Invalid Islamic conversion of Indira’s three children – MCA/Gerakan should stop politics of opportunism/hypocrisy

MCA and Gerakan leaders have not learned the message of the March 8 “political tsunami” last year, when both parties were thrashed in the parliamentary and state general elections.

In the past 11 months, MCA and Gerakan have lost even more public confidence, which was why, according to the Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department, Datuk Seri Nazri Aziz, the Barisan Nasional only secured 11% of the Chinese votes in the recent Bukit Gantang by-election, causing Nazri to remark that Umno must go on its own to regain the support of non-Malay voters and not depend on other Barisan Nasional component parties.

Shared with Gerakan’s by-election efforts and giving MCA the benefit of the doubt as to who wielded greater influence with the Chinese voters in Bukit Gantang, this means that MCA could only influence at most six per cent, and Gerakan five per cent, of the Chinese voters!

Why is this so?

The answer is very simple – the people can see through the continuing hypocrisy and double standards of the MCA and Gerakan leaders.

The latest example of MCA and Gerakan’s continuing unprincipled politics of opportunism and hypocrisy is the recent Cabinet decision on “common religion” for children in controversial unilateral conversion cases – that the civil marriage has to be settled by the civil court and the religion of their children be the common religion at the time their parents were married at civil law.

This Cabinet decision arose from the latest case of controversial unilateral conversion where Ipoh kindergarten teacher Indira Ghandi’s three children Tevi Darsiny 12, Karan Dinish 11 and year-old Prasana Diksa were converted by her husband K. Pathmanathan, now known as Mohd Ridzuan Abdullah, without her consent.

The Cabinet also decided that the year-old baby daughter, Prasana Diksa, forcibly taken away by the father for more than a month although she was still being breastfed by Indira, should be returned to the mother.

This was the decision of the Cabinet, supported by MCA and Cabinet Ministers. However, this decision is not supported by the usurper Perak Barisan Nasional state government, which includes an MCA Exco member and Gerakan appointed adviser who is none other than the Gerakan Deputy Chairman Datuk Chang Ko Yuen.

The refusal of the usurper Perak Barisan Nasional state government, together with the leaders from its component parties of MCA and Gerakan, to give full support to the Cabinet decision is all the more shocking and deplorable as the “forced conversion” of Indira’s three children is clearly unIslamic, invalid and violate Perak’s Administration of the Religion of Islam Enactment 2004.

This has been clearly pointed out by a researcher at the International Institute for Advanced Islamic Studies (IIAIS), Mohamad Hafiz Hassan (Malaysian Insider 24.4.09) who said the current law relating to conversion to Islam in Perak is Section 96 of the enactment.

Mohamad Hafiz states:

“The provisions relating to requirements for conversion to Islam are found in section 96 of the enactment. It states, among others, that for a valid conversion of a person to Islam, the person (a) must utter in reasonably intelligible Arabic the two clauses of affirmation of faith; (2) must be aware that the two clauses mean “I bear witness that there is no god but Allah and I bear witness that the Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. is the Messenger of Allah”; and (3) must utter the two clauses on his or her own free will.

“As soon the person finished uttering the two clauses, he or she becomes a Muslim and shall be referred to as a muallaf (s 97). A muallaf is defined as a person who has just converted to Islam (s 2).

“The muallaf may then apply to the Registrar of Muallaf for registration as a muallaf. If the registrar is satisfied that the requirements of s 96 have been fulfilled, he may register the muallaf’s name and other particulars in the Register of Muallafs.

“In so doing, the registrar has a duty to determine the date of conversion to Islam and enter the date in the register (s 100).

“There is another provision which is of particular importance. It is section 101 which provides that the registrar shall issue a certificate of conversion to every person whose conversion has been registered. It also provides that the certificate of conversion shall be conclusive proof of the facts stated therein.

“There is also section 106 which provides that a person may convert to Islam only if he or she is of sound mind and has attained the age of 18 years. If below that age, he or she must have the consent of the parent or guardian.”

Mohamad Hafiz asked:

“So, how could a child be converted to Islam by the parent? The parent can only consent to the child’s conversion. The child’s conversion to Islam, in any case, is not valid if the child has not uttered the affirmation of faith on his or her own free will.

“A certificate of conversion, if ever issued, will not remedy the non-compliance with requirements of a valid conversion to Islam.”

Are the conversion of Indira’s three children by Pathmanaban/Ridzuan valid?

This is Mohamad Hafiz’ answer.

“Does the conversion to Islam by a parent make his or her children Muslims? The answer lies in section 2 which defines “Muslim” as … (b) a person either or both of whose parents were at the time of the person’s birth, a Muslim; (e) a person who has converted to Islam in accordance with section 96.”

It is clear that Indira’s three children have not been validly converted to Islam as neither one of the two provisions of valid conversion had been complied with.

It is most shocking that the usurper Perak Barisan Nasional state government has refused to give full support to the Cabinet decision, both on the “common religion” decision as well as to take all necessary measures to help Indira get back her baby daughter.

It is doubly shocking that the MCA and Gerakan leaders in Perak are prepared at the Perak state level to be a party to the refusal of the usurper Perak Barisan Nasional government to give full support to the Cabinet decision – playing the double game of MCA and Gerakan support for the Cabinet’s “common religion” position at the national level but not at the state level.

The MCA and Gerakan leaders should stop this unprincipled politics of opportunism and hypocrisy.

The MCA and Gerakan leaders in Perak should not only give full support to the Cabinet decision but ensure that the usurper Perak BN state government make such a clear stand without equivocation, failing which they should withdraw from the usurper Perak BN state government.

Alternatively, the national leadership of MCA and Gerakan should repudiate their respective state leaders in Perak for a most unprincipled and opportunistic stand.

  1. #1 by k1980 on Friday, 1 May 2009 - 2:07 pm

    Wonder what will happen if KTK and/or OTK’s wife converts, together with their children, without KTK and/or OTK’s prior knowledge.

  2. #2 by zak_hammaad on Friday, 1 May 2009 - 3:26 pm

    “political tsunami” ?? When the water from the tsunami recedes, the landscape goes back to normal. What Pakatan need is a cataclysmic earthquake that alters the landscape forever. With a psycho Anwar as their leader and with mediocre progress in the states under their control, Pakatan need to show a lot more than opportunism and internal strife they are currently going through.

    The rakyat is not as stupid to want federal government change just for the sake of change. To replace a renewing and rehabilitating BN with the sinking ship of Pakatan.

  3. #3 by zs1230 on Friday, 1 May 2009 - 3:30 pm

    i still think conversion issues should be discussed and decided by the bar council.

  4. #4 by ALLAN THAM on Friday, 1 May 2009 - 3:39 pm

    All the answer was with the comment by Utaz of former mufti of Perlis, Mohamad Asri Zainul Abidin.Pls read this article at Malaysia Insiders.

    He is the true Muslim and his explanation is simply logical and easily understood by all human being.

  5. #5 by ALLAN THAM on Friday, 1 May 2009 - 3:43 pm

    Referring to the landmark case of Lina Joy, who attempted to change her religious status on her identity card from Islam to Christian, Asri said that there was no point in retaining her status as a Muslim.

    “What is the benefit? Do we want people who do not believe in Islam with ICs that say they are Muslim? If they get married to Muslims, then there will be problems. What if their spouses become committee members of mosques, for example. Won’t this create confusion?”

    The above was extract by article from the Malaysia Insider. don’t any one think what Utaz Asri say is true and logical??

  6. #6 by DAP man on Friday, 1 May 2009 - 4:03 pm

    This is a form of ‘escapism’ for estranged couples. By converting himself and his children the husband’s only purpose is to totally cut off the wife from access to the kids. He is doing this to spite her, not love for religion.
    Should religion$ permit breaking up of families?
    If this is not abuse of religion than what is?

  7. #7 by yhsiew on Friday, 1 May 2009 - 4:10 pm

    Give no room for opportunist and hypocritical political parties in this country.

  8. #8 by Onlooker Politics on Friday, 1 May 2009 - 4:32 pm

    Any true believer of a religion will faithfully and easily tell that the heart of a newly convert is much more important than anything else. A newly convert must first prove that he/she has the true love towards his/her new religion which he/she is going to adopt as his/her everyday practice for the rest of his/her life.

    There is no point forcing someone to believe and practise the religion of our choice if the person whom we try to convert simply is not ready to accept our religion with his/her whole heart, with his/her whole soul, with his/her whole mind, and with his/her whole strength. The force action itself may be a sinful act which will create much more bad than good for we ourselves!

  9. #9 by good coolie on Friday, 1 May 2009 - 5:15 pm

    Yang Berhormat Lim,
    The Cabinet directive on forced conversion is based on a sound sense of justice.
    The sticky question is this: why was not the same sense of justice obvious before the political tsunami? Why could not the Cabinet/Courts see the light of day then?
    If the Cabinet/Courts had asked the opinion of the roti-chanai seller then, the correct decision could have been reached much earlier.

  10. #10 by sheriff singh on Friday, 1 May 2009 - 6:30 pm

    I believe there are similar enactments in other states? This (these) enactment(s) might solve alot of conversions of minors by one of their parents?

    Operative words – “attained 18 years, free will, must be aware that the two clauses mean… ” .

    But then there will be those who will solely rely on Syariah laws and not some man made civil enactments.

  11. #11 by mauriyaII on Friday, 1 May 2009 - 7:43 pm

    Wonder what will happen if KTK and/or OTK’s wife converts, together with their children, without KTK and/or OTK’s prior knowledge.
    If the above should take place, rest assured those two towkays would not hesitate to embrace Islam on the sly with the blessings of Najis/UMNO/BN and put on a great show to their idiotic followers that such a news was rumours spawned by the Opposition and the alternate media.

    The MCA and the GERAKAN shameless towkays have for the past 50 years hood-winked ordinary members into believing they are fighting for their rights as citizens of this country. It is a fact they have connived with UMNO into depriving their communities what is rightfully theirs.

    Have they really fought to get rid of the ISA? Have they openly questioned UMNO about forced body snatching and the conversion of minors by a parent who had converted for his self interest without the consent of his spouse?

    In fact they have supported UMNO blindly so as to enrich themselves, their cronies and families at the expense of the ordinary members. These so-called leaders have only eyes for politically motivated awards such as Datuk, Tan Sri, etc.

    Which coalition leader in the BN is not a Datuk, Tan Sri or Tun? Do they really deserve such awards? What have they done or contributed to the welfare of their communities? Aren’t each and everyone of these leaches multi-millionaires?

  12. #12 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 May 2009 - 6:54 am

    YB should be slow & hesitant to accuse MCA and Gerakan of double game/hypocrisy in giving full support to the Cabinet decision to resolve predicatment of Indira Ghandi and forced conversion of her children and yet at Perak state level for MCA Exco member and Gerakan appointed adviser to be a party to “the usurper Perak Barisan Nasional state government” refusal to support such “common religion” position.

    For those accused can turn around and accuse YB and DAP for supporting the “common religion” position of the Cabinet and yet be party to a Pakatan Rakyat Coalition in which the other two component parties (PKR and PAS) are not supporting it either – in fact PAS slammed the cabinet’s recent decision for betraying Islam. Speaking to The Malaysian Insider, Mahfuz Omar, a PAS parliamentarian, said the government in making appeared to have bypassed and disrespected the country’s rulers and Islam in general.

    It will be asked why you are not slamming PAS whose appointee Datuk Seri Mohammad Nizar Jamaluddin you & DAP support as MB for Perak over Datuk Dr Zambry ?

    They will ask what is position of Perak Pakatan Rakyat state government led by MB Mohammad Nizar then? Does it support the Cabinet decision on “common religion” for children as what you/DAP do? If so will this be also a case of Mohammad Nizar not towing his party PAS’s line or (even Anwar’s PKR) and therefore a stooge for DAP (as your detractors lable)?

    Or will Perak Pakatan Rakyat state government led by MB Mohammad Nizar heed PAS & PKR’s reservations on Cabinet’s decision and therefore also NOT give full support to it – just exacly like Zambry’s usurper Perak Barisan Nasional state government’s position?

    In such a case would it not be hypocritical for the DAP to attack MCA Exco member and Gerakan appointed adviser for being part of Zambry’s usurper Perak Barisan Nasional state government’s position/serservations that the Perak Pakatan Rakyat state government led by MB Mohammad Nizar, supported by you/DAP, also share?? :)

  13. #13 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 May 2009 - 6:57 am

    …”reservations” in last para

  14. #14 by chengho on Saturday, 2 May 2009 - 7:52 am

    Uncle Kit , ur comment on Mahfuz remarks??

  15. #15 by Bigjoe on Saturday, 2 May 2009 - 8:52 am

    I’ll say it again. For all the good religion does, it still get crazy at some point – that is the fundamental superiority of secularity…

  16. #16 by negarawan on Saturday, 2 May 2009 - 8:58 am

    Do DAP, PAS and PKR have a common stand on conversion issues? It seems like there is also politics of opportunism and hypocrisy within “Pakatan” Rakyat itself. Please work out your own differences before pointing fingers at others. Many supporters of PR are getting frustated at the infighting and internal conflicts. At its best, PR is still a loose coalition.

  17. #17 by kerishamuddinitis on Saturday, 2 May 2009 - 9:55 am

    MCA will never do what is right now because Only Talk Kok is at the helm of the party. He is even more two-faced and double-speaking than Peletup Mongolia. So, MCA members continue to lie to themselves that the party continues to be relevant to Malaysian Chinese. That’s why they could only command 11% support from the Chinese. The rest of the 89% went to Pakatan Rakyat made up of an Islamic party (omigosh-hudud!), a multiracial party with a Malay at the helm and a multiracial party with a Chinese at the helm.

    I dare say Gerakan got 0% support from the Chinese. Either that or the Chinese who supported them must have been stupider than the MCA members. Crowd-surfing a DEAD BODY is not the best way of burying a bitter fiasco of being wiped out from Malaysian politics. GERAKAN is dead and just a short way a way from putrefying. BURY IT AND GET OUT NOW!

    And actually, the whole sorry issue of the 3 Hindu kids converted to Islam by their dad should have been picked up by Semi Value and his totally-irrelevant party. Hmmm, maybe that’s why Semi Value kept talking about himself and they didn’t do anything…he is now officially a self-serving geriatric, decaying loudmouth leading the Malodorous Irrelevant Congress.

  18. #18 by taiking on Saturday, 2 May 2009 - 11:21 am

    In generally this is a difficult problem with divorce cases especially the acrimonious type. H & W are bound to fight and argue and make things impossible for each other. And children will be used as pawns in their great match sometimes by one party and often by both parties. Children in such environment mature rather quickly, mentally. But unfortunately they are likely to be emotionally less balance and could be problematic. Some never quite overcome their difficult childhood and carry them for the rest of their lives. Secret conversion is not an abnormal game plan for those who are caught in an acrimonious divorce proceeding. Religion ought not to be used for such purpose or in such situation. That is not the objective of any religion. And it must not be encouraged. Besides, conversion to islam is governed by islamic principles and for indera’s case, those principles had not been complied with. These are strong reasons for MCA Gerakan etc etc to make a clear stand.

    BTW, I often see marbles rolling about in the vicinity of MCA and Gerakan HQs. Some of them were crushed to bits by passing vehicles. Others got kicked about by unknowing passer-bys. It isnt a nice sight at all. Really, those fellas ought to clean up the mess.

  19. #19 by james111 on Saturday, 2 May 2009 - 1:03 pm

    gerakan leaders are just pure hypocrites. they will just play along with UMNO. Their stupid leaders like Koh Tsu Koon & Teng Chang Yeow who abandon Penang, Chang Ko youn who is as useless as pointed out by LKS, Tan Keng Liang (who pakat with Mukhriz and Nazri) who is just lacked of “grey matters” as pointed by LKS, Tan Lian Hoe who called Melayu as pendatang asing but chicken out after being scolded by UMNO.

    MCA with Ong Tee Keat will be dead ship soon. Chua soi lek already said considering going to Pakatan soon. Team A and team B issue coming out again!!! Wee ka siong is just kow tow to UMNO everyday. Liow Tiong Lai got to change swine flu (or pig flu) to dunno what stupid name just because pressure from UMNO.

  20. #20 by sotong on Saturday, 2 May 2009 - 1:58 pm

    Our country do not need ‘ politicians” fighting for the rights of different races or religious groups.

    All it need is good leadership and fair and good management of the country…..for far too long the ordinary people had been divided and exploited to create jobs and wealth for the ” politicians ” at the great expense of our country.

  21. #21 by frankyapp on Saturday, 2 May 2009 - 4:46 pm

    Religion is a choice,it’s an international norm,all persons under 18th years old should not be converted to a religion either by the father or the mother,or any guardian. When justice is perverted in count or in any other places,everyone should applied the international rule to correct it..Hence I totally agree that Indira’s three young children islamic conversion should be invalid.Politicians and religious leaders are educated and consider well verse in their in respective trade or both should have used their common sense in the first place to prevent this kind of sensitive religious problem,knowing pretty well we are a multi racial and multi religious nation.It’s very unfortunate that our top leaders {political and religious} have been over come by political opportunism and hypocrisy.

  22. #22 by lopez on Saturday, 2 May 2009 - 8:13 pm

    Why are you people preventing creation and propagation of mamaks

    Why are the people interferring the affairs of one of the many families of bolihland

    Family virtues start at the home, father is the head he takes lead, if family goes holland the rest must follow.

    So for fathers and fathers to be please lead your family to your chosen values…and learn from the mistakes of others

    then we have nation of good values teh tarik values…

    kurang manis jom

  23. #23 by imranj78 on Saturday, 2 May 2009 - 9:29 pm

    YB LKS, it is not appropriate for you to fire salvos at Gerakan and MCA. PR and DAP are hypocritical yourselves. What are your views on Mahfuz’s statement? What is PR’s common stand on the conversion? PR is trying to come up with a `safe’ common stand which at the end of the day equates to NOTHING significant! If you want to fire salvos at Gerakan and MCA, PR should first come up with a common stand on the conversion issue directly. Or else the whole nation will just see you as being hypocritical!

  24. #24 by lopez on Monday, 4 May 2009 - 12:10 am

    swine is a swine….it is international name….why not try change liow names like runaround wow wow.

  25. #25 by arah on Monday, 4 May 2009 - 4:00 pm

    All babies are born fitrah (muslim). Only the Christian believe that all babies are born sinners

    In US 1.5 Million convert to Islam and they are not fighting over dead bobies and children like in Msia

    In UK more people convert to Islam including the Priests and Judges.

    Malaysian including their leaders should learn about Islam and also the teaching of their neighbour religion ie Christian, Hindu and Buddha

  26. #26 by arah on Monday, 4 May 2009 - 4:05 pm

    Let learn what is fitrah

    Prove by CNN that 1.5 Million people in US convert to Islam


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