Comments on: Are Nuris “flying coffins”?

By: undergrad2

undergrad2 — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 02:33:00 +0000

“DPM and former Defence Minister said, “we cannot forget the safety of our armed forces personnel and other Nuri passengers…”

There is no mention of the number of innocent lives that would be lost on the ground and property damage done should these helicopters crash due to whatever reason. This is deplorable!

By: HJ Angus

HJ Angus — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 00:48:31 +0000

Did anyone REALLY expect a different outcome from the PAC meetings?
Based on the NURI experience, the RM64mil question is how long do you think before the EUROCOPTERS start falling from the skies?
With more gizmos that require a high standard of maintenance, the pilots will probably be less ready to deal with emergencies.

http://malaysiawatch4.blogspot.com/2008/11/malaysiakini-results-from-pacdid-you.html

By: undergrad2

undergrad2 — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:40:35 +0000

“This email from a former Nuri pilot claimed that 85 % of the RMAF Nuri crashes were due to human error, 10 % enemy aggression and another 5 % only maybe technical.”

Nuris are not flying coffins but pilots are dead men walking. Perhaps it is time to go shopping for mercenary pilots.

By: chengho

chengho — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:13:02 +0000

Now everyone is an expert on helicopter and defence hardware . a matter of strategy you don’t discuss your defence secret in the open BUT then again we have a moron Abuseman who cannot give a simple straight answer . the deputy defence minister should do his home work before coming to Parliment he looked quite sleepy when answering the Q. He should take MC and ask Nazri to answer the Q.

By: hadi

hadi — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 16:39:15 +0000

YB Kit, the PAC chairman simply brushed aside your suggestion. What were the two Pakatan reps doing during the inquiry. Overwhelmed by the “after thought” explanation given by the team from Ministry of Defense.
Can the people demand the PAC to make public on report of the outcome of the investigation for public scrutiny.
Most of the crash investigation conducted by the RMAF lacked professionalism. How did the RMAF conduct technical investigation when the crashed helicopter remain in the jungle. A case in point, the Nuri crashed at Genting Sempah, the whole piece of the helicopter was not salvage and remained on the location of the crash site. And yet when the report was released, aircrew were blame, which I think is unfair .
This is a typical below par leadership running the organization and I fully agree with you YB Kit and they need to be kicked out.
I find it bewildered when the PAC chairman said everything is according to procedure despite the physical evaluation was not carried out which is called for in the tender document, something fishy here. What ever reason given by the defensive team from RMAF and defense ministry reps are dubious and all were “after thoughts” plan for cover up.
In short, the members of PAC are incompetent and they need to do more homework.

By: monsterball

monsterball — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 10:16:36 +0000

Yes….those Nuris are flying coffins.
But you see….UMNO is focusing on big kill..for big commission…they totally ignore those Nuris…which needs few millions..to replace all of them.
They just cancel …. multi billion Copter deal….and now..feel lost…what to do with Nuris…afraid Malaysians will make big…..hue and cry…loosing more votes.
Malaysians are no fools.
If they replace those with safe and reliable new ones…at the real market price…who will dare to talk nonsense….when government is sincerely…trying to save lives.
How can you expect crooks to think sincerely and logically.
Everything they do ….must have huge big commission.
Saving lives….is Greek to them.

By: human1

human1 — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 10:04:43 +0000

Lim Kit Siang has raised a valid possibility to have the Nuri upgraded and the life extended. This requires reassessment of the Nuri crash cause in the past, before ascertaining the need for the state-of-the-art Eurocopter EC725 Cougar purchase. In theory, this logic is politically correct. In reality, this is “academic”.

Absolutely no way the middlemen are going to forego the slightest chance to engage and urge the defence ministry to seal the defence deal, once the financial state of the federal government is in the black again. The business is too lucrative to give up. It is like asking the these middlemen to shoot themselves in the foot.

Check out the past and deferred shopping list youself,

Sukhoi Su-30 MKM fighter jets
Quantity: 18
Made from: Russia
Deal worth: USD 900 million
Free gift: Russia bore the cost of training two Malaysians for space travel, sent one to the International Space Station (ISS)
Utilization review: Once a while peform low altitude flying near MY-SG border, to show off and retaliate
One piece: 900/18 ~ USD 50 million

Scorpene submarines
Quantity: 2 new Scorpene and 1 secondhand Agosta
Made from: France and Spain joint venture
Deal worth: EURO 1 billion
Utilization review: Stroll along the straits of Melacca and it sure doesn’t scare those worthless pirates and smugglers
One piece: 1 bil / 2 ~ EURO 500 million (excluding the Agosta junk)

Eurocopter EC725 Cougar
Quantity: 12
Made from: France, Eurocopter a wholly-owned subsidiary of EADS, Netherland
Deal worth: RM 1.604 billion (academic)
Utilization review: Transport troops, search & rescue, and combat if things are very very very critical
One piece: 1.604 bil / 12 ~ RM 135 million

In layman’s term, that makes Scorpene the Lamborghini, Sukhoi the Honda Accord 2.4 and EC725 the Honda Accord 2.0.

The government is well aware that majority Malaysians have always developed the “don’t-ask-questions” mentality. Thus the government has been happily implementing the “just-leave-everything-to-me” policy.

There was no fuss over Sukhoi and Scorpene before. This time no wonder Najib said, “the oppsition is making a big DEAL out of this”.

By: OldManoftheSea

OldManoftheSea — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 09:39:06 +0000

Actually helicopter never got obsolete, they are re-furbish, change of parts until finally EVERY PARTS are new, except the chassis. Whether Nuri, Eurocopter of others.

I spoke to the French Guy at their service center in Subang, and he show me pictures of the difference stages of “repair” change of parts etc. You can verify this with any military personnel.

By: The Enforcer

The Enforcer — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 09:36:41 +0000

Uncle YB Lim, apparently the DDM doesn’t even know what his two ‘bosses’ were doing.
Okay we can forget about the figure RM 1.67 bil which ‘Sleepy’ said he rounded up and apologised about it. ( wonder how he rounded up from RM 1.604 bil to nearest two decimal and ended with 1.67?)
Now the difference is from 1.604 as claimed by the DDM and 1.1 as claimed by the KSU, variance of RM 504 million.
The DDM claimed that the 1.1 bil is the original figure without the other ‘extras’ added and the final figure is RM 1.604 bil.
Heard him saying an ‘offset’ figure of few hundred millions in terms of training, service, maintenance and what not.
See the word ‘OFFSET’ in a contract is the sum to be subtracted from the original figure, which means the country is only paying RM 1.1bil and not RM 1.604 bil! (it is not ADD-ON)
Yes, this can be true and correct. Claim from the government the latter figure and pay Eurocop the former figure thus pocketing the difference!
Was uncle YB Lim given a copy of the contract?
Check the details, eg:-
Technical specification.
Material specification.
Validity of contract.
Terms and condition of payment, delivery, warranty ( if there is percentage of warranty bond).
It was also reported that the deal is postponed till 2011. Are we sure we want the same specs now in the year 2011 as was mention by MP Gombak?
With the rated IT is improving by the day, the current specs will be obsolete by then!
It’s also mentioned the payment is in Euro. By then we’ll be paying even more (with the conversation rate by then unless we locked the contracted figure now!)
On another note. Ignore the Pasir Salak GOON. He looks as though he just got out of bed!
Keep going uncle YB Lim and good luck!

By: Citizen Smith

Citizen Smith — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 07:54:36 +0000

The letter highlights the primary shortcoming of the Nuri, its lack of up to date avionics to allow it to safely fly at night and in adverse weather. This is due to a deliberate policy by the RMAF and MINDEF in order to facilitate the procurement of a new platform. Why? Simply because a properly upgraded Nuri would be as capable as its successor.

Sikorsky/Carson Helicopters have a comprehensive upgrade that installs a SAGEM glass cockpit with all the latest doodads and new composite blades that gives impressive performance benefits. This was highlighted to the RMAF last year but the response was , “which part of replacement do you not understand?”.

Of course there will be howls that this is not a ‘real military’ solution. That’s true, but Carson flies more hours with half as many S-61s as the RMAF. They are commercial concern that has to make money AND stay safe in the most litigious country in the world.

S-61s with as low frame hours as the Nuris would be snapped up in heartbeat by the large user base. India bought ex-USN S-61s with a lot more hours on last year for their Navy. Providing the US green lights resale…otherwise they will end up like the A-4 Skyhawks, dumped in scrubland.

By: cazz

cazz — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 05:52:53 +0000

What will happen to those old Nuris?

Any thought on that? Would they be sold? overhauled? What would they be sold as? scrap metal? or as 2nd hand choppers? Where would the money go?

See a financial plan of purchasing replacement for old equipment certainly will take this in to consideration.

Or, most likely, the money from selling the old Nuris will just perish quietly. (Well, not perish, just silently relocated to someones’ bank account)

By: Jeffrey

Jeffrey — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 05:35:13 +0000

This happens worldwide with players – givers and receivers – from both developing and transition economies as well industrialised and advanced nations.

Defence contracts are ‘mother’ of all public procurement contracts if one wants to make money because defence corporations worldwide sweeten deals with secret commissions and global slush funds to politicians, military officers and middlemen alike.

It’s just damn good business because: -

1. defence contract sum is huge (in billions), and a small percentage translates to huge once in a life time sum for many;

2. defence contract is technical and public watchdogs and civil society are seldom in position to evaluate technical merits or demerits of the equipment compared to others in competition ;

3. it is often protected by official secrecy justified on the necessity to protect vital strategic capabilities from potential enemies in the interest of national security;

4. all normal check and balance eg over sight by external bodies, independent people or Civil Society or whistleblowing and all arguments for transparency are often overridden and denied due to overarching national security considerations stated in 3. above.

What YB Kit is doing here, provoking discussion on such procurement, inviting people with military and techical experience to give input and encouraging public and civil society’s discussion is a good thing to counter this sector of government procurement (Defence), which worldwide has proven the most corruption-prone of all international businesses.

By: bentoh

bentoh — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 05:13:34 +0000

Uncle Kit,

It’s academic.

By: pulau_sibu

pulau_sibu — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 04:34:34 +0000

Do our ACA and police need to be certified internationally for his quality? I afraid they are not capable of catching these ‘professional’ criminals from they wrong doings.

By: isahbiazhar

isahbiazhar — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 04:27:26 +0000

We can buy new helicopters if all the UMNO/BN corrupt money is collected from those who had abused political positions.The nation will sink further because everyone wants a cut.Why should the poor pilot use refurbished helicopters when politicians change cars every election?It looks like entering politics is another business.Every ministry will spend and every minister will make the cut.

By: Godfather

Godfather — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 03:31:06 +0000

Alamak, Kit, if you keep refurbishing old equipment, then where is the chance for the thieves to make money ? It’s all about CONTRACTS. Contracts make money go round, contracts add to the velocity of money (in economic parlance, it means how fast money gets churned over, but in Bolehland terms, it means how fast money disappears), and contracts allow new leaders to amass their own political funding.

The higher the price of the contract, the better for the leadership, since hiding (say) RM 500 million in a RM 3 billion contract is far easier than hiding RM 500 million in a RM 1 billion contract. Hence in Bolehland, the highest price tenderer wins !