Comments on: Bukit Antarabangsa landslide disaster – criminal negligence after Highland Towers tragedy 15 years ago

By: taiking

taiking — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 10:49:08 +0000

Acts of God. Acts of God. Acts of God. Yes. Why didnt I think of it before!!
Acts of God. That is what it is all about!
See it water problem.
Rain water.
The water came from the sky.
I mean … rain water could not have come pouring out suddenly from riverbeds and the oceans.
They come from …. yes the sky.
And who lives up in the sky?
… yes God.
But I wonder why God does a thing like that.

By: Thinking Two

Thinking Two — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 08:36:05 +0000

Action should be taken against the previous government as well as the developers concerned as someone blamed the developers gave pressure to the local authorities.

You guess who said that.

By: TheWrathOfGrapes

TheWrathOfGrapes — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 05:59:45 +0000

/// AhPek Says:
Yesterday at 13: 57.17
How come Malaysia’s hill slope buildings are coming down like ten pins with regularity and not elsewhere? ///

AhPek ah, so simple one you oso dunno. Different geology and topograhy. If you built on a granite hill or mountain, you don’t even need any foundation and it can last forever. But if you build on a hill without much rock base, then you will need strong foundations.

I think in Malaysia’s case, the likely cause is really developers and engineers cutting corner by not putting in the necessary foundation works – gentle gradients, ground anchors, weep holes, adequate pilings, proper drainage systems, etc. Heck, the whole of Marina Square and the new Marina Bay (where the Marina Bay Sands casino is being built), and the whole stretch of East Coast Parkway and all the high-rise buildings along Marine Parade Road in Singapore are all built on reclaim land. These are jelly-like land compared to the virgin lands in Antarabangsa/Ampang. The critical difference is that proper foundations were installed when buildings are put up on reclaimed land in Singapore.

By: katdog

katdog — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 14:59:23 +0000

I don’t think we need to go so far as an RCI into these matters.

Did anyone truly believe that things would change after the Highland Towers tragedy? Only the naive, the ignorant and the deluded.

Now that Selangor is under the control of PR i think MORE can be done than JUST calling for an RCI.

By: OrangRojak

OrangRojak — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 06:23:00 +0000

@Ah Pek, my apologies, I didn’t mean to imply any of those things were lacking in Malaysia. I might have been writing in British again, or perhaps the double-negative sounded better in my head than it reads on a screen.

Perhaps it’s not even British… a good friend of mine from a ‘posh’ family in the UK suggested before I came to Malaysia that I “could always teach Estuary English”. I’m not always understood in the UK either!

By: timothy

timothy — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 06:17:22 +0000

Indeed malaysian didnt learn from Highland Tower’s case. After that case, there appearred a profession called building surveyor. After the incident, the press brought up the need of Building Surveyors to be involvoed in all building built on hills, not neglecting also, on lands. But look at the present, this profession still not recognised, not even having its own Act. If you’re sick, u won’t go and find a a vet, if u need to build a house, u won’t go and find a fashion designer. Similarly, in this construction industry, building surveyors have roles to play. Unfortunately, ‘people’ neglected them. Who to blame?
Malaysia produces how many hundreds of building surveyors each year. How many involved in the public sector now? less than 10! how many private BS firms in Malaysia, less than 5! Where is the awareness? Life is precious, not something you can play about. When there’s such need for this profession, why cant it be ALIVE in Malaysia???

By: timothy

timothy — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 06:16:16 +0000

By: AhPek

AhPek — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 06:02:08 +0000

should be ‘I am sure……….mant people know the statue ‘Christ The Redeemer’

…………………………………city of Rio de Janeiro.’.

By: AhPek

AhPek — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 05:57:17 +0000

I am sure many people the statue ‘Christ The Redeemer’ with its outstretched hands blessing the city of Rio de Janeiro.A fantastic piece of engieering that it is named recently as the New 7 Wonders of the World.
A little bit of facts on this statue:
(a) It sits at the peak of Corcovado Mountain, 2,330 ft (710m).Most of our hill slope developments is not even half as high!

(b) The statue is 125 ft (38m)

(d) It’s the tallest statue of its kind in the world.

(e) Construction material—reinforced concrete and soapstone, stonestone being used at its outer layer due to its good resistance to weathering.

(f) Local enginner,Heitor da Silver Coste, designed the statue and Paul Landowski,a French monument sculptor of Polish origin,sculpted the statue.

(g) Took 9 years for completion.

The statue was struck by a lightning during a violent electric storm on Sunday,Feb10,2008.The storm caused havoc in Rio with fallen trees everywhere in several neighbourhoods but the statue was left unscathed because the material chosen for its outer layer is an insulator.
How come Malaysia’s hill slope buildings are coming down like ten pins with regularity and not elsewhere?
One Malaysia is not following the best engineering practices.Two there are people who can be persuaded to close one eye to approve the unapprovable.Third,the most important reason.At the end of whatever investigation here,nobody is found guilty—not enough evidence.

By: madmix

madmix — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 04:24:34 +0000

The consumer can act to prevent such tragedies from happening again and again; DO NOT BUY HOUSES on hill slopes or on foothills where the hills have been cut and built. Especially so DO NOT BUY APARTMENTS in multi storied buildings on hill slopes. If few people buy such properties, developers will not build.
Our hills are unlike those in Greece and Italy where there is no soil and the buildings are sitting on rock.
What about buildings already built? Is it fair to ask other rate payers to bear the cost of taking preventive measures? If my house leaks and gets attacked by termites, can I ask the town council to repair it for me?

By: AhPek

AhPek — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 04:11:06 +0000

OrangRojak,
I don’t think I’ll agree with you fully when you say Malaysia does not have competent engineers but however on second thought you could be right too.The competent ones have probably migrated getting real cheesed off by the ever sickening political situation they have to put up with.Equally damning is als that there are people who can be persuaded to close one eye to approve the unapprovable!

By: negarawan

negarawan — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 03:47:41 +0000

These landslide tragedies are good analogies of how UMNO is ruling this country. Malaysia has collapsed in terms of its economy, education system, racial and religious harmony, and international stature.

By: OrangRojak

OrangRojak — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 03:06:43 +0000

“is it not reasonably forseeable that landslides will occur over time”
Landslides are reasonably foreseeable, as is the probability that one will not occur.

Hillside and even cliff-face construction is not at all unreasonable. Soil surveys, certification, competent engineers and good quality materials all cost money. The reason Malaysians are dying in these tragedies is not because you don’t have soil survey companies, not because you have corrupt certification, not because you have unusually unpredictable hills, and not because you don’t have competent engineers. Malaysians die in these tragedies because it’s simply cheaper for developers to kill Malaysians than it is to do their jobs properly.

The reason hillslide collapse deaths are less common in modern societies has nothing to do with more highly skilled engineers or better quality materials. Harming another person carries unbearably heavy financial penalties in a modern society. It is almost impossible to avoid paying penalties in a modern society once applied, so members of modern societies simply try very hard to avoid harming others. Legislate all you like, but if you don’t guarantee loss of cash, these deaths will continue to happen.

By: Kathy

Kathy — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 02:46:03 +0000

These disasters are already in the making when local and government agencies approved developers plans for expansion and development in high risks areas years ago.

Like what the 80 years gentleman said in The Star paper yesterday, do you think that the politicians will do anything to correct the situation? If they have the conscience to do so, they would have stop all hill development projects years ago and not repeating the same story now.

Or to some, saying nothing at all.

By: jus legitimum

jus legitimum — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 02:41:38 +0000

Now a lot of us just hope that the largest component that makes up the Malaysian community will wake up from their slumber and be able too see clearly who have been responsible for the endless scandals ,failures,tragedies that have besieged the country for decades.It is time now to reverse this unfortunate trend that has caused the whole nation to degenerate in almost every field.

By: PSM

PSM — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 02:27:55 +0000

Another RCI? How many RCIs have we had in the past? Nothing was done after the results of the RCIs were published.
The PM & DPM are blaming Malaysians for forgetting & “never learning”?! What a joke!
Don’t forget there was also another Express Bus accident that has claimed another 10 lives!!!!! Yet another case of Malaysians forgetting?!
As long as the Corrupted BN Govt is in power, we will continue too see “disasters” like this!!!!!

By: HJ Angus

HJ Angus — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 01:59:37 +0000

It is a blessing that PR government is in charge and perhaps now we will be able to find out the WHY/HOW some doubtful projects were approved.

By: HJ Angus

HJ Angus — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 01:56:54 +0000

I have a photo of how some areas in the PEAK area of HK look like. Here one can also observe hill-slopes that have markings so that maintenance records can be checked.
But then that is a developed territory.
http://malaysiawatch4.blogspot.com/2008/12/malaysiakini-and-alarming-news-after.html

By: Damocles

Damocles — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 01:50:05 +0000

“Government has a role to play here. Perhaps a general ban on hillside development ?” – Undergrad2

Undergrad2, don’t underestimate the power of the developers’ lobby. And the fact that this is Malaysia where the not so possible can become very possible under the right circumstances!
The fact that the local councils have iron-clad laws to protect themselves from any blame from mishaps from their action also helps to perpetuate the situation.
Removing such laws will definitely reduce such mishaps.
Do you think that the UMNO/BN government will do it?

By: Damocles

Damocles — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 01:40:32 +0000

After so much death and destruction from such development, it seems that the developers and those who approved such projects still don’t seem to realise that our hills are made mainly of mud.
There may be some big boulders embeded in the soil but basically it’s just mud.
It doesn’t take rocket science to know that no amount of safety measures will help to stop landslides under such circumstances. Especially when the hill is both steep and high.
Whatever action taken will prove to be puny compared to the tonnes of mud pushing against the barrier.
There is only one way to stop such tragedies and that is to ban all such developments including those that have been approved and pending development.
It’s far better than to let these projects go on and result in death, destruction and regrets.