvert the course of justice etc).
August 7th, 2008 at 20: 48.26
In the case of Razak Baginda, the offence is the offence of conspiracy to murder (Altantuya).
August 7th, 2008 at 20: 49.27
Talking of conspiracies, it is never easy to prove conspiracy.
August 7th, 2008 at 20: 50.14
THERE IS SOMETHING SINISTER TO THE GOVT’S GAME PLAN- THEY ARE NOT GOING AFTER DSAI BUT HIS ALIBIS- WITH THIS CHARGE THEY WANT TO FLUSH OUT THOSE WHO WERE MEETING WITH DSAI TO DISCUSS THE CROSS OVERS
LETS PRAY THESE INDIVIDUALS WILL STAND TRUE TO THEIR CONVICTION AND NOT LET DSAI DOWN BUT DENYING TO THE CONTRARY……………………………….
MAY GOD BE WITH DSAI IN THIS PROCESS OF CHANGE
August 7th, 2008 at 20: 51.55
A new product in the poultry department in supermarkets, “Saiful Ass” instead of Bishop’s Nose!!! Brand new delicacy from Malaysia, land of diversed gourmet!
August 7th, 2008 at 20: 53.06
PLEASE DO NOT LET DSAI DOWN BY DENYING TO THE CONTRARY-
DSAI I THINK YOU NEED MORE THAN SUN TZU’S WISDOM TO GET YOURSELF OUT OF THIS
August 7th, 2008 at 20: 59.19
boh-liao Says:
Today at 19: 50.15 (1 hour ago)
Does anyone know how many homosexuals are there among our Cabinet Ministers, judges, police officers, civil servants, university lecturers, …..?”
They are what we call closet homosexuals and we will not know.
In the developed world, the sexual orientation of an individual is no longer the concern of the state. Are you saying the fact that someone is a confirmed homosexual - a gay or lesbian - means he is unfit to hold public office?
I agree that would be the implication under Sec. 377A, B and C of our Penal Code. Hence, Kit’s reference to medieval laws and medieval prosecution.
August 7th, 2008 at 21: 03.20
PM AAB only wanted Anwar charged in court. Whether the case sticks or not, Anwar would be busy answering it whereas AAB would only be waiting for the final results without effort.
Has PM AAB anything to lose in this case? Theoretically yes, his reputation. But since he has nothing left of it, he has nothing to lose.
August 7th, 2008 at 21: 04.13
//Syed Hamid, a lawyer by training, attempted to shed some light. “If we look at criminal procedure and criminal cases, the prosecution has always got a choice of charging one or the other. It is just like in corruption case, if a person report for corruption, if the giver is not charged, then the receiver is charged.// - Malaysianinsider
In a report for Sodomy, Saiful was “receiver”, why was he not charged?
August 7th, 2008 at 21: 16.07
Somebody should make some very serious assessment on this Mohd Saiful Bukhari Azlan person. He is more questionable than any others. Attack and counter attack. Somebody attack PKR. In return, somebody else attack MCA aka BN.
August 7th, 2008 at 21: 16.30
Home Minister Syed Hamid Albar said Saiful was not charged because he “has become the primary witness for this case.”
“He is the complainant. If we charge a complainant, it will not be possible (for him to be the key witness),” he told reporters. - YAHOO ASIA NEWS.
August 7th, 2008 at 21: 20.43
Sorry to sidetrack.
….And perfectly good assets that belonged to the taxpayer like Avenue Capital were sold to ECM Libra – a private company owned by Kalimullah Hassan, KHAIRY JAMALUDIN and others. Obviously the cash rich GLCs are being directed to do these things.
http://us3.malaysia-today.net/2008/content/view/10983/1/
August 7th, 2008 at 21: 25.14
That Humid Elbow idiot does not know when to shut up.. what a stupid thing to say, some more during the MoU signing ceremony between Malaysian and Australian Governments.
The shame, the shame…
August 7th, 2008 at 21: 29.43
How about the prosecution team holding close to their chest this evidence-
”A video(like VK Lingam’s) showing an act of consensual sodomy between DSAI and Sayfool”.
The prosecution then cannot charge under 377c as the video looks like a consensual act of them
So they charge it under 377b which is supporting this video.
Look at Sayfool/prosecution team/police .
They are not bothered even Anwar bring 100 lawyers or 100 medical reports .
Remember Sayfool is a mole!
Remember this is a game of perception!
Lawyers pls think on this possibility.
August 7th, 2008 at 21: 38.08
yhsiew Says:
Today at 21: 16.30 (17 minutes ago)
Home Minister Syed Hamid Albar said Saiful was not charged because he “has become the primary witness for this case.”
That is correct.
But there is nothing that stands in the way of his prosecution for contempt of court if he is caught lying under oath.
August 7th, 2008 at 21: 41.27
“But since he has nothing left of it, he has nothing to lose.” Loh
Yes, he has everything to lose - his job!
August 7th, 2008 at 21: 58.14
Syed Hamid, a lawyer by training, attempted to shed some light. …..Syed Hanid Albar:…If we look at criminal procedure and criminal cases, the prosecution has always got a choice of charging one or the other. It is just like in corruption case, if a person report for corruption, if the giver is not charged, then the receiver is charged.
“Because you need evidence, and the evidence needs to be corroborated so I think in this case Saiful is the complainant, so the rest of it, leave it to the court.”
http://themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/headlines/42-lead-stories/2669-case-is-not-at-the-polices-insistence-says-syed-hamid…..
Based on the same principle of Syed Hamid—-
so if Mr A and Mr B jointly planned and murdered Mr C.. After that Mr A reported that Mr B and himself has murdered Mr C… the only Mr B should be charged with murder….Mr B walked away as a free man (same as Saiful)….
so is this justice? …….perhaps for Jungle Law…it is.
August 7th, 2008 at 21: 59.20
“I am not one to ask people to charge (other people). I did say that if you have something to charge and you have evidence then charge. If you don’t have evidence then drop the charge, drop the whole thing and the investigation.” Abdullah Badawi
This statement shows clearly he is not in charge! Guess who is in charge? You don’t have to be a rocket scientist or someone going off his rocker to know.
August 7th, 2008 at 21: 59.34
AAB is a disgrace to all Malaysians, more so UMNO members. What Mazlan Harun did was right. Eventhough ACA may not take action against PM and DPM, it is an eye opener to all UMNO members. Most of them are blind and they are swayed by racist sentiments.
August 7th, 2008 at 22: 00.11
yb kit, dont be too fast to heap praises especially when those reports are favorable to us. It is just the beginning. What will you do if the full justice of law is served and dsai is found guilty? will you abadon your new found good friend?
August 7th, 2008 at 22: 00.44
Dr Mohamed Osman Abdul Hamid is standing by his decision in a SD !!! So glad that we still have someone who is so brave after the Bala case.
I wonder if he will make another SD tomorrow ? or disappear ? Hmmm…. so complicated.
Even a small kid would not believe the sodomy case against Anwar now.
First thing when PR in power is to release Hindraf and ISA detainees or at least give them a fair trial. Not dropping fuel price 1st.
August 7th, 2008 at 22: 05.16
“In the developed world, the sexual orientation of an individual is no longer the concern of state.Are you saying that fact that someone is a confirmed homosexual-a gay or lesbian-means he is unfit to hold public office?”.undergrad2
Kevin Rudd the Prime Minister of Australia has knowingly taken in Penny Wong a lesbian as his Minister of Climate Change and Water.Why knowingly you may ask.That because Penny a Malaysian-born lawyer is a self confessed lesbian and Rudd’s image is non the worse for it cos Penny is in fact an asset to him for she has been variously described as ‘the smart rising star of Australian politics and a ‘template of Australia’s multicultural future.’.
August 7th, 2008 at 22: 07.46
executive impartial my foot. finally Malaysian get to see the true colors of Bn gov. Royal commision oso no use. all NATO …. No Action Talk Only…
All the ministers should have done what TDM and gang did years ago. shut up and stop showing that you are fools.
August 7th, 2008 at 22: 09.01
do you know why saiful is not charge? I have a very good reason…
They have use the wrong Police to investigate on the matter. They used the police force from the Traffic Dept. These police only know how to charge someone who ‘bang’ on someone else back.
…am i right?…. :))
August 7th, 2008 at 22: 12.46
chewskim: haha. that’s a good one.
the trial is not only against dsai but rule of law, the rakyat & rest of the world watching what sort of fools the malaysian gov are.
August 7th, 2008 at 22: 15.18
SHA’s argument that if you gang rape or gang rob a bank or gang murdered, you report police, you should not be charge because you bring it to Police.
That’s why Saifool not charged.
Did he really studied law ? He should be a cowboy now.
August 7th, 2008 at 22: 18.22
ReformMalaysia Says:
Today at 21: 58.14 (1 minute ago)
“Syed Hamid, a lawyer by training, attempted to shed some light. ….. It is just like in corruption case, if a person report for corruption, if the giver is not charged, then the receiver is charged.”
Technically, and generally speaking there is truth in what he’s saying.
You charge two defendants separately as opposed to jointly depending on the circumstances of the case. Charge one first and call the other (suspect) as witness for the prosecution. In some cases having two suspects charged jointly is better strategically speaking because it forces one to give evidence against the other in an attempt to exculpate himself.
Sometimes it is better to charge them separately depending on the nature of the offence and when evidence is weak; and then use the record of the first court proceedings as evidence in the second.
But this is not a case in point. Hamid is simply kicking a lot of dust so you couldn’t see the issues.
August 7th, 2008 at 22: 27.35
StevePCH Says:
Today at 22: 00.44 (18 minutes ago)
“Dr Mohamed Osman Abdul Hamid is standing by his decision in a SD !!! So glad that we still have someone who is so brave after the Bala case.”
If he is brave and cares for the accused and the course of justice in a country which gave him permanent resident status and a job, he should return to Malaysia to give his testimony in court. His SD alone without him will not carry much weight. A witness has to make himself available for cross-examination to determine the accuracy and veracity of the evidence.
August 7th, 2008 at 22: 32.26
undergrad2..
sorry , didn’t know that he is not in Malaysia….
If he is, he would really be in big trouble.
August 7th, 2008 at 22: 34.29
Eat an egg at precisely 08-08-08 08:08:08 and you will never get an aid like saifool in the rest of your life
August 7th, 2008 at 22: 43.40
what can we expect from Albar? He is a chip of the old block.
His racist father,Syed Haafar Albar was infamous for that racial remark back in 60s where he referred Chinese Malaysians as kaum pendatang or pendatang asing (immigrants) — of being lodgers (orang tumpangan), abusing the hospitality of the Malays who were the “masters of the house” ; and later sacked by Tunku Abdul Rahman, Bapa Malaysia himself…
August 7th, 2008 at 22: 44.32
“SHA’s argument that if….Saifool not charged. Did he really studied law ?…” StevePCH
Why not? He got his law degree from University of E-Bay!
August 7th, 2008 at 22: 51.47
“Kevin Rudd the Prime Minister of Australia has knowingly taken in Penny Wong a lesbian as his Minister…” AhPek
Yes, because the sexual orientation of any individual is irrelevant in this case.
The question that remains is whether Malaysia would like to follow a completely secular law based on the English common law and amend the country’s Penal Code to keep abreast with developments in the developed world - or retain the Penal Code pertainng to homosexual acts as it is because it is in line with Islamic law which sees homosexuality as a sin.
August 7th, 2008 at 22: 53.57
Research amongst fellow linguists pointed to the fact that the word ‘loyar burok’ originated back as early as 1920’s. The label came about because the locals themselves (invariably the elderly or the ’superior’) get easily startled and to a certain degree, envious of people who can speak and articulate well - sit back and observe, the losers in most type of arguments - from education to philosophy to whatever subject, will label the other ‘loyar burok’.
SHA gives all lawyers in Malaysia a bad name!
August 7th, 2008 at 22: 59.15
“Patutkah kita mendakwa orang yang membuat laporan polis, mendakwa kejadian itu berlaku?
“Kita mesti ingat juga bahawa Anwar tidak bersalah sehingga dibuktikan oleh mahkamah,” katanya kepada pemberita di Kuala Lumpur.” — Syed Hamid, as reported by malaysiakini.com
What a hypocrite:
Firstly, as if he doesn’t know that in this country, it is always the whistleblower who gets the punishment (except of course if the whistleblower/accuser is on their side), but he doesn’t say anything on their behalf, except for Saifool.
Secondly, when Anwar was arrested by balaclava-clad commandos, he didn’t come out with that “innocent until proven guilty” statement.
Good try, but we all know a leopard cannot change its spots. And don’t talk one thing, and do the opposite.
August 7th, 2008 at 23: 05.13
“Patutkah kita mendakwa orang yang membuat laporan polis, mendakwa kejadian itu berlaku?” Syed Hamid
Why not? If the allegation is spurious.
August 7th, 2008 at 23: 06.38
“If it is consensual, why was I the only one being charged? This is a political persecution.”
When they realised that a charge of forcible anal rape of a young, strong 23 year old by a 61 year old with a bad back would look ridiculous by any yardstick, they were forced to change it to consensual sodomy in a hurry due to the by election announcement. In their haste, they overlooked the implications just as they overlooked the implications of the original police sodomy report made in similar haste.
August 7th, 2008 at 23: 11.20
“When they realised that a charge of forcible anal rape of a young, strong 23 year old by a 61 year old with a bad back would look ridiculous by any yardstick…”
Maybe Saiful was tied to the bed spreadeagled?
August 7th, 2008 at 23: 11.43
“Saya Mohd Saiful Bukhari b Azlan ingin melaporkan bahawa saya telah diliwat oleh majikan saya. Perkara ini berlaku tanpa kerelaan saya. Kejadian terakhir berlaku 26/6/08 di Unit 1151, Kondominium Desa Damansara, Jln Setia Kasih, KL. Oleh itu, tujuan laporan ini dibuat untuk mendapat pembelaan dan keadilan keatas diri saya. Saya juga berasa bimbang dengan keselamatan diri dan keluarga saya jika perkara ini tersebar luas di khalayak ramai. Majikan saya Dato Seri Anwar Ibrahim - Ketua Umum PKR.”
http://harismibrahim.wordpress.com/
August 7th, 2008 at 23: 19.36
It is hard enough to be sodomised once but eight times - and without your consent?? Sheeesh…!
August 7th, 2008 at 23: 21.07
…and on separate occasions??? Gimee a break!
August 7th, 2008 at 23: 48.17
Maybe Saiful was tied to the bed spreadeagled? udeergrad2
How many men are needed to tie a person up? Then Anwar must have other consipirators. Hmmm, who are these people?
August 7th, 2008 at 23: 49.57
The report made by Saiful sounds like one written by a lawyer after careful thought. What you do think, undergrad2?
August 7th, 2008 at 23: 50.11
Maybe, Wan Azizah and daughter??
August 7th, 2008 at 23: 51.17
“The report made by Saiful sounds like one written by a lawyer after careful thought.” limkamput
More like without a thought.
August 7th, 2008 at 23: 53.56
“How many men are needed to tie a person up?”
Maybe he handcuffed himself to the bed?
August 7th, 2008 at 23: 55.42
Maybe Saiful and Anwar were playing cops and robbers. Anwar changed his mind and instead played something else.
August 7th, 2008 at 23: 56.39
seriously, look at these:
1.telah diliwat oleh majikan saya, (power over him)
2.Perkara ini berlaku tanpa kerelaan saya. (rape)
3.Kejadian terakhir berlaku 26/6/08 di Unit 1151, Kondominium Desa Damansara, Jln Setia Kasih, KL. (implying a series of rape)
3.Saya juga berasa bimbang dengan keselamatan diri dan keluarga saya jika perkara ini tersebar luas di khalayak ramai. (to show Anwar may harm him)
August 8th, 2008 at 00: 10.46
‘AhPek Says:
Today at 22: 05.16 (1 hour ago)Kevin Rudd the Prime Minister of Australia has knowingly taken in Penny Wong a lesbian as his Minister of Climate Change and Water.Why knowingly you may ask.That because Penny a Malaysian-born lawyer is a self confessed lesbian and Rudd’s image is non the worse for it cos Penny is in fact an asset to him for she has been variously described as ‘the smart rising star of Australian politics and a ‘template of Australia’s multicultural future.’
We also have a lesboff in the cabinet. That doesn’t seem to be an issue. Why should it?
August 8th, 2008 at 00: 11.33
But if we have a racist lesboff now that’s an issue!
August 8th, 2008 at 00: 18.31
A dyke in the cabinet as in a closet or as in Abdullah’s Cabinet”
August 8th, 2008 at 00: 20.11
Should be both lah!
August 8th, 2008 at 00: 23.15
Maybe Saiful and Anwar were playing cops and robbers. Anwar decided to rob him of his virginity instead?
August 8th, 2008 at 00: 24.34
syed botak said at the press statement clarify that saifool is not charged becos he is the ‘plaintiff’ that’s the way he impressed;n by 377B,it concerns ‘inconcensus’…does that make sense??a non law practioner should even know that but not this malaysia minister who is supposed to be ‘lowyer’!!he is jus a shame to malaysia.
August 8th, 2008 at 00: 25.17
“But if we have a racist lesboff now that’s an issue!”
Oh my!
August 8th, 2008 at 00: 25.44
The justice is not here any more!
August 8th, 2008 at 00: 28.40
kosmoalpha Says:
Today at 00: 24.34 (58 seconds ago)
syed botak said at the press statement clarify that saifool is not charged becos he is the ‘plaintiff’ ..”
So he cannot differentiate between criminal and civil proceedings? Let’s give the guy some credit. He is after all a lawyer.
August 8th, 2008 at 00: 28.50
by the way,jus too bad;malaysiatoday is in ‘trouble’ again! can anyone update what’s happening??one can log in but no response for members area…..
August 8th, 2008 at 00: 36.40
Yes m.hwang,but our lesboff is a Abdullah’s closet, kept away from public knowledge until that RPK chappy spill it out in the police station.
August 8th, 2008 at 00: 39.14
The charge against Anwar has raised some troubling questions:
1) He was charged for consensual sodomy. This puts his accuser who has publicly maintained that he was forcibly sodomized in a fix. If he agrees to testify on the basis of consensual sodomy, he impugns his own reputation and lays himself open to similar charge. The Syariah court may also be after him. Will the accuser now become a hostile witness for the prosecution?
2) In 1998 the date of Anwar’s alleged offense was finally stated to cover a range of 3 months to make it difficult for him to defend by alibi. The present charge specifically states a specific date and time. The police having obtained Anwar’s statement would have known that Anwar has ironclad alibi at the material date and time. Why are they setting themselves up for failure?
3) Why did the powers that be allow a fair judge to hear the case? Shouldn’t someone like Augustine Paul be given the task?
Based on the above, I believe the A-G chambers has no reasonable hope of convicting Anwar and they know it. They could have been pressured from the top to prefer charges against Anwar and are setting up the charge and the judge to spite the unseen hand.
And who would that unseen hand be? Who was so eager to have Anwar charged that he went around declaring that Saiful cries for justice?
The conspiracy is breaking apart. Whoever is responsible should just drop the charges before the government is humiliated in court.
August 8th, 2008 at 00: 42.20
today hot punt on ‘empat ekor’ would not be 0808,8080,8088 or 8808 anymore;they would be replaced by 3772 or 3778,inspired by the bodowi’s shameless,wastrel,no conscience n corrupted to core umno/BN regime!!
August 8th, 2008 at 01: 01.41
“The conspiracy is breaking apart. Whoever is responsible should just drop the charges …” Kenny
They couldn’t put their act together in the first place. That’s why it is falling apart.
August 8th, 2008 at 01: 05.54
Whoever is responsible will have to face charges of prosecutorial misconduct later - and the consequences which follow are serious enough for some of them to have second thoughts. Following orders is not a legal defense and goes only to mitigation and sentencing.
August 8th, 2008 at 01: 25.58
‘ the conspiracy is breaking apart’
saifool is 23 yrs old n anwar is 61,
saifool is 6′ n seem to be too mobile n too high for answar to shove it in forcefully!!RPK exposure on the Dr Mohd othman report shows that saifool’s ass was all the while under ‘tender n charming’ care without injury….
that leave the dark side of the force from the umno regime with no joice but jus hav to change it from 377c to 377b!! beware!!buying time tactic in play before they could pull out another trick!!watch my word.
August 8th, 2008 at 01: 40.53
AhPek, the lesboff was quite a hot issue during Dr.M’s reign. I personally have no qualms about it. That’s one’s private business. However recently this minister has been a bit too enthusiastic about Ketuanan Melayu.
KennyGan, you have the gist of the issue in your posts. Some of us are actually scratching our heads as to how our Ministers can blunder as such. Sun Tzu’s Art of War comes to mind i.e.‘What is of extreme importance in war is to upset the enemy’s strategic plans.’ Could this be a case of misapplying a strategy of the great Sun Tzu?
Or could it be as how kosmoalpha terms it, ‘buying time tactic in play before they could pull out another trick!!’
August 8th, 2008 at 01: 57.33
Yes of course one’s sexual orientation or preference is or rather should be one’s private business but as is pointed out this country is still keeping that archaic law on unnatural sex and at the same time Abdullah is Imam of Islam Hadhari.Your outlook or mine do not count.
August 8th, 2008 at 01: 58.44
Correction: ‘………………………….archaic law against unnatural sex………’.
August 8th, 2008 at 02: 02.04
In Australia the public doesn’t give two hoots about one’s sexual
orientation.Certainly not so in Malaysian Public and what’s more they are probably seen as unfit for holding any leadership position.That’s the difference.
August 8th, 2008 at 02: 17.35
how casually they switch from rape to consensual sex.
just like that, they switch the charge to suit the situation.
sodomy is a crime, even by mutual consent, hence they started with rape, so as not to implicate saifool.
now that they have changed to consensual sex, it seems they are even willing to compromise saifool.
August 8th, 2008 at 02: 28.14
sun tzu says, taking over whole cities intact, that is the highest strategy.
in other words, strategy tempered with morals, is the highest strategy.
conversely, strategy without morals, is a short-sighted one.
August 8th, 2008 at 02: 30.20
What justice for Saiful is the PM talking about when the charge now is for consensual sodomy?
The PM has shown again that he is not on top of matters of state here.
No, the professionals in the AG office, which I do not doubt exists are powerless against the wishes of the UMNOputras Elites.
August 8th, 2008 at 02: 59.23
since it is consensual as they now say, then justice for saifool must equals justice for Anwar.
go on…..charge saifool.
August 8th, 2008 at 04: 45.30
PM: What about Saifool? Ya, what about Saifool? I suppose the rakyat have spoken. Now, just sit back and Watch, Listen, and wait for respond from PM and gang. Have some tissues ready in case you tears up. Not tears of sadness, but just in case you cannot control your amusement, amasement, and laughther.
Every word that Goment and gang utter from here on will be a classic even the like’s of Charlie Chaplin, Robin Williams,Jim Carrey will be burning with envy.
Long live Anwar!!! This entire conspiracy has cost the population more than just Rm, it tarnish the image and IQ’s of Malaysian not just within international level but our very own Mak and Pak Chits. Who requires an army of roadblocks just to tell the world of consensual sex? The rakyat have matured faster than they think. No need for all these roadblocks, we are not animals unlike ‘Umno”. What the Goment hope to potray with this uneccesary decision comes from the very hearts and minds of the wicked.
Yesterday, was another NEW era the rakyat showed to many. Although theres a sense of vindication, there were no unruly behaviour. We are civilised. The Goment are civic-lies!
Now sit back and relax… watch another round of classic display of world class comedians to come.
August 8th, 2008 at 05: 03.05
All Malaysians are so MALU of this fabrication, except the ministers and police. How can these people be on the loose all the time?
August 8th, 2008 at 05: 42.48
Initial allegation of forcible sodomy gave way to synthetic-buggery when they went fishing for some imaginary plas-dick from his bowel. Dr.Osman’s Stat.Dec put to rest further attempts to proceed with those botched fabrications . It looks like consensual salad tossing is the only means to justify a whistle clean orifice.
Five witness will testify to a physical meeting with DSAI at the time of the alleged crime. My imagination would have Saiful claiming that Anwar excused himself during the timeframe to discuss certain matters with him behind closed doors. It would be at this time that ANALyzing took place with both suddenly overwhelmed with the desire to fornicate.
Now, can someone reading law tell me what are the possible scenerio in a courtroom from this point on? Must the prosecution prove that the five witness are lying before they can safely proceed with the case?
August 8th, 2008 at 06: 48.19
If they have change the charge from rape to consensual, then arrest Saiful and charge him too. The Rakyat has wised up alot since TDM’s time. If we can’t charge Saiful in the civil court, then use the Syariah court. Either way, he should be charged for his wrong doing.
August 8th, 2008 at 07: 00.36
2000 years ago, a nubile maiden performed the Dance of the 7 Veils before Herod. His court was turned into a strip tease joint, and she would reveal all of her fortunes. She was specially chosen to dance for Herod. As she began her strip dance, and the first veil taken off, she inspired much much hope and promise the same way it happened here in Malaysia, when King Mahathir Herod stepped out of his premiership. We all said to each other, ‘ this is it! the mother of Cai Dan Can Can Dance.’
When Salome took off her second veil, her bra came off along with the it, not in the choreograph, or rather unskillfully staged. Her two magnificent bumps cover-ups viz her bra fell off, and revealed that her chest was that of a teenager - thirteen years old at that. They were falsies. When Salome began to strip 2,000 years ago, Herod was enthusiastic and gave her all his encouragement, just like we did here. We gave every support to the dancer and she gave it all back like an unwrapped wedding gift. The marriage was unconsummated. How did you like that?
Janet Jackson was famous for her mammary glands and she had the reason to show off a naked breast. So her handler ‘accidentally’ pulled off her bra when he was to pull off just the petticoat. But in the case of Salome, it was really an accident because she knew she was all air and no meat in the cusp. Take a closer look at Janet’s famous nut @ Jubilation T dot cornporn.
We will skip, hop and jump to the second last veil. When it came off, we hoped that the pear shape hips were false too. A skinny praying mantis is better than a pear shaped woman any time. This is our last kopek. Please god let us win the last hand in poker.
But they were real and we were aghast. We were devastated the dancer was little at the top and big at the bottom - a reverse of what it should be. She was not even fit as a cai dan if one is looking out for a mistress. This has to be a nightmare. It cannot be real.
There’s the last veil.
And the last veil is a promise of a new dancer! She said that she did not know, yesterday, but today she knew. She said the same a few times, so we know that the new dancer is a quick learner. We are the slow learners, really.
August 8th, 2008 at 08: 12.10
I am shame become citizen of MALAYSIA under the ruling of our current top leaders especially BODOWI and syed hamid BEBAL. Both have stupidity similarity in answering reporter questions which indirectly telling whole MALAYSIAN that they involved in this conspiracy against DASI.
At 1st DSAI would be charged with sodomy rape under section 377C of the panel code. However at the they change it under section 377B which voluntarily commits carnal intercourse. If both voluntarily why Mohd Saiful Bukhari Azlan not charge as well.
If Mohd Saiful Bukhari Azlan not charge and protected because he is KEY WITNESS it is nothing different from protecting a THEFT who made a police report against another THEFT. Just because the 1st THEFT made police report 1st then he is protected under government law & deserved a protection. Why Mr. SYED HAMID BEBAL BOTAK never learn from a mistake.
The reason they change the charge from 337C to 377B probably because they don’t have DSAI blood to fabricate evidence and time is running out of time. Even if LAW amended it might take times. By the time the LAW approved DSAI already become MP already.
If NAJIS want to tell lie in front of reporters, he should think carefully what he should talk and not to talk. For example at 1st he deny meeting SAIFULL but secome time he admit it and said that CRAP met him to discuss about SCHOLARSHIP. How come a drop out qualify for a SCHOLARSHIP??? Until when DPM get involve in those things??
Don’t u guys can see very clearly that there r lot of discrepancies and contradiction????????
August 8th, 2008 at 08: 28.01
Dear YB Lim
I would make a few additions to my earlier proposal for a “BN University” to increase government efficiency in Malaysia:
1) Set up a School of Business with a Department of Entrepreneurship
(the aim is to train students who are good at creating new,
innovative rent-seeking opportunities at tax-payer expense)
2) Add another department to the business school i.e. Department of
Finance (the aim is to train businesspeople who can carry out
government contracts but at maximum cost so as to ensure
consistent cost over-runs)
3) Add a Department of Statistics to train statisticians who can
create new Consumer Price Indexes (Indices) that show low rates
of inflation in spite of the experience of ordinary Malaysian
consumers to the contrary
4) Add a Department of Politics to offer an advanced diploma in
Machiavellian politics
5) Add a Department of Philosophy
to teach logic (the aim is to train personnel to come up with more and more convoluted arguments to convince the skeptical public about official pronouncements)
This proposed BN University will be unique and I’m sure it will be a centre of excellence!
Phua Kai Lit
August 8th, 2008 at 08: 35.03
They chose 377b because they did not want to have to proof Saiful was forced. Thought they would have it easier that way.
This trial has more stupidity than the THREE STOOGES.
It smells more and more like this is about throwing mud and hopping it would stick simply because the thrower does not have to bother about getting dirty….
August 8th, 2008 at 08: 37.37
Only those uneducated will come out conspiracy full of holes, full of lie, full of funny things that only people from their same group will believe is true. Luckily only a few of them in Malaysia…
August 8th, 2008 at 08: 42.15
Dear YAB LKS
I think the Bar Council would have to step up some presssure here. This all happening like a bad Bollywood or B-grade Hollywood movie gone sour. No need to mention so many issues, the most ridiculous now is the claim that so-do-me consent to it. But so-do-me made police report he was raped.
So, question to YAB SHA & RY, who changed the report? If it was consent, then so-do-me must also be charged. The rakyat is asking why so-do-me is not charged? We demand explanation. Not only in the police report made by so-do-me but also his challenges in the media, blog (even by his so called fiancee), father, lawyer & uncle pet-pet…all seem to be quiet now. Prior to that, everyone cried rape. Now, it’s consent. This is a big joke. Whoever wrote the script was a Bollywood dropout or Hollywood outcast.
But looks like, if it was a whistle blower against BN-UMNO opponents, they get protection to the highest level. But if it was a whistle blower against BN-UMNO, they either disappear, hide or have to run out of country. Is this what Malaysia have become under BN-UMNO-Baru rule for the past 20 years?
This is not about DSAI. It’s about the true rule of law. What’s happening now is BN-UMNO-Baru rule of law, not the Malaysia rule of law.
August 8th, 2008 at 08: 43.51
To argue that under section 377B Saifool was a consensual partner and therefore should be charged is a stupid argument (although I know DSAI also has used it). If the authorities charge Saifool, then what? Does that make us happier? If both are charged and convicted, that will be the end of PR and DSAI. For Saifool, it is ok, there is no beginning and no end for him. Remember he is a dropout. May be this is what the authorities want you fellows to think and argue. They are not as stupid as you fellows think. Please don’t call them brainless and headless because at the end of the day, we may be just staring at ourselves.
Doing is always more difficult than rhetoric. So far they are doing and we are merely engaging in rhetoric. That is why we find them so stupid and we so “smart”.
August 8th, 2008 at 08: 49.12
The present Malaysian government under BN-UMNO-Baru has branded all of us rakyat as good liars. No wonder our economy is sliding each time a lie is being made. Even the FDIs have no confident in the present government, moreso under a …leadership.
I used to think that YAB RY as an intellectual of all sorts. Now, he is no different to the rest of the VIPs - very idiotic politicians - trying to treat us like budak2 kecik. $$$ is indeed powerful. Changes a person inside out.
August 8th, 2008 at 09: 01.20
As I’ve said in before, the consensual sodomy charge has put Saifool in a fix. He has been so publicly vocal about being forcibly sodomized by Anwar and is even willing to swear on the Koran. So how is he going to do a U-turn in court and testify that it was consensual?
If he does agree consent, his credibility with the public is going to take a nosedive. If he doesn’t, the charge against Anwar is defective as the prosecution is not out to prove that force was used. (Only Jeffry Q.C. can go through the implication).
But if he doesn’t play ball, the prosecution can charge him with the same crime on the basis that he is an unwilling witness and hence not entitled to plea bargain.
If he now admits that no sodomy ever occurred, he will be charged for making a false police report and don’t forget Anwar has a defamation suit on him.
So how? Poor chap (not that I pity him). He has been played behind his back (pun intended). This is what you get when you dance with wolves.
August 8th, 2008 at 09: 05.35
Lets assume if both charged. SAIFOOL lose nothing because and the end SAIFOOL will be given new ID, COSMETIC SURGERY, CASH AND BUNGALOW IN MALDIVE. It might cost few million but one small government project cover the whole cost already. Win Win solution.
August 8th, 2008 at 09: 08.59
limkamput, the point here is that gomen gang … AAB, SHA , PDRM’s intention of upholding law is flawed. Nobody is above law. Not even the complainant.
why is he given special ” protection” ? he is just a mole planted by BeEnd. He should be charged as well, then the judge can decide on the degree of punishment base on cooperation.
It is not for executive to decide on judiciary issues. To charge or Not to charge. Independent ??? I think they are still thinking Malayan Union. Not Malaysia !!!
The Bar Council should speak out on this biasness
Augu