By Azly Rahman
The article below, from The Seattle Times and which was linked to the online publication of the National Educational Association (NEA) should be of interest to Malaysian educators teaching Mathematics.
Costructivism as a paradigm of teaching and learning has been around for quite some time and infused in many a school in the advanced countries. Constructivism is drawn from the work of Socrates, Piaget, and Brain Science theorists. It is essentially Deweyian in philosophy as well..
The superiority of the Singapore education system is something the Singaporeans have worked hard to build.
Essentially the Singapore Malays, arguably have learned the meaning of affirmative action and meritocracy well. The idea of “Mendaki” as a means to help the academically underachieving Malays in the city-state is admirable, perceived from an educational standpoint. Born in Alexander Road Singapore and growing up in Johor Bahru, I have always been fascinated by the way the Singaporeans run their city-state. As a teenager , I spend my weekends roaming the streets of Singapore, fascinated by the buildings, the food stalls, the bargain stores, the movie theaters, and how law is enforced.
Political and historical ego aside, Malaysian educationists must start looking across the causeway to find solutions to the educational system that needs constant improvement.
We have a world-class education system in our neighbour.
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The secret of Schmitz Park Elementary School is Singapore Math
One elementary school in Seattle — Schmitz Park Elementary — bucks the trend toward reform or constructivist math by offering Singapore Math, writes Seattle Times columnist Bruce Ramsey
By Bruce Ramsey
Seattle Times editorial columnist
Sally made 500 gingerbread men. She sold 3/4 of them and gave away 2/5 of the remainder. How many did she give away?
This was one of the homework questions in Craig Parsley’s fifth-grade class. The kids are showing their answers on the overhead projector. They are in a fun mood, using class nicknames. First up is “Crackle,” a boy. The class hears from “Caveman,” “Annapurna,” “Shortcut” and “Fred,” a girl.
Each has drawn a ruler with segments labeled by number — on the problem above, “3/4,” “2/5″ and “500.” Below the ruler is some arithmetic and an answer.
“Who has this as a single mathematical expression? Who has the guts?” Parsley asks. No one, yet — but they will.
This is not the way math is taught in other Seattle public schools. It is Singapore Math, adopted from the Asian city-state whose kids test at the top of the world. Since the 2007-08 year, Singapore Math has been taught at Schmitz Park Elementary in West Seattle — and only there in the district.
In the war over school math — in which a judge recently ordered Seattle Public Schools to redo its choice of high-school math — Schmitz Park is a redoubt or, it hopes, a beachhead. North Beach is a redoubt for Saxon Math, a traditional program. Both schools have permission to be different. The rest of the district’s elementary schools use Everyday Math, a curriculum influenced by the constructivist or reform methods.
Reform math is known for several things. Instead of showing kids how to solve a problem, which Singapore Math does, reform math has them work in groups to discover ways to solve it. It wants them to explain how they did it, sometimes using a special vocabulary.
Sabrina Kovacs-Storlie, a supplemental math teacher at Schmitz Park, taught reform math for several years. “It is full of words,” she says. “So many words.”
Reform math also aims at exposing kids to advanced concepts at an early age. As a result, it jumps around. Kovacs-Storlie opens an Everyday Math book. Here is a lesson on calculating the perimeter of a shape. Next is a lesson about probability.
“It is teaching to exposure,” she says. “We are teaching to mastery.”
Schmitz Park’s curriculum is more like the math parents remember. They came out big for Math Night a few weeks ago. Their PTA pays for the Singapore books — and also for Kovacs-Storlie’s salary.
Test results are encouraging. At Schmitz Park, 86 percent of the fifth-graders passed the WASL test in math, compared with 68 percent districtwide. At Schmitz Park, 67 percent passed with a Level 4 (high) result. Seattle schools have different mixes of kids and show a wide variation in math scores. Some schools did better than Schmitz Park. Most did worse.
Curriculum is not the only factor. Another is the enthusiasm of the teachers, which Garrit Kischner, Schmitz Park’s principal, says this curriculum has. Being among rebels, and having to prove something, can be invigorating.
The kids sense it, too. One of the girls in Parsley’s class says proudly that hers is the only school in Seattle with this math.
Next year, these kids will be at Madison Middle School. They will have the reform math. Kathleen Myers, who teaches sixth-grade math there, says the Schmitz Park kids will do all right. They are very good at solving problems.
Of the Schmitz Park curriculum, she says, “I’m happy with it.” Two of her kids are there.
SOURCE: The Seattle Times
#1 by Godfather on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 7:39 am
Oh no ! Another article extolling the “superiority” of Singapore. This is bound to get UMNOputras like chengho and Kasim Amat hopping mad.
Azly, you should be aware that many Malaysian parents already buy Singapore textbooks to tutor their kids because we know that this is what is needed to give them a headstart in Cambridge or Oxford or Imperial or Yale or Columbia. That’s why our “homegrown” students can obtain first class honours degrees in world class universities despite the adversities and obstacles in Bolehland’s educational system.
I have said it many times – we need a meritocratic government, and the rest will take care of itself. Who in UMNO knows the meaning of “doing the right thing” ? Only Tengku Razaleigh….
#2 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 8:10 am
If one compares Singapore educational system to Malaysia’s, we are, of course crap, because we bend backwards for the sake of ‘Ketuanan’ and abandon Meritocracy/Equal Opportunities and English in the back burner! But for Azly Rahman to claim that “we have a world-class education system in our neighbour” (Singapore)? Come on, it depends on what you define is “world-class education system”. Singapore Education Minister would make that claim if international ratings are the benchmark, for examples “Singapore’s ranked 1st in quality education system in the world” – Global Competitiveness Report 2007–2008; Singapore ranked one of the world’s best-performing school systems” – McKinsey Report, published September 2007; “Singapore students ranked among the top in Mathematics and Science” – Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) 2007; “Singapore ranked 4th among 45 education systems” – Progress in International Reading Literacy Study (PIRLS) 2006. The fact that some US schools are using Singapore Maths is also testimony of that. The main advantage of Singapore educational system based on meritocracy and rat race is that it makes a student competitive. He is “kiasu” and does not want to lose out. He is forced to study hard and do well in examinations and one of the good thing about this rigorous regime is that it trains the mind to be “disciplined”. By that I mean the mind that can analyze and synthesize facts to arrive a reasonable conclusion. It helps when the main medium of instruction is international language, English. One cannot do well in exams unless one is very articulate in the language, written and spoken which of course places Singaporeans in good stead in convincing and impressing – when that language is used – at all levels, whether in academic or professional contexts, in board rooms and commerce etc. Yet there significant drawbacks in the Singapore system if you look at education in broader sense, one of which is that it does not encourage creativity and imagination. Albert Einstein knows better when he stressed how important imagination is: “Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world”! But leaving aside imagination, even if one is talking about acquisition of knowledge – what knowledge are we talking about here?
#3 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 8:18 am
(Continuing) Not intending to deride S’pore system it is necessaruy to point out that there are two aspects of knowledge, which the Singapore system fails to encourage (in saying this I am not saying that other systems elsewhere really succeeds when they are examination orientated). The first is “integrated multi-disciplinary knowledge”. Every subject that one specializes in and knows more than others requires knowledge of other connected disciplines for an integrated and fuller understanding of the “big” and “small” pictures, which only means that one must have time to delve in other fields than one’s own specialized filed to receive a broad based education. One does not have time for this in S’pore when one is driven to excel and score marks in one’s own specialized field. The second is “practical street wise knowledge”. Those of us who have gone through the mill in scoring straight As throughout our educational career know that academic excellence alone does not translate to success in career or even life – and certainly does not necessarily help towards all round intellectual or emotional maturity!
I would imagine that middle class Malaysian Chinese families here are placed in greater vantage point to give their children good education in following senses: –
· Our children are afforded opportunities to be trilingual – English, Mandarin and Bahasa. They can work whether in Speaking countries or emerging China and the wider Chinese diaspora of Taiwan, S’pore etc
· Being marginalized as not the favoured group with little access to public universities, which they don’t care to enroll in anyway, they are instilled as minorities the need to survive in a difficult environment ie do sufficiently well to get into better foreign universities, and if there’s no sufficient money, to go for twinning or scour for opportunities of scholarship and to supplement fees/living expenses by working during term breaks.
· Not trusting our local educational system parents, provided that they are educated, can and will take a more active role in supplementing education of their children at home. By this I mean teaching them about the ways and trickeries of the world, values, giving them a good grounding in mathematics (for you can’t make money if you are not numerate and good and counting), teaching them how to reason, analyze, very important in all subjects structured on languages or linguistics. And the fact that they are trilingual is a great asset.
Singaporean educational system may be able to produce generally high averages but we try to make our children climb the fewer higher peaks. This world class system in the South may produce more competent technocrats who always ask what’s the law is, follow it and yet get conned when doing a deals overseas, we will however produce children who (not to say break the law) will always enquire how the law may be got around without breaking it, never get conned and always triumph in the end, using what they learn in school/universities to better grasp and utilise the knowledge they will get froim the univeristy of Life!
#4 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 8:29 am
When I say generally high averages in Singapore but fewer higher peaks as in Malaysia, I was thinking of how many Lim Kit Siangs and Raja Petras can Singapore’s conformist/competitive educational system produce. Ha ha ha.
#5 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 8:49 am
There can be no high achievement unless one embraces the standard of excellence. And excellence flowers better when it stems from innate interest than competition. It does not matter what that achievement or excellence is – whether mathematics, quantum physics or music, or sports or even carpentry. I ask whether an education system obcessed with competition and scoring As in academic subjects can provide the environment to find and develop a person’s full potential of what could interest and bring out the best/excellence in him. One of the six main reasons Singaporeans migrate is the stressful educational system they don’t want for their children to undergo!
#6 by limkamput on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 8:52 am
Now, sage, you are really really talking kok now. Are you saying because of our circumstances we are savvier? How can you use a few savvy Malaysians to conclude that we are better? Thousand of Malaysians not only get conned abroad, but also within our own country.
Singapore’s achievement is nothing? Are you saying Malaysian businessmen on average have performed better than Singapore? On what basis are you saying that – we have a more street wise, vigorous and robust and education system than Singapore? Let me tell you this: If Malaysians were to run Singapore, Singapore today would be a city slum and probably lost its independence years ago. If Singaporeans were to run Malaysia, Malaysia today is probably like Switzerland. Please remember, our achievement must always be assessed against our resources and potential. What does Singapore have compared to Malaysia? A real nincompoop.
#7 by limkamput on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 8:58 am
What is innate interest to you? Is it not our innate interest to do better than others, to get ahead and be more successful? So how does innate interest different from competition? I am talking generally, but if you choose to talk about exception, then surely nothing meaningful could be discussed.
#8 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 9:04 am
Lim Kam Put, did I say “Singapore’s achievement is nothing?” or that our educational system is better?
Your manner of response and interpretation of my comments is perhaps the best and most cogent argument that you have put forward thus far why our educational system has failed!
#9 by limkamput on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 9:07 am
Jeffrey, please don’t talk kok, ok. That is typical of your response.
#10 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 9:07 am
Oh I forget your question, “So how does innate interest different from competition?” is another fuether cogent argument that you have put forward on why our educational system has failed!
#11 by limkamput on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 9:13 am
Jeffrey, you can go ahead to continue insulting my education. But I just want to let you know that my gmat score is probably higher than you although I do not know who you are and where you come from.
You can always deny my interpretation of what you said. My purpose is for others to read, not just for you to respond, got it?
#12 by limkamput on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 9:14 am
…than yours
#13 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 9:28 am
///But I just want to let you know that my gmat score is probably higher than you although I do not know who you are and where you come from/// – yet another example!
Of course much of what is said is to you “really talking kok”, a point of view you mostly get when you always shuff your head far up your own ass when commenting. Why even when commenting on Lim Keng Yaik’s interview in thread “I give up la talking to this government”, you cannot resist abstaining from repeatedly saying “it is a$$ politicians forever making the people divided, “Your A$$ is talking again” or “Enough, I think I better stop reading you’re a$$ views.” I know there’s a sensational sodomy trial going on but can you be less obsessed? Ha ha ha!
#14 by limkamput on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 9:33 am
It is my frustration, Jeffrey, it is just frustration, nothing more to it. And if you don’t get it, then it is the fault of the education you received. Too bad. LKY is as ass – he has no moral decency to talk on anything. Same like Mamathir and Samy – all asses.
#15 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 9:47 am
“It is my frustration, Jeffrey, it is just frustration, nothing more to it.” LimKamPut
We all know your problem. Maybe too long in UMNO Govt service? Deal with it : it is making your thoughts like a cluster of small lead balls, emotions like powder charge and a mouth like a cannon muzzle, shooting at wrong targets or targets way beyond your sight. I wasn’t sarcastic when I said sometime back a clinical psychologist could help.
#16 by trublumsian on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 9:50 am
Jeffrey, is the weekend slowing you down or are you high on chinese new year grub? i can bet you the majority of our minorities in bolehland will prefer singapore’s education any day. it’s like picking on a bmw not fitting in a tight spot like a perodua!
with singapore’s, at a minimum, opportunites are equal. look at the minorities in malaysia. not everyone of them will achieve middle class thanks to the powers that be and their ridiculously one sided policies. the lucky few have the brains or gutsy resources to pull through, others have established family support so they get headstarts. yet how many languish in the plantations and new villages? small towns and slums? they’d be content just to get by secondary school and land a deadend job. the rasict government could care less.
back to your put down of singapore’s education system. i grant you you’re always going to need the einsteins and steve jobs who play the roles of light bulbs, but when the brainstormers get their kudos, who’s gonna prove the concept and design the design? who’s gonna put on the lab coats, and ultimately churn things out of manufacturing? behind every google and facebook founders who are the minions who write the code so you can google the nearest massage parlor or leave wall comments? you got it, the folks who hit the books, did the homework, and ace the tests :)
#17 by trublumsian on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 9:58 am
and jeffrey whether you like it or not, the only way still for the oxcams and ivy leagues to have anything close to predicting an 18 yr old kid’s probability of doing well in school is their grades and scores. street smarts as you eloquently put are best left for the taokays who can’t spell but put in a hard day’s work.
#18 by Dipoh Bous on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 10:03 am
…..yawning…..
…………..yawn…………yawn…………
…………..yawn…………yawn…………yawn………
Oh, I can’t help it! The two of you just make me want to read anything but this column…
Hv a great w/end guys.
#19 by Godfather on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 10:07 am
Now I’m totally confused. Limkamput says LKY is an ass – and of course we know he says that all the BN leaders here are asses. So what do we do now, learned one ?
Singapore’s education system is purely meritocratic and it pushes you to the limit that you don’t know that you have. Of course you either flourish or you just quit and go to Australia for some peace of mind. The basic fact is that Singapore has a per capita income 4 times that of Bolehland, with no natural resources, hostile neighbours, etc. It has over US$250 billion in reserves which it puts to good use all over the world through a bunch of fund managers meritocratically chosen. Yes, they do get conned from time to time, but Bolehland people get conned ALL the time – by their own government.
#20 by Winston on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 10:10 am
Anybody can say what they like.
But a system that beggers your neighbours, like that in our country, will never do well anywhere.
It is quite surprising that even purportedly erudite people who post in this blog fail to understand this point although it’s very down to earth!
The root cause of our problems, for decades, is the couldn’t care less and self-serving UMNO/BN government!
If you want a better future, just dump the UMNO/BN government!
#21 by boh-liao on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 10:21 am
Is there a utopian system in any part of this planet? Don’t think so
We do hv some systems which r good in some aspects but not perfect allround
We may criticise d education system down south, but we must admit dat it is not bad
D gomen there is still tweaking d education system 2 cater 4 all kinds of learners n 2 stimulate creativity, entrepreneurism
At least, efforts r put into good use towards positive results
N many who r involved in these efforts r actually Malaysians working there
On d other hand, what is happening here?
Day in day out we waste our efforts on negative things, empty slogans, racist remarks
One step forward followed by 2 or 3 steps backward
Right now we r mesmerised by d illogical no-penetration-yet-sodomised pnenomenon
This may turn out 2 b a new entry in medical textbooks later – creativity, ya!
Our judges too r creative trailblazers setting new legal milestones one after d other, 2 d envy of red-eyed judges in d little red dot
1M’sia truly boleh!!
#22 by Lee Wang Yen on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 10:24 am
Some of the responses to Jeffrey show that the commentators have misunderstood or/and misrepresented his point. Jeffrey is misrepresented as saying that the education system of Malaysia is better than that of Singapore’s. But he has neither said nor implied that. Rather, he has been clear at the outset that the Malaysian system is crap compared to that of Singapore. I guess some inferred from his claim that some Chinese Malaysians are better equipped to succeed than Singaporeans to the claim that the Malaysian system is better. Yet this is a bad inference, for the discourse context of Jeffrey’s comments indicates that he is actually saying that our adverse circumstances make us better equipped than Singaporeans DESPITE our worse education system.
Also, the claim that Jeffrey puts down the Singapore system just because he has pointed out some of its disadvantages sounds unreasonable and unfair. Please do not ignore the good things Jeffrey says about that system. His is a much well-balanced view than many of his critics. As an academic at NUS, I think Jeffrey is right about the problems of the Singapore system, despite all its other virtues.
#23 by trublumsian on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 10:26 am
singapore’s system is not perfect. but given the constraints (some self-inflicted), what they came up with serves them the best. malaysia today is not zimbabwe (not yet), what it has going for it for the most part must be credited to the minorities. can you imagine if the chinese and indians leave en-masse? hello malaysiababwe!
non-malays are resilient. no hand-outs given, so you’re pushed to make your own ends meet, akin to what doesn’t kill you make you stronger. they work hard, get a non-comical education abroad, so they balance the comical ones locally. if singapore is any indication, umno is not just handicapping the malays w/ their nep crap, it is also keeping a shackle on the chinese so they don’t excel toooo much.
#24 by trublumsian on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 10:37 am
uhh…lee wang yen, only the speaker can misrepresent a point, the listener misunderstands :)
but your point is well-taken. although, sometimes jeffrey can misrepresent by maximizing the number of characters allowed.
#25 by Lee Wang Yen on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 10:47 am
A listener can misrepresent the speaker’s point when he comments on it.
According to Oxford Advanced Learner’s Dictionary, ‘misrepresent’ means
‘to give information about sb/sth that is not true or complete so that other people have the wrong impression about them/it: [vn] He felt that the book misrepresented his opinions.’
#26 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 10:47 am
Trublumsian,
I have already said in very first sentence of my first posting #2 that “if one compares Singapore educational system to Malaysia’s, we are, of course crap”. Your comment ” I bet you the majority of our minorities in bolehland will prefer Singapore’s education any day” is true. I would say for a very good reason too as Singapore system produces as I said “generally high averages”.
I point out the draw backs of the Singapore system not so much to argue that if the choice is between either Malaysian or S’pore education system or facilities, that the Malaysian one is the better. That is definitely not the case. But Singapore system is definitely far from the ideal of getting the best in education tantamounting in Azly’s words to “world-class education system in our neighbour” in broader sense of the word “education” as I elaborated (though it may still be true if you go by international ratings based on certain criteria).
Your statement “but when the brainstormers get their kudos, who’s gonna prove the concept and design the design? who’s gonna put on the lab coats, and ultimately churn things out of manufacturing?” is correct. I have no problem with the argument that there is competence, esp technical competence. I know because I have worked before with and have highly educated Singapore’s scholars/ technocrats/financiers before and many are my friends. (I am not even referring to buccaneer entrepreneurs which both sides have). It is also dangerous to even say that they can’t think out of the box for some obviously do. But I don’t sense that generally many evince that readiness to do so.
Be that as it may, my comments are not intended to compare on the average Malaysian versus Singapore educational systems on which is better. I am looking at how to give one’s children a good education in preparation of the world not necessarily confined to the choice – either entirely the Singapore or the Malaysian educational system.
I want to tell Malaysian parents especially Middle class non-Malay not to despair. The formative years are level 2 or 3 in secondary school upwards. Give them trilingual exposure, education at home on what counts to supplement, twinning (if one can’t afford for proper education elsewhere) and they may yet turn out better. In praising Singapore’s system we forget that for all its advantages it too has significant drawbacks including very stressful, the exam driven competitiveness not exactly the best in town in developing all round personality based on broad based education as I define it. (I am generalizing of course). We can despite our limiting circumstances leverage on other advantages that we have to give them a better education than to be just competent technocrats. I do wish to hear others’ comments who have similar experience in dealing with the Singaporeans (educated in the Singapore system) in the course of work or business.
#27 by Godfather on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 10:53 am
Jeffrey:
Cut out the “yes, but…” and “no, but….” crap. Just tell us this: given the choice between the education systems in both countries, warts and all, which system would you tell the middle-class non-Malays to choose ? Singapore has now advertised in Malaysian papers offering scholarships. Would you recommend that students here apply for it ? Remember, no ifs and buts or “on one hand it is this, but on the other hand….”.
#28 by Lee Wang Yen on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 10:56 am
‘your point is well-taken’
Please do not misrepresent my point – I have never said nor implied that Jeffrey misrepresents himself. I clearly mean that some of his critics here have misunderstood and/or misrepresented him.
#29 by Godfather on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 10:56 am
Our system here doesn’t allow good students to even become competent technocrats. Any sign of competence and you are marginalised. And I put it to the lawyer that competent technocrats is exactly what is needed to right this sinking ship.
#30 by trublumsian on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 10:58 am
oh boy, lee wang yen, you’re still on oxford? i’ve long have wiki, dict.com, and google for dinner.
in all seriousness, i’m not dissing jeffrey’s take. after i got off my own high of watching tiger wood’s semi-confession, i concur on the generality of his posting.
have a good weekend.
#31 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 10:59 am
Lee Wang Yen, thanks for clarifying the issues in your customary succinct manner.
#32 by limkamput on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 11:01 am
Yet this is a bad inference, for the discourse context of Jeffrey’s comments indicates that he is actually saying that our adverse circumstances make us better equipped than Singaporeans DESPITE our worse education system. //LWY
This is stupid inference too. Read in totally what Jeffery said, and I am sure many would come to the conclusion that Singapore education is not that great; Malaysia despite or because of our adversity is able to produce winners.
Hello, some people in Malaysia (presumably non Malays) are faced with adverse circumstances and therefore are honed to excel. What about Singapore? Can we say the whole country there is faced with adverse circumstances?
#33 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 11:01 am
And I put it …”that competent technocrats is exactly what is needed to right this sinking ship.” – Godfather.
I agree. I however am not addressing how to revive a sinking ship or submarine but how to give our children the best of education within this sinking ship!
#34 by Sino Kadazan on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 11:18 am
Singapore’s education system is not 100% perfect but in comparison to Malaysia’s, they are superior.
I’m a Malaysian. I’ve lived in SG for 14 years but now relocated back.
Their government is not 100% perfect too. Not all their citizens are happy with the government as obviously manifested in these exchange. I was amused how Singaporeans take for granted what the government had done for them but I can appreciate how they can feel that way.
The grass is always greener on the other side.In this case, we Malaysians see the grass over in Singapore very green. Very very green. Well PAP is no angel and so is UMNO/BN but if we have to choose between the 2 evils, I think we choose PAP anytime. With no natural resources to work with, they managed to bring a tiny island which our minister Nazri said do not qualify to be a country, into a first world country. And what about our UMNO/BN, we are rich in resources but we are …..
If you check Forbes listing of top 40 richest in MY and SG, collectively their networth are $36billion and $39billion respectively. But compare the population.MY has more than 20mil and SG has about 4mil. And in SG, being a millionaire is no big deal bcos there are plenty of them. If you say someone is a millionaire, no one bat an eye because it is common.
So like it or not, PAP’s track record is far impressive than our UMNO/BN. Their human rights record probably sucks but so does UMNO/BN. But at least SG people can walk in the streets at night without being mugged.
Don’t get me or us wrong, we’re not about to invite Lee Kuan Yew to come and rule our country. We’re Malaysians and we’re proud of it. What Azly is trying to say is, hey look, it’s probably worth a try. What’s wrong with learning from other people? What’s wrong with being critical about ourselves and examining ourselves, if it’s for our betterment?
Let us not become a blind chauvinist.
#35 by limkamput on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 11:22 am
What is the relevance of Jeffrey posting here? We have to be clear whether we are talking generally or about exceptions. Even Mongolia or Bolivia education system would also be able to produce some exceptional individuals. But is that due to the education system or individuals concerned. For whatever reasons, I think Jeffrey was unnecessary harsh on Singapore which has no relevance to the issue at hand.
#36 by johnnypok on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 12:12 pm
Singapore = “Kiasu”
Malaysians are suffering from a severe form of “INFERIORITY COMPLEX” = UNCIVILISED!
#37 by dagen on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 12:33 pm
1981, Junior College Yr.1. Lessons were then already conducted through lectures and tutorials – just like in uni. Good facilities. Well trained teachers (a large number are malaysians, mainly johoreans) – even the PE teacher was trained in physical education. He doesnt teach anything else except PE and sports.
System for system, of course singapore is way superior. Our system is just too bogged down with umno’s political considerations.
What about the products then? A bad system we know can and in fact do produce brilliant students too. Does that make the bad system somehow acceptable? Look. How come our supposedly inferior system is able to produce top O-level scorers in singapore year after year?
Its the student, not the system dude! A good student will excel whether the school she is in has a library or not. And dont forget. We are endowed with a much larger pool (population size: 23m) from which potental talents could be fished. Bill Gates said this of china. Even if you are a rare one in a million talent, in china you could find some 1,300 of your equivalent!
So then the logical observation must be, good system or bad system, it simply does not matter. Or does it really matter?
Pull a young joe ahmad out of a kampung in the middle of kelantan. Give him a pair of running shoes and send to the 100m world meet. Can he do it? What does he need? Its obvious, isnt it? 12s, 11s or maybe under 10s -what is he really capable of? Do we know? Does joe ahmad know? Is he a potential world record breaker?
The system serves to provide us with a probable answer to this difficult question. At least, it will help us to realise the potentials in everyone. And more. If joe ahmad can do the 100m dash in 12s, perhaps the system can help him to see 11s or even less, i.e. push his real potential a little further.
Singapore has a small pool of talents. That is why singapore has to make the best our of everyone there. With what they are doing they are already enjoying developed world status. Our population is a good 8 times larger. Imagine what we are capable of achieving if only the umno could immediately cease the umno-centric system and allow everyone in the country to progress towards their true potentials.
Would umno do it? Nah. No way. Lips service and slogans, of course they will continue to make. But real changes, not a chance.
Umno is way way past its time. It is now an unwelcome party still clinging on to power. Change it. Do it for the sake of joe ahmad.
#38 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 1:03 pm
/// We have to be clear whether we are talking generally or about exceptions/// . That’s not the main focus. Who can measure that exactly general or exceptions to argue? Not comparing Malaysia’s, we’re talking of the education system of Singapore which, whilst good in many aspects already highlighted, whether it is “world-class education system” as Azly said. That depends on what one means “world class”. If one says producing scholars and competent technocrats is “world class” then there is really no common ground to argue/debate.
I mentioned the standard and pursuit of excellence as being prerequisite of “high achievement” and that excellence flowers better when it stems from (1) inspiration of innate interest than (2) the gruesome labour of competitive examinations. I stand by this. The first condition (1) is very thing that fosters creativity, imagination, curiosity, a sense of adventure, and persistent love of learning and acquiring knowledge & nibbling/working at a problem to solve it due to love/interest than (2) just to beat the next fellow and get the accolades! (1) is real talent meritocracy whilst (2) is competitive exam meritocracy. The society that fosters (1) will produce in longer run (way after graduation) more world champions, beaters top-ranked scientists, entrepreneurs, professionals, inventors, business executives or academics. Of course to micromanage Singapore a team of able technocrats will do. To get world-beaters, it just opens its door to attract foreign talents/brains. How many talents/brains from malaysia have they got already? But people homegrown from their educational system?
If one talks of life’s skills don’t we agree that Middle class non malay kids have better opportunities to be trilingual here than in Singapore?
Another part of world-class education is to produce intellectuals (not so much of scholars per se). That this is necessary is obvious: intellectuals have an important part to play to influence the society they are in to a higher organization of thought and organization of affairs. Intellectuals have a broad based understanding of issues, and a value system daring to speak the truth, in speech or writing, where ever it leads to (pleasant or unpleasant consequences) and a daring to speak truth to power. For that the education system must encourage a mind that questions and challenges conventional wisdom, even if it means challenging authority….I ask whether you think the Singapore educational system encourages this or conformity! Since primary they are taught to respect authority and the wisdom of authoritarian figures, whether teacher, lecturer, employer, PAP cabinet minister or Prime Minister. When student speak up on something controversial,
will he be applauded and encouraged in Singapore or viewed by his peers as pushy and weird??
I regard many people here in Malaysia as public intellectuals, for example YB Kit, Raja Petra, Malaysiakini’s Steven Gan and many others in blogger sphere and the NGOs. They flourish (notwithstanding our limitations in educational sphere) in part due to our adverse oppressive conditions where we have to fight and conscious of fighting tooth and nail for our basic right. So we can break out of our conformist shell that our own education system shackles. In S’pore what is there to break from the conformist shell when the choice is stark : either you can talked down by the intellectually superior PAP minister, go to jail, get sued for defamation as weighed against the other argument – what have citizenry got to complain anyway : “we’re first in this and first in that, high GDP per capita (not necessarily purchasing power parity), efficient public transportation and housing, corrupt free civil service etc.” Nothing much for the citizenry to think ain’t it (except as technocrat to get work efficiently done)? Where’s S’pore’s LKS, RPKs with the guts, fire in the belly and so forth? I agree they still have Chiam See Tong (once upon a time Tan Wah Piow who never came back) but by and large?
This is dilemma of Singapore education. (That does not mean they don’t know and won’t slowly change for the better).
#39 by cemerlang on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 1:44 pm
Can Sing Math get you to the nearest object in the sky and that is the moon ? What about education in moral, ethics, etiquettes; things like respect, being friendly, being polite, being civil, being kind, being sensitive, being considerate ? Is education about books alone or is education about the person ? RTM’s report on Montessori education makes sense. It is about the whole person, rather than books alone. Malaysia is too crazy about marks and forget about what is happening to the person itself. Imagine having a leader with the best academic qualifications but having problems with the attitudes, with the personality, with the character, bla bla bla …
#40 by limkamput on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 1:53 pm
You are just playing with your language ability. Please share with us an education system that you know of that “fosters creativity, imagination, curiosity, a sense of adventure, and persistent love of learning and acquiring knowledge & nibbling/working at a problem to solve it due to love/interest.” Now I know Singapore is not one of them, but please name me one or two examples you know.
Another point you mentioned producing intellectuals (not so much of scholars per se). Now, are intellectuals solely the output of an education system or are there factors beyond education? Your cause and effect relationship is getting a little farfetched and dubious.
“we’re first in this and first in that, high GDP per capita (not necessarily purchasing power parity), efficient public transportation and housing, corrupt free civil service etc.” Jeffrey said when referring to Singapore
So you think all these “good things” come naturally/effortlessly without someone thinking and working relentlessly. Why didn’t other countries also having those good things since Singapore is not the one producing intellectuals and real talent.
“Where’s S’pore’s LKS, RPKs with the guts, fire in the belly and so forth?” Jeffrey
Do they need LKS RPK in Singapore? It is that simple, necessity is the money of invention – I am sure if there is a need, hundreds of LKS and RPK will emerge in Singapore.
One fatal assumption – how can you attribute whatever you have observed in Singapore to the dilemma of Singapore education. Simply too simplistic and sweeping, sorry.
#41 by limkamput on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 1:57 pm
What is the problem with my posting above, moderator? Do you know your job?
#42 by limkamput on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 2:02 pm
Jeffrey, Please share with us an education system that you know of that “fosters creativity, imagination, curiosity, a sense of adventure, and persistent love of learning and acquiring knowledge & nibbling/working at a problem to solve it due to love/interest.” Now I know Singapore is not one of them, but please name me one or two examples you know.
#43 by limkamput on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 2:03 pm
Another point you mentioned producing intellectuals (not so much of scholars per se). Now, are intellectuals solely the output of an education system or are there factors beyond education? Your cause and effect relationship is getting a little farfetched and dubious.
#44 by limkamput on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 2:04 pm
“we’re first in this and first in that, high GDP per capita (not necessarily purchasing power parity), efficient public transportation and housing, corrupt free civil service etc.” Jeffrey said when referring to Singapore
So you think all these “good things” come naturally/effortlessly without someone thinking and working relentlessly. Why didn’t other countries also having those good things since Singapore is not the one producing intellectuals and real talent.
#45 by limkamput on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 2:04 pm
“Where’s S’pore’s LKS, RPKs with the guts, fire in the belly and so forth?” Jeffrey
Do they need LKS RPK in Singapore? It is that simple, necessity is the money of invention – I am sure if there is a need, hundreds of LKS and RPK will emerge in Singapore.
#46 by limkamput on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 2:06 pm
“Where’s S’pore’s L-K-S, R-P-Ks with the guts, fire in the belly and so forth?” Jeffrey
Do they need L-K-S R-P-K in Singapore? It is that simple, necessity is the money of invention – I am sure if there is a need, hundreds of L-K-S and R-P-K will emerge in Singapore.
#47 by limkamput on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 2:07 pm
Finally, one fatal assumption you have made – how can you attribute whatever you observe in Singapore to the dilemma of Singapore education. Simply too simplistic and sweeping, sorry.
#48 by limkamput on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 2:17 pm
sorry, necessity is the mother of invention..
#49 by ablastine on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 2:27 pm
Jeffrey I suggest that if you want to tell Malaysian parents something it is better you try not to entangle yourself in lengthy sentences and wordiness. Most of us parents are not English professors and have short attention spell so your good words or intention will not reach its target. For instance after reading your lengthy comments the impression I get is that you think Singapore educational system is not really as great. You seem to think that theirs is a system that caters to unimaginative route learning, pressure cooker competition and narrow base. I wonder whether really you have any experience with the Singapore educational system to be in a position to make such judgements. Obviously some of the best students in our country do not believe that because they are all making a beeline to get into it. Unfortunately they take in only the best and the rest got to stick to our own system for better or worse. In the end I still wonder whether we have a system at all.
#50 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 20 February 2010 - 3:03 pm
I would assume that comparing the US and S’pore education systems, the former fosters (more on comparative basis) creativity, imagination, curiosity, a sense of adventure, and persistent love of learning and acquiring knowledge & nibbling/working at a problem to solve it due to love/interest.