Do take the trouble to understand before you find fault with the judges of the Court of Appeal


by N H Chan

Before you go about judging the judges of the Court of Appeal on their five minute oral decision which they handed down on Friday, May 22, 2009, please bear in mind the wise words of the most liberal of American judges, judge Learned Hand who once wrote – The Spirit of Liberty, p 110:

… while it is proper that the people should find fault when the judges fail, it is only reasonable that they should recognise the difficulties. … Let them be severely brought to book, when they go wrong, but by those who will take the trouble to understand.

I shall now try to help you take the trouble to understand the oral findings of the Court of Appeal. First of all we will look at what the New Straits Times, Saturday. May 23, 2009 has to say:

PUTRAJAYA. … In allowing the appeal by Datuk Seri Zambry Abdul Kadir that he was constitutionally appointed as menteri besar by the sultan on Feb 6, Court of Appeal judge Datuk Md Raus Sharif said there was no clear provision in the state Constitution that a vote of no confidence against Nizar must be taken in the assembly.


Raus, who sat with Datuk Zainun Ali and Datuk Ahmad Maarop to hear submissions on Thursday, said Nizar had on February 4 made a request to the sultan to dissolve the assembly under Article 16 (6) because he no longer enjoyed the support of the majority assemblymen.

He said Nizar had no choice but to resign once the ruler declined to dissolve the assembly.

“There is no mandatory or express requirement in the Perak Constitution for a vote of no confidence to be taken in the legislative assembly.” Raus said in a five-minute oral ruling before a packed court room.

That was all. That is the gravamen of the five minute decision. What the Court of Appeal has said above as reported in the New Straits Times had also been said by Mr Justice Abdul Aziz in the High Court in his well considered judgment – 78 pages on A4 paper. This is what the High Court judge said, at p 30:

It is not in dispute that His Royal Highness had exercised the royal prerogative in this case pursuant to Article XVI (2) (a) and (6) of the Perak’s State Constitution. However the applicant [Nizar] is not asking the Court to review His Royal Highness’ prerogative to appoint the respondent [Zambry] as MB Perak or His Royal Highness’ prerogative to withhold consent to dissolve the State Legislative Assembly. The applicant concedes that the two royal prerogatives are not subject to review and non justiciable. That is the reason, the applicant [Nizar] said, His Royal Highness was not made a party to the present disputes.

And at pp 36, 37 Abdul Aziz J also said:

Under Article XVI(2) of the Perak’s State Constitution His Royal Highness shall appoint as Menteri Besar a member of the State Legislative Assembly who in His Royal Highness’ judgment is likely to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the State Legislative Assembly. …

I never had any doubt that the exercise of the royal prerogative to appoint a Menteri Besar pursuant to Article XVI(2) Perak’s State Constitution is solely based on personal judgment of His Royal Highness and that His Royal Highness may resort to any means in order to satisfy himself and accordingly to form his judgment as to whom who is likely to command the confidence of the majority of the State Legislative Assembly that he can be appointed as the Menteri Besar to lead the Executive Council.

I also have no doubt that His Royal Highness has absolute discretion with regard to the appointment of a Menteri Besar and the withholding of consent to a request for the dissolution of the State Legislative Assembly. This is plain and obvious from the reading of Article XVIII (1) and (2) (a) and (b) of Perak’s State Constitution.

The High Court judge even agreed, at p 37:

… that if the Menteri Besar ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the State Legislative Assembly, he shall tender the resignation of the Executive Council, …

So then, how could the Court of Appeal overrule the judgment of the High Court when the higher court substantially agrees with the judgment of the High Court? The newspaper report is not very clear on this point as we are still unaware of the reason for overruling the judgment of the High Court judge.

However, according to the report in the New Straits times, Raus JCA did say, “There is no mandatory or express requirement in the Perak Constitution for a vote of no confidence to be taken in the legislative assembly.” So what if there is no provision for a vote of no confidence in the Legislative Assembly. The High Court had found that Nizar is still the Mentri Besar. To overrule the decision of the High Court, the Court of Appeal must explain why the judge of the High Court was wrong in finding that Nizar is the Mentri Besar.

The newspaper had even suggested that it could be implied in the ruling of the Court of Appeal that the Ruler had sacked the incumbent Mentri Besar Nizar:

The unanimous Court of Appeal ruling yesterday seems to suggest that a head of state can sack the incumbent head of government once it was determined that the politician ceased to command the confidence of a majority of the elected representatives.

The newspaper is wrong. That was not the finding of the Court of Appeal. In any case the monarch has no power to dismiss a Mentri Besar – there is no provision for it in the Perak Constitution.

The trial judge Abdul Aziz J in his judgment has explained why he found that Nizar is still the Mentri Besar. This is how he puts it – see p 54 of his judgment:

It is true the request may be made only under two provisions of Perak’s State Constitution i.e. Article XVI(6) and Article XXXVI (1) and (2). But the circumstances under which the request can be made is unlimited. The request under Article XVI(6) is specific to a situation where the Menteri Besar ceases to command the confidence of the majority in the State Legislative Assembly; whereas under Article XXXVI (1) and (2), [the] situation is unlimited. It is up to the Menteri Besar to choose his time to make the request. However once a request is made under whichever of the two provisions, it is entirely up to His Royal Highness’ discretion whether to grant or [not to grant] the consent to dissolve the State Legislative Assembly.

Then at pp 56-58 the High Court judge comes to this conclusion:

In my view it is alright if His Highness takes upon himself to determine who commands the confidence of the majority in the State Legislative Assembly that he can appoint as the Menteri Besar. Such determination however is only good for the purpose of appointing a Menteri Besar pursuant to Article XVI(2)(a) Perak State Constitution. This is so because that provision speaks of ‘who in his judgment is likely to command the confidence of the majority’. The language use therein requires the exercise of a personal judgment on His Royal Highness.

But the same thing cannot be said with regard to Article XVI(6) in deciding whether the Menteri Besar ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the Legislative Assembly. In this case His Royal Highness, through his enquiries has judged that the respondent [Zambry] has the support of the majority. But that finding does not necessarily mean His Royal Highness can form an opinion that the applicant [Nizar] ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the legislative assembly. One reason for this is that the expression ‘in his judgment’ is not used in Article XVI(6). … I am of the view that just because His Royal Highness had formed a judgment that the respondent [Zambry] is likely to command the confidence of the majority for the purpose of Article XVI(2)(a) to appoint the respondent [Zambry] as Menteri Besar it does not mean that His Royal Highness’ opinion or judgment is applicable in deciding that the applicant [Nizar] ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the Legislative Assembly. In another word, one cannot say that because His Royal Highness has judged that the respondent [Zambry] is likely to command the confidence of the majority in the Legislative Assembly therefore the applicant [Nizar] ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the Legislative Assembly. I would say that the personal opinion or judgment of His Royal Highness is irrelevant to the construction of Article XVI(6). The [other] reason is that Article XVI(5) Perak State Constitution states that the Executive Council shall be collectively responsible to the Legislative Assembly. Under Article XVI(2)(a) the Menteri Besar is appointed to preside over the Executive Council. Article XVI(6) speaks of “If the Menteri Besar ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the legislative Assembly …”. Reading these three provisions in Article XVI Perak State Constitution it is logical and in fact Article XVI(6) requires it to be so, that it is the Legislative Assembly that determines whether it has confidence in the Menteri Besar as the Head of the Executive Council. The Legislative Assembly may make the determination through a vote of no confidence against the Menteri Besar. (The Emphasis is mine)

It seems to us ordinary folk that the Court of Appeal has missed the point. They decided that Zambry was properly appointed Mentri Besar under Article XVI(6). That is not correct – he could only be appointed under Article XVI(2)(a). Since there cannot be two Mentri Besar and Nizar the incumbent Mentri Besar has not resigned and, further, since the legislative assembly did not decide if he has ceased to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the assembly, Nizar, unquestionably, is still the Mentri Besar of Perak.

Nizar’s case was that Article XVI(6) speaks of “If the Mentri Besar ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the Legislative Assembly”. The poser is who is to decide “If the Mentri Besar ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the Legislative Assembly” under Article XVI(6)? Certainly not the Ruler because the phrase “in his judgment” – which is used in Article XVI(2)(a) – is not used in Article XVI(6). If it is not to be the Ruler then who is to decide “If the Mentri Besar ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the Legislative Assembly”? The answer is in Article XVI(6) itself – only the Legislative Assembly itself could decide if the Mentri Besar ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the Assembly.

Article XVI(6) clearly states that the Mentri Besar who no longer commands the confidence of the majority of the Legislative Assembly “shall tender the resignation of the Executive Council”. This has to be done “unless at his [the Mentri Besar’s] request His Royal Highness dissolves the Legislative Assembly. But Mentri Besar Nizar could not admit that he ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the Legislative Assembly because he would not know until a vote has been taken at the Assembly to determine so. Only the Assembly itself would know if a vote is taken to determine whether the Mentri Besar has lost the confidence of the majority of the members of the Assembly.

Now that you have understood the five-minute decision of the Court of Appeal as well as the well considered judgment of the trial judge, you should be able to severely bring to book the judges of this Court of Appeal since you are now aware if they have done wrong.

Before I sign off, I wish to say a few nice words to the High Court judge. Mr Justice Abul Aziz Abdul Rahim is a fantastic judge. The judgment, especially the piece on the interpretation of Article XVI(6), is so good that it has persuaded me to change my mind on my view of Article XVI(6). If you remember my first article, I have expressed an opinion on Article XVI(6). Now I know I was wrong – and I have to thank Abdul Aziz J for showing me the way.

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  1. #1 by sheriff singh on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 3:57 pm

    Yes, now I understand, I think. Do I? May be? Hmmmm. May be not. Oh, what the heck.

    Just bubar-lah. So we can vote. Then it will be absolutely clear. That I can clearly understand. Understand?

    And all the wordsmiths, draftsmen, lowyars can waste your time in any way you want. It will be on your own time.

  2. #2 by SpeakUp on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 4:13 pm

    Guess some people do not understand why words are important … its sad.

    Too bad Mr NH Chan is not in the judiciary but has to stay at home and write such articles only of which probably none of the judiciary really cares about. This is sad … a waste of great human resource.

    NH Chan is a very meticulous judge, he will nit pick with the litigants and this gave him a nasty reputation amongst banking lawyers. They used to say he is anti banks because he got into trouble with a bank. The truth it he is clear about the law and the lawyers did fail to adhere to the rules precisely.

    If only NH Chan was on the bench for this case. If only …

  3. #3 by SpeakUp on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 4:16 pm

    “Now I know I was wrong – and I have to thank Abdul Aziz J for showing me the way.”

    This is called humility with an open mind to see what is right …

  4. #4 by Bigjoe on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 4:18 pm

    This argument, lengthy, detailed and not easy to follow, is easier to understand than that of the Court of Appeal. If I am not wrong basically N.H. Chan is saying the Court of Appeal made decision on the wrong issue. They were suppose to decide if the High Court made the correct decision on the issues not decide the case on a different issue i.e., they are saying the High Court was incorrect on issues NOT on decision.

  5. #5 by petyew on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 4:25 pm

    What I’ve understood is that the sultan can appoint but cannot fire, otherwise the entire executive will be under the thumb of the monarchy which will lead to abuse of power. Therefore the right to fire must be vested within the executive itself, that is to say that they alone can decide if the MB is good enough to stay or leave.

    Since the Perak state assembly never meet to decide on this crucial issue, the status of Nizar remains status quo and whatever took place after the Feb 5 power grab is illegal, no matter what the court of appeal has ruled.

    I just think that in resolving this complex legal issue one has to go back to square one and ask the question:

    Did the sultan erred in sacking Nizar by over-exercising his right to fire? Perhaps he thought he did have that right, which led to the complications today. Perhaps if he had consider his limited authority he would have averted the controversy and Perak today would have been a much stabler state under whichever government that come to power.

    I sincerely believe that Perakians are not too bothered whether Pakatan ruled Perak today or BN. It is just the method of taking over the control of the state government and ignoring the role of the legislature in deciding on whether Nizar remains or not that lead to such chaotic situation.

    I don’t believe the courts will be able to decide satisfactorily how the Perak problem can be resolved. Too much pain and anger has surfaced. My suggestion:

    1. Go back to pre-Feb 5.
    2. Grant dissolution
    3. Get fresh mandate.

    This has been the popular call so what is BN waiting for? Don’t let pride and arrogance hurt your future.

  6. #6 by a-malaysian on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 4:29 pm

    YB Kit,

    The very trouble thing is how do we bring to book the judges that had done wrong. The lawyers, bar council or MP should start to look into ways of bringing to book all those judges. We need to seriously take the necessary steps to rid of all these sickness in our judiciary.

    Malaysia For All

    GE 13 – No matter what, we must ensure that racist umno bn do not regain the power like they had for over the past fifty one years.

  7. #7 by riversandlakes on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 4:48 pm

    Only the Assembly itself would know if a vote is taken to determine whether the Mentri Besar has lost the confidence of the majority of the members of the Assembly.

    Wow. You’ve got that right!

  8. #8 by Godfather on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 5:28 pm

    They look at you straight in the eye and they say “so what?”. So what if we don’t write our judgments. So what if we say that black is white and white is black. They don’t owe us an explanation. We owe them taxes. That’s life in Bolehland.

  9. #9 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 5:37 pm

    There are several facts which have been made clear here by Retired Justice Mr N.H. Chan about the State Constitution of Perak:

    1) The Sultan has the prerogative to appoint someone to be the Menteri Besar based on his personal judgement on the fact that such a person has already commanded majority of the State Legislative Assembly when and only when a fresh state-wide election was just being held and the result of the election had been declared and made known to the public by the Election Commission.

    2) The Sultan does not have the prerogative to sack a Menteri Besar once the Menteri Besar has been appointed by simply basing on the personal judgement of the Sultan that the Menteri Besar has lost the confidence of the majority of the State Legislative Assembly.

    3) Once a Menteri Besar has been appointed, he can only be sacked by the State Legislative Assembly through the completion of Assembly Proceedings by a vote of no confidence against the Menteri Besar because the Menteri Besar is made responsible only to the State Legislative Assembly by the State Constitution and unlike the other State EXCO members, the Menteri Besar does not hold the post of the Menteri Besar at the pleasure of the Sultan.

    4) Since the Sultan has no rights to use his personal judgement to determine whether an existing Menteri Besar has lost the confidence of the majority of the State Legislative Assembly, any determination so made by the Sultan on the matter of whether the Menteri Besar has already lost the confidence of the majority of the State Legislative Assembly shall be declared as unconstitutional in the event that there is lack of a proper Assembly Proceeding for the motion of no confidence against the Menteri Besar which is to be tabled and passed by the majority of the State Legislative Assembly.

    5) Nizar will be sacked automatically by the State Constitution of Perak through a vote of no confidence passed by the State Legislative Assembly.

    6) Since there is no vote of confidence being cast in the State Legislative Assembly so far against Nizar, Nizar is still the legitimate Menteri Besar as at todate.

    Based on the facts stated above, there is good chance for Nizar to win the case again when Nizar appeals the case to Federal Court.

    However, I am of the opinion that Nizar will still be impeached by the majority of the State Legislative Assembly when a motion of no confidence against Nizar as the Menteri Besar is permitted to be tabled and then a voting process be carried out during the proper Assembly Proceeding of the Perak State Legislative Assembly. As for the time being, I will still recognize Nizar as the legistimate Menteri Besar of Perak.

  10. #10 by Godfather on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 5:51 pm

    “Based on the facts stated above, there is good chance for Nizar to win the case again when Nizar appeals the case to Federal Court.”

    Onlooker, what have you been smoking ?

  11. #11 by 1to1 on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 5:53 pm

    “It seems to us ordinary folk that the Court of Appeal has missed the point. They decided that Zambry was properly appointed Mentri Besar under Article XVI(6). That is not correct – he could only be appointed under Article XVI(2)(a). Since there cannot be two Mentri Besar and Nizar the incumbent Mentri Besar has not resigned and, further, since the legislative assembly did not decide if he has ceased to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the assembly, Nizar, unquestionably, is still the Mentri Besar of Perak.”

    Exactly. Where there is an existing MB, how can another MB be appointed? Therefore, Article XVI(2)(a) can only apply IF AND ONLY IF there is no existing MB, which is not the case here.

    Regarding who decides whether the existing MB has the confidence of the state assembly, it is obvious that ONLY the state assembly can determine that and not anybody else outside the state assembly. That was not done, so how can anyone draw any conclusion?

    These are grave contradictions in the sequence of events in Perak which have not been resolved to the satisfaction of any intelligent observer.

    It is not unreasonable to draw the conclusion that the change of government in Perak was therefore illegitimate because due process was not followed.

    Is it so difficult for the courts to decide on this?

  12. #12 by Loh on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 6:10 pm

    ///But the same thing cannot be said with regard to Article XVI(6) in deciding whether the Menteri Besar ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the Legislative Assembly. In this case His Royal Highness, through his enquiries has judged that the respondent [Zambry] has the support of the majority. But that finding does not necessarily mean His Royal Highness can form an opinion that the applicant [Nizar] ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the legislative assembly. One reason for this is that the expression ‘in his judgment’ is not used in Article XVI(6). … ///– N H Chan

    From the above clarification, the framers of the constitution have ensured that the Sultan cannot hire and fire as he wishes. He has to use his judgement carefully who he wanted to hire, and after that he cannot have an opinion on whether the MB still enjoy the support of the Assembly. That is the reason why the Speaker is the only person who is authorised to decide the memberships of the legislative assembly, and not the Election Commission.

    The subtle distinction requires a clear mind to interpret. Did HRH make the genuine mistake of reading the phrase ‘in his opinion’ into article XVI(6) when it wasn’t in there? Can he then tell Najib to back off? Or does Najib prefer to ruin whatever left of the reputation of the Judiciary in the country so that he can continue to utilise Perak for diverting attention, from himself?

  13. #13 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 6:23 pm

    ‘Godfather Says:

    Today at 17: 51.02 (13 minutes ago)
    “Based on the facts stated above, there is good chance for Nizar to win the case again when Nizar appeals the case to Federal Court.”

    Onlooker, what have you been smoking ?’

    Godfather,
    Sometimes we just have to be optimistic about our future.
    Don’t forget that a final court judgement will later become a case law by precedence. Therefore a final court judgement is always a double-edge sword — it can slay but it can save life too!

    Do you think Najib will want to give up all the Executive Power for selecting a Menteri Besar and leave all the choices of MB candidates to the sole discretion and absolute pleasure of the Sultan? If the Sultan is permitted to determine based on his personal judgement that a Menteri Besar has lost the confidence of the majority of the State Legislative Assembly, then it will be much more difficult for Najib as the Prime Minister to satisfy the possible execcesive demand of the Sultan in the future. I don’t think Najib will want to make it so much easier for the Sultan to sack an MB and reappoint another MB because after Nizar vs. Zambry case, there will be a new case law to be followed from then on.

    If Nizar does not make an appeal to Federal Court, that will imply that both Pakatan Rakyat and Barisan Nasional will have to accept whoever is chosen by the Sultan at His Royal Highness’ pleasure as the candidate for the Menteri Besar post. That will mean that the Sultan is much more powerful than the Prime Minister in the matter of state affairs and state rights. Do you think Najib will be such a dumb man to be willing to succumb himself to the control of the Sultan?

  14. #14 by rubini on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 6:40 pm

    This is the land of make believe. The High court judge ruled very carefully corresponding with state laws and gave written judgement and also the precedence prior to the Perak crises.
    The Appeal Court judges failed in any manner whatsover to give judgement that logical or constitutional. The duty of the Appeals court is to determine if the ruling by the High Court was correct or not. It is not the primary duty of the Appeals Court to “Disturb” the findings of the High Court unless it failed to address key issues.
    The Appeals Court judges never said this.

  15. #15 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 6:47 pm

    In a business organization, the system of checks-and-balances is made viable through a Standard Operating Procedure (S.O.P.).

    In the power structure of the Government that is meant to enable good governance, the system of checks-and-balances is also made viable through the Proper Legal Proceedings or Proper Assembly Proceedings.

    It is a fact that the State Constitution of Perak does not clearly state that in order to determine whether the Menteri Besar still commands the Majority of the State Legislature, a vote of confidence in favour of the Menteri Besar has to be cast and be passed through the proper proceeding in the State Legislative Assembly. Notwithstanding, the requirement for a vote of no confidence against the existing Menteri Besar for purpose of determining whether the MB still commands the confidence of majority of State Legislative Assembly has been implied in the antecedent of the constitutional provision, which states “If the Mentri Besar ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the Legislative Assembly”. It is an obvious negligence from the part of three judges of the Court of Appeal by neglecting to read the antecedent into their evidential facts for reasoning and making judgement.

    Since there is a negligence from the part of the three judges, Nizar will have good chance to win when he makes an appeal to Federal Court.

  16. #16 by boh-liao on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 6:50 pm

    Words! Words! Words! I’m so sick of words!
    I get words all day through;
    First from him, now from you!
    Is that all you blighters can do?
    Don’t talk of stars burning above;
    If you believe in rakyat power, Show me!
    Tell me no dreams filled with desire.
    If you believe in rakyat power, Show me!
    [With apologies to Eliza Doolittle]

  17. #17 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 6:55 pm

    “If you believe in rakyat power, Show me!” (boh-liao)

    Rakyat Power may be fragile without a gun in Rakyat’s hand!

  18. #18 by Ramesh Laxman on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 7:08 pm

    Just make sure that memebrs of the PR do not frog around in the future.

  19. #19 by House Victim on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 7:14 pm

    From the presentation from Mr Chen
    1. The MB is on the recommendation of the winning party after a State election and subject to the consent of HRH (the Sultan). Unless it is a replacement based on vacancy – then, I believe that goes to the ruling party.
    2. HRH has the Rights to accept the resignation of a MB, if the MB was voted out by majority. But, the MB has all his time to tender the resignation. The accept of his resignation has to go together with the dissolving of the Assembly for a new election. No procedures had been taken in this respect. So, legally, Nizar is still the MB.
    3. Even when point 2 had been taken, an election is still necessary to allow a proper nomination of a new MB subject to the consent of HRH.

    THE PROBLEM WITH CONSTITUTIONS AND LAWS ARE THEY ARE WRITTEN FOR LEGAL EDUCATED PERSONS ONLY. AND THEY CAN BE EASILY BE CONFUSED OR TWISTED AROUND BY MIS-INTERPRETATION.

    THE REFORM OF THIS COUNTRY HAS TO START WITH SIMPLE ENGLISH AND MORAL TRAINING OF LAWYERS AND JUDGES!!

  20. #20 by ekans on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 7:21 pm

    When the news of the 3 defectors leaving PR had been confirmed, the Pekan MP held a news conference with those 3 at his side, confidently telling the press and the nation that he would be going to see HRH Sultan of Perak and would be able to obtain HRH’s consent to form a new Perak state government led by UMNO’s BN.
    Obviously, the man had, in a rush, purposely skipped the part about having the state legislative assembly first conduct a vote of no confidence against MB Nizar to make way for a new MB from UMNO’s BN.
    I guess the Pekan MP wanted to avoid having this vote of no confidence motion to get blocked by the speaker V. Sivakumar, and eventually, result in an impasse, leading to the dissolution of the assembly and a fresh state election, and UMNO’s BN would lose its chance of forming a state government via defections from PR.
    In short, the Pekan MP shouldn’t have interfered and as a result, made a mess of it…

  21. #21 by House Victim on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 7:27 pm

    Continued:
    4. The Ruling Party is to be determined by General Election and not in the State Assembly. Therefore, for any party to nominate any MB, the party has to go through an election to prove its ruling status. The frogging of State Assemblyman can only be with the consent of the voters and not at his/her personal discretion as in most cases, election is not only on a person background but also his/her party.
    This is why the assembly has to be dissolved for a new election for the appointment of MB – a sign for the ruling party!!

    The Principle of why such constitution or law was made should be the guideline for any fair interpretation!!

  22. #22 by Godfather on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 7:35 pm

    Onlooker:

    What do you understand by the term “net present value”?

    Any decision by the Federal Court that goes against the Court of Appeals decision will simply mean a state-wide elections, which will mean that BN will lose by an even bigger margin which means that someone in UMNO will have to take the blame. That person will be Najib because he engineered the whole thing, and tried to take the credit from day one. Najib will not take this risk so early into his reign. He can’t afford it.

    He needs to buy time, at least until the next GE in 2013. Remember that if he controls the judiciary, he can engineer whatever interpretation of the constitution he wants. He can even tell the judges not to write their judgments, so what precedent are we talking about ? A verbal precedent ?

  23. #23 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 7:35 pm

    “Just make sure that memebrs of the PR do not frog around in the future.” (Ramesh Laxman)

    Perhaps Ramesh can get an PR candidate to sign an agreement before the the poll day of the next General Election. The agreement may be something like this:

    “In consideration of the financial sponsor, Ramesh Laxman, agreeing to pay the election candidate, Mr PR Rep, a sum of RM10 as the sponsorship for the campaign fund in favour of the election candidate, the election candidate hereby agreed to serve the constituents in the ticket of Pakatan Rakyat for full term until the legislature has been legitimately dissolved. In the event that the election candidate fails to observe his obligation of serving in the ticket of Pakatan Rakyat for full term in any reason whatsoever, the election candidate hereby agreed to pay a sum of Ringgit Malaysia five million as liquidated damages to the financial sponsor. This agreement has legal binding in Malaysia as well as other countries of the world.”

  24. #24 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 8:10 pm

    “He (Najib) can even tell the judges not to write their judgments, so what precedent are we talking about ? A verbal precedent ?” (Godfather)

    On the day of verbal judgement, Court of Appeal judge Datuk Md Raus Sharif did promise to write a verdict within this week. Perhaps we just have to give him more time to work and be patient to wait for the written verdict!

  25. #25 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 8:23 pm

    “Any decision by the Federal Court that goes against the Court of Appeals decision will simply mean a state-wide elections, which will mean that BN will lose by an even bigger margin which means that someone in UMNO will have to take the blame.” (Godfather)

    I disagreed with Godfather for this comment.

    The Federal Court can just rule that Nizar is the legitimate MB because there is no vote of confidence against Nizar insofar. However, when there is a vote of no confidence against Nizar as MB, then Nizar will be terminated by the State Constitution and ceases to hold the legitimate MB post with immediate effect.

    Later on, the Federal Court can rule in another case that Ganesan is the legitimate Speaker and V Sivakumar has been effectively removed in the valid Assembly sitting on May 7, 2009. Then Ganesan can approve tabling of a motion of no confidence against Nizar in the Assembly Proceeding and the motion be passed with majority votes. Then Najib can declare victory in his report card to Umno Annual General Meeting and seek for further endorsement for his political plan from the Umno AGM.

  26. #26 by Godfather on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 8:31 pm

    What are you talking about ? If Nizar is the legitimate MB, then the sitting under the tree would be legitimate, and the recent sitting where Sivakumar was forcibly removed was invalid, which means that there will be state-wide elections.

    Are we missing something here where Nizar can be the legitimate MB and then be removed by a vote in the Assembly when the time limit for a valid assembly sitting has already expired ?

  27. #27 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 8:45 pm

    Godfather,
    The Assembly sitting under the tree would never be ligitimate if there is to be judged by the High Court because there is no approving signature from the Sultan for the convene of Assembly meeting.

  28. #28 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 8:49 pm

    Godfather,
    If it is brought to the High Court, most likely the judge will judge that the appointment of Ganesan is valid because the convene of Assembly meeting had been endorsed by the Sultan and the notice of meeting had been duly served to the state assemblypersons.

  29. #29 by Godfather on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 8:58 pm

    So the courts can rule that Nizar is the legitimate MB but Ganesan is the legitimate Speaker ? But the May 7 sitting would then have been called by an illegitimate Speaker !

  30. #30 by KennyGan on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 9:07 pm

    ///But the same thing cannot be said with regard to Article XVI(6) in deciding whether the Menteri Besar ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the Legislative Assembly. In this case His Royal Highness, through his enquiries has judged that the respondent [Zambry] has the support of the majority. But that finding does not necessarily mean His Royal Highness can form an opinion that the applicant [Nizar] ceases to command the confidence of the majority of the members of the legislative assembly. One reason for this is that the expression ‘in his judgment’ is not used in Article XVI(6). … ///– N H Chan

    It does not matter if the sultan forms an opinion of whether the incumbent MB has lost the confidence of the majority because the sultan has no power to dismiss the MB.

    The sultan’s opinion only carries weight in appointing an MB; when it comes to dismissing an MB, his opinion is irrelevant because he has no such power.

  31. #31 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 9:08 pm

    Godfather,
    I know that Najib is trying to buy time therefore he will try to delay coming up with an immediate solution in Perak, including the delay in court cases of Perak fiasco.

    Why do you time Najib want to buy time for, if it is not for the reason that he needs more time in order for him to ensure the proper working of the positive time-lagged effect of his spending in Mini Budget? However, I can tell you frankly that even many conservatively managed businesses in Malaysia have already arrived at the critical stage of facing inadequate demand for the company products and facing the great illiquid company cashflow problem. The slowdown in the commercial bankers’ release of bank loans into the money markets have also aggravated the market liquidity problem. If you want to have a much better picture about the economic situation of Malaysia, then please stop looking at the indices of Bursar Malaysia but try to visit the nearby provision shops and ask the shopowners whether their businesses are good or bad. Most likely the shopowners will give you a much more genuine feedback about the economic outlook of Malaysia than the stock exchange indices!

    Even though there are some slight upward movements on the prices of Fresh Fruit Bunches (FFB) of Oil Palm, the prices of fertilisers and herbicides have also been going up. The present irregular climatic factors also caused significant drop in the FFB harvest and hence affected the income of small land holders badly. The income of the Malaysia Government will also be badly affected. The Mini Budget of Najib has already shown signs of failure at its initial stage of implementation. Therefore Najib needs to buy time in order to prop up his performance. Definitely, there will never be “Performance Now” for Najib!

  32. #32 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 9:16 pm

    “So the courts can rule that Nizar is the legitimate MB but Ganesan is the legitimate Speaker ? But the May 7 sitting would then have been called by an illegitimate Speaker !” (Godfather)

    I guess Godfather has a slide of pen here. He may indeed try to say that “But the May 7 sitting would then have been called by an illegitimate MB!”

    As far as I know, May 7 sitting was not called by illegitimate MB Zambry. Neither was it called by the legitimate MB Nizar. It was called by the Sultan, according to Assembly Secretary Abdullah Antong Sabri. According to Perak State Constitution, the head of Executive Branch is the Sultan. Therefore the Sultan has the rights to call for a convene of Assembly meeting.

    I am not a betrayer of PR. I just try to point out the facts here!

  33. #33 by Godfather on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 9:19 pm

    How does a Federal Court ruling in favour of Nizar and another court ruling in favour of Ganesan allow Najib to buy time ? Najib’s best assurance in buying time, at least until 2013, is to have the Federal Court uphold the decision of the Court of Appeals. That way, there is no further argument as Pangkor Pele is now the legitimate MB of Perak, the May 7 sitting is legitimate, Ganesan is the new Speaker, Hee Hee Hee is the new Deputy Speaker, blah blah blah.

  34. #34 by vsp on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 9:21 pm

    The Appeal Court’s ruling was based verbatim on Shafee’s arguments. That shows how incompetent the 3 judges are.

  35. #35 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 9:28 pm

    Godfather,
    Najib has also to make sure that the Federal Court will not permit the Sultan to grasp too much power to choose whoever person to be the MB candidate at the pleasure of His Royal Highness! I don’t think Najib will be so stupid to allow the Sultan the full power to sack an old MB and appoint a new MB as the Sultan wishes!

    If Najib is really so stupid to give up his prerogative power to choose an MB in his capacity of the head of the ruling party, then his capability and competence as the Prime Minister will be seriously questioned by the Umno warlords then. What benefit does Najib stand to gain by allowing the Sultan the power to sack an MB?

  36. #36 by House Victim on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 9:29 pm

    Mr Chen,
    Would appreciate your elucidate on the following:
    1. HRH has the rights of consent or reject for appointment of a nominated MB
    a) when a party came to rule the state? AFTER AN ELECTION. Or,
    b) when there is a vacancy?
    c) But, in either case, should any nomination come from the RULING PARTY, resulted from an ELECTION?
    2.
    a) A MB nomination can be rejected by HRH when HRH \think\ that proposed MB cannot command the confidence of the majority. Or, b) HRH can proposed a MB (subject to the consent of the ruling party) if HRH think someone can do it.
    3. Anyway, HRH cannot sack an existing MB based on HRH thinks that MB cannot command the majority but only if the MB been voted out in the Assembly.
    4. Nevertheless, HRH has full discretion if to accept or reject the dissolve of the Assembly.
    5. Conclusion:,
    a) Nizar remains the legal MB when he cannot be sacked by HRH and he had not resigned.
    b) Since the ruling party are to be elected by a general state election to give nomination of MB, BN cannot propose any candidate as MB for HRH to appoint. Therefore, HRH cannot appoint any nomination from BN as MB.
    c) If HRH rejected to dissolve the Assembly for a new election to choose the Ruling party, any further nomination of MB has to came from PKR, the existing ruling party.

    So,
    1. The High Court ruling that Nizar remains the legal MB is correct.
    2. The judgment from Appeal Court that Zambry has been legally appointed by HRH is incorrect.

    SHOULD THE RULING PARTY BE ELECTED VIA GENERAL STATE ELECTION TO GIVEN NOMINATION OF MB IS A VERY IMPORTANT POINT! This also clarify if frogging could change the status of a ruling party!

  37. #37 by Godfather on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 9:32 pm

    “What benefit does Najib stand to gain by allowing the Sultan the power to sack an MB?” Onlooker

    The warlord giveth and the warlord taketh it away.

  38. #38 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 9:35 pm

    “The warlord giveth and the warlord taketh it away.” (Godfather)

    If a case law has already been established and power be given to the Sultan to sack an MB, how does the warlords take the power away from the Sultan? The constitutional amendment will never be gazetted if the Sultan refuses to sign on the amendment approval!

  39. #39 by Onlooker Politics on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 9:50 pm

    If a case law is to be established for granting the Sultan the discretionary power to sack an old MB and to reappoint a new MB at the pleasure of the Sultan, then no one smart officers will want to give a damn look to the MB. Al focuses will be highlighted upon the Sultan since the Sultan will be the ultimate boss of the civil servants. Then the Sultan will be made the genuine head of the Executive Branch of the Government. Such a case law will have the danger of turning the political system of Malaysia into despotism!

  40. #40 by cemerlang on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 10:36 pm

    Peaple versus the very BIG people. How can you people allow people to sit there comfortably and not do anything to prove that they are doing sumting for you ? How can you people steal permit them to enjoy all the gold and diamonds while you sweat away ? How can you people not fill anything when you are being ordered around and you saying yes, you are right all the time ? This is te 21 st century. Did we regress bat to the time of legends ? Do we not want to moov on and change the sistem so that it is relevant to today and the future ? If it is time to change, then change it must be. Who are you to make decisions for all Malayshians ? You min, Malaysians are not as clever as you are ? Or anoter thought. You also have to be an oficial politician. Then you don’t have absolute power given trough inheritance. You will only have power when the peaple give you the power.

  41. #41 by miko on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 10:44 pm

    Relax … it’s not the fault of anyone. It’s the law that need to be amended!
    And we all know the clear cut smartest solution is to let the rakyat chooses.
    The judges and the politicians and the ex-ex judges are making a fool out of themselves, playing with words !
    This time the rakyat knows best !!! but were denied !

  42. #42 by monsterball on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 11:09 pm

    The fact of the matter is…there are so many interpretations of the findings…that this so call …this final finding of Zambry as the lawful M Besar of Perak is not the final finding at all…you bet.
    Men in the streets without studying laws do give wise and lawful opinions too….as law is sometimes commanded by commonsense and laws are made by men and men can interpret the laws based on their sincere ..truthful …needs and wants.
    The needs and wants are so clear…yet blind to the so call lawful wise men.
    Because it hangs on a thread..swinging like a pendulum…I wonder why is it so difficult to approve a State Election…firstly by our ex Lord President…the Sultan Of Perak…or by Najib…who claims to be people’s PM.
    Laws are made by men and what is happening in Perak shows how much low class politics have infiltrated into good laws….made to become political laws….not laws to protect the innocent at all.
    Who is the innocent and who is the victim ……almost all Malaysians are not interested to talk about….but vast majority Malaysians demand a State election.
    So happen..PR agrees to that too. They must have noted what people want and spoke on our behalf.
    Just imagine…had PR kept quiet……Najib may give up and say…”people wants it…people gets it”.
    Since he is sworn to oppose PR with his life…it will always be “what PR wants…PR will not get it”….and amplify it so clear to make DAP the so call …..main trouble causers… by raiding DAP Hq…and now…arresting DAP workers and politicians.
    Law is now..put aside. Subtle hint…Operation Lallang2… on the way.
    It is so clear….the findings will favour Nazir sooner or later…that near the end of the tunnel….to see the light….where Nazir will finally win…it needs Najib to divert our attentions….exactly like what Mahathir kept doing…to over up massive corruptions.
    People’s Power are no fools nor will be fooled by UMNO dirty tactics anymore…but DAP and PR politicians must prepare themselves for any surprises. We promise we will vote then into governing Malaysia…..even if all of them are in jail….by voting their chosen proxies..at their constituencies.
    Nothing Najib can do will change our minds.
    UMNO simply cannot be trusted and the leaders are not like before..since Mahathir took over.
    Corrupted to the core…..needs People’s Power to correct the mistake….by trusting UMNO too much and need to be voted out.
    Be fooled once….shame on UMNO.
    Be fooled twice…..shame on voters{People’ Power}

  43. #43 by sean on Tuesday, 26 May 2009 - 11:51 pm

    ??????

  44. #44 by sean on Wednesday, 27 May 2009 - 12:18 am

    I wrote few comments previously on uncle lim’s postings.It was during the time the high court declared that Nizar was the legitimate MB.That was the time when almost everyone hail the learned judged blah blah blah..praising till kingdom come.Like i said before….I still smell something fishy about all this.Call me a pessimist if you may.
    Our judiciary have been in a shambles ever since.Yes i do agree there are good judges but they are almost extinct or probably they are force so terribly to do what ruling govt wants them to do and hence they have got no 2nd option at all.
    Yes everyone praise this learned judge by the name of Abul Aziz .Even our honourable N.H Chan have start to look up to him.
    But what if…..what if this Abul Aziz was planted there all along by umno for the zambry vs Nizar case.This so called judge will be “god sent”someone that can “save us” blah blah blah.He could be in part of a play (ruling party =the movie director) in which his script will be the “HERO” that saves the day.And his script now is also to include a “WRITTEN JUDGEMENT” so Fantastic that even the blind can see.
    What if this learned judge all of a sudden becomes a judge in Anwar’s coming trial?And what if all these were being planned all along by the cruel ruling party?
    Look i have to be a pessimist here.Our judiciary like i said have gone down the drain and it is not easy to start to trust them again.
    The only way i can trust this judge abul aziz or any other so called good and honest judes is when they don’t sit still and do nothing.
    In fact they need to start to voice up even if their position as judges are at stake.

  45. #45 by ekans on Wednesday, 27 May 2009 - 12:27 am

    Looking at how this Perak power-grab crisis has ‘evolved’ since it started in early February, it is sad to see that the sovereignity of the state of Perak and its constitution have been trampled upon just because the Pekan MP had this urge to teach the P.Pauh MP a lesson about party hopping/crossovers.
    By right when those three defectors had left PR and became independent, and thus leaving equal numbers of ADUNs from PR & UMNO’s BN, the Pekan MP, as a federal government cabinet minister and as someone who was elected in a constituency outside Perak, actually has no business interefering in the affairs of the Perak state government.
    It would have been more amicable (and more civil) to have a representative of the PR ADUNs (most likely the MB himself, of course), a representative of the UMNO’s BN ADUNs and the three defectors meet together with HRH the Sultan of Perak over the best way to break the tie without letting the situation degenerate into a full blown crisis, instead of the Pekan MP himself rushing to meet HRH, with the full resources of the federal government in tow.
    Clearly, the Pekan MP lacked the foresight to see the serious consequences of his meddling…

  46. #46 by anna brella on Wednesday, 27 May 2009 - 6:09 am

    This might be a digression off topic here but based on what was mentioned here (by SpeakUp) about Mr N H Chan’s astute tendency to (rightfully IMO) nitpick with banking lawyers, this apt saying came to mind as it appears to be amazingly prophetic, given the current economic mess created by those in the banking and financial sector though their OTT greed-based gambling and stupid risk-taking:

    “I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. ”
    Thomas Jefferson (Attributed); 3rd president of US (1743 – 1826)

    “Imagine Power To The People” John Lennon.

  47. #47 by ALLAN THAM on Wednesday, 27 May 2009 - 7:56 am

    While NH Chan as a retired judge took the pain to explain what he taught was an unjust verdict, we as an ordinary people may not have the capability to fully understand why he has articulate, but the perception is simple. Look at the way the judge and all other enforcement agency take side politically, the ordinary citizen perception on the bias of the judiciary will not wrong very far.

    for those who has the long memory off course will still remember the sacking of Tun Salleh Abbas, we also remember what have been disclosed in the royal commission finding in the Lingam tape scandal. How the CJ has been seen to bias and thing like that.

    While we may have good judge around we will never see them to be of any influence as the executive influence was too great.

    If based on merit the CJ now shouldn’t it be Sri Ram rather then one who has hand pick by UMNO? People perception will always be the best judge unless and until it has been corrected.

  48. #48 by a2a on Wednesday, 27 May 2009 - 8:31 am

    Back to BASIC.

    The people elected the 3 frogs for PKR party.

    So the majority of PERAK is elected PKR party.

    Back to the simple BASIC.

  49. #49 by boh-liao on Wednesday, 27 May 2009 - 9:38 am

    The big, fat question that ppl must ask
    Who runs or run the country?

    OK, rakyat who voted in any GE
    But after the politicians were voted in
    the elected MPs then rule
    The rakyat or bosses who voted them in become irrelevant
    Some of the elected MPs become king or queen makers
    Even those politicians who failed to be elected in a GE
    get appointed as ministers via masuk belakang
    Then judges who ding ding here dong dong there
    also play a critical role in who runs or run the country
    Then the AG and the mata-mata also
    have a role in who runs or run the country

    Wa-lah, in Malaysia
    so many puppeteers pull and push the so-called
    Democracy or Controlled Fallacious Democracy
    Sadly the rakyat have no say
    after the initial priming vote-casting motion

    Frogs continue to jump
    Frogs continue to be big fat filthy rich
    The elected servants now tell the bosses
    what colour is haram, what colour is halal
    when fasting is haram, when fasting is halal
    when lighting candles is haram, when halal
    when meeting as a group is haram, when halal
    who get scholarships, who don’t
    who get into local U professional coses, who don’t
    who get APs, who don’t
    who get taxi permits, who don’t
    who get discount when buying houses, who don’t
    etc etc etc etc etc etc etc ……………….

    O O poor rakyat
    reduced to frustration
    getting nano-second of orgasmic satisfaction
    expressing their feelings in blogs
    while pining for their next king/queen making moment
    their ultimate orgasm – the 13th GE!

  50. #50 by chengho on Wednesday, 27 May 2009 - 9:44 am

    ekans /ekin,

    u hurt my feeling i m gonna go for hunger strike …i can last for 7 days without food and ice tea …..NIzar and gang still on hunger strike or not…

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