Comments on: Pakatan Rakyat’s second “crisis of confidence” http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/ for Malaysia Sun, 12 Feb 2012 09:12:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Joshua Tan Kok Hauw http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183569 Joshua Tan Kok Hauw Mon, 06 Jul 2009 05:42:13 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183569 YB Lim, I view this incident differently. 1)It shows that the status between three component parties of Pakatan Rakyat is equal where three parties of PR need each other. 2)It shows that DAP really fights for the interest of people. If Kedah were to be ruled by BN and the pig abattoir demolished by the BN government dare MCA and Gerakan pull out from the state government? No, definitely no. They will kowtow to the interest of themselves instead of pulling out from the government. Even the best couples in this world do quarrel with each other so it is normal for parties of different ideologues to have difference of opinions, sooner or later the problems within PR will be solved. YB Lim, I view this incident differently.
1)It shows that the status between
three component parties of Pakatan Rakyat
is equal where three parties of PR need each other.

2)It shows that DAP really fights for the interest
of people. If Kedah were to be ruled by BN and
the pig abattoir demolished by the BN government
dare MCA and Gerakan pull out from the state government?
No, definitely no. They will kowtow to the interest of themselves
instead of pulling out from the government.

Even the best couples in this world do quarrel with each other
so it is normal for parties of different ideologues to have difference of opinions, sooner or later the problems within PR will be solved.

]]> By: SpeakUp http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183376 SpeakUp Sun, 05 Jul 2009 07:16:01 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183376 Frank ... its true they tolerated for 20 years without burning the place down and that is commendable. But it cannot be said that the stench can be be perfume. The call to prayer is not from an illegal mosque right? :) I too lived beside a mosque, after a month or so my brain shut off the Azan Zohor, slept like a baby. Frank … its true they tolerated for 20 years without burning the place down and that is commendable. But it cannot be said that the stench can be be perfume. The call to prayer is not from an illegal mosque right? :) I too lived beside a mosque, after a month or so my brain shut off the Azan Zohor, slept like a baby.

]]> By: frankyapp http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183228 frankyapp Sat, 04 Jul 2009 04:47:17 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183228 Hopefully PAS and Umno leaders too have this kind of attidutes.If these guys are responsible politicians,they should have this positive mentality,or else they are hypocrites.Looking through most of you guys comments on the current political activities,it gives me an impression that PR is likely to break up,starting with DAP.And PAS and Umno are likely to be reunited.I think all four leader's talk and action are just testing to see what's the rakyat's re-action,hence not sincere but rhetoric .There's no permanent friend or foe in politics.Politicians normally manipulate the rakyat's weaknesses to gain support and win , are likely to surviveThose who don't will just fate away.I think Umno and PAS are the most hypocritcally ones. PKR is the middle of the road type and DAP is the only sincere one,among the four. Sincere politicians usually find it pretty tough to survive whereas those cunning ones continue to survive from months to years,even up to decades.Look at Umno/Bn ,most of its top politicians are long timers. TDM,NR are two good example.Some say politic is dirty but I say politician is dirty.Iresponsible politician is everywhere but though we have good ones but it's real hard to find him or her.So if any of you guys wanna find some real sincere politicians,go to DAP and PKR and perhaps just only one still remaining in PAS.It's due to all these past and present dirty politicians ,resulting Malaysia ,our country going backward instead of going forward.Change we all need and needed badly but where is the solution ?.Just DAP alone,is not enough.Hence DAP should look for more positive alternatives in its stride for success. It cannot compromise with dirty and cunning politicians. Hopefully PAS and Umno leaders too have this kind of attidutes.If these guys are responsible politicians,they should have this positive mentality,or else they are hypocrites.Looking through most of you guys comments on the current political activities,it gives me an impression that PR is likely to break up,starting with DAP.And PAS and Umno are likely to be reunited.I think all four leader’s talk and action are just testing to see what’s the rakyat’s re-action,hence not sincere but rhetoric .There’s no permanent friend or foe in politics.Politicians normally manipulate the rakyat’s weaknesses to gain support and win , are likely to surviveThose who don’t will just fate away.I think Umno and PAS are the most hypocritcally ones. PKR is the middle of the road type and DAP is the only sincere one,among the four. Sincere politicians usually find it pretty tough to survive whereas those cunning ones continue to survive from months to years,even up to decades.Look at Umno/Bn ,most of its top politicians are long timers. TDM,NR are two good example.Some say politic is dirty but I say politician is dirty.Iresponsible politician is everywhere but though we have good ones but it’s real hard to find him or her.So if any of you guys wanna find some real sincere politicians,go to DAP and PKR and perhaps just only one still remaining in PAS.It’s due to all these past and present dirty politicians ,resulting Malaysia ,our country going backward instead of going forward.Change we all need and needed badly but where is the solution ?.Just DAP alone,is not enough.Hence DAP should look for more positive alternatives in its stride for success. It cannot compromise with dirty and cunning politicians.

]]> By: taiking http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183226 taiking Sat, 04 Jul 2009 03:58:56 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183226 In university, lecturers always ask students for their views on some issues relating to the topic under discussion. Students are expected to give as diverse a perspectice as possible. That is a very fundamental university training - i.e. to stimulate students' minds so that they can think and reason for themselves. Of course, inevitably someone would give some idiotic or even stupid comments. Comments like that would still be better than: "My views are the same as the majority views" or "I reserve my opinion" or "I have no views". Secondly and in any event, stupid and idiotic views may not be wrong or for that matter, useless. Einstein once said something to the effect that an idea which does not appear ridiculous at first is an idea not worth pursuing. Furthermore, only time will tell whether an idea is workable or not, right or wrong. Umno has given to us countless examples of wrong ideas and decisions. Look at the decision to switch from english to malay as the medium of instruction. Look at Hicom. Look at Renong. Look at Perwaja. Look at proton. Look at PKFZ. Look at Mat Rempit problems. Look at the 30% umnoputra quota for listing a company in klse. Look at FIC policies. Look at the deteriorating university ranking. Look at the judiciary crisis. Look at corruption problems. Look at our police force effectiveness and performance. It took time for all of these to show their true skin whether they are right or wrong, good or bad. Opening issues up for discusion will not prevent these only-time-can-tell mistakes. But at least, some of the problems could have been highlighted along the way. And so those who are responsible would be in a position to intervene and respond much earlier before the only-time-can-tell problem matures fully. As we progress (although at a disgustingly slow pace compare to korea, taiwan and hong kong - see umnoputras I am not putting singapore in the equation) more and more malaysians would have a university education. They will be questioning the government of the day and demanding for details, explanations and justifications for the government's policies and decisions. Like it or not we are moving in the direction of openness and transparency and away from secrecy and oppression (which is umno's punya style). So when pas raises an issue in public or when dap makes a protest publicly, they are exercising that modern and transparent mode. And the pertinent question to ask is this: How are the people taking it? Very well indeed. Despite the several disagreements within pakatan since 308 last year (which umno's media gave full coverage), pakatan continues to win by-elections and did so with greater majority margin. Right after 308, Gerakan attempted to be open about their sentiments (saying that umno is a bully within bn). MCA too made some feeble attempts. Look at them now. They are completely mute - bullied into silence of course. DAP will not be bullied. Neither would PAS and Keadilan. Pakatan would stand as a true coalition of equal partners unlike BN. In university, lecturers always ask students for their views on some issues relating to the topic under discussion. Students are expected to give as diverse a perspectice as possible. That is a very fundamental university training – i.e. to stimulate students’ minds so that they can think and reason for themselves. Of course, inevitably someone would give some idiotic or even stupid comments. Comments like that would still be better than: “My views are the same as the majority views” or “I reserve my opinion” or “I have no views”. Secondly and in any event, stupid and idiotic views may not be wrong or for that matter, useless. Einstein once said something to the effect that an idea which does not appear ridiculous at first is an idea not worth pursuing. Furthermore, only time will tell whether an idea is workable or not, right or wrong. Umno has given to us countless examples of wrong ideas and decisions. Look at the decision to switch from english to malay as the medium of instruction. Look at Hicom. Look at Renong. Look at Perwaja. Look at proton. Look at PKFZ. Look at Mat Rempit problems. Look at the 30% umnoputra quota for listing a company in klse. Look at FIC policies. Look at the deteriorating university ranking. Look at the judiciary crisis. Look at corruption problems. Look at our police force effectiveness and performance. It took time for all of these to show their true skin whether they are right or wrong, good or bad. Opening issues up for discusion will not prevent these only-time-can-tell mistakes. But at least, some of the problems could have been highlighted along the way. And so those who are responsible would be in a position to intervene and respond much earlier before the only-time-can-tell problem matures fully.

As we progress (although at a disgustingly slow pace compare to korea, taiwan and hong kong – see umnoputras I am not putting singapore in the equation) more and more malaysians would have a university education. They will be questioning the government of the day and demanding for details, explanations and justifications for the government’s policies and decisions. Like it or not we are moving in the direction of openness and transparency and away from secrecy and oppression (which is umno’s punya style). So when pas raises an issue in public or when dap makes a protest publicly, they are exercising that modern and transparent mode. And the pertinent question to ask is this: How are the people taking it? Very well indeed. Despite the several disagreements within pakatan since 308 last year (which umno’s media gave full coverage), pakatan continues to win by-elections and did so with greater majority margin.

Right after 308, Gerakan attempted to be open about their sentiments (saying that umno is a bully within bn). MCA too made some feeble attempts. Look at them now. They are completely mute – bullied into silence of course. DAP will not be bullied. Neither would PAS and Keadilan. Pakatan would stand as a true coalition of equal partners unlike BN.

]]> By: TomThumb http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183225 TomThumb Sat, 04 Jul 2009 03:57:18 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183225 limkamputt the mug faced putt thinks he is smart limkamputt the mug faced putt thinks he is smart

]]> By: taiking http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183220 taiking Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:54:16 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183220 What we see now will be the order of future politics in malaysia. Umno's style of stiffling dissenting voices amongst themselves is obsolete and absolutely unhealthy. No two persons can be of the same views all the time. Not even identical twins and I suspect even clones too would differ in their opinion about things and issues. Voicing out at least has the advantage of letting others know about your views and sentiments. That way sentiments and emotions will not bottle up and explode at some point in time which is definitely undesirable. Umno will explode one day. That day may come sooner than we think. What we see now will be the order of future politics in malaysia. Umno’s style of stiffling dissenting voices amongst themselves is obsolete and absolutely unhealthy. No two persons can be of the same views all the time. Not even identical twins and I suspect even clones too would differ in their opinion about things and issues. Voicing out at least has the advantage of letting others know about your views and sentiments. That way sentiments and emotions will not bottle up and explode at some point in time which is definitely undesirable. Umno will explode one day. That day may come sooner than we think.

]]> By: frankyapp http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183218 frankyapp Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:40:06 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183218 Hi speakUp,what's 20 years for those muslim like you said have endured the stink from a pig farm.It proves these muslim group is practising the real meaning of Islam and they are pretty good muslim fellowers too.You see guys, bad smell,if you are given the right or positive attitude,could become fragrant.This again proves true by those good muslim people who live nearby the pig farm.Take myself for a good example.You know guys,I was a kampong boy for more than 21 years.I live nearby a muslim malays kampong and in this kampong there's a middle size good looking mosque.You know too,before dawn the "calling for prayer "through the four sided loud speaker,initially,it irritated me and making me unable to continue my good morning sleep but with a good attitude,it took me just a matter of days to adjust to the situation ,turning the irritation to sweet music to my ears .Ever since than,I have no problem at all with the "special muslim morning call for prayer ". Hi speakUp,what’s 20 years for those muslim like you said have endured the stink from a pig farm.It proves these muslim group is practising the real meaning of Islam and they are pretty good muslim fellowers too.You see guys, bad smell,if you are given the right or positive attitude,could become fragrant.This again proves true by those good muslim people who live nearby the pig farm.Take myself for a good example.You know guys,I was a kampong boy for more than 21 years.I live nearby a muslim malays kampong and in this kampong there’s a middle size good looking mosque.You know too,before dawn the “calling for prayer “through the four sided loud speaker,initially,it irritated me and making me unable to continue my good morning sleep but with a good attitude,it took me just a matter of days to adjust to the situation ,turning the irritation to sweet music to my ears .Ever since than,I have no problem at all with the “special muslim morning call for prayer “.

]]> By: monsterball http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183217 monsterball Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:27:30 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183217 09.26....I mean DAP play second fiddle to... no one. 09.26….I mean DAP play second fiddle to… no one.

]]> By: OrangRojak http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183216 OrangRojak Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:24:29 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183216 limkamput Says: <i>sell them the modern, secular...</i> Hey, isn't that Lee Wang Yen and Jeffrey's argument? You mean PD? Was it Pakatan Demokrasi or something? Maybe Pokok Demokrasi now... It's a marvellous idea limkaput - the problem with it is that there just isn't anybody besides LWY, Jeffrey, and now you, to do it. In the current first-past-the-post system, who is going to do something principled when they could join a party that is on the brink of making it into power (some weeks) and ride the existing gravy train into gold town? I think there could yet be time to build a modern political platform, working from principles and clear mission statements up, before the next GE, but it would be an enormous slog from those that started it, and they'd be heaped with derision all the way, from all angles. You can't change what we've already got into that. What we've already got was baked in the same oven BN is. Everything is c,ompromise and cosmetics, ending up with something that's not so different from BN, but with no access to sycophantic mass media to pump it up. Are you going to start PD? I'd vote for you - you appear to have principles, even if you can be a bit of an arse sometimes. Oh, I can't vote. But you know what I mean. limkamput Says: sell them the modern, secular…
Hey, isn’t that Lee Wang Yen and Jeffrey’s argument? You mean PD? Was it Pakatan Demokrasi or something? Maybe Pokok Demokrasi now…

It’s a marvellous idea limkaput – the problem with it is that there just isn’t anybody besides LWY, Jeffrey, and now you, to do it. In the current first-past-the-post system, who is going to do something principled when they could join a party that is on the brink of making it into power (some weeks) and ride the existing gravy train into gold town?

I think there could yet be time to build a modern political platform, working from principles and clear mission statements up, before the next GE, but it would be an enormous slog from those that started it, and they’d be heaped with derision all the way, from all angles. You can’t change what we’ve already got into that. What we’ve already got was baked in the same oven BN is. Everything is c,ompromise and cosmetics, ending up with something that’s not so different from BN, but with no access to sycophantic mass media to pump it up.

Are you going to start PD? I’d vote for you – you appear to have principles, even if you can be a bit of an arse sometimes. Oh, I can’t vote. But you know what I mean.

]]> By: monsterball http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183215 monsterball Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:23:53 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183215 Professor Limkamput puts out all ..to show he understands everything...and then force PR to change it. This is a low class way ...for he knows ...it is next to impossible..right now. He is building a case to insult PR...to win votes for MCA. Then his mind goes wild.. to talk about Iran...to tell everyone...he is the man of the world in politics. Professor Limkamput puts out all ..to show he understands everything…and then force PR to change it.
This is a low class way …for he knows …it is next to impossible..right now.
He is building a case to insult PR…to win votes for MCA.
Then his mind goes wild.. to talk about Iran…to tell everyone…he is the man of the world in politics.

]]> By: limkamput http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183214 limkamput Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:12:11 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183214 Malaysia’s future is based on a government that is secular, modern and multi-cultural. The alternative is degeneration into a typical third world standard. PR is not working because the coalition is essentially based on short term expediency. Everybody knows this country has suffered enough because of race and religion. I think it is time for PR to have a unified and common policy – an inclusive policy based on multi-racial, multi-religious and multi-cultural platform. Those that can’t subscribe to the common policy should leave the coalition. I think it is better this way. Political parties should not be afraid to take the issue directly to the people. Go directly to the people and sell them the modern, secular, multi-religious and multi-cultural nation. Right now, we are only assuming that the people want a “religious” government. Look at Iran today and other so-called Muslim nations elsewhere. Have they not provided with us with enough lessons? Why are we digging ourselves into the very hole that others are trying to get out? Malaysia’s future is based on a government that is secular, modern and multi-cultural. The alternative is degeneration into a typical third world standard.

PR is not working because the coalition is essentially based on short term expediency. Everybody knows this country has suffered enough because of race and religion. I think it is time for PR to have a unified and common policy – an inclusive policy based on multi-racial, multi-religious and multi-cultural platform. Those that can’t subscribe to the common policy should leave the coalition. I think it is better this way. Political parties should not be afraid to take the issue directly to the people. Go directly to the people and sell them the modern, secular, multi-religious and multi-cultural nation. Right now, we are only assuming that the people want a “religious” government. Look at Iran today and other so-called Muslim nations elsewhere. Have they not provided with us with enough lessons? Why are we digging ourselves into the very hole that others are trying to get out?

]]> By: monsterball http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183213 monsterball Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:09:28 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183213 DAP man very smart to keep away from Muslims politics..in Alor Star. Unity in PR is different from UMNO...so clear..so good. PAS guy in Alor Star...can shout and be sarcastic.. as much as he likes. DAP have an established reputation...totally clean....hard working...and play second fiddle to any party. Professor limbo can judge ..but offer no solutions. What type of professor is that? He has admitted and declared he is the biggest slimebag in this blog. How can a slimebag...teach others? Ah..they do. They are thick skinned bas..trd. Only UMNO and MCA guys have such qualities..and Limkamputty is a good student. DAP man very smart to keep away from Muslims politics..in Alor Star.
Unity in PR is different from UMNO…so clear..so good.
PAS guy in Alor Star…can shout and be sarcastic.. as much as he likes.
DAP have an established reputation…totally clean….hard working…and play second fiddle to any party.
Professor limbo can judge ..but offer no solutions.
What type of professor is that?
He has admitted and declared he is the biggest slimebag in this blog.
How can a slimebag…teach others?
Ah..they do. They are thick skinned bas..trd. Only UMNO and MCA guys have such qualities..and Limkamputty is a good student.

]]> By: monsterball http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183212 monsterball Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:57:08 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183212 Professor of limbo twister is under control. Now complaining blog quality....blaming me...and teaching LKS how to manage a blog. Blaming PR....twisting tolerance and diversity..ignoring who actually need to be blamed. The order was given long before and approved. Yes....Alor Star is badly managed...corrupt and limbo said it all. Why blame PR and then...moved to blame everyone? Limbo is fickle minded and behave like a sissy. Professor of limbo twister is under control.
Now complaining blog quality….blaming me…and teaching LKS how to manage a blog.
Blaming PR….twisting tolerance and diversity..ignoring who actually need to be blamed.
The order was given long before and approved.
Yes….Alor Star is badly managed…corrupt and limbo said it all.
Why blame PR and then…moved to blame everyone?
Limbo is fickle minded and behave like a sissy.

]]> By: limkamput http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183211 limkamput Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:40:39 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183211 It is not about pig, it is about what PR stand for. If they stand for tolerance and diversity, then things should not have been done in such a high-handed way. We all want clean and healthy living conditions. If the present site is no longer suitable, find an alternative before it is demolished. This is common sense and good governance. By the way, if it is an abattoir, why must it be filthy, dirty and oozing stench? It is about who we are as a nation. This is a nation of filth and stench. I have been to Alor Star recently. Like all towns and cities in Malaysia, the town is filthy and disorderly. It shows most town councils are not really working, whether it is BN or PR states. We have to face reality; most local authorities are archaic, lazy, corrupted, and inefficient. Even if the abattoir is moved to another location, do you think those staying nearby would be happy if the same filthy standards are practised there? It is not about pig, it is about what PR stand for. If they stand for tolerance and diversity, then things should not have been done in such a high-handed way. We all want clean and healthy living conditions. If the present site is no longer suitable, find an alternative before it is demolished. This is common sense and good governance.

By the way, if it is an abattoir, why must it be filthy, dirty and oozing stench? It is about who we are as a nation. This is a nation of filth and stench. I have been to Alor Star recently. Like all towns and cities in Malaysia, the town is filthy and disorderly. It shows most town councils are not really working, whether it is BN or PR states. We have to face reality; most local authorities are archaic, lazy, corrupted, and inefficient. Even if the abattoir is moved to another location, do you think those staying nearby would be happy if the same filthy standards are practised there?

]]> By: limkamput http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183210 limkamput Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:38:08 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183210 The quality of this blog suffers big time, destroyed by a loose cannon ball and a never shut up (or is it speakup) ass. These are the self seeking gullible fools. The quality of this blog suffers big time, destroyed by a loose cannon ball and a never shut up (or is it speakup) ass. These are the self seeking gullible fools.

]]> By: SpeakUp http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183208 SpeakUp Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:25:49 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183208 Jeff ... I like your last para ... they indeed held themselves out to be transcending everything but now fall short of what they have represented. But we have die hards here who justify it by saying: i. PR is new, only 18 months ii. BN been doing worse for 50 years. Adding on to your 'What is PR's proposition', I say the following: i. PR should bring all the head honchos together and pledge that they are here for the people and they are not supportive of race/religious politics; ii. the new Cabinet Committees such as the Education and Finance should make a clear statement that race/religion shall play no role in decision making but only merits (of course provision is made for the financially challenged and under privileged); You think this can happen? This would be the acid test for PR, for them to assure the Rakyat that PR is cohesive and that the aims as per pre-GE12 is still the same. Jeff … I like your last para … they indeed held themselves out to be transcending everything but now fall short of what they have represented. But we have die hards here who justify it by saying:

i. PR is new, only 18 months
ii. BN been doing worse for 50 years.

Adding on to your ‘What is PR’s proposition’, I say the following:

i. PR should bring all the head honchos together and pledge that they are here for the people and they are not supportive of race/religious politics;
ii. the new Cabinet Committees such as the Education and Finance should make a clear statement that race/religion shall play no role in decision making but only merits (of course provision is made for the financially challenged and under privileged);

You think this can happen? This would be the acid test for PR, for them to assure the Rakyat that PR is cohesive and that the aims as per pre-GE12 is still the same.

]]> By: Jeffrey http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183205 Jeffrey Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:16:45 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183205 True, pig abbatoir caused a stench to nearby residents and was illegal (in sense not licensed to be there). Nobody challenges it should remain there. All that’s been asked was for PAS Kedah state government to approve and give a new site for the abattoir before demolishment. That was not granted. It shows intolerance on Alor Star Municipal Council’s part. PAS’s MB also gave no reprieve. DAP might want to show unity with PAS at coalition level but how is DAP's sole representative in Kedah, Lee Guan Aik going to explain to his constituency that voted him why for 30 years BN administration had not demolished the abbatoir?? Illegality and stench might be the excuse whilst real reason would be perceived to be intolerance of a state administration that views it, from religious angle, haram. Same thing happened in Kampung Buah Pala. In spite of LGE’s state govt’s legal and financial limitations, HINDRAF agitators turn it into a racial issue. YB Kit says “Pakatan Rakyat is facing a second crisis of confidence and efforts must be made to resolve it”. However before efforts could be made to resolve crisis, the nature of the crisis must first be understood. Crisis here means an unstable political condition with Pakatan Rakyat (“PR”), at a turning point of some imminent abrupt or decisive change. The expression “crisis” is apt because the crisis involves not just Kedah’s abattoir controversy or HINDRAF’s Kampung Buah Pala issue. These are but only manifestations and symptoms of some more deeply embedded contradictions confronting the entire PR proposition, and that even if these controversies are each resolved there’s no assurance that others of like nature would not recur. What is being challenged here is the very premises on which PR is constructed and bears on the question if it could still remain viable. First, what is the PR’s proposition? It is, as I understand it, to be this: that in spite of conflicting ideologies between secular pluralistic DAP and theocratic PAS with DSAI/PKR arbitrating in-between, PR will transcend -in the words of Dr Farish Noor in “Relativism versus the Politics of Absolutes – the “essentialist and primordial loyalties to race, religion and culture dominating and determining the norms of political praxis” that BN (in contrast) has pandered for and deepened in its more than 50 years of misrule” – and the proof of that is (supposedly) PR’s spectacular gains in depriving BN’s 2/3 parliamentary majority and gaining 5 states in 8th March 08 GE (and subsequent by elections gains by PR’s candidates). Are these premises correct here? PR’s victories in 8th March 08 GE (and subsequent by elections) were not because of PR’s strength in terms of cohesiveness but largely because of BN’s unpopularity and weakness. Farish’s “race, religion and culture dominating and determining the norms of political praxis” is very much alive and kicking, if the abbatoir and squatters issues are anything to go by. The problems of conflicting ideologies between DAP & PAS with opportunistic PKR in between come to sharp focus and is subject to the severest of test when PR’s component parties actually sit down to rule and govern! And when they do so they are faced with problems such as the Kedah’s abattoir and Kampung Buah Pala controversies. PR has raised expectations of its supporters in saying that it transcends “race, religion and culture” that it is showing it is not in position to gratify/fulfill. PR, and DAP in particular, should draw lesson from Pak Lah’s predicament. No matter how good intentioned, if one raises high expectations that one cannot fulfill/gratify, the multitudes disappointed will punish one at the next polls.... True, pig abbatoir caused a stench to nearby residents and was illegal (in sense not licensed to be there). Nobody challenges it should remain there. All that’s been asked was for PAS Kedah state government to approve and give a new site for the abattoir before demolishment. That was not granted. It shows intolerance on Alor Star Municipal Council’s part. PAS’s MB also gave no reprieve. DAP might want to show unity with PAS at coalition level but how is DAP’s sole representative in Kedah, Lee Guan Aik going to explain to his constituency that voted him why for 30 years BN administration had not demolished the abbatoir?? Illegality and stench might be the excuse whilst real reason would be perceived to be intolerance of a state administration that views it, from religious angle, haram. Same thing happened in Kampung Buah Pala. In spite of LGE’s state govt’s legal and financial limitations, HINDRAF agitators turn it into a racial issue.

YB Kit says “Pakatan Rakyat is facing a second crisis of confidence and efforts must be made to resolve it”. However before efforts could be made to resolve crisis, the nature of the crisis must first be understood. Crisis here means an unstable political condition with Pakatan Rakyat (“PR”), at a turning point of some imminent abrupt or decisive change. The expression “crisis” is apt because the crisis involves not just Kedah’s abattoir controversy or HINDRAF’s Kampung Buah Pala issue. These are but only manifestations and symptoms of some more deeply embedded contradictions confronting the entire PR proposition, and that even if these controversies are each resolved there’s no assurance that others of like nature would not recur. What is being challenged here is the very premises on which PR is constructed and bears on the question if it could still remain viable.

First, what is the PR’s proposition? It is, as I understand it, to be this: that in spite of conflicting ideologies between secular pluralistic DAP and theocratic PAS with DSAI/PKR arbitrating in-between, PR will transcend -in the words of Dr Farish Noor in “Relativism versus the Politics of Absolutes – the “essentialist and primordial loyalties to race, religion and culture dominating and determining the norms of political praxis” that BN (in contrast) has pandered for and deepened in its more than 50 years of misrule” – and the proof of that is (supposedly) PR’s spectacular gains in depriving BN’s 2/3 parliamentary majority and gaining 5 states in 8th March 08 GE (and subsequent by elections gains by PR’s candidates).

Are these premises correct here?

PR’s victories in 8th March 08 GE (and subsequent by elections) were not because of PR’s strength in terms of cohesiveness but largely because of BN’s unpopularity and weakness. Farish’s “race, religion and culture dominating and determining the norms of political praxis” is very much alive and kicking, if the abbatoir and squatters issues are anything to go by. The problems of conflicting ideologies between DAP & PAS with opportunistic PKR in between come to sharp focus and is subject to the severest of test when PR’s component parties actually sit down to rule and govern! And when they do so they are faced with problems such as the Kedah’s abattoir and Kampung Buah Pala controversies.

PR has raised expectations of its supporters in saying that it transcends “race, religion and culture” that it is showing it is not in position to gratify/fulfill. PR, and DAP in particular, should draw lesson from Pak Lah’s predicament. No matter how good intentioned, if one raises high expectations that one cannot fulfill/gratify, the multitudes disappointed will punish one at the next polls….

]]> By: yhsiew http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183203 yhsiew Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:56:46 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183203 Kit, Set up a PR Supreme Council with PR coalition component leaders as heads would be one way to reduce the number of crises in the future. For example, the Council can formulate rules such as all unity talks with UMNO must have the consent of the Supreme Council before going ahead, failing which participants of talk will be............. PR desperately needs to strengthen CENTRAL CONTROL to restrain little Napoleans within PR do things at their whim and fancy. Kit,

Set up a PR Supreme Council with PR coalition component leaders as heads would be one way to reduce the number of crises in the future. For example, the Council can formulate rules such as all unity talks with UMNO must have the consent of the Supreme Council before going ahead, failing which participants of talk will be………….

PR desperately needs to strengthen CENTRAL CONTROL to restrain little Napoleans within PR do things at their whim and fancy.

]]> By: lkt-56 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183197 lkt-56 Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:57:50 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183197 <i># distantmalay Says: Today at 03: 33.05 (3 hours ago) at last, kedah is pig free…..alas not pork free..</i> Learn to accept the reality that the world is never going to be pork free and you will feel less miserable. This may be of help: http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RSPCA/RSPCARedirect&pg=pigs&marker=1&articleId=1233061395386 ;) # distantmalay Says:
Today at 03: 33.05 (3 hours ago)
at last, kedah is pig free…..alas not pork free..
Learn to accept the reality that the world is never going to be pork free and you will feel less miserable.
This may be of help:
http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RSPCA/RSPCARedirect&pg=pigs&marker=1&articleId=1233061395386
;)

]]> By: katdog http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2009/07/03/pakatan-rakyat%e2%80%99s-second-%e2%80%9ccrisis-of-confidence%e2%80%9d/comment-page-2/#comment-183185 katdog Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:45:48 +0000 http://blog.limkitsiang.com/?p=4954#comment-183185 Such a big hoo hah over an illegal pig abattoir. And about the Kedah PAS leadership, the warning signs of possible 'trouble' were already there right from the beginning. How come nothing was done to prevent this 'break up' for the past 18 months? What were the PR national leadership doing? Now only want to fix. Such a big hoo hah over an illegal pig abattoir.

And about the Kedah PAS leadership, the warning signs of possible ‘trouble’ were already there right from the beginning. How come nothing was done to prevent this ‘break up’ for the past 18 months? What were the PR national leadership doing?

Now only want to fix.

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