Just received notice from Parliament of a special meeting of Parliament on Monday on the Israeli invasion of Gaza.
Parliament will meet on Monday, January 12, 2008 at 2.30 p.m. and not the usual beginning of 10 am.
This is the result of the joint memorandum submitted by Pakatan Rakyat leaders to the Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi in Putrajaya last Monday (5th January) for a special Parliament meeting on Gaza.
The latest atrocity in Gaza is the killing of at least 40 Palestinians when Israeli forces struck a school run by the United Nations.
The world is faced with a humanitarian disaster in Gaza, whose water and sewage systems are on the verge of collapse because of power shortages – with more than 530,000 people among Gaza’s population of 1.4 million completely cut off from running water and the rest receive water only every few days.
The death toll in Gaza has exceeded 600 since the start of the Israeli offensive last month.
#1 by Tickler on Thursday, 8 January 2009 - 10:14 pm
Fatuous remains where it applies despite the dissimulation of one who slogs turgidly.
#2 by OrangRojak on Thursday, 8 January 2009 - 10:23 pm
Lee Wang Yen! I’m sorry about the program comment, it was intended to allude to a fear that I feel is impolite to suggest openly. The fear is entirely neutral as it concerns your person and character, but negative where it concerns a dialogue between you and I.
The difference between the scenario in your ‘bridge’ analogy and some of the topics you’ve been applying your analytical skills to is that in the case of the bridge, engineers would all agree (with a safety factor) that all the contributing phenomena in the bridge’s design are well-characterised. Those objecting to your analysis, are I think (because I don’t know), objecting on the basis that you have to make some assumptions that are sometimes difficult to accept. I vividly recall my first year AI lecturer using propositional logic to prove that God does not exist, and the needless uproar it caused in the lecture theatre. I think you may be witnessing a similar response.
#3 by Lee Wang Yen on Thursday, 8 January 2009 - 10:34 pm
OrangRojak,
The fundamental methodological principles of current best science abound with controversies.
Many scientists believe in scientific realism, i.e. the claim that well-confirmed theories in mature science are probably approximately true. But to defend this thesis you’ll need to deal with a lot of assumptions.
#4 by Lee Wang Yen on Thursday, 8 January 2009 - 10:40 pm
By the way, OrangRojak, I have no idea what you are referring to when you mention the ‘program comment’, which is ‘intended to allude to a fear’.
I don’t remember having any conversation with you on this.
The bridge analogy appears in my response to Undergrad2, and I wonder how that is related to the so-called ‘program comment’ which was ‘intended to allude to a fear’. Did you make this comment at all? Which comment is that?
#5 by OrangRojak on Thursday, 8 January 2009 - 10:54 pm
Don’t post so quickly, I don’t think that fast.
I’m unable to find that quote – did I imagine posting it? Perhaps I’ve been so indirect I don’t even know what I commented. Hang on, I’ll search for it.
I don’t know any ‘Scientific Realists’ – are they new? I hope we won’t have an argument about what ‘probably approximately true’ means. I’m not looking forward to that at all.
#6 by OrangRojak on Thursday, 8 January 2009 - 11:11 pm
How interesting… the page is in Google’s cache, but the keywords in the comment don’t index the page. I suspect the “Cached” link on Google’s result page actually fetches the page again. Or perhaps the clever people at Google have implemented a ‘fatuous’ filter.
Brute force turned up the page:
It’s on the dap-boycott-kuala-terengganu-by-election-over-hudud thread, #comment-152882
It wasn’t a conversation, I was hoping undergrad2 was going to stop provoking you.
#7 by hongsichuan on Thursday, 8 January 2009 - 11:42 pm
Undergrad2 must have vomitting incessantly now… and probably not well to be here to read this. Or he might have been quietly still following all the postings here.
His earlier remark “I think many of us have had enough of his … on this blog. Many of us have had to rush for the door everytime he walks in lest we run short of our supply of fresh air” reveals a few things.
For one, he would have been more gentlemanly if he has known that he should be writing “her” and “she” in place of “his” and “he” respectively in his remark.
Even so, it is easy to understand why Undergrad2 is turned off by the pompous intellectual behaviours shown by Ms Lee.
#8 by undergrad2 on Thursday, 8 January 2009 - 11:54 pm
A guy with a gal’s name??? Lemee outta here – again!!
#9 by hongsichuan on Thursday, 8 January 2009 - 11:57 pm
Oops.. I must have got the wrong Lee wang Yen. But it seems undergrad2 did not get out whe he said he was getting out…
#10 by undergrad2 on Friday, 9 January 2009 - 12:03 am
AhPek Says:
January 1st, 2009 (1 week ago) at 09: 33.58
See what I mean undergrad,he never misses any opportunity to display his prowess at sizing everything globally.Bloviating? Of course he will use his inductive reasoning,syllogistic arguments or maybe Boolean algebra that you are wrong.In simple language which only ordinary mortals like us know he has become a pain in the ass to quite a few people in this blog,and I don’t mind telling him so straight in the face!”
#11 by undergrad2 on Friday, 9 January 2009 - 12:05 am
hongsichuan Says:
Yesterday at 23: 57.41
Oops.. I must have got the wrong Lee wang Yen. But it seems undergrad2 did not get out whe he said he was getting out…”
The actus reus in the crime of rape??
#12 by owlz on Friday, 9 January 2009 - 12:42 am
The Crusades originally had the goal of recapturing Jerusalem and the Holy Land from Muslim rule… and were launched in response to a call from the Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Empire for help against the expansion of the Muslim Seljuk Turks into Anatolia… The Muslim presence in the Holy Land began with the initial Arab conquest of Palestine in the 7th century…
.
Once inside the city of Antioch, the Franks (Christians crusaders) then massacred the civilians, destroyed mosques and pillaged the city… The Franks or Frankish people were West Germanic tribes first identified in the 3rd century… The crusaders finally marched to the walls of Jerusalem with only a fraction of their original forces…
.
The Jews and Muslims fought together to defend Jerusalem against the invading Franks… They were unsuccessful though and on 15 July 1099 the crusaders entered the city… Again, they proceeded to massacre the remaining Jewish and Muslim civilians and pillaged or destroyed mosques and the city itself…
.
p/s: And it continued now until 2009… Already thousands years…
#13 by undergrad2 on Friday, 9 January 2009 - 1:09 am
hongsichuan Says:
Yesterday at 23: 57.41
“Oops.. I must have got the wrong Lee wang Yen. But it seems undergrad2 did not get out whe he said he was getting out…”
SiChuan,
For there to be a crime, there must be a double coincidence of the ‘actus reus’ and the relevant ‘mens rea’ of the crime. Sometimes you may have committed the actus reus of the crime but without the required mens rea it is not a crime. In the crime of rape, the actus reus would be penetration.
I do not believe any of us here wants to penetrate Lee and his logical thinking.
#14 by waterfrontcoolie on Friday, 9 January 2009 - 1:16 am
You know, the way Malaysians address this issue makes one laugh. One party refers to the will of ‘Heaven’ and wants to do the other party in; forgetting that the other party also refers to their ‘Heavenly Will’.
What have we to offer? If you just look at the posters put up by those guys who organised the ‘Ketuanan Melayu’ gatherings; what are they talking of? ReasonS? Pure Emotions!
Don’t forget the English Saying’ every dog has its day’.
History is history, if everyone wants to refer to history, I don’t think this world can find a moment of peace.
Gandhi may be quoted right, but do refer the context he said that. Even Mao preferred guns to elections after having being chased by Chiang through the mountains of China. Upon victory he could say that doctrine. had Chiang captured him, he would not have a chance to say it! Yes the victor will rewrite history!
#15 by tjwork on Friday, 9 January 2009 - 4:00 am
Hi, Many of you are clueless on whats really happening.
We have 2 sides talking as if they know everything, 1 on the jewish Israel & 2 on the Islamic pseudo palestina side. The problem is NO ONE is on the victims side.
There are phd courses dedicated to middle eastern history, and the history is very ugly.
Ever since the arab countries lost the wars against israel, they are finding ways to even up the score. What we have here today are 2 phases or a proxy war.
The surrounding arab countries promised the refugees homage & a new beginning prompting many promises but instead were denied everything. They instead try to go back but israel only accepted arabs that stayed with them before the war or those with ties.
Every arab leader also promised & deceived one another. the greatest loser was Jordan.
Today, Gaza is the proxy for Egypt & West Bank is the proxy for Jordan. If they dont do this, both of these countries would be attacked. Even the Jordan’s king (the decendent of islams prophet) was shot by a muslim from palestine. Ask why hasnt these countries try to annex them or enable them to form a new goverment with basic esprit de core?
These palestines are treated beyond rubbish and dogs by arab muslims themselves.
Do not believe the mass media about this conflict, If you are old enough to go through self studies, all these media were propagated with an end message. You will only fool youself.
What malaysians dont understand is that Malaya came to independence due to the acts of the jewish freedom fighters and from Israel. (dont ask me, find it yourself). They pretty much invented modern terrorism for liberation from the british. The same tactics were quickly copied from algeria to malaya (from the communist).
As for the refugees, they are not from cannan or the ancient palestine. A study that took many people dna across the globe were compared with dna from the dead, cross referenced to fond their geo origins. Guess what, not one turned up from ancient palestine.
These poor guys are from other arab countries that settled after each arab conquest.
This conflict is also a show & pay war. It literally means, start a war, ensure high collateral damage among women & children, Start a media frenzy coverage & get DONATIONS IN MILLIONS. They make an average of 2 billion USD a year in donations. Divide that with the number of refugees that live in makeshift houses with rats and roaches.
My question, Where does these money go to?
Israel is not the real enemy here. If it is ask any muslim living in Israel for any complaints? you will get none. The muslims there have more rights than non muslims in malaysia.
The IDF is no doubt guilty in many counts in handling palestine rough necks. If they turn their backs, they would be captured & amputated, NO JOKE. So their frustrations are targeted to suspects & the IDF solders that were caught were court marshaled.
If arabs can attack & defend themselves, why cant the jews & israel defend themselves.
Many muslim leaders in middle east are undeniably quoting the outcome that jews will be killed by muslims. Why such hostility for over 1000 years if all they want is to have peace?
I am for the victims side. I took this side after careful study and years of correspondence with my palestine & israeli friends. I urge you to do the same & free palestine from the real invaders.
#16 by HJ Angus on Friday, 9 January 2009 - 9:41 am
It is a sheer waste of time for our MPs to discuss the Palestine issue – they can’t even debate properly on recent laws that were so hurriedly rushed through.
And the Minister for Education will be wasting precious time of our school children by involving them to create some kind of wave that will force Isreal to back down – better the energy is spent solving the problems with good teachers for teaching English.
Here is another reason why our leaders cannot contribute anything to solving religious or political problems.
http://malaysiawatch4.blogspot.com/2009/01/malaysiakini-and-why-malaysia-cannot.html
Hell, we can’t even build a proper CIQ for JB after 5 years!
#17 by zak_hammaad on Friday, 9 January 2009 - 11:08 am
Once again, Israel has opened the gates of hell to the Palestinians. 44 refugees dead in a UN school, 3 more in another on Wednesday.
What is amazing is that so many Western leaders, so many presidents and prime ministers and, I fear, so many editors and journalists, bought the old LIE; that Israelis take such great care to avoid civilian casualties!
Have we forgotten the 17,500 dead – almost all civilians (mostly children & women) in Israel’s 1982 invasion of Lebanon; the 1,700 Palestinian civilian dead in Sabra-Chatila massacre; the 1996 Qana massacre of 106 Lebanese civilian refugees (more than half children) at a UN base; the massacre of Marwahin refugees who were ordered from their homes by Israelis in 2006 then slaughtered by an Israeli helicopter; the 1,000 dead of the same 2006 bombardment & Lebanese invasion, almost all civilians?
There has been no evidence that Hamas has used human shields. The fact is, as previously noted, Gaza is a small piece of property that is densely populated. Israel engages in indiscriminate warfare such as the assassination of Nizar Rayan, in which members of his family were also murdered. It is victims like his dead children that Israel defines as “human shields” in its propaganda. Pricision bombing is also a lie.
There is no legitimacy for this interpretation under international law. In circumstances such as these, Hamas is not using human shields, Israel is committing war crimes in violation of the Geneva Conventions and other applicable international law.
#18 by pulau_sibu on Friday, 9 January 2009 - 1:04 pm
Najib: We will continue to support Palestinians
what did he say?
We will continue to support Palestinians
We will continue to support Hamas?
We will continue to support terrorists?
#19 by Lee Wang Yen on Friday, 9 January 2009 - 5:04 pm
Hamas Does Not Use Human Shields?
Read the following news article from Jerusalem Post
Jan 8, 2009 18:11 | Updated Jan 8, 2009 23:34
IDF unveils Hamas map seized in Gaza
By YAAKOV KATZ
Paratroopers in northern Gaza have uncovered a map prepared by Hamas that shows how the terror group prepared for the IDF’s incursion by deploying different types of bombs as well as snipers throughout the town of Atatra.
IDF Chief Intelligence Officer Brig.-Gen. Yuval Halamish presents the Hamas map during a press conference in Tel Aviv on Thursday.
“On the map, the terrorists also marked sniper positions, as well as the location of roadside bombs, antitank bombs and land mines,” Chief Intelligence Officer Brig.-Gen. Yuval Halamish said on Thursday.
The map was discovered by soldiers from the Paratroop Brigade during operations in Atatra and was translated in the field and used to minimize casualties.
Halamish said the map showed how Hamas does not hesitate to use civilian infrastructure for its terrorist activity. A brown dot marked next to a mosque represents a sniper position.
“This is a civilian area, and you can see on the map how Hamas booby-trapped the entrance to homes to hit the IDF,” Halamish said.
In another case, a large bomb was marked next to a gas station. Had it been detonated it would have likely destroyed the gas station, killing and wounding civilians who live in the area.
In another case, soldiers discovered a mannequin dressed like a soldier at the entrance to a home, Halamish said.
Had soldiers entered the home, the mannequin would have exploded, collapsing the floor and causing the troops to fall into a tunnel, where Hamas men would have tried to abduct them.
Photo: Yaakov Katz
Slideshow: Gaza op, Day 13 The handwritten map is based on a bird’s-eye view of the town, likely taken from Google Maps. On the map, Hamas split the town into three sectors – red, blue and green – and highlighted important sites such as mosques, a gas station and a fuel depot.
#20 by Jeffrey on Friday, 9 January 2009 - 5:06 pm
According to Malaysiakini Team’s report | Jan 9, 09 2:38pm,
“5,000 people started their march from the Tabung Haji building – located less than a kilometre away from the embassy – right after the Friday prayers”, and
“Dr Mahathir Mohamad addressed some 500 people in condemning the Israeli invasion into Gaza. He repeated his calls for a boycott of American products and their currency.
“People should boycott McDonalds and Starbucks for a month,” he said.
He also urged people to leave their jobs from American firms.”
Is TDM going to offer jobs to those who leave their jobs from American firms?
Who owns McDonalds and Starbucks? Our local interest – under franchise.
TDM did not mention KFC unlike Titiwangsa Umno division deputy youth head Nazir Hussin Akhtar Husin who said his division would propose to the government to impose a nationwide week-long business shutdown on KFC, Starbucks and McDonalds – all American companies.
KFC Malaysia is majority bumiptra owned. The call hurts locals.
#21 by wesuffer on Friday, 9 January 2009 - 5:11 pm
BOYCOTT US PRODUCT IN MALAYSIA SHOULD NOT A GOOD SOLUTION. AND ITS WONT STOP ISRAEL ATTACKING PALASTINES.
BOYCOTT IN OWN COUNTRY WILL INVOLVED MORE VICTIM.
WHO IS THE OWNER OF MALAYSIA STARBUCK. ? IS BELONG TO BERJAYA.. BERJAYA IS MALAYSIAN TOO.
WHY WANT TO PROTEST IN MALAYSIA IF WE NOT HAPPY WITH US ? WHY WANT TO MAKE UNPEACEFUL IN MALAYSIA. WE SHOULD BE PROUD LIVING IN PEACEFUL COUNTRY MALAYSIA BUT NOT PROTEST AND BURN FLAG TO AGAINTS PUBLIC ORDER. TO ME THIS IS NOT A HERO.
ALL MALAYSIAN SHOULD START DONATION CAMPAIGN FOR PALASTINES
#22 by vsp on Friday, 9 January 2009 - 9:14 pm
Aija, debating the Palestinian issue in Parliament? Talk, talk and more talk.
Action please – send the 3 million Hamas-worshipping UMNO members to Palestine and fight the Israelis. Then each one of them can go to heaven and claim 72 virgins each.
#23 by Justitia on Friday, 9 January 2009 - 9:20 pm
Jeffrey and We Suffer, both of you are absolutely right about boycotting. This is a “wet dream” juvenile gesture that is basically cutting off your nose to spite your face. I worked for an American multinational and have no plans to quit. In fact, I will keep on frequenting KFC, McDonalds, drink Coke, etc.
We need to keep our focus on supporting our locals in this difficult economic times. We are just expanding too much energy on this distraction that has no strategic value to M’sia.
#24 by OrangRojak on Saturday, 10 January 2009 - 12:10 am
Soooo… does this mean the end of all those nasty, nasty Windows-based gov.my websites? Am I going to be able to browse them reliably with my non-Internet Explorer browser, now that the government is boycotting US companies? It would be interesting to see what major contracts the government won’t be signing with US firms this year.
MERCY Malaysia seem to be doing some good work with medical assistance in Gaza, perhaps if we save some money on a copy of Windows or Office this month and use Ubuntu instead (plug… plug…), we could send some of our saving their way. I’m a virgin when it comes to trusted avenues for donation in Malaysia, I hope someone will set me straight if I’ve erred.
I feel sorry for the franchisees who are caught up in this mess, that must be a pure ‘wtf?’ moment for them.
#25 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 10 January 2009 - 3:24 am
Yes, liquidate Petronas’s investments in securities denominated in US dollars. Stop raising loans in the world’s capital market in US dollars. Stop local banks from issuing letters of credit or L/Cs in US dollars and stop accepting L/Cs in US dollars. Stop discounting dollar denominated export/import bills. The mix of BNM’s forex reserves should not include US dollars.
That’s how stupid the idea is!
#26 by k1980 on Saturday, 10 January 2009 - 6:16 pm
Yeah, all Malaysians boycott Microsoft, Intel, Boeing, resign en masse from Motorola, Agilent, Western Digital, Dell and pull all our students from American universities. Ban all American movies and serials from Malaysian cinemas and TV. Replace them with those from Indonesia. Import camels from Saudi Arabia to replace the Boeings. We can always fix made-in-Malaysia wings onto the camels to make them fly.
#27 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 10 January 2009 - 6:23 pm
That’s logical thinking!
#28 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 10 January 2009 - 6:30 pm
“Import camels from Saudi Arabia to replace the Boeings.”
You need to consult the Malaysian Association of Camel Importers because the ones imported so far are those you get to see on the menu.