I am surprised that the MCA president Datuk Seri Ong Tee Keat is saying things that makes neither sense nor logic. It would appear that his short tenure as the MCA President has imposed such a tremendous pressure that he is speaking and acting, to many, completely out of character.
Yesterday, he came out with a blog entitled “DAP, not MCA, should boycott KT by-election”, which was promptly reported by the Star online, with the headline “Boycott by-election, DAP told” as follows:
PETALING JAYA: MCA president Datuk Seri Ong Tee Keat has asked DAP to boycott the Kuala Terengganu by-election campaign as a matter of principle if it is really against PAS’ plan to implement hudud and qisas laws if it comes to power at the national level.
He said if DAP chose to help campaign for PAS’ candidate in Kuala Terengganu, then it would mean that the party supported public whipping, amputation and stoning for criminal offences under hudud laws.
“Mere words objecting to PAS vice-president Datuk Husam Musa’s statement on the issue would not suffice if not demonstrated by action,” Ong said in his latest posting in his blog.
Ong is not making any sense firstly, as he is flying in the face of the DAP record and history in trying to suggest that the DAP supports “public whipping, amputation and stoning for criminal ofences under hudud laws” – a suggestion which is so ludicrous that it does not deserve rebuttal!
It will not be surprising if such a ridiculous allegation had come from his lowly lieutenants who have no integrity to defend but I am amazed and wonder what has happened to Ong that he could descend to such a depth in so short a time after becoming MCA President!
Secondly, Ong is also not making any sense with his blog as I never suggested that MCA boycott the Kuala Terengganu by-election.
Going by his logic, Ong should lead MCA to quit the Barisan Nasional unless UMNO leaders repent and withdraw their seven-year stand that Malaysia is an Islamic state which is not only unconstitutional but totally contrary to the Merdeka social contract reached by the forefathers of the major communities on the attainment of Independence in 1957 that Islam is the official religion but Malaysia is not an Islamic state!
On Sept. 29, 2001, the then Prime Minister and Umno President, Datuk Seri Dr. Mahathir Mohamad declared that Malaysia was an Islamic State, committing the MCA without referring the issue first for consultation with and consent of the MCA leadership and membership.
But there was no need for any prior consultation or consent from the MCA leadership in the “unequal relationship” between Umno and MCA, as evident from the quick public support given by the MCA leadership to the “929 Declaration”: that Malaysia was an Islamic State, although this went against all that the MCA founding fathers in particular Tun Tan Cheng Lock and Tun Tan Siew Sin had stood for.
Who is really to be blamed for UMNO playing the “bully” in the Umno-MCA relationship?
In the past seven years, this “929 Declaration” that Malaysia is an Islamic State was repeated again and again by Umno leaders, the latest by the Prime-Minister-designate Datuk Seri Najib Razak, in July last year, with the MCA leadership continuing to give tacit support.
Going by Ong’s logic in his blog, shouldn’t he be leading the MCA to quit Barisan Nasional unless UMNO leaders repent and withdraw their seven-year-old stand that Malaysia is an Islamic state, especially when this is clearly against the Malaysian Constitution and the Merdeka “social contract” that while Islam is the official religion, Malaysia is not an Islamic state?
Ong and MCA should learn from the DAP, for DAP leaders had no hesitation in publicly declaring that PAS Vice President Datuk Husam Musa was wrong and mistaken as hukum hudud is neither DAP nor Pakatan Rakyat policy – leading to Husam admitting that the DAP is right.
I will like to know where Ong got the idea that I had proposed that the MCA boycott the forthcoming Kuala Terengganu by-election, resulting in his retort that it is the DAP which should boycott the by-election.
On Wednesday, I had said that “there is no need for MCA to help in the Barisan Nasional campaign for the Kuala Terengganu by-election next month” if Ong could not publicly furnish the answers to the Five Questions I had posed to him in April about the RM4.6 billion Port Klang Free Zone (PKFZ) scandal
My language was simple and clear. I was not asking the MCA to boycott the Kuala Terengganu by-election but giving a clear warning that the new MCA President and leadership risk being exposed in the by-election as having failed to honour Ong’s public pledge on accountability, transparency and integrity by “telling all” about the RM4.6 billion PKFZ scandal – as Ong’s press conference on Sunday was nothing but a “cover-up” and a “white-wash” of the RM4.6 billion PKFZ scandal!
My warning to Ong remains – that unless he is prepared to honestly and truthfully answer the Five Questions on the RM4.6 billion PKFZ scandal, in particular the role of the two former MCA Transport Ministers, he will be confronted with these questions in the Kuala Terengganu by-election and the MCA will not be rendering any help to the Barisan Nasional by-election campaign if the MCA President and leadership are seen as terribly defensive or worse, as being “on the run”, from giving full and proper accountability for the PKFZ scandal.
#1 by monsterball on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 10:39 pm
Godfather….Jeffery is trying to proof he is smarter than Lee Wang Yen…..hahahahahaha
Just glancing through his long message…can anyone tell me…what the heck is he talking about?
So save your energy for more future smart alexes coming to talk nice……get you to like him….then apply..agree to disagree…than…suggest..third force…and what have you.
These are the scums of our own race.
Beware old and real educated ones.
Yes….MCA and Gerakan members……almost 100% Chinese are the hindrances to a united Malaysia Malaysian………but situation changed …and we must not allow anyone…to pull young readers to think like them.
Those two parties are actually dead and gone…but few are still trying hard to win votes.
It’s a simple battle….for or against.
And I sincerely hope Lee Wang Yen..go register to vote..and use his powerful vote properly.. .with a real sense of responsibility to Malaysians and country..not to any party..not vote based on his selfish benefits.
His choice is so simple…as…. if he is really sincere…he should support change of government…having seen and read so much.
But did he really read anything at all??
So better late than never…and any idiot will want …change of government…after more than 52 years by one.
Jeffery you say?
That’s a gas bag….blowing his own trumpet.
Actually..it is easier to deal with pro UMNO Muslims munafiks.
They will curse me …belittle me…threatened me and the more they do that..I am happy ..as I know I am right.
#2 by Godfather on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 10:49 pm
The more I read about Jeffrey pompous posting of 19.37.09 above, the more I fume at these academic pronouncements.
First, he says that it would be difficult to have free and fair elections if PAS becomes the dominant party in the triumvirate that comes to power in the federal government. Reason ? No theocratic government has ever been deposed.
Second, he says that sovereignty of the people will be usurped by sovereignty of the Almighty in the event PAS gains the upper hand and that this will be difficult to reverse as there will be “large scale indoctrination” to remain in power.
Third, he says that the system accountability and transparency with rules for checks and balances won’t apply in the event of a PAS ascension as they (the Islamists) would claim to be ordained by the Almighty.
Fourth, he says that corruption will still be prevalent because “it is human nature that power tends to corrupt” and that Islamists don’t apply rationalistic principles.
Jeffrey, do you even know what slippery slope you are on with such comments ? Why are you even on this blog ? You should be commenting for Wong Chun Wai.
#3 by OrangRojak on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 10:49 pm
Possibilities are not the domain of the academic, idle conjecture is something we can all enjoy. Since this is an open-access blog, and not a DAP MLM training resource, I would like to see differing points of view met with less hostility. I imagine most contributors who can manage the occasional “on the other hand” (a balanced opinion, as opposed to a single focus of desire, firmly grasped with both hands) are fully aware that winning in KT is a matter of strategy. Not only of strategy, but of the kind of strategy that almost any 5 year old with a rudimentary grasp of how to win games of Monopoly could formulate.
I still don’t fully understand why Malaysian parties are obliged to present themselves as “BN/PR”, “Black/White”, “Yin/Yang”, “Lingam/Yoni” or whatever. I understood that in most countries that pretend to democracy and free elections, the parties campaign on distinctive policies and form a coalition if they absolutely have to, but only after the votes have been counted. It seems to me that campaigning as 1 of 2 monolithic parties “Same” and “Different” is going to lead to a dumbing-down of politics when it is already hardly better than “Vote nice suit / vote nice man”. Voter apathy is an apparent risk.
There is a vote to be won, and perhaps only one brain-dead way to do it. But if the means to achieve the end is “the same siht, only we did it better”, some of us probably won’t be cheering quite as loud as we possibly could.
#4 by monsterball on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 11:07 pm
Godfather…Jeffery is talking like an UMNO or any BN member.
He is right!!
DAP dare to sleep with the devils….as DAP is so powerful..so popular that even the devil need to obey DAP…or else.
You see…DAP trying to save a devil like PAS..from making wrong moves…is smart and good politics..as long as DAP decisions..are for the benefits of all Malaysians.
And Malaysians keep trusting ad respecting DAP more and more.
Mahathir even said.. DAP is a Chinese political party.
You mean Mahathir cannot spell out DAP..”.Democratic Action Party” properly? What is UMNO..MCA and MIC…mean??
Again I write this for young readers like Lee and Jeffery..to understand….don’t be fools.
Dirty politics stated by UMNO and BN…on going….and yet…they expect DAP to be all good and saintly?
Learn this ….words….”ULTERIOR MOTIVES”.
What is the ulterior motives….when ever you say or do anything.
It’s conscience checking words.
I dare say…DAP ulterior motives….are totally sincere and smart move to win freedom for Malaysians.
So let those young buggers talk as much as they like…but we must battle them…as truths always win.
You and others are doing a great job. Keep it up.
#5 by OrangRojak on Saturday, 27 December 2008 - 11:50 pm
Not totally off-topic – in The Star’s “DAP outlines objections to PAS plan for hudud laws”:
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/12/23/nation/20081223202828&sec=nation
What judgement is Karpal Singh referring to when he says:
– is a record available online anywhere? Maybe our friends at digitallibrary can dig something up.
And if that decision carried any weight at all, why wasn’t the opportunity taken to adjust the vague language in the Constitution?
#6 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 2:12 am
Godfather said “Jeffrey, do you even know what slippery slope you are on with such comments ? Why are you even on this blog ? You should be commenting for Wong Chun Wai.”
Is there any prerequisite or pre-eligibility or conditions in this blog before one can comment? If so what are they? Please state.
Because of what I said about the PAS’s position on the Islamic State, I should be commenting for Wong Chun Wai?
Conme come don’t talk like a child.
Just like the other comment “…..but for the moment I know which side I am on, and which side I am against. Do you ?….”
Of course I know that you know which side you are on – PR’s side (including PAS).
So do I – but on the side of the truth, as I see it, and the extent it can help Malaysia.
It may not be your truth. That is however no excuse for you to hurl insults at persons whom you do not agree. Can you not disagree in a civil and a rational way without running people down when what they say displease you?
are you having a problem discussing an issue dispassionately?
Come plump it out, it is in your words “The more I read about Jeffrey pompous posting of 19.37.09 above, the more I fume at these academic pronouncements……..”.
Your fuming makes it no more or less academic. It is only your opinion. I don’t fume. I find what you say and how you react most entertaining. :)
#7 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 2:46 am
However I must say your fuming has a downside. It generates words like “lap dog” “kid” etc that you describe other posters which has been your consistent trade mark of attacking the messenger as a way of attacking the message or a posting that you find unacceptable or untrue to you. Is there anyone else here who disagree with your viewpoint would however disparage you as “kid”, not in touch with reality, lap dog etc to argue and convince other of his point?
I don’t know whether in resorting to such an intellectually dishonest method (of attacking messenger in order to discredit the message), it is attributable to congenital arrogance, dogmatism or plain trying to insult the intelligence of readers here and rabble rouse their emotions.
#8 by Onlooker Politics on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 3:38 am
The comments contributed by the readers of this blog, whether they are supporting view, dissident view or dissenting view, in response to Uncle Kit’s call for renounciation of Dr. Mahathir’s “929 Declaration of an Islamic State in Malaysia” are very informative.
However, most commentators failed to present a strong argument on why an “Islamic State” in Malaysia could possibly turn out to be evil for the Malaysians.
The founding father of the United States, especially the famous constitutionalist like Thomas Jefferson, had been able to lay the foundation for a “Secular State” in the U.S. by introducing the concept of Separation of Church and State into the U.S. Constitution.
However, those MPs from either MCA or DAP have not been able to do their homework in order to come up with a persuasive concept of Separation of Mosque and State after the long-lingering argument has been carried out on the weary issue of Islamic State in Malaysia. I am really disappointed with this inadequacy in Malaysian Politics.
I feel even much more disappointed with the absurd argument of someone who claims to be the Cambridge Academician, which suggests that it is alright to trade for the short-term political gain by giving support to the “929 declaration” at the expense of the political principle of advocating a secular state. Based on this argument, the political stand will swing towards MCA and move away from DAP simply because it is absurdly argued that UMNO’s Islamic State is a lesser evil than PAS’s Islamic State. Alas! What a big logical fallacy we find in this ambiguous argument! Where does the proponent of this “lesser evil” assumption stand now? Is he a good guy or a bad guy?
I think the biggest threat to the secularism of Malaysia is not so much coming from the proponents of theocratic Islamic State as most people perceive, but it is largely coming from some naive but try-to-be-smart so-called social elites who do not even know where to stand upon as the foothold for their political belief, if they do have a poltical belief!
Godfather and Monsterball are probably right in saying that there is no possibility for the existence or survival of a third choice (Political Independent) in Malaysian Politics. However, I have yet to listen to them on the rationale which would justify teaming up with the devil in order to grasp the power for good purpose, whatever the purpose could be! Why in the first place did DAP agree to accept PAS? Does the administrative power really makes meaningful life to DAP? Does the end itself really justify the means? Would the DAP wise men please tell me the answer?
#9 by monsterball on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 6:59 am
Onlooker Politics is looking for a religious matter…which vast majority Malaysians are really not interested…Islamic State…Circular State…hudud laws…and what not.
If h is interested to know all the details..he should listen to RPK’s speech at the Bar Council and the write ups by him at his blog……Malaysia-Today.
Go battle RPK..if you disagree.
Like I said…UMNO fish votes with races and religion….so out-dated.
Is Onlooker Politics writer…interested in out-dated stuffs?
But if he want my opinions….all religious guidances are good for mankind.
It is mankind using religions ..twist them to control the minds..that are sinful.
Quite alot lot…….but still a great minority…muslims minds are being controlled successfully by UMNO and PAS for years….and these will confused them further.
Onlooker…..you can say…Godfather and I will not divert LKS”s blog to please you….but we know who you will vote for….don’t we?
Waste of time. What a bloody fool
#10 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 7:02 am
I think Onlooker Politics has either misread me or ignored some of my posts. As it is clearly shown in my comments here, I don’t accept MCA’s acceptance of the declaration. I reject both BN and PR. It is for this reason that I was chastised by Godfather and his friends. I say that UMNO’s declaration of Islamic state and PAS’s Islamic state agenda are both evil, though the former is a lesser evil. When we are forced to choose between two evils when these are the only available options, we have no choice but to choose the lesser one. But I argue that in this particular case, there is no need to choose between these two evils, for we can attempt to create a third option to avoid or get out of the dilemma.
Jeffrey and I did discuss and cite articles about secularism and the importance of the separation between church and state in a series of threads just before the 2008 general election, as referred to by Godfather in one of his earlier posts here. Dr. Ng Kam Weng, a Malaysian, has done some research in this area and given talks on this topic. I seem to have a vague impression that one of his talks was advertised in this blog.
Discussing issues in this blog gives you some idea of what it looks it to discuss things in our parliament, where we find MPs talking like bullies and attacking people rather than points.
I do hope to have a better understanding of issues like the distinction between ‘probabilities’ and ‘possibilities’, as my current research has to do with probabilistic inference in science. But I’m truly amazed by how some people are so ready to assert confidently as facts things that they do not know about a person – e.g. that he is a student, that he resides in UK,…etc.
#11 by monsterball on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 7:20 am
Look at that kiddo…Jeffery needling Godfather to battle him.
I totally agree with Godfather.
We do have few smart university students here..obviously MCA or UMNO guys….trying to expose DAP weaknesses.
I will do exactly like Godfather….expose them.
That’s enough.
Let them yell till next election.
They are desperate to debate on subjects…that Pakatan Rakyat won votes gunning them down….exposing them….last election.
That’s enough. We are riding on high ground.
These desparados are trying to be heroes for deadwoods.
Let those shameless ignorant fools ……or a small handful of such smart university students….put on a soap box..and yell at the streets.
After all…..they are the future most educated people of Malaysia.
And I bet you..if you carry the balls of UMNO and BN..with your speeches…policeman will give you time.
There dare not be that brave!! As that will expose their faces..and their balls will start shrinking.
Love to hear them talk like at at Petaling Street……hahahhahahaha
Aiyayayaya…….such lost in the woods.. kiddos here.
Sad for them…..but like I said….read….listen…..ask questions and learn.
Islamic issues?….not interested. Next question?
#12 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 7:25 am
Who claimed to be a univesity student here?
#13 by monsterball on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 7:40 am
Oh…….I see….Lee writes.. to get knowledge for his thesis.
How smart,
Well young man..you pick the wrong time…wrong place …wrong situations…wrong people..{not us…UMNO MCA/Gerakan guys..are the wrong people}…..wrong conditions..wrong atmosphere….on and on and on.
I can sincerely advise you….if you do researches…observed..you will see…fear factors applied by UMNO….ISA used to shut mouth…not catch communists….billions taken and gave out to UMNO cronies….talk race and religion dirty out-dated politics….to disunite Malaysians…are great actors….never sincere……most cunning..corrupted lot.
Treat Malaysians like animals with tear gas and water cannon treatments for no reasons…hoping to create anger…and arrest them.
Five Indians arrested under ISA…not communists…..but dare to speak against their giovernment.
What type of democracy we have..young men?
So all young universirt6y students…are these facts or fictions??
Go conclude….make up your mind…for or against UMNO and BN…and your thesis is there so easy to put out.
But if you got lousy political lecturers pro UMNO or BN….alot depend on your god gifted commonsense and power of understanding.
No one can help you now…..maybe after 13th election…you will understand more.
#14 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 7:48 am
I’m not a university student.
You clearly didn’t get the point I made to Godfather: it is risky to ridicule someone of being ignorant about the distinction between possibilities and probabilities when you do not know him. For all you know, he may be an expert in this area.
#15 by monsterball on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 7:54 am
hhmmm Lee said he is a university acadamic.
Is he saying he is a lecturer?
You see..no matter how smart..how excellent you have mastered the English language…no one understands your message..means you are a lousy writer. You SAID..YOU are writing a thesis. So..you are a student la.
My message to him…fell on deaf ears.
Am I talking to a man from the moon?
#16 by monsterball on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 7:58 am
Lee Wang Yen….If you keep on talking in riddles….maybe you should apply for next Batman movie.
With loving kindness I write to you….and you give back..ambiguous reply?
You have no respect for the elders.
Go to hell with you.
#17 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 7:59 am
Did I say that I was writing a thesis?
I said that I was engaged in some research. University academics are involved in research.
#18 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 8:18 am
“Intellectually dishonest” methods ? Calling someone a lapdog (and clearly Lee Wang Yen is Jeffrey’s lapdog if someone had been following his postings for the past 12 months) is not wrong. Empirical evidence, as the academics would know.
You want kids’ gloves, go somewhere else. This is a blog for men who care, not for men who spew theories and talk in riddles.
#19 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 8:21 am
I was indeed surprised. Plain words like ‘university academics’ are taken as riddles!
When you misunderstood a plain word, just admit it. Don’t accuse others of talking in riddles.
#20 by monsterball on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 8:25 am
I am saying your whole message…you dumbo.
You guys really sucks!!
#21 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 8:27 am
Re my posting of 22.49.18 above, all Jeffrey did was to attack (or ridicule) the word “fume”. He did not dispute the summary of what I said was clearly a racist and irrational position of this so called “truth-seeker”. Let me regurgitate Jeffrey’s position and let readers judge whether such a person should be deemed to be “dangerous”:
First, he says that it would be difficult to have free and fair elections if PAS becomes the dominant party in the triumvirate that comes to power in the federal government. Reason ? No theocratic government has ever been deposed.
Second, he says that sovereignty of the people will be usurped by sovereignty of the Almighty in the event PAS gains the upper hand and that this will be difficult to reverse as there will be “large scale indoctrination” to remain in power.
Third, he says that the system accountability and transparency with rules for checks and balances won’t apply in the event of a PAS ascension as they (the Islamists) would claim to be ordained by the Almighty.
Fourth, he says that corruption will still be prevalent because “it is human nature that power tends to corrupt” and that Islamists don’t apply rationalistic principles.
Nah, his pronouncements are not only dangerous and extreme, this person has no place in a multi-racial society.
#22 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 8:36 am
“So do I – but on the side of the truth, as I see it, and the extent it can help Malaysia. ” Jeffrey QC
The truth ? Most of what you said are mere postulations. About “what ifs”. About applying global precedents to future possibilities in Bolehland. “Show me a theocracy that has been overthrown.” “Show me a first world theocratic country.”
What you guys say about PAS and Islam cannot help Malaysia but aggravate it.
#23 by monsterball on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 8:38 am
hi smart ass…’academic’…are you a student or lecturer?
If you are a lecturer….how many years have you lectured?
I got few applicants passed of with marketing degrees…and straight away…want to be Sales Manager……..no practical experiences…no proven..management skills!!
God help those University students studying under a greenhorn lecturer.with an unsound mind.
No wonder great lecturers Malaysia resign and find careers elsewhere.
How to teach guys who are most half pass sixes..bull dosed to Universities..by UMNO..to please parents and get votes?
So Lee….if you are a lecturer..don’t be too proud of it..in most of our TONG SAMPAH universities. I think you are smart ..trying to be ambiguous.
#24 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 8:43 am
We have a by-election on Jan 17. We want to honour our commitment to PR. We want to campaign for the PAS candidate. All that Ong Tee Keat and Wong Chun Wai want to do is to sow the seeds of discord between PAS and DAP, the topic of this thread.
All that Jeffrey and Lee Wang Yen have done is to add to whatever little discord there is between two oddball partners. With their racist remarks and their air of superiority.
Does the DAP need friends like these ?
#25 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 8:43 am
I’m surprised by the need to explain plain words like ‘university academics’ here. The word refers to university teaching or research staff, and is not usually used to refer to students, not even graduate or postgraduate students.
#26 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 8:45 am
DId I say that I was an academic in a Malaysian university?
#27 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 8:45 am
Monsterball, I don’t think the kid has even voted or registered to vote in Bolehland.
#28 by Lee Wang Yen on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 8:46 am
When DAP voiced their disagreements with PAS, people praised their democracy. When DAP supporters voiced their dissents, they are deemed as enemies.
#29 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 8:50 am
Are you a DAP supporter, Lee ? Have you registered to vote ?
#30 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 8:52 am
Or maybe we should call you a “DAP dissenter who has yet to vote”. Is this an accurate observation ?
#31 by monsterball on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 8:56 am
The wind of change is strong and clear.
If DAP have friends like Lee and Jeffery..they don’t need enemies.
But these are children…starting to earn a living…with braggart attitudes
Hi kiddos…life is full of struggles. The more you suffer .the more you will learn..to be smart.
It is trying to be arrogant and too smart…thinking your degrees are the passport to success…that will kill you one day.?
You are dreaming a fool’s dream.
Remember this….productivity…to be recognized and respected….these are the magic words to possibly get you somewhere…provided you do work for a company…playing company politics too.
Certainly universities…are playing race politics..in Malaysia.
You never answer my questions.. I ask….are you a registered voter and how many years you are lecturing.
Hi..we do not owe you a living..you smart no manners young punks.
Answer my points…or else…you are actually the present clowns in this blog.
I hope you are not Malaysian Chinese…to shame us.
#32 by monsterball on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 9:09 am
I mean..you should not work for a company that play company politics.
Most old international companies have no time for guys that can talk .with no productivity results..except some universities that may year mark you for promotions..if you learn the art ..to carry UMNO and BN balls.
Not an easy art to learn…but vast majority Malaysians have principles in life…that despises
But all these will change soon.
So change your arrogant attitudes and learn to be nice to the people trying to teach you,
So many Muslims so smart to lean from the devil Mahathir.
Do you want to learn from…Ong Tee Kiat and Koh Tsu Khoon?
ARE YOU NUTS???
#33 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 9:10 am
Godfather is right that I did not dispute his summary of what I said because there was nothing to dispute in his summary, and the reason for that is that he has merely described it as a racist and irrational position without explaining and making me understand why that is so.
Neither has he applied any of the global precedents on theocratic Islamic state to contradict any of what I said. The Islamic theocratic state is not PAS’s original invention : it is inspired from what is happening in large swathes of Middle East after Ayaatollah Khomeini’s Iranian revolution.
So if we are not using as reference what is happening there, how could a better understanding be forged of what would here if PAS could successfully implement its agenda here?
However this is not the immediate issue. Lets not be distracted by another red herring.
The immediate issue that impedes discussion of this Islamic state and other issues, is Godfather’s “consistent trade mark of attacking the messenger as a way of attacking the message or a posting that he finds unacceptable or untrue to him”.
Calling someone who happens to agree with another person on an issue a lap dog – and citing “empirical evidence” from past postings of such convergence of view – is one glaring example of this dishonest method of argument.
Now I may have to add another to the list : “Labelling”. He has labelled what I said are mere “postulations”. They are no more postulations than that which you say here, for example, that if PAS manages to overrule its coalition partners to implement Hudud, that the rakyat will be unable to vote them out the next time” in respect to which I have asked you how did you ever come to know that the same rules would be allowed to apply then, and whether PAS told you so.
However instead of responding issue by issue, you prefer to go on a tirade of “lap dog” etc .
If I were to descend to your line of argument and thinking, then judging from the empirical evidence of various postings in this thread I would have to call our monsterball, who agrees with everything you say, as also your “lap dog” – but do I compliment you or monsterball with such imitation? :)
#34 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 9:14 am
Correction on typo error : “that the rakyat will be able (not unable) to vote them out the next time”
#35 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 9:20 am
Counselor, every time you post something, we can hear Lee in the background barking “woof, woof”. I think in canine language, it means “yes, yes”.
#36 by OrangRojak on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 9:20 am
Onlooker Politics: “… the biggest threat to the secularism of Malaysia is … from some … who do not even know where to stand …”
It must be comforting to be able to make such a clear distinction between religion and political ideology. But I think you overestimate the threat from people so open minded as to allow all their thoughts to escape. Just because a person considers all possible meanings and options does not mean that they lie in the street racked by doubt, covered by yesterdays newspapers, hoping that someone will throw them a scrap to stave off starvation.
If LKS and his Forty Friends have something in common, it is that we all have access to the Internet and we know how to navigate it. At some point we must have put aside our doubts and acted out of expediency when we acquired education, families, friends and wealth. We will do it again whenever we vote. In between opportunities to determine our future prosperity, why not test our doubts? Criticism is a powerful tool for improvement and possibly what separates developed nations from those not developing quite so quickly.
Doubting the brands of secular politics in Malaysia is all we have. When all is said and done, there are very few choices available. Just as protest should be the right of the unrepresented minority in a democracy, so should the expression of doubt be the right of voter who knows he will cast his vote for the least evil.
Lee Wang Yen: “As it is clearly shown in my comments here …”
Maybe I struggle occasionally with modern English – I don’t always follow your point in your comments. I don’t think you’re saying anything I want to argue against, but clarity should really be left for your readers to decide. You’re absolutely right to suggest a third way, but your dinner companions are looking at a menu of two choices and wondering if you will order before the restaurant closes. I also occasionally find myself in KFC wishing for pizza. In your place, I would flip a coin. Not voting gives the eventual winner a F/A (For votes divided by against votes) share of your support. Non-voters voting on a coin flip reduce the tacit support for the winner (but not the outcome, obviously). I clearly recall friends, family and strangers even saying “vote New Labour, we must get the Tories out” in the 90s. They’re all quiet now: they got the same thing with a different name, acting with their mandate. If only there was an option on the ballot slip to record a ‘vote against’ – would that make principled voting in a Malaysian election easier?
#37 by monsterball on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 9:20 am
Becareful Jeffery…Don’t call me anybody’s lap dog and disturb a sleeping tiger.
You are certainly a greenhorn…trying to play…. agree to disagree in politics.
In life…OK…but in politics..for or against.
We are riding high.
Not need punks like you to be too smart.
#38 by monsterball on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 9:26 am
Oh my God…DAP and his forty thieves….third force stuff..says OrangRojak.
These three blind mice….should apply for James Bond new version….’Dr.No”
These are our present clowns..enjoy them.
#39 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 9:29 am
OrangRojak:
It is always a case of whether we see the bottle as half full or half empty. Those who see the bottle as half empty would want us to do nothing while they postulate the possibilities, then retreat into the shell where we came from. Flipping a coin is the last thing on their minds.
#40 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 9:43 am
Just like asking Lee Wang Yen voted or registered to vote as if that is either a condition for eligibility to comment here or a material in judging the validity of what one comments here: it is the same kind of irrelvancy by which you repeatedly engage in discourse whenever you run out of any substantial point to rebut that which you have a compulsive need to do so.
The whole point is asking him whether he has to registered to vote is to make an issue of motives or to disqualify him from saying that which displeases you along lines that if you don’t vote where is the commitment to make things better here to comment here?
Again this is “empirical proof” of your same intellectually bankrupt tactic of discrediting what people/messenger say by attacking and labelling persons/messenger as lap dog, or labelling comments as racist or irrational (without showing how) – don’t forget that the easiest thing in the world is just dismiss what some one said as racist, irrational or stupid without having tio show why or how – or questioning a person’s credential to comment asking whether he has registered to vote – anything irrelevant but the relevant issue of the factual truth or error, argumentative validity or error in what he said.
We respond to the validity of your comments, no one ask you or is it relevant to ask whether you are a Malaysian or some Syrian or Iranian.
#41 by monsterball on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 9:56 am
Hi young men…you can never see the bottle is half full…because you have no opportunities to see real free and democratic lifestyles of developed world….thus you think the bottle is actually full. Those citizens from the real full bottle..are ten times smarter than you…not that you are idiots…but UMNO made you one…with the support of MCA ..MIC and Gerakan.
We are going all out to fill the bottle for you!!.
You can thank me 20 years later…when I am dead and gone.
Such is life….by clowns like you…so ungrateful….so cunning and so ambiguous.
#42 by monsterball on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 10:18 am
Why am I such a fool talking to unregistered voters?
But my objective is partly to battle them..to let young Malaysians learn…especially productivity..to be recognized….not enough…..must be respected.
And if you are trying to be a first time business man…..sell the best…..be the best..not second best.
Be trusted by staffs..financial institutions and customers.
Want to make a million..not easy…….but not impossible too.
The best brains in the world are Americans,..Indians and Chinese.
Learn how they become multi millionaires.
Infact….learn how Malaysians become instant multi millionaires.
Identify the political ones..and ignore them.Those millionaires are a bunch of con men….cheaters and will sell their daughters to win favours from UMNO.
Just look at Bill Gates…and back home…Selangor Pewter…Genting…Yeo Hup Seng….Hong Leong..so many….all old companies..just to name afew.
Study how a person or company become rich and successful…and you will observed few distinct characteristics…that they know their trade…work day and right….down to earth ad humble realistic people.
Why waste your time…trying to poison others minds in politics?
It’s dealing with lives and people. It’s no laughing matter.
It’s first time…full bottle of water to you is possible.
Help and fill it too.
Are you all married with children??
#43 by monsterball on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 10:23 am
Not registered…no married….not yet succeed in life…talking Malaysians affairs???
Malaysia memang Boleh!!
#44 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 10:28 am
We are not saying that unregistered voters have no right to comment in this blog. Heck, we even allow Kasim Amat and Zak Hammaad to post their red herrings on this blog. All we are saying is that you should not be so sure of your position if you are just a kid with no understanding of political reality, or if you have nothing at stake to take a position either for or against the corrupt regime that is BN. Do not mask your inability (for whatever reasons) to vote with the excuse of “I am undecided because I am neither for BN nor for PR” and then in the next breath, condemn DAP for going to bed with PAS.
#45 by monsterball on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 10:31 am
hi …We old buggers …that dare to walk the talks and be prepared to die.
You dare or not?
You walk infront….prepare to .die first.
Show me you have guts.
But balls also not ripen to face fatherhood….so follow our backs.be protected…but dare to walk the talks la…for your unborn children.
If you are actually a possible father to be..please don’t throw your baby to the dustbin.
Give him/her to me. I will raise that baby.. ….until you are ready to take him/her back.
#46 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 10:35 am
This thread is about Ong Ta Kut making use of his crony Wong Chun Wai to mislead or truncate DAP’s stand against Hudud and telling DAP to boycott the KT by-election. Knowing the racist views of Jeffrey and Lee, we can infer that they are in support of Ong Ta Kut’s view, and that DAP should boycott the KT by-election because PAS is the greater devil compared to UMNO.
Don’t tell us you don’t support the BN or PR. Don’t tell us the baloney that you are espousing the truth. The truth is that you are giving BN all the ammunition that it needs to discredit the DAP. Yet, you still call yourselves DAP supporters.
#47 by monsterball on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 10:42 am
But 90% are young buggers walking…to protect we old bugger like me.
They are from Universities..from very rich families…from the poorest of the poor..ALL..walking… as Malaysians.
How nice..how wonderful.
Do you have the balls to walk with us…even if you are not registered voter ?
I guess you all got cold feet….real bloody cowards…so keep UMNO and BN…can live peacefully…second class citizen…never mind…hope for th best..to get to know….who you will know….and not what you know..to get rich..or a comfortable working life.
hi Malaysia is welknown to produce Tong Sampah graduates.
So you are lecturers….all three of you???
#48 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 10:44 am
“….this is “empirical proof” of your same intellectually bankrupt tactic of discrediting what people/messenger say by attacking and labelling persons/messenger as lap dog, or labelling comments as racist or irrational (without showing how) – don’t forget that the easiest thing in the world is just dismiss what some one said as racist, irrational or stupid without having tio show why or how…” Jeffrey
Any rational person reading your postulations on PAS and Islam will know what I mean by your being racist, irrational, and downright dangerous.
We all know that the extreme right of the DAP has an agenda to ensure that DAP withdraws from PR and gives up the various state governments if necessary. This position is well documented for the past 12 months, and it looks like the extreme right wing faction is trying to make a comeback.
#49 by Godfather on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 10:47 am
One of them is a loyar who starts with “the world is falling down, the world is falling down” and another is his lapdog who says “I agree, I agree”.
#50 by monsterball on Sunday, 28 December 2008 - 10:48 am
yes yes yes…Godfather….I must make it clear.
We need all Malaysians..that can talk sense..for or against…registered or not registered voters..never mind…talk as much as they like.
Like I said….to them…get use to my style and learn something.