Nasharuddin berkata dasar perjuangan PAS yang berpaksikan Islam menuntut dakwah diterapkan kepada semua yang masih belum memahami apa itu Islam yang sebenar.
“Kalau kita boleh bersekutu dengan DAP yang menentang Islam dari dulu sampai sekarang dan dengan PKR, mengapa kita tidak boleh dekati Umno?
This is from a Bernama report on the speech by the Deputy PAS President Nasharudin Mat Isa at the opening of the PAS Youth annual assembly in Ipoh yesterday.
DAP opposed to Islam from the past to the present? Not true. Never. We have Muslims in DAP and could not be anti-Islam. We are for all religions for the good, virtuous and noble values they teach human beings to cultivate and cherish.
What DAP is opposed to is for any breach of the Merdeka social contract that Malaysia was founded be a multi-racial, multi-religious, democratic and secular nation with Islam as the official religion but not an Islamic state.
Another case of misreporting – misquoting Nasharudin as saying that DAP “yang menentang Islam dari dulu sampai sekarang…”?
#1 by kanda on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 2:28 pm
Sometimes people tend to forget what they said not so long ago. Let alone remembering what they said years ago. Their action then and now would mean more the words uttered. DAP has many occasion opposed some of the teachings of Islam either through words or action. Eg. the call for prayer-Azan is not suitable to be broadcast loudly using the loud speaker. Islam is Addin or way of life. Meaning in all aspects of a muslim life and actions were based on the teaching. This is why separation as term by secularism could not be accepted the way non muslim separated their belief on one hand and their worldly actions on the other.
#2 by tenaciousB on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 2:29 pm
It makes you wonder, there is a sense of insecurity within PAS or perhaps all their preelection promises are being reconsidered?
One thing for sure, i have certainly lost faith in PAS as part of PKR after they were found having rendezvous with UMNO. To me there’s loyalty down the drain. What makes anyone sure that they won’t defect once they are in power?
#3 by Tulip Crescent on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 2:34 pm
Has a member of the Fourth Estate, this time from Bernama, the state news agency, been used to probe the robustness or otherwise of the relationship between the leaders of the Pakatat Rakyat?
Of course, it is a clear misrepresentation of the state of affairs, but surely, going by the record of 50 years or more, the PKR, DAP, and Pas leaders and members must realise that such things are quite “normal” in this country?
So, when we fight for media freedom, we must also know the importance of the human digits that make up the Fourth Estate.
It is not for nothing that people have said that the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.
#4 by Yee Siew Wah on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 2:35 pm
I have no choice but to buy the best of the worst MSM i.e the STAR. I am waiting for the PKR papers to be published.
Most of the local MSMs are under BN goons control.
I read the blogs now.
I am no member of any political parties. But I beleive DAP is non-racial. Only the local MSMs reported it to be.
Shame on the local MSMs.
#5 by Tulip Crescent on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 2:36 pm
That such an insidious and surreptitous attempt has been made underscores the seriousness with which the National Front leaders view the Pakatan Rakyat challenge.
That, in itself, is compliment enough for the Pakatan.
At no time has the Alliance and the National Front feel so very challenged.
#6 by Pak Long on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 2:36 pm
Again and again, same old story.. Can’t they find a better one.. how many misreporting more to come? Please do something that are more contributing rather bring up all this to the public. We had enough….
#7 by manusia ada akal on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 3:04 pm
With the reach of the internet, it is hope that more rakyat can be informed of any given issues clearly so that they (the rakyat) who have “akal” can decide for themselves which path will bring higher chances of development and survival of Malaysia. In the long run, those who uses “akal” tend to have higher chances of choosing the right path in life which brings happiness to themselves and then onto others.
#8 by Adolf_Napoleon on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 3:26 pm
Dear YB and ALL
**************************************************
We will support PAS policy IF the constitution is amended that ALL Malaysian Citizen of all races can choose their religion freely.
This is the 21st century and we should not make Religion is a political issue.
Irrespective of all constitution in the world, the first basic human right enshrined when a person is born is FREEDOM OR RELIGION !!!
**************************************************
#9 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 3:42 pm
OK I repost :
Of course it is not true that DAP opposed to Islam from the past to the present but Nasharudin was reported by Bernama to have said it – and until now Nasharudin did not say he was misquoted, so misreporting is, at this juncture, a mere conjecture by Kit.
There is no evidence of any misreporting as yet but even if there was, the bigger issue that is reported correct is that there are strong elements within PAS who tilt to collaborate in favour of UMNO against the spirit of PKR’s collaboration.
#10 by Malaysian citizen on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 3:43 pm
Today, most young Malaysians are not so religious anymore, as there are so many races in Malaysia, we have to respect all religion from different races.
To me, what religion a person choses is up to his or her own choices.
Only people from UMNO and PAS are still using religion and the race issue to maintain their extra privilege.
This is their only chance left to maintain their existence, the day will come when all Malaysian is given the equal rights and when that day comes, UMNO is not relevant anymore.
Most Malaysians are busy with their day to day work, religious issues are all fabricated by the UMNO bunch since their income comes from sucking the blood of all working Malaysians.
#11 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 3:45 pm
YB Kit reiterated that “DAP is opposed to is for any breach of the Merdeka social contract that Malaysia was founded be a multi-racial, multi-religious, democratic and secular nation with Islam as the official religion but not an Islamic state”.
PAS does not care a hoot about DAP’s stand.
Proof:
1. PAS spiritual leader Datuk Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat said that that Umno and PAS be dissolved to set up a new party based on Islam to unite the Malays and to protect all including non-Muslims (by introducing Hudud and Qisas). PAS has agreed that discussions with Umno can continue as and when necessary, following a high-powered meeting between Dewan Syura Ulama members and PAS spiritual adviser Nik Aziz. Nik Aziz’s position now conguent with The proper term should be muqabalah, which is a direct face-to-face discussion and nothing beyond that, Abdul Hadi said PAS would continue its face-to-face discussions with Umno when necessary.“We would need to see how Umno responds to our earlier discussion.”
2. Even ‘enlightened’ Perak Menteri Besar Perak Datuk Seri Mohammad Nizar Jamaluddin said the DAP should not be worried about PAS’ credibility as PAS had “normal discussions” with Umno.
3. Kedah PAS commissioner Datuk Seri Azizan Abdul Razak said PAS would not follow the instructions of anyone in its struggle and as such, the DAP, which was its ally in the Pakatan Rakyat (PR), had no right to stop or determine PAS’ actions. “PAS, DAP and Parti Keadilan Rakyat (PKR) only cooperated as Pakatan Rakyat to face the Barisan Nasional (BN) in the general election. (It is) not an alliance like BN,” he said. “Malaysia is a free country and why must we follow others’ instructions,” Azizan said when asked to comment on DAP chairman Karpal Singh’s statement that the PR review PAS’ participation following its action of having discussions with Umno on Malay unity.
#12 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 3:55 pm
Regretable conclusion of these developments but the strak unpleasant truth :
Unless Anwar and PKR takes a clear and unambiguous position against developments in PAS ENDORSED by all of PAS’S TO ECHELON leaders – which so far PR de facto leader has evinced no such indication that he desires or could do so in a way reconcilable with his overarching aspiration to reach Putera Jaya – DAP has not a single leg to stand on within the Pakatan Rakyat political firmament and its continued collaboration with PAS within Pakatan Rakyat is a farce.
What started as a “sham marriage” to deny rival suitor BN 2/3 Parliamentary majority on 8th March has gone full circle and your “spouse of convenience” has made clear that it wants to cavort and continue having private tete-a-tete conversations with the rival suitor in a manner flagrantly unfaithful and undermining to the good faith spirit and letter of the spousal/matrimonial relationship where DAP short of a divorce has no place to hide its face regarding its principles of “multi-racial, multi-religious, democratic and secular nation with Islam as the official religion but not an Islamic state”!
#13 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 3:56 pm
Error – PAS’S TOP ECHELON leaders
#14 by wizzerd on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 4:05 pm
To all readers
Whatever it is, please be aware that BN is going all out to wage a propaganda war in mass media, print and electronic. Please do not believe what has been said/reported.
Even the statement made in the best of intentions can be twisted to sound seditious and with racial overtones.
BN’s Objective:
1) Break down the PR solidarity
2) Divert the attention away from the economic problems faced
3) Shore up ethno-nationalistic support for the Permatang Pauh’s by-election
4) Not forgetting..another internal big battle ahead,, UMNO elections
#15 by pulau_sibu on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 4:06 pm
so many countries have won a medal, but not malaysia yet!
#16 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 4:14 pm
It does not mater whether we’re talking here of a business parnership, a matrimonial union or a political partnership within a coalition : it is all to build a better future for all and requires the partners to act in utmost good faith in relation to each other and be supportive of the common goals.
Here we have within Pakatn Rakyat union a partner (PAS) who not only openly declares it does not agree with your core values of “multiracialism democratic and secular nation with Islam as the official religion but not an Islamic state” but also had past “secret” talks and meetings with rival suitor BN, and after this was blown up and revealed by that suitor, now says it wants to continue bilateral tete-a-tete conversations with the rival suitor (to explore over some common objectives, ostensibly religion though we all know its hedging its bets to share power and weighing which route is faster – via UMNO and via PR.
I call this infidelity and unfaithfulness which in context of marriage analogy tantamount to almost adultery justifying an immediate divorce! This is crystal clear of how PAS values your help in last election – the words of Kedah PAS commissioner Datuk Seri Azizan Abdul Razak that : PAS would not follow the instructions of anyone in its struggle and as such, the DAP, which was its ally in the Pakatan Rakyat (PR), had no right to stop or determine PAS’ actions. “PAS, DAP and Parti Keadilan Rakyat (PKR) only cooperated as Pakatan Rakyat to face the Barisan Nasional (BN) in the general election. (It is) not an alliance like BN,” he said. “Malaysia is a free country and why must we follow others’ instructions.” And none of PAS top echelon (Nik, Hadi, Nasruddin) ticked him off. This means they regard what he says as accurately reflective of PAS majority members position. So tell me without any pretension where does DAP stand in the PR union?
It is a union of 2 where PAS is more like the errant husband where DAP and PKR are the two wives both keeping quiet and not united to divorce the errant husband who is flirting with another suitor (UMNO) thinking of enlarging its extended family.
#17 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 4:17 pm
….It is a union of 3 – not 2!
#18 by sirrganass on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 4:23 pm
Misreported or misunderstood?
Since the beginning, for years, UMNO has been telling us, thro Newspaper, Radio and TV, that the Chinese in DAP are BAD and the Chinese in MCA/Gerakan are GOOD.
In the mind of the Malays, DAP is the worst party to work with, because they are, you know, “Oppossing Islam, Oppossing Bumiputra, disagreeing to the proposed National Economic Policy etc etc”. PAS was a very small party at that time.
Now PAS has grown – making achievements in many aspect without material and spiritual support from UMNO. And suddenly raise this issue: with whom should PAS work with? What is PAS’a attitude towards UMNO and DAP?
Nasarudin said, no matter how bad DAP sounds like, as told to them by UMNO, doesn’t even matter if DAP has been “Opposing ISlam for years” (as believed by the Malays to this date) – but STILL, PAS will work with DAP just for a simple reason that, politically, DAP has never been seen to have done bad thing about ISLAM whereas UMNO has been doing so many wrong thing about ISLAM.
The intrepretation is; if PAS can talk to DAP, will it be so wrong if PAS talk to UMNO? That is what Nasarudin mean. Misinterpreted again?
BYW, have we set a rule that “ONCE YOU ARE IN PAKATAN then THOU SHOULD NOT TALK TO THAT FELLA…”??? Do you want PAS to burn the entire bridge connecting to UMNO?
#19 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 4:26 pm
Of course there are compensations for being in a union with PAS. We have state councillor seats in Perak & Selangor. DAP controls Penang with the jewel crown of Chief ministership post.
Somehow it reminds me of the misconceived matrimonial analogy in which the aggrieved wife unhappy with the errant husband’s philandering ways is not quite prepared to file divorce preferring to languish in unhappiness, humiliation and fristrations amid material comfort of a nice house to stay in, a luxurious car to drive in and some jewelley, club membership and credit card spending, which is better than nothing out in the wilderness, having to struggle alone to make ends meet.
#20 by atlk on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 4:40 pm
YA ALLAH!!! Sejak bila DAP menentang Islam????? DAP TIDAK PERNAH SEKALI PON MENENTANG ISLAM. YA ALLAH!!! SILA MERAHMATI SIBODOH INI DENGAN SEDIKIT KECERDIKAN.
#21 by Mr Smith on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 4:40 pm
Nasharuddin is fighting for dear life with the PAS grassroot deadly against him. But on the other hand Nik Aziz has spoken positively about the DAP.
Kit may have to make it known to PAS that DAP had NEVER menentang Islam. If he did say then I would call him an idiot!
PAS seem to have been carried away by the March 8 victory, without realizing that the non-Malays had contributed to its remarkable achievement.
#22 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 4:41 pm
We should not look narrowly at whether a word or two of what Nasharudin Mat Isa said was misreported or otherwise but look at at what he said within the wider framework of what other top echelon leaders – Nik Aziz, Hadi, Perak & Kedah’s MB – said to adjudge and determine nuance and context of where PAS is heading on its own in relation to Pakatan rakyat’s struggles. I don’t think there is misreporting by main stream media of this bigger trend or drift on Pas’s part.
#23 by atlk on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 4:46 pm
Saya pun nak menerapkan Dhamma kepada semua yang masih belum memahami apa itu Buddhism yang sebenar.
#24 by MPSPK on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 4:47 pm
guys… we should focus on the by election… PAS is still in Pakatan Rakyat. the commitment shown…. problem is when people misinterpret. now UiTM is being exploited by UMNO goons to provoke the Malay sentiments… u know the vice chancellor has been anti-demonstration for all these years.. but suddenly no actions taken to those students who join a peace demonstration in front of Selangor MB office
#25 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 4:56 pm
//if PAS can talk to DAP, will it be so wrong if PAS talk to UMNO?Do you want PAS to burn the entire bridge connecting to UMNO?//
PAS is within PR. Talk to UMNO to get factions in UMNO to join PR to effect crossovers is faithful to PR but to talk to UMNO with the view to either joining BN or forming another party merging UMNO and PAS under pretext of Islamic unity to share power giving the BN back the 2/3 is a potentially reverse crossover situtation wholly and unmistakably unfaithful to PR, especially when the rest of PR’s supporters have given PAS the support (based on certain representations express or implied, now ignored by it) without the support of which PAS would not now have the muscle to leverage and bargain with the opposite side. That to me is betrayal by ‘taqiyya’.
#26 by Jeffrey on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 4:58 pm
PAS is within PR. Talk to UMNO to get factions in UMNO to join PR to effect crossovers is faithful to PR but to talk to UMNO with the view to either joining BN or forming another party merging UMNO and PAS under pretext of Islamic unity to share power giving the BN back the 2/3 is a potentially reverse crossover situtation wholly and unmistakably unfaithful to PR, especially when the rest of PR’s supporters have given PAS the support (based on certain representations express or implied, now ignored by it) without the support of which PAS would not now have the muscle to leverage and bargain with the opposite side. That to me is betrayal by ‘taqiyya’.
Is there a misinterpretaion here?
#27 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 5:35 pm
here we go again.
thats why in my earlier comment, why jump up and down the chimney , when dap and pas cannot even get their act together.
jeffrey comments above hit bulls’ eye. dap should have learnt a lesson or two from ba of 1999.
pas , having two wives now, ie pkr and dap have argue for the right to a third which they felt are much more comfortable of being the same race and religion. yb lim, should read and reread jeffrey’s comments. btw, the report also stated that pas is doing missionary work on umno. how gracious and how noble. i hope it works.
#28 by sirrganass on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 6:03 pm
Now Jeffrey is talking about “taqiyyah” ??? That’s wonderful!!! you see, there is no problem in understanding ISLAM and ARABIC – kacang only, right?
#29 by Old.observer on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 6:03 pm
Bernama misreporting, or Nasharuddin slip of tongue?
It’s clear to me, there are at least 2 camps in PAS. Camp A is led by TG Nik Aziz and he is hellbent in merging with UMNO. Camp B wants to merge with UMNO most likely due to money politics. For example, in Terengganu, it is rumoured that UMNO and PAS are working together when the Wang Ehsan was approved. Without doubt, Nasharuddin is in Camp B.
If so, it would suit his purpose to claim that DAP has always been against Islam “dari dulu sampai sekarang”.
The concern is where does TG Hadi stands? Camp A or B? He has been scolded by TG Nik Aziz for the last talk. But being in Terengganu, presumably, he would have already seen what the Wang Ehsan can do … Money, in large quantities, sometimes create the strangest effects on people.
Old Observer.
#30 by sirrganass on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 6:22 pm
//So tell me without any pretension where does DAP stand in the PR union? It is a union of 2 where PAS is more like the errant husband where DAP and PKR are the two wives both keeping quiet and not united to divorce the errant husband who is flirting with another suitor (UMNO) thinking of enlarging its extended family.//
a time bomb? an unholy team? Unfortunately PAS determines to stick to its own principle, can’t change it. At he end of the day, somehow, separation could happen… looks like we just have to be prepared for the worst. What to do?
The present job is only to deny BN 2/3. BUt none of us may achieve our own personal goals because we just have to think about all the needs of all our partners! But YES, partnerships can break-up, nobody is indespensible, nothing lasts forever! Best all luck to PR – hope it could last a bit longer!!!
For the time being pls try to work together until there is nothing to work for!
#31 by badak on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 6:29 pm
PAS must be open and tell PR where they stand.Not all PAS members will join BN.If PAS jump ship.
#32 by yhsiew on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 6:41 pm
PAS will probably split into two parties if it ever leaves PR. One party (led by TG Nik Aziz) will remain in PR while the other party (led by TG Hadi) will either be an independent party or join UMNO.
I do not believe TG Nik Aziz is interested to have PAS merged with UMNO. TG Nik Aziz was merely testing UMNO’s political waters and their reaction to Hudud law.
#33 by One4All4One on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 6:53 pm
Oh, come on…
Enough of flip flopping…
We have enough of that already…
Can you people be more principled…just keep to the flip side, could you guys?
Let’s move forward from here…
#34 by sjchange on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 7:44 pm
DAP has been very patient with them all this time.
Why don’t they just cool down a bit?
Use their brain to think instead their ass like BN!!!
It is not important for everyone to have the same religion,
but to have everyone to do the same right thing for the country.
To save the country before it is too late!!!
Alamak, pening aku!!! Tak faham-faham.
#35 by js on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 8:09 pm
PAS..PAS…PAS….You made us headache. Anything can happen from now on towards the election day. Hopefully DSAI can safely win the seat.
#36 by wtf2 on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 8:38 pm
Scanning thru the related stories in the NST online – i think the writing is already on the wall…..poor girl wont get any redress
* Altantuya murder trial: No proof when blast occurred, court told
* Altantuya murder trial: ‘Miracle’ of the blood-stained slippers in jeep
* Altantuya Murder Trial: Azilah’s call records ‘not genuine’
* Altantuya murder trial: ‘Policeman was just unsure’
* Altantuya Murder Trial: Cop walking accused to court collapses, dies
* Altantuya Murder Trial: Credibility of police witness questioned
* Altantuya murder trial: Court rejects move for Najib, private eye to testify
* Altantuya Murder Trial: Move to recall private eye
#37 by MZ on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 8:50 pm
SAD ! PAS PAS PAS ! Really disapointed with its president! Husam Musa tack over I think better – his idea are almost the same with Nik Aziz.
The Relationship betweent PAS and Pakatan is not so STRONG. DAP and Keadilan is a party for all Malaysian while PAS is just “like” UMNO, a party for Muslim while non-muslim can only be supporter. May be some day, people will treat it as “racist” party also…..Like UMNO….
“Ketika berucap di Pulau Pinang Ahad lalu, Presiden PAS, Datuk Seri Abdul Hadi Awang berkata, parti itu tegas mempertahankan Islam dan sanggup meninggalkan Pakatan Rakyat jika ia tidak menguntungkan Islam” (Malaysia Kini)
After I read this statement, with the condition that we have now, PAS might leave Pakatan Rakyat because of ISLAM. Leaving Pakatan Rakyat = Supporting BN that full of corruption.
I know ISLAM is important than everything for Muslim, but because of ISLAM you supporting BN that is full of corruption , is this worth ?
Please think twice PAS, leaving Pakatan is just the same you supporting BN, you dont have other choice, people is Malaysia will hate you forever even Muslim people if you leave Pakatan when all Malaysian are about to WIN. You will even lose Kelantan if you leave Pakatan ….
Strogly feel that the idea of PAS’s President is so diffrent from Nik Aziz and Husam Musa which their idea is more acceptable.
Some one even suggesting HADI as PM! What is this ….
DAP + KeAdilan, please aware that PAS might not be a good partner . Keadilan, try to tck over Kelantan and PAS. DAP works harder on others state .. dont rely too much on pas ..
I always support TG Nik Aziz … but what happen recently by its leadership make me disapointed.
#38 by MZ on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 8:52 pm
Correction :
DAP + KeAdilan, please aware that PAS might not be a good partner . Keadilan, try to tck over Kelantan and Terengganu. DAP works harder on others state .. dont rely too much on pas ..
#39 by Damocles on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 8:56 pm
After reading the postings in this blog, I think that straight thinking is as dead as a door nail!
Let’s get something very, very straight.
Uncle Lim has always been for “a Malaysia for Malaysians”.
He has always insisted on this country being a secular one with Islam as the official religion while others have the freedom to worship their own god.
That much is clear, I hope?
I have been reading Uncle’s blog for quite some time now and I noticed that every time PAS mentioned that it wanted this country to be a Muslim country, he’ll always, without fail, voice his objection.
I still remember that many of those who posted here, now, were very keen to have the DAP in the coalition! To reduce the two-thirds majority of the BN or to defeat it if possible.
Now, when things are not going the way it should be, the same people are berating him!
It’s entirely not the fault of Uncle Lim as he has always been true to his beliefs! I doubt that anyone of you can find a politician in this country (or anywhere else for that matter) who is as true-blue as he!
I’m sure that the PR coalition will be having discussions to clarify matters and in the meantime, let’s not blame him for something not of his doing!
#40 by One4All4One on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 9:16 pm
Let’s separate religion from politics.
Religion should not be politicised and vice versa.
In that manner less friction and conflict will occur.
Look at the bigger picture. The administration of a nation is not totally a religious matter, it involves many aspects of administration and management. In a pluralistic and multi-religious set-up like ours, there cannot be a dominating and lording over kind of attitude. This module of administration would not be in sync with modern time.
Religion is a personal matter; it is between the individual and God. No coercion can make a person religious or otherwise. Outward appearance cannot be equated with actual piousness. There are those who seem to be religious, but inwardly aren’t. So, let’s refrain from judging one another’s religiosity.
Separate all these from politics and focus on the job of running whatever office we aspire for. Then the rakyat will feel easier and confident with whoever is helming the administration.
More importantly have integrity, fairness, accountability. Be transparent, wise, impartial. Be effective, professional, progressive. Create a conducive and inspiring space and environment for individual development and nurturing of talents.
Only then will there be a sense of pride, contentment, and acceptance on the part of the citizenry.
Let good sense prevail!
#41 by eyuppie on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 9:23 pm
PAS has acted too unreasonable and very naive! They think that they (PAS) are very great. They think that the non-Muslims have accepted them in the 12th general election and now they acted very arrogant. They are making a big mistake here just like the UMNO faced after the 2004 election.
In the recent election, the Opposition irrespective of whether DAP, PKR or PAS able to win because the Malaysian voted for anything on the ballot paper OTHER THAN the dacing (BN).
From today’s the staronline news with the heading “Pakatan state govts under fire at PAS muktamar” and an extracted part of the contents “The conservative Dewan Ulama defended its decision to allow the party to hold talks with Umno and proposed president Datuk Seri Hadi Awang for Prime Minister. …… The ulama also want Penang, Perak, Kedah and Selangor to adopt Kelantan’s policies of banning alcohol and gambling to be implemented. …… Another Youth delegate from Terengganu referred to non-Muslims as “orang asing”.
PAS has a wrong concept between a politic party and a religious organisation. PAS MUST LEARN from the BN’s non-UMNO component parties, their spirit and support. Even though they are AGAINST many things that the UMNO, the PM and the DPM did, they still fully support the spirit of the BN. The MCA, MIC, etc. will not simply criticized UMNO openly because they understand that they are politic parties. This shown that even though PAS has been founded many many years, PAS is still acting like an inmature infant. I suggest that PAS should convert from a politic party to a non-politic organisation as they are not fit to fight for the Malaysian’s future!
I agreed with MZ, “DAP + KeAdilan, please aware that PAS might not be a good partner . Keadilan, try to tck over Kelantan and PAS. DAP works harder on others state .. dont rely too much on pas ..”
#42 by One4All4One on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 9:31 pm
Dear fellow readers and contributors,
Let’s not get overzealous with our ideas and opinions just as we find it difficult to accept that in others. It is just not right to call anyone by crude or disrespectful names. If we don’t respect others, we cannot expect that in return, can we?
It is most basic that we respect others, be they friends or foes. We may disagree, but that doesn’t mean we have to be enemies. Tolerance is the hallmark of a balanced person.
It does not bode well if we only know how to condemn others, while we ourselves also have weaknesses. No one is perfect.
So, let’s guard our language and action, lest they become targets of criticism by others who disagree with us. Even if we wish to criticise, let it be constructive and useful.
Let’s keep an open mind, and take the best and leave the undesirable.
Thank you.
#43 by gundam on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 9:38 pm
“Another PAS Youth delegate from Terengganu referred to non-Muslims as “orang asing”.
One delegate grew so emotional, he thumped the rostrum with both hands.
The critical mood at the Youth assembly was reminiscent of the ultra-Malay debate at the Umno Youth assembly three years ago. The only thing missing was the keris.
#44 by Patek 1472 on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 9:57 pm
Q6. Race superiority is needed to rule Malaysians. (Fact or Fiction)
Ketuanan bangsa diperlukan untuk memerintah negara. (Fakta atau Rekaan)
Q7. Religious superiority is needed to rule Malaysians. (Fact or Fiction)
Ketuanan ugama diperlukan untuk memerintah Negara. (Fakta atau Rekaan)
Q16. All Malaysians and the world can be converted to a single culture, religion, race in future. (Fact or Fiction)
Semua rakyat Malaysia dan sedunia boleh diubahkan kepada suatu kebudayaan, ugama dan bangsa pada masa hadapan. (Fakta atau Rekaan)
Q28. Only PAS can take care of Moslem’s interest. (Fact or Fiction)
Cuma PAS boleh menjaga kepentingan orang Muslim. (Fakta atau Rekaan)
Q43. Divide and rule exists in all politics and religion. (Fact or Fiction)
Memecah belah dan memerintah terdapat di semua fahaman politik dan ugama. (Fakta atau Rekaan)
Q49. Race and Religious supremacy are preached by satans. (True or False)
Ketuanan bangsa dan ugama adalah dikutbah oleh syaitan. (Betul atau Salah)
Q50. Malaysian politicians are typical Jeyklls and Hydes. (True or False)
Ahli politik Malaysia melambangkan personality Jeyklls dan Hydes. (Betul atau Salah)
Answers at http://patek1472.wordpress.com
Jawapan di http://patek1472.wordpress.com
#45 by One4All4One on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 10:03 pm
Those who made such statements in the PAS Youth assembly are the minnows, and cannot be taken seriously. At the end of the day, it is the central committee which make the final decisions.
In every such kind of meeting there are bound to be firebrands who are out to impress others with their bravado and oratorical skills. Just don’t give them too much attention and publicity, and they will fade into the background.
PAS knows that they have come this far in the GE2008 with help of DAP and PKR, and they have to accept that reality. Without the extra votes they would not be where there are now.
PAS have to swim or sink with PR. And they can’t do it alone. They cannot be in the same boat with BN/UMNO, that’s for sure.
Their leaders would learn that they have to separate politics from religion. The two are just like water and oil, they just cannot be mixed. Islam is the religion the Muslims practise and profess. It is their way of life. and everybody must respect that. The others have their own beliefs and way of life, and that cannot be denied. So, what is there to quarrel over with respect to religion?
Better focus on whatever that matters. Move forward, not back.
Let good sense prevail!
#46 by sirrganass on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 10:03 pm
Hello MZ. Quiting from Pakatan won’t make PAS go to BN. PAS has strongly confirmed that it won’t join UMNO. Enuff for that. PAS has its own way of struggle. Everybody knows it already. PAS has got enuff meeting among themselves to confirm that they are not interested in BN.
ANd you will see that IF (IF) … if PAS feel so much dissappointed because ISLAM has not been given enuff attention during the future PR era, then, PAS is definately going SOLO all by its own. It won’t join UMNO either and it won’t join PKR, or DAP.
Now UMNO is pening kepala, they are very weak already. They want to marry PAS. But PAS has clearly rejected it.
Why is there still somebody believe that PAS will JOIN UMNO??? That could never happen. Instead PAS IS WORKING ON CALLING UMNO TO JOIN PAS, PAS WON’T submit to UMNO but UMNO must join PAS, and to sit under ULAMAK’S HUDUD LAW.
Umno members are invited to join PAS (Nizar MB Perak has already made the offer to UMNO members quite openly – so did many leaders of PAS: inviting everybody to join PAS – even non-muslim can now join PAS). PAS is now persuading UMNO to be good citizen, don’t do curruption, don’t kill people, don’t be racial, don’t simple accuse people with sodomy etc etc.
You, too, are also invited to join PAS… is it ok?
Now the issue of PAS joining UMNO has already over and pls nobody will say that again. THe real issue now is… “PAS may leave PAKATAN” if ISLAMIC IDEOLOGY are not attended to or being put aside… Talk about this, ok?
#47 by chin on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 10:15 pm
Than i see that PAS has no grounds to menentang UMNO. And thats what UMNO guys wanted. To break apart PAKATAN.
#48 by One4All4One on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 10:16 pm
Let’s have a clear conscience and don’t be carried away by emotions.
Anybody can make any comments, but it is up to us to decide whether those comments are logical or acceptable or not.
Let’s not be easily swayed by propaganda or misleading statements.
If one is guided and stands by principles, there should not be much controversies and suspicions. One has to learn to adapt and be open to views which are different from ours. We may not be right all the time! For goodness sake, no one can lay claim to be perfect in everything. Compromise and adjustment to situations ( not principles, though) can give rise to wonderful solutions. This is a time tested methodology. Let’s not despair as yet!
#49 by sirrganass on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 10:27 pm
Latest from PAS:
//IPOH, 14 Ogos (Hrkh) – Usul penubuhan sekretariat Perundingan Melayu Islam untuk menjaga hak-hak Melayu yang dibentang Dewan Pemuda PAS Terengganu ditolak pada muktamar hari ini.
Bagaimanapun tiga lagi usul diterima selepas dibahas iaitu (1) memperkukuhkan peranan PAS dalam Pakatan Rakyat, (2) memperkasakan kedudukan penyokong bukan Islam dan (3) mempertahankan kedaulatan negara dengan menjadikan pulau Batu Putih sebagai pengajaran.
Usul yang ditolak tersebut sebelum itu dibahas perwakilan dari Kelantan, Hisham Fauzi dan Khairul Anuar Wafa (Negeri Sembilan).
Hisham berkata, penolakkan itu kerana Islam itu sendiri telah menjamin kestabilan bangsa asalkan ianya berlandaskan pegangan agama Islam. //
Yes, because of ISLAM, things may be uncomfortable to many of you non-muslim. But, please read the above extraction form http://harakahdaily.net
Look: PAS still want to work closely with all of you and with all non-muslim. You can sleep well tonight, k?
#50 by Samuel Goh Kim Eng on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 10:35 pm
‘Say what you mean and mean what you say!’
To make it easier to differentiate between night and day
And make it simpler to know the difference between weed and hay
So that everyone on the road knows how to find his own way
(C) Samuel Goh Kim Eng – 140808
http://MotivationInMotion.blogspot.com
Thu. 14th Aug. 2008.
#51 by daryl on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 10:45 pm
Sometimes you wonder can we ever win this war with BN because of its deep pocket, control over MSM and race/religion cards they play at will. However, I believe at the end of the day the truth will and must prevail for Malaysia to move foward.
#52 by yhsiew on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 11:06 pm
Good news!
After the Permatang Pauh by-election, PR will come up with a “PR Principles Declaration Document” which will spell out PR common objectives, PR principles/stand on issues which affect the party, PR plans and PR policies for the 5 PR-led states. The Document also serves as a guide for component party leaders and members in matters pertaining to speech and conduct, and this will help settle internal disputes/contradictions and create a unified image and united front to counter BN influence.
The Document will list out items which require collective PR decisions and items which require component party decisions. Inter co-operation relationship among the three component parties will be explained.
The Document was drafted by PKR, DAP and PAS and currently is in its final stage of editing and binding. It is ready for distribution after 26 August 08. – sorry for my poor translation from Chinese Malaysiakini.
#53 by alaneth on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 11:12 pm
There I told you guys that I am all out not voting for PAS as they are all down into establishing an Islamic State although in the GE they did not mention that. Now they are showing & playing their Islamic card. Banning alcohol, gambling is the first step towards an Islamic state. Later Hudud etc…
I have numerous times reiterated that given a choice btw UMNO & PAS, I will make an Undi Rosak as I do not support these 2 parties.
Yet I receive criticism from other blog members saying it is OK to vote for PAS. Now you see it, they never change… When they do poorly in the ’04 GE, they subdue their Islamic agenda in ’08 & I don’t know why many DAP members are fooled by them!!!
I am downright straight
I am for DAP & PKR only, but not for PAS or UMNO.
#54 by katdog on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 11:44 pm
Again, people keep forgetting the PAS is not a single unified entity with members who are clones of each other and all think the same thing.
The are undoubtly various factions within PAS that continually like to paint themselves as warriors of Islam. Who play up certain sentiments to grant them easy points with the crowd. If you trully were believers in the principles of Islam would you allow yourself to work with murderers, thieves and liars from UMNO? And to allow these thieves to continually pillage money from the people?
The important thing is to engage those within PAS who are more mature and forward thinking rather than isolate all of PAS.
#55 by StevePCH on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 11:50 pm
very easy. PAS leave PR . PR lose Selangor n Perak. stupid PAS deputy President n President. BeEnd take over lar and continue to be kingmakers.
This is what happen when a party like PAS does not have a clear and strong leadership , I think it’s more than Camp A and B maybe C , D , E , F. Islam for all ??? glory for self I think more suitable.
Every once in a while, some guy with say something contradictory and … sigh next day a different statement.
#56 by pkrisnin on Thursday, 14 August 2008 - 11:50 pm
Looks like UMNO media are trying to put their words into PAS statement. My guess they are hoping to cause issues in the PR coalition and looks like some in PAS are also working as UMNO agents. Looks like someone really wants Najib’s job. I hope PR leaders are taking these people into account.
#57 by MZ on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 12:01 am
Hi sirrganass, I am not talking that PAS will join BN. But if PAS leave PR, indirectly , it give support to BN because without PAS, PR can’t formed government in some state. We never said that PAS will Join BN, but if PAS is alone than Corrupt BN will WIN ! Don’t you agree ?
#58 by riversandlakes on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 12:03 am
Misreporting is you being politically polite, Uncle Lim.
To us it’s just another one of the countless lies from the Barang Naik irrelevant government whose days are numbered.
DSAI ’08!
#59 by just a moment on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 12:33 am
I cannot believed what Im reading from the Star paper at the assemblies of PAS!
1.Kelantan delegate Zamakhari Mohamed said he found the comments on religion in Lim’s blog offensive and insensitive.
2.They also rapped the Bar Council’s attempt to discuss Islamic issues in its recent forum.
3.Dewan Ulama defended its decision to allow the party to hold talks with Umno and proposed president Datuk Seri Hadi Awang for Prime Minister.
4.The ulama also want Penang, Perak, Kedah and Selangor to adopt Kelantan’s policies of banning alcohol and gambling to be implemented.
5.Another Youth delegate from Terengganu referred to non-Muslims as “orang asing”.
6.Central committee member Mujaheed Rawa who attended as an observer said that for a moment he thought he was at an Umno Youth meeting.
These reports is a sure way to create problem within PR. Lets pray all the above is just another ploy by the PR’s “Opposition” to disrupt PR’s way forward. Reserve comment for the time being.
Be vigilent ppl, snakes are just round the corner!
Its not pretty.
#60 by imranj78 on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 12:34 am
Mr Lim, you wrote thi:
`What DAP is opposed to is for any breach of the Merdeka social contract that Malaysia was founded be a multi-racial, multi-religious, democratic and secular nation with Islam as the official religion but not an Islamic state.’
By the very writing above, you are opposing PAS. PAS is bent on establishing an Islamic state. And I don’t blame them, in Islam, there is no such thing as separating politics and religion. Islam is a way of life, not only a religion persay. PAS’ demands are getting louder by the day and they are also getting bolder. What is DAPs view on this?
#61 by fish-warezmasterz on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 1:35 am
1.somebody said “We will support PAS policy IF the constitution is amended that ALL Malaysian Citizen of all races can choose their religion freely.” how old are you my friend? tell us,is there any law says u cant choose your religion freely?? no need to amend constitution.if you are Muslims,you cant choose any other religion because Islam is the only way of life.thats it, Islam is not a religion just like any others.
2.Mr Lim and fellow bloggers, you are opposed to Islamic state.why??? means,you dont like Islam 100%.just like Singapore,they dont hate Islam but at the same time they dont like Islam…what is the problem if we have Islamic state?? what is the problem if we have Hudud and Qisas?? Under Islamic state,there wont be any ethnic cleansing or kind of thing..people,dont hide your fear over Islamic state..in my opinion,there is nothing to fear.
good example is Kelantan.muslims and non-muslims are happy there..the environment is not like in any other states.
#62 by mohammadharrisjalil on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 2:08 am
Uncle Lim… hope you can explain this to Haji Hadi and Nasharruddin about this…OMG.. selalu aje macam nih lah PAS ni.. cakap tak fikir! Main lepas aje!
#63 by kerajaan.rakyat on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 2:31 am
Dear YB Lim,
Hope this Nasharuddin Mat Isa read your blog and this posting.
Nasharuddin, this is for you.
If you have nothing good to say, pls keep your bloody mouth shut. This 2 months you has geared PAS and PR to problems. Pls Nasharuddin, we had enough of you!!!.
http://www.kerajaanrakyat.com/
#64 by yhsiew on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 6:38 am
yhsiew Says:
Yesterday at 23: 06.17
Good news!
After the Permatang Pauh by-election, PR will come up with a “PR Principles Declaration Document”……..
——————————————————————-
The current hiccup between PAS and DAP is due to the lack of a binding agreement between the component parties within PR. Hope leaders and members in PR will adhere to the “PR Principles Declaration” and bring about peace and unity within the party.
#65 by undergrad2 on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 6:44 am
PAS does what it does best i.e. stoke the flames of religious fanaticism.
#66 by musyu99 on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 7:54 am
Nampaknya persidangan PAS sama sahaja macam UMNO..
Walaubagaimanapun harap ianya hanyalah propaganda media perdana sahaja bagi menggugat kestabilan PR. Kita harap DAP tidak terperangkap dengan fikiran kolot segelintir pemimpin PAS dan juga permainan kotor pemimpin UMNO/BN. Kita mahu perubahan kepada sistem pemerintahan yang sedia ada. Kerajaan BN patut di singkirkan. Kita mahu sebuah kerajaan baru yang mantap yang boleh beri kesejahteraan kepada rakyat dan tidak rasuah. Semua pemimpin dalam PR seharusnya mempunyai pendirian sama. Masalah perlu diselesaikan dengan cara bermesyuarah bagi mencari jalan penyelesaian yang terbaik untuk semua pihak. Kita mahukan satu pakatan kerajaan yang cukup utuh yang akan diterima oleh semua rakyat tidak kira apa bangsa, agama atau pegangan politik sekali pun. Kita perlu berjuang kearah itu. Kita bersatu hati atas satu bangsa iaitu bangsa Malaysia….
#67 by just a moment on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 8:10 am
Opposition of Mr Lim and fellow bloggers, You see, no one is complaining about Muslim or for ppl who wants to be muslim. Go ahead, make my day. The problem is you ppl kept encrouching into others freewill of livestyle and like a stubborn young kid who “Just gotta have a muslim state” don’t care!
Why so afraid of not having a muslim state?
We respect ppl in Kelantanese, if they are ‘trully’ happy living under whatever circumstances and economic conditions, so be it. We’ll be happy for you. You have chosen your freewill.
But pls lah, don’t come and tell and force me and others what our freewill should be lah. See the difference?
Even your own child may not even agree with your own belief all the time. So, just grow up, see the world a bit, relax. This world do not revolved becuase of your ‘muslim’ religion alone.
Don’t you know there are many more things God wants us to explore? Example are watch cartoons. Good values.
Good vs Evil things like that lah.
#68 by PHUAKL on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 8:45 am
Dear All
There will always be factions within political parties.
If Nasharudin Mat Isa has actually been quoted correctly
(we all know that the MSM is capable of all sorts of journalistic
mischief), he is just mouthing the views of a particular
Malay nationalist faction within PAS.
The question is how big is this faction? My guess is that it is small and that the overwhelming majority of PAS members despise UMNO and will oppose any collaboration with UMNO with all their might.
By the way, Yee Siew Wah, PKR already publishes a paper called “Suara Keadilan”.
Phua Kai Lit
#69 by Bigjoe on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 8:55 am
My symphaties reaches out to Sdr. Lim for this untiring effort to correct all the distractions of the PR such as these misreporting.
But that aside, its worrying that the likes of Nassaruddin still don’t get it that even if he wants an Islamic state, that it must go through PR and not BN.
DAP don’t believe in Islamic state and want to stick to the original constitution which I am of course all for it. But even DAP must admit that if they all come together and want and Islamic state, then its their right. The issue how it is done and it must not because of feudualistic way. If a referendum was held and people chose it, fine but it must not be decided in backrooms even if its in mosque and holy places. The choice of Islamic state must be done by the people in open transparent manner with full due process..
Nasruddin and Hadi Awang has lost it politically and don’t get it, the choice of Islamic state is not theirs…
#70 by PHUAKL on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 8:59 am
Dear All
Take a look at this posting (the second half deals with
UMNO-PAS stuff):
http://www.malaysiawaves.com/2008/08/reports-from-rumor-mills-on-anwar-issue_09.html
Phua Kai Lit
#71 by limkamput on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 9:13 am
Undergrad2 says: PAS does what it does best i.e. stoke the flames of religious fanaticism.
Do you still think this country is blessed by God? I think many spend too much time talking about religion and God is because their stomach is full or they are too free having to earn a living. Excessive indulgence in religion and god is like someone sitting at the kopitiam talking cock.
#72 by raverus on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 9:37 am
Nak dekati rasuah (amno)? Isn’t that going againts Islamic teachings?
IRONIC.
#73 by taiking on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 9:39 am
KeAdilan is a relatively new party. Still green and raw. Fortunately it has a sizeable number of seasoned politician members. However being new has its advantages for it would be or would be perceived as more receptive to ideas and criticisms.
UMNO is an establised party. It is like a dinasour and is in disarray with no clear heavyweights available to lead the party. Najib to my mind is a goner or as good as gone.
PAS is also an established party. It is at the moment undergoing some internal adjustments. Like DAP and KeAdilan, PAS too realises that UMNO is now at its weakest. They have a choice however – talk to UMNO or go with Pakatan. In terms of ideals UMNO is perhaps the more compatible of the two. However not all in PAS is unanimous on the proper choice to pick. The final decision, either way, would have a negative internal as well as external impact on the party. Someone inside pas must start to brainstorm on damage control measures now in advance and in anticipation of possible fallouts.
DAP too is an established party. In my view it is the most stable party in the country at the moment. Its ideals has not waivered very much, if at all. Its support base has increased – a benefit which the party gained from the chinese voters’ rejection of MCA and Gerakan and the indian voters’ rejection of MIC. Of course, the gain is actually neither sudden nor unexpected. The gain came about no less because of the party’s clear ideals and stand on national issues and its stability.
Where do we go from here?
Chinese voters do not seem to vote like before anymore. The split between chinese educated / new village chinese voters and english educated / urban chinese voters no longer exist.
The urban and educated malay voters have mutured a great deal (on their own merits and strength) are not concerned about NEP, ketuanan melayu and malay privileges. Like the non-malays, they too look at national issues (e.g. why angkasawan? etc) and at results, performance, productivity and efficiency, transparency etc – all the more modern aspects of administration. This development is a divergent from UMNO’s ideals and posed a complicated challenge to UMNO in terms of maintaining their support base.
The indians lost faith in MIC and went over the DAP and keAdilan.
Corruption is rampant and on the rise in terms of numbers and in monetary value. What is worse, we no longer have to contend with petty corruption like paying kopi money to a traffic police for not issuing speeding ticket. We actually have organised (in fact highly organised) corruption. It has taken on the image of organised crimes like those operated by mafia and the likes. That is why we have corruptions involving large amount of money.
The UMNOputras have grown. So too have their needs and demands. They control UMNO and hence the country’s piggy bank. That means putting money in the wrong hand.
Economically, we are not good. Our competitiveness all these years were propped artificially by petrol subsidy. The government tricked all of us into believing that we could compete with singapore and hk and taiwan and korea. We actually cannot. The years of subsidy has brought about subsidy dependancy by people in the country (perhaps not very different to drug dependancy or NEP dependancy). UMNO now rather irresponsibly reduce it drastically. Rebate? That is a joke. Now joke aside, where are the foreign investors? Have they gone missing? So many mega projects all at once. Where are we getting the funds from?
Those in PP who are undecided or minded to vote UMNO’s candidate. Pause for a moment. Think about these issues. Think about where you want the country to head. Think about what UMNO has done to the country and hence to you and your future.
Vote Anwar Ibrahim.
#74 by oknyua on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 9:51 am
The discussion reflects exactly the dilemma of PAS and DAP, one concerns too much about the spiritual forgetting this is planet earth, and another too much on the righteousness on earth ignoring there “might” be a kingdom after death. How to marry the two together? Impossible.
I stand by my view that the ball is on DAP’s feet. DAP has its own ulamak and Christian believers and the internal discussions is a good start. Then broaden yourself to PAS. So far its PAS that discussed this – has DAP discussed this behind closed doors?
Both PAS and DAP has a common enemy in UMNO and maybe for the same reason too. For us Malaysians, there is no actual fear of PAS or DAP, but there is an obvious hatred for UMNO. It is the supporters’ loss if PAS and DAP split resulting in resurgence of UMNO. The like of Kassim Amat is laughing at us.
Sometimes I cannot understand politics because I think on what is logical. PAS is slowly discarding the logical. DAP too. When both operate on the emotions, it’s no longer logical. We still have so many common grounds for unity, failing which the greedy monster UMNO will grab everything back.
#75 by son of perpaduan on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 10:17 am
Malaysia political affair has been dominated by the influence of religions interference for 51 years, look what happen now to our motherland ruin by these people who wants wealth for their own interest rather than saving the country development.
Religion interfere country administration, religion interfere economy and religion interfere freedom to progress.
Who run the country?? muslim.
Who are the most corrupted person?? muslim.
These people who tarnish the image of muslim is a muslim too.
We gotto stop these people now.
If not, the will ruin the muslim faith who is practice by billions of people around the world.
As far as I’m concerned, Islam is a beautiful teaching and peaceful people too. This will cause negative perception to many nice and warm muslim.
Why they are some many hardworking muslim in Sri Lanka, Cambodia, Thailand and the other region too? What is their difference between them and malaysia?
Answer is they don’t hold any political interest in politic. That is why they work harder, why not in Malaysia?
#76 by Navinda on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 10:17 am
What’s wrong with PAS? Has the winning of a few seats gone to their heads? Before the elections, an understanding was reached by which the parties agreed that:
they will have an electoral pact on cooperation on the basis all races are equal;
Islamic laws will not be implemented and the status quo of both courts (Civil and Syariah) would remain;
they would work towards forming a federal government with DSAI the Prime Minister if elected.
How fast have all these been forgotten. The loose pact was now bound into a strong Pakatan Rakyat and the state governments under PR are working out well. Now some clowns in PAS are throwing the spanner in the wheels to derail what has been achieved,demanding for all kinds of perks. ll these came about after only three rounds of talks with UMNO.
God forbid if they have more talks.
#77 by son of perpaduan on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 10:30 am
IF EVERY ONE PUT IN THE POSITIVE PERCEPTION OF WHAT SELANGOR MB SAID ABOUT UiTM THEN THE NATION WILL MOVE FORWARD, BUT IF YOU THINK OF IT NEGATIVELY THEN NATION WILL MOVE BACKWARD. SIMPLE ANSWER,RIGHT?
OVERALL HE IS NOT AS STUPID AS THOSE WHO THINK NEGATIVELY. RIGHT OR WRONG?
#78 by bentoh on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 11:17 am
What DAP is opposed to is for any breach of the Merdeka social contract that Malaysia was founded be a multi-racial, multi-religious, democratic and secular nation with Islam as the official religion but not an Islamic state.
================================================
Uncle Kit,
I must say that this particular paragraph can be easily misunderstood…
It makes people like me thought DAP is opposing this and that but not opposing Islamic state… and hence I see some blog link here saying “DAP OK to Islamic state”…
Watch out the language! :)
#79 by dawsheng on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 11:19 am
“Who run the country?? muslim. Who are the most corrupted person?? muslim.” -son of perpaduan
Sorry, I strongly disagree. Muslims run the country but it’s Chinese and Indians that make it go round and round, the same when we talk about corruption, like criminals and its victims, it has nothing to do with race or religion, only profits and self benefits.
#80 by dawsheng on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 11:24 am
“I stand by my view that the ball is on DAP’s feet. DAP has its own ulamak and Christian believers and the internal discussions is a good start. Then broaden yourself to PAS. So far its PAS that discussed this – has DAP discussed this behind closed doors?” oknyua
In my view, the ball is on PAS’s court, but instead of kicking over, they are only playing with themselves, so that the score will remains nil-nil, ignoring the rules of the game. Well, Malaysians will tell them this is a boring game in the next general election.
#81 by dawsheng on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 11:34 am
All thanks to PAS if Anwar won Permatang Pauh, all the remarks made during PAS Youth annual assembly will help secure at least 60% of the votes.
#82 by dawsheng on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 11:38 am
We shouldn’t blame PAS for what they are. Blame DAP for joining Pakatan Rakyat.
#83 by oknyua on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 11:49 am
We shouldn’t blame PAS for what they are. Blame DAP for joining Pakatan Rakyat. dawsheng
Right, right, right.
DAP blame themselves for joining hands with PAS or just keep quiet, Or solve issues properly.
I’ve worked with ex-drug addicts before and sometimes met their wives. How did you meet him? Knowing him as an addict, why did you marry him? Answer (while crying): “He (sob) said he would change. I also thought I can change him (sob).”
#84 by lakilompat on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 12:04 pm
“Mongolia has won medals in wrestling, boxing, shooting and judo at previous games, but never a gold. Gundegmaa Otryad won a silver medal in women’s pistol shooting on Wednesday.”
What Malaysian Malay is doing? country like Mongolia already earning gold medal, and Malay in Malaysia still debating about race?
Don’t forget the only gold medal hope lies in the hand of chinese not a muslim. Is religion so important or nation unity important?
Islamic state can bring any good to Malaysia? or Democratic state?
#85 by lakilompat on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 12:12 pm
While Malaysian Islam is debating whether Malaysia is an islamic country, Mongolia already celebrating its glory in Olympic.
ULAN BATOR, Mongolia – Thousands of Mongolians hit the streets of the capital to celebrate the country’s first-ever Olympic gold medal, offering vodka toasts, blaring their car horns and waving the nation’s flag from the city’s tallest buildings.
Fireworks exploded above Ulan Bator as revelers sang the national anthem after traditional wrestler Tuvshinbayar Naidan’s judo win on Thursday. Naidan, whose nickname is “Tuvshee,” beat Kazakhstan’s Askhat Zhitkeyev in the men’s 100-kilogram class.
By the way, Buddhist also offer vodka toast, vodka is alcohol but is acceptable, PAS is condemning the sales of alcohol and campaign to reduce the consumption. Why let religion interfere with our life, this is very undemocratic? If over consume of alcohol create problem, that’s a personal problem, let the bar council of judge to decide, not let the law of religion (Islamic law) to decide.
Who is paying those chartered bus for UITM students to go on street rally, and where are the FRU? i thought their student charter clearly stated they need Dean to approve for any gathering of more than 2 students, why now there is so many UITM Malay students. Don’t forget not all taxpayer is Malay, most are non Malay who pay the tax, what’s wrong if UITM open more than 10% quota, Is Malay the King or what, is this fair, why Indian fight british in South Africa and India, is because of unfair treatment of other race, in Africa is apartheid.
Indian lawyer can’t sit in 1st class train cabin, that was prior to India independence.
In South Africa, apartheid, the black are not suppose to mix or mingle with the white.
In Malaysia, non Malay can only have 10% quota access on University Build by government and funded by Malay and non Malay thru tax.
This clearly indicate all the UITM students are rubbish, They won’t be any ppl. hiring them becos they are pure junks living in jungle unable to distinguish what is right from wrong. Easily manipulated and purchased by the BN cronies.
#86 by Freddy on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 12:13 pm
TheStar reported that ‘Pusrawi doc sacked for failing to report for work’.
Malaysiakini reports that the hospital denies issuing such statements.
ooooh ……. something sinister about theStar
#87 by PHUAKL on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 12:23 pm
Dear Freddy 12:13.33
Deplorable, isn’t it?
I suggest that The Star should change its name to
Pvavda (as in the Soviet-era Pravda).
No, I take that back. Even Pravda has revived and become
a respectable newspaper in present-day Russia.
I suggest that The Star be renamed to “People’s Daily”
as in the PRC Communist Party’s mouthpiece.
Phua Kai Lit
#88 by Godfather on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 12:30 pm
Yes, the Barang Naik thieves are working feverishly to report on the “misdeeds” of PR. They have relegated issues like corruption, abuse of power, Altantuya case, etc to the inside pages and have front-paged PR issues. They even fan racial and religious sentiments.
To PR folks: at this juncture where the mainstream press is being manipulated, just watch your step. Saying nothing and concentrating on the by-election is the best policy.
#89 by Freddy on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 12:48 pm
Malaysiakini:
Quote Pengurus Besar Pusrawi Wan Mahmood Wan Yaacob:
“Beliau masih bercuti dan kita tidak pernah mengeluarkan kenyataan bahawa beliau akan diberhentikan. Khidmat beliau masih diperlukan,” katanya kepada Bernama semalam.
http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/87831
#90 by saidwaheed on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 12:55 pm
It is pertinent to note that PAS is the second oldest political party after Umno, formed by Burhanuddin Helmi in 1951. It is natural for them to demand that their leader be appointed as the PM in the event the Pakatan rakyat control the parliament. It is PAS’ legitimate right, don’t you think?
Pas has always been advocating an Islamic state and no one in their right mind would give the leadership mantle to someone who
My fellow Malaysians and Chinese friends, can you tell me the difference between the PAS muktamar and the Umno assembly?
The ceremonial greeting of keris, a harmless act vis-a-vis Islamic State?
YB Kit, you cannot forever be pointing your fingers at the media for perceived misreporting. PAS must be held accountable for what they’ve said to the media but DAP and YB Kit are playing the populists role yet again.
#91 by taiking on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 2:56 pm
The age of a political party would not give the leader of that party any “legitimate right” to be appointed PM. In fact, the age of a party is not even a consideration.
We inherited the British system whereby the leader of the most popular party would become the prime minister.
#92 by Godfather on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 2:58 pm
“It is pertinent to note that PAS is the second oldest political party after Umno, formed by Burhanuddin Helmi in 1951. It is natural for them to demand that their leader be appointed as the PM in the event the Pakatan rakyat control the parliament. It is PAS’ legitimate right, don’t you think?”
So being the oldest political party confers automatic entitlement to be PM of the country should PR win the federal government ? what sort of bullsh!t is this ? My grandmother should become the PM since she was born way before 1951.
That’s the problem with this sort of illogical, uninformed way of thinking. Makes me sick to think that this guy probably went to school on taxpayer’s money.
#93 by Godfather on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 3:00 pm
He probably got brainwashed at the same madrasah that Shahrizat attended.
#94 by emgbrl on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 3:09 pm
Dear Readers,
The picture of the alleged racist teacher was posted in a website recently.Please go to the address below.Feel free to distribute her pics to those who need to see it.
http://www.indianmalaysian.com/sound/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1532
#95 by Godfather on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 3:09 pm
We are all waiting to hear some similarly warped comments from Kasim Amat. No payment yet from Mike Tyson, Kasim ? Didn’t I tell you to be wary of promises from UMNO ?
#96 by emgbrl on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 3:10 pm
Racist teachers must receive their just desserts!!
#97 by Godfather on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 3:31 pm
Wong Chun Wai:
Instead of reporting on PAS and DAP, why can’t your reporters do some investigative reporting like this:
http://rockybru.blogspot.com/2008/08/18-billion-ringgit-man.html
#98 by badak on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 3:38 pm
PAS must realise that they now control 3 states.They did it with the help of DAP and KEADILAN.If PAS thinks that they did it on their own ,then get out of PR now.Go and support UMNO and BN.
It is better then stepping DAP and KEADELAN in the back.
The way i see it PAS and UMNO are made for each other.Why ? because UMNO is stepping the back of MIC MCA PPP and GERAKAN when they had the so call secret talk with PAS.
Like my 5 year old nephew always say ..”” Be a man do the right thing””
#99 by ch on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 3:50 pm
Dear All,
It appears that Pakatan Rakyat doesn’t has in their command a strong media machinery to counter the remarks expressed and published by the media and press apart from several blogs, Rocket, Harakah and Berita Keadilan tabloids. Even then the circulations of these tablods are limited and not within reach for certain segments of the society. Not all could afford the luxury and comfort of surfing the net to checkout the latest on what YB Lim has posted in his blog. But almost all segments of the society could afford NST, STAR, Berita Harian, Utusan, Sin Chew. Another reality is that some people think what is reported on the newspaper is real. This is still the case even in this era of technology.
The recent spate of news on UITM, apparent emblezement by Keadilan members at a nursing college and many others had given the impression that there are no different to UMNO or MCA when comes into power. The UITM case would be played up and manipulated to the hype that Keadilan will surrender Malays rights in exchange of power.
Even the local tabloids and media are showing the ugly side of Anwar’s faces. None of them were shown smiling if you care to watch TV3.
#100 by just a moment on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 4:03 pm
Tomorrow’s Star: Another group of Universiti Teknologi Mara (UiTM) students, this time in Segamat, staged a protest against a proposal for the university to open its doors to other races.
I say, I thought this subject is stale man.Are they going for Gold Medal?
Ok lah, bring all (UiTM) and what have you and stage it in Stadium.
Make sure all signed petition and let PM signed the first one.You all can keep your Uni!! with all our blessings.Next?
But lets move on to other more meaningful stuff. Why waste time money and other resources. Everyone already know how dear you all keep it to yourself. Ha ha so so predictable and typical, too ordinary not worty as news, sorry folks.
Heh, Mark Spitz record smashed by Michael Phelps 13 Golds!!
6.30pm: Malaysia Lee Chong Wei (Non Malay) vs Lee Hyun-il (Kor) –men’s singles semi-finals.
#101 by Damocles on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 4:07 pm
“It appears that Pakatan Rakyat doesn’t has in their command a strong media machinery to counter the remarks expressed and published by the media and press apart from several blogs, Rocket, Harakah and Berita Keadilan tabloids.” – ch
The reason that the opposition lacks any form of freely available mass media is that most of the MSM are owned and controlled by the BN; the reason being that it can feed the public news that is skewed in its favour. Note that that is one of the reasons why Malaysians are so gullible. After decades of being fed pro government news what do you expect?
It’s as simple as that – to brainwash the public at large and voters in particular.
That’s why most IT savvy members of the public prefers the Internet. That’s also the reason why the government is now targeting them.
#102 by badak on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 4:24 pm
PR must print READING MERTIRIALS everyday just to counter BNs propergander news.BN will use every dirty tactics to win..
#103 by sirrganass on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 4:44 pm
LATEST!
(1) DAP pls don’t worry… PAS also “kena” from the Sultan of Perak. No “Pilih kasih” here! But PAS’s ulamak accepted this calmly!!! Do NOT politicize this issue. It won’t hurt. (In future if DAP get something unpleasant from ths Sultan, pls be calm and accept it!) You can’t get everything that you want out of this world, k? Read this:
//Pihak istana memaklumkan bahawa Raja Muda Perak Raja Nazrin Shah tidak memperkenankan untuk Presiden PAS Dato’ Seri Tuan Guru Abdul Hadi Awang dan Mursyidul Am PAS, Tuan Guru Dato’ Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat untuk menyampaikan khutbah Jumaat di Masjid Sultan Idris Shah II (Masjid Negeri di Ipoh) dan Masjid Sultan Azlan Shah, Ipoh, hari ini.//
//Menteri Besar, Dato’ Seri Ir Nizar Mohd Jamaludin berkata beliau menghormati keputusan yang dibuat pihak Istana Perak berhubung pembatalan kebenaran bagi dua pemimpin utama PAS menyampaikan khutbah Jumaat pada hari ini di bandaraya Ipoh.//
———
(2) PAS will be with DSAI at Permatang Pauh: SO? Pas is helping PR!!!
Ketua Umum KeADILan, Dato’ Seri Anwar Ibrahim berkata, beliau amat menghargai komitmen PAS untuk terus bersama dan memperkukuhkan Pakatan Rakyat sebagaimana yang dinyatakan Presiden PAS, Dato’ Seri Tuan Guru Abdul Hadi Awang dalam ucapan dasarnya sebentar tadi.
“Saya juga berterima kasih dan menghargai sokongan PAS, khususnya Tuan Guru Nik Aziz, untuk membantu saya di Permatang Pauh, kerjasama ini amat saya alu-alukan,” katanya (DSAI).
———
(3) MZ Says: Today at 00: 01.43 (15 hours ago) // Hi sirrganass, I am not talking that PAS will join BN. But if PAS leave PR, indirectly , it give support to BN because without PAS, PR can’t formed government in some state. We never said that PAS will Join BN, but if PAS is alone than Corrupt BN will WIN ! Don’t you agree ?//
Answer: Yes I agree. So, PAS and DAP and PKR must strenghten our relationship eventhough at the back of our mind we know that our destination and our actual vision is not alike. No choice but to ACCEPT IT AS IT IS !!!
conclusion: PAS is LIKE “THAT”, DAP is LIKE “THIS” and PKR is like…. ??? Still want to team up? Take it or leave it?
#104 by taiking on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 5:45 pm
I thought our government past and present has been singing songs about our uniqueness, about our racial and cultural diversity, about how wonderful the mix has been to us, about the cross-enrichment the mix has brought about to all in the country.
I now know that they are all lies. I was stupid for I actually believed them.
Now I realise that there are quite a few things which the UMNOputras deem theirs – things which are really untouchable by the rest of us.
I dont need them. Never did. Never will. Let them continue to have untouchable rights.
Yeah. I think I will just concerntrate on Chong Wei vs Hyun-il. I shant waste time on those liers anymore.
VOTE ANWAR IBRAHIM FOR PP AND LET HIM BE PM.
#105 by Tulip Crescent on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 5:50 pm
The Star’s tag of “The People’s Paper” was actually my idea.
It was given to
#106 by yhsiew on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 6:51 pm
PAS MP for Kuala Selangor Dr Dzulkifly Ahmad said the “PR Principles Declaration”, which will be released after 26 August 08, will help resolve PR internal disputes/contradictions as the Declaration contains PR common objectives, PR’s position and stand on issues that affect the party and guidelines for leaders and members in matters relating to speech and conduct.
#107 by imranj78 on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 10:34 pm
yhsiew, I believe the highly anticipated `PR Principles Declaration’ will be just a document that lists down general and generic items. Do you think PAS will abandon its objective of forming an Islamic state? It will be political suicide for them as that is what a majority of their supporters want. Do you think DAP will drop the Malaysian Malaysia agenda? The answer to all these questions is NO!
The declaration, if it ever happens, will be a watered down attempt to showcase the so called `PR unity’ but it will not resolve disputes and contradiction. It will probably be something like a UN resolution – full of generic and middle ground statements that achieves nothing concrete in the end.
#108 by tenaciousB on Friday, 15 August 2008 - 11:33 pm
I absolutely concur with imrans views. This is so forthcoming and will be chaotic to a certain extent unless PAS adopts a non confrontational approach once PR is elected to office. But is that even ‘wishful thinking’, i am afraid not.
The unity of these parties was essentially to overthrow the present ruling coalition, period! Whether they will be able to work out their differences, absolutely unthinkable, when you have an extremist party like PAS it is just impossible. I rest my case.
#109 by antiracist on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 12:35 am
Kenapa YB tak ada dalam perasmian muktamar PAS ? Elergic with Islam ?
#110 by monsterball on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 1:15 am
It is the same old trick…same old twists..same old out-dated idea…used over and over again…to fish votes.
#111 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 7:46 am
“Excessive indulgence in religion and god is like someone sitting at the kopitiam talking cock.” limkamput
It is better than talking to one!
#112 by k1980 on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 8:27 am
There is absolutely no misreporting here:-
http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=24772
#113 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 9:20 am
“Another case of misreporting – misquoting Nasharudin as saying that DAP “yang menentang Islam dari dulu sampai sekarang…”?
When we are placed with the unpleasant truth, we say to ourselves it must be due to misreporting or inaccurate reporting. Why can’t we just accept the obvious?
PAS, UMNO are Malay Muslim parties which advocate Islamo-facism.
#114 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 9:21 am
ooops faced instead of placed
#115 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 9:22 am
They are determined to suppress and oppress all the other races, come what may!
#116 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 9:23 am
So what are you going to do about it?? Stop apologizing!
#117 by Bigjoe on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 10:01 am
On the subject of misreporting. I believe there is an ongoing campaign to divide the opposition. Every chance they get, MSM try to highlight any news that can divide the opposition. You can notice how much prominence they give to the divisive issues.
Also, anyone notice how organized the UiTM students with Khalid suggestion for 10% non-bumi students? The vitriol is very high even though its just a suggestion and no one seem to protest that Dr. M think its also a good idea and he is also a pengkhianat..
#118 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 10:21 am
Undergrad2 has put it succintly. His choice of word is “Islamo-facism”. Is it an accurate term especially the word “facism”? What does Facism connote?
Fascism is a nationalistic, authoritarian, anti-communist movement founded by Benito Mussolini in Italy in 1919. Its main features were pride in the nation, anti-Marxism, the complete rejection of parliamentary democracy, the cultivation of military virtues, strong government, and loyalty to a strong leader. It is a political philosophy and system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship.
Applied in context of a theocratic Islamic state, I suppose the expression “Islamo-facism” means and is intended to mean a political religious organization that is trying to control a particular government, change the Constitution (whether by revolutionary or even initially democratic means of ballot box) to realise apocalyptic visions – “apocalyptic” as meaning something that will bring about some great revelation connected to a transcendent and otherworldly reality that normal humans like us normally are either ignorant or too prosaic to embrace unless by education combined with coercion and force of law.
To the extent such an ideology implies suppression of individual liberties by public morality imposed by the State, the State being controlled by a select group people (Ulamaks and learned religious scholars) knowledgeable of this transcendent and otherworldly reality governed by divine laws promulgated by the Almighty and not laws made by men vis elected representatives through rules of parliamentary democracy, I suppose the word “Islamo-facism” is not that far off, if applied to mean the more extreme version of Political Islam as a political ideology having its roots in Wahhibism that has inspired large swathes of Middle East and Africa after Ayatollah Khomeini’s succesful Iranian revolution.
#119 by swipenter on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 10:31 am
When interviewed by the Sun paper yesterday re publication of the “Herald” our Home Minister Syed Hamid Albar said and I quote “….if you mix religion with politics, then you can create a lot of misunderstandings” This is coming from a Umno top dog Since when has he protested against Umno declaration that our country is a Islamic state instead of secular. When has Umno stopped mixing politics with religion? Talking of political expediency and a forked tongue.
#120 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 10:33 am
UMNO/BN politics would, bottomline, stand for feudal crony capitalism carried out through the hegemony of race and religion…It is not on all fours with Islamic theocracy. Which is PAS spiritual leader Kelantan MB Tuan Guru Dato’ Haji Nik Aziz said that if UMNO were sincere to collaborate with PAS it must straightaway promulgate the Sharia including Hudud and Qisas (implidely) to replace the Federal Constitution and the Penal Code. This is like asking UMNO elites to behave like Nik Aziz, ostensibly pious, frugal and austere in lifestyle. No more I scratch your back and you mine to make money, visists to London casinos incuring debts, Mercedes Benz and Mansions, women and parties. Very difficult lo!
#121 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 11:14 am
Pakatan Rakyat led by Anwar’s PKR is committed to social justice and better governance than BN. However amongst PKR’s group I am sure that there are also closet key figures whose main political ambition is to have power and positions, and make money may be not as flagrant as the other side’s. Look at Anwar one time closest allies – political aide Ezam and business friend S. Nallakaruppan are campaigning against Anwar in Permatang Puah. Many of PKR are ex UMNO following Anwar. The gap then between PKR & its political nemesis UMNO/BN is not really as wide as that between PAS vis-s-a vis UMNO/BN or PAS vis-a-vis its PKR/DAP in Pakatan Rakyat.
It is fair to say that moderate and mainstream Malaysia would prefer a PR/BN collaboration based on objective of power than (a) PR ruling with PAS at helm or PAS & UMNO merger with Hadi as PM based on spectre of “Islamo-facism” raised by Undergrad2.
Of course it remains to be seen whether in such a collaboration for power UMNO/BN will “corrupt” PR or PR will make UMNO/BN better in governance, with less “stealing” so to speak.
A country run by ‘philistines’ (salt of the earth types) of BN and/or PR – the term used to describe ordinary people with ordinary apetites and human frailties to get power and influence in order to get rich so as as to benefit themselves spouses children and next generation – but with some institutional safeguard against too gross an abuse of power and ‘stealing’ – might be more sufferable than a pious theocratic state where there is no individual freedom and sacrificing normal human appetites for the benefits of Hereafter. This is especially when there is no guarantee that the most pious and knowledgeable in religion being human are necessarily immune to the most gross abuse of power when they are in position to do so at the apex of power.
In a case of Reformasi vs Liwat in Permatang Puah byelection, I urge voters to vote for Reformasi esp if it implies better governance. Even if it were a choice of PM based on a very religiously pious PM & Liwat I would, by way of personal choice, choose Liwat, what more an ordinary human being given to human frailties. Civilisation is built on and advances slowly by ordinary people based on huiman frailties led by same types. It not by the exceptionally pious or people privy to divine revelation. The latter types wreck civilisations.
#122 by Old.observer on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 11:51 am
PHUAKL — “There will always be factions within political parties.
If Nasharudin Mat Isa has actually been quoted correctly
(we all know that the MSM is capable of all sorts of journalistic
mischief), he is just mouthing the views of a particular
Malay nationalist faction within PAS.
The question is how big is this faction? My guess is that it is small and that the overwhelming majority of PAS members despise UMNO and will oppose any collaboration with UMNO with all their might.”
_________
Dear Phua,
Factions within PAS – Yes, fully agree.
How big is the faction? If we look at grassroot members, agree it is small.
However, if you look at the senior PAS group who leads the flock, it is getting bigger. The immediate concern is TG Hadi Awang’s position as PAS President. At the moment, he appears to still listen to TG Nik Aziz (e.g. when he was recently scolded for the PAS UMNO discussions). But then, his recent response to the Youth suggestion that he should be PM revealed a lot – that he puts “principles” below party or personal interests. What I would have liked him to say is that he would adhere to the democratic principle (e.g. the party with the largest majority have the right to elect the PM). So, this is dissappointing somewhat, but not completely dissappointing.
#123 by Old.observer on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 11:59 am
alaneth Says:
August 14th, 2008 (2 days ago) at 23: 12.28
There I told you guys that I am all out not voting for PAS as they are all down into establishing an Islamic State although in the GE they did not mention that. Now they are showing & playing their Islamic card. Banning alcohol, gambling is the first step towards an Islamic state. Later Hudud etc…
I have numerous times reiterated that given a choice btw UMNO & PAS, I will make an Undi Rosak as I do not support these 2 parties.
I am for DAP & PKR only, but not for PAS or UMNO.
________________
Dear alaneth,
I strongly disagree.
In the scenario you painted, an “undi rosak” is equivalent to voting for UMNO.
Why?
Because UMNO/BN does not play fair with the gerrymendering, phantom voters, postal votes, money votes, mass media propoganda, biased judicial judgement, etc. etc. etc..
Worse, they are the ruling government for the last 50 years continuously, further making them bolder in corrupting Rakyat’s monies.
This means, that if you view UMNO and PAS equally badly, then, you should still vote PAS at this present point in time, in order to effect a change in government.
An Undi Rosak is equivalent to perpetuating the government, which is equivalent to perpetuating the crime against Rakyat.
Old Observer.
#124 by Old.observer on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 12:07 pm
saidwaheed Says:
Yesterday at 12: 55.57
It is pertinent to note that PAS is the second oldest political party after Umno, formed by Burhanuddin Helmi in 1951. It is natural for them to demand that their leader be appointed as the PM in the event the Pakatan rakyat control the parliament. It is PAS’ legitimate right, don’t you think?
____________
Legitimate right? Obviously not! The age of the party is not necessarily the same thing as the democratic process and Rakyat votes.
#125 by badak on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 12:14 pm
PAS should just get out from PR..Go join BN stop stepping your partners from the back.Please understand that during the last election the non MALAYS voted for PAS because of the PR factor and not because that the non Malays trusted PAS.
No right thinking MALAYSIAN want MALAYSIA to be an ISLAMIC STATE.
#126 by alaneth on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 9:06 pm
I see the trend of our blog members (given a choice) favouring a religiously fanatic party over a moderate more ‘racial’ one which is claimed to be more corrupted.
Put aside PR; to compare, if only given two choices, I would prefer to live in corrupted country who’s leaders can boost the economy to international recognition than to live in a hardline country akin Iran, Saudi or Afghanistan.
I also see PR swinging toward the latter. Again I reiterate that I am a staunch DAP supporter and respect our senior leaders – YB Karpal Singh & Uncle Lim. They are all our on a secular state. But our younger DAP leaders are more bent towards dialog & give-and-take with the religiously intolerant party.
The US does not negotiate with terrorists states like Iran. Isolation is the best practice. I am a Republican.
#127 by sirrganass on Wednesday, 20 August 2008 - 2:11 pm
DAP dreams of having its leader as PM. PKR dreams of its leader to be the PM, PAS also dreams the same thing.
Wow… everybody has dreams and principles. DAP must see Malaysia is run by MALAYSIAN. PKR sees that too. AND how about PAS? PAS has no dream, no objective and no vision?
PAS is like that but DAP is like this. PKR is like… like what? Dissolve all these parties and create a new on with one objective and one vision? No problem?
Luckily it has not been widely reported that DAP wants LKS/Karpal to be PM. But PKR insists DSAI and PAS insists TGHA. Many of you has indicated that you won’t buy the idea of ISLAMIC STATE which is primarily PAS’s demand. And many MALAYS especially UMNO has totally reject Malaysian Malaysia IDEA. Umno even rejects PAS’s Islamic STATE. I’m not sure what PKR wants exactly.
But please be serious whether on not RAKYAT must form this PR since nobody really like PAS. As said by Badak: //badak Says:
August 16th, 2008 (4 days ago) at 12: 14.40 PAS should just get out from PR.. Go join BN stop stepping your partners from the back.//
By now, if PAS’s supreme leader understand Badak’s message, then you will see that PAS will be ALONE, PKR can combine with DAP. Umno, MIC, MCA etc will decide what to do but PAS will never join umno – that is VERY SURE!
PAS will be alone and PR will “hancur” in Selangor/Perak and UMNO will celebrate.
Why???: because DAP (or some of DAP members) fails to accept challenges brought forward by PAS . LKS asked, “when did DAP Menentang ISLAM” without realising that a number of DAP members i.e: BADAK clearly wants PAS to leave. Full stop.
Which risk is better now?