by T GOPAL
Kota Damansara
I just surfed the web and found three different news related to purchasing of Sukhoi fighter jet from Russia by Vietnamese, Indian and Malaysian governments. Go through the news and I will tell you why I smell something fishy here.
(1) India to buy 40 Sukhoi fighter jets from Russia in $1.6 billion deal
8 February 2007
Mumbai: The government is all set to sign a $1.6 billion deal with Russia for acquiring 40 Sukhoi-30 MKI fighters. The contract will be signed before the current financial year ends and the air superiority fighters would join the Indian Air Force’s combat fleet “in about three years”, Air Chief SP Tyagi, told reporters at the Yelahanka Air Force Base on the sidelines of Aero India 2007.
(2) 02 December 2003
Vietnam Orders More Fighters
The Moscow TimesVietnam on Monday agreed to buy four Sukhoi fighter jets for $100 million, a deal that adds fresh impetus to President Vladimir Putin’s drive to increase arms sales to Southeast Asia.
The deal, which follows sales earlier this year to Indonesia and Malaysia, means Southeast Asia this year may surpass China as Russia’s top arms market, defense industry experts said.
Vietnam signed a protocol agreement with state arms export agency Rosoboronexport to buy four Su-30MKKs, according to a source within Aviation Holding Co. Sukhoi. The fighters are made by the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Production Association.
(3) Malaysia to receive six fighter jets from Russia
Malaysia’s air force said Friday it expects to receive six Russian Sukhoi-30MK fighter jets in May – the first batch of 18 jets it purchased in 2003.
“It is anticipated that the first batch of Sukhoi-30MKs will be officially handed over to the Malaysian government in April 2007 in Russia, with the physical arrival in the country beginning May,” the Royal Malaysian Air Force said in a statement.
The arrival of the jets – bought in a deal worth US$900 million (EUR 750 million) – is “neither premature nor delayed,” it said, denying a local news report that the delivery had been pushed back by a year
Now let me summarise the key facts :
Now, do you see the picture? Vietnam bought the jets for US$25million each, the so called corrupted India bought for US$40million each but our government must be corrupted to hell to purchase the fighter jets for US$50million each. That is US$10 million more compared to India, so times 18, you get US$180 million or about RM600 million entering someone’s pocket. But if you compare with price paid by the Vietnamese government, it would be a cool RM1.8 billion. I wonder who’s pocket is that.
#1 by bolehlandor on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 9:47 am
Man………… this is really ridiculous to the core!! MY has been touted as bolehland and it is now proving itself again & again how absolutely CORRUPT its officials are. aab is but a #&^# nincompoop. He is the true pro-corruption force that is milking the nation dry along with his coterie of scoundrels.
MM was bad but he seemed to be an angel in comparison. Is there divine justice for bolehland?
#2 by kelangman88 on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 9:53 am
Sukhoi-30 MKI – India,
Su-30MKK – Vietnam,
Sukhoi-30MK – Malaysia.
Maybe less letter more expensive leh :P
#3 by kelangman88 on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 9:55 am
Or maybe, they buying 1+4 years warranty leh :D
#4 by kelangman88 on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 9:57 am
Su-30MK
The commercial version of Su-30M first revealed in 1993.
Su-30MKI
Export version for India with TVC, canards.
Su-30MKK
Export version for China.
#5 by kelangman88 on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 10:00 am
Sukhoi Su-30 MKI is a variant of the Sukhoi Su-30, jointly-developed by Russia’s Sukhoi Corporation and India’s Hindustan Aeronautics Limited for the Indian Air Force. It is a heavy class, long-range, multi-role, air superiority fighter and strike fighter. The variant also consists of French, Israeli and Indian subsystems. The MKI variant is a much more advanced fighter jet than the basic K and MK variants and is considered a 4.5 generation aircraft. Due to similar features and components, the MKI variant is often considered to be an export version of the Sukhoi Su-35.
Ooo…. MKI is better than MK. Mmm…
#6 by kelangman88 on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 10:01 am
Though a variant of Su-30, the Su-30 MKI is significantly more advanced than the basic Su-30 or the Chinese Su-30 MKK aircraft. Its avionics, aerodynamic features and components are similar to the Su-35. This variant has significant upgrades on it from the basic Su-30 MK version. The aircraft was jointly designed by Russia’s Sukhoi and India’s HAL.
#7 by kelangman88 on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 10:05 am
Su-30MKM
Highly specialised version for Malaysia is similar to the MKI, but will principally be equipped with French and Russian avionics. It will feature head-up and multifunction displays from the Thales Group and Sagem of France, as well as the Russian BARS NIIP N011M radar.
Seems like our price should be on par with India one leh.
#8 by kelangman88 on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 10:08 am
Maybe our price is more expensive because we’re not knowledgeable to develop our own avionics. And thus using the European one:
Thales has reinforced its position in the Asian aerospace market by winning a 120 million euro contract to provide the avionics for 18 Sukhoi 30 MKM aircraft ordered by the Malaysian government. This contract strengthens Thales links with its Malaysian industrial partners.
The Malaysian Air Force will oversee the integration of the aircraft in Russia, which will be carried out in partnership between Sukhoi and Thales. The aircraft will be based in Malaysia by 2007-2008. Equipped with modern European avionics, these aircraft will enhance Malaysia’s already substantial combat aircraft fleet.
#9 by silhouette on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 10:16 am
Do a comparison on the purchase price of the submarines so that we can see the trend. I bet you we always pay the highest but not necessarily for the best. Otherwise there will never be a necessity for The Altantuya murder.
#10 by kelangman88 on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 10:18 am
China and Russia began negotiations for the purchase of the Su-30MK multirole fighter in 1996. The initial deal of 38 aircraft valued at about US$2 billion was agreed upon in August 1999.
India 1,600,000,000 (40) 40,000,000
Vietnam 100,000,000 (4) 25,000,000
Malaysia 900,000,000 (18) 50,000,000
China 2,000,000,000 (38) 52,000,000
Crap, China is more corrupt?
#11 by madmix on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 10:20 am
Possible answer from Najib:
1. Vietnam was long time client and ally of USSR during vietnam war, so get special deal.
2. Malaysia jets got special avionics etc etc. also comes with extra stocks of spare parts and extra armaments, extra air to air and air to ground missiles.
3. malaysia got long term maintenance contract and aslo get to send Bolehnauts to space.
#12 by toyolbuster on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 10:21 am
But you guys must understand. The Malaysian version comes equipped with C4 and Mongolian Stewardesses supplied on board.
#13 by kelangman88 on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 10:24 am
All the above material is grab from Wiki. But problem is, when I search the net, the China MKK is actually 35,000,0000 a piece. So don’t trust Wiki so much :P
#14 by youngman79 on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 10:32 am
hmm, maybe they got AP to buy fighter jets also. :p
#15 by yyh on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 10:56 am
reported that pilots will be sent to India for training and not russia. dont know whether the original cost include training package?
if you evaluate the submarine deal extensively, you will arrive at the same conclusion which is overpaying.
by the way, i remember reading an article in the mainstream papers not too long ago. commission payment is ok as long as it comes from the supplier. and that from the officials in Malaysia. Thats what they call now above table sweetheart deals. Can you beat that?
#16 by kurakura on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 11:04 am
What if our version of Sukhoi dogfight with Singapore’s F16?Who will win one on one combat?
#17 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 11:06 am
Brief comparison of prices like that, without account of variants and other factors, does not by itself prove “fishiness”.
#18 by smeagroo on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 11:26 am
The assessment of the whole deal is wrong. The RM50mil/ jet is correct bcos we hv added some cool gadgets in there. In the jet we have 1 bath with hot shower. A wine bar for the pilot to use when he is not engaged in any air assault. Dont forget the plush leather seat. If the PM can hv such luxuries just by leading the country, what more for these men who are risking their lives for the nation.
#19 by HJ Angus on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 11:38 am
I like the heading as we read of so many planes ending up with the fishes!
And very little reported after that of what was the actual cause.
The reference to APs for planes is very interesting.
No doubt so one will be paid for special services for the life of the contract.
#20 by moong cha cha II on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 2:01 pm
maybe our version can gostan one
#21 by moong cha cha II on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 2:06 pm
i remember once Malaysia bought 30 or maybe 40 second-hand Sky Hawks from the US.
What happened ?
#22 by WFH on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 2:07 pm
Price per jet sure more expensive lah, because the Russian quality better for guaranteed, never-fail, power windows.
Also cockpit dashboard electronic display clock.
#23 by TheWrathOfGrapes on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 2:47 pm
/// Brief comparison of prices like that, without account of variants and other factors, does not by itself prove “fishinessâ€Â. ///
Yes and no, and it could cut both ways – it might even be more fishy.
Agree that factors such as variants, enhancements, advanced avionics, amount of spares that come with the planes, training, technology transfers, and prevailing exchange rates will affect the comparison.
But a few points about the Indian purchase. It is the latest and the US dollar has been depreciating, so in fact the Indians should be paying more in US$. Also, the Indians do drive a hard bargain and usually insist of joint production or tech transfer.
So, assuming most of the variables are more or less the same, the table does give a quite fair comparison. Of course, we have not factored in the fact that the Malaysian variants may be more expensive because it has been “leak-proofed”. And don’t forget the “free” ride in space for some Buminauts in the Cosmic taxi…
;)
#24 by Jong on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 3:07 pm
Obviously one greedy VVIP must be riding the gravy train! Let’s hope the Altantuya murder case will help reveal and give us some leads.
He’ll meet his fate with such ill-gotten wealth.
#25 by silhouette on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 3:16 pm
Dont worry yourself about the discrepency la. Vietnam bought it cheap because they are a poor nation and so they just bought the shell and took them home to fit with their own engines and fittings. Remember too they have lots of engines left by the US from the Vietnam war. Lots of arms left too.
As u know India is a corrupt nation, so they paid more to get some kickback. A million USD is a lot of money when u convert to rupees.
Malaysia is even more corrupted than India so they have to pay more for the agent who helped them purchase the fighters.
#26 by Jong on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 3:41 pm
Oh yeah, kapal terbang potong?!
#27 by MyTomyam on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 5:29 pm
The sukhois are not combat-worthiness-proven fighter jets. So why purchase them? A better fighter aircraft would have been the F16 having seen actual superiority combats in Vietnam, Korea and Iraq.
The 2 jets will be on display at the coming LIMA 2007. If you take a close look at their body, you will see the difference when compared with F16 or F18 which are also on dispaly at LIMA.
#28 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 6:52 pm
“I wonder who’s pocket is that.” Kit
Rosmah??
#29 by Rocky on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 7:10 pm
The govt should tell us in a ‘telus’ way why we are paying so much. BTW the govt didn’t pay commission means nothing cos the commission can be paid by the seller cos influence by the buyer.
So Pak Lah and Najib tell uswhy the price is higher and yes we understand there are variants but still it is taxpayers money, not yours.
#30 by greenacre on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 7:14 pm
moongcha mentioned that malaysia bought 30 hawks before.. my memory says it was f15/16. They were never brought back from Nevada desert where they were mothballed for long. Later papa said that they were not worth bringing back and they were looking for buyers. Did anybody beat a path to their door?
#31 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 9:48 pm
The United States do not sell its latest weaponry and technology to about every country in the market looking for equipment to buy. They only sell obsolete equipment, those mothballed in the Nevada desert waiting for leaders who are suckers, from developing countries to come along.
Because third world countries do not have the resources to purchase such expensive equipment, what finally get sold is the stripped down version of the more expensive original.
#32 by dawsheng on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 11:06 pm
If you think the most canggih weapons can protect us I am afraid you are wrong. What is the use of even the most sophisticated weapons if those who swore to protect malaysia eventually will sold her out for self-interest? Looks like we have been sleeping with the enemy all along.
#33 by smeagroo on Sunday, 27 May 2007 - 11:35 pm
Our Sukhoi got PlayStation installed in it. Got Surround sound system and Plasma TV also.
When the Russians sold us the jets, they renamed it. To us it is called Sukhoi. TO them it is called Sukher. (sucker)
#34 by DarkHorse on Monday, 28 May 2007 - 12:43 am
“If you take a close look at their body, you will see the difference when compared with F16 or F18 which are also on dispaly at LIMA.”
If you look closely for the second you’ll see that the metal used in the making is from scrap metal they brought back from Afghanistan when they lost the war and retreated from that country!
And if you look even closer you’ll see Putin’s face!!
We have been had by the Ruskies.
#35 by Bigjoe on Monday, 28 May 2007 - 9:48 am
US$50mil per plane. Need to look at the details of the contract but the key is the service contract. This is where they really gauge it. There is generally two ways of doing it. Impose it upfront with everything spelled out (the way Singapore and smart ones do it) OR allow it to be vauged so that later on MORE can be charged. Trust me when I tell you that US$50mil per plane is not the end of the price for these planes
#36 by FuturePolitician on Monday, 28 May 2007 - 11:00 am
Defence industries are enormous boyz club..they can turn the world around if they must to sell their equipments..or to make billions. They can even sell th aircraft of 1mil each if they going to make billions in the future.
anyhow, the price differences could stem from the auxilliary equipment attached to it and the ammo too. No big deal if the price variant is high. Vietnam could be cheaper due to a few less accessories such as extra fuel compartment, missile, targeting system, active or passive radar..longer distance radar, defence options like chaffs,etc.. and many more..also training..some of us are too dumb to learn and need more traning then others..later flight simulation required..like PC or PS2..
ok….i begin to sound dumb.
#37 by Jong on Monday, 28 May 2007 - 11:29 am
….”some of us are too dumb to learn ..”
At the end many graduate from cyber-cafes! That’s why you don’t see many of these planes don’t make it to their anniversary.
#38 by Jong on Monday, 28 May 2007 - 11:32 am
Oops, correction:
That’s why y9u don’t see many of these planes make it to their anniversary.
#39 by Jimm on Monday, 28 May 2007 - 12:05 pm
It’s a tied in package to get our two boys to space …. not choice
We have to packaged in everything along the way …
That’s the price ..
#40 by boyboycute on Monday, 28 May 2007 - 4:19 pm
Maybe our jet’s design is more superior than the India’s and Vietnam’s.That’s why we pay 25%(10mil) more than India or 100%(25mil) more than Vietnam for each jet.I guess not many Malaysians have knowledge about jets but simple math shouldn’t be a problem for us!
#41 by loud8 on Monday, 28 May 2007 - 4:42 pm
I thought I saw that the deal came with a free “1st Malaysian roti canai” in space?
#42 by mob1900 on Monday, 28 May 2007 - 4:58 pm
Make sure it comes with ‘Immobilizers’ arr, never know who might steal it at our ‘tight-security’ air bases for joy-rides or sell it as scrap metals to junkyards!
#43 by Toyol on Monday, 28 May 2007 - 5:54 pm
Defence is the best place to siphon off monies. Purchase of military hardware has no intrinsic value…so many configurations that a price cannot be determined. Why in the first place buy expensive hardware when we have no need for it? Who are we afraid off? Do we even have the expertise to use such weaponry? After 12 months it is already obsolete!
#44 by sheriff singh on Monday, 28 May 2007 - 8:39 pm
In the airline business, you don’t want to have too many different types of aircraft as it brings with it alot of problems like having to have to carry different spare parts, train people to service them, train pilots to fly them etc etc.
Why is our air force (and armed forces) so complicated, so lacking in focus? We have weaponry from all over the world, even Turkey, Brazil, Czech republic, Korea, India etc etc I really wonder whether it is a fighting force any more.
Wasn’t it in the news some months ago most of our Armoured Personnel Carriers are non-operational because of lack of spare parts, expertise and maintenance?
What have our (then) “state-of-the art” and now ageing aircraft like the MiGs been used for?
#45 by susmaryosep on Monday, 28 May 2007 - 11:11 pm
Kita komen, someone is laughing all the way to the bank. But someone else is languishing in Jail….. What will the June 4 trial expose? Another sandiwara like the dirty mattress ?
#46 by mendela on Tuesday, 29 May 2007 - 12:44 am
LIMA show is still alive?
I thought it was long dead after TDM quit!
This is another TDM pet project that bleed Malaysian coffer!
#47 by japankiller on Tuesday, 29 May 2007 - 12:45 am
This is a sign of inflation from economy point of view, believe me if being question Najib will said this.
AND
He will mention about the currency exchange as well.
#48 by japankiller on Tuesday, 29 May 2007 - 12:56 am
A brand new Proton Savvy are just selling at$13k in Australia.
($13K * 2.82 = rm36,400). How much selling in Malaysia?I think around rm45K
And mind you, selling at $13,000 is FULLY IMPORTED from Malaysia, the price already included shipping cost, custom duty, and dealer comission. Proton are suking money from it own people, have you seen a country selling their national car in a higher price then selling offshore?Only in Malaysia.
Why we deserve this price?Those who driving Proton on the street are actually a rich man, cos they buying the car not value for thier money.
#49 by meursault on Tuesday, 29 May 2007 - 2:00 pm
Selling RM1.50 iced Milo at RM 1.80 (20% higher) not OK. Selling RM40mil jet at RM50mil (25% higher) no problem!
#50 by i_love_malaysia on Tuesday, 29 May 2007 - 4:37 pm
I wonder whether Malaysia has the right people in the airforce to make full use of the features available!! From the Auditor General past reports, many fighter jets could not fly because of no spare parts and proper maintenance. Look at Singapore, they are upgrading the Skyhawk and continues to use them for active service. For Malaysia, we just buy and buy without proper evaluation and the end result will be getting fighterjets with 4 years old technology!! and spent tons of money in keeping our airforce pilots in foreign lands enjoying themselves as an incentives. DAP should question the gov, why not station the trainers in Malaysia? this will definitely cutting down the cost of training. This is another e.g. why our hard earned money and tax money being spent wastefully!!!
#51 by DarkHorse on Wednesday, 30 May 2007 - 6:52 am
“For Malaysia, we just buy and buy without proper evaluation and the end result will be getting fighterjets with 4 years old technology!!”
Only four years?? I am not surprised if the aircraft have been stripped off their parts to meet the price offered. Have to be cheap because the rest is commission.
#52 by i_love_malaysia on Wednesday, 30 May 2007 - 1:45 pm
According to kelangman, it was first revealed in 1993, so it should be 14 years old technology instead of 4 years old technology. I wonder why we take so long to take the first delivery i.e. after placing the order in year 2003??
#53 by choost on Thursday, 31 May 2007 - 12:01 am
Isn’t this how we creat Billionaires in Malaysia? Please get Guiness Book of Records to check and confirm that Malaysia creats the most numbers of Billionaires within a 20 years period. Just wonder why Malaysian government dares not claim this great record. Joke aside, this must be the greatest achievement no other governments in the world can claimed! Not even the so-called developed nations’ government!!!! Malaysia Boleh!!!!!
#54 by accountability on Sunday, 3 June 2007 - 5:13 pm
najis is really changing his lifestyle now!
#55 by accountability on Sunday, 3 June 2007 - 5:13 pm
…into one of insanely rich!
#56 by dodolll on Wednesday, 6 June 2007 - 9:41 pm
Malaysia purchase for special edition… that’s why a little bit expensive lah… more speed and accurancy…. if they do benchmark with other’s sukhoi… sure kalah one… some more the window is tinted….enemy can’t see who’s piloting the jet…hahahahaha
#57 by Orlando on Monday, 11 June 2007 - 10:19 am
Vietnam version are the most basic version of Sukhoi & tat y the price very2 cheap. MKI (India) Version are the best export version & that y more expensive & the nett price r around 30 to 35 each. Malaysian version are the basic version which Vietnam bought & plus some accessories which the value shud b around 30 mil so the 20 mil for who’s pocket? Than of coz to the pocket of person who come with this purchase idea than the person who approved the idea. Air superiority, of coz the Sukhoi better than F16 or F18 (4th generation fighter) as Sukhoi-30MK are 4.5 generation fighter. Sukhoi-30 hv same class with US F15 block E/F. US F16 & F18 good during Iraq & Afghan operation becoz Iraq & Afghan do hv good air defense as Iran do ie S-300. That Y US & NATO till today not dare to attack IRAN as they don’t want to sent their BIRD to be shut down. For long term, it’s good for Malaysia to have an advance Jet fighter as now if we hv a war S’pore with current equipment, for sure they easily kick our ass. So as Malaysian…. vote for DAP to avoid our tax money go to our Datuk2 pocket.
#58 by forrestcat on Friday, 12 October 2007 - 2:41 pm
India could bring the cost down because they manufacture their own Su-30MKI. Vietnam’s as far as I am concerned bought a less capable version of the Sukhoi, presumably a Su-27, which is the SU-30 predecessor.
Malaysia’s Su-30MKM is also more expensive as we ditched the Israeli avionics which is standard in all Su-30 and opted for a hodgepodge of South AFrican and French avionics, which also requires more $$$ to integrate.Su-30MKM dun even have a manual yet coz it’s so different from other versions.
The Su-30MKM procurement is soooo risky that MAF clearly stated that they want the F-18F Super Hornet, not more SU-30MK..well at least until integration problems associated with the Su-30MKM is solved.
#59 by citizen on Friday, 12 October 2007 - 4:15 pm
According to defense analysts, Su-30MKM and Su-30MKI are the most modern Su-30 aircraft in the market and are far more advance than Su-30MKK purchased by Vietnam.
The Indian and Malaysian versions are similar but weapons are different. The malaysian version has Damocles laser designator pod from Thales (laser guided gun) whereas the Indian version does not have. The Malaysian Su-30MKM is fitted with a missile approach warning system and laser warner by Saab Avitronics in South Africa. I believe both variants have similar systems but probably from different manufacturers.
We are not comparing apple to apple because the Su-30MK series is customizable. Like you buy a car with CD player (if come with what brand), leather seat, EBS/ABS, single/double air bags, etc.
I think more meat is required in order to say that something fishy is happening.
#60 by thaksan on Saturday, 13 October 2007 - 9:14 pm
My opinion is that the jets are only as good as the pilots flying them. The British and Americans pilots have proved this in various battles throughout history that they have out gunned Russian jets of much superior class.
Anyway, the question is: do we need to invest such an amount on next gen military hardware at all?? Do you see any threat to the nation? I think the military spending should have been spent for nation building instead, for the sake of Malaysia’s future!!!
For more on Graft in Malaysia’s Defense Ministry go to:
http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=720&Itemid=31
#61 by thaksan on Monday, 29 October 2007 - 5:43 pm
Citizen is right: the sukhoi-30 is highly customizable. The details on the Malaysian variant can be found in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-30)
Su-30MKM
Based on the MKI, a highly specialised version for Malaysia with the same platform but a French, Russian and South African combination of avionics. It will feature head-up displays (HUD), navigational forward-looking IR system (NAVFLIR) and Laser Designation pod (LDP Damocles) from Thales Group of France, missile approach warning sensor (MAWS) and laser warning sensor (LWS) from AVITRONICS company of South Africa, as well as the Russian BARS NIIP N011M AESA radar, electronic warfare (EW) system, optical-location system (OLS) and a glass cockpit.
–> Why do i feel that having need three different countries to supply our most advance air superiority fighter is a bad idea? Only time will tell…
#62 by dk on Monday, 10 December 2007 - 3:02 am
to kurakura: Su-30 is designed for the purpose of air superiority compared to F-16 which is a multi-role fighter. So in terms of technical capabilities…Su-30s are at a vantage point in a dogfight. But no use great planes without great pilots…then again, when it comes to skills and training, our pilots are fammished compared to singpore’s experienced pilots. Only a fight may tell us of the outcome…very subjective indeed.
#63 by dk on Monday, 10 December 2007 - 3:10 am
Btw, i heard singpore got aircraft carrier…that seems rather radical for such a country to make such a procurement…do i see their need for an aircraft carrier? Maybe no land to build airport hehe…LK Yew’s pretty delussioned sometimes…
#64 by aztechx on Saturday, 15 December 2007 - 10:13 pm
well..our Sukhois were equipped with state of the art avionics and were custom made according to our needs..our order was considered very much of the high end which means the price cant be compared to those of vietnam because their orders were for a ‘basic’ Su-30..a better comparison would be with the indians Su-30MkI..but the indian sukhois were manufactured in india as they had approved license from sukhoi to produce those planes there..that would explain the cheaper price..PLUS,we had to go through the hassle of replacing the israelis avionics with those from thales(france) and south africa whereas the MkI came with the default avionics..
just my 2 cents.. :)
#65 by steiner on Saturday, 17 May 2008 - 12:35 am
those who criticise about malaysian su-30 mkm’s procurement should consider this:
“AKhK Sukhoi supplies to Vietnam four Su-30 MK2 fighters
Sukhoi aviation holding company has delivered to Vietnam four Su-30 MK2 heavy fighters, the company said in a statement. The contract was made in December of 2003. In 2004, the company entered into the contracts for delivery of 50 planes of Su type with the aggregate contract value over $2.5 bln.
As informed, establishment of OAO Sukhoi aviation holding company (AKhK Sukhoi) has been completed this year. In particular, AKhK Sukhoi received in management 74.5% both in Komsomolsk-on-Amur aviation production association (KNAAPO) and Novosibirsk Aviation Production Association (NAPO) as well as 13% in Irkut Corporation, 38% in Taganrog Aviation Research and Engineering Complex (TANTK), 50% plus a stock in OKB Sukoi. State-run stake in the holding stands at 100%.
Gateway to Russia – December 20, 2004. ”
http://patrick.guenin2.free.fr/cantho/vnnews/sukhoi.htm
procurement made in year 2003 cost as much as what has been charged to malaysian government which is at the average value of myr50 million/unit (omitting the other things included in the package)
#66 by Alharam on Wednesday, 18 June 2008 - 4:28 pm
Oh, when Singapore goes on a spending spree for its defence modernisation, it’s okay. It’s okay for them to have more than 90 F-16 Fighting Falcons and in the process of acquiring F-15 Eagles to beef up its air superiority arsenal. Tapi kita di Malaysia tak boleh? Kenapa pulak? I think the Sukhois are necessary. Tolong la berbangga sikit dengan negara. Jangan sampai this turns into something racial.
#67 by Alharam on Wednesday, 18 June 2008 - 4:29 pm
Not acquiring sophisticated weapons will not end corruption. The former is not the root cause of the latter.
Do we need the Su-30MKM and the Scorpene SSK? A definite, “Yes!” Should all Malaysians should fight corruption? Off course. But not by leaving us weaker vis-a-vis other countries. Friendly neighbours become covetous when they feel they can get away with it.
#68 by Alharam on Wednesday, 18 June 2008 - 4:31 pm
As compared to Singapore, Thailand and to a certain extent Indonesia, the modernisation of our armed forces are highly unlikely to make them quake in their boots. Vietnam even has a potent SAM battery, the S300.
The modernisation of our armed forces are necessary and timely.
Thailand recently bought 12 Gripen and 2 AEW planes for USD 1.2 Billion, more expensive than our USD 900 Million purchase of 18 SU-30MKM and assortment of missiles. The SU-30MKM has better payload, greater range, same avionics as the Gripen, better manouverability than Gripen thanks to its TVC, better future than Gripen due to the big number of Flanker fleets in Asia.
Singapore recently purchased a squadron of F-15s, several La Fayette Class FFGs, 2 more subs, and to ensure enough carnage in case of war, HIMARS. And if one bothers to check the US DoD report, Singapore bought additional 200 AIM120Ds, 200 AIM9X in ‘05.
Indonesia is doing the same as well, in August 2007 they have agreed to purchase USD 1 billion worth of arms from Russia.
Thailand for reason best known to themselves, bought an aircraft carrier !
I believe weapons spending is a sheer waste of resources, but having said that .. this is the reality of life that we live. Weapons spending is a necessity. Which is why any ToT, off set programme is a welcome addition.
I remember during the Ambalat crisis we had with Indonesia, the Indonesians were sending surface vessels, several F16s in a show of force. Our Govertment was sane enough not to send our MiG-29s or FA-18s to counter Indonesia’s F16 or sending our Lekiu Class FFGs. We only sent a few small patrol boats there.
The Pulau Batu Putih/Prada Branca episode with Singapore, well .. less sabre rattling but enough boats were sent that could lead to minor skirmishes.
I remember 2-3 years ago, some Philippines Senator was making dumb threat of invading Sabah. He was later told by his colleague that their armed forces would be slaughtered by the Malaysian military had they attempted.
Correct me if I am wrong, Thais, Indonesia and Singapore have had submarines more than 10 years ago. By now they would have an established submarine doctrine. We are just getting our toes wet in this Sub business.
I wish we live in better times, in times of peace, not of fragile peace. That all apparatus of destruction is shipped to space and dumped as junk.
I am not suggesting that Thais, Indonesia, Singapore, Philippines are our enemy, but they have constantly upgraded their defence capability and we need to do the same.
I know it is is not nice to suppress any views, but some idiot out there would say that we are no match for US. If defence purchase is measured by whether a country can defend against US, no one will purchase arms since the defence spending of US is bigger than UK/Russia/China/France put together.
#69 by Alharam on Wednesday, 18 June 2008 - 4:32 pm
Hi. Ronnie liu speakinhg here. For me all this jets buisness is just a waste of goverment funds. Why waste the people money? Why dont we give the people free water so they can waste more water? Why dont we give the power to the people and ignore all the laws? Why dont we do more and more street demos becouse its seems to be so much fun? Why dont we ram the FRU with a car and put all the blame on the police for being to hard even though somebody just ramed them with a car? Yes lets do that….. Who do we want to fight anyway… Yes.. We must not buy all this weopons becouse it seems to offensive by our neighbouring countries.. Eventhough their armed forces are far more advance than ours we must never follow in their misrable path.. This is a community reminder by ur friendly neighberhood superhero Ronnie Liu YB of Pandamaran.
#70 by logicman75 on Sunday, 28 September 2008 - 9:18 pm
I believe that under table money is paid on the Sukhoi Deals. I also believe that Malaysia could get a much better price after firece negotiations as this is an RFI, RFQ.
Sukhoi aircraft sold to Vietnam and China differ alot in terms of avionics, weapons systems and more. If you go an read how defence purchase are made, there are a couple of aspect that people should know which is the purchasing method. Once includes fly away cost and the other is a unit fly away cost. What differs is the latter has insurance and warranty and tested by factory pilots for certification. The first is aircraft coming out of the factory way malaysian engineers need to test, pay for aviation fuel and certify by themselves with no warranty. There is 2 substantial cost difference among these. You can add a package of weapons which are not sold on units of missiles but a propwer package. Like vietnam, they have ordered the aircraft but not the weapon package as the weapon are already available. This same applies to China and India. As for Malaysia, we bought a weapons package that is abit more different to those weapons bought for the MIG-29 even though both are interchangeable for some weapons but not all the weapons. Malaysia also purchased warranty and certified guarantee plus large amount of spare part. Vietnam didn’t do that and so did india as the spare parts are already there and never calculated.
Why Malaysia sent pilots to be trained in India and not Russia as the earlier batch was done so in Russia but due to Language problem, were sent to India due to their english speaking nature and that they are expert in using and maintaining Russian weapons systems. Though i dont suspect RM 180m going into someone’s pocket but maybe less than that!…In Malaysia, all defence arrangements are arranged through middleman, agents as they are called. Why because the agents may have influence within the MINDEF. We aren’t the only country in the world that do this. Basically every country in the world does this in a corrupt way, some are so sophisticated that no one will know until several years latter!..We Malaysians are good at corruption but we just dont’ do it sophisticatedly nor do we hide it efficiently!..
#71 by pakkua80 on Wednesday, 11 November 2009 - 2:42 pm
Mr. Lim,
Can you try to investigate why is our RMAF is not up to par with the rest of ASEAN in shooting skills ? http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/mindef_websites/topics/aarms09/index.html
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=108150&page=475
Check the links and you will see for your self.