By Farish A. Noor
Since I became an activist at the age of nineteen, I have spent more than two decades of my life defending Muslims and the image of Islam. During my twenty-two years of living in Europe, I must have attended hundreds of conferences, seminars, public debates and lectures where I tried my best to dissuade people from the negative image of Islam that is so prevalent in the international media of late.
But there were moments when it seemed as if this was an uphill struggle where every battle won was soon followed by a string of defeats, thanks to the actions of Muslims who took it upon themselves to ‘defend Islam’ on their own parochial and short-sighted terms; and whose actions and words did untold damage to the image of Muslims. I recall one particularly bitter episode when I was asked to speak about the universalism of Islam – that took place just when the Taliban were occupied with the task of blowing up the Buddha statues of Bamiyan in Afghanistan. It seemed pointless to continue then, and despair has been my lot for the past few years.
Now I find myself again in such a situation, after it was announced that the Fatwa Council of Malaysia has just issued a fatwa declaring that the practice of Yoga is haram and thus forbidden to Muslims. Overnight I was bombarded by emails and sms-es from my Islamist friends in Indonesia where I teach at two Islamic universities, who asked: “What is wrong with you Malaysian Muslims, and haven’t you got anything better to do?” How do I reply to such a question when I am forced to ask it myself?
That the Malaysian Fatwa Council could even contemplate issuing a fatwa on Yoga of all things beggars belief. It leaves many Muslims and non-Muslims alike stunned and speechless for it would suggest that the state of normative religiosity in Malaysia has sunk to such a shallow and superficial level that only the most mundane issues are deemed worthy enough to gain the attention of the country’s ‘defenders of the faith’.
There are three issues that I would like to raise at this point, and they are the following:
Firstly it should be noted that for millions of people around the world who may be Hindus or non-Hindus, Yoga is seen primarily as a form of exercise and little else. In Europe where Yoga has been popular since the 1960s, millions of Europeans have been practicing Yoga in their spare time as a hobby or part of their health regimes, with scant attention to its religious and spiritual connotations. If it were indeed the case that Yoga forms an intrinsic part of Hindu belief and that it can be used as a means to convert non-Hindus to Hinduism, then there ought to be millions of Hindus all over Western Europe by today! So where on earth are these closet European Hindus then? Has anyone considered this commonsensical point with any degree of reflection or honesty? If Yoga is seen as merely a regime of exercise, then how on earth does sitting cross-legged miraculously transform me into a Hindu? It would be akin to suggesting that continual consumption of curry would eventually make me an Indian; and I hope we can all see how patently ridiculous that is.
Secondly, let us be clear about what thing: Yoga practices have been part of Southeast Asian culture for more than four thousand years and they are as much a part of Asian society as many of the other cultural legacies left by the period of ancient Indianisation. Another practice that has become normalised and localised over the past four millennia is the practice of massage, which is hugely popular in predominantly-Muslim Malaysia and Indonesia as it is in Thailand, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. Look at the relief carvings on the temples of Prambanan and Borobudur and it will be seen that massage was prevalent during the Hindu-Buddhist period and the detailed carvings show that what Malay-Muslims call ‘urut’ or ‘picit’ (pressure-point massage) was practiced as far back as the Sanjaya and Sailendra dynasties. Today picit and urut are still popular among Malaysian and Indonesian Muslims, and is practiced by Muslims. Has this ancient form of therapy transformed us into Hindus too? Certainly not, so why the fuss over Yoga?
Thirdly, the declaration that Yoga is haram has robbed Malaysia and Malaysians of yet another neutral civic space where Malaysians of all walks of life can meet and interact as Malaysians and friends. As someone who has been practicing Yoga since the age of nineteen, I can say for certain that many of the Yoga classes I have attended were plural, cosmopolitan gatherings where Malaysians of all ethnic and cultural backgrounds can meet and form lasting friendships and acquaintances. To declare this practice haram for Muslims effectively robs us of another space where we can meet other people, constraining our personal freedoms and limiting the choices in our lives.
Muslims in Malaysia are more closely guarded and policed than ever before, with more and more laws, rules and restrictions on how we dress, eat, speak, interact and even marry and form relationships with. After this fatwa on Yoga, what will be next? A fatwa on karate, kung-fu, pilates, Qi Jong?
At the root of the matter is the fact that the Malaysian Fatwa Council has acted unilaterally once again and unilaterally issued a blanket prohibition in the name of Islam and all Muslims. Well, I did not vote or elect any of the members of this council; and neither did any other Muslims in the country. Here lies the real problematic of power behind such appointed bodies that have been given so much power and authority over our lives. Lest it be forgotten, the only body that is allowed to legislate on our behalf as Malaysian citizens is the Parliament, that was elected by the citizenry themselves. Yet over the past three decades of an Islamisation process that has gone out of control, more and more non-elected and non-democratic bodies have been created that wield enormous power over the lives of Malaysians, particularly Muslims.
What has aroused the angry reaction of Malaysian Muslims in the case of this fatwa is the fact that it was issued unilaterally without any consultation with society. And this reflects the extent to which the Fatwa council is in fact a body that is not answerable to the Malaysian public. More so than a question of theology or theocratic details and fine-print, the workings of the Fatwa Council in Malaysia has demonstrated the workings of a state that has abdicated its responsibility to lead the way towards a modern, progressive Islam that is relevant to the plural and multicultural world we live in today. Yet ironically all this is happening under the watch of Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi, who made it his project to promote an ‘Islam Hadari’ that is modern and tolerant. How, pray tell, can there be a tolerant, moderate and modern Islam when books are banned on a monthly basis and Muslims are not even allowed to exercise and meditate in peace? And once again, it is the image of Islam that has suffered the most.

#1 by AhPek on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 3:59 pm
Imranj78,
Why is it so difficult to understand that I don’t have to know how yoga or tomboyism relate to Muslim life as long as it has no impact on the life of others? And how did I offend Islam if you have to compare what I have said earlier to what was published in the Danish newspaper.You have in fact offended quite a few here by telling others to stop poking their noses in matters they do not know of.I am stating that as long as any indicts that could be extended to non muslim life I will come forward to have my 2 sen worth heard.YOU ARE IN FACT OFFENDING PEOPLE HERE!!Don’t try to impose your conditions,it simply doesn’t work.As far as religion is concerned most of us do respect religion per se.It does not necessary extend unconditionally to interpreters of respective religion for they are human and oftentimes they make a mockery of things in the interpretation of their religion.
Pertaining to the Danish paper do you not felt aghast at the response by Muslims of some countries.It is shocking to say the least.What about you?I suppose you can use that insensitivity as an excuse for such rampage!! Mind you I don’t condone the insensitivity but at the same time there is no need for such response.
#2 by AhPek on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 4:01 pm
indicts shoud read edicts
#3 by BoycottLocalPapers on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 4:02 pm
Defending Islam is a lost cause. Just read about the Muslim terrorists attack on Mumbai the other day. Should international media be blamed for reporting the fact that these terrorists were Muslims?
Educated men like Farish Noor should not be wasting their time trying to whitewash Islam in Europe. Farish should be educating Muslims in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Southern Thailand, Southern Philippines, and Malaysia instead of blaming international media.
#4 by no on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 4:11 pm
Hallo, guys.
Please pity the Muslim lah, because they have no freedom to choose any religions except Islam.
I come across some reading about the Islam and do not know true or not.
Their teaching any traitors the sentenced is death. Muslim can kill others unloyalty muslim islam followers like a game points be rewarded by gods.
They can tell lie to those people not muslim for benefits and is no sin.
They have their own problems to solve.
We only need to defence here they don’t force non-muslim into this and rob the non-muslim freedom and rights in Malaysia that’s all.
Am I right? guys.
#5 by OrangRojak on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 4:45 pm
“Am I right?”
As Wolfgang Pauli said, you are “not even wrong”.
I love the easy questions. Any more?
#6 by Mus_JB on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 5:58 pm
Farouq,
Well the fatwa’s is a guideline for Muslim. What it means is that if you go against it then it is considered as a sin in the religiion.
If you decide to against it, it is up to you. You can decide freely to go to hell or to heaven. Nobody is forcing you on anything or setting any rules to you. Like I said, it is a guideline for Muslim.
#7 by Mus_JB on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 6:31 pm
About the Mumbai attack.
Just would like to add, the Tamil Tigers have also done a lot of bombing here and there. One of the Gandhi’s is dead.
Who do they blame, The Tamil Tigers.
The American had also bomb here and there, in Hiroshima Nagasaki where hundred of thousand of civilian casualties.
Who do they blame, The American and the Japanese.
The Jews have also bombed the palestinian. This is becoming a daily affairs. The casualties is 1000 fold then the one in Mumbai.
Who do they blame, the Palestinian and the Israel.
Some terorrist bomb Mumbai,
Who do they blame, well the Muslims.
By the way, do anyone really expect the people from Palestine and kashmir is going to sit still for what is happening them for so many years…..
Does Islam ask its followers to do terrorist act. Anyone can ask the Muslim Scholars and they will answer a straight no. Islamic Religion is very specific and It specifically prohibit the casualty of civilians even at war.
Secondly, like the christian religion, committing suicide is also prohibited therefore suicide bombing is not allowed
However, the condition in the Palestine and the middle east is horrendous. Dr.M have once mentioned that when you have cornered a group of people, they will resort to extreme acts.
#8 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 6:41 pm
Is being ‘cornered’ -whatever that means- the sole explanation for suicide bombing? Is there another explanation like for eg brainwashing and indoctrination with promises of rewards from martyrdom?
#9 by no on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 6:44 pm
The problem lied here is
are you using the name of god for the action?
That is what the diffenrence.
#10 by Mus_JB on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 6:47 pm
Frank Yapp,
There is no double standard.
Actually there are Fatwa’s on smoking. The majority of cleric says that it is allowable but not encouraged in Islam due to the side effect.
Some of the renown cleric says that it is prohibited in Islam. But you have to understand what is the meaning of prohibited in Islam (Haram). There is a religious and spiritual dimension. It means that we you are doing it, it is a sin. So if the cleric says that it is haram (based on the islamic teaching) then everytime someone smoke, he is committing a sin.
About the bomoh, it is very strongly prohibited in Islam. No need for Fatwa’s, it is available in Muslim textbook. If a muslim believe in Bomoh, he is committing one the serious sin in Islam.
If you see the Muslim go to the Bomoh, you can tell them it is prohibited in Islam. They will not argue with you. (Perhaps they will say you should mind your business but certainly will not argue in the perspective of Islam)
#11 by AhPek on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 7:04 pm
Jeffrey,
There is this thing you haven’t mastered the art of confusing to put one off track.You are only a QC and what do you know of such art?
#12 by Mus_JB on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 7:07 pm
Jeffery,
Being cornered is obviously the main reason for terrorism. One does not end one’s life unless it is due to very strong reason.
I do think I should explain what being cornered means. You can read about it in the internet about the affected people.
Being brainwash, yes. This is what happen in Bali. They were later executed. However, the reason do they do what they have done do very much correlate with incidents in the Middle east.
About Martyr, Osama Bin Laden says that they will promised heaven. But, Osama himself is not a cleric. The cleric says that as they have killed innocent civilians, based on the textbook on Islamic teaching, they will go to hell.
Hope this answer your question.
#13 by no on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 7:26 pm
The problem lied is:
Do you treat those non-muslim is the enemy of Muslim or innocent?
That is what the difference?
#14 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 7:48 pm
“Osama himself is not a cleric…the cleric says that as they have killed innocent civilians, based on the textbook on Islamic teaching, they will go to hell….” – Mus_JB
But there are clerics and there are clerics. Which raises question whether one should listen to them just because of their authority or claim as a cleric.
Abu Bakar Bashir is an Islamic cleric, widely identified as the head of Jemaah Islamiyah, spiritual leader of Al Qaeda’s Southeast Asia affiliate, he has expressed unabashed admiration for Osama bin Laden, and was prosecuted under charges of plotting terrorism in Indonesia.
Another admirer of Osama – an Isslamic cleric Abdul Benbrika, 48 – was charged and convicted in Melbourne (2005) for planning a bomb attack on an Australian Football League (AFL) grand final.
Benbrika had praised al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden as a “great man” and told his followers that killing women and children was permissible.
#15 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 8:39 pm
AhPek, I am no QC and you’re right I “haven’t mastered the art of confusing to put one off track” but as a matter of interest who exactly has been confused and put off track, and how that is so in the preceding exchange?
#16 by rubenz on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 8:45 pm
In my opinion, the National Fatwa Council should also urgently consider the following topics to issue fatwas (if found suitable in Islam):
1. Is corruption, bribery, nepotism, money politics and abuse of power haram?
2. Is terrorism haram?
3. Is the unfair treatment of people of different races, religions and genders haram?
4. Is detention without trial (and therefore the curtailing of freedom) of peacefully demonstrating people (also in writing and speech) haram?
As a non-muslim, the above are also my questions to muslim experts concerning Islam.
#17 by Mus_JB on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 9:04 pm
Cleric is an English word. This word is used in christian religion. For the sake of simplicity, this word is also used to define somebody in Islam. There is bound to be some confusion when there is a direct translation.
In Islam, the highest authority in a state is called the Mufti. He is elected as he is the most proficient in Islam. He is the one who make fatwa’s, this is the case in Malaysia.
Abu Bakar Bashir is not a Mufti so as this chap Benbrika. Both of them do not make a fatwa.
Benbrika have to be a derange mad man to say what he said. There is a specific text in Islamic Teaching which says that no harm should ever be fall into woman and children in war.
I do not think Benrika is someone who is proficient in Islam at all. Just because he wears a cap and have a beard and the australian says that he is a cleric, means that he is a cleric.
The Mufti of Egypt (Egypt is adopting Shafie Sect similar with Malaysia) says that (quote) “the use of violence to spread Islam is prohibited and extremists have not been educated in genuine centers of Islamic learning, “Terrorists are criminals, not Muslim activists.”
Most of the Mufti from Malaysia studied in Egypt (University Al-Azhar- one of the oldest University in the world) The comment by the Mufti of Egypt carries a lot of weight by Muslims.
#18 by UzMiNoOnist on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 9:12 pm
I have not stopped laughing at those idxxts since I read about it on RTM.
#19 by Mus_JB on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 9:17 pm
Ah Pek,
Your comment,
Exactly you have got a bull’s eye but there are some here who thinks that they have got a right to ask non muslims not to poke their noses into muslim matters without proper understanding.
My comment,
May I have your permission to poke on Chinese matter without understanding? Maybe commenting about Chinese tradition. I know lots of them.
I lived among the chinese community in Johor. But seriously, I do not think I would like to be nozy on their matters. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that this will offend them.
We can offend each other and behave like idiots or behave like civilized people.
#20 by UzMiNoOnist on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 9:19 pm
Opps, heard about it …
#21 by no on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 9:24 pm
I like go straight to the point.
Any violence or hatre lead to destruction should not consider related to god.
Anyone disagreed?
#22 by monsterball on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 9:32 pm
What makes a smart man like cintanegera become so stupid?
The answer is having an extremely smart teacher like Mahathir…making sure he stays contented and stupid…promising false hopes and encouraging fanatic religious teachers..to promise a place in paradise…just follow them….no need to ask why..simply follow the instructions..and paradise is his.
End results…a bunch of brainless herds of humans..simply believe with not faculties to question …why like this or that.
The evils that Mahathir did to his own race…by playing dirty politics..is still not known by his own race…that it hurts them most…..in the end.
Millions have awakened…but cintanegera…cinta his race and party more than anything else.
He is being programmed to be an idiot and a hypocrite….by Mahathir….for 22 years..and on going by UMNO leaders…right now….because….that is the only way..they won elections after elections….just put an “X”…no need to think at all..
#23 by de_Enigma on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 9:57 pm
Dear Imranj78,
It really intrigues me when you always say that people need to be an expert in xxx field to comment in xxx field. We are here all normal citizens who concerns about the issues happening which involves our lives. What is so wrong with giving personal opinions and come up with our statements? If you think what we thought are wrong, feel free to correct us by educating us on what is right – of course in your own opinion since you are no expert either.
If everyone needs to be an expert before he can comment anything, there won’t be any discussion in the first place.
I have a feeling you put too much trust in your ‘experts’. Even a good pilot might crash a plane someday. After all, we are only humans.
#24 by ryan123 on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 10:43 pm
I do not see that actions on antagonizing people as “hostile outsiders while are being busybody” can help the advancement of a society. When the majority is expressing their opposing view, you have chosen to declare to isolating yourself.
When scholars like Farish A. Noor holding opinions from alternative, he is branded by some to be “skewed” from the real teaching, and thus his opinions is rather subjective.
When RPK talked about Malays and Islam he is, again, branded as traitors by the same bunch of people.
Whey are they not being brave and reasonable enough to take the first step in thinking from alternative perspectives? Typical Mahathir’s mentality in antagonizing the westerners as his fright tactics. Pathetic~
#25 by ryan123 on Saturday, 29 November 2008 - 10:45 pm
Forget about cintanegara, if he can write something with useful contents like Imranj and Mus_JB, then only he worths being bothered.
#26 by damianmp on Sunday, 30 November 2008 - 6:11 am
It’s a real tragedy that Fatwa is doing the most insensible things!! Its a blessing anyway because it is digging its own grave! The education Ministry has a program called RIMUP ( Rancangan Integrasi Kaum) where we learn from other cultures as a mean to reduce racial conflict but what the FATWA is doing is just the OPPOSITE! I am not surprise they will issue another FATWA Tarian Singa, SUMAZAU and others…lets wait and see!
#27 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 30 November 2008 - 8:36 am
“The comment by the Mufti of Egypt carries a lot of weight by Muslims” – Mus_JB
Agree that Grand Mufti of Egypt Sheikh Ali Goma’a, succeeding Ahmad El-Tayeb in late September 2003, is widely respected jurist in the Sunni Muslim world. And he made comments against Yoga!
But is his opinion followed all the way or selectively? He has issued a fatwa asserting that men and women enjoy equal political rights in Islam, including the right to become president of a modern state : does this mean that polygamy is not that right making a woman less equal? He also stated that Islam does not call for and has never known a theocratic state and that there is no contradiction between Islam and liberal democracy. Does this mean that our communal based politics and NEP not consistent with liberal democracy? In 2007 he “unequivocally told the Washington Post that the death penalty for apostasy simply no longer applies. Does that mean Lina Joy could legally be an apostate?
Maybe Mus_JB can enlighten.
#28 by OrangRojak on Sunday, 30 November 2008 - 11:09 am
Check your comments. The end of free speech is coming:
http://www.humanrights-geneva.info/UN-Bans-Defamation-of-Religion-in,3753
The UN appears to have completed its journey to irrelevance.
#29 by AhPek on Sunday, 30 November 2008 - 11:35 am
Mus_JB,
We are all in fact talking about fair play at the end of the day,how one community or religion must not dominate or try to exert domination over others.You can of course bring out if you like examples of how the Chinese try to marginalise the Malays or Orang Asli or any other people, i will not be offended if in fact it is the case.Do bring it up by all means,I’ll never accuse you of poking your nose.At most I’ll try to prove that you are in fact mistaken if your assertion is wrong.
On the flip side just compare your argument with that of Jeffrey’s.Jeffrey is trying to sell you people about fair play,and you are trying to ward off by trying to confuse hoping to put him off track by bringing examples totally irrelevant to the argument.
#30 by imranj78 on Sunday, 30 November 2008 - 11:57 am
de_Enigma,
I am not necessarily saying that a person needs to be an expert to comment on a certain item. But there has to be acknowledgment that the national fatwa council are experts in the field and the many of us here (including myself) are not. This does not mean that they are faultless but how can a person blatantly go against the word of experts when the person himself/herself don’t understand the issues? Yes you can comment, you can disagree but you must understand and accept that the decision was made with underlying valid reasons and justification based on deliberations, sunnahs, the al-Quran etc.
You have to understand that in Islam, only a person who is wholesome in knowledge about Islam should make any edict or give directions on the religion (even I don’t prescribe to be that level). In my view this is for several purposes – firstly to avoid confusion in interpretation of the religion and secondly to ensure that there is a systematic, formal of discussing such matters (through a proper council).
Ah Pek,
I still don’t see your point of how this fatwa will invade on the live of non-Muslims. Care to share how?
#31 by AhPek on Sunday, 30 November 2008 - 12:16 pm
Further,in my comment “Exactly you have got a bull’s ………………some who thinks they have got to ask non muslims not to poke their noses into muslim matters without proper understanding.”,Mus_JB you have completely failed to take note of the most important word ‘some’, which in fact if you have read all the comments throughout will not fail to identify the person.And we are all discussing here on a matter raised by Farish Noor “Fatwa against yoga?How would this reflect on Muslims.”. Most of us agree with Farish and even,according to Farish the Indonesians are wondering if Malaysian Muslims got nothing better to do?Is Yoga a muslim matter? Does everybody here not know what yoga is?
My quote here is a sarcasm which you do not even see,and you come up with another twist of your own by asking me permission to poke your nose on Chinese affairs which I have given you my reply as found above.If you tell me some Chinese have the dirty habit of spitting,I will completely agree with you.If you tell me some have got the dirty habit of digging their noses in public,I’ll will also agree with you.And if you tell me Mao Tze Tung has committed some of the worst heinous crime,I’ll will also completely agree with you.I DO NOT FREE OFFENDED!
#32 by AhPek on Sunday, 30 November 2008 - 1:12 pm
FREE should read FEEL
#33 by OrangRojak on Sunday, 30 November 2008 - 1:39 pm
“your point of how this fatwa will invade on the live of non-Muslims”
This isn’t AhPek’s point, it’s Farish’s 3rd point, re-read his article. This fatwa further removes Muslims from the lives of non-Muslims. It is an invasion by someone we don’t know, separating us from someone we do. We are justifiably aggrieved.
#34 by AhPek on Sunday, 30 November 2008 - 2:00 pm
Islam is a religion (mind you I am an agnostic) worthy of respect much like Christianity,Hinduism,Buddhism and others for all of them propagate universal good human values but oftentimes the interpreters of religions make a mockery of things causing hatreds, riots and even wars.
Right tell me why the interpreter of the Fatwa Council should issue a fatwa stating it as haram banning Muslims from taking part in it.Don’t you think yoga practitioners who are non muslims not feel offended for terming it haram (which means illegal much in the same way one will term drugs illegal or prostitution illegal).Ask Samy Velu, I am sure he feels offended for if he had not he wouldn’t have said he would be going to see the PM on this.Why wouldn’t it be phrased in such a way that the reason for issueing fatwa on yoga for muslims is that Muslims should not participate in an exercise that has elements of Hinduism in it.THAT would not offend any non Muslim.Then again there are other instances eg the use of the word Allah in the bible of the Christians.Why do they want to ban the use of that word in their bible whereas it is not done in Indonesia for instance or in other parts of the world.Besides they have used that for some time already.
I have said what I have to say.Now what about you, I’ve asked you how you can compare what I’ll said with what is published by the Danish newspaper.I’ve also mentioned about the insensitivity of the paper but at the same time said that there is no need for the ensuring rampage by some other muslim countries as a response to show anger.I have also asked your response to this?Likewise I’ll ask of you the same as you ask of me “CARE TO SHARE WITH US.”.
#35 by frankyapp on Sunday, 30 November 2008 - 2:41 pm
Now will someone please tell why is it that the Islamic god or allah who the muslim claimed is the creator of human being and all other live creatures on earth is practising discrimation ? Surely he created,he should loved.Otherwise,why created a bad one and later destroy it. See I understand that it’s okay for muslim to practise holy war to kill non-muslim liked what Osman bin laden is doing.Surely as a fatherly god.,you would not be bias towards some of your children . Liked Jesus said surely when your son ask for bread ,you will not give him a snake. Moreover,these islamic cleric or muftis,are they really following the foot steps of allah when they made desision ? Sometime these guys behaved liked allah and forced their fellow muslim to swallow what ever it takes.Why is it that they never or seldom qoute the exact chapters and verses from the Koran regarding such matter which should be declared as haram ?.This is indeed a mystery,right ?.
#36 by UzMiNoOnist on Sunday, 30 November 2008 - 8:05 pm
Mus_JB,
“By the way, do anyone really expect the people from Palestine and kashmir is going to sit still for what is happening them for so many years…..”
Can I start killing when I am have being deprived as a first class citizen in Malaysia. No. You don’t start killing when someone don’t agree with you ideologically. Palestinians are the pawns thrown in by their Arab brothers due to territorial (and political) wars so that it seemed to be a religious struggle. So do not get yourself confused for political struggle and religious struggle.
Mumbai murder is purely done by lost souls who are confused between political struggles and religious struggles. There are nuts and not fit to be called human. Their acts are barbaric and there should be no justification by their Muslim brothers just because they shouted “Jihad” or claimed their struggle is a “Holy War”.
So, it is good for human kind that you try not to justify Mumbai terrorist act because of Khasmir or Palestine issues.
#37 by shamshul anuar on Sunday, 30 November 2008 - 11:19 pm
DearUzminoonist,
I refer to your response to Mus_JB.
The issue Arab Israel has nothing to do with religion. It is a territorial issue.
Jews were once a hated race in Europe. THey are blamed for death of Jesus Christ. He was said to be betrayed by a Jew in Christian tradition. As such, it was considered normal affair for Christian rulers for almost 2000 tears to conduct annual pogrom to annihilate Jews.
Many Jews escaped to Muslim ruled states such as the territories ruled by Ottoman empire. Way back in 1897, Jews in meeting with Sultan Of Ottoman Empire, offered to buy a territory now known as Israel. The Sultan did not agree to the offer but still allow them to stay in the empire.
Ottoman Empire was dissoilved several years after World War 1. The territory became British Mandate. In World War 11, Hitler killed many Jews. After the war, feeling guilty for tolerating the massacre, Britain and USA agreed to one nation for the Jews. It was spring cleaning time. Get rid of unwanted race. Create a nation for them.
Unfortunately, it was created in middle of Arab state. In the process hundred of thousands of Arabs lost their homeland due to cruelty of Jewish militant, Haganah. Arabs , for centuries under Ottoman empire, lost a natural protector upon the collapse on Otoman Empire.
#38 by ryan123 on Monday, 1 December 2008 - 5:32 am
they are experts? are they experts who are confined within themselves, or experts who stay connected to the world, as well as the top Islamic institutions?
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking+News/Singapore/Story/STIStory_300202.html
Dear imranj78 who ask us to believe the opinions of experts? What is the CREDENTIALS AND CREDIBILITY of this bunch of self-isolating people. Rea above link, the experts from fatwa council said that Yoga is prohibited among Muslims in Singapore? Experts, I would say no. They are either IGNORANT or blatantly trying to deceive the Malaysian Muslim.
You like to discuss on facts, please back up your statement that they are the real experts then. The position of one should be be used to reflect the quality of that person. As simple as that.
Objective minds will lead you to a new horizon.
#39 by ryan123 on Monday, 1 December 2008 - 5:34 am
Persistent brainwashing by BN and the associated bodies do work, even to adults…..now I see why.
#40 by TheWrathOfGrapes on Monday, 1 December 2008 - 8:38 am
/// imranj78 Says:
November 29th, 2008 (2 days ago) at 15: 27.12
First and foremost, you must first understand the purpose of fatwas in the first place. Fatwas are only issued for items/practices that are considered `grey’ i.e. on the surface it might not be clear whether they are inline or not with the Islamic religion. ///
Tell that to Salman Rushdie, author of “The Satanic Verses” who received the death fatwa. Grey indeed….
#41 by AhPek on Monday, 1 December 2008 - 9:22 am
But then again,TheWrathOfGrapes,what do you know?You mustn’t poke your nose into scholarly Muslim matters for which you do not know.You have to be scholarly in those matters before you can judge whether that death sentence is justifiable or not.
And because of the ‘scholarly’ pronouncement,the two Buddhists statues have to be blown to smithereens just like Altantuya!
#42 by malaysia-united on Monday, 1 December 2008 - 10:11 am
Is there any God in this world?
Religions has cause more trouble than benefits to the world (terrorist attack in Mumbai), agree?
Allah previously known as Al-Ilah, the moon god (as what you can see on the roof of Islam buildings), agree?
Black stone was once a statue of God Vegina (women god), agree?