Religion disrupting families — two more cases

The Cabinet tomorrow must give top priority to end the series of man-made tragedies of religion disrupting families and announce after its meeting a proactive strategy to put an end to such instances which have cast a dark shadow over the nation’s 50th Merdeka anniversary celebrations.

For over forty years, such instances of family disruptions because of religion were virtually unheard of but its increasing incidence is giving Malaysia not only a bad name internationally but stand as an indictment of the failure of nation-building and national integration in plural Malaysia on half-a-century of nationhood.

The two latest instances:

1. A hair saloon operator, Benedict Gopal, 32, married his wife Audrey Christina Samuel, 29, six years ago and have two children Melissa, 5 and Jason 17 months. Both are born Christians.

In April, she left the house after differences with her husband, converted to Islam and took the name Nur Adryana Questina binti Abdullah. The two children remained with the father.

On May 3, 2007, she secured an ex-parte order from the Negri Sembilan Syariah Court directing the Negri Sembilan Islamic Affairs Department (MAINS) and the Police to co-operate to get Benedict Gopal to hand over Melissa and Jason to the mother.

Benedict Gopal was given 14 days to appear before the Negri Sembilan syariah court to set aside its order.

There have been two unsuccessful attempts involving the police to take Melissa and Jason from Benedict Gopal to hand them over to the custody of Nur Adryana Questina.

2. Magendran, 25, lorry-driver, from Klang, Selangor, married Najeera Farvinli binti Mohamed Jalali, 25, through a traditional Hindu ceremony on 15th July 2006 at Kuil Maha Mariamman, Klang and they led a happy married life.

On 28th April 2007, seven Jabatan Agama Islam Selangor (JAIS) male officers raided his house in Klang and detained his wife and forcibly took her away without the presence of any female officer, on the ground that she was a Muslim according to her identity card.

Magendran lodged a police report at the Klang police station on the very same day. The JAIS officers did not serve any detention order when they took Najeera away from their home.

Both Benedict Gopal and Magendran accompanied DAP National Chairman and MP for Bukit Glugor, Karpal Singh to Parliament this afternoon for a media conference.

Karpal will be applying for a declaration from the civil court to assert Benedict Gopal’s constitutional rights while in the latter case, a habeas corpus application by Magendran to free Najeera from illegal detention by JAIS authorities has been filed.

  1. #1 by anakbaram on Tuesday, 8 May 2007 - 6:15 pm

    All unjust over-zealous and arogant attitude of anybody in treating another in the name of religion can not be the teaching of any religion. No relgion teaches haughtiness, partisanship and bigotry.

    That type of person mis-out the “spirituality” part of the religion which is the core of any religion. Instead they cling to “religiousity” which are mere vehical (or outward forms) to support and promote spirituality. By the way it is because so many have mistaken religiousity for spirituality that make so many seemingly pious who turn out to be crooked and corrupted. Work to be spiritual, change from inside and not from the outside.

  2. #2 by k1980 on Tuesday, 8 May 2007 - 6:27 pm

    After being killed by islamist terrorists, look what happened to their families
    “…those killed in the 2002 Bali bombings had been destined to die by God and their grieving families should now convert to Islam to find “salvation and peace”.

  3. #3 by pwcheng on Tuesday, 8 May 2007 - 6:35 pm

    Why is this so called beautiful religion giving the people of this country so much of problems. Looks like we really have an impasse on this and Karpal will have his hands full to untangle all this, one by one and one following after the other. It is not only heartsick but real tiring to hear all this man made problems for the purpose of political expediency.

  4. #4 by ihavesomethingtosay on Tuesday, 8 May 2007 - 7:01 pm

    “It’s about a woman who was born Muslim but decides to marry a Hindu man. This video shows the controversy and debate regarding freedom of religion in Malaysia and the Syariah court’s reign on civil liberties. ” –

    hear the argument and decide for yourself if the Islamic law savvy person sounds as if he too has “foot in mouth”

  5. #5 by Libra2 on Tuesday, 8 May 2007 - 7:19 pm

    This woman is making use of the religion to get at her husband. As I see it, the moment she converted to Islam she is divorced from her husband and she has no right whatsoever to his property or to the custody of the children. And the husband need not apply to the Syariah Court to set aside the order.

  6. #6 by sammyvellu on Tuesday, 8 May 2007 - 7:49 pm

    Islam is not only portrayed as a religioon that harbours, encourages, promotes and teaches terrorism but also as a religion that wrecks happy families.


  7. #7 by a-malaysian on Tuesday, 8 May 2007 - 8:30 pm

    Is this the moderate islam hadwhateverdari as preach by bodohwi and approved by all his running dog parties?

    Everyone is afraid of PAS ruling this country, because of its islamic way?
    I now would prefer PAS rather than the bodohwi’s hadwhateverdari religion. Yes you get your hand chop off if you are caught stealing, stone to death for the sin that you do, at least these people are criminals that deserve these punishments.

    So the so call moderate islam hadwhateverdari is worst than PAS, innocent family are torn apart because of religious differences and they are no criminal, mind you and the country is telling the whole world that we are practicing religious freedom. My foot.

    50 years is ENOUGH
    Vote For A Change
    Vote For Any Opposition
    Give Them A Chance To Change For A Better Malaysia
    Remember bn Is A Useless Grouping Of Self Serving, Corrupt, Dictator, Power Crazy, Racist, Kris waving, etc, etc type of parties.

  8. #8 by izrafeil on Tuesday, 8 May 2007 - 9:19 pm

    Frankly my chinese friends thinks doing business in Kelanta is a breeze, virtually no undertable moneies required, and they are more tolerant to the other religions (true teaching of Mohamed)!

  9. #9 by lakshy on Tuesday, 8 May 2007 - 9:44 pm

    izrafeil, I heard the same thing too. I find that Pas is more tolerant of other religions. The bad press they have been getting is a smear tactic by bn. I know of chinese and indian temples occupying tol land being given the titles by Pas governments when Bn governments have always stalled.

    Its easy to see Nik Aziz compared to any other chief minister. Most bn chief ministers try to avoid seeing you. Of course they want you to contribute to the ‘umno’ political fund. By the way did you know there was such a thing? And they openly ask businesses to contribute to it?

  10. #10 by toyolbuster on Tuesday, 8 May 2007 - 9:53 pm

    Can somebody wake up the sleeping ugly PM and get him to sort out his Islam Hadhari thingy and shut down the criminal JAIS operation. They have shamed the country with wrongful arrests, [deleted] and a long list of despicable acts. [deleted]

  11. #11 by bbtan on Tuesday, 8 May 2007 - 10:14 pm

    izrafeil @ 9.19 pm., you are describing the beautiful part of Islam. The problems faced by Benedict gopal and Magendran is another part of the same religion.

  12. #12 by sivabalan on Tuesday, 8 May 2007 - 10:20 pm

    This is a case of people abusing the Islamic religion for personal benefit.
    If the authorities do not put a stop to this disturbing trend, converting to Islam seems to provide an easy way out of a feuding marriage. Not only provides instant nullification of a previous official marriage but also custody to the children without having to go to the courts. Note that the non Muslim party has no legal standing to seek redress in the Syariah Courts.
    I hope this disturbing trend is brought to an end as soon as possible. I am sure the original intention of having these laws was not to cause such injustice both to the agrieved non Muslim parties nor to Islam.

  13. #13 by Jonny on Tuesday, 8 May 2007 - 10:35 pm

    Yes, I would prefer PAS to BN anyday now. Just look at who now is ULTRA-Extremist?

    The Chinese mindset has to be set that PAS is acceptable and moderate, lest for the occasional bloopers by their leaders harped non-stop in the BN controlled media.

    Islam is beautiful. But is made to extremism by the ruling govt.

    More to come. This is just tip of the iceberg.

  14. #14 by sheriff singh on Tuesday, 8 May 2007 - 10:43 pm

    Ah! What will “King Solomon” compromise on now?

  15. #15 by fighter on Tuesday, 8 May 2007 - 10:46 pm

    If nothing is done to arrest problems of this nature,more and more cases of this nature will crop up.This type of case need political solution rather than legal as judges are
    part of the problem and not the solution.

    I am amazed that there is no outrage coming from the non-Muslims.This will embolden the Shariah Court forcing non-Muslims to submit to their jurisdiction which is not only iilegal but unconstitutional.But then again who cares since there is no outcry!

    When the Chairman of Gerakan Wilayah commented as to why no action was taken against the Mufti of Perak for the problems caused at a church in Ipoh, at once the threat of demonstration was issued by political parties and the Chairman immediately had to backtrack.As a comparison, when non-Muslims were asked by the Civil Court to face the Shariah Court, there was no squeak from the non-Muslims’ political parties.We deserve to be treated with contempt!.

    Just like what Lee Kuan Yew said, if you behaved like an orange people will squeeze you hard as the harder they squeeze the more juice they will get.However, if you behaved like a durian they dared not squeezed you as they would feel pain if they squeezed you.So non-Muslims must behave like durians in order to safeguard the future.

  16. #16 by bbtan on Tuesday, 8 May 2007 - 11:23 pm

    If only LKY would comment on religion in Malaysia. It would generate unsmart responses from the BN politicians. When LKY said the Chinese in Malaysia were marginalized, I thought it was unwise of the PM to ask for an apology. LKY did apologize, a msm spinned it, and kerismuddin happy that LKY has apologised!

  17. #17 by Tai Lo Chin on Tuesday, 8 May 2007 - 11:39 pm

    so declared Uncle Kit.

    The words to be highlighted are “family disruptions”.

    Yes, religion too is important. Well, more important in some societies and of lesser importance in some others. In communist country based on atheistic ideology, it is of no importance at all.

    But family? It is, as an institution, important in nearly all societies whether religious or not. Nearly all societies are dedicated to the building of happy family life and honoring the sanctity of family.

    In these premises, religion though important, ought not to be enforced by men to fracture happy family life and the sanctity of family. This is what happened in the second cited case of Magendran, 25, lorry-driver, from Klang, Selangor happily married to Najeera Farvinli binti Mohamed Jalali, 25, through a traditional Hindu ceremony on 15th July 2006 at Kuil Maha Mariamman, Klang.

    Should religion be enforced by men so rigidly such as to break an otherwise happy marriage and family life? Most important religions, Islam included, uphold the importance and sanctity of marriage and happy family life. So how could religion be interpreted in the manner to render its enforcement such as to wreck an otherwise happy marriage and family life, leaving young dependent children, in some cases, without the wholeness of both parents being with them?

    Need I state clearer where the priority should lie when interpretation of religion and family institution conflict?

    In the other earlier first case cited, Benedict Gopal, 32, married his wife Audrey Christina Samuel, 29 and structured their family life with children on the tenets, principles of civil law governing marriage between Christians. Each spouse is entitled to rely on the other to be governed by the civil law framework. They made solemn promises to one another, raised children together based on this framework of ground rules. The sanctity of family institution is upheld by the rules of this framework. If the marriage fails, then the benefit or cost will lie when they fall, according to that framework. Neither party should be allowed to change the framework agreed by reversing the distribution of benefit and cost prior agreed by mere expedience of changing the framework by conversion. Here one is entitled to convert and change framework. What ought not to be allowed is the change of distribution of benefit and cost sanctified by earlier framework solemnly agreed to.

    To allow one spouse to change system midstream and take advantage of it not only violates sanctity of family life but also condones bad faith on the party changing horse midstream.

    This does not imply that the religion Islam is not important or relegated to lesser importance than sanctity of family. This comparison is irrelevant.

    To use an analogy, imagine two parties going into a boxing ring to engage in the sport of boxing. They agree to be bound by the rules to wear glove and punch above the belt.

    Can one party in midway then throw away his gloves and start kick-boxing, karate and akido to hit the other party? No, we say it cannot be allowed. That is not because kick boxing karate and akido are inferior or less important as an art or sport when compared to boxing. Such a comparison is irrelevant. This has nothing to do with it. It is because one party should not be allowed to take advantage of a change the rules of engagement to the other party entitled to rely on the rules earlier agreed. To flout this basic premise is to create chaos and injustice. This is why what Nur Adryana Questina does should not supported or be sanctioned by state power.

    From what has been discussed it will be apparent that some things are universally held in sanctity in every society whatever the dominant religion.

    They are the importance of the sanctity of family life and the importance of not allowing a party to renege on solemn promise that the significant other, who has structured his or her life on it, is entitled to rely upon. It is important that innocent dependent children should not be separated from their caring parents. It is hard the Creator has intended families to be wrecked and misery to befall young children by the enforcement of laws attributable to Him.

    The upholding of these principles is the bedrock of civilization itself. As we move from the dark Ages to the upper sunlit lands of progress, these values are strengthened and not derogated.

    This is why Uncle Kit argues family disruptions are tragic and bases his objections on this pivotal ground.

  18. #18 by Tai Lo Chin on Tuesday, 8 May 2007 - 11:56 pm

    Profound apologies. 3rd para from bottom should read – It is hard to imagine the Creator has intended families to be wrecked and misery to befall…

  19. #19 by pharisee on Wednesday, 9 May 2007 - 12:21 am

    Here WAS a Christian family. The wife decided to leave the husband and her kids. She converted herself to Islam. Now she wants the custody of her kids. Whether I believe in a Christian God or a Islam god or a Hindu god or Buddha or none at all, I would say that the kids should not be forced to embrace Islam. There should be a law that will protect the kids from being influenced / forced into converting to Islam without any personal convictions, for a certain number of years when they are able to think for themselves and to decide which religion will give them the ultimate salvation.

  20. #20 by HJ Angus on Wednesday, 9 May 2007 - 12:45 am

    We never heard of such cases in the good old days.

    It appears that as Malaysia prospered, the religious authorities have been given more manpower to enforce their laws.

    Previously they used to snatch corpses but now even small children are being detained.

    If you look at the poll on my blog, you will notice that the majority feel that the Muslim judges have not been doing their jobs properly in the secular courts.

    Now it seems that the religious courts are calling the shots.

  21. #21 by DiaperHead on Wednesday, 9 May 2007 - 12:55 am

    “To allow one spouse to change system midstream and take advantage of it not only violates sanctity of family life but also condones bad faith on the party changing horse midstream.” Tai Lo Chin

    In this case it is the partner doing it, and not the Government of Malaysia!

    This is akin to changing the rules of the game midstream. Yes, I agree –
    except that in this case it is initiated by the partner who no longer sees the relevance of the game to her,

    Then there are cases of Buddhists and Hindus who converted to become Muslims for the wrong reason. The reason is wrong because the reason for the conversion has nothing to do with religion and certainly not the Muslim religion. The conversion is to acquire the privileged status of ‘bumiputra’ and ‘Muslim convert’ motivated only by earthly reasons and not by reasons not of this world! It is not as if two wrongs don’t make a right but imagine what it could do to family unity. Talking about apportioning blame!

    What do you have to say to that?

  22. #22 by Tai Lo Chin on Wednesday, 9 May 2007 - 1:29 am

    To Diaperhead: One partner may be converting. Whether it is for reasons outside or within this world, it is that partner’s personal decision. Good or bad for themselves is nobody’s business. However if by their conversion, injustice is done to the other partner who cries out for justice not only for the party but their children, it then becomes our business. It is our business because as cited by our Uncle Kit “on May 3, 2007, she (Nur Adryana Questina) “secured an ex-parte order from the Negri Sembilan Syariah Court directing the Negri Sembilan Islamic Affairs Department (MAINS) and the Police to co-operate to get Benedict Gopal to hand over Melissa and Jason to the mother”. Here the full power of the state including Negeri sembilan Syariah Court and the police backed the enforcement by Negri Sembilan Islamic Affairs Department (MAINS) of Nur Adryana Questina under the rules of the new framework. It then becomes our business. The full power of the state is used in partisan way to back Nur Adryana Questina’s self serving and unfair actions of changing horse at midstream against one such as Benedict Gopal who like the rest of us are outside the Islamic framework. I would say the exercise of state power in partisan way without heed to families being wrecked and common sense fairness is very much part of our collective business and concern as citizens of this country. Don’t you think so?

  23. #23 by smeagroo on Wednesday, 9 May 2007 - 1:52 am

    It is so sick isnt it? what difference are they from terrorists who killed bcos they think they r doing God’s work for the betterment of mankind?

  24. #24 by accountability on Wednesday, 9 May 2007 - 6:09 am

    these unemployable bums in JAIS are bullying the rakyat, they MUST be stopped!

    what is the lame BN doing about this??!

  25. #25 by good coolie on Wednesday, 9 May 2007 - 8:53 am

    Nur Ardyana should go to the civil court(as opposed to the syariah court) for redress. This is because her request for custody of children relates to her marriage at civil law, which marriage SUBSISTS AT CIVIL LAW. She or the religious authorities cannot pretend that civil law does not exist.
    Her conversion to Islam is not a ground for divorce per se under civil law (correct me if I am wrong): that is, she is not “at fault”.
    Benedict has the right to seek an injunction against Nur Ardyana, even to start another constitutional ” cause celebre ” that would bring into focus, the ambit of 121(1A).
    This type of case will be seen again and again as long as the Federal Court delays in delivering judgement on Lina Joy’s case.
    Anyway, such is my loyar – buruk take on the position of this unfortunate couple.

  26. #26 by Libra2 on Wednesday, 9 May 2007 - 9:03 am

    The silence from MIC, MCA, Gerakan and other non Muslim parties is deafening.
    If only the non-Muslims see these parties as opportunists and political chameleons. They change coulour and go into hiding when cases like this crop up.

  27. #27 by ah lau on Wednesday, 9 May 2007 - 11:51 am

    For too long, religions have been dividing peoples and providing warm beds to the few for causing cruelty to the majority who are peace loving ……..

    Each time there is a call in the name of religions, many have perished ………

    The only peaceful religion is the belief in NATURE. Nature is all gods combined. Why people invent an artificial being to control themselves ? Look around and you will witness the good efforts and resources wasted in the name of god.

  28. #28 by madmix on Wednesday, 9 May 2007 - 12:04 pm

    wife snatching; chidren snatching; corpse snatching. Dead or alive, you can be snatched!

  29. #29 by BobSam on Wednesday, 9 May 2007 - 1:17 pm

    I believe they talk behind the closed doors of the Cabinet meeting. There they raise their concerns. The PM then gets one of his running dogs to solve the issue. The system works…

  30. #30 by HJ Angus on Wednesday, 9 May 2007 - 1:36 pm

    Unfortunately humans are really weak creatures and when hurt will make use of possible religious avenues to seek revenge on their partners.

    Is it not within the Syariah court’s authority to direct the “convert” to sort out her civil problems before offering her assistance in her new religion?

    That way the dignity of both courts can be preserved.

  31. #31 by k1980 on Wednesday, 9 May 2007 - 1:47 pm

    In view of the increasing number of cases of converted spouses creating hell upon divorce, non-islamic couples intending marriage should mutually insist on having a binding clause being inserted into their marriage contract, viz the party that intend to convert to islam must first seek a divorce, settle everything with the ex-spouse and THEN only convert

  32. #32 by Ray on Wednesday, 9 May 2007 - 2:40 pm

    Rakyat…What DAP ,PKR are Genuinely Defending all the while …Our Real Democratical Freedoms ,Our Rights and Citizens with OUR HUMAN DIGNITY AND RESPECT…and for our Human Race future generation to continue our legacies …
    We are all GOD ‘s Merciful,Gracious Creations….and I said that your muslims allah could Not hv siad that Bribery Nationals Umnoputras should Simply hold own Religious freedom standard by waving their Kris to threaten OPS LALLANG to Same Human Races .
    We should all DISCARD such Faith Once for all…..Its absolutely Useless and worthless pursue…..
    Rakyats…We Must Stand in Unity Strength defend Our Freedom Againsr Umnoism Evil Onslaught and Moral Relativism and Rubbish Culture Declination …We also need to alleviate these InHumane Oppression and Sufferings So that we can walk the Streets of KL ,PJ etc …Unafraid .,”Thank God for His Mercy and Grace”.
    Finally, in our own societies we must protect and uphold voices like this above Significant case brought out -seek outBy YB KARPAL and YB KIT

  33. #33 by Jimm on Wednesday, 9 May 2007 - 3:01 pm

    What kind of values are we trying to put up here? In any religion teaching, we are seek to be harmonising any issue within or around us. Learn to accept those that we cannot change in good faith.
    Everyone’s action reflects their personal understanding. So goes, to all of us. GOD Almighty is always above all things.
    To me, the more we try to protect, the more we tends to lose out.
    The way to things is to grow in faith with what the Almighty is asking us to, be it big or small , personal or public.
    As I may share here, none of us is prefect unless we share the common space with those that have ‘kick the bucket’. Their body are so peaceful.
    The authorities will continue to keep us chasing after those cases where they found deem to arrest and detained locally. All these are common citizen. They won’t dare to keep their vow to their job to arrest any of those ‘high profile’, VVIPs and ‘related’ individuals even when there are enough evidence to act upon. One of the reason mentioned, “it’s their private life, we have to respect their decision,” Would you believe that !!!!!

  34. #34 by ctzen on Wednesday, 9 May 2007 - 7:16 pm

    The hopeless MCA and MIC are hopeless to the core. I pray that one day something like this happens to them or someone dear to them, let them feel the pain, then only will they realize that they should have voice their dissatisfaction over this issue.

  35. #35 by democrate on Wednesday, 9 May 2007 - 9:02 pm

    Are they trying to show PAS that they are more Islamic .It could be a political tricks in the expense of the non muslim. PAS on the other hands should clarify. It is too cruel and high handed of these group of religious hypocrites. i doubt it is a true teaching of this religion.

  36. #36 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 10 May 2007 - 2:52 am

    “Karpal will be applying for a declaration from the civil court to assert Benedict Gopal’s constitutional rights while in the latter case, a habeas corpus application by Magendran to free Najeera from illegal detention by JAIS authorities has been filed.”

    I hope Karpal, by doing what as a lawyer he is required to do, does not once again miss the opportunity of having the Appeals Court litigate on the matter of constitutional rights.

    He missed the last time – when he did what was best for his client but not for the rest of us – which was to compromise.

    This time it is the constitutional right of Gopal against that of his wife. Because as a Muslim she comes also within the jurisdiction of the syariah courts, she is more likely to prevail.

  37. #37 by Tai Lo Chin on Thursday, 10 May 2007 - 6:03 am

    Whether civil or Syariah courts, they should not rule in favour of opportunists. Not saying here all converts are opportunists but some whom I have come across certainly are. Like for example some (Chinese) converts told me how good and better for them that they now enjoyed bumiputra privileges. Well maybe not as extensively as those born into the religion but certainly better than rest of us second class citizens.

    This sickens me in the stomach how some people can sell their soul and dignity for such practical hypocrisy.

    I have always been a second class citizen in Malaysia but lived life first class without having to convert for bumi privileges.

    There is but one thing worse than being treated by others as second class – that is believing it yourself that you’re second class and hating your station in life for it.

    I hope you young people out there will wear your chain of oppression with dignity pride and honour. It is small minds out there doing it to you. It cannot suppress you unless you yourself look down on yourself to play by their rules.

  38. #38 by Tai Lo Chin on Thursday, 10 May 2007 - 6:37 am

    Karpal is both politician and lawyer. There lies the conflict. The course he advises as a lawyer for his client to take which is good for him may be the opposite course what an opposition politician should advocate for the good of Malaysians. Which course to take in such a conflict?

    Like the handling of P Marimuthu and his Muslim wife Raimah Bibi predicament. Maybe he thought the out of court settlement was good for Raimah Bibi’s overall interest as a mother.

    It is however not in line with the position of many of us who desire the issue fought and determined in court. Women’s Aid Organisation (WAO) director Ivy Josiah criticized the approach.

    She felt Raimah Bibi’s decision could not be entirely free from “duress” of circumstances.

    Karpal was not happy. Karpal said in a statement yesterday that there was no question of the settlement having been brought about under duress. He said Raimah Bibi confirmed the arrangement in open court.
    “I am calling upon Ivy to withdraw her statement and apologise to the judge, the Selangor legal adviser, myself, Marimuthu and Raimah” Karpal said.

    Why is Karpal doing this? Is it stress of conflict or what?

    Uncle LKS, it will be good if you impart some of your wisdom to your comrade in arms.

    Ivy Josiah and all of us are on the same side. We are the civil society fighting for a better Malaysia. Tell Karpal not to give veiled threats to those fighting on same side with pure heart. Karpal can argue his case but don’t threaten like that lah!

    You remember one time you had “an issue” with Malaysiakini’s reporting on DAP affairs. You told it off. It rebutted you. All fair and square. You didn’t threaten & ask for apology with veiled threat. Advise Karpal don’t do that to Ivy.

  39. #39 by budu on Monday, 21 May 2007 - 10:30 pm

    what next? I see UMNO having new laws where when one joins UMNO they can never leave and would be capture and rehabilitated. Where when one of the spouses joins UMNO the other must join too or else they have to ‘cerai’. Where the conceived baby, children automatically must become UMNO members. This way our country would be the first DEMO-cratic country that don’t have to hold general elections. Get my drift. So where is freedom and rights? I suggest we erase these from our dictionary and kamus so we would not make a mockery of our country’s constitution of Religious Freedom.

    For the love of GOD leave those children alone, let them make their own choices when they matured and grow up. Who are you to force religion on them. Even GOD never forced people to believe, GOD asked us to choose. GOD gave us this freedom. The goverment wants to take away these freedom.

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