by Susan Loone | Aug 7, 10 11:57am
Penang Chief Minister Lim Guan Eng has today rubbished the views of MCA chief Dr Chua Soi Lek, who has portrayed Muslim countries as “poor, backward and corrupt”.
Lim (right in photo) urged Chua to learn more about the history of Islamic civilisation, whose global empires had not only contributed breathtaking art and architecture, but also the introduction of numbers, algebra and astronomy.
“Muslim countries are suffering from the same problem suffered by India and China previously.
“Only when India and China were free, independent and not dominated by imperialist powers, that they were able to realise their potential and take their place in the world stage as economic powers,” he said at International Integrity Conference 2010 today in Penang.
“I believe that Muslim nations can also recapture their past glories if they were allowed to be similarly unshackled like India and China,” he added.
Also present at the conference was Pakatan Rakyat leader Anwar Ibrahim.
Lim, who is DAP national secretary-general, said Muslim countries can excel if there was good governance just as Islam was a centre of learning, justice, and excellence under the rule of Umar Abdul Aziz.
“The choice is whether we follow the Umar Abdul Aziz’s governing model of integrity and good governance or the alternative model of corruption and dictatorship,” he added.
Middle-income trap
Lim was referring to Chua’s comment yesterday at MCA’s Annual Convention in Alor Star, Kedah (below) that both Umno and PAS used religion to strengthen their influence and win Malay support.
Chua said that when the two Malay-Muslim parties compete, the consequence was the implementation of non-progressive policies, which has resulted in the country falling into a middle-income trap over the past 10 years.
He added that Umno has become more conservative to compete with PAS in fishing for Malay votes.
Chua however stressed that he raised the issue to prod Chinese Malaysians into think twice about voting for PAS.
He said many in the Chinese community should do away with their belief that once the Islamic party is in government, the country will be free from corruption.
“Some of the most corrupt countries are Muslim majority,” he told 300 participants at MCA’s 33rd annual convention in Kedah.
Problem with Umno not Islam
Meanwhile, Lim challenged Chua to pose serious questions on two major controversies – the ‘Allah’ row and sports betting – to MCA’s political ally, Umno.
He urged Chua (right) not to ‘miss the woods for the trees’ and suggested that the MCA chief was deflecting attention from the real root of the problem – Umno.
“These issues appear to be not a problem with Muslim countries, but it is a problem with Umno. For example, sports betting is not allowed by some Islamic countries but it is allowed by Umno,” said Lim sarcastically, when asked to elaborate his views about Chua’s comments.
“The issue of (using the term) ‘Allah’ is not an issue with other Muslim countries, but it is somehow an issue here. Perhaps he is trying to distract attention that the real root of the problem is Umno. We (take issue) when he blames it on Muslim countries because I think it is wrong,” he added.
Chua was in a tight spot recently when the party’s central committee member Loh Seng Kok issued a statement urging Home Minister Hishammuddin Hussein to rescind the ban on use of the term ‘Allah’ by non-Muslims, after the latter blamed his predecessor for the controversy.
Loh was ticked off by Deputy Prime Minister Muhyiddin Yassin for playing up the issue and accused the party of ganging up with the DAP, which Chua vehemently denied.
What resulted shortly was a gag order on MCA to stop raising the issue, making it appear as if it had back-downed under Umno’s pressure.
#1 by sanir6 on Saturday, 7 August 2010 - 5:38 pm
Why dont u guys realise…most malays are racist? I am a muslim…yet I am not a malay.I not a chinese/indian or all of those though i look like a malay.Life is not easy.Malays…UMNO and PAS…use religion…as an excuse.It fires up the Malays…the uneducated ones.Education is the key towards social integration and harmony.Those in power…they just use psychological tactics to garner support.trust me.i well versed in psychology.
#2 by monsterball on Saturday, 7 August 2010 - 6:43 pm
There we go again….religion politics must be activated by UMNO B.
Bulat ex Info Min. ..Syed Albah back to his usual instigating role …being gunned down by Anwar.
Soi Lek tried to put PAS and UMNO religion politics into same group and gunned down by Lim Guan Eng….as arrogant and ignorant.
I say Syed is a useless sandman corrupted racist.
Soi Lek has always been and will always be…shameless and pointless…seeking supports and attentions…for MCA and for himself.
Muslims all over the world have one issue against Christianity….and not the word..”ALLAH”.
Only in Malaysia….this word offends hypocrites.
And why not….the need lots of ISSUES to debate to win votes.
And today’s paper headline..half a million…consisting some Datuks.Tan Sri and Tuns blacklisted from traveling overseas.
I guess most are owning to MARA…and Malays..but they kept that detail….untold.
In any case…UMNO B Malays are famous to borrow and do not repay….as MARA supports only UMNO B members children..for higher education.
All others are trained to char keow teow…make hamburgers…whatever….to earn a living…to compete with Chinese.
World political and religious leaders are advising their followers to focus on FAITH.
Only in Malaysia….the greatest Muslims of all…are defending the word…”ALLAH”…while for centuries…millions died from both religions defending the faith and not a word.
Yes…without race and religion politics..UMNO B is dead….as they are cornered to talk CORRUPTIONS….but pretend not to know.
Enjoy all the side shows.
Why take so long to announce a trail date for Liong Sik?
#3 by limkamput on Saturday, 7 August 2010 - 7:38 pm
The reality is Malaysia has allowed religion to play a dominant role in our life and today it has formed an inextricable trait of our national ethos. When religion is overwhelming, rationality gives way to dogma; knowledge gives way to religiosity and reason gives way to blind obedience. In Malaysia, religion is also particularly significant in the sense it is also associated with race. Whether we like it or not, lots of discriminations are based on one’s religion. Hence migrants from certain countries are preferred to those from others.
State sponsored religion is stupid and dangerous. Lots of policies are formulated in the name of religious doctrines that are beyond question and rational debate. Try for example debating on child marriages and you shall see what will happen.
We can all agree that the progressiveness of a nation is a function of many factors, chief among them, good governance, professionalism, meritocracy and able leadership. On the other hand, we can’t ignore the fact that to allow religion to dominate at almost every facet of our life is to move gradually but surely into one of those basket cases.
I am not a fan of MCA and I know too MCA is a party to our poor current state. But when views are presented, they merit our consideration. To summarily dismiss the views shows political dogma rather than rational thinking.
#4 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 7 August 2010 - 8:16 pm
///Muslim countries can excel if there was good governance just as Islam was a centre of learning, justice, and excellence under the rule of Umar Abdul Aziz…The choice is whether we follow the Umar Abdul Aziz’s governing model of integrity and good governance or the alternative model of corruption and dictatorship…///DAP national secretary-general.
In what way PAS spiritual leader Nik Aziz Nik Mat is different from Umar Abdul Aziz?
Isn’t our Tok Guru Nik Aziz as incorruptible and wise (to faithfuls)??? Substitute Umar Abdul Aziz by Tok Guru and LGE’s statement will sound:-
“Muslim (majority) countries like say Malaysia can also excel as centre of learning, justice, and excellence under the rule (leadership) of Tok Guru Nik Aziz…The choice is whether we follow the Tok Guru Nik Aziz’s governing model of integrity and good governance or the existing alternative model of corruption and dictatorship…”.
Could that be extrapolated as a glimpse of the new DAP’s ‘Middle’ position, a change from your traditional instance that Malaysia should be a secular pluralistic country in opposition to TDM’s 2001 declaration that Malaysia was an Islamic state?
#5 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 7 August 2010 - 8:35 pm
Its Ok you challenged Chua on two major controversies – the ‘Allah’ row and sports betting but why talk about the”history of Islamic civilisation, whose global empires had not only contributed breathtaking art and architecture, but also the introduction of numbers, algebra and astronomy” when everyone in context is not referring to civilisation more than a thousand years ago but talking about contemporary examples of predominantly Muslim majority countries of which Middle East & Africa offer plenty examples of governance based on Political Islam and their state of development?
And the statement to International Integrity Conference 2010 – “Only when India and China were free, independent and not dominated by imperialist powers, that they were able to realise their potential and take their place in the world stage as economic powers…I believe that Muslim nations can also recapture their past glories if they were allowed to be similarly unshackled like India and China”.
What is the basis of that belief? Which Muslim Country is still colonised and dominated by imperialist powers?
We are definitely independent free and not dominated by imperialist powers – like China India or even Singapore.
How come after 50 years we are still trapped in Middle Income Gap unable to realise our potential and take our place in the world stage as economic powers let alone recapture past glories?
#6 by limkamput on Saturday, 7 August 2010 - 8:53 pm
Jeffrey, expediency, expediency. I am sick and tired we all want to nice guys pandering to all the holier than thou people as if they only have the truth and no one else.
#7 by yhsiew on Saturday, 7 August 2010 - 9:52 pm
///“Some of the most corrupt countries are Muslim majority,” he told 300 participants at MCA’s 33rd annual convention in Kedah.///
It is unbecoming of Dr Chua Soi Lek to talk bad about his own country. If he knows there is corruption in the country, as leader, he must find ways to overcome it and not just criticizing.
I don’t how many Middle-East countries have been offended by Dr Chua’s arrogant remark and dropped their plans to invest in Malaysia. In the 1980s and 1990s, Mahathir frightened off Western investors with his “anti-Western” stance and now we have Dr Chua trying to chase away investors from Islamic countries. With leaders acting in such unwise manners, how is Malaysia going to attract the much need FDI ??!!
#8 by yhsiew on Saturday, 7 August 2010 - 10:06 pm
Oops!
“the much need FDI”
should be
“the much needed FDI”.
#9 by sheriff singh on Saturday, 7 August 2010 - 11:02 pm
I am surprised no one in UMNO has asked that he be stripped of his Datoship.
#10 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 7 August 2010 - 11:56 pm
The measure of our problem is seen for example in the case of child brides. It seems Malacca state government comes out with this argument: in a scenario in which underage unmarried pregnancies are increasing due to pre-marital sex leading to abandonment of infants, the argument is now put forth that the solution lies in allowing girls under 16 and also for boys under 18 to be married….
Is a girl under 16 sufficiently matured to have real consent to make decision like marriage?
The reason why statutory rape is said to be committed by a man even when a physically matured girl under 16 willingly has sex with him is because the girl’s consent is presumed not freely given when she is not matured mentally and emotionally and knows not what she is doing. Even if she were religious will that alone make her more matured beyond her 16 years for the protection of law presuming no consent to be withdrawn?
Even our Minister for Women, Shahrizat Abdul Jalil, described the decision as “morally and socially not acceptable.” Ivy Josiah, executive director of the Aid for Women Organization, a pro-human rights group, was reported to have described it as “an outrage. It ‘a return to the past, although there is ample evidence that we should not allow child marriages.”
“Return to the past” it is. We have not heard (until recently) such an argument made by Malaccan state govt. It shows the direction we’re proceeding. The concern of human rights groups is that this particular exemption will be used to coerce the girls into marriages with older men, a common practice in some Islamic countries in the Middle East like for examples Saudi Arabia or Yemen, where there is wide controversy over so-called child brides.
In Buraidah, near the Saudi capital of Riyadh Saudi Arabia we hear last year of a 11 year old girl being married against her wishes to her father’s cousin (79 years old) in an arranged marriage for a dowry of US$23,350. The father being poor literally sold the daughter.
More than a quarter of Yemen’s females marry before age 15, according to a report last year by its Social Affairs Ministry. [Tribal custom also plays a role, including the belief that a young bride can be shaped into an obedient wife, bear more children and be kept away from temptation]. But at what costs?
In September last year, a 12-year-old Yemeni child-bride died after struggling for three days in labour to give birth. In April this year a human rights group (Shaqaeq Arab Forum for Human Rights) reported a 13-year-old Yemeni girl – Ilham Mahdi al Assi – died in a hospital in Yemen’s Hajja province of internal injuries – a medical report from al-Thawra hospital said she suffered a tear to her genitals and severe bleeding – four days after a family – arranged marriage to a man almost twice her age.
The question is: are we to be a model to lead and show Saudi Arabia and Yemen that practice child brides lead to such violations of human rights or are Saudi Arabia and Yemen going to be a model to lead us towards child brides as a solution to pre-marital sex unmarried pregnancies and abandonment of infants?
#11 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 8 August 2010 - 12:23 am
And talking about India and China being “free, independent and not dominated by imperialist powers, that they were able to realise their potential and take their place in the world stage as economic powers”, I am sure it is also common knowledge that that India upholds a secular constitution and government (even if her peoples are hindu and muslims) and in the case of China, its communist, with a government that is even atheistic though many of her people are religious and pray to polytheistic gods (as distinct from the montheistic Abrahamic faiths).
#12 by sheriff singh on Sunday, 8 August 2010 - 12:24 am
Is a 7 year old Hindu girl matured enough to give consent to be converted?
Is our country leading the way?
#13 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 8 August 2010 - 12:52 am
How does want curb Paedophilia when the dirty old man (a paedophile) couches his lust under the camouflage – immunity – of ‘honourable’ intention to ‘marry’ the young girl?? Esp if the girl is (say) 9 or 10 or 11, experiences no sexual desire and will not consent willingly to the intercourse but have to submit to it as a wife…and if she does so, when her reproductive organs are not that fuilly developed gets physically mutilated and psycholgically traumatised?
But I suppose thats not relevant or important enough public issue for Pakatan Rakyat to have a consensus to raise against the Malacca state’s decision…
#14 by sheriff singh on Sunday, 8 August 2010 - 12:54 am
“Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahed claimed responsibility for the attack, saying: “Yesterday at around 8am, one of our patrols confronted a group of foreigners. They were Christian missionaries and we killed them all.”
Mujahed said the group consisted of nine foreigners – five men and four women – and an Afghan national.
They were carrying Persian-language Bibles, a satellite tracking device and maps, he added”
Sky News
They were all volunteers, Western doctors helping Afghans.
#15 by yhsiew on Sunday, 8 August 2010 - 1:01 am
Typo in #7.
I don’t how many Middle-East countries
should read
I don’t KNOW how many Middle-East countries.
#16 by limkamput on Sunday, 8 August 2010 - 8:01 am
We have caveman governing Melaka, and yet we sit by watching but do nothing. Why very little arguments were put forward? It must be this is a religious thing, am I right? If we talk a little more, we will be accused of infringing into the religion and belief of others. You know, it is sensitive; it is official and state religion.
We have enough people hiding behind the so-called constitution provisions and social contract. Now we have people hiding behind religion. So what is there for social and political discord? Don’t talk about other countries as basket case. I think we are already basket case long ago.
#17 by boh-liao on Sunday, 8 August 2010 - 11:18 am
As a result of d fabulous initiatif of Melaka CM supporting marriage n happy sex among pre-teen Muslim boys n girls, we may see a new Aisha-fashion in 1M’sia not too long from now:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007269,00.html
#18 by boh-liao on Sunday, 8 August 2010 - 11:22 am
Enjoy reading
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007238,00.html
#19 by undergrad2 on Monday, 9 August 2010 - 5:39 am
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#20 by limkamput on Monday, 9 August 2010 - 7:36 am
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#21 by dagen on Monday, 9 August 2010 - 9:04 am
[deleted]
#22 by Jeffrey on Monday, 9 August 2010 - 10:06 am
Perkasa also chided Chua’s negative portrayal of Muslim nations. Its chief Ibrahim Ali said (cryptically) “We have a secret strategy, especially for MCA in the next general election…” by which “MCA may find it difficult in future elections, especially in areas with substantial Malay electorates. – [reference : Malaysiakini’s report by Hazlan Zakaria Aug 8, 10]
So DAP & PR has a ‘friend’ in Perkasa to undermine BN’s component, MCA’s electoral chances in the next GE. You’re Ok man.
#23 by Bigjoe on Monday, 9 August 2010 - 3:33 pm
CSL and MCA betrayed their true-nature of being crude and uncouth. MCA is largely filled by people without high intellect but schooled in the practicalities of rough politics. The wealth and pagentary of their power and office merely hide the fact they are really of low-class and low-standards. They are modern barbarians.
Like all barbarians power, they eventually fail to grasp the forces of change of human progress. Their answer to change is crude and unelegant – not up to standards of what is required.