Letters
by Unrecognised doctors
The Star, published an article, “Flunked doctors have a chance”, dated April 10, 2008. We were very saddened to know, that the Health Minister and the Director General of Health, have failed to understand the plight of our situation. This issue should not be treated as a platform for showing ones power or a battle of egos, or a money making scam.
Many of us have graduated from the year 1992. We all have families to support, and not having a steady income, to come up with the finances yet again for this purpose is not only near impossible but even unreasonable. Even if we are helped by the government giving us loans, for those of us who have passed and received our medical degrees over 15 years ago, to go for a compulsory course of 3 years, then sit for the final exam, only to become a houseman seems unfair and impractical. After this process, one has to slave for 2 years as a houseman, and 3 years as a medical officer, and then is eligible for permanent registration. Many of us will be near retirement age, and this proposal seems unrealistic. We seem to be getting the shorter end of the stick, and come to you for support.
We have tried in our capacity to do a post mortem of the situation, and have come up with facts and figures for your kind perusal. Please do go through it, for you to get a finer picture of our situation.
There has always been a critical shortage of doctors in Malaysia, and the Health Ministry and the Malaysian Medical Council have opted in the past and are still recruiting foreign doctors to fill in the vacancies, many of whom have their undergraduate qualifications from unrecognized universities. We are Malaysians, have a medical degree, and yet find ourselves unemployed.
Till date there are 450 qualified medical doctors in Malaysia, from unrecognized universities. Many of the doctors, disheartened by the partiality being practiced in the medical sector, have left their home country, to a foreign land only to earn a livelihood. We are qualified doctors, and yet some of us work in pharmaceutical warehouses, car sales, insurance policies, and some of us resort to selling different products to make a living. Some of us are forced to sit at home; unable to get employment, as we know no other skills apart from the skills we have been trained and qualified for. We are qualified professionals, and yet we are ‘unrecognised’.
We are in a no win situation and come to you for justice. ‘NO EMPLOYMENT’ IS ABSOLUTELY NOT AN OPTION FOR US. WE TOO HAVE HOMES TO RUN AND CHILDREN TO FEED.
#1 by HJ Angus on Tuesday, 15 April 2008 - 11:37 am
I have no solution to offer for these unfortunate souls.
But for those who are going to incur large expenses pursuing further education, MAKE SURE that your qualifications are going to be recognised in the country.
You owe that to yourself and your family to get a degree that is recognised.
#2 by Damocles on Tuesday, 15 April 2008 - 11:52 am
It seems to be a rather strange situation.
How is that that so many doctors took their medical degrees in unrecognised medical universities?
Before embarking on any course in a uni, let alone a very expensive one involving medicine, shouldn’t the intending undergraduate make very,very sure that the uni that he will be enrolling in is absolutely above board.
I think that it shouldn’t be too difficult to find out from the Education Department.
Be that as it may, the MOH is also right in insisting that only doctors from recogised unis are accepted into medical practice because they are dealing with the health of patients.
Nobody wants their health to be messed by incompetent doctors!
Perhaps, as the writer has stated in his letter they should turn to other professions for a living.
There a many who took up a specialised course of study only to end up working in other fields. And it is not an altogether bad experience.
#3 by madmix on Tuesday, 15 April 2008 - 12:06 pm
If you are say an American or Australian and you go to some uni in the Carribean or say Indonesia and get your medical degree knowing very well that the degrees are non-registrable qualifications in USA or Australia; is is right for you to go crying and whimpering to your respective governments and demand to be registered?
Every country has a right to decide what degrees are registrable in their medical register to protect the standards of medical practice. Some decisions on recognition may sound unjust, but that is the way things are. As long as that fact is made known to you BEFORE you enroll, the onus is entirely on you. If you want to take a gamble and spend time and money in an unrecognized university then you have to bear the consequences like gambling in a casino, you win some, you lose some.
I personally cannot lend my support or sympathy for such cases. You reap what you sow. You cannot try to get around the rules. I would suggest, such graduates try to get jobs in the countries where their degrees are recognized and make the most of their qualifications.
#4 by prussiablue on Tuesday, 15 April 2008 - 12:11 pm
sorry mate. As much as I sympathize with your situation I feel you have simply yourself to blame. The onus is definitely on you to make sure get admitted into a recognized medical school. If you are driven by the ‘to be a doctor at all cost’ dream then maybe is time for you to wake up. Accept this offer and move on with it. You are lucky because the Ministry actually consider this move if it was up to me I will never compromise the live of million of Malaysians at the hand of unqualified doctors period. Your letter sound like a broken record a legacy of NEP, whereby you expect everyone to sympathize with your cause and demand the world to change to adapt you. Not wise at all.
#5 by baoqingtian on Tuesday, 15 April 2008 - 12:31 pm
Please tell us why you are not recognised. I’m sure there must be a reason. A lot of people want to be doctors for reasons known best to them but then, it is not easy to be one because it involves very strict criteria. Everybody wants to see a competent and safe doctor and therefore the goverment has no choice but to scrutinise all medical graduates because they are allowed to practice safely.
#6 by KKK on Tuesday, 15 April 2008 - 1:04 pm
“There has always been a critical shortage of doctors in Malaysia, and the Health Ministry and the Malaysian Medical Council have opted in the past and are still recruiting foreign doctors to fill in the vacancies, many of whom have their undergraduate qualifications from unrecognized universities. We are Malaysians, have a medical degree, and yet find ourselves unemployed.”
Why recruit foreign doctors from unrecognized universities? The MOH owes us an explanation.
As for the writer, sorry, you just have to prove you are capable of treating patients. One of the time proven method is examinations and tests.
#7 by KKK on Tuesday, 15 April 2008 - 1:07 pm
As for the compulsory course of 3 years mentioned by the writer. If he thinks he is good enough and do not need this 3 years course, then he should be allowed to sit for the test immediately. If he passes, then he should be allowed to practice as houseman. That’s only fair.
#8 by fishhook on Tuesday, 15 April 2008 - 1:45 pm
Why in the first place did you sign up for the course in an unregcognised institution?
The MOH has every right and is responsible to determine what standards need to be met to be a practicing doctor in Malaysia for the safety of its people. This includes screening medical schools. You kept saying in your article that you are a qualified doctor but what makes you one? Qualified means you have to meet the specific requirements set by organisation/customer that you intend to serve.
Just like in the case of law graduates from foreign universities who are required to take the CLP examination to practice law in Malaysia, you just have to earn you qualification the hard way through the course and examination, or practice medicine somewhere else which recognises your qualification.
#9 by billgates on Tuesday, 15 April 2008 - 2:17 pm
Remember folks how the former Education Minister Tan Sri Musa discovered during his visit to Ukraine? Just wondering what criteria the JPA use. How about recognition for Beijing University medical degree programme?
I urge the MOHE to be transparent in this matter.
http://pakatanrakyat-perak.blogspot.com
#10 by PureMalaysian on Tuesday, 15 April 2008 - 4:04 pm
I sympathised with the letter author, but the lesson to learn is – make sure you go to a recognised university for medical degree; or else, might as well go for other disciplines!
#11 by lakilompat on Tuesday, 15 April 2008 - 5:27 pm
Is there a list of recognized Medical Universities publish by the Malaysia Government every year?
#12 by queen of all things malaysian on Tuesday, 15 April 2008 - 7:27 pm
I clearly sympathise with the author(s) of this letter.
I seriously would advocate for the government to do something about the these unrecognised educational establishments. there are a lot of private educational establishments that are currently not recognised by the government. No doubt, the government is doing the right thing in setting up standards in order to recognise the qualifications from either local or international educational establishments to practice certain professions, medicine being one of them. However more needs to be done. The government has to set up a body to identify and recognise these local and international educational establishments and publish them. I read that a lot of Malaysians tend to go for the cheaper educational establishments or destinations (and who wouldn’t, in order to get a degree). However in doing so a lot of Malaysians graduate with a degree from these educational establishments only to find that they are not recognised.
As for the author(s), I hope you will understand where the government is coming from. The medical field is a field that you don’t play around with. Unlike the IT field, where if you don’t get a degree but have the whizz-kid talent to program in Java, you are in demand. People’s lives are at stake here (I have seen how, even qualified doctors who set up clinics, prescribed wrong drugs).
Perhaps the government should re-look into its suggested options to these unemployed doctors. Maybe shorten the time frame to get recognised or qualified.
#13 by cemerlang on Tuesday, 15 April 2008 - 10:13 pm
I agree with some of the points stated here. Malaysians, do you want your body to be experimented on by some doctors who should have taken up other professions ? It is not just those who have failed but allow to re-sit for their doctoring exams again whom we fear. We also fear those highly intelligent ones because they think they know better. I think the best doctor would be one who allow you to choose after a discussion. Not that you disrespect him or her. But you just want to be sure.
The Ministry of Health seems to be in a mess and out of control. I suppose I should give the new Minister of Health some time to get adjusted to this confused situation. I hope he will adjust soon and get everything running systematically. It looks like too many programmes are running at each time and every programme seems to clash with one another. Can you blame anyone for leaving ?
Sometimes when the world recognizes us, I wonder if they recognize us for our real worth or some hidden agenda.
#14 by sheriff singh on Tuesday, 15 April 2008 - 10:36 pm
Why are these “unrecognised doctors” complaining? If you are unrecognised, you are unrecognised.
You brought it upon yourselves by going to unrecognised institutions in the first place and you now want the government to make exceptions for you and bail you all out? Why should it do so?
Stop complaining about having wasted and waiting 15, 20 years for the government to recognise you without results. If you had done something about it right from the very beginning you wouldn’t be in this predicament.
And if you had done something about it 15, 20 years ago, you would have been qualified doctors a long, long time ago.
Waiting doesn’t get you anywhere. Doing something positive for yourselves do. So stop being cry babies. The government didn’t get you into your predicaments, you all did it to yourselves. So don’t expect Santa Claus.
And if your qualifications are of high standards, you would have had no problems securing work in those countries (and elsewhere) you qualified from as every country needs doctors.
Further, you could have used your “qualifications” to register for some other specialist courses (as many do) and obtained these recognised qualifications and you would have passed by now and would be gainfully employed.
So why are you all complaining as if the government owes you something and is obliged to help you out? Start solving your personal problems.
#15 by waterfrontcoolie on Tuesday, 15 April 2008 - 10:59 pm
Education has become so commercialized that one wonders its true value,especially in countries where the level of their education has been in doubt. Putting aside medical education, I have heard of complaints by local lecturers at local private university colleges whose standard is no better than our own public universities which are interested only in producing numbers. The so-called passing mark keeps going downwards. This I was told applied too to many overseas medical schools, hence entrance requirements are kept low and many desperate parents who think that only being a doctor will bring the honor to the family would mortgage their souls to acquire such ‘fame’ to their children.
The saddest part is when the doctor ‘struggles’ to survive in the real world after his graduation. And obviously, this one of the resultant problems, trying their luck on an unscheduled school.
Of course, I am not suggesting that the Malaysian Civil services
are playing fair. They are not! but why fall into their trap? Many of them are what we called ‘ generalists’ who certainly have no qualms to thumb down those, they hardly have any love for.
To the letter writer, we can only sympathize with you. Why not try you skill overseas?
#16 by kingandcountry on Wednesday, 16 April 2008 - 12:09 am
If I were in your shoes, I would be very dissapointed with the government. Having spent so much money on education, only to be treated as second standard.
But from the view point of a middle income rakyat who will one day be depending on the public health system, I would also want to be sure that the doctors treating me are well qualified.
I think that the government should come out with a fair, standardized, entrance exam, just like done in any other country. This exam should off course consist of a written component, to test for clinical knowledge, and a practical component, to test for basic clinical skills. Should one pass the exams, one should be allowed to serve as houseman. As long as one passes this exam, one should no longer be discriminated as compared with other graduates
Otherwise, the government can recognize examinations such as PLAB or USMLE, exams that can be taken by anyone who is interested (free from the influence of the racist administraters). THis would then ensure a fair assessment for all.
#17 by ablastine on Wednesday, 16 April 2008 - 12:23 am
This is one area you cannot win. There is no point going further up this medical ladder. May as well spend your time doing something more productive like perhaps starting off becoming a small time enterpreuner. There are so many ways one can make a living and crying over this sort of things is not one of them. Be realistic. They are so many tycoons in the world who does not have medical background. You are one step ahead of them aren’t you, since now you know something about medical.
#18 by P.O.T.S on Wednesday, 16 April 2008 - 1:00 am
Why are doctors leaving…
Among so many other reasons, never forget NEP, NEP, NEP!
http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2008/04/reward-for-dilligence.html
http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2008/02/once-upon-long-time-ago-i-vowed-as-nave.html
http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2008/03/slapped-pushed-and-kicked-around.html
http://unwantedcitizen.blogspot.com/2008/03/slab-another-reason-to-slap-bn-in-face.html
#19 by seage on Wednesday, 16 April 2008 - 9:14 am
I truly sympathize the author of his predicament and it ends there.
I also agreed with most people here that medical field is one area that there are no room for compromises. This is a real case that happens to my mother. She is scheduled for regular check ups at [deleted] due to her pass record of having cancer and also accident that has cause (permanent) injury to her hip bone.
Once, the doctor told my mum to ask the family to come along for the result on the next appointment and we did so. The doctor told us that she had a cancer relapse and she’s in the final stage (5th stage?) of her cancer and may not live more than 12 months. I was deeply saddened and near devastation to receive this piece of news, not to mentioned the emotion being amplified by the look on my mum’s face when she heard the news that she is left w 12 months (or shorter) with all of us.
My mum has been plagued by this thought since then and she couldnt eat nor sleep. The doctor has scheduled her for chemo to ‘prolong’ her life but refusing to do so, I brought her to Singapore’s Mount Elizabeth (Dr Ang Peng Thiam) for a second opinion. The doc sends her for MRT scan and blood test. The results turn out negative. The doc says my mum is OK. No Cancer. No final stage. No Chemo. Surprise surprise! But heck we have to spend S$ thousand of dollars for that, was well worth it but then again, would never have been incurred should the doc in HTAA is more competent. This incident happens in 2001. My mum is still very alive and kicking now.
Another case happens in 2006 whereby another doc in [deleted] diagnosed my mum with 3rd stage cancer and arranged her for Radio theraphy in Tong Shing Hospital. Well, she has the same fear and symptoms as the first round. Not saying die, I make her come to Mount Elizabeth, Singapore again for second opinion. Lo and behold, she’s tested negative!!!
What the heck is going wrong??? Are all doctors in [deleted] incompetent?? What could such diagnosis potentially have cause the family and my mum? Imagine a healthy person going for chemo or radio theraphy? What’s wrong with these doctors??? What emotional undue stress would this have caused us? My mum is mostly depressed even now. Could this be an aftermath of those events???
YB LKS, please do spearhead the movement to reform the hospital administration. Get rid of unnecessary ‘fats’ in the public hospital management and lousy/sub-standard ‘doctors’.
How can a country flourish if such basic needs are not event met. BN is literally a pile of steaming cow dung by investing in Smart tunnels and all those mega projects and neglecting such simple needs of the Rakyat.
#20 by nckeat88 on Wednesday, 16 April 2008 - 3:33 pm
It is your stuipidity that landed you all in this mess. You all should have gone to those unrecognised univeristy. Now you want the gov to absorb you all and the rakyat to suffer the possibility of substandard care by all these unrecognised doctor. No way!
#21 by alaneth on Wednesday, 16 April 2008 - 9:27 pm
Simple, just migrate elsewhere & work – Australia, USA, Canada, NZ, HK, even S’pore is crying out for foreign Malaysian talent!!!
Talent is important in these countries, not skin color, not race, not religion.
#22 by Radiohead on Wednesday, 16 April 2008 - 9:39 pm
My advise to the write:
Go and work in a country where your qualification is recognised. Why do you still want be in Malaysia when Malaysia has it made it very clear to you that i doesnt want your skill in here. Malaysia would hire a doctor from Myanmar if there is a vital need in doctors in Malaysia. Malaysia would rather bring in doctors from Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq just to fullfill its OIC commitments but will never ever hire you eventhough you are a Malaysian. By the way, i would assume you are either Chinese, Indian or Lain Lain.
Malaysia would send a medical doctor to space instead of an expert in physics. This is the Malaysian Logic when it comes to Chinese,Indian and Lain Lain.
#23 by frustrated doctor on Wednesday, 16 April 2008 - 10:37 pm
Some of your comments are misguided .
Go and read http://www.malaysia-today.net/2008/content/view/5991/1/ for the full story and statistics .
#24 by shortie kiasu on Wednesday, 16 April 2008 - 10:50 pm
Firstly, it is not hindsight: in the first you knew the medical degrees offered by the institution you attended were not recognised, yet you are foolhardy to go ahead and hope to make a representation later, hope you fate will change for the better.
Secondly, you said you all are qualified, but 3 chances were given for all to sit for the Exam to pass the Exam in order to be recognised and accepted. But all have floundered and failed in 3 attempts, that is quite a mind boggling feat to fail in 3 attempts. It can only be assumed the failure is thorough and beyond denial any more.
Thirdly, accept the fact that if you can’t practise medicine here, then life should move on and not sitting back throwing tantrums around blaming every one except one ownself. Forget about medicine and move on to other fields, or go to the country whether your degrees are recognized.
Such sob stories are too many for people to take any sympathy or pity.
#25 by theanomaly on Thursday, 17 April 2008 - 1:09 am
really sad to hear this but why are there so many doctors from unrecognized med uni? I think it’s inevitable to sit for the qualification exam because most of the foreign countries are practicing it and it act as a gatekeeper to filter out capable dr. But i still couldn’t figure out should they go for a 3 years course training? I think the housemanship after the exam is enough though since they were trained before in med school.
Besides, to those who said compromising the live of million of Malaysians at the hand of unqualified doctors, i think the MOH is lending a hand in risking their lives as well. To those who want to see an example of a Nazi concentration camp, please go to KLGH ward 23 to have a look..
hello..MOH, wake up and do something to help the poor. Stop looking at how to minimize the cost in private hospitals. The rich can afford to foot millions for their health but not the poor people.
Do somehting to improve the health facilities in public hospital…
It’s awful…
#26 by seage on Thursday, 17 April 2008 - 11:21 am
Moderator too lazy to read my posting? awaiting moderation since yesterday morning.
#27 by seage on Friday, 18 April 2008 - 9:32 am
Moderator is sleeping
#28 by seage on Friday, 18 April 2008 - 9:33 am
are you there mr moderator??
#29 by seage on Friday, 18 April 2008 - 9:55 am
seage Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
April 16th, 2008 (2 days ago) at 09: 14.06
#30 by seage on Friday, 18 April 2008 - 5:18 pm
This old man, he plays one… he plays knick knack on my bun!
#31 by boobear on Saturday, 19 April 2008 - 6:19 am
He plays nick nack on my…THUMB. With a nick nack paddy wack, give your dog a bone… and THIS BOOBEAR comes in to talk…
Sorry to hear of the ordeal you went through, seage… At least you managed to get the 2nd opinion to over-ride the missdiagnosis.
But that’s the point, the doctor who scr**ed up at HTAA, Kuantan was a “qualified” doctor, from a “recognized” uni. We are talking of docs from “unrecognized” unis who may be “qualified” but can also be equally “competent or incompetent” as the “recognized” unis.
I’m sure we all have our horror stories to tell, regarding encounters with inept doctors. As one puts it, maybe its time to trim the fat. Well, frankly this can only happen if the Federal Govt is also under PRakyat, then YB LKS can input on selection of Doctors in hospitals, why even the selection of medical students itself.
Yet, doctors trained overseas is beyond the jurisdiction of the MOE. That’s where the “future” MOH under PRakyat can be an eagle eye on standards maintained abroad.
As for the present predicament ??? Why do students fail 3X ?? That might be explainable if we graduate as an engineer in 1992 and have to wait till 1998 to sit for your FINAL EXAM. And that too without exposure to the local lecturers who are setting the EXAM. In between you will be out of touch, changing diapers at home, bringing kids to school each day… till you really have lost touch with what you studied in your undergrad days.
On the other hand, you do have the “rich” kids who have “rich” parents (who pawn their houses) to send their kids abroad to gain a professional degree. But on returning, the kid really has no interest in his field…
Ai, yai, yai. There really is NO WIN-WIN SITUATION… At last info, only a “SMALL” fraction of the 450 took up this offer. Will it work? It’s NOW or NEVER… COME HOLD ME TIGHT… and think hard about it… It’s not just your own future but the future of the patients you treat next time…
#32 by private_undergrad on Saturday, 19 April 2008 - 4:22 pm
I think these ‘unrecognised’ doctors should be tested ASAP for their clinical competency and then absorbed into the healthcare system in the rural areas in the country especially in Sabah and Sarawak. Pay them commensurate compensations and salaries as an incentive for them to serve the public.
We are in dire need of more doctors, GPs and specialists alike. Waste no human resources and capital please. Their medical knowledge is invaluable to us ordinary Malaysians.
#33 by lopez on Sunday, 20 April 2008 - 8:51 pm
if you are one of those who were picked up and offered to take up medicine by gomen system, serve you right , it is better you change job before you prematurely involve yourself to cause some one else life and their family misery.
On the other hand, if you are truly qualified and having right aptitudes and in sound mind, there is no reason that you cannot get employed because your prospective employer would mostly likely be doctors themselves with exception at gomen hospitals where those were headed by people similar like yourself , picked and placed by those in the Bee end gomen.
It is a denial state , I have to live with it since 1970, incidentally those who sits in those big rooms at big gomen buildings are the products of those 50 years of denial and a result of their “corrective action ” made by those same type of nkp who placed all those worms into cans for 50 years , ,,please don’t dust the carpet…..you may not like what you find.
#34 by riha on Monday, 21 April 2008 - 12:36 am
if you feel that the system in Malaysia has marginalized the “qualified” doctors from Unrecognized universites,those affected should seek options elsewhere.After all countries like the US and Australia do not practice discrimination.And if you are as qualified as you claim to be ,passing the USMLE,or AMC exams should not be a problem.And after all a better future awaits you and your family.Why hang around and whine in this country hoping for the chance to practice?The goverment certainly has to practice some form of quality control when it comes to employing doctors.And also keep in mind that you went to those unrecognized universities despite knowing that it was unrecognized in the first place. gov is not obligated to accomodate such people who took the risk.All form of risk taking have consequences right?
Malaysia is one of the few countries which recognizes a huge number of foreign medical schools.Malaysia will be flooded with doctors in a year.We should take cue from other coutries like canada.With a population of about 33 million,they only recognize doctors that are trained in canada’s 16 medical schools.Due to the keen competition ,there are many canadians who opt to go to med schools in Ireland,West indies,Australia etc but they have pass very rigorous testing before being allowed to join any residency programme in canada.Although facing an acute shortage of Doctors,they have opted for a more conservative method to handle the problem which is probably ideal because they do not want the quality of healthcare to be compromised.For your information,there are many” qualified” doctors from India/pakistan/other countries who are Canadian PR’s or citizens but are not allowed to practice medicine in canada and they are driving cabs/busses etc instead to earn a living.