Was Teoh Beng Hock pulled up by his jackets and trousers/belt and pushed out of 14th floor MACC hqrs?


Before last Wednesday’s Cabinet meeting, the family and the Malaysian public were assured by the four MCA Ministers and the Minister each from Gerakan, MIC and SUPP that they would support in Cabinet the establishment of a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the causes and circumstances of Teoh Beng Hock’s mysterious death at Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC) headquarters in Shah Alam.

In the event, these seven Cabinet Ministers from MCA, Gerakan, MIC and SUPP disappointed the Teoh family and justice-loving Malaysians by agreeing to the most unsatisfactory formula of dividing the inquiry into two parts – an inquest into Teoh’s death and a Royal Commission of Inqury into MACC’s interrogation techniques.

This created an nation-wide uproar which even ordinary MCA, Gerakan, MIC and SUPP ground leaders and members fully participated, for they just cannot understand why their party leaders in the Cabinet could be so insensitive to what basic justice and fair play demand – a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the causes and circumstances of Teoh’s death.

Apart from the Ministers, there was little endorsement for an inquest, as illustrated by the massive support of tens of thousands of people who attended the Teoh Beng Hock memorial meetings in seven states in the week after the previous Cabinet meeting, calling for a comprehensive Royal Commission of Inquiry.

The Malaysian public had expected the Cabinet yesterday to take into account the virtually unanimous views of the ordinary Malaysians for a comprehensive Royal Commission of Inquiry into Teoh’s death, but the whole nation was again disappointed that there was no review of the earlier Cabinet decision.

The four MCA Ministers led by its President and Transport Minister, Datuk Seri Ong Tee Keat, the Gerakan Minister and Gerakan President, Tan Sri Dr. Koh Tsu Koon as well as the MIC and SUPP Ministers who had earlier expressed support for RCI into Teoh’s death should explain why they failed yesterday to ask the Cabinet to broaden the scope of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the causes and circumstances of Teoh’s death.

If the scope of the Royal Commission of Inquiry is widened to cover the causes and circumstances of Teoh’s death, then the inquest which had a preliminary start in Shah Alam Court yesterday, could be stood down to await outcome of the RCI inquiry – as is the practice in other Commonwealth countries with similar legal systems with regard to public inquiries into unusual deaths which attract great public concern and interest.

Nanyang Siang Pau today quoted an unnamed Minister as saying that the Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Najib Razak, while briefing the Cabinet on his visit to the Teoh family on Tuesday night, had expressed the hope that the Teoh family “would not be misled by other people”.

Did Najib make such a statement in the Cabinet? Who is Najib referring to? Why is the Minister afraid to speak on record rather than doing so anonymously? Is it MCA President Ong Tee Keat or Gerakan President Koh Tsu Koon.

Let the Minister come out into the open to identify himself.

There are more and more mysteries surrounding Teoh’s unusual death at MACC headquarters exactly two weeks ago.

At the inquest yesterday, the lead counsel representing the Attorney-general, Tan Hock Chuan furnished the team of lawyers representing the Teoh family, headed by Gobind Singh Deo a bundle of documents including post-mortem, forensics, toxicology and criminology reports, closed-circuit television (CCTV) clips and DNA samples.

Conspicuously missing from the bundle is the 10-page statement given by Teoh Beng Hock to the MACC. When will the lawyer team of Teoh’s family be given this important document?

The mysterious circumstances of Teoh’s death at MACC takes on a new dimension with the emergence of anonymous “blackblogs” making baseless, defamatory and scurrilous attacks on Selangor DAP leaders and supporters, with the latest going completely overboard in accusing Kajang Municipal Councillor Tan Boon Hwa and Lee Wye Wing of being Teoh’s murder just because of their earlier refusal to provide their DNA sample for legitimate reasons nothing to do with Teoh’s death.

However, because of these lies on the “blackblogs”, both Tan and Lee have agreed to give their DNA sample as they have nothing to hide.

The lies, half-truths and doctored documents like the one on the blackblog, http://t4tbh.blogspot.com/, deserves no credence whatsoever.

However, sometimes in lies there could be found some nuggets close to truth.

I refer to the following account on this black blog:

“The DNA of strange people found on Teoh’s belt and the back of his jacket shows that Teoh was pulled up by his jacket and trousers / belt and pushed out the window.

”This means that Tan Boon Hwa and Lee Wye Wing grabbed Teoh by his jacket and trousers/belt and threw him out the window.

”The Police must arrest Tan Boon Hwa and Lee Wye Wing for the murder of Teoh Beng Hock”

Removes the lies about Tan Boon Hwa and Lee Wye Wing, but has the purported account of Teoh’s murder any ring of truth? It appears to be written by someone who might know what actually happened and who caused Teoh’s death.

Was Teoh pulled up by his jackets and trousers/belt and pushed out of the MACC’s 14th floor window? Was Teoh dead or alive when he was pushed out of the window? And who are these people concerned?

Only a Royal Commission of Inquiry and not an inquest can satisfy public confidence that there will be a full and no-holds-barred inquiry into the causes and circumstances of Teoh’s mysterious death at MACC headquarters.

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  1. #1 by Godfather on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 2:55 pm

    Careful, Kit, or you will be charged with sedition for questioning a Malay institution, particularly on the issue of murder.

  2. #2 by k1980 on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 3:02 pm

    Now they are accusing Kajang Municipal Councillor Tan Boon Hwa and Lee Wye Wing of TBH’s murder without offering any proof. However, not even cats can be fooled.

    http://www.emmitsburg.net/humor/daily_additions/2006/sept/15.htm#Cats%20Know%20the%20difference%20

  3. #3 by Prasad on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 3:07 pm

    Why on earth did Tan Boon Hwa and Lee Wye Wing agree to give their DNA based on An anonymous blog, if police is asking their DNA based on An anonymous blog without asking how can these 2 person go into MACC office and kill a witness without anyone seeing them , something is very wrong. Tan and Lee are screwed unless they make a deal to bring down Selangor gov.
    Haven’t any of you learn anything from Anwar’s case. At least ask for the profile print out of the DNA they found on Teoh before giving out your DNA sample.

  4. #4 by i_love_malaysia on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 3:10 pm

    Habis cerita – unknown DNA leading to no way!!! Sounds similar to a murder case where accused was freed because two DNA samples were found in the vaginal of the deceased!!!

  5. #5 by i_love_malaysia on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 3:13 pm

    sorry cerita belum habis – one DNA sample belonged to the accused and the other DNA sample belonged to an unknown man!!! So defence lawyer managed to create a doubt over the second unknown man who could have murdered her, so habis cerita lah tu!!! No more case!!!

  6. #6 by Godfather on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 3:13 pm

    The first thing they did was to ask for DNA samples from the DAP reps, and not DNA samples from the many MACC officers who were the last to see Teoh alive.

    Hey, PDRM, why don’t you go catch a few underworld figures that were supposed to be connected to Selangor DAP, and get them to provide DNA samples ?

    The circus gets more and more ridiculous by the day – and that’s what we get with people who have no integrity nor competence.

  7. #7 by SpeakUp on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 3:15 pm

    “Was Teoh Beng Hock pulled up by his jackets and trousers/belt and pushed out of 14th floor MACC hqrs?”

    No he probably was not. Why? Consider this:

    1. the window opening is not that big as seen in certain blogs;
    2. TBH is an adult of average size;

    If they were to manhandle him out of the window there will be:

    1. bruising in the struggle, no one will stand still to be thrown out;
    2. the window would be damaged in the struggle as its just about wide enough for TBH to be shoved through;
    3. there will be a lot of commotion and it will be heard (TBH supposedly died between 8:30 am – 9:30 am);
    4. there will be DNA all over him, hair, skin under nails etc because he would be struggling.

    Now why the following:

    1. little blood upon impact;
    2. trousers are torn;

    IF he was actually thrown out, then perhaps, perhaps only, maybe he was already dead or had fainted etc earlier on.

    What I wanna know is why make it look like he jumped? The window is so small and they forget to place the phone back on him? This is so stupid that its confusing.

  8. #8 by SpeakUp on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 3:19 pm

    Godfather … who says DNA not taken from MACC? I did not read that in the news. Hello … they will have to take MACC officers’ DNA even if they wanna fix TBH up, they will say DNA not the same, it was tested.

    I Love Malaysia … the issue of unknown DNA only arises when someone is charged. Before that it does not mean NO CASE, it means SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG. DNA found at the wrong places. Show’s potential foul play.

  9. #9 by Prasad on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 3:24 pm

    Tan Boon Hwa and Lee Wye Wing supposedly went into secure MACC office without anyone seeing them found Teoh and threw him out of the windows without any commotion being heard by anyone. Then proceed to walk out of the secure MACC office without anyone seeing them. Wow they must world class assassin and well no CCTV in a secure area helped I guess. How stupid do they think the Malaysian people are but judging by Tan and Lee’s action of giving up their DNA it is a valid question.

  10. #10 by OrangRojak on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 3:28 pm

    No. Or at least, it’s too early to say. The t4tbh thing is just sensationalism based on the reported locations of unspecified DNA reported in the press. I note that the Malaysian Insider refers to ‘Male DNA’. Was ‘Male’ the result of DNA analysis, or was it apparent from the medium? I imagine it’s unidentified because it doesn’t match Teoh’s DNA, nor any of those so far collected. But does the matching system also allow the sex of the DNA to be determined?

    If the sex can be determined from the DNA, can the ancestry of the DNA also be assessed? I’m not trying to convert this into a racial issue: some things are presumably possible from DNA, some things are not.

  11. #11 by dawsheng on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 3:34 pm

    “The DNA of strange people found on Teoh’s belt and the back of his jacket shows that Teoh was pulled up by his jacket and trousers / belt and pushed out the window. – t4tbh

    I agree with LKS, there are some nuggets close to truth here. Either Teoh was already dead or there were more than two accomplices if Teoh was still alive before being pushed out of the window, the writer suggested that Teoh was already dead then “pulled up” by two men and pushed out of the window.

  12. #12 by SpeakUp on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 3:37 pm

    OrangRojak … DNA can tell if you are male/female, Chinese/Indian/Malay etc. Of course ancestry can be kinda traced too. The can tell if you are the greatest grandson of Hang Tuah or Mao Tze Tung.

    I say forget that Black Blog … no steam to read anymore, its boring.

  13. #13 by dawsheng on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 3:44 pm

    ”This means that Tan Boon Hwa and Lee Wye Wing grabbed Teoh by his jacket and trousers/belt and threw him out the window. – t4tbh

    If Teoh was still alive at this point, he could have struggled violently but the crime scene suggests otherwise, Teoh could not have struggled if he was handcuffed, or dead.

  14. #14 by dawsheng on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 5:14 pm

    Posted by admin MALAYSIA TODAY
    Saturday, 25 July 2009 22:57

    By Dannis Ng

    I do believe TBH’s body was placed there and the rest was made to look like he exited the windows, like everyone believes and exactly what “they” want you to believe.

    TBH’s body was too far away from the building, about 20’ from the building. His left leg was at a 90 degree and straight. Only athletes can do that, not someone who was 30 years old and immediately from a fall unless he was face down/up and not on his side.

    1) The blood should have formed a pool. Look at the water mark. They are in a circle surrounding the drainpipe in the middle of the 3’ x 3’ imprint. And look on the left side of the 3rd picture. The pool of water is contained in the 3?x3? imprint. Now look at how the blood flowed. It flowed for about 6? (3?+3?). It’s too long and impossible to flow that far because the blood would have clotted by then.

    2) My observation is that there are 2 patches of blood (or 1 patch in an L shape). One is parallel to the railing and the other is coming out from the mouth/nose. The one parallel doesn’t make sense. It should go towards the middle of the 3?x3? imprint. It would make sense if the blood went to the left of the picture and at the same time moved toward the middle. Just like the rest of the water especially the pipe, is in the middle of the 3’x 3’ imprint. The other blood that is coming out from the mouth/nose is flowing slowly towards the middle and should not have flowed up to the corner of the imprint. It should begin to go left at the middle of the imprint just like the one parallel to the railing. It defies gravity.

    3) Look at the fallen off shoe. It probably came from the direction where I think the body was brought from. 2 persons were carrying the body. The one who carried the legs was leading the one who carried the body. While in a rush, they dropped the shoe on the right and therefore the shoe was closer to the railing.

    4) While carrying the body about the time the shoe dropped, the person who carried the torso somehow lowered/dropped his side. Therefore you have the first blood that was parallel to the railing. The 2nd blood stain flowed from the mouth/nose when the body was placed there. Both blood flows started to flow towards the middle of the imprint and the L shape was formed by combining these 2 patches of blood.

    5) The body posture looked like he had been seated upright for some time. That would explain why his body was at a 90-degree angle and the legs were straight. Because of rigor mortis, the legs were somehow either pointing upward toward the sky or not touching the floor. One person had to lift the body by his coat to turn his body toward the building and therefore his shirt was lifted and shifted towards his left side. The bottom part on the right side of his shirt was also pushed up. That is consistent with where the body was coming from (coming from left of the picture where the shoe dropped off).

    6) Unless his legs were heavier than his body, I would assume the head would go down first if his pants got caught. And if his pants did get caught, how did the body land horizontally even if it was a 9?-12? drop. I would assume he dropped like a rock. You might say someone pushed him out. Then you have to assume the window would not shut/come down with the weight of the body after it got hooked and the latch broke and the body would continue to move away from the building. I do not believe the window could have been wide open and yet he got caught by the latch. It looks like a catch 20/20 here. To push far, you have to open the window wide. And to open the window wide, the pants would not have caught the latch which was 3’ away and above. And remember when the window is open, the latch should be pointing parallel to the building which makes it harder for the pants to get caught.

    7) The torn pants have too big a hole to justify a single latch or contact. The latch was thrown from above to make it look like the pants broke it. I don’t think it’s that easy to tear pants. I would think his pants would have fallen off or it would have come loose a little or his belt would have broken. That was not the case in the picture. The large tear on his pants was due to the moving of the body from the 14th floor to the 5th floor. As I mentioned earlier, the person who carried the torso was either too weak or the body was too heavy. I suggest that TBH was killed much earlier when the body was in a seated position and the legs were along the floor. I suggest that while moving the body, they either dropped the body or scrapped his pants/bottom along the floor/stairs many times. The pounding and friction caused the large tear on his pants.

    8) Below have all been mentioned:
    a) No sound of impact
    b) No one saw the body fall
    c) No splash of blood
    d) Body is on its side
    e) No blood stains on the shirt
    f) Body did not look like it had dropped from 9 storeys high

    Everything was made to look like TBH jumped/fell from the window. I suspect TBH had been dead for quite some time and the body was at a 90 degree angle because he was in an upright seated position (or placed that way) with his feet on the floor and later he was moved to the 5 floor. From there, rigor set in and that is why his legs were at a 90 degree angle to his body. Because the perpetrators had done it in a rush, they had no time to straighten his body (or did not think to do so) and just threw his body there. Hence TBH’s body was on its side. There was no way they could put the body face-up or his legs/bottom would be pointing at the sky.

  15. #16 by OrangRojak on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 5:58 pm

    I think speculating is nonsense. We need facts.

    SpeakUp – the black blog is probably the hottest property in the Malaysian blogosphere right now. If they put ads up, they will be coining it in! I had a search for matching image headers earlier, but my knowledge of the Malaysian political blogging scene doesn’t give me a clue where to start. There’s a lot of matches at a blog related to a previously implicated blog, and the only other matching images appear to be on CSL’s blog. They’re not exactly the same, just similar! If I was you, I’d suggest it was “food for thought”! But because I’m me, it’s just some data.

    Interesting that you insist I “forget the black blog” when you’re posting under an article that is inspired by it. Is it food for thought?

  16. #17 by Jaswant on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 6:01 pm

    A case can be built against the MACC officers who interrogated him but it is purely circumstantial and is unlikely to result in a conviction.

  17. #18 by taiking on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 6:07 pm

    In case LKS or any one of you fellas here did not realise this – the word INQUEST when read slowly actually sounds the same as “Royal Comm of Inquiry” and when read quickly enough, sounds the same as “RCI”. In other words, they are the same thing! My god its so easy to explain the whole thing. Najib should fire his advisers for not telling him this crucial point.

  18. #19 by sean on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 6:10 pm

    It’s a conspiracy all along.And this is a very high level one indeed.
    Imagine few weeks ago..Wee wangsa maju chap talks about triads etc.Well he may or may not be fed with false information without his knowledge and he just spit it out like a swiftlet without knowing head or tails.Then the corruption accusation starts coming out one by one etc.And now the notorious toyol saying the same old tune as Wee.
    Most conspiracy are planned way before this incident (by the powers that be) in the macc building and unfortunately some pakatan mps or members may have been fed with wrong info all along by BN dirty trick.Pakatan should not even try to play dirty with BN because being dirty and filthy is what BN and umno does best no doubt about it.Look if they can fix Anwar up so many years ago and recently , what make you think they can do wonders again this time around in this high profile case.All of a sudden they say that there is a mysterious DNA etc..SIGH!!.
    Unless their plan backfire big time then this mysterious DNA can also be “change” and to implicate some of Bn’s own people probably from the macc etc or toyol’s camp..who knows…(chinese saying ..eat dead cat).Well if someone higher up is produces and the director of a movie…he or she can decide(the movie director) who or whom becomes the hero or the villain.And when the movie gets first class rating so as the popularity of the “movie director” as well.

  19. #20 by Jaswant on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 6:16 pm

    Assuming it is determined that there is foul play in the death, the only link the death had to the MACC officer or officers is the fact that the deceased was in their custody before he died. Purely circumstantial. Not enough to convict.

  20. #21 by Jaswant on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 6:19 pm

    “In case LKS or any one of you fellas here did not realise this – the word INQUEST when read slowly actually sounds the same as “Royal Comm of Inquiry” and when read quickly enough, sounds the same as “RCI”. In other words, they are the same thing! ” taiking

    What have you been smoking??

  21. #22 by OrangRojak on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 6:23 pm

    By god you’re right taiking! I hadn’t noticed. Now that you point it out, ‘RCI’ also sounds like ‘ingest’, which has solved a big problem for me, because I was wondering what to have for my dinner. I tidied up the fridge earlier and found a bottle of Leffe Brune behind some plastic tubs of … something that can no longer be identified. This sort of double-luck cannot be explained by simple coincidence!

  22. #23 by Jaswant on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 6:30 pm

    A request to see the 10-page statement said to have been made by the deceased to MACC was rightly refused. At this point foul play has yet to be established.

    In the event of a criminal investigation it would help throw some light into the identity of those who might have wanted him dead.

  23. #24 by taiking on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 6:59 pm

    How heavy was beng hock? 60kg? Work out the force at the point of impact. That is A-level physics / applied maths stuff. Can our bones withstand that kind of force? Leaping off the first floor balcony (which is a mere 9-10ft off the ground) could be enough to break a few bones in one’s body. And falling 9 floors down would almost certainly cause quite a few more to break. In fact if the head was downwards it would have been smashed! Check his grey matter within his skull. Any sign of concussion?

    I read it somewhere that beng hock’s body was found lying at a spot which is about 20ft away from wall of the building. How far could an olympic long jumper leap? Ans about 9m or 20-21ft. And that is a world record.

    Beng hock was not (I presume) a long jumper (lets not mention a world class jumper). Beng hock did not have the space to execute a proper jump. The aluminum window frame is simply too narrow for him to plant himself firmly before the jump. Beng hock did not have the benefit of extending his body fully when he jumped because the window, even when opened fully, would be an obstruction to his jump-path. Beng hock did not have the benefit of momentum that a long jumper would have from the run immediately before the jump. All these points towards a shorter path than the 20ft distance recorded.

    But what about the projectile effect? If beng hock – taking all the physical constraints described above into consideration – could somehow manage a 5-6ft leap then would the forward momentum from the leap carry him forward by another 14-15 ft before he finally lands 20 ft away from the wall. No. The forward momentum would carry him a couple of feet further. But after that the forward momentum will diminish to zero and from that point on wards beng hock would just drop like a stone – vertically downwards. A 7-9ft distance would have been more consistent with the theory of a suicide leap from the window.

  24. #25 by DAP man on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 7:26 pm

    Any person with little brain can see that they are laying to groundwork to conclude that Teoh was indeed murdered but by persons unknown.
    The DNA sample will never find a match. Just you see.
    Do you think they will sacrifice their own kind? Surely they will protect one another.
    MURDERER is MACC.
    Abetment to MURDER is BN Govt, MCA, Gerakan, PDRM and Media.

  25. #26 by OrangRojak on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 8:05 pm

    That is A-level physics
    Uh no. The best you’re going to manage without access to the body itself is useless hand-waving. People have survived 4 mile free-falls onto hard surfaces. The ‘average impact’ is of no value to you at all in the case of a specific death. It has possibly been a long time since the last recorded survival of a long free-fall onto a hard surface, but during wars, when lots of people are falling long distances onto various surfaces, the long odds produce the occasional surprise.

    With the pathologists’ data in hand, the proper thing for the investigation team to do was to throw or drop a good quality dummy out of the window several times to test how and where it would land from different starting points. It’s not long-jump, as you note. Momentum would have had less effect in that situation than say, turbulence. It’s a tall building, so probably has a considerable micro-climate. Another possibility to explain a great horizontal displacement is a collision with the building soon after starting to fall. If he was conscious, he may have contributed to a ‘glide’. If the building was built by the same man who renovated my house, the window he departed from may be directly over the point twenty feet from the wall where he landed. It’s not just physics – what’s needed is very good quality, exhaustive information about the circumstances of the death.

    It’s almost completely pointless, and possibly counter-productive to speculate at this stage. Once again, we’re completely in the dark, groping for answers. Would it hurt so much for incontrovertible facts to be published? The photographs were a step in the right direction – can the pathologists’ reports be made public?

  26. #27 by Onlooker Politics on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 8:11 pm

    “A case can be built against the MACC officers who interrogated him but it is purely circumstantial and is unlikely to result in a conviction.” (Jaswant)

    “Assuming it is determined that there is foul play in the death, the only link the death had to the MACC officer or officers is the fact that the deceased was in their custody before he died. Purely circumstantial. Not enough to convict.” (Jaswant)

    Jaswant,
    Don’t be overconfident in what you believe here.

    Who say evidences which are purely circumstantial are inadequate to convict an alleged? Please go check some convicted murder cases happened after 1990s in Singapore and you will be able to find at least one murder case in which the alleged was convicted simply based on circumstantial evidences!

  27. #28 by Joshua on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 8:41 pm

    Who are the unknown person/s that can be found in any Government office possibly as psrttimers doing some other functions unusual for the type of work in such an office like MACC?

    Would there be found ‘bodyguards’ or ‘utility staff’ – physical or spiritual or any other purposes?

    Would the CCTV identify such persons going into the building but not on the normal payroll as such persons could be paid by casual wages?

    Remember, Najib promised no stone unturn!!!

    pw: letdown Nager

  28. #29 by SpeakUp on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 9:13 pm

    Orang Rojak … okay okay … I was teaching others to go off topic! Hahahahaaha …

    You all sure he fell like 20′ from the building? If so then even worse, hahahahaaa … the windows are so narrow how to jump 20′ out? But we are all speculating. Still its fun huh?

  29. #30 by Jaswant on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 9:19 pm

    “Who say evidences which are purely circumstantial are inadequate to convict an alleged? Please go check ” Onlooker

    Have you consulted Aik Guan on the matter?? Tell him Jaswant says, “Purely circumstantial evidence without more is insufficient to sustain a conviction, if not impossible”.

  30. #31 by SpeakUp on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 9:47 pm

    Ng Aik Guan? Heheheheheee … that man is a very good lawyer, I was his student for tutorials a long time ago. Circumstantial evidence can be used to secure a conviction. It must be strong enough to form the noose that hangs. Only then …

  31. #32 by tanjong8 on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 9:52 pm

    The black blog had given a very good clue:

    Someone or a few people pulled TBH by his jacket or belt and pushed him out of the window.

    The police must find out who these black bloggers are.

    Have they acted ?

  32. #33 by yhsiew on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 9:58 pm

    for they just cannot understand why their party leaders in the Cabinet could be so insensitive to what basic justice and fair play demand – a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the causes and circumstances of Teoh’s death. – Kit
    ===========================================

    Their party leaders are only interested in protecting their rice-bowls!

    The information posted on the ‘black blog’ is childish and only insane people will read it.

  33. #34 by cemerlang on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 10:04 pm

    Reenact the scene but this time use a parachute or use a doll. This question is not important. This young man should be allowed to live on. Why should he be the scapegoat and be murdered for the evil sins of others ?

  34. #35 by Jaswant on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 10:19 pm

    Yes, SpeakUp.

    In the 80s he used to do white collar crime cases. Don’t know if he has done murder cases.

    It is never easy to convict based on circumstantial evidence, but not impossible, if it can pass the test of proof beyond reasonable doubt which is applied at the end of the trial.

    Even then any circumstantial evidence must be of the type:

    that point in the same direction and are independent circumstances like “strands in a rope, where no one of them may be sufficient in itself, but all together may be strong enough to prove the guilt of the defendant beyond reasonable doubt.

  35. #36 by Jaswant on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 10:25 pm

    If all there is is just Ahmad and Wong being the MACC interrogators who had the deceased in their custody at some point of time that day, then you can kiss the case against MACC goodbye!

  36. #37 by wifeejane on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 10:39 pm

    MCA, MIC, Gerakan & SUPP are all barking dogs for the UMNO. I already mention that su kon and tee keat as well as sami are all man with no balls. Initially they say out their opinion but one hush form the UMNO taiko there are like yap bui kow the tail between the leg running away with their dog head held low. Useless people shame to call your self a chinese or indian or others. How to represent us when such a u don’ t even dare to keep up your stands on the issue. No wonder RPK called you two(OTK & KTK) running dog.

  37. #38 by SpeakUp on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 10:50 pm

    Jaswant … MACC will all say … Dunno … dunno … dunno … that itself will kill the case. Hahahahaha …

    Ng Guan Aik is a good lawyer, most impressive when he was handling tutorials, he was fast and made it look so clear. Great comprehension of the law.

    wifeejane … I think the term RUNNING DOG is wrong. I believe its in Hokkien … that actually means SMELLY DOG. Hahahahahaaa …

  38. #39 by SpeakUp on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 10:59 pm

    Ooops …Ng Aik Guan … typo … hehehehehee

  39. #40 by oldman99 on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 11:04 pm

    well, we all know the UMNO horsemen were just playing the tune to show they support this & that, but eventually, nothing happens. It was all over the MSM before that…then, after that, ‘silence’.

    for all we know the black blog was plan-B since plan-A was badly screwed up. it shows how desperate BN want to take back Selangor after failing Kelantan & Kedah. they were lucky in Perak due to the willingness of the 3 frogs…plus another that hopped back & forth. Btw, what happened to those 2 frogs case that MACC suppose to investigate?

  40. #41 by ENDANGERED HORNBILL on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 11:07 pm

    “In the event, these seven Cabinet Ministers from MCA, Gerakan, MIC and SUPP ….agreeing to the most unsatisfactory formula of dividing the inquiry into two parts – an inquest into Teoh’s death and a Royal Commission of Inqury into MACC’s interrogation techniques.”

    Well, 7 Cabin Ministers just didn’t know the difference between RCI and inquest. They were conned by UMNO Cabin minstrels.

  41. #42 by Onlooker Politics on Thursday, 30 July 2009 - 11:07 pm

    “The police must find out who these black bloggers are.” (tanjong8)

    tanjong8, one black blogger, jebatmustdie, is a frequent contributor to the comment blogs of che det blogsite of Dr. Mahathir. jebatmustdie is indeed a hardcore loyalist who loves Dr. Mahathir very much and he stubbornly fights against Anwar Ibrahim.

    I at one time was suspecting that this guy could be the present Home Minister of Malaysia but I could have guessed wrongly! Anyway, jebatmustdie is no doubt an Umno member! Do you want to trust the words of this black blogger about the cause of Teoh Beng Hock’s death?

  42. #43 by a2a on Friday, 31 July 2009 - 12:28 am

    Only the wrong doing people scare to reveal the whole truth.

  43. #44 by a2a on Friday, 31 July 2009 - 12:28 am

    Only the wrong doing people scare to reveal the whole truth.

  44. #45 by Jeffrey on Friday, 31 July 2009 - 12:56 am

    I dismiss Suicide as 100% out. That leaves 2 other possibilities. One is RPK’s first version – Overzealous MACC officers were speculated to be trying to extract confession when there was nothing to confess; in process of intimidating him by holding him upside down, he struggled, someone lost grip, he fell! (This version gains credence from fact that 3rd degree methods are suspected. Plenty of precedents – A Kugan, then Umno Maran division committee member Halimi Kamaruzzaman who alleged he was abused MACC during interrogation). However this speculation does not necessarily make sense at all points.

    This theory (widely held) assumes Teoh had nothing to cooperate with MACC.

    No one knows that as a fact (whether he had anything to cooperate). We don’t know if there were intent to cooperate it was due to corecion or free will. (We know he had intention to resign, leave politics, get married and move on!)

    In fact Teoh’s staying behind in MACC (seen in Pantry) in wee hrs of morning could suggest interrogation was over, he was (as Jaswant speculated) waiting for some documents or whatever that was part of cooperation to be finalised. As he was not ready just yet to go (until documentation completed), handphone not returned.

    If the assumption that MACC sided with ruling coalition and conducted selective investigations to bring down Opposition (in Selangor) were true, the last thing MACC wanted to do was to see any harm befall Teoh – for simple reason that he would be key witness!

    This also means that the people who had motive to harm Teoh would be the ones who would be implicated if he cooperated with MACC and signed the documents that he awaited signing! Lets just call such people “the Outsider”. This is the second possibility….

    One can’t discount one or two elements within MACC building may or may not be linked to Outsider, which means they either do the job for Outsider and let Outsider in via another door not kept under survellience by CCTV…The Outsider might be the one with the “unknown” DNA. If matter cannot eventually be resolved by inquest its because DNA of Outsider (since lomng gone/out of country) could not be obtained for matching and the DNA on deceased jacket does not match that of any MACC interrogators/officers….

    As Dannis Ng of MalaysiaToday analysed body was placed there (below 14th floor ) to make it look like he exited from the windows in 14th Floor (where he was interrogated) to purposely place the rap/ blame on the MACC as fall guy…..People would believe (because of A Kugan’s custodial death and Halimi Kamaruzzaman’s allegations) ignoring inconsistent (aspects) (1) allegations of was not made by BN/MACC etc but Pakatan Rakyat’s such as: own PKR people (2) if authorities want to nail Opposition they would preserve life of Teoh as witness and not harm him (3) his hanging around MACC office after overnight interrogation only made sense if he waited for finalisation of some documentation was consistent with some form of cooperation with MACC and (4) Govt’s appointment of “independent” experienced criminal lawyer Tan Hock Chuan to lead the Attorney-General’s team in the inquest. Why would the govt take unprecedented step? Maybe it too wants to find out the truth and is keen to clear MACC from being framed to take rap in public eyes!!

    He was probably pulkled up by jackets/trousers/belt flung out afar from another window by a big guy (the Outsider), fell on his buttock (trousers torn) near to below the open window on 14th Floor or taken from another place there, to make it look as if from there. (Forensic may establish window debris below was not from the window ajar on 14th Floor).

    Yes wild speculations “Murder she wrote…..” – we all hope the truth will be found out, justice be done, but don’t be overly surprised if it eventually turned out not the least the way we assumed and expected!

  45. #46 by Jeffrey on Friday, 31 July 2009 - 1:10 am

    ooops – “….. allegations of triad was not made by BN/MACC etc but Pakatan Rakyat’s own PKR people. Would they make allegations without an iota of basis just for fun/power play? Would likewise DAP Johore Chairman Dr. Boo Cheng Hau???

  46. #47 by Jaswant on Friday, 31 July 2009 - 1:35 am

    So far the only objective analysis is the one provided by Jeffrey. The rest are just echoing the thoughts of others, incapable of independent thinking who are in a hurry to see justice done. This is understandable.

    We know MACC is in some ways involved in the murder. That is to put it lightly. How then do you prove their involvment? What is the nature of their involvement? Could some MACC officers have taken it into their own hands to further threaten the deceased with harm? Why would MACC want harm to fall on the deceased when he could well be the key witness for the prosecution in any corruption trial?

    What is the motive in seeing him dead? Find the motive and you find the murderer. There’s no need to prove motive in order to prove murder. But it helps in the investigation. Important clues in the 10-page witness statement he made to MACC could explain why MACC is reluctant to release.

    Why would MACC want harm to fall on somebody who could well turn up to be the only witness? Could an MACC officer be in the payroll of those who are implicated in the investigation?

  47. #48 by Jaswant on Friday, 31 July 2009 - 1:39 am

    Yes, throw the net wide. See what you come up with.

  48. #49 by Jeffrey on Friday, 31 July 2009 - 2:12 am

    /// Important clues in the 10-page witness statement he made to MACC could explain why MACC is reluctant to release/// – Jaswant…

    Correct: unless that is seen, contents there checked against (for eg which and what licences – gaming, recreation etc and issued by who and for who in terms of interest in such licences?) how does one form any conclusion whether there is truth in it, or falsehood, and whether statement made (reasonably) voluntarily or procured by coercion/3rd degree methods ???? (Teoh was resigning after his marriage, no more interested in remaining in politics. In such minsdet would he not tell the truth? Would he cover anyone from the truth? these are interesting questions. If there were as 10-page witness statement (as Jaswant said) with contents undisclosed, lets wait for it and see what it says. It can be an eye opener. :)

  49. #50 by ekompute on Friday, 31 July 2009 - 3:18 am

    Eventually, this wayang kulit show will end up nowhere. When this happens, we should say bye-bye to BN… can’t trust a government that is not trustworthy, can we?

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