Forcible separation of Marimuthu from wife and six children – habeas corpus writ


Forcible separation of Marimuthu from wife and six children - habeas corpus writ

DAP National Chairman Karpal Singh will file habeas corpus application for rubber-tapper Marimuthu a/l Periasamy to be reunited with his wife, Raimah Bibi a/p Noordin and six children (Yogneswary 12, Paramila 11, Hariharen 8, Shamala 5, Ravindran 5 and Kuberan, 4) who had been forcibly separated from him for two weeks by Jabatan Agama Islam Selangor (JAIS).

On 2nd April, 2007, seven officers from JAIS came to his house in Kampung Baru Tambahan Ulu Yam Lama, Selangor and told him that his wife of 21 years was a Muslim and that she and the six children must be placed in a rehabilitation centre.

Marimuthu, 44, had no choice but to let the officers take his family away.

He said an “ustaz” told him to convert to Islam or threatened to charge him for khalwat with Raimah.

Raimah, who returned to help him with the rubber tapping work two days later, told him that Jais had placed the family in the nearby Kampung Melayu Liga Emas, a Muslim Malay populated area, so that the neighbours can keep an eye on her daily activities and prevent her from meeting with any outsiders, particularly her Hindu husband.

Marimuthu said he felt threatened by the villagers’ stares when he attempted to visit his wife and children, and his wife was afraid and refused to come out and talk to him. Marimutu had no choice but to leave that village..

Raimah Bibi is an Indian who is a practicing Hindu. She was once adopted by a Indian-Muslim family when she was small. Her IC had never indicated that she was a Muslim until when she applied for her MyKad when her name was changed to Rahimah Bibi bt Noordin and identified as a Muslim. Both Marimuthu and Raimah did not apply for correction with the National Registration Department (NRD). Birth certificates of all Marimuthu’s children also indicate that Raimah is an Hindu Indian.

Marimuthu said that both of them were practising Hindus and they had got married in a temple according to Hindu rites and all their children were brought up as Hindus.

He said Raimah, who was adopted by an Indian Muslim family, cannot remember her adopted mother and her late adopted father had approved of their relationship.

It is most shocking that there is a lengthening list of cases of families being broken up by religious authorities like the case of Marimuthu being forcibly separated from his wife and six children in utter disregard of the sensitivities and rights of the multi-religious citizenry in the country.

When laws and religions are used to break up families, it is giving a bad name to laws and religions.

Noted constitutional lawyer and human rights defender, Malik Imtiaz have rightly commented on the Marimuthu family tragedy in his blog, Disquiet:

The law requires that the welfare of the children be the paramount consideration. The law also requires that all of us be treated equally. And yet, it would seem that those amongst us charged with the welfare of the nation and its citizens appear to think otherwise.

What justifies tearing a family apart, separating children from their parents? Islam does not. The law does not. How can we even begin to understand the anguish of the father, the mother and the children? How can we even begin to understand that some believe that the law countenances, warrants, such cruelty?

Someone has to be made accountable for this.

  1. #1 by pamelaoda on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 12:57 pm

    Are these people really so deperado? I think this is forcing, right? And why recently so many such cases rises? Have wisdom like what buddha said..if we are fated to meet, you shall come to me not the other way round..
    All the best to DAP and this issue could be settled ASAP..and where is MIC by the way? Unbelievable

  2. #2 by k1980 on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 12:58 pm

    The Talibanization of malaysia has worsened. Raimah Bibi is an Indian who is a practising Hindu. She was once adopted by a Indian-Muslim family when she was small. So was 5 year-old Maria Hertogh, a Catholic who was placed under the care of a malay muslim woman during the Jap occupation and was converted to islam by her caretaker.

  3. #3 by lakshy on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 1:01 pm

    If she is an Indian and a practising Hindu and has not been converted to Islam, then what is JAIS’s locus standii?

    If she is an Indian and has converted to Islam, there is nothing stopping her from renouncing Islam if she so chooses since Islam will not permit her to cohabitate with a non-muslim. She can go through the legal procedure of renouncing Islam and eventually reunite the whole family. As I understand it, it’s only a Malay that is prohibited from renouncing Islam.

    If however she is not a muslim, and has never converted to Islam, then as Malik Imtiaz has written, someone must be made to pay the price for disrupting a family, the anguish of separation, and having to face societal scorn etc. Perhaps YB Karpal can take up the case gratis to highlight the high handed manner in which this case was handled and make it more difficult for a repeat. Someone needs to check the excesses of the religious departments.

  4. #4 by lakshy on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 1:04 pm

    Yes someone needs to check the talibanization of Malaysia. Go back to the basics and practise what the Quran teaches. Not what the Islamic depts professes. We have too many unemployed/unemployable ulamaks who have nothing better to do.

  5. #5 by Loh on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 1:06 pm

    Jabatan Agama Islam Selangor (JAIS) is a government department, and in Bolehland it is the extension of UMNO. JAIS forcible seperates families, and that is following UMNO brand of Islam. May be PAS brand of Islam would be better

  6. #6 by Taiko on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 1:15 pm

    How can they let religious zealots to ‘run’ the country?!

  7. #7 by Winston on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 1:18 pm

    I remembered that some time ago when the idea of having religion included in our identity cards was first mooted, there was so much resistance that it was dropped.
    However, the government has stealthily implemented this when we changed to Mykad.
    They went ahead without regard to the feelings of the people. Like it or not, it was rammed down their throats!
    Why is this government so blatantly anti people? What is the purpose of having one’s religion stated in an identity card?
    To many people, if not most people, religion is just part of their being, not the be all or end all of everything! It is a guide to keep one on the straight and narrow. That’s it.
    The government is creating problems where none exists!
    That this government can last for fifty years, especially when the last twenty-five of it was a downward free fall was beyond imagination.
    Perhaps we qualify for the title, “The eighth wonder of the world!”.

  8. #8 by democrate on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 1:22 pm

    JAIS action is nothing diffrent from the Talibans, so uncivilsed in their teaching! Damed it !

  9. #9 by lakshy on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 1:30 pm

    Actually maybe someone should charge some politician for corruption under syariah law. And have his hands chopped off in application of such laws!

  10. #10 by Taiko on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 1:35 pm

    Winston, I don’t quite understand what you mean by “stealthily implemented this when we changed to Mykad”. My MyKad does not state my religion.

    If I’m not wrong, they don’t have much options to correctly state a person’s faith. I am Taoist and Confucian. How’s my case? Sometimes I’m Buddhist. How about those who keep changing religions?

  11. #11 by mendela on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 1:49 pm

    Taiko,
    Info on race and religion are stored in the chip of Mykad but not printed. One can easily read such info if you have a reader like the Astro Decoder.

  12. #12 by mendela on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 1:56 pm

    //We have too many unemployed/unemployable ulamaks who have nothing better to do.// Lakshy, well said!

    Let send all these Talibans to Guantala Bay!

  13. #13 by Taiko on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 2:16 pm

    Never really bothered about how they are going to identify me on MyKad. I’ll take note of that. Thanks for the decoder hint.

  14. #14 by Careena6 on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 2:32 pm

    and where is MIC by the way? Unbelievable pamelaoda says

    MIC dealing with this forget about it…Semi Vellu has so many things on his mind like how to yell in parliament and what to say when the word toll is being mentioned… same shit again.. bodohland is still fighting about the same silly matter… basic Human Rights.. she has all the right to be watever she wants… these JAIS dudes and UMNO chaps have no other better work,there is poverty,global warming,over- population,epidemic, going around, do something about that la… always fighthing about the same issue, separating loved ones and enjoy watching the whole scenario… sadist morons!!!!! Over the years the number of bodohs in bodohland seems to be increasing… Hidup BodohMOronland!!!

  15. #15 by megaman on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 2:34 pm

    well done Msia .. well done Msia …

    wat kind of message are u trying to send to your own ppl n the world in general ?

    funny thing is … y are the villagers siding wif the religious officers by being hostile to poor Marimuthu ? Wat wrong has he done to deserve this ?

    Gov being corrupted n weak ? can vote them out …
    JAIS being overzealous ? can bring them to court …
    but the villagers doing illegal confinement ? omg … really dunnoe wat to say or do …

  16. #16 by azk on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 2:56 pm

    Get this story out to the international media. Spread it around. Let everybody know how screwed up these people are.

    I can’t help but laugh at these stupid people destroying themselves.

  17. #17 by Godfather on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 3:49 pm

    Another case for the resolution of the civil courts which will, no doubt, have no balls to make any judgement, but kick the ball into someone else’s court. The concept of forcing someone to practise a certain faith is alien to many, but not to most Muslims.

  18. #18 by Rocky on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 4:13 pm

    well we need to find something to do for all these islamic graduates that is being churned out.

    BTW Ustaz…you can’t catch a non muslim for khalwat when he or she is with a muslim person.or is this a new rule?

  19. #19 by lakshy on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 4:30 pm

    [deleted]

    Rocky, my sentiments too, but I dont know if they have changed those rules too! We wont know until they bring someone non-muslim to court over the matter.

    By the way, when JAIS guys go and make raids to entertainment sites, why is it that they only round up the muslim GIRLS? Why not the muslim GUYS too?

    I was in an entertainment outlet in JB with some friends when the JAIJ made a raid. They treated all of us very badly. There were Rela men present with them. All were guilty until proven innocent. Herded all of us into the hall and then took away all our IC’s. I had a muslim friend with me, but he was not taken by JAIJ. Only all the women were taken away.

    Wonder what all the potential investors will think of these talibans.

    Better invest in Singapore or even China or India. Why come to IDR?

  20. #20 by Libra2 on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 4:59 pm

    Ha! the courts again! Kangaroo Courts!
    Our court is no more the defender of non Muslim rights. It will most probably ask the husband to seek remedy in a Syariah Court.
    The rigmarole continues.
    If the judge think he is Muslim first and second the defender of his contitutional oath, then we are in big trouble.

  21. #21 by pongsakling on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 5:09 pm

    //We have too many unemployed/unemployable ulamaks who have nothing better to do.// Lakshy, well said!

    Let send all these Talibans to Guantala Bay!

    Let send all these Talibans to Solomon Island and let the big wave swallow them!

  22. #22 by pwcheng on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 5:20 pm

    To put it in simple terms, this is all about power, not so much about religion. No good religion in the world will allow the disruption of a family where such action itself is a sin.
    To most of us even taking away the birdie from the nest, is already so painful to see the mother bird screaming, what more when it is happen to a fellow human being. When there is too much power society becomes sick.

  23. #23 by mendela on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 5:48 pm

    There is no other better solutions than to put all these Talibans into Gauntamula jail!

    Yes, these people are sick, real sick!

  24. #24 by sani on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 5:52 pm

    Saudara

    The Constitution of The Federation is SUPREME!. Freedom of religion is a privilege guaranteed to all citizens of the Federation. Everyone knows that, muslim or not.

    By the way, for our Muslim friends, thier religion is stated on the Mycard.

  25. #25 by bystander on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 6:24 pm

    Well said Mendela. Bush did the right thing sending these talibans to Guantanamo bay.

  26. #26 by private_undergrad on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 6:37 pm

    Ignorance breeds insecurities and helplessness. The problem from what Uncle Lim has blogged here is that Marimuthu, as a rubber tapper with little or no formal education (assuming of course) and without any knowledge of he and his family civil rights, can only watch JAIS carrying out its ‘duties’ haughtily with utter confusion and perplexed feeling. Have you seen this kind of problem of forced separation crops up in urban areas where most dwellers are educated? Even if it does happen, the victims will surely and readily make a big fuss in the press and mass media as a recourse.
    Kudos once again to DAP for bringing up this issue and lending its assistance to the victims.

  27. #27 by accountability on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 6:38 pm

    the reason we have so many “religious enforcements” in our country is because they are just too lazy, cowardly and incompetent to do other jobs!

  28. #28 by ethnicmalaysian on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 6:57 pm

    Just had a read of Malik Imtiaz Sarwar’s blog. What a truly wonderful, enlightening and uplifting experience, to know that a Muslim can stand up so steadfastly for justice, compassion and freedom. It is Muslims like Malik, Zarinah Anwar, Haris Ibrahim, Farish Noor etc that are beacons of hope in a sea of oppression, abuse of power, greed for power, injustice and bigotry.
    They may be the small minority (or large who really knows?), but deserve every iota of support and encouragement to continue the good fight.

  29. #29 by osaya on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 7:44 pm

    this is outrageous [deleted]. if this keeps up, malaysia is going to be the home of the Islamo Neo-Nazis.

  30. #30 by bbtan on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 8:05 pm

    This is the practice of fundamental Islam. Dont believe? Ask TDM or Aisehman.

  31. #31 by tsn on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 8:08 pm

    Fully agree with PWcheng, this is all about “power” game, just to show to Non-Muslims, Muslims are in control, above you.

    When Deng Xia Peng came out with the idea; “ONE COUNTRY TWO SYSTEMS” for Hong Kong after 1997, Margaret Thatcher praised it as briliant idea, but this system makes Bodohland an idiot to no hope.

  32. #32 by hasilox on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 8:32 pm

    Don’t these clowns know that they are hurting islam more than anybody else possibly can? These clowns are making the mockery out of a holy religion!

  33. #33 by dawsheng on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 8:48 pm

    Again such action by JAIS has tarnished Islam as a peaceful religion. Such action not only inhuman but also will make more non-muslims fearful of Islam, we will be thinking where is the ending of such inhuman practices if not for greater conflict to come. A true muslim should know what is the right thing to do, and I am sure that there are plenty in Malaysia who knows such action by JAIS is unacceptable, hopefully more muslims can speak up and put an end to such inhuman practices.

  34. #34 by pharisee on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 9:20 pm

    First of all, we have to face the uncomfortable fact that Malaysia has Islam for her official religion. Blame our forepoliticians for this. Next Marimuthu and Raimah are rubber tappers. They do not have the status to fight for themselves. Thirdly Datuk Samy Vellu should say something. Gossip has it that his first wife is an estate lady.

  35. #35 by accountability on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 10:03 pm

    Islam being the official religion for Malaysia is NOT an uncomfortable fact – it’s the corrupt politicians and religious zealots who are making it a fearful and oppressive to the general public.

    as far as I know, all religious preach love & peace

  36. #36 by MY VIEW on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 10:16 pm

    Again another one of these …….. what more to write?

  37. #37 by ahkok1982 on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 10:28 pm

    any reporter out there who is pissed off enough, hav enough free time or would like to bring justice out there? juz follow these so called pious and religious officers for a week. take note of their activities n u will usually c tt they do not lead e muslim life tt they preach.
    if those religious zealots were to really b tt zealous of upholding e rule of islam, u will c tt there is juz not enough holding cells for their so called counselling. juz c how many malay muslims out there who are smoking, drinking alcohol, hav close proximity relationships, do not wear tudung or gamble. they would b outnumbered 100:1.
    seems like they r juz targetting non-muslims juz for e thrill of it.

  38. #38 by marcuschwen on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 10:33 pm

    Even Indonesia have more religious freedom than BOlehland. What else can I say?

  39. #39 by Not spoon fed on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 10:34 pm

    If you want to check your religion at your Mykad, insert it into your Astro decoder.

    Someone would find this Registration department is a lousy department because someone would see the religion is not his/her.

  40. #40 by marcuschwen on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 10:35 pm

    “as far as I know, all religious preach love & peace”

    true.

  41. #41 by Not spoon fed on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 10:42 pm

    Give another 30 years, Malaysia still could not be at what Singapore today.

    The present prices and pricesses are preventing themselves from being rational, progressive and smart-minded. Look at present situation in Malaysia, you would know it well.

    Those UMNOputra getting rich by getting government projects and tenders without open tender (like 2nd Penang bridge). Let’s see if Penangites would be sleeping or just kiasu or just coward enough to vote for opposition parties in the coming election.

    You would see the Butterwoth Bus terminal project would be started when election near, next year.

  42. #42 by Cinapek on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 10:44 pm

    Remember the story of the founding of Melaka? And how Parameswara was inspired by the sang kancil that in desperation turned on the pack of dogs hounding it?

    Well, at the rate these sickos are going about their inhumane acts of separating families and traumatising young children, do not be surprised that someday some of their victims will be driven to desperation and desperate people commit desperate acts. Just be warned.

    All it takes is just a simple touch of humanity in handling such situations. Leave them together for the time being until a solution is worked out. If it takes time, so be it and recognise the fact it is so because it is difficult to resolve, otherwise we would not have to face such a situation.

    Do not ever forcibly separate families and destroy the very fabric that holds humanity together. I cannot help but compare this with the efforts that were made to find the missing boy Yin so he can be reunited with his parents yet here these sickos are doing their damndest to separate the Marimuthu family. I do not profess to know Islam but I believe that if it is the great religion it is, it would never have encouraged its followers to commit such evil deeds. This kind of evil could only be committed by man.

  43. #43 by Richard Teo on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 10:48 pm

    After Rayaapan, Moorthy and Subashini case the Indians are still vociferously supporting B.N.When I see the indians at Machap supporting B.N my heart blleds for them. They are marginalised so badly and yet they have no idea why this is so.When will the indians wake up.The same applies also to the chinese in Machap.Looks like they will be enslaved for another generation.

  44. #44 by Not spoon fed on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 10:54 pm

    MIC is just a small party to get near a big party like BN.

    Chinese in Machap fail to see that the basic things have not been implemented by previous state assemblyman and they still vote for MCA which is a puppet party like MIC.

    When government contracts all gone to bumi contractors and they did lousy works, they blame the material suppliers (non bumi) for supplying lousy material (see newspapaer last week).

    The Indian community is totally marginalised and they are sleeping.

  45. #45 by Not spoon fed on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 10:59 pm

    When Malaysia oil reserve finish in 17 years, you could see more “daytime robberies” are to happen in Malaysia. See here: http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/4/17/north/17437227&sec=north

    At that time, we are old and our children have grown up. But thanks God, they would not be in Malaysia at that time and I would be with them in Australia (a fair play country) that welcoming skilled and business immigrants.

  46. #46 by grumpy on Tuesday, 17 April 2007 - 11:18 pm

    I echo Richard Teo’s comments. The sad thing is that over the years many Indians (note that I did not say all Indians) side with the Malays and believe that the Chinese should be blamed for their economic predicament. So, I wasn’t surprised when DAP reported a sudden change of hearts among the Indians when Samy Vellu appeared at Machap.

  47. #47 by cherasusie on Wednesday, 18 April 2007 - 1:18 am

    my experience with the ic department:-

    i did not put any religion in the application form when applying the new mycard.

    the nutty officer insisted that i should have a religion and wanted to put my religion as buddhist.

    i have to tell him that i am not stupid and i can read and i know whether i have a religion or not.

    certainly he was not happy with me and purposely let me wait longer than needed.

    this is one of the sickening treatments non-malays have to put up everyday but do they know?

    you are against colonialism, against apatheid, you help free bosnina, you talk how best islam but do you know that you yourself are probagating racism… i presume unknowingly!

    maju malaysia!

  48. #48 by sheriff singh on Wednesday, 18 April 2007 - 2:07 am

    Can a person put “Atheist” or “Free Thinker” in his MyKad application form?

  49. #49 by HJ Angus on Wednesday, 18 April 2007 - 2:57 am

    meanwhile our PM is busy trying to solve international conflicts of Darfur or rather basking in the OIC limelight and the DPM expounds wonderful theories on our schooling system – don’t forget he also had a hand in the Education Ministry.

    At home the religious department act more like body snatchers than caring custodians of the faith.

    We are surely sinking in the quicksand of tyranny.
    http://malaysiawatch2.blogspot.com/2007/04/holistic-that-sounds-like-our-systems.html

  50. #50 by grumpy on Wednesday, 18 April 2007 - 3:44 am

    HJ:
    We cannot blame him if he is dreaming of getting the Nobel peace prize for his peaceful work throughout the world. At home, no problem lah.

  51. #51 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 18 April 2007 - 3:51 am

    “When will the Indians wake up.The same applies also to the Chinese in Machap. Looks like they will be enslaved for another generation.” Richard Teo

    The Machap Indians did the right thing. They know which side of the bread is buttered. Do you??

  52. #52 by DiaperHead on Wednesday, 18 April 2007 - 6:45 am

    “Can a person put “Atheist” or “Free Thinker” in his MyKad application form?” Sheriff the singh

    You can put ‘diaper head’ diaper head.

  53. #53 by Tai Lo Chin on Wednesday, 18 April 2007 - 8:10 am

    Maybe the answer to Richard Teo’s question in his posting of April 17th, 2007 at 10:48 pm lies in the “displacement” syndrome of animal behaviour raised in ENDANGERED HORNBILL’s posting of April 16th, 2007 at 11:57 am under earlier Blog Thread of “Memories of the colony” by Dr Azly Rahman.
    Loh in his posting of April 17th, 2007 at 1:06 pm said that “Jabatan Agama Islam Selangor (JAIS) is a government department, and in Bolehland it is the extension of UMNO.”
    This is only outward appearance. UMNOputras are there for power and with it opportunities to make quick and large sums of money. Religious zealots are a separate group. They are merely making use of UMNO and its putras for a different agenda. In accommodating zealots, UMNO is riding on a tiger. At this moment the fight against zealotry has to be waged at level of the courts based on the constitution. Whether or not courts got “balls” we are still a nation of laws, man made and not God given, at least for time being. This is only avenue to fight. The Malik Imtiazs, Zarinah Anwars, Haris Ibrahims, Farish Noors out there should have courage to surface and fight, to bring sanity back to our country. The other icon that needs to be heard is ex ABIM boy, DSAR. Where is he? A word from him will go a long way.

  54. #54 by lakshy on Wednesday, 18 April 2007 - 8:45 am

    Mendela, actually just get these talibans to go fight in Iraq. After all they see USA as the intruder. So they can get many virgins if they die in this Jihad…….ohmygawd some of them may even be crazy enough to do it!

    Rocky, my sentiments too, but I dont know if they have changed those rules too! We wont know until they bring someone non-muslim to court over the matter.

    By the way, when JAIS guys go and make raids to entertainment sites, why is it that they only round up the muslim GIRLS? Why not the muslim GUYS too?

    I was in an entertainment outlet in JB with some friends when the JAIJ made a raid. They treated all of us very badly. There were Rela men present with them. All were guilty until proven innocent. Herded all of us into the hall and then took away all our IC’s. I had a muslim friend with me, but he was not taken by JAIJ. Only all the women were taken away.

    Wonder what all the potential investors will think of these talibans.

    Better invest in Singapore or even China or India. Why come to IDR?

  55. #55 by lakshy on Wednesday, 18 April 2007 - 8:52 am

    When you get your IC, if your religion is Islam, it appears on the front of the IC. I had a shock when we went to do my wife’s IC, and while everything else was correct, the religion Islam was printed at the bottom.

    We got it changed with some difficulty at the Shah Alam regsitration dept. They felt that they were right, and we were wrong although her’s was with an indian and chinese name.

    Another probelm with the registration dept is if a name sounds muslim, they may think the person is Muslim. In India, many Hindu girls have names such as Haseena, Suhana, Ashiyana, Sharmila, which may sound Muslim, but are used by all Indians. So possibly the name Raimah which sounded muslim, made the Registration dept register her as a muslim. Wonder if they classified her as bumiputra. If they did, then heyyyyy what the heck, she may as well keep the privileges!

  56. #56 by bbtan on Wednesday, 18 April 2007 - 9:14 am

    “The Machap Indians did the right thing” – Undergrad2
    Do you seriously believe their buttered bread would be more nutritious after the election?
    Tai Loh Chin – Those people at JAIS are not zealots. They are practicing fundamental Islam. Dont believe, ask TDM or aisehman.

  57. #57 by undergrad2 on Wednesday, 18 April 2007 - 10:12 am

    “…we are still a nation of laws, man made and not God given…” Tai Loh Chin

    This is only partly true. The fact is we have admitted God into our lives by way of Articles 3 and 11 of our Federal Constitution of 1957 – the issue is which God, the Chinese God or the Muslim God or some other Gods.

    Having admitted God into our lives by way of His inclusion into our Constitution, we then mess it up.

    We are not even a nation of laws.

  58. #58 by DarkHorse on Wednesday, 18 April 2007 - 10:22 am

    “When will the indians wake up.” Richard Teo

    I guess they’ll wake up when they stop sleeping.

  59. #59 by greenacre on Wednesday, 18 April 2007 - 10:54 am

    Professor Spencer .D Pollard quotes in his book written in 1966 where he states of Mohammad’s thoughts on economics ‘it is better to teach knowledge one hour in the night than to pray the whole night.’ In fact the Professor had praise for Mohammads teaching.
    However the good above turned to something else when Abu Hamid al-Ghazali (aka second prophet) came into the picture. What we see now is the outcome of the teachings and the downward spiral of death & destruction in the muslim world. Malaysia had been spared this but other shifts started with Mahathir with his Islamization in all aspects of malaysian sphere.

  60. #60 by ethnicmalaysian on Wednesday, 18 April 2007 - 12:32 pm

    Rehabilitation camps sound like brainwashing to me. Not very different from concentration camps? Gulags? And heck, we are not talking about WW2 Germany or the Soviet Union. Fascism in the form of religion is rearing its ugly head in this country. And they banned Lelaki Komunis Terakhir? What rich irony!

  61. #61 by Winston on Wednesday, 18 April 2007 - 1:49 pm

    “Winston, I don’t quite understand what you mean by “stealthily implemented this when we changed to Mykad”. My MyKad does not state my religion.
    If I’m not wrong, they don’t have much options to correctly state a person’s faith. I am Taoist and Confucian. How’s my case? Sometimes I’m Buddhist. How about those who keep changing religions?” – Taiko
    To start off, I would like to reiterate that Mykad should not include religion. Now continue reading.
    By stealthily I mean just that – without letting the public know or obtaining their feedback. It was implemented unilaterally. It’s not about whether the state can change our religion, this question never arises in what I said. It’s about the non-necessity of having religion stated in an identity card at all.
    You said that “I am Taoist and Confucian. How’s my case? Sometimes I’m Buddhist. How about those who keep changing religions?”. You have said it! Does it mean that everytime a person changes his religion he should have it changed in his Mykad? Why have religion in the Mykad in the first place and create hassles when none existed? Get my point?

  62. #62 by ah lau on Wednesday, 18 April 2007 - 1:57 pm

    The trouble of the issue is ” what is the definition of GOD ? ” before one could discuss and consider what religion you are professing !

    For any religion to teach that there is only one GOD is the same as telling others partial truth ( or untruth ) because through out history, there were many many gods – no one of some intelligence can disregard !

    The irony is for some samll group of human beings to assume the role of gods – leading to chaos – like the Marimuthu and so many other cases !

    If I recall correctly, the killing of fellow humans in the name of gods may have out-numbered many past calamities put together !
    This feat would sure set to continue, untill the Mighty Science proves otherwise.

  63. #63 by ethnicmalaysian on Wednesday, 18 April 2007 - 2:39 pm

    An earlier post said that all religions preach peace and love. I don’t quite subscribe to this notion that Islam is a religion of peace and justice and it is being given a bad name by zealots and fanatics. A religion is what is practiced by its followers. Without the adherents there is no religion, it would merely be a theoritical concept in a book that has no meaning whatsoever. So I would have no choice but to equate the actions of its adherents with the religion itself, so if the actions are bad, the religion by connotation is bad as well. A religion as practiced is represented by its adherents.

  64. #64 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 19 April 2007 - 5:31 am

    This issue has been sensationalized for far too long and way too much as an “attempt by religious authorities to break up families” when it is really not the case.

    There must be another way of getting public attention so that action could be taken, without a play for sensationalism.

    The fact is these people feel it their duty to protect the constitutional status of Islam viewed as a symbol of Malay political hegemony. The perception is that of Malay political hegemony under threat.

    It is not a legal issue but a political one and as such the solution must also be political.

  65. #65 by megaman on Thursday, 19 April 2007 - 10:08 am

    hi undergrad2,

    I dun see tis as an sensationalized news … altho I do agree wif u on the part of Malay political hegemony and that the religious authorities may not have the intention of breaking up families …

    but the thought of them having the capability and has done so … not once but numerous times is a scary one …

    This is plain WRONG and CRIMINAL !!! yet at the end of the day … after all the suffering inflicted on the affected families .. these goons get away scot-free is RIDICULOUS !!!
    Dun tell me that they are going to be charged in a civil court becoz they won’t as they can argue this is a religious issue that the civil court can’t touch …

    Seems like they have more power than the police or military …

  66. #66 by bhuvan.govindasamy on Thursday, 19 April 2007 - 11:34 am

    Whatever the reason or justification, breaking up a family that has been together for over 20 years is just plain cruel. That such cruelty is perpetrated by the elected government of the day should give us all pause.

    Forced conversions and genocide would not be far behind.

  67. #67 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 19 April 2007 - 7:15 pm

    “I dun see tis as an sensationalized news … altho I do agree wif u on the part of Malay political hegemony and that the religious authorities may not have the intention of breaking up families …” Megaman

    The U.S. Government has laws under its immigration policy that seek to unite families. But today it is deporting illegal immigrants with family members who are U.S. citizens. The U.S. Government has been criticized of doing just that – of deporting illegal immigrant parents, breaking up families and leaving behind helpless children who are born U.S. citizens.

    Their intention is not to break up families but enforcement of immigration laws. But does it matter? Families are being broken up every day with disastrous consequences to those affected.

  68. #68 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 19 April 2007 - 7:22 pm

    The Malays see themselves as being under siege, their political hegemony threatened – and the constitutional status of Islam the official religion threatened.

    The Opposition must be sensitive to this kind of Malay perception if it is to take on the image of a credible Malaysian opposition – rather than a Chinese political opposition interested only in defending their legitimate rights under the Federal Constitution of 1957.

    It must move away from such public perception.

  69. #69 by robert wong on Thursday, 19 April 2007 - 9:30 pm

    Undergrad2, you are right. UMNO is playing race and religious issues until their last drop of blood. Because they knew that the more race and religious issues are being brought up by the DAP or opposition party, the more they capitalised on these. Malay knew that once their race and religion is underseiged, they will flock under their ‘TAI KO’ . UMNO is playing the REVERSE Psychology game every time when election year is near.

  70. #70 by undergrad2 on Friday, 20 April 2007 - 1:27 am

    What is equally true is that opposition parties like the DAP, instead of focusing on issues that concern all Malaysians of whatever race, religion and ethnicity are forced to go on the defensive in defense of the legitimate rights of the non-Malays.

    So what have we got?? Malays who see their religion, the symbol of Malay political hegemony, as being under threat (rightly or wrongly) and an opposition who is forced to defend the constitutional rights of the non-Muslim non-Malays. Both are locked in a struggle that could only lead to a stalemate – an impasse from which there can be no victors and no losers.

  71. #71 by Boneka on Friday, 20 April 2007 - 3:51 pm

    How many more of such abuses are we going to condone? I hope the more than 3000 Indian voters and over two-thousand Chinese voters of Ijok would send a message to the leader of our country who came into power on lies and broken promises that his government “stinks’ to the core.

  72. #72 by DiaperHead on Saturday, 21 April 2007 - 1:02 am

    Have you heard of the battered wife syndrome?? However battered she is, she still refuses to act to stop it.

    Malaysians find themselves in a similar situation.

  73. #73 by Jonny on Saturday, 21 April 2007 - 12:07 pm

    This is what happens when our university ranking drops. Too many graduates unemployable as they’re not competent enough and add value enough.

    So, is good to take them in to be the eyes, ears of the masters.

    And it starts from Mat Rempits as well.

  74. #74 by robert wong on Sunday, 22 April 2007 - 10:39 pm

    Please read some of the articles in http://www.islam-watch.org/AdrianMorgan

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