#1 by monsterball on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 2:07 am
The many sickening ways that UMNO B is using religion to fool voters and bring down Anwar will backfire.
The bribes and giving goodies…to voters..all taken with smiles…but they are no fools now.
They know it is their money stolen by billions and giving back pennies to insult their intelligence.
Internet have open blinded eyes.
What else besides using low class sex show to appleal to Muslims…not to support Anwar.
What else besides bribing and making hollow promises.
Hollow they are…for Najib is proven a liar.
Tiab dare not respond to all the accusations of stealing billions.
Najib …Tiab and Mahathir..take note.
In good laws substantial evidences are enough to convict a person without solid proofs.
But in Malaysia…it is UMNO B laws of the jungle.
If all are truthful people…why all the police…laws..controls?
Time Sarawakians vote like Sibu folks…to get rid of corrupted hypocrites and bullies.
They are nothing but a band of robbers and thieves..insulting good Malaysians with deals…like..
“you help me I help you”…using your stolen money to keep fooling you.
You have also to be ready to defend/fend off BN’s main weapon for Sarawak – to leverage maximum on propaganda value of Carcosa sex video being concluded “authentic” by forensic experts, with investigation papers sent to AG per IGP (Malaysiakini).
Concerning PKR (Sivarasa)’s renewed calls in demanding that the police arrest the “Datuk T” for “pornography”, the Trio, who are obvious friends of the regime opposing regime change, can easily be defended by government (principal spokesman – Nazri).
Basis & Line of Defence: The pressure to arrest the Trio is greater only if Carcosa sex video were proven fabricated. For then their purpose would be pure malicious and not justifiable on public interest grounds.
If video were proven authentic, then its public showing in Carcosa may be justified as necessary for the higher public cause of exposing the moral hypocrisy of an otherwise popular politician who un-exposed might one day become a PM via misleading the public.
On the argument whether the public showing of video is or is not pornography, the official stand taken will be that it is not.
The argument will be: it is pornography only if the intention of the Datuk T is to make financial profit from the public showing of the video but it is not if it is in service of public interest if not national interest, to expose an issue of great public importance concerning moral character of a popular Opposition politician who may otherwise one day lead the nation if the truth shown in the video were not shown!
Whether an act (like public showing of the sex video in Carcosa) is ethically and legally right and wrong will be adjudged more by the intention of and the context in which the act was perpetrated.
A simple example – the act of killing. It is not bad just because of a life has been taken away. It is unethical and unlawful murder/homicide if the killing is for motives of revenge or monetary gain/greed – but if one kills another in self defence, it is Ok and if one kills dozens of country’s enemies in a war, one is public honoured with a Victorian Cross or Purple Heart being pinned on the left side of the chest or bravery and valour.
The sex video is the greatest challenge the Opposition now has to face.
The only way to fight is or th Opposition to engage its own forensic experts (like the way Selangor engaged Pornthip in TBH’s case) to discredit the authenticity of the video as opined by the government’s “experts” whoever they may be. That is if you are very sure that the sex video is fabricated/superimposed and not authentic. You can’t escape facing the issue because this video will predictably be used as the most important electoral issue of the day not only in the imminent Sarawak Election but the coming GE!
#8 by Godfather on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 8:30 am
Jeffrey:
I beg to differ. That’s exactly what BN wants PR to do – spend all its efforts at discrediting the video and lose focus on the real issue at hand – Sarawak. You know the meaning of fatigue ? They really want the PR parties to get campaigning fatigue with this red herring.
Bustard, real bustard!
Blardy son of a gun!!!
Can give many tenths of millions away to buggers to frame Anwar and millions to buy frogs but now says that due to high cost, subsides have to be removed and ron 97 increased to another 20 cents.
Stealing and squeezing the rakyat and use those money to feed not only themselves but those traitors, betrayers and human trash as well.
Pretty bad that tsunami and earthquake have wiped out so many innocent lives in Japan.
Should have wipe off those that are here instead.
The sky have no eyes!, the sky have no eyes!!!
If god has given me one wish to exchange with my life, I would really wish for all these greedy and evil buggers here to be wipe out from the surface of the earth.
#10 by limkamput on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 8:41 am
Godfather, I agree with you. I think the intention is to divert attention and if we go along that path, they succeed. Look at the IGP’s statement – the video is authentic – and he stopped it there without elaborating further, preferring to let AG to decide. What nonsense is this, why can’t he say the video is authentic but the actor was an imposter? It is a scheme hatched from the beginning to hoodwink and create doubts knowing the judge in the sodomy trial earlier has thrown out the DNA evidence. By hook or by crook, Anwar must be sent back to Sungei Buloh before the next GE.
#12 by Taxidriver on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 11:46 am
Godfather/limkamput,
I see danger brewing. I think they are planning something more sinister that just diverting attention with the Datuk T Sex Video.
The reason why PDRM is dragging their feet in solving this issue or, shall I say, ‘sleeping’ over the case, is to it in the news for at least before the 13th GE. If the voter sentiment favours them ( meaning they have succeeded in destroying DSAI’s reputation, thereby too weakening PR, Najib will call for the dissolution of parliament. But…….
If from now until then and PR gets stronger, UNMOB will use the ‘nuclear bomb’. Anwar will be found guilty of all the now on-going cases/charges against him. He will be sent to jail. What’s the catch here? Well….. (1)PR will be in disarray (2) UNMOB is not stupid. They got APCO. They will want to see a backlash and mass protestations by the people over Anwar’s unfair arrest. And that is when we can see another new chapter of mass arrests of PR leaders and supporters under ISA, all in the name of “national security”
PR leaders should take every precaution and not play into their hands.
#14 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 12:33 pm
On the argument of fatigue – and the authenticity of the video or otherwise being used to distract as a red herring Pakatan Rakyat (PR) from its electoral campaign in Sarawak – the Barisan National will tell the electors/voters (not only in Sarawak’s but the GE) the following:-
1. PR’s refusal to use forensics to discredit Govt’s version is an indication that PR does not want to confront the truth about the authenticity of the video and what it shows.
#15 by boh-liao on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 12:42 pm
So, it’s justified 2 screen CSL’s poky poke por no openly, so too Pink Lips’ sexcapade n a sul tan’s jolly ro yal poke – all 4 d interest of d public in dis seks starved 1M’sia
#16 by Godfather on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 12:43 pm
You see, Jeffrey’s response is exactly what UMNO wants to use to divert us from the real and more important issue at hand – the Sarawak elections.
First, there is no “Govt’s version”. There is only the Datuk T version, which we know is UMNO’s version. Najib has said that the priority is to determine the identity of the person in the video, but that is hardly the govt’s version. The Datuk T version, which is supported by UMNO, is that Anwar must prove his innocence.
Second, PR has never refused to use forensics. It’s just that PR will not support anything that makes a mockery of the “guilty until proven innocent” doctrine of UMNO. When the time comes, i.e. when UMNO decides that it is indeed Anwar in the video, and that therefore they bring charges against Anwar for making a false police report, then -and only then – will forensics come into play.
#17 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 12:44 pm
2. If fatigue were a reason, it is strange that Selangor PR does not evince same fatigue to fight the cause of Teoh Beng Hock (TBH) when it spends time effort and money to engage Dr Pornthip. Even in Lingam video’s case PR PR has no problem to clamor with alacrity a Royal Commission and call for foreign experts to verify authenticity of “looks like me, sounds like me but not me” in the interest of Truth and it is strange that PR does not apply same standards here: why????
3. Could Fatique & distraction be plausible excuses? What else is more important to PR than rebutting the allegations in the video against PR’s leader itself, now in issue? Isn’t vindicating PR’s leader from allegations by independent scientific/forensic evidence against that provided by government is as important, if not more important, that (say) the truth of TBH’s death and Lingam’s video that PR dedicates itself to ferret out the truth?
That these points will be posed to electorate is inescapable and have to be addressed satisfactorily. Failure to do so gives tremendous boost to BN’s propaganda and invites adverse public inference that the video is true.
#18 by Godfather on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 12:56 pm
“Failure to do so gives tremendous boost to BN’s propaganda and invites adverse public inference that the video is true.”
The public inference is that the video is fake. Nothing that the Datuk T trio says has any traction with the rakyat – after all, one was charged with having sex with a minor, and the other two are known commission agents.
If I didn’t know any better, I would think that our lawyer friend here wants to steer us into the UMNO morass at the expense of bigger issues.
#19 by Godfather on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 12:58 pm
Jeffrey does his usual “on the one hand it is this, and on the other hand….” stunt again. We are only focused on the Sarawak elections, and we don’t want to be distracted by all the “prove your innocence” theories.
#20 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:00 pm
Re Godfather’s posting in #14.
///to divert us from the real and more important issue at hand – the Sarawak elections/// – In terms of what’s at stake Sarawak’s state elections is but battle but the GE is the War.
///First, there is no “Govt’s version”. There is only the Datuk T version, which we know is UMNO’s version/// – It is government’s version because the IGP says the video is authentic backed by local forensic experts. Therefore to rebut local forensics that is of suspect independence, one has to resort to foreign independent ones.
///Second, PR has never refused to use forensics///. – So far PR has not said it will use that either. In fact it is dismissive of RCI.
#21 by Godfather on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:02 pm
The rakyat is focused on corruption, and not on who is having sex with whom. Some PR supporter can easily circulate a grainy picture of the Mongolian, the No. 1 guy and Razak Baginda having dinner in a Paris restaurant, and we should then ask for a RCI to prove the innocence of the No. 1 guy ?
#22 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:04 pm
///It’s just that PR will not support anything that makes a mockery of the “guilty until proven innocent” doctrine of UMNO./// – If forensics were resorted to in “innocent until proven guilty” doctrine, more so it should be used to counter “guilty until proven innocent” doctrine.
///When the time comes, i.e. when UMNO decides that it is indeed Anwar in the video, and that therefore they bring charges against Anwar for making a false police report, then -and only then – will forensics come into play///. – They are interested in charging Anwar. They are only interested in discrediting his moral position. If you wait for the day he is to be charged – to get forensics – you’ll wait forever and meanwhile his standing will be tarnished for lack o scientific evidence to rebut the purported one tendered by UMNO/Govt.
Re posting #16. It does not help you dismiss what I say as stunt. The question you should think is whether what I say will be raised in both Sarawak & GE at PR’s great cost.
#25 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:09 pm
///The rakyat is focused on corruption, and not on who is having sex with whom/// – Godfather.
The fact that rakyat is focused on corruption does not imply they think moral character of leader is of no consequence in their choices.
I personally don’t think a person’s private sexual behviour bears direct relationship with his elibility to be leader but I am an extreme minority here, not only in terms o rakyat voters but even in this blog in which I had countless arguments with many here over CSL’s, Zaki’s or Elizabeth Wong’s publicised indiscretions (that I defended).
#26 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:13 pm
Sorry, typo omission in #19 – “….They are NOT interested in charging Anwar… They are only interested in discrediting his moral position (s leader of nation)…”
#27 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:18 pm
///Do you know who are the local “forensic experts” Jeffrey ? I will tell you that one of them is a local movie producer/// – Godfather.
Are you sure? If thats really the case it is even more compelling a reason for PR to conclusively dismiss the adverse allegation by engaging an ‘authentic’ forensic expert to confirm the video is doctored rather than ignore the issuie which will construed otherwise as denial of wanting to know the truth.
#28 by Godfather on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:28 pm
The video is authentic, counselor, nobody is denying that the video is “doctored”. It is just that the actor resembles Anwar, the Trio says it’s Anwar, Anwar says it is not him, UMNO is not sure, but is hoping for the best.
#30 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:34 pm
I meant “doctored” or not “doctored” in general non technical sense of it being established – not by yours nd mine naked eye- but by those who are experts in such analysis to establish whether (1) the video hs been tampered and (2) if not whether the actor in it is the political personality that it purports to show, having regard to the actor’s movments body structure and behavorial trait.
#31 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:40 pm
” I mean nobody is claiming that the video is doctored.” – Godfather.
I refer to the The MalaysinInsider report by Syed Mu’az Syed Putra 21st March in which the word “doctored” was allegedly used by PR leaders.
The report said : “Pakatan Rakyat (PR) leaders have denied that the man in a sex video that emerged today is Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim, saying that the video was doctored.” I suppose the word “doctored” is meant in the sense I said above.
The Oscar winning film was also “doctored”, with Ben Kingsley portraying the mahatma. But Ghandi wads dead and so he did not protest. So were the films “Lawrence of Arabia”, “McArthur”, “The Last Emperor” — all doctored by hollywood
In 1977, Abdul Rahman became the chairman of The Star, a newspaper which was banned in 1987 by Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad because of its provoking columns that were harshly critical of the Malaysia’s government. Following a rift with in UMNO, he unsuccessfully tried to establish a new party UMNO Malaysia. In the general election of 1990, Abdul Rahman actively participated and widely campaigned against Mahathir Mohamad despite his worsening health. He died on 6 December 1990, aged eighty seven and his body was buried at the Langgar Royal Mausoleum in Alor Star.
***************************************
f I am opposition leader
I will explain to people the founder UMNO have destroyed
The new U*NO now was created by founder enemy Dr M
Once Malaysians realized that anyone support Tunku enemy will be named Founder Tunku enemy/traitor.
The BN may worry the opposition purse to carry the founder Tunku name and name BN as Tunku enemy.
Caused these will destroy them in a battle field between founder Tunku and his enemy Dr M, Dr M crony.
#34 by Godfather on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:50 pm
For conspiracy theorists like Jeffrey, here’s one scenario why UMNO is caught between a rock and a hard place.
Anwar knows he is being tailed by Special Branch 24 hours a day. So he sets up this elaborate camera network in a service suite room and gets a lookalike to go to this place on 21 February with a prostitute. A few hours afterward, Anwar calls this commission agent, whom Anwar knows can even sell his grandmother down the river, and says that he has just been to this hotel, and he has left his Omega watch behind, and if this commission agent would retrieve it for Anwar. While searching the room, he conveniently finds the videocamera, and therefore the tape.
So now this commission agent contacts Tambi Chik and the Perkasa treasurer and says that he has damning evidence of Anwar committing a serious crime. The Trio view the tape, plus the Omega watch, and they decide to go to Najib. Najib asks Special Branch where Anwar was on 21 February, and the reply was that they followed him to the hotel. So Najib and Hishamuddin now thinks they have a watertight case, but they would keep it under wraps for now. In the meantime, they told the Trio to show the video to PKR lawmakers and get them to defect.
The rest is history.
So now, if you were Anwar, what would you do ? Play along with them, because you know you have a winning hand. They want to escalate it, you will also escalate it. You will subtly wear YOUR omega watch to a public function.
In the meantime, the Police is at a dead end, because the video cannot prove or disprove the identity of the person. Anwar has made a police report saying it is not him. UMNO is now caught between a rock and a hard place. Can they really trust the Datuk T trio ? They will certainly go all out to protect the trio, but what next ?
Talking about moral compass, what about the No. 1 guy having a romp in PD with a former TV3 presenter and was caught on camera ? How about some ministers bringing their girlfriends on trips to Europe and Australia ? to Medan, Bandung and Surabaya ? How about the CSL video where he was even elected as president of his party in the aftermath ?
I think I have said enough – and it’s time to let others weigh in on the real topic at hand : the Sarawak tsunami.
#35 by limkamput on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 2:16 pm
Jeffrey, there is no need to debate long and wide. May be you are the agent of diversion. If video is authentic and if the actor is genuine, do you think this government will let it drags on? By now, the video would have been made available to the whole world and probably anwar hauled up to the syariah court. I have always maintained that you are proabably smarter than most here, but if the principle is compromised, that is different matter altogether.
#36 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 2:36 pm
Lim Kam Put, as usual, you misinterpret your prejudice for principles and instead of addressing issues objectively and dispassionately, you have penchant to make uncalled for innuendoes (eg “agent of diversion” and “but if the principle is compromised”) on personal basis, behaving no matter than those UMNO guys you so criticise as being intelllectually bankrupt.
Your comment ( aimed at attacking the messenger than grappling with the message) therefore is a frequent low that admits no rational engagement and your chain of reasoning (judging from hypotheticals you raise) is such that you would have served your own higher interest had you exercised the right to remain silent (against self incimination) instead of leaving behind the stain of such comment.
#37 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 2:42 pm
“agent of diversion” and “but if the principle is compromised”?? – Lim Kam Put
Its you who misinterpret prejudice for principles. That’s why your comment laden with personal innuendoes instead of addressing the issues deserve no rational engagement. Your chain of reasoning (judging from hypotheticals you raise) is such that you would have served your own higher interest had you exercised the right to remain silent (against self incimination).
#38 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 2:51 pm
Deal with facts not hypothetical(s)
The hypothetical “do you think this government will let it drags on? By now, the video would have been made available to the whole world and probably anwar hauled up to the syariah court” is useless. Its reasoning does not show anything. Who knows its not their intention to haul him in Syariah Court. Its just to discredit his moral position as a leader. On making it available for the whole world does the govt need to do this to achieve its objective of discrediting him in eyes of domestic constituency? Can a govt be seen making available such a video even if authentic for whole world to see? How by loading it in YouTube?
Do you think those invoved are that stupid to produce a fake video.Common sense will tell you the video is authentic Mr IGP But what about the the pornographic actor who can easily put on a rubber mask resembling the opposition leader and with a fleeting view in an partly darkened room black and white video surely looked like its him.Please for God sake dont take Malaysians to be that gullible and stupid to beleive such desperate cooked up fairy video by those crooks who should be charged in a court if there is any fairness in the implementation of the sacred law of our beloved country where everybody should be Equal.I can only conclude that this one episode is created in view of the Sarawak state election and possibly the 13GE in the not to distant future to distract the voters by hook or by crook BN must win to deprive the Pakatan Rakyat a chance to take over Putrajaya But God is Great the treachery commited by the BN crooks will not escape the punishment of the Law when the times comes.
#40 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 3:04 pm
If one of the Trio (Datuk T) were also in the video, can one raise a hypothetical question along these lines: “if the actor were not really the Opposition leader would one of the trio entrapping him, risk his own reputation and pay the reputational price by being also seen in the same controversial video as the opposition leader? – therefore this shows the video is authentic.”
See how how another 2nd hypothethical can be spun around to reach a different conclusion from the first hypothetical. But isn’t vthis nonsense?
Hypotheticals are hypotheticals. By nature it is intellectually dishonest to use a hypothetical and reason from it to try prove or disprove a fact.
#41 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 3:17 pm
Lim Kam Put’s first hypothetical (the govt dragging the issue, not exposing for now to world or filing charge in Syariah Court) no more proves the likelihood of the actor not being the opposition leader than the second hypothetical (proceeding on the assumption that one of the trio in the same video) proving that the actor is that leader. And the reason for that is that hypotheticals proceed on premises that allow alternative explanations than necessarily the conclusion that one who raises the hypothetical, seeks or desires, by raising it, to draw. To wrongly reason by misuse of hypothetical is already bad enough but to add insult to injury one seeks to use innuendoes to tarnish the one who raises an issue as if they would prove the issue raised is either irrelevant or actuated by a subterranean malicious objective. This double whammy of errors reflects a bankruptcy of thought.
#42 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 3:23 pm
The first hypothetical (the govt dragging the issue, not exposing for now to world or filing charge in Syariah Court) by Lim Kam Put no more proves the likelihood of the actor not being the opposition leader than my second hypothetical (proceeding on the assumption that one of the trio in the same video and therefore would not risk being there if its not true) could prove that the actor is indeed the opposition leader alleged. And the reason for that is that both hypotheticals proceed on premises that allow alternative explanations than necessarily the conclusion that one who raises the hypothetical, seeks or desires, by raising it, to draw.
Jeffery is long winded and try to impress how wise he is.
Godfather cannot stand it.
And I get moderated at #51 talking to the point with vooom power.
So sad….so bad.
I hope from now onwards and until the end of Sarawak State Election…LKS will put out posts with DAP mascot.
Maybe next post…show not head only…but half body and then one more full body of HORNBILL mascot.
Give that toy to all voters while voting.. and they will all treasure it and laugh and vote for DAP.
Laughters are the best medicine for a healthy life.
I love listening to Tony Puah’s latest video.
He is the making of a young Lim KIit Siang…dedicating his life to expose CORRUPTIONS with no fear.
He concentrate of warfare eqiptments costing billions…where USA does not have more than Malaysia.
Come 13th GE..Tony will win by bigger margin.
City life voters are no fools.
However HORNBILLS..mostly in the Sarawak jungle are smart voters..that can swing votes….when time comes…and the time is right for them now.. to show their true colours.
#47 by limkamput on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 4:31 pm
Don’t be smug, almost everything we discussed here are based on conjecture, inference, reasoning and experience. If we don’t depend on any of these, there will be nothing for us to talk about. Whether one makes sense or not is usually based on “degree of reasonableness”. Based on history of pattern of behaviour, if the video is authentic and true, it is my view that the government will fully capitalise on it – show it and haul him to Syariah court – for that will make whatever they intend to achieve more attainable.
#48 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 5:00 pm
Now who is smug? Your response you don’t even grasp the absurdity of your hypothical nor even appreciate the fact it is the govt that chooses how and when to capitalise, which is premature at this stage to say they will not do so. Don’t bother to respond. I am not interested to read argument for sake for argument.
#49 by boh-liao on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 6:04 pm
While ppl r HOT over d seks video here, DAP n PR better watch their back side
A supremely confident NR proclaimed in Pg dat many quarters had expressed their disappointment with d PR-led state goment n wanted CHANGE
NR proclaimed dat d winds of change hv begun n UmonB/BN WILL recapture Pg in d next GE – he yelled: YES, WE R READY, UmnoB/BN ready 2 UBAH Pg!
When Jeffery is angry..watch out.
He speaks alot of sense.
I dare not argue with him.
I shoot to kill….but most of the time moderator shoot me down and shut my mouth.
It is like Dr. Hannabal Lester…mouth tied up…poor fella…but he also will not shut up.
#1 by monsterball on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 2:07 am
The many sickening ways that UMNO B is using religion to fool voters and bring down Anwar will backfire.
The bribes and giving goodies…to voters..all taken with smiles…but they are no fools now.
They know it is their money stolen by billions and giving back pennies to insult their intelligence.
Internet have open blinded eyes.
What else besides using low class sex show to appleal to Muslims…not to support Anwar.
What else besides bribing and making hollow promises.
Hollow they are…for Najib is proven a liar.
Tiab dare not respond to all the accusations of stealing billions.
Najib …Tiab and Mahathir..take note.
In good laws substantial evidences are enough to convict a person without solid proofs.
But in Malaysia…it is UMNO B laws of the jungle.
If all are truthful people…why all the police…laws..controls?
Time Sarawakians vote like Sibu folks…to get rid of corrupted hypocrites and bullies.
They are nothing but a band of robbers and thieves..insulting good Malaysians with deals…like..
“you help me I help you”…using your stolen money to keep fooling you.
#2 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 7:54 am
Yes the BN is also ready.
You have also to be ready to defend/fend off BN’s main weapon for Sarawak – to leverage maximum on propaganda value of Carcosa sex video being concluded “authentic” by forensic experts, with investigation papers sent to AG per IGP (Malaysiakini).
Concerning PKR (Sivarasa)’s renewed calls in demanding that the police arrest the “Datuk T” for “pornography”, the Trio, who are obvious friends of the regime opposing regime change, can easily be defended by government (principal spokesman – Nazri).
#3 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 8:00 am
Basis & Line of Defence: The pressure to arrest the Trio is greater only if Carcosa sex video were proven fabricated. For then their purpose would be pure malicious and not justifiable on public interest grounds.
If video were proven authentic, then its public showing in Carcosa may be justified as necessary for the higher public cause of exposing the moral hypocrisy of an otherwise popular politician who un-exposed might one day become a PM via misleading the public.
#4 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 8:08 am
On the argument whether the public showing of video is or is not pornography, the official stand taken will be that it is not.
The argument will be: it is pornography only if the intention of the Datuk T is to make financial profit from the public showing of the video but it is not if it is in service of public interest if not national interest, to expose an issue of great public importance concerning moral character of a popular Opposition politician who may otherwise one day lead the nation if the truth shown in the video were not shown!
#5 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 8:17 am
Whether an act (like public showing of the sex video in Carcosa) is ethically and legally right and wrong will be adjudged more by the intention of and the context in which the act was perpetrated.
A simple example – the act of killing. It is not bad just because of a life has been taken away. It is unethical and unlawful murder/homicide if the killing is for motives of revenge or monetary gain/greed – but if one kills another in self defence, it is Ok and if one kills dozens of country’s enemies in a war, one is public honoured with a Victorian Cross or Purple Heart being pinned on the left side of the chest or bravery and valour.
The sex video is the greatest challenge the Opposition now has to face.
#6 by hallo on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 8:18 am
If I am opposition leader
I will explain to people the founder UMNO have destroyed
The new U*NO now was created by founder enemy Dr M
I would pursue the founder vision
I know the founder will be pleased I carry his name to battle his enemy and be won under his name
It will be a battle field between founder Tunku and his enemy Dr M, Dr M crony
If I am opposition leader
http://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/tunku-abdul-rahman-93.php
————————————————————————-
These corruption BN’s regime have done bad things to Malaysia founder Tunku PM, Sultans, and then DPM Anwar.
#7 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 8:26 am
The only way to fight is or th Opposition to engage its own forensic experts (like the way Selangor engaged Pornthip in TBH’s case) to discredit the authenticity of the video as opined by the government’s “experts” whoever they may be. That is if you are very sure that the sex video is fabricated/superimposed and not authentic. You can’t escape facing the issue because this video will predictably be used as the most important electoral issue of the day not only in the imminent Sarawak Election but the coming GE!
#8 by Godfather on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 8:30 am
Jeffrey:
I beg to differ. That’s exactly what BN wants PR to do – spend all its efforts at discrediting the video and lose focus on the real issue at hand – Sarawak. You know the meaning of fatigue ? They really want the PR parties to get campaigning fatigue with this red herring.
#9 by Thor on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 8:40 am
Bustard, real bustard!
Blardy son of a gun!!!
Can give many tenths of millions away to buggers to frame Anwar and millions to buy frogs but now says that due to high cost, subsides have to be removed and ron 97 increased to another 20 cents.
Stealing and squeezing the rakyat and use those money to feed not only themselves but those traitors, betrayers and human trash as well.
Pretty bad that tsunami and earthquake have wiped out so many innocent lives in Japan.
Should have wipe off those that are here instead.
The sky have no eyes!, the sky have no eyes!!!
If god has given me one wish to exchange with my life, I would really wish for all these greedy and evil buggers here to be wipe out from the surface of the earth.
#10 by limkamput on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 8:41 am
Godfather, I agree with you. I think the intention is to divert attention and if we go along that path, they succeed. Look at the IGP’s statement – the video is authentic – and he stopped it there without elaborating further, preferring to let AG to decide. What nonsense is this, why can’t he say the video is authentic but the actor was an imposter? It is a scheme hatched from the beginning to hoodwink and create doubts knowing the judge in the sodomy trial earlier has thrown out the DNA evidence. By hook or by crook, Anwar must be sent back to Sungei Buloh before the next GE.
#11 by Taxidriver on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 10:56 am
I is READY, they is READY. Double confirm. Is you READY, pulau sibu? Is your side READY? Double confirm?
NGAT SAYOOOOOOOPPPPPPP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#12 by Taxidriver on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 11:46 am
Godfather/limkamput,
I see danger brewing. I think they are planning something more sinister that just diverting attention with the Datuk T Sex Video.
The reason why PDRM is dragging their feet in solving this issue or, shall I say, ‘sleeping’ over the case, is to it in the news for at least before the 13th GE. If the voter sentiment favours them ( meaning they have succeeded in destroying DSAI’s reputation, thereby too weakening PR, Najib will call for the dissolution of parliament. But…….
If from now until then and PR gets stronger, UNMOB will use the ‘nuclear bomb’. Anwar will be found guilty of all the now on-going cases/charges against him. He will be sent to jail. What’s the catch here? Well….. (1)PR will be in disarray (2) UNMOB is not stupid. They got APCO. They will want to see a backlash and mass protestations by the people over Anwar’s unfair arrest. And that is when we can see another new chapter of mass arrests of PR leaders and supporters under ISA, all in the name of “national security”
PR leaders should take every precaution and not play into their hands.
#13 by k1980 on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 11:47 am
Very easy for BN to win Sarawak. Just announce that if BN loses, the Lynas processing plant will be sited in Kuching.
#14 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 12:33 pm
On the argument of fatigue – and the authenticity of the video or otherwise being used to distract as a red herring Pakatan Rakyat (PR) from its electoral campaign in Sarawak – the Barisan National will tell the electors/voters (not only in Sarawak’s but the GE) the following:-
1. PR’s refusal to use forensics to discredit Govt’s version is an indication that PR does not want to confront the truth about the authenticity of the video and what it shows.
#15 by boh-liao on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 12:42 pm
So, it’s justified 2 screen CSL’s poky poke por no openly, so too Pink Lips’ sexcapade n a sul tan’s jolly ro yal poke – all 4 d interest of d public in dis seks starved 1M’sia
#16 by Godfather on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 12:43 pm
You see, Jeffrey’s response is exactly what UMNO wants to use to divert us from the real and more important issue at hand – the Sarawak elections.
First, there is no “Govt’s version”. There is only the Datuk T version, which we know is UMNO’s version. Najib has said that the priority is to determine the identity of the person in the video, but that is hardly the govt’s version. The Datuk T version, which is supported by UMNO, is that Anwar must prove his innocence.
Second, PR has never refused to use forensics. It’s just that PR will not support anything that makes a mockery of the “guilty until proven innocent” doctrine of UMNO. When the time comes, i.e. when UMNO decides that it is indeed Anwar in the video, and that therefore they bring charges against Anwar for making a false police report, then -and only then – will forensics come into play.
#17 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 12:44 pm
2. If fatigue were a reason, it is strange that Selangor PR does not evince same fatigue to fight the cause of Teoh Beng Hock (TBH) when it spends time effort and money to engage Dr Pornthip. Even in Lingam video’s case PR PR has no problem to clamor with alacrity a Royal Commission and call for foreign experts to verify authenticity of “looks like me, sounds like me but not me” in the interest of Truth and it is strange that PR does not apply same standards here: why????
3. Could Fatique & distraction be plausible excuses? What else is more important to PR than rebutting the allegations in the video against PR’s leader itself, now in issue? Isn’t vindicating PR’s leader from allegations by independent scientific/forensic evidence against that provided by government is as important, if not more important, that (say) the truth of TBH’s death and Lingam’s video that PR dedicates itself to ferret out the truth?
That these points will be posed to electorate is inescapable and have to be addressed satisfactorily. Failure to do so gives tremendous boost to BN’s propaganda and invites adverse public inference that the video is true.
#18 by Godfather on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 12:56 pm
“Failure to do so gives tremendous boost to BN’s propaganda and invites adverse public inference that the video is true.”
The public inference is that the video is fake. Nothing that the Datuk T trio says has any traction with the rakyat – after all, one was charged with having sex with a minor, and the other two are known commission agents.
If I didn’t know any better, I would think that our lawyer friend here wants to steer us into the UMNO morass at the expense of bigger issues.
#19 by Godfather on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 12:58 pm
Jeffrey does his usual “on the one hand it is this, and on the other hand….” stunt again. We are only focused on the Sarawak elections, and we don’t want to be distracted by all the “prove your innocence” theories.
#20 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:00 pm
Re Godfather’s posting in #14.
///to divert us from the real and more important issue at hand – the Sarawak elections/// – In terms of what’s at stake Sarawak’s state elections is but battle but the GE is the War.
///First, there is no “Govt’s version”. There is only the Datuk T version, which we know is UMNO’s version/// – It is government’s version because the IGP says the video is authentic backed by local forensic experts. Therefore to rebut local forensics that is of suspect independence, one has to resort to foreign independent ones.
///Second, PR has never refused to use forensics///. – So far PR has not said it will use that either. In fact it is dismissive of RCI.
#21 by Godfather on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:02 pm
The rakyat is focused on corruption, and not on who is having sex with whom. Some PR supporter can easily circulate a grainy picture of the Mongolian, the No. 1 guy and Razak Baginda having dinner in a Paris restaurant, and we should then ask for a RCI to prove the innocence of the No. 1 guy ?
#22 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:04 pm
///It’s just that PR will not support anything that makes a mockery of the “guilty until proven innocent” doctrine of UMNO./// – If forensics were resorted to in “innocent until proven guilty” doctrine, more so it should be used to counter “guilty until proven innocent” doctrine.
///When the time comes, i.e. when UMNO decides that it is indeed Anwar in the video, and that therefore they bring charges against Anwar for making a false police report, then -and only then – will forensics come into play///. – They are interested in charging Anwar. They are only interested in discrediting his moral position. If you wait for the day he is to be charged – to get forensics – you’ll wait forever and meanwhile his standing will be tarnished for lack o scientific evidence to rebut the purported one tendered by UMNO/Govt.
Re posting #16. It does not help you dismiss what I say as stunt. The question you should think is whether what I say will be raised in both Sarawak & GE at PR’s great cost.
#23 by Godfather on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:05 pm
” It is government’s version because the IGP says the video is authentic backed by local forensic experts.”
Do you know who are the local “forensic experts” Jeffrey ? I will tell you that one of them is a local movie producer.
I think the “why nots” and the “wherebys” espounded by our lawyer is EXACTLY the aim of the expose of the video.
#24 by Godfather on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:07 pm
I rest my case, counselor. I have to give some help to the campaigning in Sarawak.
#25 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:09 pm
///The rakyat is focused on corruption, and not on who is having sex with whom/// – Godfather.
The fact that rakyat is focused on corruption does not imply they think moral character of leader is of no consequence in their choices.
I personally don’t think a person’s private sexual behviour bears direct relationship with his elibility to be leader but I am an extreme minority here, not only in terms o rakyat voters but even in this blog in which I had countless arguments with many here over CSL’s, Zaki’s or Elizabeth Wong’s publicised indiscretions (that I defended).
#26 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:13 pm
Sorry, typo omission in #19 – “….They are NOT interested in charging Anwar… They are only interested in discrediting his moral position (s leader of nation)…”
#27 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:18 pm
///Do you know who are the local “forensic experts” Jeffrey ? I will tell you that one of them is a local movie producer/// – Godfather.
Are you sure? If thats really the case it is even more compelling a reason for PR to conclusively dismiss the adverse allegation by engaging an ‘authentic’ forensic expert to confirm the video is doctored rather than ignore the issuie which will construed otherwise as denial of wanting to know the truth.
#28 by Godfather on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:28 pm
The video is authentic, counselor, nobody is denying that the video is “doctored”. It is just that the actor resembles Anwar, the Trio says it’s Anwar, Anwar says it is not him, UMNO is not sure, but is hoping for the best.
#29 by Godfather on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:29 pm
I mean nobody is claiming that the video is doctored.
#30 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:34 pm
I meant “doctored” or not “doctored” in general non technical sense of it being established – not by yours nd mine naked eye- but by those who are experts in such analysis to establish whether (1) the video hs been tampered and (2) if not whether the actor in it is the political personality that it purports to show, having regard to the actor’s movments body structure and behavorial trait.
#31 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:40 pm
” I mean nobody is claiming that the video is doctored.” – Godfather.
I refer to the The MalaysinInsider report by Syed Mu’az Syed Putra 21st March in which the word “doctored” was allegedly used by PR leaders.
The report said : “Pakatan Rakyat (PR) leaders have denied that the man in a sex video that emerged today is Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim, saying that the video was doctored.” I suppose the word “doctored” is meant in the sense I said above.
#32 by k1980 on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:46 pm
The Oscar winning film was also “doctored”, with Ben Kingsley portraying the mahatma. But Ghandi wads dead and so he did not protest. So were the films “Lawrence of Arabia”, “McArthur”, “The Last Emperor” — all doctored by hollywood
#33 by hallo on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:48 pm
Later Life & Death
In 1977, Abdul Rahman became the chairman of The Star, a newspaper which was banned in 1987 by Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad because of its provoking columns that were harshly critical of the Malaysia’s government. Following a rift with in UMNO, he unsuccessfully tried to establish a new party UMNO Malaysia. In the general election of 1990, Abdul Rahman actively participated and widely campaigned against Mahathir Mohamad despite his worsening health. He died on 6 December 1990, aged eighty seven and his body was buried at the Langgar Royal Mausoleum in Alor Star.
***************************************
f I am opposition leader
I will explain to people the founder UMNO have destroyed
The new U*NO now was created by founder enemy Dr M
Once Malaysians realized that anyone support Tunku enemy will be named Founder Tunku enemy/traitor.
The BN may worry the opposition purse to carry the founder Tunku name and name BN as Tunku enemy.
Caused these will destroy them in a battle field between founder Tunku and his enemy Dr M, Dr M crony.
#34 by Godfather on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 1:50 pm
For conspiracy theorists like Jeffrey, here’s one scenario why UMNO is caught between a rock and a hard place.
Anwar knows he is being tailed by Special Branch 24 hours a day. So he sets up this elaborate camera network in a service suite room and gets a lookalike to go to this place on 21 February with a prostitute. A few hours afterward, Anwar calls this commission agent, whom Anwar knows can even sell his grandmother down the river, and says that he has just been to this hotel, and he has left his Omega watch behind, and if this commission agent would retrieve it for Anwar. While searching the room, he conveniently finds the videocamera, and therefore the tape.
So now this commission agent contacts Tambi Chik and the Perkasa treasurer and says that he has damning evidence of Anwar committing a serious crime. The Trio view the tape, plus the Omega watch, and they decide to go to Najib. Najib asks Special Branch where Anwar was on 21 February, and the reply was that they followed him to the hotel. So Najib and Hishamuddin now thinks they have a watertight case, but they would keep it under wraps for now. In the meantime, they told the Trio to show the video to PKR lawmakers and get them to defect.
The rest is history.
So now, if you were Anwar, what would you do ? Play along with them, because you know you have a winning hand. They want to escalate it, you will also escalate it. You will subtly wear YOUR omega watch to a public function.
In the meantime, the Police is at a dead end, because the video cannot prove or disprove the identity of the person. Anwar has made a police report saying it is not him. UMNO is now caught between a rock and a hard place. Can they really trust the Datuk T trio ? They will certainly go all out to protect the trio, but what next ?
Talking about moral compass, what about the No. 1 guy having a romp in PD with a former TV3 presenter and was caught on camera ? How about some ministers bringing their girlfriends on trips to Europe and Australia ? to Medan, Bandung and Surabaya ? How about the CSL video where he was even elected as president of his party in the aftermath ?
I think I have said enough – and it’s time to let others weigh in on the real topic at hand : the Sarawak tsunami.
#35 by limkamput on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 2:16 pm
Jeffrey, there is no need to debate long and wide. May be you are the agent of diversion. If video is authentic and if the actor is genuine, do you think this government will let it drags on? By now, the video would have been made available to the whole world and probably anwar hauled up to the syariah court. I have always maintained that you are proabably smarter than most here, but if the principle is compromised, that is different matter altogether.
#36 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 2:36 pm
Lim Kam Put, as usual, you misinterpret your prejudice for principles and instead of addressing issues objectively and dispassionately, you have penchant to make uncalled for innuendoes (eg “agent of diversion” and “but if the principle is compromised”) on personal basis, behaving no matter than those UMNO guys you so criticise as being intelllectually bankrupt.
Your comment ( aimed at attacking the messenger than grappling with the message) therefore is a frequent low that admits no rational engagement and your chain of reasoning (judging from hypotheticals you raise) is such that you would have served your own higher interest had you exercised the right to remain silent (against self incimination) instead of leaving behind the stain of such comment.
#37 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 2:42 pm
“agent of diversion” and “but if the principle is compromised”?? – Lim Kam Put
Its you who misinterpret prejudice for principles. That’s why your comment laden with personal innuendoes instead of addressing the issues deserve no rational engagement. Your chain of reasoning (judging from hypotheticals you raise) is such that you would have served your own higher interest had you exercised the right to remain silent (against self incimination).
#38 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 2:51 pm
Deal with facts not hypothetical(s)
The hypothetical “do you think this government will let it drags on? By now, the video would have been made available to the whole world and probably anwar hauled up to the syariah court” is useless. Its reasoning does not show anything. Who knows its not their intention to haul him in Syariah Court. Its just to discredit his moral position as a leader. On making it available for the whole world does the govt need to do this to achieve its objective of discrediting him in eyes of domestic constituency? Can a govt be seen making available such a video even if authentic for whole world to see? How by loading it in YouTube?
#39 by habis on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 3:02 pm
Do you think those invoved are that stupid to produce a fake video.Common sense will tell you the video is authentic Mr IGP But what about the the pornographic actor who can easily put on a rubber mask resembling the opposition leader and with a fleeting view in an partly darkened room black and white video surely looked like its him.Please for God sake dont take Malaysians to be that gullible and stupid to beleive such desperate cooked up fairy video by those crooks who should be charged in a court if there is any fairness in the implementation of the sacred law of our beloved country where everybody should be Equal.I can only conclude that this one episode is created in view of the Sarawak state election and possibly the 13GE in the not to distant future to distract the voters by hook or by crook BN must win to deprive the Pakatan Rakyat a chance to take over Putrajaya But God is Great the treachery commited by the BN crooks will not escape the punishment of the Law when the times comes.
#40 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 3:04 pm
If one of the Trio (Datuk T) were also in the video, can one raise a hypothetical question along these lines: “if the actor were not really the Opposition leader would one of the trio entrapping him, risk his own reputation and pay the reputational price by being also seen in the same controversial video as the opposition leader? – therefore this shows the video is authentic.”
See how how another 2nd hypothethical can be spun around to reach a different conclusion from the first hypothetical. But isn’t vthis nonsense?
Hypotheticals are hypotheticals. By nature it is intellectually dishonest to use a hypothetical and reason from it to try prove or disprove a fact.
#41 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 3:17 pm
Lim Kam Put’s first hypothetical (the govt dragging the issue, not exposing for now to world or filing charge in Syariah Court) no more proves the likelihood of the actor not being the opposition leader than the second hypothetical (proceeding on the assumption that one of the trio in the same video) proving that the actor is that leader. And the reason for that is that hypotheticals proceed on premises that allow alternative explanations than necessarily the conclusion that one who raises the hypothetical, seeks or desires, by raising it, to draw. To wrongly reason by misuse of hypothetical is already bad enough but to add insult to injury one seeks to use innuendoes to tarnish the one who raises an issue as if they would prove the issue raised is either irrelevant or actuated by a subterranean malicious objective. This double whammy of errors reflects a bankruptcy of thought.
#42 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 3:23 pm
The first hypothetical (the govt dragging the issue, not exposing for now to world or filing charge in Syariah Court) by Lim Kam Put no more proves the likelihood of the actor not being the opposition leader than my second hypothetical (proceeding on the assumption that one of the trio in the same video and therefore would not risk being there if its not true) could prove that the actor is indeed the opposition leader alleged. And the reason for that is that both hypotheticals proceed on premises that allow alternative explanations than necessarily the conclusion that one who raises the hypothetical, seeks or desires, by raising it, to draw.
#43 by monsterball on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 3:23 pm
Jeffery is long winded and try to impress how wise he is.
Godfather cannot stand it.
And I get moderated at #51 talking to the point with vooom power.
So sad….so bad.
#44 by monsterball on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 3:32 pm
I hope from now onwards and until the end of Sarawak State Election…LKS will put out posts with DAP mascot.
Maybe next post…show not head only…but half body and then one more full body of HORNBILL mascot.
Give that toy to all voters while voting.. and they will all treasure it and laugh and vote for DAP.
Laughters are the best medicine for a healthy life.
#45 by monsterball on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 3:39 pm
I love listening to Tony Puah’s latest video.
He is the making of a young Lim KIit Siang…dedicating his life to expose CORRUPTIONS with no fear.
He concentrate of warfare eqiptments costing billions…where USA does not have more than Malaysia.
Come 13th GE..Tony will win by bigger margin.
City life voters are no fools.
#46 by monsterball on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 3:42 pm
However HORNBILLS..mostly in the Sarawak jungle are smart voters..that can swing votes….when time comes…and the time is right for them now.. to show their true colours.
#47 by limkamput on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 4:31 pm
Don’t be smug, almost everything we discussed here are based on conjecture, inference, reasoning and experience. If we don’t depend on any of these, there will be nothing for us to talk about. Whether one makes sense or not is usually based on “degree of reasonableness”. Based on history of pattern of behaviour, if the video is authentic and true, it is my view that the government will fully capitalise on it – show it and haul him to Syariah court – for that will make whatever they intend to achieve more attainable.
#48 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 5:00 pm
Now who is smug? Your response you don’t even grasp the absurdity of your hypothical nor even appreciate the fact it is the govt that chooses how and when to capitalise, which is premature at this stage to say they will not do so. Don’t bother to respond. I am not interested to read argument for sake for argument.
#49 by boh-liao on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 6:04 pm
While ppl r HOT over d seks video here, DAP n PR better watch their back side
A supremely confident NR proclaimed in Pg dat many quarters had expressed their disappointment with d PR-led state goment n wanted CHANGE
NR proclaimed dat d winds of change hv begun n UmonB/BN WILL recapture Pg in d next GE – he yelled: YES, WE R READY, UmnoB/BN ready 2 UBAH Pg!
#50 by monsterball on Saturday, 2 April 2011 - 6:38 pm
When Jeffery is angry..watch out.
He speaks alot of sense.
I dare not argue with him.
I shoot to kill….but most of the time moderator shoot me down and shut my mouth.
It is like Dr. Hannabal Lester…mouth tied up…poor fella…but he also will not shut up.