Shame on you, Star


Star, on page N6, gave half a page to the statement by MCA President, Datuk Seri Ong Tee Kiat with the headline: “DAP advised to boycott polls – Ong tells party to prove it opposes hudud”.

But it blacked out my reply to Ong. Not a word at all.

Shame on you Star, which claims to be “The people’s paper”!

What are you afraid of?

Is this your “new journalism”?

  1. #1 by AhPek on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 11:51 am

    Aya,YB why you so naive one.You expect them to let you use their propaganda machine to run down their big boss,meh! Where can one?

  2. #2 by c730427 on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 1:06 pm

    I had stopped buying Star for 2 years. This is one way I boycott their ethics.

  3. #3 by Godfather on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 1:15 pm

    This is political reality. Those who believe in what the Star spews forth cannot be relied upon for the cause of change.

    Write to Wong Chun Wai and ask the sycophant what he intends to do when the MCA is wiped out.

  4. #4 by Godfather on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 1:16 pm

    By the way, Kit, how much will it cost to reprint your reply and distribute it to the 10 pct of the KT voters who read the Star ?

  5. #5 by k1980 on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 1:33 pm

    Write to Wong Chun Wai and ask the sycophant what he intends to do when the MCA is wiped out.

    Errr, he will convert to Hinduism and join MIC?

  6. #6 by zak_hammaad on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 1:39 pm

    “According to Manikavasagam, PKR leaders in Selangor are not united and cold towards each other whereas a few others were arrogant and unwilling to come together to resolve issues.”

    I said it before and I will say it again… Its time for Pakatan to let go of Anwar who has become a liability! With it coalition of convenience slowly unravelling at the seams, BN will take full advantage of this to promote a viable alternative.

  7. #7 by tohca1 on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 1:44 pm

    k1980, hey that’s a good one. hehehe

    Can’t wait till the day it happens. Just wishing and a hoping. After all it’s Christmas time still.

    Cheers guys and wish you all Merry Christmas. Time to chill out.

    The Malaysian Explorer

  8. #8 by bclee on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 1:46 pm

    YB, i no been reading news paper for i think the pass 6 months.
    the Malaysia news paper only cover one side of fact and never be fair so far.
    so forget about it YB.
    as a currency trader i am more concent about the current economy in Malaysia. crude oil palm oil and rubber will be prices down as world recession dipping further.
    study of elliot waves chart confirmed that usd will be stronger till atleast 2 quater of 2009.when usd strengthening all commodities prices will drop down further,do our gorvernment do anything to help the kampung focks aspecially rubber tappers and palm oil industries to overcome this time of big wave?
    i still remember if i am no mistaken when palm oil at all time high our goverment do tax extra on all profit make on palm oil industries i think it only fair the government should pay back now to help them.

  9. #9 by Saint on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 2:32 pm

    What’s wrong with you Saudara Kit?
    From when did Malaysian news papers had any professional journalism.

  10. #10 by voice on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 2:36 pm

    Don’t worry, the rakyat is not stupid anymore, even if I didnt read this blog nor read any “alternative media”, I’m aware of their tactics, they simply cant afford to be in politic

  11. #11 by monsterball on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 2:55 pm

    That’s what UMNO call it…guided democracy..guiding all Malaysians to tong sampah.
    Yes…..Internet readers will spread the truth to others.
    I just spent 2 hours talking to few UMNO members and all are so fed up…with UMNO controlling…what is suppose to be free hands to those CEOs.
    Terengganu by-election…all say….PAS will win.
    Dead guy of UMNO won by a mere 600+ votes and he was a popular school teacher.
    New guy…nobody.
    Win or loose…it’s nice to chat with UMNO old guys..all old members…all fed up with UMNO.
    They are also fed up with their crazy.lazy workers…want to chat chat and chat….this meeting..that meeting….no results..no work done at all.
    So these managers.go to office two hours earlier to do work peacefully….to prepare themselves..to talk nonsense…no work..start working hours.

  12. #12 by wanderer on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 3:54 pm

    MCA means nothing to the Chinese community. No matter, how they use their propaganda machine ‘The Star’, it makes very little difference. To the public, MCA is a political beggar party and is irrelevant in the Malaysian political arena. If they have any principle, they won’t be shouldering the b*lls of UMNO.

  13. #13 by jedyoong on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 3:59 pm

    YB, what did you say?

  14. #14 by OrangRojak on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 4:04 pm

    I guess that means you don’t have a license to sell The Rocket (is that what it’s called?) to the general public.

    Why don’t you start a paper of your own? I’d say you must be just about the best political commentator in Malaysia, even if you only do that because you’re prevented from doing proper politics.

    Is it so hard to start a newspaper in Malaysia? I’m aware it’s not plain sailing once you’ve got one going. It might be handy to have an organ of alternative propaganda that doesn’t have a RM3000 down payment (PC and accessories) + RM100 per month (Internet) recurring payments before Malaysians can read your opinion.

    I know! You could call it something half way between ‘Rocket’ and ‘Rakyat’ – how about ‘The Racket’? That ought to appeal to ex-Star readers.

  15. #15 by chengho on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 4:07 pm

    The Star motivation is business not opinion by u kit look at the thick pages for advertisers they still make ton of money eventhough the whole members of DAP do not read the Star.

  16. #16 by Godfather on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 4:31 pm

    Zak Hammaad the foreigner:

    You want us to ditch Anwar and bring back your hero Mamakthir ?

  17. #17 by Godfather on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 4:44 pm

    The father of modern corruption is still spewing hatred through his blog. The corruption that he wrought on the mainstream media – the topic of this thread – is clear for all to see.

    Hail to Mamakthir ! May God give him a long life to witness the calamities the Mamakthir has wrought on Bolehland.

  18. #18 by Yee Siew Wah on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 5:41 pm

    If i have any alternatives I would dump the STAR straight away into the garbage truck long time ago.
    However, I am selective in my reading. I will skip those write-up on any BN component parties especially MCA and UMNO. I know they are garbage materials.
    Hope that PKR can win over the government and throw all those running dog reporters in STAR.

  19. #19 by ENDANGERED HORNBILL on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 6:44 pm

    Well….STAR is as good as an MCA propaganda machine. So, not printing YB’s reply is ‘legitimate’, though not truthful, censorship. Hey, it’s MCA’s house and they will call all the shots….and they will continue to hoodwink the Chinese in Malaysia with all kinds of perverted logic and twisted reasoning.

    YB and DAP, together with PR coalition, have to look at all possible creative ways to get PR’s meessages across to the less-informed masses. The focus now must be on KT and the primarily Malay audience and Chinese fence-sitters. Then, move on and the waves from the last tsunami must not be allowed to fizzle out so soon! The next GE must see a bigger tsunami.

  20. #20 by AhPek on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 7:52 pm

    The population of Kuala Trengganu is 295,000 with 11.6% being from the Chinese community(ie 34,220).Like what Godfather says you can easily print out
    35,000 copies of your reply to OTK to be disseminated to every Chinese in KT.
    The Chinese in KT is crucial to the results in the forthcoming by-election in KT.They certainly is the kingmaker there.

  21. #21 by Kongseemik on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 7:53 pm

    No problem lah, YB Lim. Wait for the demise of MCA and Wong Chun Wai will definitely front-page your reply! You don’t have to wait for too long. The people will decide for the People’s Paper!!

  22. #22 by bentoh on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 8:06 pm

    The Star is MCA’s party organ… what do you expect? ;)

  23. #23 by monsterball on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 8:23 pm

    MCA…you say?
    Just look at Or Kui Tow and Or Ta Kut personalities?
    Then look at sex man.
    Now compare to Lim Ah Lek and Chua Ju Ming.
    You see….idiots are idiot..smart are smart….sincere or cunning…all from the face.
    Star paper you say…just don’t read those politics. Buy for sports pages…4 ekor results.. shares…who is dead…and horse racing table.
    That’s why businessman like me…still buy Star.

  24. #24 by son of perpaduan on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 8:46 pm

    YB,
    Make sure you send him ( wong chun wai ) to hell if PR in power.

  25. #25 by Peacefully on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 9:56 pm

    The very low class paper will not report the true to people.
    They still thought the reader is stupid. In fact, it’s only bring reader to unclear space=> full of rubbish.

  26. #26 by yhsiew on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 10:19 pm

    I have stopped reading Star and NST for nearly a year although I still read The Sun.

    I think Chinese newspapers, such as China Press, give fairer reporting on political matters.

  27. #27 by de_Enigma on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 10:58 pm

    The only section that still worth reading in Star is the biz section. Its been long time they served bull sh*t instead what we need most – unbiased truth.

  28. #28 by chris chong on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 11:24 pm

    i read it only for the entertainment, sport, and leisure section.

    keep up the good works, PR!!!

    and send the altantuya murderer to hell!!! before he reach the top!!!

  29. #29 by chris chong on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 11:32 pm

    and assault the Binatang Negara with the petrol price topic that the rakyat are subsiding the government >30% of the petrol price!!!.

    it’s the people hard earned pocket money. all malaysians will pay attention and wanna kick thme out of the government office.

  30. #30 by tok iskandar on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 11:38 pm

    MCA is UMNO bodyguard.Actually their state representative support hudud bill.

    UMNO kian terdesak untuk menang.Isu Hudud yang dimainkan media totok UMNO dengan suntikan tambahan daripada akhbar the star telah menjadi senjata makan tuan.
    Enakmen Kesalahan Jenayah Hudud dan Qisas Terengganu 2002 telah diluluskan sebulat suara oleh anggota Dewan Undangan Negeri Terengganu termasuklah adun MCA sendiri.
    Enakmen tersebut juga telah mendapat perkenan Sultan Terengganu, Tuanku Sultan Mizan Zainal Abidin pada 2 September 2002 dan kemudiannya diwartakan pada 25 September 2002.

    Habis isu hudud yang sengaja dijolok MCA untuk memerangkap DAP agar tidak menyokong PAS dalam PRK Kuaa Terengganu.MCA serba tak kena kerana telah menyuruh DAP boikot PRK KT untuk buktikan tak sokong hudud sedangkan ADUN MCA sendiri sokong hudud.

    Kaum Cina semakin meragui MCA yang lebih dilihat bodyguard kepada UMNO kerana sebelum ini kaum cina dicerca dan dihina oleh pemimpin UMNO sebagai kaum pendatang.luka itu ditambah dengan kenyataan mukhriz agar sek cina dihapuskan.

    Kaum Cina sudah jelas dengan peranan yang dimainkan MCA ketika ini yang lemah dan gagal memperjuangkan nasib kaum cina

  31. #31 by luking on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 1:02 am

    That kangkong can say anything but still is a lier.As long as mca is in,they are getting no votes from us.and dissapear in the next ge.

  32. #32 by Kathy on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 7:47 am

    Don’t need to get so upset over the non-posting of YB’s reply in the Star – the people already know that whatever STAR newspaper writes may not necessarily be correct in their reporting. It is at times fun to see how terrible reporters they are – no ethical values at all. Well, what to expect from an organization that is being run by politicians.

  33. #33 by Bigjoe on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 8:23 am

    Could Sdr. Lim’s complain here an indication that DAP is worried about how things are going at wrong time? The value of a PR win in KT is very high. A lost just adds more, maybe a lot more on what is already a heavy plate for PR. This fundamental fact means that Sdr. Lim should and have to dot/cross all i’s and t’s. At this time NOTHING can/should be taken for granted.

    The new MB of Terengganu seems prepared to deploy newly obtained resources from the Federal govt to gain KT. The promises being made to Terengganu Chinese is actually unprecendented. All my years visiting there, I have never heard of such largesse dished out. The thing about the Chinese votes in Terengganu for UMNO is that if they get the votes, then UMNO does not have to deal with the factionalism in Terengganu.

    For DAP and PR, taking away the Chinese votes is key to exposing the factionalism in Terengganu. If its clear the Chinese votes won’t go their way weeks before the election, then the factionalism will break out in the open. Otherwise, UMNO have a good chance…

  34. #34 by Jimm on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 8:54 am

    all our national massmedia have sold their souls to umno and that’s their choice to survive as their weaknesses can be covered under umno.
    look at out electronic massmedia especially those newscasters , they have completely sold their human rights in reading ‘false’ nrews to the public , that’s a great sin to God.
    to them , it’s a job that pays them well and who cares about whether what was to be read does commit sins as it’s their livinghood that matters most here.
    so , greed of a human and the way they choosen to overcome their shortfalls and weaknesses is to pick on a escapeway whch easier to obtained right in front of their eyes.
    parents that send your children to study for massmedia communications , don’t laugh at this as your children future may depends on umno and your children will be sitting on WCW’s chair one day and solh their soul away to survive.
    those that sold their souls away for something lesser in life are great sinners to God as they chosen to sway to evil’s pressure.
    all man are made equal from day one ….
    it’s their own evil choices that separated them from God.
    at the end of their journey , most of them will spend time seeking for repent and forgiveness from God.

  35. #35 by Damocles on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 9:24 am

    Never voted for the BN.
    Never will!

  36. #36 by A true Malaysian on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 9:58 am

    People’s eyes are clear, people’s ears are sharp.

    WCW, just don’t know how you face your wife, children and friends.

  37. #37 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 12:04 pm

    I cannot understand PAS leaders and their need for an ideological approach to issues.

    Nobody believes PAS is going to implement hudud laws including PAS leaders themselves. On the other hand, we have DAP MPs afraid that they may lose support, felt committed to speak their minds on the issue believing that if they don’t then their supporters would think they are a sell-out. This time it is on the issue of hudud law. The next time they could be selling away their grandmothers!

  38. #38 by A true Malaysian on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 12:43 pm

    undergrad2,

    For Hudud issues, it is sensible to read RPK’s articles,

    http://mt.m2day.org/2008/content/view/16320/84/

    http://mt.m2day.org/2008/content/view/16250/84/

    Just focus on bigger issue of impending tsunami that will bring us better Malaysia. Hudud is just a gimmick to me.

  39. #39 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 1:07 pm

    “I cannot understand PAS leaders and their need for an ideological approach to issues” – Undergrad2

    Terengganu State Government (when it was under PAS) already passed the Syariah Criminal Offences (Hudud and Qisas) Terengganu Bill in 2002 over the heads of protest from other Opposition parties, NGOs and civil society. Even the BN Federal governnment refused to enforce it.

    So PAS (through Husam) now thinks that this Kuala Terengganu parliamentary by-election is opportune time to revive this issue.

    It is really in bad taste. Not just because it enables OKT/MCA & MSM/The Star to play up the Islamic state issue against PR.

    It is because this Kuala Terengganu parliamentary by-election is important to signal the mood/momentum of where the rakyat are turning. PAS should concentrate on issues of governance whether they be Monsoon Cup or Oil Royalties. However it does not. It rather campaigns on a divisive issue about which none of the PR members including PAS have signed and endorsed when they agreed to collaborate under Pakatan Rakyat.

    PAS’s approach has then sent out three unacceptable signals:-

    The first is : it places its coalition partners esp DAP in a quandary. It is sending a message that DAP’s support of PAS candidate to ensure Kuala Terengannu’s victory will lead to, whether DAP likes it or not, a victory, albeit by marginal advance, of its Islamic theocratic state agenda that D AP has all along opposed.

    Yes Kit could clarify but MSM/the Star is not reporting it but more important is the thrust of OKT’s frontal attack – what is the point of words if unmatched with deeds doing the opposite?

    The second signal is that the sentiments of none Malays/Muslims voters on Hudud are of no pivotal concern or part to play in Kuala Terengannu’s by election. It is a battle defined by only PAS & UMNO on a competition based on race and religion and who is the better champion, a line that Pakatan Rakyat as a whole has been trying a steer away.

    And the third signal – is that PAS could say what it wants with impunity – never mind it constitutes a flagrant breach of or deviation from the understanding amongst all PR coalition partners in their founding electoral pact – which subtly implies it is the dominant player that the rest have to put up with, whether they like it or not, if they want a whiff of a chance at power by defeating BN in the longer run.

    It is not MCA/OKT that have tarnished DAP’s stand as a principled party. They merely exploited the situtation.

    It is PAS that has put the DAP in a dilemma by this unnecessary and unproductive late hour statement from Husam. (Subsequent qualifications that it cannot be done without the 2 approval cannot so easily repair the damage as the ultimate intent of the thocratic agenda is reaffirmed). Such statement is not the first nor will it be the last.
    “I cannot understand PAS leaders and their need for an ideological approach to issues” – Undergrad2
    Terengganu State Government (when it was under PAS) passed the Syariah Criminal Offences (Hudud and Qisas) Terengganu Bill in 2002. Federal governnment refused to enforce it. So PAS (through Husam) thinks that this Kuala Terengganu parliamentary by-election is opportune time to revive this issue. It is really in bad taste. Not just because it enables OKT/MCA & MSM/The Star to play up the Islamic state issue against PR. It is because this Kuala Terengganu parliamentary by-election is important to signal the mood/momentum of where the rakyat are turning. PAS should concentrate on issues of governance whether they be Monsoon Cup or Oil Royalties. However it does not. It campaigns on a divisive issue about which none of the PR members including PAS have signed and agreed when they agreed to collaborate under Pakatan Rakyat. PAS’s approach has sent out three unacceptable signals.

    The first is : it places its coalition partners esp DAP in a quandary. It is sending a message that DAP’s support of PAS candidate to ensure Kuala Terengannu’s victory will lead to, whether DAP likes it or not, a victory, albeit by marginal advance, of its Islamic theocratic state agenda that D AP has all along opposed. Yes Kit could clarify but MSM/the Star is not reporting it but more important is the thrust of OKT’s attack – what is the point of words if unmatched with deeds doing the opposite?

    The second signal is that the sentiments of none Malays/Muslims voters on Hudud are of no pivotal concern or part to play in Kuala Terengannu’s by election.

    And the third signal – is that PAS could say what it wants with impunity, never mind it constitutes a flagrant breach of or deviation from the understanding amongst all PR coalition partners in their founding electoral pact – which subtly implies it is the dominant player that the r est h ave to put up, whether they like it or not, if they want a chance at the whiff of power defeating BN in the longer run brings.

    It is not MCA/OKT that have tarnished DAP’s stand as a principled party. They merely exploited the situtation. It is PAS that has put the DAP in a dilemma by this unnecsary and unproductive late hour statement from Husam. (Subsequent qalifications that it cannot be done without the 2 approval cannot so easily repair the damage as the ultimate intent of the thocratic agenda is reaffirmed).

    If they miscalculate on non-Malays/Muslims or even some other Malay/Muslim voters sentiments on Hudud issue, it would send Kuala Terengannu’s parliamentary seat right back to BN for which PAS is wholly responsible for this debacle.

    In Selangor PAS is lobbying that beers be not served in football matches. They are very clever at these challenges, they will say beer will cause rowdiness and fights whereas it is doubled edged to further its agenda incrementally where ever possible.

    Feuds within PR are not instigated by BN that only exploits the feuds.

    They are instigated by PAS itself and the question DAP/PKR have to address is how long this acquiescence of PAS advancement of its agenda by incremental/marginal steps should be tolerated and when and where to draw the line and take action.

  40. #40 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 1:10 pm

    There is something wrong about the submission process that has created multiple submissions. Sorry about that.

  41. #41 by kerishamuddinitis on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 1:35 pm

    Many people have stopped buying the STAR…and the NST. They blackout news, twist the truth, mis-represent situations, play up issues to the detriment of ‘the opposition,’ completely ignore the voice of the people and function as complete lapdogs to the ruling party. I stopped the day the STAR reported 4000 marchers at the Bersih march. I was there, so when I read 4000, I was so utterly disgusted with this blatant lie that I stopped buying mainstream newspapers. The STAR reporters must have been blind, deaf and dumb OR they must have been total imbeciles! So much for datuk wong…his words count for nought, his views are not worth the paper it is written on and his datukship is well-earned for being a well-trained lapdog. Worthless piece of shit!

  42. #42 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 1:42 pm

    Thanks, Jeffrey, for your sharp observation! Yes, PAS was responsible for causing the rift, which was then exploited by BN.

  43. #43 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 3:59 pm

    The lapdog speaks here, too !

  44. #44 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 4:09 pm

    Why don’t you guys just regurgitate what was written ad nauseum in the next thread. Yes, Ong Tak Kut was right. Yes, the STAR was right. PAS is at fault. DAP should just boycott the KT by-election.

    Show the true colours and hidden agenda of the DAP right wing for all to see.

  45. #45 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 4:21 pm

    The fact that the Star has not been fair in its coverage and that MCA may have some hidden agenda in exploiting this issue should not provide an excuse for PR to blame everyone but themselves. The fundamental ideological clash between DAP and PAS is a problem it must face up to honestly and courageously.

  46. #46 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 4:25 pm

    Hey kid, I still haven’t seen your call for DAP to boycott the by-election.

  47. #47 by shortie kiasu on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 4:28 pm

    We never buy Star paper anyway because we know are the ‘tauke’ behind the paper. It can never be neutral in their reporting and opinion.

    The people are able to judge and analyse whatever information presented to them nowadays because there multiple sources of information available.

    Whatever the Star says may not be able to sway the public opinion any more compared to those old days when people are being pulled by their nose. Then, there were not many sources of information available to the public.

  48. #48 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 4:31 pm

    DAP should not dwell on the issue of whether they should boycott the KT by-election. DAP should just pull out of PR and try to form a third coalition with parties that are against both UMNO and PAS. In that case, the issue of whether to boycott the by-election does not arise.

    Those who label the proponents of this view as the DAP right wingers have to decide whether they take them to be DAP right wingers or DAP’s enemies (who are perhaps a UMNO’s and MCA’s spies), for these two contradictory accusations have been levelled at the proponents of this view.

  49. #49 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 4:33 pm

    oops… ‘…who are perhaps [strike out ‘a’] UMNO’s and MCA’s…’

    Sorry for the oversight!

  50. #50 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 4:36 pm

    Kid, who might DAP team up with ? PPP ? SAPP ? Do you even know what you are saying ?

  51. #51 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 4:54 pm

    There is an excellent editorial on the Chinese version of Malaysiakini:
    http://www.malaysiakini.com/columns/95498

    The title is a pun on two homophonic Chinese phrases ‘liang xianzhi’ (i.e. ‘two-party system’ and ‘two constraints’) and literally means ‘An Alternative Two-Party System’ (Two Constraints).

    The editorial sums up the frustrations of some voters with both BN and PR: voters hoped for a workable two-party system, but what they got instead were two constraints, that is, the choice between the two evils of Malay supremacy (ketuanan Melayu) and Islamic State.

    DAP leaders will do well to take heed of this sentiment among some voters. The best thing to do is to quit PR and form a third coalition without UMNO and PAS.

  52. #52 by dapsupporter8888 on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 4:58 pm

    What do you expect? Star is being controlled by the BN goons.

    These UMNO & BN goons are definitely insulting our intelligence. They think we are still living in the past and are stupid. Unfortunately, we are not.

    Don’t worry, Uncle Lim. We know that these goons are just playing up issues in the run up to the KT by-elections.

    I hope the chinese community in KT are wise enough and will not buy up these issues created by UMNO. We must ensure a victory for PAS.

    I will never vote for BN. Never and not in this lifetime. Maybe even not in my next life!

  53. #53 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 5:03 pm

    The minute DAP quits PR, DAP is finished. All the moderate DAP supporters will simply join PKR, and all that DAP is left with are the extremists. It will simply become a chauvinistic Chinese party and will eventually have to fold like the Workers Party.

    Kit knows it. Instead of pestering Kit to quit PR, why don’t you guys quit the party and form your own anti-Islamic party ? Then you can rally others to your cause. Then you can test the possibilities of having other similarly-minded parties join your new party.

  54. #54 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 5:06 pm

    Kid, you have your chance at creating a third force. Don’t drop the ball.

  55. #55 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 5:12 pm

    While there is a possibility that some will quit DAP when DAP quits PR, there is also a possibility that some will join DAP and that some parties will join DAP’s new coalition. We’re all dealing with possibilities and there is no reason to think that the former is more probable than the latter.

    Remember that many moderate Muslims do not support PAS’ agenda of Islamic state.

  56. #56 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 5:13 pm

    Just imagine, kid, that you could be head of the third force. You could put yourself on the same pedestal as Lee Kuan Yew in 20 years’ time. Both of you have the same alma mater.

    Make sure you have Jeffrey as the legal counsel for the third force.

  57. #57 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 5:21 pm

    There you go, kid. You sound confident of the fact that many anti-Pas people would join your coalition. Stop harping on DAP having to do the dirty work. Kit and others know which side their bread is buttered. You should have enough support to create the third force by yourselves. He who hesitates is lost. Hurry.

  58. #58 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 5:22 pm

    the same surname as well

  59. #59 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 5:31 pm

    Tomorrow’s STAR headline news would read:

    Lee Wang Yen, a Cambridge-trained scholar, has led a breakaway faction of the DAP together with one-time DAP legal counsel Jeffrey to form a new party to be called the Anti-Theocratic Party (ATP).

    The ATP aims to unite all those who are against a theocratic state. According to Jeffrey, there has never been a successful theocratic state in the history of the world. Theocracy also works against accountability and transparency, and would result in more brain-washing of their supporters to promote their own longetivity of tenure. In other words, there can be no democracy as we know it in a theocratic state, according to ATP’s founders.

    “The possibilities are endless” says Lee.

  60. #60 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 5:44 pm

    You’ll make a good journalist

  61. #61 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 5:52 pm

    I may yet succeed Wong Chun Wai as Chief Editor.

  62. #62 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 6:06 pm

    who cannot quite make up his mind whether his fanatical application of sterile logic combined with venomous writing style will be better used in The Star or Harakah :)

  63. #63 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 6:10 pm

    yes good for The Star, Wong Chun Wah will have finally got a successor who could do better than him on impartial journalism

  64. #64 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 6:13 pm

    My “venomous writing style” will be better suited for when your third force comes into being. I’ve had enough of (a) or (b) and I am just waiting for (c) to happen so that I can write about it.

  65. #65 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 6:16 pm

    Wong Chun Wai was just too blatant, particularly after he got his pingat. I will not be so blatant, until they offer me that pingat.

  66. #66 by OrangRojak on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 6:24 pm

    Lee Wang Yen: “many moderate Muslims do not support”
    How many? Godfather et al’s motivation is fairly clear, even if it is on the pragmatic side of reasonable: BN campaigns as a single entity, a smorgasbord of racist, religious and self-promoting interests – there’s something in there for nearly anybody whose tastes run to religion, racism or payments-in-kind. The compelling reason for the formation of PR is size.

    I searched google images for “malaysia voting slip” earlier when my wife told me she recalled seeing the dacing on the slip she completed. The image I saw online was of a slip with a dacing and a rocket on it. If Malaysia’s voting rules permit groups of parties to conspire to win a single vote, that puts a third option (and with it, principled voting) pretty much out of the question.

    There were Independent wins this year, same as there were new millionaire owners of websites nobody had ever heard of until they were bought by Google, Microsoft or eBay. The Independents may not have been parties of principle in the same way the new websites may not actually have lived up to their promise. Internet commentators often describe the web startups as people ‘with targets painted on their backs’: their sole aim is to capture the popular imagination and the attention of a cash-rich / popularity-hungry megacorp. How many Independents are in PR? How many are in opposition, but not in PR?

    There’s no proportional representation in Malaysia – it’s first past the post. The BN mega-party gives them a huge head start over independent parties. LKS could go Independent and start the “Reasonable Old Bloke Who Asks Difficult Questions Parti”, but he would immediately exclude himself from winning anything off his own turf. The argument is the same for any sub-group of PR, only the scale is slightly different. As a newcomer to Malaysia, the lengths to which people go to to subvert perfectly sensible rules is difficult for me to comprehend. But that’s the local game, and the winner holds the rule book.

    I keep meaning to put a website online, I have a good domain name for it, I think. Since I’m in Malaysia as a guest, I was planning to make it a political parody site, but with a manifesto along the lines of compliance with UN resolutions; transparency; direct involvement; tax as a colour-blind means of fairly distributing wealth, welfare and national reconciliation; life-long education; special rights for ‘sons of the soil’ where the requirement is 3G Malaysian; and {race,religion}-free law but constitutionally protected heritage. It could be a good place for conjecture about what could be, given an ideal world. Since you seem particularly skilled at rousing passionate responses (are you married?) I’ll send you an invitation to assume the presidency as soon as it’s online.

  67. #67 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 6:29 pm

    Good suggestion I always encourage people to fulfill their life long ambition, if your particular application of sterile logic combined with venomous writing will help you get there faster to get the pingat, the panacea for curing certain types of insecurity, go for it! Certainly beats relying on handle like Godfather in virtual environment for recompense.

  68. #68 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 6:31 pm

    “It is really in bad taste. Not just because it enables OKT/MCA & MSM/The Star to play up the Islamic state issue against PR.” Jeffrey

    If it enables the BN propaganda machine to feed off the political fodder provided by PAS, how would riling up the base of the party (DAP) help cement the already brittle ties among the coalition partners?

    “While there is a possibility that some will quit DAP when DAP quits PR, there is also a possibility that some will join DAP and that some parties will join DAP’s new coalition. We’re all dealing with possibilities and there is no reason to think that the former is more probable than the latter” Lee

    Politics is not about the study of probabilities, of mathematical equations etc. It is a study and understanding of human nature – a behavioral science that doesn’t easily lend itself to the kind of analysis we see in the other physical sciences.

    “The fundamental ideological clash between DAP and PAS is a problem it must face up to honestly and courageously.” Lee

    It is ideology vs. pragmatism.

    DAP has found itself in a political straight-jacket precisely because of its singular approach and its preoccupation with ideological issues to the exclusion of everything else. It is time it learns from its past mistakes. After decades at the helm Kit still leads the party but I feel he senses that the ideological approach is fast giving way to the politics of pragmatism. Continue playing the zero-sum game and there will emerge a winner. By no stretch of the imagination could the DAP be that winning party.

  69. #69 by mendela on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 6:39 pm

    I have stopped putting ad in Star since 2 years ago.
    I too advised all my suppliers to do the same.

  70. #70 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 6:40 pm

    DAP must not be led by idealogues like Lee, and driven by ideology.

  71. #71 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 6:40 pm

    Don’t worry, Lee is going to assume the presidency of the Third Force, with Jeffrey as his legal advisor. I think they recognise they can’t persuade Kit to abandon PR (despite more than a year of trying) so they are catching on to the idea of breaking away and starting the Third Force.

    Now comes the test of whether they have the [email protected] to actually start something that they claim to be passionate about.

  72. #72 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 6:45 pm

    What idealogues ? These are just kids (in the political sense) who think that they have the best formula – and who won’t take no for an answer. And who don’t have the guts to actually do something on their own.

  73. #73 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 6:54 pm

    Lee should stick to writing articles for his journal.

  74. #74 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 6:56 pm

    I don’t think the issue is so much about Kit/DAP abandoning PR than taking a stand when both DAP & PKR could summon the will – which is not certain when – to kick PAS out due to its incessantly provoking feuds within the PR Coalition. Or maybe PAS may do so on its own accord to join BN on back bone of Malay unity talks. Whether that would trigger a chain of events that lead to a better situation (for the country and its politics as a whole and not just any individual party, DAP or PKR), I am unable to say at this moment.

  75. #75 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 6:59 pm

    ” Whether that would trigger a chain of events that lead to a better situation (for the country and its politics as a whole and not just any individual party, DAP or PKR), I am unable to say at this moment.” Jeffrey

    While you ponder the unponderables, opportunites are being lost. What the DAP does not have is the luxury of time!

  76. #76 by pky103 on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 8:18 pm

    – I am beginning to dislike The Star. Their reporting is rather lob-sided and fails to give a balanced analysis.

    – But again, what can I expect from a publication that is owned by the MCA?

  77. #77 by juno on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 9:25 pm

    So much for the MSM and the destruction of the environment conversely. Those trees saved by not having the STAR would have helped in giving us hope for the world. The Star is a destructive force to society- http://sjsandteam.wordpress.com/
    Does the ruling govt realize how dangerous they are to society in the misinformation overtures?

  78. #78 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 9:31 pm

    Jeffrey’s suggestion that DAP and PKR should sack PAS from PR is compatible with my proposal. The bottom-line of my proposal is that DAP should get into a coalition without UMNO and PAS. If DAP and PKR could expel PAS from PR, the new PR would be acceptable. If this proves too difficult, then DAP should quit PR to form a third coalition. The bottom-line is a coalition without UMNO and PAS.

    Perhaps the new coalition can be called ‘The Democratic Alliance’ or ‘Perikatan Demokrasi’ (PD). It should be committed to secular democracy and racial equality. As a liberal and progressive Muslim, Anwar might be willing to lead PD. It seems to me that PD will also attract parties like Gerakan. MCA and MIC can perhaps disband and join other multi-racial parties or form new multi-racial parties before joining PD.

  79. #79 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 10:25 pm

    The bottom-line is a coalition without UMNO and PAS – Lee Wang Yen . It is possible only if the malay ground is not by overwhelming majority remain divided between either of the two, which for long as this subsists, DAP/PKR would have to put up with PAS’s provocations, if they were, at the same time, not to lose their recent electoral gains as a coalition and distance themselves further from prospects of dislodging BN & winning Federal control. (Here we’re limiting the goal just to dislodging the BN, whether or for the price and pragmatism of that, it will irreversibly usher the country precariously nearer to the precipice of theocracy to the detriment of all is nother separate question).

    The severance of of the ideologically more compatible DAP and PKR
    from the ideologically opposed PAS is possible – with prospects of others in BN (alienated with UMNO crossing over) – only if enough of the moderate Malay ground move to support PKR if not DAP in combination.

    There are two questions here to be resolved.

    (1) what constitutes “enough” – 40 to 50% ??? who and how to determine that?

    (2) the chicken & egg issue of which ought rightly come first, whether for example PKR/DAP have to wait for the critical mass of 40 to 50% referred to in (1) to move first, and then sever from PAS OR the other way around, sever first at some point of time in order to accelerate the development and obtaining of that critical mass…..

  80. #80 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 10:45 pm

    In principle I agree with Jeffrey’s latest post. If there is sufficient support for PKR from moderate Malays, PKR and DAP may be in a better position to expel PAS. However, there may be other technical difficulties. Since PR was established on the terms of equal partnership and collective leadership, PAS might argue on this basis that PKR and DAP have no right to expel PAS from PR.

    In that case, it would be easier for PKR and DAP to pull out of PR to form PD.

  81. #81 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 10:52 pm

    Hey, what happened to the third force to be called Anti Theocratic Party (ATP) ? What happened to its president Lee and its legal advisor Jeffrey ?

    Why does it have to involve DAP at all ? You guys don’t have enough support to go your own way ?

  82. #82 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 10:52 pm

    One possible disagreement between Jeffrey and I (if I read the first part of his latest post correctly) is as follows: I think DAP should try its best to get into a coalition without PAS or UMNO (whether by expelling PAS from PR or forming PD). When that fails, we should accept the lesser evil of not fulfilling the goal of wresting the control of the federal government from BN.

  83. #83 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 10:55 pm

    Thus, I do not think that DAP should put up with PAS any longer. Whether Jeffrey indeed disagrees with me on this count depends on whether I read the first part of his latest post correctly.

  84. #84 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 10:56 pm

    No, it shouldn’t be called ‘Anti-Theocratic Party’. ‘Perikatan Demokrasi’ may be a good idea.

  85. #85 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 10:58 pm

    I had thought of tipping Wong Chun Wai off about the formation of the anti-Islamist party by dissident members of DAP. Looks like the headlines will have to wait till Lee and Jeffrey gather enough courage to do something on their own.

    Instead of pestering the DAP leadership ad nauseum about pulling out of PR, about boycotting the KT by-election.

  86. #86 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 11:00 pm

    For all you know, Kit Siang or other DAP leaders might like the idea of PD.

  87. #87 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 11:06 pm

    PD doesn’t sound good. It sounds like some seaside town we all know. “Do you support PD ?” could be construed as supporting a holiday destination.

    Nah, you guys should call YOUR party DAPAT – Democratic Action Party against Theocracy. At least then people will know you are an offshoot of the original DAP.

  88. #88 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 11:08 pm

    I know for sure that Kit and other DAP leaders are waiting for you and Jeffrey to break away and form your own little party. In fact, they all want you guys to do it quickly.

  89. #89 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 11:10 pm

    I always admire your sense of humour

  90. #90 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 11:22 pm

    Who’s joking ?

  91. #91 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 11:51 pm

    I suppose Individuals and rakyat like us would be concerned with principles of “good acountable and transparent governance” equal oportunity and fairness of applications of rules and laws. The reason is that where such principles are applied, we, as rakyat benefit, as rightly ought to be the case.

    You should excuse me being a cynic.

    My view is that politicians and coalition partners – whether BN or PR – would pay attention to principles only to the extent that by being perceived so by their constitutencies and electors favourably, they could get elected to power to be able in turn to leverage on that power for its continuance, for so long as possible….

    That being the case the main principle by which politicians including Opposition PR politicians operate is the calculation of which route gets them nearest and quickest to power by dislodgment of the incumbent.

    It is dominanely a cost versus benefit evaluation in terms of which gives quicker access or impediment to attaining power that bear on the equation of whether to stay or leave or sack anyone from a coalition at any given time.

    I do not think technical difficulties arising from how to expel PAS from coalition and whether it would be more technically feasible for PKR and DAP to pull out instead are important or decisive : either way is Ok and whichever way there are a million excuses depending on whether if or when a coalition partner or partners want to do it.

    So the method of split (who evicts or retires) is not but whether, on the balance of cost and benefit in relation to power, one wants to split in the first place and if so when is best time and circumstances to do so will be decisive.

    Since I started (rightly or wrongly) on first premise that end/objective of politicians/coalition partners is primarily power, and in terms of ideological principles, only secondarily [to the extent of how much their constituencies/electorate’s perception of their adherence to principles translates to voting support serving the ends of power], then there is but only one crucial consideration and calculation – ie whether or when sufficient of the moderate Malay ground has moved to PKR’s side or DAP in combination – or perception thereof by PKR/DAP’s politicians. In short the cost and benefit based on (1) and (2) of my preceding posting at 22: 25.36 above.

    This (beyond anything else) will mainly determine the questions of if and when it is neccesary if at all for PKR/DAP to effect the split and also whether other alienated component parties within the BN will cross over to the perceived winning side.

  92. #92 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 11:55 pm

    “It seems to me that PD will also attract parties like Gerakan. MCA and MIC can perhaps disband and join other multi-racial parties or form new multi-racial parties before joining PD.”

    MCA joining this so-called Democratic Alliance? Interesting thought but it’s not gonna happen. Do you know why?? Too much bad blood between the leaders.

    For far too long their leaders have tasted the Fruit of the Forbidden Tree – and enjoyed it. Their leaders are quite happy playing the role of the sidekick to want to change. They will just have to be less of a sidekick.

    The more likely scenario is a new crop of leaders somehow come to take over the reins in UMNO. They will revitalize the support of the Malay base of their party who are temporarily distracted by Anwar. Anwar’s agenda is too radical to be readily accepted by the conservative base of the party.

    Already what is happening is proof enough for those who are skeptical of the opposition’s ability to run the state governments in ways that are independent of the center. The support of the federal government cannot be dispensed away with, and is in fact vital. So why not let BN retain power, structurally weakened though it may be because of the in-fighting, but with a reduced majority – with a strong opposition.

  93. #93 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 11:59 pm

    Humour (as emanting from a perceived joke) is an attribution more charitable to its maker than the only other alternative of ludicrousness.

  94. #94 by undergrad2 on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:08 am

    Malaysia is not ready for a full-fledged democracy in the western sense. After some twenty years of being under benevolent authoritarianism and with the kind of political stability it showed until recently, and steady economic progress, the country would do well to proceed with some slight variations along the same political trajectory. The gradual process of democratization of the country’s institutions must be allowed to proceed and recent measures at stultifying public dissent through the use of legislation must be rolled back.

    The Wise One has spoken!

  95. #95 by Jeffrey on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:12 am

    “So why not let BN retain power, structurally weakened though it may be because of the in-fighting, but with a reduced majority – with a strong opposition” – Undergrad2.

    You are saying this exactly from whose point of view, and advantage?

    If it were from rakyat or even PK’s view points, it is no comfort.

    Things may not be static. A structurally weakened BN could repair
    that structure; and a strong Opposition on 8th March may be weakened over time by the Center/Federal Government in control of funds and laws impeding the Opposition’s ability to run the state governments. As you earlier observed, “DAP (and rest of PKR) does not have is the luxury of time!”

  96. #96 by undergrad2 on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:16 am

    In fact in the case of Malaysia, a full-fledged democracy in the true western sense is a pipe dream! It is the opium of the politically disenfranchised and the economically disadvantaged.

    The Wise One has spoken.

  97. #97 by undergrad2 on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:21 am

    “I know for sure that Kit and other DAP leaders are waiting for you and Jeffrey to break away and form your own little party. In fact, they all want you guys to do it quickly.” Godfather

    It makes more sense to join the many ‘sarong’ parties that have cropped up in Bangsar.

  98. #98 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 6:54 am

    I think the structure of equal partnership and collective leadership is a powerful factor that will prevent DAP and PKR from expelling PAS from PR. As you say, DAP and PKR want to be perceived by the electorate in such a way that will not be detrimental to their goal of retaining power and attaining more power. I’m sure DAP and PKR do not want to be perceived as the big bully UMNO.

    Also, given PAS’ role in helping PKR to gain seats and in Anwar’s by-election victory, PKR would not want to be perceived as a traitor by taking the initiative to expel a party which has helped them to gain power. However, if DAP pulls out of PR citing irreconcilable ideological differences, PKR’s subsequent move to pull out of PR to join PD will be perceived in a less negative light. Of course, they will still be concerned about being perceived as a traitor. But they would think that joining PD after DAP had made the initiative to pull out (and especially after many BN component parties like GERAKAN have joint PD) would incur less negative perception than to take the initiative to expel PAS.

  99. #99 by limkamput on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 7:37 am

    I thought this thread is about the Star, how we should find ways to make sure that the paper pays for its continued biasness. Instead you fellows have chosen to continue debating this good for nothing topic. Listen up, this was what i posted in the previous thread:

    To you fellows, listen up good: it does not matter whether it is 929 Islamic State or Hudud, they should all be shafted for good. Which one should go first, I don’t really care. I just know that BOTH of them have to go, the sooner they are laid to rest the better. This country “chia pa siew eng” (I think our stomach is too full), that is why we are forever indulging in all the good for nothing notion about god and religion as if they are going to make a big difference in our life. Religions have been used and reused for political and self interest reasons for centuries and yet somehow we never seem to get it. I see hypocrites and cheats everywhere among the religious institutions. Please keep what your believe private. You are a bloody hypocrite if you impose your religious belief on others. I say this without any qualm, listen up.

  100. #100 by undergrad2 on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 8:28 am

    Ok. We’re all up and listening.

  101. #101 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 8:47 am

    Limkamput: With your long service medal, and with your command of Queen’s English, I am surprised that you can easily fly off the handle, and claim that what is being discussed here has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

    In this thread, as in another previous thread, we have two academics who basically agree with Ong Ta Kut and with what Wong Chun Wai has written in the STAR – the DAP should boycott the KT by-election, and the DAP should demand that PAS drop all discussion on Hudud. Better still, these academics want DAP to boot PAS out of PR, and if that fails, for DAP to exit PR.

    These shameless academics go on and on about the dangers of Islamisation, a topic we discussed extensively a year ago prior to elections. Thankfully the electorate thought otherwise and now PR has control of 5 state governments. Still, these shameless academics are not convinced, and are trying to play their broken record about the doom that Bolehland will face with a federal PR administration.

    Now, I tell these shameless academics to take their academia elsewhere, to form their own splinter party. I even suggested what their splinter party should be called. However, they obviously don’t have the [email protected] to break away and form their own party, despite telling everyone that their party would have wide-ranging support.

    What else can we say ? I mean, we have the CEC of the DAP deciding on a course that a small minority object to, and this small minority keeps sniping like some dogs who won’t let go of our ankles. This small minority want to undermine the decision of the CEC, so they provide ammunition to people like Ong Ta Kut and Wong Chun Wai.

    I have always said that UMNO is predicated on people who don’t understand the meaning of the word “shame”. I can easily apply this doctrine to the couple of academics here.

    So, Limkamput, we are not off topic. Perhaps you can also tell these academics not just to keep their religious beliefs to themselves but also to stop their attacks on PR in this blog.

  102. #102 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 8:51 am

    In short, I’m saying that the morally right thing for DAP to do as a principled party faithful to its commitment to a secular democracy is to pull out of PR and form a third coalition.

    Some may think that this morally right thing to do may not be the pragmatically right thing to do, i.e. an action that will serve the goal of retaining power and gaining more power. But it remains to be argued whether this is the case. It seems to me that staying on in PR with PAS may not serve this goal very well either. Pulling out and forming an alliance with a political ideology more consistent with DAP may serve the goal better, given that the ideology is also consistent with most non-extremist, non-racist parties that are deemed as liberal and progressive. Of course, this remains to be argued in greater details.

  103. #103 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 8:55 am

    In fact, these academics are so convinced of their plan they even have a name for the new Third Force – PD. They are so convinced that they will have the support of moderate Malays who don’t believe in the Islamic State.

    Of course, these academics are nothing more than racists in disguise, believing in the superiority of their own anti-Islamist thinking. They have simply seized upon Wong Chun Wai’s article to provoke more discord amongst the PR parties.

  104. #104 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 9:10 am

    A commitment to secular democracy does not entail an anti-Islamic stance, just like such a commitment is compatible with my own theistic belief. As someone who believes in God, I think I can consistently defend a secular democracy.

    The fact that I suggest that DAP should work with liberal and progressive Muslim leaders such as Anwar shows that I’m not anti-Islamic (in fact, I even suggested that Anwar should lead the PD), unless one equate PAS’ fundamentalist Islam with Islam. Rejecting theocracy does not entail rejecting theism. An anti-Islamic-fundamentalism stance does not entail an anti-Islamic stance. Many religious people advocate separation of church and state.

    At any rate, such a commitment has nothing to do with race. I wonder how someone concludes that a commitment to secular democracy entails racism.

  105. #105 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 9:15 am

    Lim Kit Siang has reiterated his commitment to secular democrarcy and opposition to Islamic state and Hudud Law. I’m just arguing what he should do to be consistent with his anti-Islamic-state stance (of course, he and others may disagree with me on what he should do to be consistent with this stance). At any rate, his anti-Islamic-state stance does not make him an anti-Islamist racist. This is the distinction we must bear in mind.

  106. #106 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 9:27 am

    By the way, my arguments are not meant to convince Godfather, who takes me to be a kid. So there is really no need for Godfather to keep on calling me a dog (lapdog) or someone like a dog (as in one of his latest posts). If he doesn’t like my points and arguments, he should just ignore them after debating them if he cares to do so.

    My arguments are meant for those who are willing to discuss the issue rationally. If you have a rational argument, please state it. Otherwise it would be better to igore my posts than to respond with abuses.

  107. #107 by Bigjoe on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 9:46 am

    if this was not bad enough, note this by NST:

    Selengor MB takes tabloid to task for articles
    By : Mazlinda Mahmood

    SHAH ALAM, SELANGOR, SUN:

    Selangor Menteri Besar Tan Sri Abdul Khalid Ibrahim has taken an English daily to task today for articles entitled ‘Rift in Pakatan’ and ‘Kapar MP free to go, says Khalid’.

    In a press statement from his office, he said nothing was mentioned on ‘Kapar MP is free to go’ as suggested in the article.

    “During the press conference, I said the Kapar MP was free to make his own decision and that he was mature enough to make a good decision as a representative to more than 100,000 voters in his constituency and a member of PKR.

    “I also repeatedly stated that the best forum to thrash out issues would be the party’s political bureau,” he said.

    He stated that at no time during a short press conference at The Curve on Dec 27, after opening the state’s Christmas celebration, did he said that ‘he was not interested to meet Kapar member of Parliament S. Manikavasagam’.

    He had instead said that as a parliamentarian, ‘it would be a better avenue for the MP to meet the party’s leaders’ when asked if he was willing to meet the Kapar MP.

    Abdul Khalid, in the statement said that he took the distortion of facts seriously.

  108. #108 by Jeffrey on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 10:10 am

    After explaining to Limkamput, that “we are not off topic” Godfather exhorts “perhaps you can also tell these academics not just to keep their religious beliefs to themselves but also to stop their attacks on PR in this blog”.

    In earlier thread (Will OKT lead MCA) he attempted to drag Undergrad2 in for help : h e told me that that if I didn’t know what I was holding on both hands, and “if Cambridge can’t give an answer, Undergrad2 will gladly give you the answer” – Yesterday at 11: 45.14 .

    Godfather has been ranting about “shameless academics” wanting to form a “third force” – PD – who by the way according to him are also “racists” wanting “to undermine the decision of the CEC, attack PR, so they provide ammunition to people like Ong Ta Kut and Wong Chun Wai”….

    It is a delusional and paranaoic thing for Godfather to make a big issue about “academics” influencing “decision of either Kit or “CEC” or in the position to give “ammunition to people like Ong Ta Kut and Wong Chun Wai”….

    For heaven sake this is only a blog by which a contraiety of views have been canvassed to discuss issues affecting the nation to which we are all concerned albeit may not share same views on their solutions.

    This is not about Lee Wang Yen or academics trying to make or break any coalition and build and promote a third force. They have neither such means nor intention. Here is just a forum to b ounce of ideas.

    In reality it is all about you trying to rally and build even within this blog, a coalition of like minded persons not just persuaded to your views but your overriding compulsion to shut others up of opinions to your distate, exacerbated by paranoia.

    Come on, Godfather, don’t be pathetic, be your own man, no be a man, fight your own wars, speak your own case, you don’t need to cajole and nudge others to join coalition with you to argue and vindicate your point of view.

    If you have any substance and reason in what you say, you will be comfortable in the rightousness of what you say even if 9.999% of readers here are against your view.

    Others have your own opinion and can speak for themselves if and when they deem appropriate, and have no reason to be made use of to reinforce your own petty wars.

    You have evinced a pathological condition of raising irrelevant issues, calling names (eg “lapdog”, “kid”, “academics”), even writing an advertisement purportedly for a news paper :) just to ridicule views incompatible to your emotional leanings (I won’t say intellectual leanings for I can’t find it anywhere) and in the process hijack the larger purpose of this blog to canvas and discuss points of view even though they may be divided by your small personal purpose of trying to dominate it with only your point of view by choking it with a plethora of sequential rantings and ridiculing of others and calling for support all the time. You even admitted that you “fumed” when discussing issues so what can anyone expect out of you in t erms of civility an d rationality in discourse??

    You really have a problem, but don’t project it to this blog in frustration of civil exchange.

  109. #109 by Jeffrey on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 10:14 am

    Sorry for typo omission – should be “90.999%” not 9.999%

  110. #110 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 10:29 am

    The lapdog writes things like “Jeffrey, your observations are so sharp” and that should please PD’s legal advisor. The next thing the lapdog would say would be “Jeffrey, your fart has no smell”.

    Just like monsterball, we old warhorses don’t need help from others. Whether it is 90.999% or 9.999 % or 99.99%, we have no time to deal with the theoretical possibilities espoused by those who may not even be registered to vote.

    Unfortunately the academics deal with academia only and they don’t know the meaning of the word “shame” when their position is already rejected by the party that they claim to support.

  111. #111 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 10:34 am

    Like many lawyers, Jeffrey can only think of “on the one hand, DAP is not supporting my view, and on the other hand, I have no [email protected] to break away and start my own party”, so in the end he ends up with holding only one thing in both his hands.

  112. #112 by pee_ash on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 10:34 am

    long live DAP!
    btw, can someone get the lee fella out of the house?

    otk changed a lot after promotion. no more dare to speak, shame on him!

  113. #113 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 10:41 am

    Godfather either ignores my disagreements with Jeffrey in previous threads as well as the present one or has a genuine difficulty in recognising the existence of a disagreement when it is expressed in a civil manner. If the latter is true, then it seems that a good explanation is that a genuine disagreement can only exist from his point of view when abuses and insults are hurled. On his criteria of ‘disagreement’, I’m indeed a lapdog of Jeffrey, since on those criteria, nothing I write is in disagreement with Jeffrey’s views.

  114. #114 by Jeffrey on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 10:46 am

    When Lee Wang Yen suggests a “third force” (PD) he is giving ideas to DAP/Kit of what he perceives is a viable alternative in the longer run.

    Now Kit may or may not take such a view into consideration.

    We ourselves may or may not agree. If we don’t agree we could state so and tell Lee Wang Yen why it won’t work.

    Just because we disagree there is no need to ridicule Lee Wang Yen’s suggestion and impute motives that he and academics are out to undermine PR or asasinate character b y calling names like racist, kid ( as m eaning not experienced) etc.

    What Godfather expects are “yes-men” allied to his view. However that is your own pathological condition : don’t project it to Kit or the DAP. They need ideas even ideas critical of them so that they could deliberate and choose options.

    They don’t need a set of uniform ideas in stark black – white terms as G odfather would have it, that everything P R does is right and everything else that the “den of thieves” – to borrow Godfather’s major contribution, the hackneyed expression (den of theieves??) – does is wrong.

    To give alternative ideas even criticisms is a service to the DAP’s and PR’s, and even the wider nation’s Cause, not to undermine it as petty minds would have us think so.

    So to impute motives (of academics trying to undermine PR) is a naked attempt to rable rouse emotions in this blog and to galvanise the ciollective voice to shut up and silence people of opinions whom Godfather does not share.

    It is a bad motive on his part; a bad tactic, serving neither PKR/DAP’s wider cause much less nations but his own personal insecurities who could only be assuaged by reinforcement of others views that he is right and those whom he attacks and hurls abuses are wrong and villians to the common cause.

    Like I said before if you have emotional/psychiological complexes of these sorts, you take the proper measure of seeking professional help if needs be, you c anot get th e requisite therapy by conducting the excahneg the way you do here.

  115. #115 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 10:47 am

    Woof, woof !

  116. #116 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 10:51 am

    The STAR’s headline as quoted by Kit:

    “DAP advised to boycott polls – Ong tells party to prove it opposes hudud”.

    No need for circular and long-winding arguments from the PD representatives here. Just tell us whether you are in agreement with the STAR’s headline above.

    Yes or No would suffice. No need for “ifs” and “buts”.

  117. #117 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 10:59 am

    I don’t think I am right all the time. I am only right most of the time. I share in the values of democracy where the needs of the majority outweigh the needs of the few. If I happen to be the few, then I either toe the line to be with the majority or form my own party with those who share my views.

    In your case, your views have been rejected by the very party you purport to support, and yet you have the shameless ability to snipe from the comfort of your desk, providing ammunition to your party’s detractors.

    What I don’t understand is why you don’t have the grace to accept your party’s decision or leave to form your own splinter party. No money or no guts, or both ?

  118. #118 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 10:59 am

    I have already responded to that question in a previous post, and the response was straightforward, not long-winded at all. Let me repeat it.

    ‘DAP should get into a coalition without PAS or UMNO either by expelling PAS or forming PD.’

    With this, the question of boycotting the KT by-election does not even arise.

  119. #119 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 11:12 am

    I would not normally bother to respond to these infantile comments by theoreticians if not for the fact that I know that these clowns have a hidden agenda – to sow fear into the electorate about the dangers of Islam and Islamisation. Yes, these guys purport to argue their case here because of their need to demonstrate how “backward” a religion that conflicts with theirs is.

    This is racism at its worst – to hide behind a political party that has decided that cooperation, not confrontation, is the right way forward, and making use of this party’s organs to spew hatred and fear.

    Thank goodness the electorate isn’t buying their message of doom and gloom.

  120. #120 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 11:14 am

    Godfather has a strange principle of democrarcy, according to which DAP, PKR, and PAS have been acting undemocratically.

    The majority of Malaysians have chosen BN in all general elections, including 2008.

    But that does not mean that it is there is anything undemocratic or wrong for DAP, PKR etc to continue to persuade Malaysians to reject BN and opt for them and their policies.

  121. #121 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 11:17 am

    oops… ‘…does not mean that [strike out ‘it is’] there is..’

  122. #122 by Jeffrey on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 11:17 am

    Godfather’s remark that “ I share in the values of democracy where the needs of the majority outweigh the needs of the few” is untenable because Demcracy protects rights of minority unlike the situation here, the majority…. If what you say were true why don’t you support the BN which has majority parliamentaery seats representing majority of voters?

    In respect to your other point “In your case, your views have been rejected by the very party you purport to support”, I am glad you speak for the DAP or its Central Committee about a point of view (ie 3rd Force) just brought up by Lee Wang Yen, what a day or two ago.

    Again you have n o sense of relevancy. What does acceptance or rejection by DAP or its Central Committee have to do with any personal view expressed by any commentator here?

    Just like the other presumptious remark, “What I don’t understand is why you don’t have the grace to accept your party’s decision or leave to form your own splinter party.”

    Your party’s decision? You’re saying anyone here whom you disagree here (Lee Wang Yen for example) is a registered party member of DAP? You know that as a fact ?

    I am not. I have not said any particular political party is my party. I have said before I side which ever side holds the truth for the wider cause and benefit of our country. It is not partisan so why are still harping on the wrong track?

    You say, “I don’t think I am right all the time. I am only right most of the time”.

    “… I am only right most of the time…” hmmm.

    I am glad you think that of yourself. I can’t say more, I can rest my case.

  123. #123 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 11:23 am

    There is no reason to say that someone who opposes Islamic state and advocates secular democracy hates Islam or Muslims. I think Kit Siang does not hate Islam or Muslims though he opposes Islamic state and advocates secular democracy.

  124. #124 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 11:24 am

    Thank you , President Lee of PD, for your confirmation of your stance that DAP should divorce itself from PAS and not having anything to do with PAS, whether it is for the KT by-election or anything else.

    That puts you in agreement with what Ong Ta Kut said and was quoted in the STAR, right ? Just yes or no would suffice.

  125. #125 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 11:27 am

    Do you have problem understanding the sentence ‘The question of …does not even arise’?

  126. #126 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 11:34 am

    “There is no reason to say that someone who opposes Islamic state and advocates secular democracy hates Islam or Muslims.”

    I would agree with that in theory. In practice, what you and Jeffrey have done, and did so before the March 8 elections, was to promote the weaknesses of the Islamic state through Islamic beliefs and pronouncements. For example, your legal advisor imputed that there cannot be a fair, transparent and accountable Islamic state because the religion does not allow such a system to exist. Your legal advisor imputed that there can be no advanced Islamic state because historically there has never been one. Your legal advisor explained that there will be mass indoctrination of Islamic beliefs in an Islamic state, and that would not allow for free and fair elections.

    I think I have said enough here. One commentator in a previous thread said that you are probably an MCA plant. I think you and your legal advisor are just misguided supremacists.

  127. #127 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 11:38 am

    President Lee, just humour me lah. Does this mean that you support the call by Ong Ta Kut that DAP boycott the KT by-election and prove that it opposes Hudud ? Yes or no will do. You are too young to use the phrase “the issue does not arise”.

  128. #128 by undergrad2 on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 11:43 am

    “Godfather Says:

    Today at 08: 47.37 (2 hours ago)
    Limkamput: With your long service medal, and with your command of Queen’s English…”

    Limkaput never set foot in England. He attended a community college in the U.S. paid for by the UMNO led government. Returned to Malaysia to serve the government for no less than twenty years. Was awarded the long service medal same as the department’s driver got. All in his own words. So how could you say he has command of the Queen’s English??? He’s constantly thinking in Malay and translating it to English.

  129. #129 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 11:44 am

    Lim Kit Siang has also highighted the weaknesses of theocracy in his previous writings. Indeed, the weaknesses of theocracy are the reason why we opt for secular democracy.

  130. #130 by Jeffrey on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 11:45 am

    Godfather, Lee Wang Yen has just contradicted you on your sweeping statement in his posting 11: 23.44 (3 minutes ago).

    Answer that or have the grace to admit that you have nefarious intention of describing him, whom you disagree, as “anti-Islam” just to shut him up. This is really a despicable habit on your part.

    How does calling him names like ‘President Lee of PD’ advance discussion or whever other miscellaneous things you’re saying???

    And you’re trying to be a trial advocate with your “yes or no, would suffice” :)

    No I don’t think you should be judge more than a lawyer since you have the prime pre-requisite and qualification – “judgmental!” :)

    And also the belief “I don’t think I am right all the time. I am only right most of the time”.

    Ever since I visited this blog I don’t recall any one else including regular contributors as having made such a claim “I am only right most of the time”.

    Your last statement vindicates succinctly all that I am saying here (which you have with some justifification describe as “long winded”) in trying to shed light as to why you conduct discussion in the dogmatic manner as you compulsively do here.

    Thank you for summarising my say so succinctly and sovereignly. :)
    l

  131. #131 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 11:46 am

    oops…’…highlighted…’

    sorry

  132. #132 by undergrad2 on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 11:49 am

    Lee Wang Yen having spent time in England has greater claim to the use of Queen’s English.

  133. #133 by Jeffrey on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 11:51 am

    Sorry it should be “No I think you should be judge more than a lawyer”, not the other way around, see how your cross examination confused me. :)

  134. #134 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 11:54 am

    You are most welcome, counselor, except that I don’t understand what “sovereignly” means. That’s besides the point. Can you then answer for President Lee as his legal advisor ? Are you in support of OTK’s statement as reported in the headline of the STAR ?

  135. #135 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 11:55 am

    One of the most admirable qualities I think the British have is their inclination and ability to discuss and argue things gentlemanly. I’m still learning and trying my best to emulate them.

  136. #136 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 11:57 am

    Undergrad2: Limkamput’s long service medal has nothing to do with his command of Queen’s English. Just read his colourful comment in the earlier thread about 2 young doctors trying to write a letter to the Health Minister.

  137. #137 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:01 pm

    Jeffrey has already addressed that question in his earlier comment, which I thought was a ‘sharp observation’. Godfather was too busy calling me a dog that he might have missed that ‘sharp observation’ of Jeffrey.

  138. #138 by Jeffrey on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:05 pm

    The other point that you are fond of saying is that people like Lee Wang Yen and me who warn the country against the danger of a theocratic islamic state are supremacist and racist, but you have not explained why these dangers are not real or even shown that you are aware of what theocratic islamic state implies, its foundation o f thought or system of government as may be drawn from example around.

    All you are paranoaic about is rid the den of thieves, by any any means and at any cost. Never mind in the process, the theocratic agenda is acquiesced to, not resisted and allowed to advance on the back of others not receptive of it ; never mind that once established a genda it may be irreversible…

    Your notion of what is long term well being of the country is just that measure of distance between your eyes and the tip of your nose, which I hope is protruding far enough, but from what I can see it is only up to the BN, and its displacement, full stop! :)

  139. #139 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:06 pm

    Not any dog. Just a lapdog, a poodle. Not the real type of dog.

  140. #140 by FY Lim on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:08 pm

    What is hudud law as advanced by PAS. This law is meant for to be for Muslims and applied to those who profess Islam as their religion. There are Chinese and Indians who are non-Muslims in Kelantan and if you care to ask them what is the implications of Hudud law being implemented , they would say that it is the Muslim way of life and they would not be affected.

    Well, BN magnified this hudud law for the coming KT by-election to create fear among the non-Muslims to fish for votes. They will then get PKR , DAP and other PR personalities to comment and then the newspapers will capitalise on the confusion created.

    The KT by-election is fought not based on Hudud laws alone but the greater issues of corruption , religious extremism , transparency, fair play , freedom of expression , non questioning on mother tongue language , etc. In fact UMNO had slept with PAS before and no one questioned their sincerity on this issue of hudud.

    The Chinese and Indians should be aware that the handouts and the sweet talks would not guarantee their survival in politics but the greater issues that affect their future generations. Do you want Gerakan leaders pictures to be stepped and torn and had to keep quiet about it ? Why is the BN national leaders keeping mum on this ? Is UMNO sincere on this ?

    All the races in the country are entitled to equal treatment and care before the law.

    The voters of KT should decide. DONT VOTE for the party because you had been given a good handout this time around. Your decision affects your children’s future.

  141. #141 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:10 pm

    Counselor, you honour me. I didn’t realise that the BN’s displacement is only the distance between my eyes and the tip of my nose. Hallelujah ! I like your optimism. If only you would stop bashing the Islamists. And keep your poodle under control.

  142. #142 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:14 pm

    According to Oxford Dictionary, ‘lap-dog’ is a real dog. Definitions from other sources confirm that a ‘lap-dog’ is a real dog.

    If you have discovered from the above paragraph that you’ve used a wrong word which you did not intend to use because you misunderstood that word, you should just admit it and apologise for unintentionally calling others animals, unless you had that intention after all.

  143. #143 by undergrad2 on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:19 pm

    The Republicans would like to see more de-regulation, a smaller government and lower taxes. The reason why the country has found itself in such a financial mess today is because there was too much de-regulation. Hefty tax cuts were given to the top 1%. The Democrats believe in a greater role for the government, more regulations, and higher taxes. The ideological distinction is never more pronounced.

    Yet we are seeing signs of the Obama Administration rolling back on tax increases because of the serious recession. The Republicans on the other hand have agreed to massive bailouts because they know they have no choice. This is in contrast to their core values as Republicans.

    So why are we mired in issues like religion? Kit understands this better than anybody else. We need a pragmatic approach if we are to work together to gain control of the federal government. Pragmatism must trump ideology. Keep issues like religion on the back burner. Focus on the economy.

  144. #144 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:21 pm

    Oxford Dictionary ? You mean Cambridge Dictionary, don’t you ? Read it up there, and you will find the true meaning of the word “lapdog”. In the Hokkien dictionary, it is called “Chau Kau”.

  145. #145 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:23 pm

    Thanks! Next time I’ll try Hokkien dictionaries when I read Godfather’s English posts.

  146. #146 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:25 pm

    Don’t be overly sensitive, President Lee of PD. You are definitely not an animal. Animals don’t go to Cambridge or use empirical evidence for their thesis.

    Take some advice from an old warhorse (and I’m not an animal either). If you want a long productive career in politics as president of a party, then you have to have a thick skin. Not unlike a lawyer’s skin.

  147. #147 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:25 pm

    It remains to be argued that working with PAS is a pragmatically more sensible approach compared with working with a coaltion without PAS and UMNO (i.e. PR without PAS or PD).

  148. #148 by OrangRojak on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:26 pm

    The to-and-fro of Political Fantasy Football has been entertaining. The ‘PD’ thing caught me off guard, nearly lost my tea laughing. I’m sure my local authority won’t mind you borrowing “The Sinking Ship of Port Dickson” for your party logo.

    Having crowbarred in a nautical theme, some of those arguing appear to be elderly, and can see a shore in the distance when they’d almost given up all hope after spending decades adrift. They don’t want anybody rocking the boat. Some players appear to have youth on their side and are saying “if there’s one beach, there’s bound to be a better beach elsewhere” and have started pulling at the oars.

    You’re both right, but while fighting over the oars, the boat might sink. Since the “better beach” participants have youth on their side, why not help the elderly row to their shore? It doesn’t really matter if they’re wrong, you’ve got a lifetime of tugging left in you. Once ashore, you can patch up your boat. After everybody has had a chance to explore the beach, you can hoist a new sail for an imagined promised land.

    Can DAP TV organise a broadcast with you lot arguing from the comfort of some expensive sofas? I’d watch that.

  149. #149 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:27 pm

    Godfather sounds like the BN MPs who talk like bullies in the parliament.

  150. #150 by Lee Wang Yen on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:28 pm

    oops… ‘…coalition…’

  151. #151 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:33 pm

    Me ? Talk like Tajuddin and the rest of the BN clowns ? Now I am getting offended.

  152. #152 by undergrad2 on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:34 pm

    ” Some players appear to have youth on their side and are saying “if there’s one beach, there’s bound to be a better beach elsewhere” and have started pulling at the oars.” Orang Rojak

    That will be Jeffrey and Lee Wang Yen.

  153. #153 by undergrad2 on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:37 pm

    Words of wisdom by OrangRojak.

  154. #154 by Godfather on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:39 pm

    Alright, boys, we have hogged enough of the limelight in the past couple of days. Let others have their say. Have a good day.

  155. #155 by OrangRojak on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:44 pm

    “Words of wisdom” all my own work too, for a change.

    One last, while I’m on a roll, this time back to other people’s words:

    To the Virgins, to Make Much of Time

    Gather ye rosebuds while ye may,
    Old Time is still a-flying:
    And this same flower that smiles to-day
    To-morrow will be dying

  156. #156 by sheriff singh on Monday, 29 December 2008 - 12:53 pm

    “Shame”? What “shame”?

    They are hardcore, thick-skinned, sycophants.

  157. #157 by localgrad on Tuesday, 30 December 2008 - 8:52 am

    Aiyo, this piece of “cha Siew” Wong CW is a eu-nuch la.

    Uncle Kit, I still remember this guy has been writing all the one-sided comments pre-3.08. Then, post-3.08, he tried to change his style amid readers grouses…

    A eu-nuch is a eu-nuch, his “thing” has been cut off and kept by MCA (his boss), u cant expect him to act like a man right?

  158. #158 by ekans on Thursday, 1 January 2009 - 3:58 am

    A colleague once e-mailed the journalists of one of these BN-controlled newspapers, asking them why they gave more exposure to the MIC members who demonstrated and made all sorts of politically motivated allegations against the Pakatan Rakyat Selangor state government over the demolition of a Hindu temple in Ampang when they should have focused more on what really mattered, which is a statement from the Hindu temple committee. He did not get a direct answer. However, soon after that, that newspaper finally published the temple committee’s statement that it had, earlier in a meeting, received MPAJ’s admission to demolishing the temple by mistake. Obviously, there was bias in reporting news with more publicity given to MIC in trying to gain more political mileage out of the issue.

  159. #159 by FY Lim on Thursday, 1 January 2009 - 5:28 pm

    Well, I see that every sentence or paragraph Lee Wang Yen wrote is about ” DAP kicking out PAS ” . PAS had ruled Kelantan and now is in control of Kedah state govt. Do you see any hudud laws being implemented in these two states that dehumanised human beings by cutting people’s hand ?
    No, in fact they are so open that they allow other religions to be practised freely.

    Why are you kicking a big fuss over nothing ? PAS had worked together with UMNO ruling Kelantan and Terengganu and yet no non-Muslim in Malaysia ever make a hue and cry.

    For your information, UMNO Kelantan said that they endorsed the hudud law implementation ! For what ? VOTE FISHING of course.

    Is it because of the upcoming elections in KT that the issue of hudud is being raised ? Is it because you can use this platform to raise fear among the non-Muslims so that votes goes to the other party?
    I bet you that this issue will be non-existent once the by-election is over.

    We should look at the broader issues of good governance , massive corruption , arrogance of power , cronyism , racial bigotry etc that besets this country rather than this issue of hudud which in the light of the Malaysian constitution can never be raised or implemented at all unless this country is 100% Muslim.

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