Comments on: Police arrest of 589 people in crackdown of peaceful “Abolish ISA” assembly a “black eye” to Police and BN human rights but which Najib and Hishammuddin seem to regard as a “badge of honour”! http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/08/03/police-arrest-of-589-people-in-crackdown-of-peaceful-%e2%80%9cabolish-isa%e2%80%9d-assembly-a-%e2%80%9cblack-eye%e2%80%9d-to-police-and-bn-human-rights-but-which-najib-and-hishammuddin-seem-to-regard/ for Malaysia Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:28:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jeffrey http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/08/03/police-arrest-of-589-people-in-crackdown-of-peaceful-%e2%80%9cabolish-isa%e2%80%9d-assembly-a-%e2%80%9cblack-eye%e2%80%9d-to-police-and-bn-human-rights-but-which-najib-and-hishammuddin-seem-to-regard/comment-page-1/#comment-188131 Jeffrey Tue, 04 Aug 2009 02:52:16 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=5495#comment-188131 “law must be respected etc”..This is bull shit... by jbozz Yes indeed, laws are sanctioned by the state and when interpreted by judges unfairly in favour of the state, one wonders why respect it. This raises philosophical issues of respect for law, when it begins, when ends.... According to the first philosopher (Socrates) laws must be respected even if administered unjustly (Not many would agree). Socrates engaged youths of his days in arguments and logics. He taught them to question all assumptions of the day. The Powers-That-be felt their vested inrerests threatened. They (Courts/tribunals) charged him for poisoning minds of the Young and ordered to kill himself or renounce what he taught as erroneous. His disciples sought to save him. They told him that the laws were, like you say, bullshit anyway, just renounce and carry on teaching somewhere far away beyond the reach of the law. However Socrates said that even though the laws were unjust, respect for them (until they were changed) must be upheld. Or elsde everyone/froup would make their own determination, according to their inclination, whether to follow the laws or not, and if not, chaos would ensue. Socrates could not bear life without his philosophy, yet he could not bear flouting the law which would set an example to youths to disrespect laws, so he gathered all his disciples for the last lesson and farewell, and calmly and in dignified way drank hemlock (poison) to carry out the sentence of death meted out to him for not retracting his teachings. That he died for the principle of upholding respect for laws even if laws were unjust is well known by students of philosophy 101. You can say he's a brave man standing up to threats and false accusations even at the cost of his own life - or stupid, upholding bullshit laws. It is up to you. “law must be respected etc”..This is bull shit… by jbozz

Yes indeed, laws are sanctioned by the state and when interpreted by judges unfairly in favour of the state, one wonders why respect it.

This raises philosophical issues of respect for law, when it begins, when ends….

According to the first philosopher (Socrates) laws must be respected even if administered unjustly (Not many would agree).

Socrates engaged youths of his days in arguments and logics. He taught them to question all assumptions of the day. The Powers-That-be felt their vested inrerests threatened. They (Courts/tribunals) charged him for poisoning minds of the Young and ordered to kill himself or renounce what he taught as erroneous.

His disciples sought to save him. They told him that the laws were, like you say, bullshit
anyway, just renounce and carry on teaching somewhere far away beyond the reach of the law.

However Socrates said that even though the laws were unjust, respect for them (until they were changed) must be upheld. Or elsde everyone/froup would make their own determination, according to their inclination, whether to follow the laws or not, and if not, chaos would ensue.

Socrates could not bear life without his philosophy, yet he could not bear flouting the law which would set an example to youths to disrespect laws, so he gathered all his disciples for the last lesson and farewell, and calmly and in dignified way drank hemlock (poison) to carry out the sentence of death meted out to him for not retracting his teachings.

That he died for the principle of upholding respect for laws even if laws were unjust is well known by students of philosophy 101.

You can say he’s a brave man standing up to threats and false accusations even at the cost of his own life – or stupid, upholding bullshit laws. It is up to you.

]]> By: jbozz http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/08/03/police-arrest-of-589-people-in-crackdown-of-peaceful-%e2%80%9cabolish-isa%e2%80%9d-assembly-a-%e2%80%9cblack-eye%e2%80%9d-to-police-and-bn-human-rights-but-which-najib-and-hishammuddin-seem-to-regard/comment-page-1/#comment-188124 jbozz Tue, 04 Aug 2009 02:04:08 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=5495#comment-188124 To Jeffrey, "law must be respected etc" This is bull shit do you think Malaysia has proper LAW now? The LAW now is used to protect the RICH? Lingam case, Atlantuya case, TBH case, Kugan case Where is Malaysia LAW? the short clip where a chinese was beaten up by a group of notorious uniform Malay, where is the police to lookup the short clip and take appropriate action? To Jeffrey,

“law must be respected etc”

This is bull shit do you think Malaysia has proper LAW now? The LAW now is used to protect the RICH? Lingam case, Atlantuya case, TBH case, Kugan case Where is Malaysia LAW? the short clip where a chinese was beaten up by a group of notorious uniform Malay, where is the police to lookup the short clip and take appropriate action?

]]> By: HJ Angus http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/08/03/police-arrest-of-589-people-in-crackdown-of-peaceful-%e2%80%9cabolish-isa%e2%80%9d-assembly-a-%e2%80%9cblack-eye%e2%80%9d-to-police-and-bn-human-rights-but-which-najib-and-hishammuddin-seem-to-regard/comment-page-1/#comment-188120 HJ Angus Tue, 04 Aug 2009 01:50:41 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=5495#comment-188120 Now at least they are suggesting public stadia to hold gathering to reduce the public disruption but maybe the public anger is too much to agree to that. Maybe the cops can learn from the HK police how to allow street demos that are peaceful? http://malaysiawatch4.blogspot.com/2009/08/malaysiakini-and-isa-debate.html Now at least they are suggesting public stadia to hold gathering to reduce the public disruption but maybe the public anger is too much to agree to that.
Maybe the cops can learn from the HK police how to allow street demos that are peaceful?
http://malaysiawatch4.blogspot.com/2009/08/malaysiakini-and-isa-debate.html

]]> By: the reds http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/08/03/police-arrest-of-589-people-in-crackdown-of-peaceful-%e2%80%9cabolish-isa%e2%80%9d-assembly-a-%e2%80%9cblack-eye%e2%80%9d-to-police-and-bn-human-rights-but-which-najib-and-hishammuddin-seem-to-regard/comment-page-1/#comment-188112 the reds Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:55:33 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=5495#comment-188112 It is very obvious Najib is not the leader that we want. He appears more to be a follower, instead as he is too short-sighted! It is very obvious Najib is not the leader that we want. He appears more to be a follower, instead as he is too short-sighted!

]]> By: anna brella http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/08/03/police-arrest-of-589-people-in-crackdown-of-peaceful-%e2%80%9cabolish-isa%e2%80%9d-assembly-a-%e2%80%9cblack-eye%e2%80%9d-to-police-and-bn-human-rights-but-which-najib-and-hishammuddin-seem-to-regard/comment-page-1/#comment-188102 anna brella Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:29:29 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=5495#comment-188102 SpeakUp: Going by the good proof provided by blogger hawkeyejack, I think the crowd who came out to support the anti-ISA rally was far higher than the 10k-20k reported in various media. I attach the link to hawkeyejack's blog here. Check the turnout count here: http://hawkeyejack.blogspot.com/2009/08/anti-isa-more-than-100000-turnout.html "Imagine Power To The People" John Lennon. SpeakUp:

Going by the good proof provided by blogger hawkeyejack, I think the crowd who came out to support the anti-ISA rally was far higher than the 10k-20k reported in various media.

I attach the link to hawkeyejack’s blog here.

Check the turnout count here: http://hawkeyejack.blogspot.com/2009/08/anti-isa-more-than-100000-turnout.html

“Imagine Power To The People” John Lennon.

]]> By: a2a http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/08/03/police-arrest-of-589-people-in-crackdown-of-peaceful-%e2%80%9cabolish-isa%e2%80%9d-assembly-a-%e2%80%9cblack-eye%e2%80%9d-to-police-and-bn-human-rights-but-which-najib-and-hishammuddin-seem-to-regard/comment-page-1/#comment-188081 a2a Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:15:28 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=5495#comment-188081 Malaysians trying hard to protest legally but the bunch of corrupted politicians don't even help, and threaten all Malaysians like they own this country above all Malaysians and rulers as well. Malaysians please wake up and change your mind set, THIS LAND MALAYSIA IS NOT BELONG TO THE BUNCH OF CORRUPTED POLITICIANS AND THREATEN MALAYSIANS WITH FEARS. Malaysians trying hard to protest legally but the bunch of corrupted politicians don’t even help, and threaten all Malaysians like they own this country above all Malaysians and rulers as well.

Malaysians please wake up and change your mind set, THIS LAND MALAYSIA IS NOT BELONG TO THE BUNCH OF CORRUPTED POLITICIANS AND THREATEN MALAYSIANS WITH FEARS.

]]> By: a2a http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/08/03/police-arrest-of-589-people-in-crackdown-of-peaceful-%e2%80%9cabolish-isa%e2%80%9d-assembly-a-%e2%80%9cblack-eye%e2%80%9d-to-police-and-bn-human-rights-but-which-najib-and-hishammuddin-seem-to-regard/comment-page-1/#comment-188080 a2a Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:57:26 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=5495#comment-188080 MALAYSIAN must change their mind set. MALAYSIAN must realised that after indepedent this land Malaysia is belong to all MALAYSIAN, over 30 millions Malaysians are the boss. You must believe and demand you are the boss, not the bunch of less than 10 corrupted politicians cheated and tricked you that they are the boss. MALAYSIANS must change their mind set that this land MALAYSIA is belong to all MALAYSIANS, not not the bunch of less than 10 corrupted politicians. Malaysia belong to all over 30 millions MALAYSIANS. We are the BOSS. MALAYSIAN must change their mind set.

MALAYSIAN must realised that after indepedent this land Malaysia is belong to all MALAYSIAN, over 30 millions Malaysians are the boss.

You must believe and demand you are the boss, not the bunch of less than 10 corrupted politicians cheated and tricked you that they are the boss.

MALAYSIANS must change their mind set that this land MALAYSIA is belong to all MALAYSIANS, not not the bunch of less than 10 corrupted politicians.

Malaysia belong to all over 30 millions MALAYSIANS. We are the BOSS.

]]> By: Jeffrey http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/08/03/police-arrest-of-589-people-in-crackdown-of-peaceful-%e2%80%9cabolish-isa%e2%80%9d-assembly-a-%e2%80%9cblack-eye%e2%80%9d-to-police-and-bn-human-rights-but-which-najib-and-hishammuddin-seem-to-regard/comment-page-1/#comment-188033 Jeffrey Mon, 03 Aug 2009 08:39:08 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=5495#comment-188033 The usual argument is the law is the law, no police permit granted means illegal assembly, and if illegal assembly it means those participating will be charged with illegal assembly under the Police Act 1967, and this has to be done because, whatever democratic expression by demonstration, law must be respected etc. They are also blaming the demonstrators for economic loss on Sat not to mention the immense problems to the motorist public when arterial routes to the City were clogged up/jammed owing to police inefficacious checks! That is why this part of what YB Kit said is important/crucial in weighing blame - "The Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Najib Razak is more conciliatory, declaring that the government had nothing against the idea of public gatherings to voice out dissatisfaction, offering even to provide proper venues such as stadiums “where they can gather and voice their unhappiness”. But why didn’t the Prime Minister voice his position and offer the use of stadiums before Saturday?" Put it another way, did the organisers earlier apply for police permit for the Anti ISA gathering/march and if so had the police authorities, when refusing to give such a permit, offered the organisers the alternative use of stadiums before Saturday? What's the answer to these questions? The usual argument is the law is the law, no police permit granted means illegal assembly, and if illegal assembly it means those participating will be charged with illegal assembly under the Police Act 1967, and this has to be done because, whatever democratic expression by demonstration, law must be respected etc. They are also blaming the demonstrators for economic loss on Sat not to mention the immense problems to the motorist public when arterial routes to the City were clogged up/jammed owing to police inefficacious checks!

That is why this part of what YB Kit said is important/crucial in weighing blame – “The Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Najib Razak is more conciliatory, declaring that the government had nothing against the idea of public gatherings to voice out dissatisfaction, offering even to provide proper venues such as stadiums “where they can gather and voice their unhappiness”. But why didn’t the Prime Minister voice his position and offer the use of stadiums before Saturday?”

Put it another way, did the organisers earlier apply for police permit for the Anti ISA gathering/march and if so had the police authorities, when refusing to give such a permit, offered the organisers the alternative use of stadiums before Saturday?

What’s the answer to these questions?

]]> By: Jeffrey http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/08/03/police-arrest-of-589-people-in-crackdown-of-peaceful-%e2%80%9cabolish-isa%e2%80%9d-assembly-a-%e2%80%9cblack-eye%e2%80%9d-to-police-and-bn-human-rights-but-which-najib-and-hishammuddin-seem-to-regard/comment-page-1/#comment-188038 Jeffrey Mon, 03 Aug 2009 08:39:07 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=5495#comment-188038 The usual argument is the law is the law, no police permit granted means illegal assembly, and if illegal assembly it means those participating will be charged with illegal assembly under the Police Act 1967, and this has to be done because, whatever democratic expression by demonstration, law must be respected etc. They are also blaming the demonstrators for economic loss on Sat not to mention the immense problems to the motorist public when arterial routes to the City were clogged up/jammed owing to police inefficacious checks! That is why this part of what YB Kit said is important/crucial in weighing blame - "The Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Najib Razak is more conciliatory, declaring that the government had nothing against the idea of public gatherings to voice out dissatisfaction, offering even to provide proper venues such as stadiums “where they can gather and voice their unhappiness”. But why didn’t the Prime Minister voice his position and offer the use of stadiums before Saturday?" Put it another way, did the organisers earlier apply for police permit for the Anti ISA gathering/march and if so had the police authorities, when refusing to give such a permit, offerred the organisers the alternative use of stadiums before Saturday? What's the answer to these questions? The usual argument is the law is the law, no police permit granted means illegal assembly, and if illegal assembly it means those participating will be charged with illegal assembly under the Police Act 1967, and this has to be done because, whatever democratic expression by demonstration, law must be respected etc. They are also blaming the demonstrators for economic loss on Sat not to mention the immense problems to the motorist public when arterial routes to the City were clogged up/jammed owing to police inefficacious checks!

That is why this part of what YB Kit said is important/crucial in weighing blame – “The Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Najib Razak is more conciliatory, declaring that the government had nothing against the idea of public gatherings to voice out dissatisfaction, offering even to provide proper venues such as stadiums “where they can gather and voice their unhappiness”. But why didn’t the Prime Minister voice his position and offer the use of stadiums before Saturday?”

Put it another way, did the organisers earlier apply for police permit for the Anti ISA gathering/march and if so had the police authorities, when refusing to give such a permit, offerred the organisers the alternative use of stadiums before Saturday?

What’s the answer to these questions?

]]> By: seaturtle http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/08/03/police-arrest-of-589-people-in-crackdown-of-peaceful-%e2%80%9cabolish-isa%e2%80%9d-assembly-a-%e2%80%9cblack-eye%e2%80%9d-to-police-and-bn-human-rights-but-which-najib-and-hishammuddin-seem-to-regard/comment-page-1/#comment-188016 seaturtle Mon, 03 Aug 2009 07:35:53 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=5495#comment-188016 UMMO didahulukan, BN diutamakan. Wallet aku didahulukan, Bank account aku diutamakan. Kakayaan aku didahulukan, Keselesaan aku diutamakan. Kuasa aku didahulukan, Kedudukan aku diutamakan. Rakyat jelata dikemudiankan, Rakyat jelata diketepikan... UMMO didahulukan, BN diutamakan.

Wallet aku didahulukan, Bank account aku diutamakan.

Kakayaan aku didahulukan, Keselesaan aku diutamakan.

Kuasa aku didahulukan, Kedudukan aku diutamakan.

Rakyat jelata dikemudiankan, Rakyat jelata diketepikan…

]]> By: SpeakUp http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/08/03/police-arrest-of-589-people-in-crackdown-of-peaceful-%e2%80%9cabolish-isa%e2%80%9d-assembly-a-%e2%80%9cblack-eye%e2%80%9d-to-police-and-bn-human-rights-but-which-najib-and-hishammuddin-seem-to-regard/comment-page-1/#comment-188015 SpeakUp Mon, 03 Aug 2009 07:21:27 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=5495#comment-188015 LKS ... only 20,000 came out, so as far as the Home Ministry is concerned that is a small fraction. If we say 100,000 - 200,000 come out in each majoy city or town then its a different thing la. 20,000 is sup sup the water for them. If it were like 350,000 in the street let's see what HHO would do ... it would have been a real headache then but in reality ... no one really cares. LKS … only 20,000 came out, so as far as the Home Ministry is concerned that is a small fraction. If we say 100,000 – 200,000 come out in each majoy city or town then its a different thing la. 20,000 is sup sup the water for them. If it were like 350,000 in the street let’s see what HHO would do … it would have been a real headache then but in reality … no one really cares.

]]> By: homeblogger http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/08/03/police-arrest-of-589-people-in-crackdown-of-peaceful-%e2%80%9cabolish-isa%e2%80%9d-assembly-a-%e2%80%9cblack-eye%e2%80%9d-to-police-and-bn-human-rights-but-which-najib-and-hishammuddin-seem-to-regard/comment-page-1/#comment-188013 homeblogger Mon, 03 Aug 2009 07:19:58 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=5495#comment-188013 So listen Najib and all you UMNO... Like many others, I was a die hard BN supporter up until March 08. I didn't vote FOR DAP, PAS, PKR or PR. At that time, it wasn't a vote FOR them, it was a slap to BN to reprimand a child who was misbehaving. I didn't want to believe a single word or the opposition. But you have changed my mind. Your evil ways have shown the immense greed and lust that is in your heart. Your total disregard for the rights of Malaysians and your brutal, violent manners have taught my children what racism is. Today, my heart is full of hatred for all that BN stands for. Come the next GE, my vote IS FOR PR and it will forever be for PR. And I will teach my children to think what is right and wrong and they will surely see this government called BN for what it is - pure, unadulterated evil. You and your UMNO putras can enjoy all your ill-gotten wealth and power for now, for it will not last long. Malaysians will show you their utmost contempt and hatred for you in the next GE. So listen Najib and all you UMNO…

Like many others, I was a die hard BN supporter up until March 08. I didn’t vote FOR DAP, PAS, PKR or PR. At that time, it wasn’t a vote FOR them, it was a slap to BN to reprimand a child who was misbehaving.

I didn’t want to believe a single word or the opposition. But you have changed my mind. Your evil ways have shown the immense greed and lust that is in your heart. Your total disregard for the rights of Malaysians and your brutal, violent manners have taught my children what racism is.

Today, my heart is full of hatred for all that BN stands for. Come the next GE, my vote IS FOR PR and it will forever be for PR. And I will teach my children to think what is right and wrong and they will surely see this government called BN for what it is – pure, unadulterated evil.

You and your UMNO putras can enjoy all your ill-gotten wealth and power for now, for it will not last long. Malaysians will show you their utmost contempt and hatred for you in the next GE.

]]> By: bennylohstocks http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/08/03/police-arrest-of-589-people-in-crackdown-of-peaceful-%e2%80%9cabolish-isa%e2%80%9d-assembly-a-%e2%80%9cblack-eye%e2%80%9d-to-police-and-bn-human-rights-but-which-najib-and-hishammuddin-seem-to-regard/comment-page-1/#comment-188012 bennylohstocks Mon, 03 Aug 2009 07:18:50 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=5495#comment-188012 <a href="http://malaysiancartoons.blogspot.com/2009/08/human-rights.html" rel="nofollow">HUMAN RIGHTS?</a> HUMAN RIGHTS?

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