“….//….And don’t dream of migrating to the West because they won’t accept you unless you have several millions in your bank accounts…//…” – k1980 said.

But if I could make “several millions” in my bank’s account(s) in a state (whether you consider it corrupt or Islamic), why would I want to emigrate?

I am looking forward to sell religious paraphernalia and items of personal adornment (veil) especially to Middle East tourists in this Visit Malaysia Year, apply for franchise for Halal certification from IFANCA (Islamic Food and Nutrition Council of America) starting the first halal-certified bakery for sale of confectionaries here..

Chong Jemin’s posed question – “if we are not an Islamic state, aren’t we automatically considered as a secular state (and I suppose vice versa)? Anyone can help clear my doubts?”

The contention that a country is either secular state or an Islamic state is, in Logic, a fallacy described under various names including the fallacy of “false dilemma” or “false choice” or “false dichotomy” or falsified dilemma or fallacy of the excluded middle.

It is a fallacy involving a situation in which two alternative statements are held to be the only possible options (like for eg if something is not black it has to be white when in fact it could also be grey), when in reality there exist one or more other options which have not been considered or for that matter have not been named or identified (unlike colour “grey”).

A secular nation, government or constitution is one that although protects the individual’s right to religion or religious belief of choice, is however neutral, impartial, and not weighted, partial or promotive of any one particular religion over the rest of other religions. Hence taxes & public monies cannot be utilised to promote beliefs, worship or ritual of any one particular religion over the rest whether in schools, civil service or other institutions…

The secular state is “neutral” like a referee and necessarily the practice of any particular religion or all types of different religions necessarily becomes a private matter about which the State or the government will not interfere on grounds that these matters don’t belong to public realm except where the country’s laws are broken.

Also the laws themselves are deemed a product made by collective wisdom of the majority citizentry through elected representatives in Parliament.

Here in a secular state there is a clear distinction between morality and criminal law : what is immoral is not necessarily criminal, the line being drawn on whether there is real tangible harm inflicted on others before the conduct turns from immoral to criminal… When one respects and observes such laws it is because they represent in a democracy the sovereignty of the people by which expression refers to the collective majority will of the people expressed through the ballot and their elected representatives.

Based on these parameters of what a secular state, constitution or government is, Malaysia or Malaysian government (to the extent that it promotes the primacy of Islam) or our Federal Constitution (to the extent it makes Islam an official religion and under its 9th Schedule allows a pletora of laws governing Muslims to be separately made and upheld) is obviously NOT secular!

If we are nort secular, are we then an Islamic state?

That very much depends depends on how you define an Islamic state.

If one defines it to be a country whose majority peoples are Muslims and Islam has influence in a big way and which government promotes strongly Islam, yes Malaysia is 100% an Islamic state…

But if you define it as Osama bin Ladin would or as most other people use the term when describing a state based solely on “political islam” – an Islamic theocracy (more akin to PAS’s brand) – then Malaysia is certainly not an “Islamic state” in the sense that we are not a Islamic theocracy like Taliban’s Afghanistan and even near to Iran or Saudi Arabia.

For in such theocarcies, there is in their purest form no written constitution based on Common Law, no distinction between Executive, Legislative and Judiciary ….

The Islamic clergy and Mullahs and Scholars as a class generally rule or wield power directly in a republic like Taliban Afghanistan and indirectly if a monarchy like Saudi Arabia (because only they know what the law is since all laws are not made by men but derived and handed down by God and laws are based on sovereignty of God and not men’s.

Here there is no distinction between morality and law, private and public realm – all laws and morality are blended into one encopassing one’s whole life and conduct.

Dhimis (non-muslims) may be protected from persecution but that does not mean they have constitutional rights based on secular principles like many of us do here (under articles 5 & 8 of Federal Constitution).

In a theocracy, Sharia, of which Hudud is a branch, is strictly enforced which implies death to apostates, those committing adultery (by stoning or decapitation) or amputation of arm/hands for theft and of course Khalwat for close proximity.

No country is 100% pure secular nation as none is 100% theocracy but in the continuum some are close enough to either extreme to qualify as a secular state or an Islamic state in the sense of an Islamic theocracy.

Malaysia is neither of these two broad categories – secular or Islamic state.

We are a rojak because of the multi cultural, multi religious and racial composition of our peoples and the colonial legacy of a secular constitution albeit adulterated by strong elements of Islamic features.

But because Malay muslims population have increased and becoming more religious since the resurgence of Islam in the wake of Ayotollah revolution in Iran (with all the insistence of going back to fundamentals and the original Islamic state of medieval times based on the more rigid precepts of the “Wahhabi” teachings), we are increasingly gaining more and more features of an Islamic state (in the sense of a theocracy) but in spite of this growing importance of Islam notwithstanding, all things considered on balance, we are still by any stretch far away from being a wholly Islamic state in the sense of an Islamic theocracy in the strict sense of the meaning of the word.

This is not a perfect answer but I hope to give a sense to what Universiti Teknologi Mara lecturer Prof Dr Shad Saleem Faruq meant when he said : “Malaysia is never secular but at the same time, it is not an Islamic state. We are neither here nor there”.

“…//…Other than what he was told….he was taught that suicide bombers go directly to heaven, where they’re met by virgins and lush gardens //…”…- k1980

I wish I had a talk with that suicide bomber on the possible errors of what he had been taught before he went about bombing innocent lives.

What is the point of denying the pleasures of the flesh in this life on grounds that it is sin and yet as a suicide bomber bent on martyrdom covet for virgins in lush gardens in the hereafter?

(Seems like virgins are more highly prized than non virgins as an incentive for martyrs).

Surely what is sin (fornification with virgins) in this life should be also sin in the hereafter just like murder is sin in this life ought equally be sin in the afterlife especially, if I may add, in Heaven, though not so sure about the other side, Hell.

How can one be sure of what happens in the Hereafter ? Even if there are virgins, they may be lesbians and even if it were not the case, one may not have any sex drive to be bothered about virgins in that ethereal state!