The “Free MP Teresa Parliamentary Caucus” was formed in Parliament this evening with the support MPs of the three Pakatan Rakyat parties and the just-resigned Minister for Prime Minister’s Department, Senator Datuk Zaid Ibrahim.
The Caucus’ immediate agenda includes:
• Seek the support of Parliamentarians in ASEAN Inter-Parliamentary Assembly (AIPA), Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA) and Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) for the immediate and unconditional release of MP for Seputeh Teresa Kok from Internal Security Act (ISA).
• A meeting with the Deputy Inspector-General of Police on Teresa Kok’s detention and her condition of incarceration and health concerns.
• Visit of Teresa Kok.
• Motion for urgent debate on Teresa’s ISA detention when Parliament reconvenes on October 13, 2008.
Although the release of Teresa Kok from ISA detention is the immediate objective for the setting up of the caucus, MPs who attended its inaugural meeting are agreed that the Caucus should also work for the releasse of Raja Petra Kamarauddin, the Hindraf Five and all other ISA detainees as well as for the repeal of the detention-without-trial ISA.
Officials of the “Free MP Teresa Kok Parliamentary Caucus” appointed today are:
Joint Chairmen –
Lim Kit Siang – Ipoh Timor
Mohamed Azmin Ali – Gombak
Kamaruddin Jaffar – Tumpat
Joint Vice Chairmen –
Sivarasa Rasiah – Subang
Chong Eng – Bukit Mertajam
Salahuddin Ayub – Kubang Krian
Joint Secretaries –
Fong Po Kuan – Batu Gajah
Dr. Siti Mariah binti Mahmud – Kota Raja
William Leong Jee Keen – Selayang
Committee members
Fuziah binti Salleh – Kuantan
Saifuddin Nasution bin Ismail – Machang
Johari Abdul – Sungai Petani
M. Kulasegaran – Ipoh Barat
Tan Kok Wai – Cheras
Anthony Loke Siew Fook – Rasah
Dr Mohd Hatta bin Md Ramli – Kuala Kerai
Mahfuz bin Haji Omar – Pokok Sena
Khalid bin Abd Samad – Shah Alam
#1 by Mr Smith on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 7:23 pm
Did BN MPs attend the caucus?
#2 by ytshum on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 7:26 pm
Forget about the BN MPs , useless group .
#3 by sA1nT_Jam3s on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 7:26 pm
I thought MCA were against the ISA? and calling for the detainees release?
where were they? The last I checked, Jalan Ampang was free of jams today..
Keep up the pressure and get them released!
#4 by alaneth on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 7:29 pm
It is timely for all, not only PR MPs but hopefully the BN MPs who are equally against this injustice to also join this caucus.
For BN MPs – Don’t let your ‘Boss’ or his assistant bother you. Stand for what is right – like Zaid & let the rakyat support you. Your future is determined by the rakyat, not your ‘Boss’ or ‘Future Boss’.
Lets hold hands together for this caucus regardless of your political belongings.
#5 by rahmanwang on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 7:41 pm
Mr Smith,
BN component party member especially MCA,MIC & Gerakan do not have the guts to stand up on their rights.
I do not respect Gerakan.Here you have a photograph of the acting president being torn apart and stepped on & the best Dr Koh can say is ‘this is a step in the right direction’.I wonder did he mean ‘lucky they didn’t step straight to the nose’
What are you doing here.BN do not respect & welcome you anymore.If you are not welcome then leave and stay independent like SAPP.They have the courage.The rest don’t.
#6 by yhsiew on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 7:46 pm
I am disappointed that none of MCA and Gerakan’s MPs attended the anti-ISA parliamentary caucus to free Teresa Kok this afternoon.
MCA and Gerakan are only good at talking and impressing people with their anti-ISA comments in the main stream media, but quick to shy away from taking real actions – presumably for fear of being punished by their “big brother” i.e. UMNO in BN.
I am pleased that Zaid Ibrahim – the only BN representative – was at the caucus.
#7 by Jimm on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 7:54 pm
We have learnt well on who are the leaders that look after this country and her people with clear justices and equal benefits.
#8 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 7:57 pm
where is mca, mic, gerakan,ppp , and other parties from east malaysia?
if by appearing for a good cause that none dare to show their face, than i really doubt dsai has the numbers.
false hope is just as bad as broken promises.
should not the chairman be the head of opposition ? just asking.
#9 by AsalUsuLMalaysia on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 7:58 pm
MORE detainee’s on its way, NT7 Edisi7 had anounce 3police had arrested and seige the laptop belongs to Syed Azidi Syed Aziz in Kelantan. They claim his post contain “HASUTAN”…
http://kickdefella.wordpress.com/
ON OTHER HAND, THEY HAD CLEARED EVERY EVIDENCE FROM!…
http://pembelamelayu.wordpress.com/
THis site contains most racist and disturbing threads agains PKR and DAP.
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE “PEMBELAMELAYU.COM” BLOGGER? WHY ACTION OR ARREST TAKEN AGAINS HIM/HER?! WHY CLEAR HIS PAGE AND ARREST OTHERS!?
#10 by human1 on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 8:01 pm
It is far more complicated than labelling MCA, MIC and Gerakan as cowards for not attending the caucus. Traditionally, there has been a thick line separating ruling coalition and opposition party. This does not allow any BN members to cross over the line to attend the function organized by the opposition.
The BN way is to compromise and discuss issues internally. I assume that the party leaders are currently working hard, in the progress to talk with the BN big brother partner to discuss the issue. We have no visibility of the internal discussion if there is any, the party members are usually not allowed to issue public statements, especially at times like this.
I suggest BN to have their own caucus formed, to free Teresa, RPK, Hindraf 5 and other detainees.
#11 by milduser on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 8:14 pm
DSAI is a threat to the country’s economy + sucurity, say Bodowi. ISA may be used on him.
As I’m sure, a dying and corrupt regime will do an thing to stay in power.
PK, don’t give face to BN. Do it now or never. You have the people’s support.
#12 by KennyGan on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 8:15 pm
MCA only knows how to talk to show they are still alive but as for real action, these lapdogs are too cowardly.
There’s a very high political cost to hold Teresa Kok with zero politcal benefit so I wonder why Bodowi is still holding her. Practically everybody knows the truth about the azan callls. How stupid can some people get?
#13 by baoqingtian on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 8:16 pm
MCA said they are against the use of ISA and demand the release of Teresa Kok and RPK but how can they miss this opportunity. They always say one thing but do another.
#14 by StevePCH on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 8:17 pm
freeing YB Kok would be an uphill task … from what that is happening this 2 days, I really think PL & Jib has got something up in the sleeves. Be very careful.
By accusing and claiming DSAI a national threat, PL had just made the justification for future ISA arrest. It’s a horror that these are coming out from him but all PR members should be extra careful.
Take Care !!! Long Live Democracy , Long Live Malaysia …. ( then you have to abolish ISA , Emergency Ordinance and other draconian “laws”…. )
#15 by merdeka on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 8:17 pm
MCA & GERAKAN need new leadership who have the guts to lead the party out of BN. I urge all MCA & GERAKAN members to vote for these leaders!!!!!!!
#16 by wanderer on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 8:22 pm
Don’t count on the component parties of BN, MCA, MIC and Gerakan.
They are just barking dogs with no ma*bles… dead lost parties!
The wounded bull, is now behaving like a mad bull. All govt critics, even using non violent approaches, will be exposed to danger of being locked up. The decay of Democracy is glaring in our eyes. Hopefully, the formation of the Parliamentary Caucus will serve its intentions or, we will all be at the mercy of this rotten BN administration.
#17 by Tulip Crescent on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 8:25 pm
Does the “Anwar a national threat” statement by Pak Lah foreshadow another ISA crackdown?
I hope sanity will prevail and the ISA will not be used.
Malaysians today regard the ISA as a “badge of honour.”
And Anwar, of all persons, does not need yet another badge. He has got it twice over.
The people are quite fed up with the abuse and misuse of the ISA over the last 40 years or more.
It is time to meet an argument with a better argument. If that argument cannot be so met, then it is time for that argument to be adopted and acted upon.
God bless Malaysia …
#18 by Tulip Crescent on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 8:28 pm
merdeka Says:
Today at 20: 17.52 (7 minutes ago)
MCA & GERAKAN need new leadership who have the guts to lead the party out of BN. I urge all MCA & GERAKAN members to vote for these leaders!!!!!!!
*** ***
The MCA and Gerakan represent Umno to their purported constituency. They never represent their purported constituency to Umno.
So, do not expect anything from such quarters. Otherwise, you will be disappointed. These people are just self-servers. They do not serve the people.
The make the right noise, hoping that people will support them. Many have supported them over the years.
Today, they admit that they were never consulted, even on the ISA arrests. On what other things have they been consulted? Nothing.
#19 by Saint on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 8:31 pm
I will not be surprised if Teresa is asked to sign a “no case against government” as one of the conditions of her release from ISA.
#20 by BNgetOUT on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 8:41 pm
It should not be only a “Free Teresa thingy”. It should be FREE ALL under the ISA now.
#21 by penang308 on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 8:46 pm
Where is “Ah Pow” of “Chicken Association” and “Ah Piow” of “GELAKan”?
Lately, both of them seems to be very talkative BUT when it come to “ACTION”, both of them “DISAPPEAR”!
#22 by giko on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 8:52 pm
alamak Rosmah’s the new finance minister!
God help us…
#23 by badak on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 8:52 pm
How to support lahhhh…UMNO we get us back says MCA MIC leader.If not for corruption.We will get caught under ISA just like TERESA and RPK.
#24 by nkeng11 on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 8:54 pm
MCA & Gerakan need new leaders? There are no more members in them left. Many have left or gave up! Like me for example. We don’t need new leaders. We need new party and it is already there… PKR, DAP or PAS.
ISA… The police cannot catch kidnappers and as a result victims are often dead when discovered… but they are very fast to catch bloggers! You see bloggers sits in front of their computers and don’t go anywhere…easy to catch.
See how easy they catch RPK and Kickdefella!
916… DSAI better move as fast as lightning before he is being hauled up under ISA. This time he may have to sit in for a good 2 years until 2010. I suggest he march to the Parliment and take over with the consent of the Agong. Better to aggresive than trying to be a gentleman. In politics it is “kill” or be “killed”. Tomorrow may be too late!
Portfolio change… Just an eyewash and nothing more to it! Can we all see the reason? The bunch of bargers are the same… Badawi & Najib. If both of them cannot contribute and pool resources to govern whatever ministries they are in, can giving Najib the Finance ministry change anything? Nothing changes if you put 2 monkeys in charge of bananas.
FDIs… Get MITI to show who invested, how much, where and when. No need to talk onelah.
Economy of Malaysia… Ham Kar Chan…is my summary.
Politics and future of Malaysia… It will shake and shake and shake before it gets any better. My bet… next 4 years and the situation would be worse than now unless something drastic happens.
My future…? May die tonight!
#25 by nkeng11 on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 8:56 pm
Fark… my back is giving me the problem again… Pain uncle pain…
Paid taxes for the last 30 years and what do I get? Pain.
Park Lah.
#26 by ch on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 9:06 pm
Dear All,
The quick setting up of this caucus is a step in the right direction but the question in front of us is whether or not it wield the clout which are badly needed to institute the action plan(s) drawn up by the caucus itself. While the caucus could move forward demanding the government for the many issues that warrant its establishment just now, it is the right of the government whether or not to listen. For example, meeting the DGP and demanding the release of ISA detainees would be a step in the wrong direction as the decision lies somewhere else or in someone else’s hand.
The incumbent, as in this case, the BN government would do everything in its hands to further consolidate itself and place an iron curtain against the opposition. If we care to look further, the government has already setting quick political footwork towards this direction. The resignation of Zaid Ibrahim is yet another example that there are too many powerful individuals unwilling to change, and this include the person who first shouted the change slogan. The only changes that would come is they change just for the sake to save their own skins.
As Kalimullah has rightly pointed out, the sweet smell of power is too strong that it could even overpower human’s principles.
#27 by yhsiew on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 9:18 pm
Incumbent MCA MPs, such as Ong Ka Ting, Ong Tee Kiat and Ng Yen Yen, didn’t even have the guts to mention Teresa Kok and RPK’s names in their anti-ISA comments ( check Chinese website: http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/89804 ), how you expect them to attend the caucus??!! Their anti-ISA comments only applied to Sin Chew’s reporter Ms Tan Hoon Cheng.
On the contrary non-incumbent MCA members, Chua Soi Lek and Chua Jui Meng, were more daring; they urged the government to release Teresa Kok and RPK. I have more respect for the two Chua’s than the other MCA members mentioned above.
#28 by StevePCH on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 9:22 pm
DSAI PR …. be very careful …. ISA
#29 by greatstuff on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 9:24 pm
P.M. Abdullah’s pronouncement this evening that “DSAI is a threat to the nations economy and security”, appears to be a veiled threat to arrest him under ISA!
This is a frightening prospect which, if such a crazy action is taken, will plunge the country into the abyss. Surely he can’t be that mad? What do you all think is going to happen now?
#30 by Sunrisepotato on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 9:25 pm
Why UMNO still in power ????? how long shall i wait… i cant wait to see this racist party being kick out from this country.
These Umno racists sure knows what is human rights, what state in the perlembagaan about no discrimination between the skin color, they just play some tricks to serve their purpose ($$$$)
#31 by chin on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 9:35 pm
Well ! Gerakan actually refers as “Tidak Dapat Gerak”. MCA actually refers as “Me No Choice Ahhhh”. But ! Both are in common terms & that is “Yellow Chicken Rice” !
Well ! Both chicken out ! Therefore, don’t hope for them, don’t even plead to them, don’t even beg for them , they are just Hopeless !
At least SAPP did show a last minute muscle. At least they play the Poker Game well…
#32 by vsp on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 9:35 pm
LKS
This obnoxious piece of legislation was not even drafted by the Malaysian Parliament. Correct me if I am wrong. At that time of desperate circumstances, the ISA was specifically introduced in order to meet the Communist threat. It was never intended to be used on ordinary civilians. However the British failed to repel this law and the Alliance Party, and later on the BN conveniently carried it on up to this present day.
The Communist threat had long ago been overcome yet the state of Emergency is still not been officially declared over. This is a negligence on the part of the BN to use the ISA on the population. ISA is only meant for external threat and not to be used on ordinary citizens. ISA is AGAINST the sovereignty of the people of Malaysia.
But over the years the objectives of the ISA has veered drastically off course to the ridiculous. Now it is been used to imprison citizens who had not done any harm to the security of the country. These people are only perceived by the ruling party to be hurting their interests and survival. The real culprits are left off the hook.
In today’s report by Malaysiakini : Another round of ISA for Anwar?
• Sep 17, 08 3:03pm
•
“He has become a threat to the economy and possibly (national) security,’ warned Abdullah – an accusation that could allow the government to detain Anwar under the ISA.”
Why is Abdullah even comtemplat[ng to use the ISA on an elected MP of a recognised political party who had been building bridges for the various races and who has followed conventional parliamentary procedures to effect an ordinary change of government? Anwar’s attempt to meet him in order to carry out an orderly transition was rebuffed unceremoniously. Instead Abdullah prefers to turn this whole process into another circus. He should have accepted the challenge in the presence of the Chief Justice and other relevant officials and if Anwar cannot produce the evidence, this could only be to the great detriment to Anwar’s reputation. Why does Abdullah not think this way and instead choose to run away and play to the gallery. This is not the quality of a true leader in a parliamentary democracy.
In contrast, the right candidate to be ISAed should be Mahathir. Mahathir thinks that the PM post is his private property which he can give and take away anytime he likes. Abdullah was legally choosen to be the prime minister of Malaysia and it is the Agong who appointed Abdullah to be the PM based on confidence of the majority of MPs. Mahathir has no legal standing to insist on who he wants to be the PM. He does not even belong to any legally constituted political party, yet he is interfering in the party in which Abdullah is the President. Apart from this, he is illegally trying to force his choice by inciting seditious statements and stirring up racial issues. Without a single day passes he never ceases to undermine the position of the prime minister of Malaysia. Not only does he tread on sedition but he also challenged the authority and blessing of the Agong.
Abdullah, why not Mahathir and why are you insulting the choice of the people. Please don’t compound your first mistake on the use of the ISA. Anwar Ibrahim has not done anything wrong. He has the support of the people who want to see the dawn of a new Malaysia where all races are being treated with respect. Anwar seeks to build but Mahathir and your very own party, UMNO are trying to burn down Malaysia. Please don’t go on a rampage and plunge Malaysia into another Zimbabwe or Myanmar. Anwar Ibrahim is following the right path but Mahathir, who don’t have the mandate of the people, is going the illegal and brutish way by trying to topple you.
#33 by Only Peace on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 9:38 pm
I think PM is propagating his reason to advance power to detain DSAI.
This is the last resort in his capacity. His has no other alternatives.
Probably he has gone power crazy. Wonder what happen to this once considered a ‘Pure Islamic Leader’
I now wonder whether he is being wayang kulit by his son in law again! :(
#34 by chin on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 9:40 pm
2008 has proved to be “Show Down In Malaysia”. We should invite Mr. Mac Mahon to announce both Tag Team Champion Of The Ring.
#35 by limkamput on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 9:46 pm
Why are our MPs so spineless? If DSAI really has the number, show it. Should the MPs be arrested or harassed after the revelation, so be it. This is what our MPs ought to be – stand up and be counted. There is no need to play hide and seek anymore. If PR has the number, do it. If not, just concentrate your role as opposition till the next election. I think this nation can no longer afford this kind of politicking. Frankly, there are shadow plays in both sides. This country has been without an effective government for almost a year. I think it is enough. When we supported opposition during the March election, we have never expected the country will degenerate into quagmire like what we are seeing today.
#36 by AhPek on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 9:52 pm
I see that there are still quite a few commenters agonising futilely over the absence of MCA,PPP,Gerakan,MIC etc etc in the caucas and for what.It’s time for an action long overdue and that is to bury them and consign them to the dustbin of history.Make doubly sure that at the next available opportunity (13th GE) get your friends, acquaintances,families,relatives and whoever not to pangkah them.Action like this is much more positive and productive for MALAYSIA!
#37 by yhsiew on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 9:53 pm
Abdullah said the finance portfolio would enable Najib to prepare himself for the prime minister’s job, but the move drew strong criticism from the opposition.
“We do not want a return to the days of authoritarianism under a prime minister (Najib) who has been oriented towards repression and the old political crony culture,” said opposition spokesman Tian Chua.
@@http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINSP35599620080917?rpc=611
#38 by vsp on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 9:55 pm
LKS
I posted a comment on MCA yesterday. It was displayed on your blog for about two hours and suddenly it was abruptly removed. Was my comment too hot and had raised the ire of MCA? If you think so, then it’s okay with me.
#39 by AhPek on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 9:59 pm
We know a tiger is most dangerous when it is wounded and that is exactly the situation we find Sleepy Head today.Dsai must act doubly quick or else he is likely to join his junior Malay College schoolmate, and with that the demise of a possible 2 party system.
#40 by just a moment on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 10:08 pm
This is really bad.
Economy gonna suffer.
I just hope whatever has been sowed towards New Goment, it must quickly take shape. Otherwise its gonna dip regardless who takes over esp those ppl from BN.
The rise in political tensions has hit the country’s currency and the stock market .KLSE.
The cost of insuring the Malaysia’s debt has risen sharply to around $173,136 per $10 million of debt from $90,185 prior to the March election, based on prices for 5-year credit default swaps , a barometer of risk.
($1=3.455 Malaysian Ringgit) (Additional reporting by Faisal Aziz, Liau Y-Sing; Writing by David Chance; Editing by Jeremy Laurence)
#41 by Jimm on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 10:09 pm
Rakyat know what they really want from their leaders.
Rakyat knew who can be their leaders….
We, rakyat Malaysia will be ONE for the truth of independence and peace for all Malaysian.
#42 by ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 10:09 pm
limkamput make sense.
if dsai have the numbers , just show it.
if not- just rule the 5 states and allow the country to move on .
the raayat is suffering from overdose of politics.
#43 by StevePCH on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 10:22 pm
I don’t care who is in Power …. my life is suffering because of the fuel price …. now that the crude price has dropped !!!
Drop fuel price !!! Abolish ISA !!! Remember SHA said no more ISA …. going again flip flop ?
LA Times reported :-
On Tuesday, U.S. benchmark crude oil for October delivery traded as low as $90.51 before closing at $91.15 a barrel, down $4.56. Oil prices have plunged nearly $10 a barrel this week as investors have sought safety in cash, believing that Wall Street turmoil signaled more problems for the economy that would slow energy demand.
#44 by UzMiNoOnist on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 10:23 pm
Does the “Anwar a national threat” statement by Pak Lah foreshadow another ISA crackdown? …Tulip Crescent
If they arrest DSAI, I will boycott anything that has UMNO in it. Lets the rakyat do that collectively, then they will feel the pinch.
#45 by sheriff singh on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 10:32 pm
Let us end all the power and shadow plays.
If PR and Anwar really have the numbers to change the government, it should just file a motion of no confidence on Pak Lah’s government when Parliament next meet in October. Just finish it off once and for all.
Then go see the Agong with your majority to form the next government.
The PM is someone who commands the majority of MPs no matter what party they come from.
So just do it lah. Motion of no confidence. Legal way out. Straight forward.
#46 by limkamput on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 10:32 pm
UzMiNoOnist, talk is cheap. Our sister Teresa Kok is inside now. Why can’t we do the same for her as you said you will do if DSAI is inside?
#47 by cemerlang on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 10:36 pm
Look at the ordinary Thais. Look at Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Burma and all round the world. The people know what they want. Now that the portfolio has changed, will the P.M. announce a military crackdown ? SAPP, Sabah has said their goodbye to Barisan Nasional. Should admire them for their courage. More people now in Sabah will support SAPP.
#48 by vsp on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 10:36 pm
Remember the Constitutional crises? On that mad and crazy days of attempted Maha-autocracy to clip the wings of the Agong and the sultans, he insulted each and every rulers with unsubstantiated dirty linens in public which were printed in the MSM. This was the mother of all seditions. The sole purpose was to abolish the monarchy and to established a Republic where he would become life President. Luckily, he did not succeed in this devious scheme but unfortunately he became more powerful. The ISA was used willy nilly. However, the sultans were greatly humilated and abused. Most probably the rulers would even be ISAed if he had wanted to.
So you see why the ISA has to go? It is an insult to the freedom of the people and also to the dignity of the monarchy.
#49 by wifeejane on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 10:39 pm
ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH & limkamput Says. Both of u r talking thorough ur asshole and thinking through ur backside. If the name list was review ISA will be invoke togather with marshal law
#50 by wifeejane on Wednesday, 17 September 2008 - 10:40 pm
ADAM YONG IBNI ABDULLAH & limkamput Says. Both of u r talking thorough ur asshole and thinking through ur backside. If the name list was review ISA will be invoke togather with marshal law. End up rakyat will suffer and another 513