The Cabinet on Wednesday should issue a directive for a total halt to all temple demolitions in the country and set up a Royal Commission of Inquiry into Tuesday’s Kampung Rimba Jaya Sri Maha Mariaman Temple demolition in Shah Alam and to draw up national guidelines for all future demolitions to ensure they do not trample on religious and cultural sensitivities.
All temple demolitions should stop until the Royal Commission of Inquiry has come out with its report and recommendations for national guidelines for all future demolitions of places of worship which take fully into account the Merdeka social contract 50 years ago which assured all religions a rightful place in the country, the first Rukunegara principle of “Belief in God” as well as the religious and cultural sensitivities of a multi-religious and multi-racial Malaysia.
What happened at Kampung Rimba Jaya on Tuesday, where brute and naked force was displayed by the Shah Alam City Hall (MBSA) enforcement authorities in utter disregard of proper procedures, religious and cultural sensitivities in the demolition of the 40-year-old Sri Maha Mariaman Temple, resulting in many injured, 20 people including four lawyers arrested, has caused great damage to Malaysian nation-building and is most shameful especially in a year when the country is celebrating 50 years of independent nationhood.
The highhanded and reckless manner in which the Sri Maha Mariaman Temple was demolished had raised the question, not only in Malaysia but internationally, whether Malaysia really respects the fundamental and constitutional rights of Malaysians to “freedom of religion” as enshrined in Article 11 of the Federal Constitution.
It is no exaggeration to say that to a significant section of the Malaysian population, the 50th Merdeka anniversary celebrations have been rendered meaningless by such arbitrary actions by those in authority which are completely contemptuous of the legitimate rights and sensitivities of different communities and religions in the country.
This is why SUHAKAM, the Malaysian Consultative Council of Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Sikkhism and Taoism (MCCBCHST), Malaysia Hindu Sangam and various organizations including political parties had deplored and condemned the MBSA demolition actions.
This was also why DAP MP for Ipoh Barat and National Vice Chairman M. Kulasegaran had sought to have an emergency debate in Parliament on the temple demolition on Thursday but his motion was rejected by the Deputy Speaker, Datuk Lim Si Cheng on completely unacceptable grounds.
The Cabinet can go a long way to make amends for the great harm done to Malaysian nation-building and the country’s reputation of respect for all religions by Tuesday’s temple demolition by issuing a directive on Wednesday for an immediate halt to all demolitions of temples and places of worship, as well as establishing a Royal Commission of Inquiry tasked with two terms of reference:
- To inquire into Tuesday’s high-handed demolition of the Sri Maha Mariaman temple in Kampung Rimba Jaya near Shah Alam and to identify the state and local authority officials responsible for abuses and excesses of power; and
- To draw up national guidelines for all future demolitions of places of worship which do not trample on religious and cultural sensitivities by taking fully into account the fundamental right of “freedom of religion” assured to all Malaysians.
If the Cabinet on Wednesday can issue such a directive and set up such a Royal Commission of Inquiry, it will be the best Deepavali gift of the Malaysian government.
Let all Cabinet Ministers, whether MIC, MCA, Gerakan, UMNO or from the Sabah and Sarawak Barisan Nasional parties, prove that they can act in unison in the larger Malaysian interest on the occasion of the nation’s 50th Merdeka anniversary to lay a firm basis for a plural nation by ending all high-handed demolitions of temples and places of worship which trample on religious and cultural sensitivities, and in so doing, making a magnificent Deepavali present not only to Malaysian Hindus but to all Malaysians as well.
#1 by mwt on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 12:11 am
Off topic, for those interested what happen to Ronnie
It is most unfortunate that Ronnie Liu a tireless worker in the DAP and a CWC member in the process of trying to right an injustice had himself arrested but he was released in no time. But to add insult they are also investigating the preposterous notion that he is “linked to a prostitution syndicateâ€Â. More details at:
http://powerpresent.blogspot.com/2007/11/more-pics-dap-ronnie-liu-arrested.html
#2 by Old.observer on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 12:25 am
The demolition of the temple with 20 injured and 4 lawyers arrested is simply deplorable, whatever excuse the authority may try to give. Whoever is responsible should get a taste of the injury given out, so that they will be more respectful to everyone around them.
Even if the temple was built on illegal grounds, there should not be such urgency to demolish it, to the extent of injuring 20 people. In such a situation, personal and individual safety should override property considerations. What harm did the 20 injured threatened to the rest of the community? The temple, if it had been built on illegal grounds, has already been there for 40 years, so, why harm 20 people to only demolish it now? Why wasn’t it done last year? Why couldn’t it wait another day when there is no risk of harm to anyone? What’s the urgency?
To me, the Indian temple could have easily been a Buddhist temple, a Christian church, a Muslim mosque, and the principles and reasoning remains the same. The safety of the 20 individuals in this case surely overrides the urgency of demolishing a 40 year old place of worship.
And then, the police arrest the 4 lawyers … is this really necessary? Do the lawyers pose such a big threat to the community that they must be arrested? Why such a great urgency to hush things up after demolishing the temple? Or is this simply intimidation or “bullying” by the authorities to hush things up? Does the end justify the means?
There is no doubt in my own mind that the actions of the authorities are clearly wrong. This doesn’t mean the previous action (the temple built on illegal grounds) is right. But it means that two wrongs doesn’t make a right. There should be a proper channel to address such issues, especially when on the surface there doesn’t seem to be any urgency as to why the temple had to be demolished on that very day, to the extent of injuring 20 people.
The authorities should be held responsible for this terrible act, but somehow, I won’t be surprised if this event is swept under the carpet.
As Semi-Value likes to say “Semuanya OK”. Sigh.
Old Observer.
#3 by Old.observer on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 12:44 am
“When he got word that the Hotel was to be sealed he mustered 30 followers to prevent the seaingl. The Spa and the restaurant above were in no way related to the vice activities and were most probably run by other operators. Why deny them the right to operate?” – Present Point Power, Nov 3
___________
Sorry if off topic, but why obstruct justice?
I realize this is only a very small tip of a much bigger iceberg, I realize it isn’t fair, I realize there is a trap for Ronnie, but from the public perspective, isn’t raiding a vice a more important priority than worrying about a temporary loss of business (a few hours?) in the restaurant or spa?
I respect Present Point Power’s blog, but I find the reasoning somewhat weak, that Ronnie Liu would obstruct justice so that the restaurant and spa business could continue uninterrupted for a few hours. I also find the Visit Malaysia reasoning weak, as such a raid doesn’t need to last longer than 24 hours. (but do not hesitate to point out if I am wrong, as I am making an ass-u-me-tion here).
In fact, my immediate thought is that Ronnie Liu *might* (again, I am ass-u-me-ing, so, please correct me if I am wrong) have a vested personal interest to prevent the police from raiding (e.g. maybe, the charge that he is linked to prostitution could be true, otherwise, why try to stop the raid).
Sealing the hotel – judging from the news on TV – seems like a reasonable thing to do from a layperson’s perspective, since there could be fears that the GROs might try to escape.
Another question is why didn’t Ronnie Liu just let the police go on with the raid? Why waste DAP’s time and effort to stop something that the public considers to be a vice activity? A criticism could be that DAP is squandering its stretched and limited resources. Isn’t DAP’s resources already limited? So, why did Ronnie Liu try to “work so hard to rally 30 supporters” to fight this fight and give ammunition to BN to arrest him, and then, publicize it on TV for the mass rakyat to see? Yes, BN could be playing dirty by immediately playing up the link between Ronnie and prostitution, but why did Ronnie fell into this trap?
Sigh …
Old Observer.
#4 by K N on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 12:56 am
Regarding Ronnie Liu;s case. Dont know why he would want to protect the China Doll operation. I think it is silly to protest about everything. If the police action was the right thing, give it credit where it is due.
I think DAP must show maturity on how it takes on the world. There is a bigger war to fight out there. Dont waste your ammunition.
#5 by tidaknama on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 1:02 am
…but Zakaria’s mansion wasn’t even touched…but they tear down a place of worship with 2 hours notice? Very very sad indeed.
#6 by akarmalaysian on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 1:08 am
maybe the authorities are jealous…becos other “colors” pay to fill up their urge and that particular color only indulge in incests.other colors can get to go to spas and massages …they cannot.they wont admit even to their disgraceful deeds like that bus tard who molested an elderly lady cos hes connected to some bus tard big shot.its so common with the authorities in malaysia….they accept bribes and yet they will still take action and buat tak tau.these are truly scumbags of malaysian authorities.reason?….it takes scumbag leaders to breed scumbag followers in this government.i dun believe thr arent any good,capable and honest leaders in the government…its just that the scumbags outnumber them like the devils in the film “300”.
#7 by disapointed86 on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 1:24 am
i wonder what if the recent demolished indian temple is a mosque? will the authorities carry out the work in such an urgent? and even hurt those innocent civillianze….to all indian out there..i believe the authority/government shows no respect to all the indian community..such an obvious tragedy happen..as for SAMI VELU..he seems to be so calm.. is he protecting and taking care of the indian community? MIC? stand for? i saw a clip in malaysiakini about the reaction of the indian community there and they were so furious about what happen..civilized country but incivilized government…as for the coming GE..sami velu..prepare for the backlash~!!..
#8 by mwt on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 1:26 am
old observer,
You missed the point, read further down. The sealing was done 2 hours AFTER the raid and NOT sealing of door and exits to prevent escape DURING the raid.. It will be a permanent closing of the Hotel, Spa & Restaurant until further notice. And can you imagine HOW many workers in the SPA & Restaurant will be jobless in the meantime? Why penalized them? Isn’t this grossly unjustified?
#9 by bra888 on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 2:03 am
The Government destroy temples is just like the extremist destroying churches.
They have no respect for other peoples’ religion and believe their own religion is higher than other religion.
Unlike in the US, from what I’ve heard, their first constitution states that “no religion is higher than any other religion”. Maybe this country should have this as one of the constitution.
#10 by zack on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 3:17 am
Emergency imposed in Pakistan
Musharraf has been facing growing
opposition inside Pakistan [AFP]
General Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan’s president, has imposed emergency rule in the country.
State-run television reported on Saturday that the country’s constitution has been suspended.
Shortly afterwards, Iftikhar Chaudhry, the supreme court chief justice, was told his “services were no longer required” and replaced by a new chief judge.
Musharraf is to address the nation later on Saturday, a presidential aide said.
The decision to impose emergency on Saturday came after an extraordinary meeting chaired by Musharraf which was attended by senior government and security officials.
#11 by sheriff singh on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 3:32 am
Samy Vellu calls for him to be “consulted” first by the MB and any local councils before any demolition takes place. But this “hero” of the Indians is really being ignored by everyone and is really powerless. He talks but no one pays him any heed and he cannot get anything done.
I heard he was pelted with sticks and stones when he belatedly turned up at the cleared site. Not to mention the numerous foul words and gestures thrown at this powerless “leader-hero” who is supposed to represent the Indian community in the government. He’s just a figure head, a prop, nothing more. Why the community continues to support him I don’t know. Its time to show him the door.
#12 by zack on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 3:44 am
YB LKS… you must also mention that the demolition in Kg Rimba does not only involve the temple alone but its also involve the demolition a surau. Therefore this incident is not about “religion” at all. Its about people trespassing into government property. YB LKS must give a clearer picture so that people will make various assumption as is demonstartion by the comments of many our your readers here. To be fair, the MPSA should give the squatters a few more days to look for an alternative site.
[You are right. There is utter disregard of the rights of the squatters, regardless of race, as illustrated by the Malaysiakini report below. However, the problem of the reckless and rampant demolition of Hindu temples must be regarded as a specific problem by itself as to warrant specific Cabinet attention and action as proposed in the blog – RCI into the Kg Rimba Jaya Sri Maha Mariaman Temple incident with two terms of reference and a halt in the meanwhile to all nation-wide demolition of Hindu temples and places of workship. – kit.]
#13 by sk88 on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 5:37 am
Demolition of temples are no different from the actions taken by the Taliban regime which went around destroying the statues of buddhas. BN regime is no different from the Taliban – they are unable to reason and this is how they do things. They don’t have respect for any community but their own. Bullying and Mat Rempit attitudes are in their blood and so attacking defenceless Indians is not surprising. How else they would show they are in control?
Would saviours of Indians- the MIC and PPP would come to their rescue? Certainly not because Samy Velu and Kayveas are out there to satisfy their own needs and egos. Indians community should reject these guys, no doubt, but what other avenues do they have?
#14 by Filibuster on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 8:23 am
For all you know this might be a top tier ploy to force Samy Vellu out of the next election (to purposely make him lose) so that they can fill his ministerial role with another person. Not defending him in any way, but perhaps we should look at things from two different perspectives.
The destruction of the Indian temple was horrible. Despite the “illegal status” of the temple (deemed by the council), shouldn’t a proper and civic-minded approach be used? At the bare minimum they should have at least consulted the officials at the temple and helped them relocate if they were so damn bent on destroying the temple. But they didn’t, instead it seems from reports force was used. What kind of message does this send to the rest of Malaysia? It’s true that for many, “what doesn’t affect me doesn’t matter…”, but it is because of this tidak apa attitude we are in this mess that we are in currently.
I hope the DAP will put a firm stand on this in Parliament, if not to represent the voices of the Indian community, at least to reject the insensitive and rough approach by the local council involved.
#15 by smeagroo on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 8:25 am
let’s face it. If ppl like MIC can tell PPP to get out do u expect the BN goons to respect the minority?
#16 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 8:59 am
YB Kit is right that “the problem of the reckless and rampant demolition of Hindu temples must be regarded as a specific problem by itself as to warrant specific Cabinet attention and action as proposed in the blogâ€Â. This is because the government has always preached the importance of social equality, religious tolerance and respecting each others religious practices as part of the Bangsa Malaysia initiative to address the inherent challenges of multi-cultural and multi-religious challenges arising from our multi-racial society. Isn’t this yet another ‘cakap tak serupa bikin’ phenomenon?
It is true that Kampung Rimba Jaya residents have tried for years to stop their eviction through the courts They pursued the case all the way to the Federal Court, which ruled against them on July 31, 2007.
There is nothing of course wrong with legal integrity of the judicial decision. In Malaysia, our land law based on Torren System does not recognize squatters having any land rights derived from “adverse possessionâ€Â. [In UK, the occupier/squatter’s right to adverse possession against original owner arises after effluxion of 12 years]. Also State land belongs to State and the State’s prerogative of how to deal with it is, a matter of law and public policy, absolute. This has been the position of our courts all along – even before the judicial crisis of 1988….
At the same time, legal right is not always enforced immediately as squatters have always been viewed a socio-economic problem. The practice of tolerance or rigid enforcement of legal rights has not been uniformed. I don’t know whether the govt has drawn up guidelines on how to deal with this problem. But I agree that it is not unusual that squatters would, in many instances, be offered temporary accommodations and/or offers to buy low-cost houses, with their down payment paid especially in cases of residential development of land alienated by the state to private developers. In fact, a caring government – if it is caring – can impose this as a precondition for alienation to developers.
This may be done if it is a residential or mixed development – I don’t know about the Kampung Rimba Jaya case – but what if the land on which Kampung Rimba Jaya sits on is planned for industrial or commercial development or (say) public park etc?
Well if one views squatters as socio-economic problem assistance may be rendered by relocating them to some temporary place with compensations for them to buy alternative low cost accommodation elsewhere. Don’t know whether this has been offered to Kampung Rimba Jaya’s residents that has been rejected.
This does not however solve the problem of hindu temple and the surau. Devotees will insist that the deities sit there and will not relocate. What then? By virtue of that alone, is the land going to be forever undeveloped, the government cannot do anything with the land over which it has legal rights even if it is prepared to offer compensations and arrange for relocation?
Can anyone suggest how to resolve this problem?
#17 by sotong on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 9:11 am
This is direct result of decades of unchecked and damaging religious extremism and fundamentalism….politics of religion had done enormous damage to the country.
We must not forget the significant influence Indians had on our history before Islam, irrespective of their numbers.
We have the previous administration to thank for creating this terrible mess doing untold damage to the country with no solution to stop or minimise its destructive impact on a multi racial and religious country.
#18 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 9:34 am
The authorities use emergency laws to evict squatters and temples because squatters use article 11 (Freedom of Religion) enshrined in Constitution to challenge any attempt to demolish their temples and legally the Emergency Ordinance & regulations are exceptions to Article 11 by the Constitution.
This does not solve the socio-economic problem of Malaysia’s urban squattersâ€â€there are half a million or more of them – increasing by the day by influx of also foreign migrants/labor against backdrop of scarcity of land in or near urban centers planned for development.
As I said, even if the gov’t and the persons to whom the gov’t alienates the land treats squatters as socio-economic problem and is prepared to relocate and compensate them (and even build a new place of worship provided it’s not next to sewerage tank as one case reportedly evinced), it wouldn’t solve the problem if squatter devotees say that their temple cannot be relocated and that the deities do not want to relocate even if the devotees are prepared to do so. The temple has sat there for 100 years and will sit there for the next 1000 years. Does this mean the highway, LRT or the hospital, the shopping mall, public park, industrial estate planned to be developed on the prime land on which the temple is situated should forever be stalled for generations and generations by virtue of this reason alone? How does one balance the competing interests of development vs religious tolerance/heritage temples?
#19 by k1980 on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 9:45 am
A RCI should also be set up to investigate the real reason Mahatir appointed AAB as his successor
#20 by mendela on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 10:18 am
Next will be ethnic cleansing?
I guess Malaysia will become a Bosnia very soon, the only diffrence is Muslims will be the enforcers!
#21 by LittleBird on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 11:13 am
Freedom of religion??
If you look at recent conduct of rules of local councils which were gazetted two or three months back, it started with something like a meeting shall be commenced with “doa”. Is is deemed that non muslim will never hold the top post or is it allowed to say prayers and not doa. (See the malay and englaish version)
eq:-LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACT 1976
STANDING ORDERS (MEETING)
(PETALING JAYA CITY COUNCIL) 2007
‘…………………………………
……………………………………………………….
Order of business meeting
10. The business of an ordinary meeting shall be taken in followings
orderâ€â€
(a) Doa;
(b) speech by the Chairman;
(c) briefing if any;
(d) confirmation of minutes of previous meeting;
(e) matters arising;
(f) the confirmation of decisions of committees meeting and the decision
on minute papers of any committee or the Council;
(g) presentation of paper works;
(h) presentation of reports and statements; and
(i) adjournment speech.
I thought the government should start any meeting with Negaraku or Rukunnegara but then I maybe in minority to wish for a secular government.
#22 by Cinapek on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 11:21 am
Zack said:
“YB LKS… you must also mention that the demolition in Kg Rimba does not only involve the temple alone but its also involve the demolition a surau. Therefore this incident is not about “religion†at all. Its about people trespassing into government property.”
On the surface it would seem so and I agree with this statement.
However, if we recall, ample time was given to Datuk Z to vacate his satay restaurant which was also illegally trepassing on government property. Why the comparatively harsher treatment handed out to temples and poor villagers? Why the double standards? And why can they not exercise a little common sense to discuss their planned actions with the MIC or temple committee before taking the final action in view of the extreme sensitivities? It is well and good to hide behind the bit about this demolition being done according to the law but somehow it seems to smack of arrogance and complete disregard for human and religious sensitivities.
#23 by toyolbuster on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 11:27 am
Samy Vellu is a total disgrace to the Indian community. 1st he chastised Kayveas for protesting the arrogance of the mafia mb from mcca, who disregarded the sensitivity of the other races when he was officiating PPP’s assembly. C’mon, you don’t spit in peoples house when you are the invited guest. This is basic courtesy. In malay, it is called kurang ajar. Rastam is a disgrace to the malay community. To call for the sacking of PPP from BN, Samy, what are you trying to prove. This is the lowest form of apple polishing which is unimaginable. In China, such running dogs get chopped up into 1000 pieces.
Then Samy says is ok for UMNO to continue on with their GA through Deepavali. Dei, whats wrong with you. You are an Indian la. We know the UMNO flers are kurang ajar, but to allow them to disregard the most important day of the Indian community, you are the lowest form of dirt.
Now, what are you doing about this despicable act by MBSA gangsters. Don’t tell me you can be lower than the lowest form of worms. SHAME
#24 by k1980 on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 11:28 am
FIFTEEN (15) HINDU TEMPLES DEMOLISHED IN THE KLANG VALLEY
1. The Sri Ayyanar Sathiswary Alayam Temple (more than 65 years) Jalan Davies was demolished on 22.2.2006 and the statues buried at site.
2. The Malaimel Sri Selva Kaliamman Temple Pantai(more than 100 years) was demolished on 17.4.2006 by the Kuala Lumpur City Hall.
3. The Vaalmuniswarar Rajaamman Kovil(more than 60 years) at Lady Templer Hospital demolished on the 3.05.2006 by City Hall Kuala Lumpur.
4. Sri Kaliamman temple at Midlands Estate, Seksyen 7, Shah Alam (more than 100 years) was demolished by the Shah Alam City Hall on 9.5.2006.
5. The Sri Balakrishan Muniswarer temple in Setapak (more than 60 years) was partly demolished on 11.05.2006 by the Kuala Lumpur City Hall.
6. The Sri Balakrishan Muniswarer temple in Setapak was completely demolished and deities broken up on 8.6.2006.
7. The demolished Sri Kaliamman temple at Midlands Estate, Seksyen 7, Shah Alam was demolished for a second time on the 12.06.2006 wherein 3 main Hindu deities were hammered and smashed up to pieces with a sledge hammer by the Shah Alam City Council enforcement officers.
8. On 1.08.2006 the Om Sri Sakti Nagamma Allaya Hindu Temple in Taman Sri Manja, PJS 3/30 Petaling Jaya, Selangor was demolished by the Petaling Jaya City Council.
9. Demolishment of the Sri Subramaniam temple in Country Homes, Rawang, Selangor, Malaysia on 29.09.2006.
10. On 31.10.2006 Sri Muniswarar Temple (more than a 100 years old) which was built on private land in Bandar Rinching, Semenyih Selangor was demolished.
11. The demolishment of the Devi Sri Karumaniamman Hindu Temple, Petaling Jaya Utara, Section 21, Kampung Taman Aman on 30.11.2006.
12. On 29.12.2006 Sri Muniswarar Temple (more than a 100 years old) which was built on private land in Bandar Rinching, Semenyih Selangor was demolished.
13. On 22/2/2007 the Sri Maha Nageswari Hindu Temple in Taman Cahaya 7, Ampang, Selangor Darul Ehsan was demolished.
14. On 15.5.2007, the JKR Sri Muniswarar Hindu Temple, Jalan Kapar, Klang was demolished.
15. On 13.6.2007 the Sri Kaliaman Hindu temple in Midlands estate Shah Alam was demolished.
FOUR (4) OTHER DEMOLISHED HINDU TEMPLES LOCATED OUTSIDE KLANG VALLEY BUT WITHIN PENINSULAR MALAYSIA:-
16. The Demolishment of the Sri Maha Sivalingaeswarrar Hindu Temple, Batu 7,
Gemas Tampin 10/04/2002.
17. The 80 year old Sri Muthumariamman Alayam Hindu Temple in Skudai Johor
Bahru was demolished in August 2006.
18. Statutes from Sungai Wangi Mathurai Veeran Temple (60 years old) in Sitiawan, Kampung Tirali, 9th Mile Jalan Air Tawar, Sungai Wangi Estate, Perak were hammered, smashed up and thrown into a drain and temple demolished on 17.10.2006 by the Manjung District Council.
19. The 55 year old Kaliaman Alayam Hindu Temple in Taman Impiana Mengelembu
in Ipoh was demolished on 27/11/2006.
SIX (6) TEMPLES FORCED TO BE RELOCATED NEXT TO SEWERAGE TANKS:-
71. The Sri Muneeswarar JKR Temple, Batu 5/12, Jalan Kapar, 42100 Klang, Selangor (73 years old) was given notice to be demolished forced to be relocated next to a severage tank (June 2006). (Hindraf)
72. Sri Kumaravel Hindu Temple in Kampung Medan, Petaling Jaya, Selangor was forcibly relocated next to a sewarage tank, electric station (TNB) and high voltage cable on 14.07.2006 . (Makkal Osai 15.7.06)
73. Mariaman Hindu Temple in Bukit Beonang, Taman Bukit Melaka forced to relocate next to sewerage tank.(Nanban 25/8/2006)
74. Sri Raja Rajeswarar Hindu Temple in Taman Tunku Jaafar, Senawang, Seremban. (Hindraf)
75. Mariaman and Perumal Hindu Temple in Puchong Perdana, Selangor. (DAP sources)
76. Mariaman Temple in Desa Mewah, Sunway Semenyih forcibly relocated next to a septic tank. (Bandar Rincing, Semenyih Temple Chairman)
THREE (3) HINDU TEMPLES WHERE DEITIES FORCIBLY REMOVED:-
77. Statues from 73 year old JKR Sri Muniswarar Temple, Jalan Kapar Klang Temple was forcibly removed and taken away under mysterious circumstances in July 2006.
78. Deities from the Devi Sri Karumariaman Hindu Temple, Petaling Jaya Utara, Section 21, Kampung Taman Aman forcibly removed and left in a construction site.
79. Kaliamman Hindu Temple, Jalan Matin Batu 5 Seremban (more than 28 years) deities and temple bell was removed. (Nanban – 3.9.2006
From 22.2.2006 TO 13.6.2007 (one year and four months), 79 HINDU TEMPLES in MALAYSIA were faced with:
BEING DEMOLISHED,
GIVEN NOTICE TO BE DEMOLISHED
RELOCATED NEXT TO SEWERAGE TANKS,
BURNT TO THE GROUND, or
DEITIES FORCIBLY REMOVED
Over the last 15 years, Hindu temples in Malaysia are being demolished at the rate of ONE temple in every THREE weeks.
Source: http://www.whatalulu.blogspot.com/
#25 by Cinapek on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 11:29 am
YB Kit, you said:
“The Cabinet on Wednesday should issue a directive for a total halt to all temple demolitions in the country………”
When I read this, the first thought that crossed my mind was our dear old PM’s boast “I am in charge….”. This incident clearly shows otherwise because I do not think he would want to jeopardise the Indian votes with the imminent GE.
If even the PM is not “in charge”, would the Cabinet do any better? The “little Napoleons” are taking advantage of the laws to demonstrate their power and also to make broad hints of their racism for the upcoming UMNO elections.
#26 by k1980 on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 11:40 am
Lord ShivAAB the Destroyer?
#27 by ExMalaysian on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 12:11 pm
All the postings made here will come to nought if we do not exercise correctly our power at the ballot box.
It’s not good enough for us to be energised; we must ensure that we pass on the desire for change to everyone we meet who are not privy to the information available on citizens journalism, like LKS blogg.
#28 by izrafeil on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 12:46 pm
TALIBAN MUSNAHKAN PATUNG BUDDHA
KERAJAAN MALAYSIA MUSNAHKAN HINDU TEMPLE
SIMPULKAN…..
#29 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 12:56 pm
The information recited by k1980 are shocking and alarming.
The major problem is that Hindu temples and shrines are vulnerable to demolishment because they are not legal entities and they do not sit on lands owned by themselves or their keepers but on government’s lands, whether or not since alienated to private developers.
And much of reason is historical. In colonial times, ethnic Indians were brought to work in plantations. They were prolific temple builders. Each clan would build a temple or shrine. Usually in plantations or fringes. To keep them happy working in plantations the British imposed no restrictions on the proliferation of these temples.
Upon independence in 1957, the Alliance govt. took over most of these plantation estates, and with them, the temples and shrines erected on them. It is estimated that as high as 90 percent of Hindu temples and shrines now sit on government-owned lands and government reserves.
Many ethnic Indians have since moved from plantations to other housing and residential estate or new township. The only place of worship allowed or allocated in planning/development approvals of these new townships, is generally the mosque.
Hence the Hindus in new townships could meet their religious needs only by regularly going back to the areas where they once lived, to worship in their old temples and shrines.
For so long as the government lands on which these old temples and shrines are located are planed for development, there is, generally, no disruption of status quo or problem of demolishment except in a few cases of overzealous municipal authorities.
But trouble brews once there were development being planned and launched in these areas either still owned by the State or alienated to their favoured developer.
Where Samy’s MIC fails is that they have not, in tandem with this rural plantation drift, secured for their constitutency the government’s commitment to have their existing temples and shrines gazetted legally as places of worship that cannot be demolished or otherwise permit temples and shrines demolished to be substituted by new temples/shrines in other areas. Here it is not only MIC but I doubt MCA could fare better.
The problem is that the government would not allow temples/shrines to be relocated on its other lands, not yet developed. Nor does it generally require new townships to be developed have such temples/shrines. Even if there were such lands (not planned for development) available for such temples/shrines, they are usually so far out in the jungle fringes that devotees relocating in urban centers or urban fringes would find it imporactical and too far to commute there for regular worship.
#30 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 12:58 pm
Correction: “For so long as the government lands on which these old temples and shrines are located are NOT PLANNED for development…”
#31 by Godfather on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 1:17 pm
The Indians – even more marginalised than the Chinese – deserve the predicament that they are in by supporting the clown Semi Value. All the crumbs reserved for the Indians are gobbled up by Semi Value, and yet he is treated like a demi-God.
#32 by dawsheng on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 1:51 pm
Godfather. I agree with you. After the temple got demolished, Samy Vellu came out and said stop or else risk the Indian votes. Is this a threat towards UMNO or it just showed Samy can’t do anything but issuing empty threats everytime temple was demolished? Is Samy truly a respectable Indian leader and MIC is capable of protecting Indian’s right in Malaysia, the answer is clear. And if the Indians still supports MIC, that’s probably they are christian or muslim.
#33 by Jonny on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 2:09 pm
I say … we raise the YELLOW WAVE of change.
#34 by Libra2 on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 2:13 pm
Over the last 15 years, Hindu temples in Malaysia are being demolished at the rate of ONE temple in every THREE weeks.
======
But I don’t see the Indians being outraged by these actions since they continue to vote for BN in every GE and By elections and for Samy Vellu to boot.
It would seem the Indians do not take this demolition of temples as a serious problem.
#35 by Traveller on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 2:33 pm
Many years ago, I happened to watch a Hindu priest walking down a road. As he was passing by a Catholic church, the Hindu man stopped, then faced the Catholic church and with his hands together in a praying manner, he bowed (as if to pay homage) and then continued on his way. That image has etched into my mind and told me that religion is also about respecting the beliefs of others as this Hindu man has done. So, it bothered me a lot to see an image of the city council workers throwing stones at the Hindu temple and then bulldozed the place with impunity.
The belief that one religion has superiority over others and that your actions are spiritually protected, or sanctioned by your religion, when attacking people of other faiths has led to many sufferings in human history. That belief has caused me to question whether there is really a God that wants us to kill, destroy, or hurt others in His name, or whether that is just a man-made notion.
It is really sad to see old temples and shrines being destroyed because they are also destroying the priceless cultural and architectural history of the country.
The govt tries to be legalistic about land ownership to justify their actions but the harshness and hastiness in carrying out the demolition betrayed their contempt for the Indian community.
#36 by shaolin on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 3:00 pm
Stop all the rotten Malay rules in this country! Get Uncle
Harry Lee Kuan Yew to take over and rule this country.
Surely all of us have very little to utter our dissatisfaction
versus the situation now!! Because of what?? Simply
because All the Idiots and the Rotten Eggs are ruling this
country and mismanage it!!
I suggest to get US to rule this country if Uncle Harry
refuses to take that responsibilities!! I am certain
everyone WILL be HAPPY to be ruled by US!!
If you agree put up your 2 hands to support and
Cheers to everyone!!
#37 by limkamput on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 3:28 pm
Today it is Hindu temples; tomorrow it may be churches. I think many are aware of “shop-house†churches that exist purely based on the “grace†of local authorities. Because they are in shop-houses and the infringement is not utterly obviously, it is not a major issue yet. But I guess it will some day. You see, again it is related to our fundamental policies being not right. Why is it so difficult for worshippers to get a bona file temples and churches set up? I am sure if the government has been fair in allocating lands and giving approval for places of worship, we would not have so many “illegal†ones around.
#38 by oedipus on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 4:48 pm
thus we all know that shaolin is an idiot.
the malays will rule Malaysia by sheer majority (via a term called democracy, or what is left of it). what eludes this land is accountability, something unheard of in this land for the past 30 years.
#39 by bystander on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 5:00 pm
Ketuanan Umno or is it Melayu showing its ugly power disregarding all logical reasoning and sensitivity. SV is not a figure head not prop but exists only to gorek and gorek and gorek. He doesnot care for the indian community.
#40 by boh-liao on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 5:10 pm
Village chief Mohd Yassin Hashim and his fellow villagers, whose houses were torn down by the Shah Alam City Hall (MBSA) enforcement authorities, should go to Klang with their Barisan Nasional flags to meet Emperor Zakaria, a compassionate man, and to seek his permission to stay in his palace.
#41 by k1980 on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 6:10 pm
Emperor Zakaria, a most compassionate man, gives permission to anyone who wishes to stay in his palace, on condition room rates of RM500 pax per night is paid upfront. Alternative accommodation is free on the railway tracks of his former railway station
#42 by disapointed86 on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 6:44 pm
sami velu..u’re nothing to the government..stop being a slave for the government…even the indian community hate you..i’ll wait and see if you were to be shown the door in the coming GE..i’m just wondering why the indian are voting for him for so many years? he is just a faggot..and i believe most of his vote coming from the indian as to take care of their well being? and yet indian temple get demolished each day? come on everyone..vote wisely!!…
#43 by Radiohead on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 6:48 pm
Indians have lost their confidence on MIC – come this election, Samy will know that he is not wanted anymore
#44 by naked taliban on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 6:53 pm
Is there any temple demolition in Kelantan state ?.Why many in Bolehland feared PAS policies ? .BN Gomen good , so keep voting !!
#45 by cancan on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 7:14 pm
In front of you these Umnoputra idiots will say all the good things while at your back they do all the bad.
How can we trust them?
We Malaysians, can live peacefully.It is the Umnoputras,I repeat the Umnoputras that are dividing the people.
Don’t believe?
The UMNO assembly is coming.See and analyze the comments of the delegates.
#46 by the archer on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 7:33 pm
Godfather Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 13: 17.53
The Indians – even more marginalised than the Chinese – deserve the predicament that they are in by supporting the clown Semi Value. All the crumbs reserved for the Indians are gobbled up by Semi Value, and yet he is treated like a demi-God.
===============================================
o wise one (pun intended) aka godfather
just as the chinese deserve the predicament they are in for voting in (hence supporting)ong kata nothing. you eat your whole loaf of bread man instead of crumbs if you think you have one!!! you make such sweeping statements about the indians treating samy vellu as a demi god. first of all do you know how the mic is structured? just as mahathir restructured the manner in which the president of umno is chosen, to ensure that it would benext to impossible to unseat him as president of umo even if the majority of the malays didnt want him, so too with samy vellu. the process of nominating and selecting the president of mic is so tailored (by samy and his bunch) that even if the entire indian population didnt want him, he would still be president as long as he could “kao tim” the division heads(in exactly the same way as the umno president could with his party) and the division heads are appointed by him either directly or indirectly! that is why even abdullah badawi will not be ousted as president of umno (mahathir amended the selection procedure after he almost lost it when he was seriously challenged…after that he was confortable)even if the entire malay population or the entire population for that matter didnt want him..barring riots and interference from the agong or rulers in unison. so you see my wise friend….dont assume you know the sentiments of all communites in malaysia…and worse dont belittle their intelligence…you pray to samy vellu if you want…cause the majority of the indians dont!
==========================================
#47 by the archer on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 7:38 pm
now taking it to the bigger picture of the nation, the election process and the electorates are so structured (actually re-structured) that it would be impossible ….i repeat..impossible…for the ruling coalition to lose..even if more than 1/2 the population voted against them…and that my friend is the fact.
so dont go shooting off in an italian mafia style manner just because you call ureself the godfather …..
#48 by the archer on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 7:42 pm
dawsheng Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 13: 51.42
dawsheng Says:
Godfather. I agree with you. After the temple got demolished, Samy Vellu came out and said stop or else risk the Indian votes. Is this a threat towards UMNO or it just showed Samy can’t do anything but issuing empty threats everytime temple was demolished? Is Samy truly a respectable Indian leader and MIC is capable of protecting Indian’s right in Malaysia, the answer is clear. And if the Indians still supports MIC, that’s probably they are christian or muslim.
==============================================
if the chinese still support ong kata nothing…then they may be they are buddhists, or taoists or some..-ist? or could they also be christians and chinese converts ?
my comments to godfather(who you agreed with in this case) are also directed to you my friend..
#49 by k1980 on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 7:44 pm
For the onformation of those non-bumis planning to vote for BN, the NEP will still be around after 2057
http://the-malaysian.blogspot.com/2007/11/malays-must-be-confident-after-50-years.html
the Malay ‘intelligentsia’ are touting some ‘2057 Malay Seminar’ to prolong Malay ‘supremacy’ (read prolong the NEP). Meanwhile the ‘Towering’ Malay and ‘Glocal’ Malay concepts apparently have been consigned to the grave.
#50 by the archer on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 7:45 pm
Libra2 Says:
November 4th, 2007 at 14: 13.34
Over the last 15 years, Hindu temples in Malaysia are being demolished at the rate of ONE temple in every THREE weeks.
======
But I don’t see the Indians being outraged by these actions since they continue to vote for BN in every GE and By elections and for Samy Vellu to boot.
It would seem the Indians do not take this demolition of temples as a serious problem
================================================
simplistic stupidity at it’s peak…i’ve nothing else to say!!!! with a lot of ignorance to boot!!! not going to waste my time enlightening you…
#51 by k1980 on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 7:54 pm
Build the ‘half-bridge and save RM200 million!
http://malaysia-today.net/blog2006/holds.php?itemid=8828
the ‘half-bridge’, was supposed to cost RM2.379 billion. This bridge, however, has been aborted but we still have to pay RM2.579 billion, RM200 million more.
#52 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 9:10 pm
“…to draw up national guidelines for all future demolitions to ensure they do not trample on religious and cultural sensitivities.” KIT
Kit, with all due respect how could anyone “demolish” places of worship without at the same “trampleng on religious and cultural sensitivities”?
There is no textbook solution to this problem and no easy way out – if there is one. But let’s push the envelope a bit. Why should it be a problem? Because a place of worship is sitting in the way of economic development? How could that be? It is an illegal structure set up many years earlier and has worshippers numbering in the thousands, and just as many years later a developer came by and thought he could develop this land and turn it into a residential estate? Or the government needs to build a road through it and finds this place of worship standing in its way, and there is no other way it could build a road through it? The solution lies in the problem.
The developer who recently purchased the land and wants to develop the land into a residential estate, for example, could still have his ‘pot of gold’. If we need to tell him “how” then perhaps he should choose another occupation and not be a developer. As for the government, Parliament has given it powers to acquire land and to compensate the landowners for a reason – and the reason is not to play God.
#53 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 9:44 pm
The BN run government knows that ‘forced temple demolition’ is a treasure trove of votes for the political opposition. Yet it has the audacity to continue with their policy of forced demolition.
Once I was approached by an “illegal settler or a squatter” for want of a better term to be their spokesman against a private developer which just concluded its negotiation for the land from the state government – and guess who have shares in the company?
I will not use the word “squatters” to describe people who have built their homes, raise their kids, tend the family’s vegetable plots to live off the land and build roads and community halls and places of worship. I don’t care what the law calls them. They are working class families struggling to make a living for themselves, support their children – with needs like everyone else. They may have carved a life out of living on somebody else’s land and know the consequences, but whose fault was it to allow them to do so in the first place?
The same considerations apply to the removal of “illegal settlers” as to the “forced demolition of places of worship” – except that the latter is more emotional and touches on the constitutional issue of freedom of worship.
#54 by hkh on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 9:47 pm
The way that I look at this escalation of total disregard of people’s feelings, is that the people of IJOK and Macap are to be blamed. They did not send out a clear message but instead sold themselves when they had the chance. When you breed and spoil a monster, this is what happen.
It is a blessing in disguise that this monster misbehaved so early.
So, people, wake up!!!!!
#55 by oknyua on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 10:25 pm
YB LIm KS, may I inform you that the demolition of churches in the Orang Asli settlement have been going on for … well I don’t know how many years now.
No, I am not complaining but just to make you aware. Details are with our SIB National Secretary. The respond we give: we fast each year for Malaysia, prayed for the leaders to uphold righteousness, pray for the judiciary, pray against corruption. We don’t know what other options we could take.
Thank you.
#56 by sheriff singh on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 10:34 pm
I remember that in 2005 or 2006, it was declared by the Toyo MB that the “developed state” Selangor DE has no more squatters, that they have all been housed in flats, low cost housing and the like. Why then did we have all these unfortunates who have no where else to go?
The whole demolition is one that lacks sensitivity. We have “infidels” if we can called them that, handling and destroying religious statues and images of another religion. This is absolutely a no-no.
The Hindus there have already said they were willing to relocate. All they needed was some extra time to do whatever that was necessary according to their religion, before they relocate. Why the sudden urgency to destroy their temple is puzzling.
Who is the developer and why has he got so much power and influence to bring such devastation using so much equipment and government personnel? Why is he in a hurry to make his millions?
On an off topic matter but nevertheless a current issue, I am told that many stalls in various parts of the Klang Valley have already increased the prices of their noodles from RM 3.50 to RM 3.80 (8.6%) or RM 4.00 (14.3%) due to the rise in the price of flour. And there have been rises in other basic food items as well. Looks like there will be pressure for increased wages now with the bank staff asking for a rise of 30%.
Soon, the price of petrol and diesel will have to go up. No way it can be avoided. Wonder how Noh Mohammed used the RM 4.5 billion or more that the government collected from the reduced government subsidies at the last increase, for the people’s benefit? Was it used as a “soft loan” to the Port Klang Free Zone (PKFZ)?
#57 by dawsheng on Sunday, 4 November 2007 - 10:38 pm
“now taking it to the bigger picture of the nation, the election process and the electorates are so structured (actually re-structured) that it would be impossible ….i repeat..impossible…for the ruling coalition to lose..even if more than 1/2 the population voted against them…and that my friend is the fact.” the archer
Let me assure you that if more than half of the population voted for the opposition, the impossible will become possible. I suggest we wait and see.
#58 by sean on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 12:00 am
Our country are indeed heading towards Islamisation Umno style.Just go through today’s NST’s and a small column that wrote about Sarawak…..”Alchohol free zone”…not that i love alchohol that much but it’s just that there are forces that are experimenting with laws design for muslim majority areas to be alchohol free etc etc.This could be one of the many steps taken by the admistration to slowly change the way the country are govern.Beware the wolf in the sheep skin.
#59 by AhPek on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 1:01 am
‘Let me assure you that if more than half the population voted for opposition, the impossible will become possible.’. dawsheng.
I am afraid you’re wrong.Look at last election figure.BN got 64% 0f popular votes but in terms of parlimentary seats these votes fetch 91%.In other words they have 199seats out of 219 seats.The remaining 20 seats go to opposition and these came from 36% of popular votes.To form a government with a simple majority you need to have 110 seats.Now tell me from simple arithmetic how would that come to in terms of popular votes for the opposition!! Some ridiculous high figure (certainly far more than 50% popular votes).
Why is that arithmetic got to be this ridiculous?? That’s because of that mamak who gerrymandered during his 22 years to make it impossible for party other than UMNO to win!!
#60 by AhPek on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 1:27 am
And that is what the gathering at Dataran Merdeka is all about—to march to Agong with a petition to reform the electoral system so that contestants vying for parlimentary seats or state seats can compete from a level playing field.
Malaysia’s system is what we call first-past-the-post system.Even in such a system without gerrymandering the winner may not be what the majority voters want for winner is only a person with the most number of votes.A fairer represention would come from a system from New Zealand MMP ie Mixed Member Proportional System.Wikipedia will give a pretty good idea how this system works.
#61 by negarawan on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 3:06 am
This unconstitutional and illegal demolition of a Hindu temple, unjustified restrictions placed on non-muslim places of worship,the belittlement and marginalization of non-bumi races, is a stark reminder of the racist supremacy policies of Hitler. Very soon we have to wear badges with the words “Hindu”, “Christian”, “Buddhist”, “Taoist” on our shirts in public? Will there be extermination camps too?
If anyone has videos of this temple demolition and others, please post it on Youtube for the whole world to see and realize that the current corrupt government of Malaysia needs to be subject of international pressure.
#62 by the archer on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 3:14 am
dawsheng ays:
Let me assure you that if more than half of the population voted for the opposition, the impossible will become possible. I suggest we wait and see.
=================================================
while i hope that that kind of result would translate accordingly into the corresponding desired end state whether for the ruling coalition or the opposition, in the true spirit of democracy and fairness, unfortunately the delineation of electorates exercise that was undertaken,doesnt support this causal effect outcome. the percentages of population who reside in the electorates according to this delineation are such that percentages of population voting for either side (whether bn or the opposition) do not translate into corresponding number of seats in parliament. it would however be possible to reduce the number of seats to the government but equally difficult to deny them the 2/3rd majority.while bersih’s drive is all so laudable and i too support that, perhaps it would be more urgent to look at how overall voting system and what formula should be used to tanslate the results to be representative of the peoples choice. our system ensures that the current govt remains entrenched in power for a long long time to come…unless that system is revisited and reworked.
but having said that, i dont want to pour cold water on your assurance ..i’ll wait and see together with you.
for the love of our nation and all it’s commnities
#63 by malaysiatoday.com on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 4:55 am
Shah Alam City Council (SACC) is employed gangsters or mat rempit as their enforcement staff?
I really do not know there is any other enforcement agency in the world is using stone, stick, parang, etc. as their self-defense gear. SACC enforcement member shall only be equipped with a wooden baton, other weapons used by them are deemed illegal.
The temple committee already agreed to move out after Depavali, why Mohd. Khir cannot wait for another few days?
Why no land allocation in new housing estate for Hindu or Buddhist temples? Ong Ka Ting must explain this lopsided policy to non-Muslims.
#64 by undergrad2 on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 5:35 am
Sticks and stones may break my bones but come government gangsters and I’ll kick their asses.
#65 by sotong on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 7:13 am
Timing of demolition close to Deepavali…why?
#66 by sotong on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 7:22 am
What is the number of people per mosque, temple, church and etc?
Are there sufficient place of worship for all religions?
#67 by k1980 on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 8:58 am
More money to send second space tourist to ISS
http://www.malaysia-today.net/nuc2006/beritacom.php?itemid=35
Harga minyak dijangka akan naik RM0.70 sen seliter selepas pilihan raya nanti… harga minyak akan naik berdasarkan penegasan Perdana Menteri bahawa harga minyak tetap naik kerana ia tidak boleh dielakkan, dalam satu mesyuarat yang dihadirinya.
#68 by Traveller on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 9:19 am
malaysiatoday.com: “Why no land allocation in new housing estate for Hindu or Buddhist temples? Ong Ka Ting must explain this lopsided policy to non-Muslims.”
______
Ong Ka Ting is another useless leader. He has been telling the Chinese to have “ke ku nai lao” (bear the hardships and work hard) attitude. To him, it is OK for Chinese to suffer a bit and not complain. The Chinese has been suffering since Merdeka and he still wants us to continue suffering as an underdog instead of being equal. With attitude like that, Chinese people in Malaysia will never complete the journey that our forefathers started from China. We will always be kicked around even when we are born in this country. I also don’t understand his Lifelong Learning thing. Have all Chinese prospered to the extent that we have the luxury to sit around in intellectual discourse about nothing?
Next time if you see a Chinese temple or Catholic church demolished, you can forget about asking OK Ting. He will tell you to have “ke ku nai lao” attitude and bear the pain.
#69 by Libra2 on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 9:46 am
The time has already come whereby UMNO does not need the Chinese and Indian votes. Thanks to the Election Commission and illegal immigrants with My Kads.
Ali Rustan made it very clear at the PPP state convention.
Again that Muhamad with two Mohamads in his name has said UMNO will not lose if the Chinese fee to the Opposition. UMNO won’t be hurt he said. The losers will be Gerakan and MCA.
There you are. Chinese and Indians can go to hell, according to UMNO.
#70 by pamelaoda on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 10:52 am
Idiots! these ppl can karaoke every bloody morning and wakes the whole world up and yet then crybaby overNamewee’s Negarakuku and now, they themselves turned into a syaitan when come to other religions!
Why hypo why?
#71 by sotong on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 11:33 am
In a real democracy, majority has a huge responsibility towards the well being of the minorities.
#72 by boh-liao on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 11:38 am
theStar, 5 Nov 2007: Zainuddin said there was one case that raised “doubts over the media’s purpose†was the recent reporting of Port Klang assemblymen Datuk Zakaria Mat Deros’ new mansion although he had been cleared of corruption.
“The case is already over. He took orphans to his new house but what was highlighted was how big the house is,†he said.
– According to Zam and, of course naturally, the Umno elites, Emperor Zakaria did not do anything wrong and is a kind soul. Bless him.
#73 by tidaknama on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 12:28 pm
“negarawan Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 03: 06.21
This unconstitutional and illegal demolition of a Hindu temple, unjustified restrictions placed on non-muslim places of worship,the belittlement and marginalization of non-bumi races, is a stark reminder of the racist supremacy policies of Hitler. Very soon we have to wear badges with the words “Hinduâ€Â, “Christianâ€Â, “Buddhistâ€Â, “Taoist†on our shirts in public? Will there be extermination camps too?”
Too late lar…it is already on your IC
#74 by Jimm on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 12:59 pm
Religion issues have been of some concerned all these while in this country. Mostly wasn’t highlighted in national media or allow to be ‘discuss’.
After all, Malaysian are famous for short memory.
#75 by Godfather on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 1:03 pm
Archer:
I don’t disagree with what you say about the inevitability of BN winning the next elections. The question, as you put it, is by what margin. I think we can make a serious dent in the majority – and all we are hoping for is to deny the thieves the two-thirds majority. This will trigger a reform within UMNO – and hopefully a new bunch of more compassionate and truly humble leaders will emerge who will put the rakyat’s interest ahead of theirs. This thread is about the plight of the Indians – and my comment on how Semi Value keeps getting himself voted in year after year. The other races have alternatives – the Indians have none. The intimidatory tactics employed by Semi’s boys, the lack of education amongst the general Indian population, the lack of alternative leadership – all these meant that grassroot Indian support for BN can be dispensed with.
#76 by malaysiatoday.com on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 2:44 pm
With the present unfair constituency setup, non-Malays population size has to at least two times larger than today to topple UMNO dominance in politics.
Why UMNO has to care about non-Malay feelings?
I worry that in one day Indian people are pushed to the corner and have to follow Tamil Tiger in Sri Lanka by using arms to claim back their basic rights as a human being.
I was stationed in Sri Lanka in late 90s and found many similarities between Sri Lanka and Malaysia. Sinhalese majority is doing exactly what the Malay is doing here, race discrimination against the minority.
#77 by k1980 on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 2:45 pm
The reason was the PM forgot to put a zero after the ‘2’
http://www.malaysia-today.net/nuc2006/letter.php?itemid=54
BN Government Should Not Mislead The Public That The Consumer Price Index (CPI) From January To September 2007 Has Risen By Only 2% When In Reality It Has Risen By 20%!
#78 by AhPek on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 2:56 pm
Godfather, I would like to share your optimism but figures from the last election do not support such optimism although we know very well that most urbanites are thoroughly fed up with all the monkeying done by the present ruling party.
Now from the last result 20 parlimentary seats were obtained by opposition thro achieving 36% (BN obtained 64%) popular votes.If we hope the BN would lose two thirds majority then opposition must win 74 parlimentary seats.Using the above results that would translate to 133% of popular votes which make it completely impossible and non-sensical.The only recourse is to fight for an electoral reform without which the ordinary Joes can shout ‘Foul’ to the point of bursting their lungs, you can rest assured they will fall on deaf ears.
#79 by Godfather on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 2:59 pm
2% or 20% – what’s the difference ? UMNOputras flying around in helicopters, holiday in Australia, New Zealand, UK, US….what do they care about local inflation ? The care only about the extra zeros in their bank accounts overseas, not the zeros in Bolehland inflation – and the majority still continues to buy the con.
#80 by sotong on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 3:02 pm
What the future Superpower China & India planned to do in our region in particular and the world in general is a real concern.
Hope it is non military, non nuclear and contructive one.
#81 by the archer on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 3:06 pm
godfather says
The other races have alternatives – the Indians have none. The intimidatory tactics employed by Semi’s boys, the lack of education amongst the general Indian population, the lack of alternative leadership – all these meant that grassroot Indian support for BN can be dispensed with.
=================================================!!!
you make so many assumptions that it is so very dangerous the way you think (or don’t think is more like it)read your own posting above and tell me that you are not contradicting yourself!!!!!!!!!
#82 by the archer on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 3:07 pm
I worry that in one day Indian people are pushed to the corner and have to follow Tamil Tiger in Sri Lanka by using arms to claim back their basic rights as a human being.
I was stationed in Sri Lanka in late 90s and found many similarities between Sri Lanka and Malaysia. Sinhalese majority is doing exactly what the Malay is doing here, race discrimination against the minority.
=============================================
i dont think that it’s very far off
#83 by Jimm on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 3:33 pm
They went all the way to claim their Ketuanan in this land whereby others are just immigrants.
They always claimed that others are not as ‘original’ as them to be this land owners.
#84 by Godfather on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 3:55 pm
Archer:
OK, let me put in plain(er) English. When the Chinese are upset, they exercise the only they have currently i.e. vote the DAP. When the Indians are upset, they don’t have a race-based party to vote for, to compare with. What do they do ? Some people think that it could be pushing them into armed rebellion, which I don’t subscribe to because their numbers are simply too small. Furthermore, there is no “external” support, unlike the Tamil Tigers which has tremendous support from Tamil Nadu.
Having a race-based party for Indians might be the only way for them to make a difference. I don’t know if Nallakaruppan could be that person to start a new party, but I know the Indians need an alternative voice to the big shark known as semi Value.
#85 by grace on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 4:16 pm
Just as I blame the Chinese in Penang for simply electing Gerakan or MCA so that a Chinese CM is appointed, I do blame the INdians for BN, just to pay for the follies later.
Sometimes, we are not aware that we, the poor rakyat are being made used of as tools by those BN politicians who are well fed by businessmen. They tell us to vote for BN. When BN wins, they get tips from Businessmen for their favour. Businessmen gets lots of opportunites or lubangs from the YBs!
We? Get Shit!!! Yet we vote for them!!!
Stupid!!!
My vote is DAP always!!!
#86 by ihavesomethingtosay on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 5:19 pm
is anyone taking bets that AAB will stay awake for the amno general meeting?
or
how long can he stay awake?
#87 by AhPek on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 5:49 pm
The Indians are not only the strongest BN supporter (stronger than the Malays and Chinese) they also are the most reliable of BN supporters since DAY 1 !!!
But they curse and rant but at the end of the day it’s always BN.
#88 by malaysiatoday.com on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 5:55 pm
AhPek Says:
November 5th, 2007 at 17: 49.51
The Indians are not only the strongest BN supporter (stronger than the Malays and Chinese) they also are the most reliable of BN supporters since DAY 1 !!!
But they curse and rant but at the end of the day it’s always BN.
===
Probably this is the price of being loyal to racist Malay UMNO.
#89 by pkrisnin on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 7:22 pm
40 years on illegal ground and when near election they decide to tear it down. Call me naive but looks like Badawi has some people within his own party working to against him. I see a power struggle coming for the PM post. I have my theories who actually ordered this and shame on him using a temple to get the people hoping mad and further his goals for the PM post.
#90 by malaysiatoday.com on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 8:13 pm
A friend of mine who is quite closed to Khairy did tell me that Badawi is gang up with Anwar politically. Anyway, everything is possible in politics.
If you are old enough and can recall incident in 1987, Najib is the number one racist in UMNO.
#91 by ZePenguin on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 8:22 pm
Demolishment of temples while Deepavali is just around the corner… How nice!!
Seriously, this current government has started to show off their “Ketuanan Melayu” by going around and destroying temples and all that. What they are trying to gain by this?
As an Indian, I gotta agree that Indians too, have their negative side where as they love to build temples nearly each and every corner where there are some visible numbers of Indians living together. But, that doesn’t mean when the time comes for these temples to be re-allocated, the government has to forcibly destroy these temples. Why can’t they give some time for all the deities and necessary stuffs to be taken out? Why they need all the sudden rush to destroy these temples?
Retards!
#92 by mwt on Monday, 5 November 2007 - 8:33 pm
The 4 lawyers who were arrested and released have filed an RM85 Million suit against the Government & Police. More details at:
http://powerpresent.blogspot.com/2007/11/rm85-million-suit-by-4-lawyers-for.html
& also More wastage of Public Funds.
1 Government considering buying Soyuz Spacecraft for display; Oct 10 declared Space Day
2. Retreat to posh Palace of Golden Horses for DBKL, Transport & Works Officials just for meeting to discuss Plan To Impose KL Toll. What happened to all the posh meeting rooms at the ministries and at DBKL? Or is it end of year X’mas Spending to finish off excess over allocation?
#93 by uyatnej on Tuesday, 6 November 2007 - 5:03 pm
Aiyoo, why only scold Samy taktaumalu,
Kayveas also Indian ma, where is he?
And how about Gerakan Indian members, muti racial party ma,
Why Koh Tsu Khoon keep his mouth shut, wanna discuss close door some more ah?
And where are all the Keadilan Indian members? Still waiting for Anuar to be free ah!
And why every time only DAP voice up and fight for the right of Chinese and Indians, and yet why Chinese and Indians still don’t want to give DAP a chance in every GE!
Come on lah brotherrr!
Vote wisely, vote for change, vote for DAP and fight for our right.
#94 by motai on Saturday, 10 November 2007 - 10:19 am
“When people refuse to obey, then democracy comes alive.”
Howard Zinn
“You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists”.
Abbie Hoffman
#95 by watergun on Saturday, 10 November 2007 - 2:05 pm
today i am very down because the inforcement wrong use their power to stop the supporter of BERSIH by setted up all lot of check point and make the jam of car by bumper to bumper!! juz let our citizen to voice up their opinio and let the malaysian judge it is’t true or wrong..BN we are educated pls show ur democracy…pls bear in mind…behaviour your ownself…i shame ur slogan…..MALASYSIA BOLEH….ANGKASAWAN tumpang and pround ur ownself….the wotld are laught u….MALAYSIA.
#96 by poorcina on Saturday, 10 November 2007 - 4:19 pm
” have anyone ever heard of authority demolishing mosque?”
#97 by motai on Sunday, 11 November 2007 - 10:08 am
Professor Robert O. Paxton has written that:
Fascism may be defined as a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victim-hood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.”[11]
Paxton further defines fascism’s essence as:
…a sense of overwhelming crisis beyond reach of traditional solutions; 2. belief one’s group is the victim, justifying any action without legal or moral limits; 3. need for authority by a natural leader above the law, relying on the superiority of his instincts; 4. right of the chosen people to dominate others without legal or moral restraint; 5. fear of foreign `contamination.”[12]
Stanley Payne’s Fascism: Comparison and Definition (1980) uses a lengthy itemized list of characteristics to identify fascism, including the creation of an authoritarian state; a regulated, state-integrated economic sector; fascist symbolism; anti-liberalism; anti-communism; anti-conservatism.[13] He argues that common aim of all fascist movements was elimination of the autonomy or, in same cases, the existence of large-scale capitalism.[14] Semiotician Umberto Eco attempts to identify the characteristics of proto-fascism as the cult of tradition, rejection of modernism, cult of action for action’s sake, life is lived for struggle, fear of difference, rejection of disagreement, contempt for the weak, cult of masculinity and machismo, qualitative populism, appeal to a frustrated majority, obsession with a plot, illicitly wealthy enemies, education to become a hero, and speaking Newspeak, in his popular essay Eternal Fascism: Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt.[15] More recently, an emphasis has been placed upon the aspect of populist fascist rhetoric that argues for a “re-birth” of a conflated nation and ethnic people.[16]
Most scholars hold that fascism as a social movement employs elements from the political left, but many conclude that fascism eventually allies with the political right, especially after attaining state power. For example, Nazism began as a socio-political movement that promoted a radical form of National Socialism, but altered its character once Adolf Hitler was handed state power in Germany. Economists like Ludwig Von Mises argue that fascism is a form of socialist dictatorship similar to that of the Soviet Union.[17]
#98 by ktteokt on Friday, 16 November 2007 - 9:12 am
Littlebird 4th Nov – Forget about the Rukunegara. This has been a white elephant since its conception in the early seventies. Ask the ministers and those in the government which one of them can remember what was written in it? And just for the sake of writing only. Its contents were never realized since its existence. Just ask yourself what have THEY done on these few words excerpted from the Rukunegara …”membina masyarakat yang adil”. How can our masyarakat be adil when there are special rights conferred to certain groups? Are we not part of masyarakat or are they not??