by Zaid Ibrahim
1. The call by Tengku Ahmad Rithauddeen, Chairman of The Disciplinary Tribunal, for UMNO to disband its youth, wanita and puteri wings, as part of the measures to curb corruption, has attracted much flack from the party’s senior leaders including Dato Najib Razak. Instead of brushing aside the suggestion, as is the standard response of the party when confronted with something new, they should reflect and try to understand what Tengku Din was trying to tell them. Tengku Din was exasperated with the extent of the corruption permeating the party at all levels. He was saying that the Disciplinary Tribunal alone could no longer cope with the practice and culture of corruption within the party. As a loyal party man he was trying to politely tell the party leaders that UMNO could no longer be salvaged under the present structure, and under the present crop of leaders I might add.
2. What makes it so difficult for the Tribunal to effectively carry out its functions is the selective prosecution it must practice in the discharge of its duties. Actions can only be taken if required or useful to certain top leaders. The Tribunal lacks clear mandate from the party management in dealing with money politics, UMNO’s euphemism for corrupt practice. When I was suspended for allegedly being involved in money politics, I knew that Tengku Din, although Chairman, was not involved in making the decision. Someone else in the management wanted me out. So an UMNO member will be subject to investigation and harassment if he does not belong to the right camp. Many others will escape with impunity and they can bribe the delegates as much as they want and not get the attention of the Tribunal. So even Tengku Din now realises the futility of having the Disciplinary Tribunal to deal with corrupt practice. I therefore urge Tengku Din to retire and resign from the Tribunal.
3. UMNO leaders who are critical of Tengku Din should also be mindful that they are not supposed to criticise him or the Tribunal. Look what happened to me for criticising the Tribunal and for not wanting to apologise when asked. I got suspended because they said I violated party ethics. UMNO got ethics? Well that’s the true story. So they same fate will fall on Dato Najib and his friends in the Supreme Council. They too may get suspended if they continue to criticise the Disciplinary tribunal or its Chairman.This is of course wishful thinking, as there are rules in UMNO that apply to some but not to others.
#1 by alberttye on Friday, 30 January 2009 - 6:44 pm
It is unlikely that Umno leadership will ever think before they brush aside any suggestion for improvement to a fairer system. Cronyism is already firmly entrenched in the party and any threat to their vested interest will be strongly rebuked.
On the other hand, I am amused that the more fair-minded Umno leaders appear to come from Kelantan where PAS had been in power for over 2 decades, namely Zaid Ibrahim, Ku Li and Tengku Din !
#2 by ch on Friday, 30 January 2009 - 9:31 pm
Dear All,
The current state of affairs in UMNO and perhaps a few other BN’s component parties are akin to the symptoms appearing right before the great financial meltdown which took place recently. If one were to examine the chronology of events leading to the financial meltdown, one will very quickly realize that greed and self interest had a major role to play. The situation was further exacerbated without the presence of strong system in place to govern the respective instituitions. Similarly, UMNO has been playing the same game play for many years by now and the ill effects of the play are beginning to show. The bad news is that none had the medical remedy to properly nurse and cure UMNO back to its former heydays. The issue now is not for UMNO to witch-hunt or rightly identify the person or the group of people responsible of dosing the dreaded venom into its system but to quickly adjust and settle itself into this rather new environment. Five states are now in the hands of Pakatan Rakyat and please be mindful that progressive states like Penang, Selangor and Perak which previously financially contributed much to oiling UMNO machineries. Losing them means losing the important greasing ingredients into effectively cranking a machine which had so used to it. Also, please correct me if am wrong but I felt that the current government had over the years frequently bowed to pressures of various interested parties with respect to many issues. For example, cost and labour issues that could eventually wreck havoc into our system. There was no attempt to seriously address the wage structure in this country. I do agree that industrialists require cheap foreign labour to competitively suvive and there is legitimate reason to do so and the government had agreed to such demand. But the governmwent should have been equally strict to ensure that the movement of such foreign labour are closely monitored. Their social needs had to be catered to. And to ensure that they ultimately leave the country as soon as their work permit had expired or services no longer required. Due to an inefficient data recording and weak monitoring system, Malaysia is now burdened with an illegal migrant population that could one day explode right into our faces.
Dr. M should query himself on how he could have visioned 2020 and Malaysia joining the ranks of the developed nations when the minimum wage remains at RM350 per month! Also one has to be prepared and ready for the downside and the upside will care of itself. However, many are not very convinced that Malaysia is prepared for any further downturn of its economy. Recent events in flip-flopping in major projects like the East LCCT, privatization of IJN, etc.etc. suggested that an unsteady pair of hands at the top and the lack of discussion by the government think tank. When there is so little thought is given to such projects, do you think there are deeper thoughts given to the tackling of the financial tsunami hitting the global market and its impact on Malaysia? What we hear are usual rhetoric uttered by politicians to suit the ears of the public like giving priority of employing local over foreigner workers, increasing government spending, decreasing bank interest rates, etc, etc. Are they any thoughts or considerations given to the real impact on the country’s economy of such measures? What are the numbers involved and the time frame? Where are the resources, both financial and human to see through the implementation of such measures? Who are the members of the government think tank? Do they have the required expertise and know how to effectively combat and shepherd us out of this financial mess should it happen? Having said the above, of course Malaysia is not alone in this aspect. There are many countries and government across the world who are performing worse than Malaysia. Do we comfort ourselves by comparing with our weaker counterparts or do we measure our performance against the top performers?
Similarly, what Zaid Ibrahim is voicing out now is something has been there within UMNO for years and no one had been capable to stop the rot. The past UMNO leaders could have reared a small devil to scare the weaker bunch but now the devil had turned itself to a very big and uncontrollable devil which may eventually eat or kill his master. We should not blame Pak Lah as he was trying to tame the devil which was reared by somebody else. We all know Pak Lah is about to surrender and leave the devil scene. However, the new comer must not be pacifying the crying devil.
#3 by veddy.lum74 on Friday, 30 January 2009 - 10:40 pm
a lot of malays initially thought that UMNO is robinhood,but when thy realised later that most of the scholarships,funds ,projects,APs,licenses,shares,privilleges,go to UMNO-ELITES and their cronies,that’s the reason why their votes diminished!
our country’s current leaders like md md taib,ali rostam,tengku adnan,rafidah,nazri,khairy,bung mokthar,pasir salak mp,hamidi,syed hamid,najib,muhidin,hishamudin,shahrir,badawi,noh md,md nor,…….should retire from politics and take their ill-gotten gains to dubai,live like a king there,just keep their fingrs crossed so that israel wont combat to that area!
#4 by ktteokt on Friday, 30 January 2009 - 10:44 pm
That is why there are BUMIPUTRAS and UMNOPUTRAS! They belong to different classes with different treatments!!!!
#5 by homeblogger on Friday, 30 January 2009 - 10:52 pm
alberttye Says:
On the other hand, I am amused that the more fair-minded Umno leaders appear to come from Kelantan where PAS had been in power for over 2 decades, namely Zaid Ibrahim, Ku Li and Tengku Din !
==================================
Could it be that this is the difference between leaders from Kelantan (PAS) and other states? After all (Hudud aside), I look at how Nik Aziz lives in a simple house and how the UMNOputras built palaces for themselves and the stunning difference in humility and arrogance + greed is like night and day.
Perhaps this is the very reason why we should NOT be afraid of PAS running the country.
#6 by gofortruth on Friday, 30 January 2009 - 10:55 pm
Well said but do you think Pak Lah and Najib will take heed?
Look at the way the new MACC is going about, one can’t help but sense the same stench of “selective prosecution” being carried out. Primary targets to watch are those who are suspected to defect & those who are not toeing the line.
What we need is a new Federal Governemnt formed by PR to clean the mess in every governmental machinery.
#7 by waterfrontcoolie on Friday, 30 January 2009 - 11:07 pm
Now that the WARLORDS have themselves entrenched in the hierarchy, there is no way logic can prevail. And many of the warlords are the DHs who had nothing to contribute to the party except their votes; the Zakarias, the Rahims, the One-eyed Customs basher.
All such characters came into power under the regime of the super-ego who, given the power he had then, could have had steam-rolled them; but he didn’t, because such characters are needed to create fears and commotions whenever it met his strategy.
Poor Tengku Din, I believe, he had made up his mind to leave; he had indeed given up hope!
AAB inherited a set-up which he wanted to change in the begining; somehow given the mandate he chicken out. Maybe the expected out come was too frightening even for him ; because too many vested interests would be exposed! Of course the simpler and acceptable route was to follow the trodden path!! In the process, his and his family’s interests would not be threatened.
Conclusion:It is quite IMPOSSIBLE for UMNO to change from the inside!!
#8 by One4All4One on Friday, 30 January 2009 - 11:24 pm
Life is but a stage, so goes the cliché.
If life is a song, sing it.
If life is a play, play it.
However, if the song or play is to be anything at all, the lyrics or plot must be interesting, sensible, sustaining, substantial, intelligent, etc., etc. if it is to attract the attention of a discerning audience at all.
What is playing out in our political scene is indeed choked with plots, sub-plots and counter-plots. Narrowing it down to BN’s play, and then further focusing the lenses on UMNO’s own side-show, one could not help but to be amazed by the current crop of unlikely cast and crew and the mind-boggling story lines.
Some good old scripts which are the mainstay of the play are still there for all to see. However, their wisdom and intended direction are twisted to suit the whim and fancy of the new directors, crew and cast.
In the new plots and sub-plots, villains are made out to be heroes and champions. True and sincere souls have no place to call their own. Some are more equal than others, depending on the colour and stripes one carries. Reminder of “The Animal Farm”.
Different demands and requirements are applied to different players depending on which hero or champion one subscribes to or the tune of the songs one sings. Rewards and punishment meted out depend on the score one manages to secure.
As in any “desirable” play, it is hoped that in the end the good will prevail over the evil.
That’s the kind of movie ending Malaysians are more accustomed to. But, it is still too early to tell how the current play would end. Only time will tell. We just have to keep on watching and surmising.
That is if one can stomach the unexpected, the illogical, the greed, the unthinkable, the mediocre, the shocking, the whatever that is to unfurl before us.
#9 by wanderer on Friday, 30 January 2009 - 11:49 pm
This is UMNO’s culture, “DOG EATS DOG”… while the dogs get hurt,the masters sit by the side and enjoy the show.
#10 by monsterball on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 12:55 am
All the men and women who value truths and dignity .. and are still in UMNO..for the love of the party…should read Zaid and Tengku Ahmad’s comments.
Ask yourself…why do they speak like this…for the country or for themselves?
Thee is no doubt in my mind…these are the true sons of Malaysia.
Like good parents….if you have a son or daughter that is a gangster with so much power….keep destroying innocent Malaysians future…including your very own..other..good children and young relatives……you need to be harsh and dare to destroy him..to save millions.
As such….those who love UMNO must dare to resign or destroy UMNO…as the real UMNO created by our beloved Tunku Abdul Rahman..was destroyed by Mahathir..30 years ago. The present one…is an impostor…designed to fool Malaysians and to enriched few…and these crooked con men gangsters can never change.
#11 by dawsheng on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 4:11 am
Well, you know the saying every dog has his day.
#12 by Loh on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 4:26 am
UMNO has been applying double standards everywhere, in party or government. Even in logics, TDM would use the same argument either for or against a regulation. For example, TDM set up the quota qualification for party election when it suited him after 1987. He declared that the regulation was bad when he was worried that nobody would be able to compete against AAB for UMNO presidency.
It was bad enough for double standards in UMNO. But that double standard becomes a norm in all spheres of life, be it in university admission, employment and implementation of government policies and law enforcement.
Even if UMNO is dissolved, that culture of double standards lives on in government, and in the society as well when the mindset of the people, particularly the bumiputras had been so moulded. Nevertheless, dissolving UMNO would help to rebuild this Bolehland, tough it would be, no doubt.
#13 by computation on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 4:27 am
we need a strong malay population.
it is in every malaysians interest to see the malays
strong and able to stand own their own two
feet. to be able to compete succesfully with the best in the
world. this will raise their dignity more than any
NEP can ever hope to do. malaysia needs vigilant, capable
honest, fair minded, tolerant malays who
speak out against any acts of wrong doing by fellow malays.
the other races who speak out against injustices committed
by malays will get slammed. thus it is the just malays who must
speak out. unless they do so nothing can be acheived.
it is in everyones interest to see the rise of a strong malay
population. and the other races should do their best to
help along. the malays need to be humble and learn. they cannot
be “tuans” just by saying that are tuans.
they need to show they are indeed high achieving.
the malays should ask themselves how many of their
people can compete successfullu OUTSIDE of malaysia
on their own merits. again this is a “sensitive issues”
for heavens sake. grow up. we are all waiting for you
to do so.
are indeed
#14 by computation on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 4:30 am
i suggest that anwar ibrahim
be shown to have been totally
uncorrupt whilst he was in umno.
it would be double faced for him
to lead the opposition if he has been corrupt.
#15 by dawsheng on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 4:33 am
“Tengku Din was exasperated with the extent of the corruption permeating the party at all levels. He was saying that the Disciplinary Tribunal alone could no longer cope with the practice and culture of corruption within the party. As a loyal party man he was trying to politely tell the party leaders that UMNO could no longer be salvaged under the present structure, and under the present crop of leaders I might add.”
Kaput!
#16 by monsterball on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 7:00 am
UMNO can never change.
They are experts to twist and turn from a difficult situations.
#17 by chengho on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 7:38 am
zahid,
like 1987 dissolve UMNO ( baru 1) , down sizing and set up UMNO ( baru 2 ) phase 2 ,just like they did to LDP and Congress.
#18 by ctc537 on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 8:01 am
That there is such a state of affairs exists in UMNO is not surprising at all. Everything has to come to an end. UMNO and BN are no exceptions. Still, there are people who think that they are the special ones and are above God.
#19 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 8:28 am
Waat up???
#20 by Bigjoe on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 9:30 am
Seriously, destruction of UMNO will be cathartic and creatively the best thing for Malays and this country…
#21 by sotong on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 9:31 am
” malaysia needs vigilant, capable, honest, fair minded, tolerant malays ” – computation.
True Malaysian of all races in position of power, trust and influence, not just Malays!
#22 by Godfather on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 9:59 am
How can selective prosecution end when it is endemic in the ruling party ? It is not just selective prosecution within UMNO; it is everywhere, from the AG’s Chambers to the MACC to the PDRM.
There is only one solution, and readers here generally know what that is.
#23 by bystander on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 12:02 pm
this cancerous disease called money politics within umno is terminal. the only way to get rid of it is to disband umno. money politics and umno is a symbiotic relationship
#24 by queequeg on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 12:08 pm
UMNO is still in denial. Even when warned by the elders, they still refused to acknowledge the bitter truth. Their party is in decline and there’s no way on earth to rectify it without making difficult choices. No one in the party is willing to act on Tengku Din’s recommendation.
Go ahead and sink, UMNO. You will not be missed.
#25 by k1980 on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 1:07 pm
The recession may cause umno to collapse
Governments across Europe tremble as angry people take to the streets
From The Guardian, Saturday 31 January 2009
France paralysed by a wave of strike action, the boulevards of Paris resembling a debris-strewn battle?eld. The Hungarian currency sinks to its lowest level ever against the euro, as the unemployment ?gure rises. Greek farmers block the road into Bulgaria in protest at low prices for their produce. New ?gures from the biggest bank in the Baltic show that the three post-Soviet states there face the biggest recessions in Europe.
#26 by mohd ali ismail on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 1:11 pm
YB Lim,
I cant help but stay back to read your comments on Rithaudeens plea for UMNO to restructure itself or face further setbacks in their struggle to bring back the glory they have been enjoying before the tsunamy of 2004. Rithaudeen is perceived to be weak but let me tell you, that,that man is a man of not too manny words,so, whatever he uttered or say has substance,only that he cant express or put them in a proper perpective for people to undestand .Believe me,those people in UMNO will not heed to his advice and will continue with thei arrogance and with whatever they want to do which will eventually bury themselves in deep termoil and controversies that remedy would be imposibble.UMNO will then be beyond repair and PKR will just walk in the next General Election if not sooner.
#27 by One4All4One on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 1:12 pm
It is all about INTEREST, my friends, and about POSITIONING to get the cream and the major portion of the loot. Nothing more , nothing less.
It is also about SOCIAL STANDING, TITLES (imposing ones, to be sure), SELF-EMPOWERMENT ( not the kind of empowerment that self-improvement gurus tell us )… etc., etc. (pls help fill the gap for all to know ).
Selfishness is at its height here in Malaysia. So preposterous and starkingly obvious that even the blind could see, the deaf could hear, and the numb could sense.
Playing to the gallery to get voted into positions in political parties and even buying into them and have no shame and guilt over them seem to be the order of the day. What sort of leaders can one expect to come out of such kind of lowly and unthinkable manner?
Crooks, opportunists, criminals, laggards, morons, gangsters, devils, manipulators, scums, and whatnots who have no qualms about using underhand and unscrupulous tactics and who do not subscribe to lofty principles or do not have any honour at all would end up in the high offices.
It is really that frightening and disturbing.
People who would do anything to gain positions to enrich themselves at whatever social costs or repercussions. They do not have any sense of social responsibility or real knowledge about accountability, integrity, responsibility. What will become of our dear country? Everyone should shudder!
Leaders of political parties who also go on to lead the nation cannot be the concern of the parties or its members alone. ALL Malaysians should be concerned and should have a say in it.
There must be a collective WILL to come up with drastic moves to right what’s wrong. We just cannot sit quietly by and let the nation rot before our very own eyes.
Politicians are NOT everything. They cannot go on behaving as if the nation owe them for a living, WE DON’T by the way. They do, instead, owe the rakyat the position they are holding.
The rakyat must make their voices heard loud and clear. The so-called leaders must do what the rakyat want. Having said that, of course good sense among the rakyat must prevail at all times.
Sensible rakyat makes sensible elected representatives.
Let’s not be played out by those out to gain positions who would later on exploit and manipulate situations for their own ends. Let’s put a stop to such senselessness.
#28 by kerishamuddinitis on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 1:37 pm
It looks like we are cursed to forever consider everything in terms of race. And when race is mentioned it appears that we must first accept that we need to be ever so gentle by first acknowledging the ‘special position’ of the Malays. So, even in considering how our country can go forward, we must first consider the ‘disadvantaged’ position of Malays, rectify whatever their shortcomings and weaknesses are, be they real or otherwise, before we can even think about policies and strategies that will strengthen this country and nation. It appears the reality facing all of us is that a ‘weak Malay population’ will therefore weaken the country as if Malaysia is only populated by Malays. If this is the accepted thinking, no wonder even the Pakatan Rakyat has to knuckle under demands to ensure key positions in the state government bodies MUST be headed by a Malay. Are we headed for the same ‘ketuanan melayu’ thinking under a different banner? Otherwise, how can a Mentri Besar be battered down to accept within a month’s tenure of his chosen condidate to change from Chinese to a Malay?
To all our Malay brethren reading this, can we not call ourselves simply Malaysians and rise above the need to identify everything with race? Must Malaysia = Malays? Or can Malaysia = Malaysians?
If we can, than is it not time for us to reject thinking that treats key senior positions in the public sector as the exclusive monoploy of the Malays? If you accept this, then you must press your leaders to change their thinking. The fact is, very few non-Malays are joining the public sector. This will only change if the thinking changes to treat all as Malaysians and not by race.
#29 by computation on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 1:59 pm
who has ever disadvantaged the malays anyway?
that is a very important question. the british colonials?
or the chinese? whatever the case note that
it has already been more than 45 YEARS since independence
and the malays have held political power since then.
the chinese have disadvantaged the malays? i think not.
this “sensitive issue” has to be dealt with.
#30 by computation on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 2:02 pm
malaysians are getting sick of corruption and double standards.
it is imperative that the leaders in the next government be clean.
the thing that is worrying is whether or not anwar himself
has not been corrupt. no point in change of government
if we still have corrupt leaders. NO POINT AT ALL.
and that now is the question people should ask.
i wonder whether the children of these corrupt “leaders”
approve of the actions of their parents. if my parents
were to be corrupt i would feel the shame burning. disgusting!
#31 by computation on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 2:07 pm
how sickening to see in the papers of
“leaders” celebrating chinese new year.
they look so comfortable and so at ease.
i wonder if plundering th country and ruining
it with their incompentence lies
easy on their conscience. if i had such parents
i would disown them straight away. if i had
corrupt relatives i would turn them it straightaway.
malaysians better deal with this corruption nonsense.
the idiotic macc can’t be relied on. hell you can’t even rely
on the police force.
#32 by Justin Cho on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 4:02 pm
Ahmad Ismail is a free man. Latest report, no action to be taken against him.
#33 by sotong on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 4:30 pm
Our country needs good, capable and courageous leaders…..for far too long, we have the blind leading the terminally blind running the country!
#34 by taiking on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 5:46 pm
Ai yah Zaid. We oredi know lah. Actually not just double standard and double face. Many standard and many face ah. And lagi best, recyclable and reusable faces. Who dont know. Only they believe we all dont know. Only they think we all stupid. We oredi showed them we not stupid in 308. We showed them again in PP and KT. But they still think we all stupid one. Really hoh dont know who stupid. They think melayu all stupid one. They think hoh they umnoputra all very clever. Can bluff melayu easily. But look. KT melayu dont believe them. Can see my meaning or not? Majority peninsular melayu all got education one also rejected them ah. Like that also still dont get the picture. Now picture oredi seep inside the wall. Still want to bluff. Pretend pretend all the time. Say only. Always wait until big erection come then say this that. Then promise many many things. Then wait until next big erection only do some. To show got do things maa.
#35 by Ling Mazen on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 6:00 pm
What are ghosts?
“Ghosts are people who have died;
(Umno)People are ghosts that have not died yet!”
#36 by monsterball on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 8:23 pm
Right now…Perak have endless problems.
UMNO man resigned and joined PR..willingly.
Najib is suspected to snatch two from Anwar’s camp..through bribing.
Best..is to call for a State election…..and settle it…once and for all.
UMNO could not care less. They can keep stealing money from Malaysia….one way or another.
PR have to weight all the pros and cons…before using valuable donations. I am sure….they love to go for a snap election…but right now..still one more majority to rule the State.
UMNO needs to snatch and bribe are signs of desperate people.
Never in the history of UMNO…one can see such low class with no dignity and principles in life…UMNO leaders.
#37 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 9:45 pm
“Only they think we all stupid.’
The privilege of power i.e the power to think others are stupid, and you are smarter. It has its uses and its abuses. You can only do so much. Soon reality will catch up. Those who think others are stupid themselves become what they think others are.
But wait a minute! It does not end there. The cylce goes on – unbroken.
#38 by yhsiew on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 9:52 pm
Selective Exoneration?
=================
Malaysiakini website reported that the missing of the 2 Perak excos was probably linked to their imminent defection to UMNO. They are supposed to attend a court hearing on 10 February 2009 over their alleged corruption.
Osman Abdul Rahman of PKR Perak said Najis might be enticing them to join UMNO by exonerating them from all corruption charges as reward.
PKR believe the two men had been framed by UMNO in their alleged corruption.
#39 by anna brella on Saturday, 31 January 2009 - 10:17 pm
Speaking idiomatically of…er….dogs.
I think the UMNO/BN class-A political animal does not have a dog eat dog culture.
Although it has clearly gone to the dogs and made a dog’s dinner of the nation’s governance (and so should have been put it in the dog-house by the People a long time ago) the dysfunctional spaniel like behavioural disorder afflicting its top dogs has led to the sick as a dog culture amongst its under-dogs of not dog eats dog, but one of…er….dog doesn’t eat dog.
But perhaps one can now live in some hope that in the now ensuing dog-fight within its ranks for the tail to wag the dog, the UMNO/BN sly dogs of war will chase one’s tail, go to the dogs and die like a very sick dog.
As I do not in any way wish to cast aspersions on, or malign, that other truly wonderful creature of God which shows some of us foolish humans a good example of unconditional love, I apologise sincerely and unreservedly to all the wonderful, lovable members of the classy, canine family species called DOG, and who are truly and deservedly known as man’s and woman’s best friends. Smile.
“Imagine Power To The People” John Lennon.
#40 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 1 February 2009 - 7:56 am
Reposting : Reference t o yhsiew’s posting Yesterday at 21: 52.09, it is interesting to hear (from The Malaysia Insider’s report) that DAP & PAS voiced their support for an anti-hopping law – subject to constitutional amendment of Article 48(6) [disqualifying a resigning MP for 5years] in order to allow such an MP, intending defection to seek a fresh mandate of rakyat from by – election.
However PKR is conspicuously silent in its support as this will foil Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim’s plans hatched in recent months to orchestrate mass defections (even without Article 48(6) amendment) to topple BN government – which raises the question whether you guys – DAP & PAS in PKR – are going to break ranks with PKR, if Anwar does not go along with the idea of PR supporting BN to get 2 /3 majority to amend 48(6) to pave the way for the anti-hopping law proposed by senior BN members, including Umno vice-president Tan Sri Muhyiddin Yassin and Datuk Seri Panglima Joseph Pairin Kitingan?
Senior BN members propose it because BN is at its weakest now – that political defections from it, as in Nasarudin Hashim’s case, can spread leading to its earlier toppling.
In this time of confusion/disorientation, BN needs to buy some time to get their act in order as to how best to deal, neutralise Anwar’s threat. So for now they hit back with the same tactic.
It cuts both ways as both can play the game in which the incumbent has certain advantages of leverage, whether in terms of financial resources or positions or (as highlighted in this thread) by selective application of MACC law ie. Immunity from prosecution to offer by way of enticement/exchange!
If Malaysiakini report of 2 Perak excos imminent defection to UMNO were true, PR would emerge for the time being worse of in this game with one gain (Nasarudin Hashim) against two losses (Jamaluddin and Mohd Osman).
This is the test of principle versus expedience/ opportunism, ideal versus pragmatism: whether DAP/ PAS within PR will stand for democratic principles in support of BN’s anti-hopping law even if the very anti – hopping law runs counter against Anwar/PKR’s campaign to evict BN and occupy Federal seat earlier by galvanising en-masse political defections from BN!
#41 by Bigjoe on Sunday, 1 February 2009 - 11:08 am
Can’t believe people think this is possible. If UMNO takes in these guys and the charges are dropped, the cost to UMNO is NOT worth it. If those two guys buy the promises, they deserved to be locked up!!!
#42 by Godfather on Sunday, 1 February 2009 - 11:39 am
The crapshooter asks:
“… which raises the question whether you guys – DAP & PAS in PKR – are going to break ranks with PKR, if Anwar does not go along with the idea of PR supporting BN to get 2 /3 majority to amend 48(6) to pave the way for the anti-hopping law proposed by senior BN members…”
The question does not arise. If PKR is silent on hudud, and DAP doesn’t break rank with PKR over this issue – which is perhaps much more critical to the “ideals vs pragmatism” debate – then why should DAP break rank with PKR over the issue of cross-overs ?
Just so that the crapshooter doesn’t think that I have the “anything goes” mentality, let me say that I am in favour of the anti-hopping law so long as article 48(6) of the constitution is amended. What are the chances of UMNO agreeing to this ?
#43 by limkamput on Sunday, 1 February 2009 - 12:02 pm
This is the nation of expediency. We talk about anti hopping law when it is expedient to do so not because we really need it as a matter of principle. Just like UMNO quota system was introduce not to preserve democracy or to prevent the split in the party but to ensure victory of incumbents.
Now, when we talk about hudud or Islamic state, the same attitude prevails. It is about pragmatism versus idealism but we forget today pragmatism will be tomorrow Achilles heel. For durable solution, we must do things based on principles not expediency or pragmatism. Another name for expediency and pragmatism is hypocrisy.
#44 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 1 February 2009 - 12:45 pm
First of all, the expression ‘break rank’ does not immediately mean break coalition, though it may or may not eventually constitute a part of larger or more deep seated differences leading to that.
‘Break rank’ means, in the context it is used here, to depart from the position taken or to be taken by the party/person having authority, real or symbolic, whether legal or moral, over a coalition like Pakatan Rakyat, which in this case is its defacto leader Anwar Ibrahim, the Opposition Head.
This will happen, for example, if the Barsian Nasional initiates an amendment of article 48(6) of the constitution and bill for anti-hopping law in Parliament that Lim Guan Eng (DAP)/PAS’s spokemen are, on record, supporting as a matter of principle, and which Anwar’s campaign/strategy past year to earlier topple the BN by crossovers/political defections is inconsistent with.
Here a decision will have to be taken by Pakatan Rakyat whether its MPs are going to oppose/support the bill unanimously or differently (in sense PKR is against, DAP/PAS for the BN’s bill, in the process breaking rank from Anwar’s position).
To argue, as Godfather does, that (in his words) “PKR is silent on hudud, and DAP doesn’t break rank with PKR over this issue – which is perhaps much more critical to the ‘ideals vs pragmatism’ debate” is a false argument because this hudud issue, does not – at least for the moment – unlike the instance of the anti-hopping law, if it were introduced by BN, require a position to be taken in Parliament on how to vote on the part of PR’s MPs, so the question of comparing Hudud with ani-happing law for purposes of deciding whether to break rank on the part of PR’s MPs does not even arise for comparison!
And by the way, Godfather’s calling me a ‘crapshooter’ does not camouflage his own flagrant crapshooting tendencies and ways!
As for the other point raised by Godfather – on “What are the chances of UMNO agreeing to this (ie pushing for anti-hopping law)? – this issue is uncertain at this moment but cannot be discounted altogether if reports by The MalaysiaInsider that “senior BN members, including Umno vice-president Tan Sri Muhyiddin Yassin and Datuk Seri Panglima Joseph Pairin Kitingan” are in favour of this were true.
#45 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 1 February 2009 - 12:50 pm
Sorry, typo errors rectified in capitals – “comparing Hudud with ANTI-HOPPING law”….
#46 by Godfather on Sunday, 1 February 2009 - 12:53 pm
Alamak, this crapshooter is talking nonsense again. Would MCA or MIC break ranks with UMNO in a parliamentary vote ? Would DAP/PAS break rank with PKR and be the fodder for BN propaganda ?
The possibility is there, but the probability is low. Just go get a crash course in probability theory.
#47 by Godfather on Sunday, 1 February 2009 - 12:55 pm
Understand the relationship between Kit, Tok Guru and Anwar, and then you will understand the motto of the three musketeers.
#48 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 1 February 2009 - 1:01 pm
To compare DAP/PKR/PAS differences voiced publicly over Hudud (that does not require a voting in parliament over the issue) with DAP/PKR/PAS differences over the Anti-Hopping law issue (which, if introduced by BN, requires a voting in parliament over the issue) and to argue that if the more major first set of differences does not lead to breaking rank how could the latter is of course a clear case of illogical thinking that does not require a logician like Lee Wang Yen to point out….However seeing the wrong connection – and barking up the wrong tree appears the natural voice of he who capshoots, almost by mental reflex, by calling others so. :)
#49 by Godfather on Sunday, 1 February 2009 - 1:03 pm
Anyway this thread is all about UMNO and their treatment of corruption, so let’s now mix cross-overs and principles into this.
#50 by Godfather on Sunday, 1 February 2009 - 1:03 pm
oops…” let’s NOT mix…..”
#51 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 1 February 2009 - 1:18 pm
//Would MCA or MIC break rank with UMNO in a parliamentary vote ?// – why are you comparing whether PAS/DAP will break rank with PKR over anti-hopping bill? Are you suggesting PAS/DAP are in principles of same moral fibre as MCA or MIC that you condemn incessantly?
And what has “relationship between Kit, Tok Guru and Anwar, and then you will understand the motto of the three musketeers” got to do with the point under discussion which is how to reconcile the differences when:
· Anwar’s position on canvassing BN defections appears inconsistent with purpose of anti-hopping law;
· Anwar’s position cannot then be reconciled with Lim Guan Eng’s position supporting the anti hopping law, which I must assume is also DAP/Kit’s position;
‘ to abide by Anwar’s position when it comes to vote in parliament against anti hopping legislation is to contradict and back pedal on Lim Guan Eng/DAP’s position in its support?
Are you trying to whitewash these differences or say Guan Eng does not need to be consistent with what he said or trying to dismiss the significance of these differences if the issue of anti hopping is required to be voted upon in Parliament?
Are you always trying cover up real differences afflicting the PR camp and avoid calling a spade a spade or are you making a special effort today on this?
#52 by katdog on Sunday, 1 February 2009 - 6:07 pm
Talking about the anti hopping law. I think BN is in a bind on this just the same as PR. On one hand it needs people to hop in order to have any chance of regaining states like Perak.
With the current sentiments generally against the BN, i doubt BN would like to risk any further by-elections that might further test their actual support from the voters. Therefore, i doubt they would support any anti hopping law except only if they are convinced that Anwar may actually take over the government.
the UMNO goons still control many things in these country and have more resources to ‘persuade’ people to jump. An anti hop law at this moment would appear to be more disadvantageous to BN than PR.
#53 by Loh on Sunday, 1 February 2009 - 7:11 pm
///KUALA LUMPUR: Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi said today several Pakatan Rakyat elected representatives in Perak would cross over to Barisan Nasional soon.///— http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Sunday/NewsBreak/20090201122005/Article/index_html
This is most interesting. It says that AAB does not believe in anti-hopping law since he is actively encouraging hopping, and was very proud to announce his achievements.
The two missing PKR EXCOs of Perak were charged in court for corruption. They are also the two persons said to be missing and waiting for as what AAB said to be signed over. The reason why UMNO chooses candidates who have been charged for corruption in court was because they have proven to be susceptible to corruption, and are therefore qualified as UMNO members.
It was said that BN offers RM 10 million as the going rate of hopping. Would this be classified as corruption since MACC chief declared that money politics in UMNO was corruption?
The two PKR EXCOs could not be so stupid as to accept cash in the manner they were conveniently arrested by ACA. If that was a frame up, what was needed was for publicity, and trading could begin. The two EXCOs were selected for the crisis.
Since the two EXCOs had not been able to fight, like Anwar did, we understand why they have agreed to ‘cross-over’. But they can at least resign the position in the state assembly, after crossing over. Keep the money, and let there be a BUY-election again in Perak. It is at least a revenge for being framed up.
#54 by Loh on Sunday, 1 February 2009 - 8:24 pm
///Feb 1, 09 7:38pm
BREAKING NEWS! Perak state assembly speaker V Sivakumar said he had received the letters of resignation from the two PKR state representatives at about 5.45pm today.///– Malaysiakini
So two Buy-elections are coming.
#55 by ttc on Sunday, 1 February 2009 - 10:28 pm
Hmm, just sitting here wondering very curiously why the UMNO/BN turkey would want to table or support this proposed vote for Christmas to come early?
WE SAY YEAH! & NO TO ISA! :) AND HARIS FOR AG & RPK FOR IGP! GO FOR DSAI FOR PM & LKS FOR DPM & KIND WAN AZIZAH FOR HOME MINISTER.
2009 Resolution: Seek out all garbage and recycle or dispose post haste for a healthier life and planet!
#56 by cemerlang on Monday, 2 February 2009 - 12:40 am
Heaven is a place on Earth and that heaven is Malaysia considering all the Islamic ways of life that have been imposed into the lives of each and every Malaysian. Pray 5 times a day and before after any occasion. Fast once a year. Pay your tithes. Slaughter the cow. Make the religious pilgrimage. Cover your skin. Eat halal food. Do not point with your index finger because it has something to do with Allah and not so much about accusing others. Don’t use your left hand to give something away because it has something to do with Satan and not so much about being rude. And the list goes on. But…
#57 by Loh on Tuesday, 3 February 2009 - 11:19 am
///Malaysiakini Team | Feb 2, 09 4:28pm
updated 5.49pm Both have issued statements at two separate press conferences but with the same message – that they have not stepped down as state representatives.///
///He (Perak DAP Chief) says the PKR duo cannot retract their resignation letters and must now step down, as events have been set in motion for by-elections in their state seats.MORE
Absence of date on letter ‘irrelevant’
‘Valid’ unless they say it is a forgery’ ///
///Hafiz Yatim | Feb 2, 09 1:53pm
As BN and PKR brace themselves for possible by-elections in Perak, Malaysiakini learns there is a likelihood that the matter could be first referred to the courts instead of the ballot boxes.MORE
Lawyer cites Eusoff Chin’s decision in 1991
No anti-hopping law poses a problem ///
I hope lawyers will have their say on this.
To me, the letter says what it suppose to mean, and so a letter of resignation would mean that the person who signs the letter indicates his intention to resign. Would the court consider whether the letter was signed at gun-point? Would a letter signed like a promisary note be taken as signature under duress, or just part of a promise, in writing to undertake actions agreed verbally.