If the Permatang Pauh by-election is decided by the Nomination Day turnout this morning, Parti Keadilan Rakyat (PKR) adviser Anwar Ibrahim would win hands down.
Never before in any by-election nomination in Malaysian electoral history has the Barisan Nasional been so-outnumbered and overwhelmed, whether in terms of supporters; publicity materials whether flags, buntings or banners; or sheer enthusiasm, morale and spirit of the supporters.
In the sea of humanity at the Nomination Centre this morning, Anwar’s supporters from the three Pakatan Rakyat parties of PKR, DAP and PAS simply drowned out the Barisan Nasional supporters from Umno, MCA, Gerakan and MIC, led by a very subdued Deputy Prime Minister, Datuk Seri Najib Razak himself, Umno Youth leader Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein and his deputy Khairy Jamaluddin.
There are those who estimate that the crowd was as big as 100,000 or more, with the Pakatan Rakyat supporters exceeding the Barisan Nasional supporters by a ratio of from 1:7 to 1:10.
UMNO Youth Hishammuddin yesterday played the sympathy card when he “begged” Permatang Pauh voters to support the Barisan Nasional candidate “because we are the underdog”.
The role of an “underdog” does not sit well with Hishammuddin as memories among Malaysians are still fresh that he was far from being an underdog when he wielded the Malay keris at the Umno Youth general assembly for three consecutive years, utterly insensitive of the sensitivities of a multi-racial Malaysia. Nor is the Prime Minister’s son-in-law best cast in the role of an “underdog”!
The impression the outnumbered and demoralized BN team gave at the Nomination Centre this morning was certainly not one of an “underdog” but of a Chinese description of the “rat running across the street”!
Anwar is right however in his caution to all workers and supporters not to be complacent and take the BN mechanism lightly, as the BN is fully capable of turning the table on polling day by snatching victory from the jaws of defeat with its tested “bag of dirty tricks”.
It is a sad commentary on Anwar’s total lack of confidence in the independence and integrity of the electoral system that Dr Mansor Othman, former Penang PKR leader, had to be nominated as an independent candidate as a “strategic contingency” move in case Anwar was unreasonably and unjustly disqualified – with Mansor announcing his withdrawal when Anwar sailed through the nomination process, forfeiting RM15,000 in the process!
Anwar had very good reason to take such a precautionary measure as the decision by the Election Commission to fix a Tuesday – August 26 – as the polling day for the by-election was clearly unfair and undemocratic, designed to discourage a high voter turn-out being a working day particularly for the high percentage of factory workers in the constituency and therefore unfavourable to Anwar’s candidature.
The battle royale of the Permatang Pauh by-election for the next ten days is on – with far reaching consequences not just for Anwar and the constituency, but for the nation and 27 million Malaysians.
#1 by shamshul anuar on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 11:28 pm
Dear Imranj78,
To win big, I strongly advise Anwar to accept the challenge by Saiful to swear in God’s name. Oh dear. Do not be afraid to accept the challenge. What is there to be afraid of the act of swearing in God’s name if you had not committed sodomy on Saiful.
So, the topic of Chong Wei enters finale pales to the story of Anwar not accepting challenge by Saiful ( at least by Malay community).
Anwar, if you want to be PM and win big in this by election, please accept the challenge.
That if you have nothing to do with sodomy case. And for Saiful, woe betide those who lie.
#2 by kcb on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 11:38 pm
En. shamshul, I am not a muslim and I admit I don’t know “the significance of swearing in God’s name and asking for divine punishment should one lie.”.
However, PAS president Abdul Hadi Awang, a respected muslim, has regarded Mohd Saiful Bukhari Azlan’s act of swearing on the Quran as an act of kebodohan (stupidity) which went against the teachings of Islam (read from Malaysiakini).
Can you please enlighten us?
#3 by imranj78 on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 11:50 pm
kcb,
I must admit I am not a ustad or religious teacher who can comment on the act of swearing. But I look at it this way – Someone who makes a `Statutory Declaration’ like many have done is doing so because he believes he is right. Similarly, the act of swearing in God’s name, is only done by someone who is convinced that he is in the right. Whether the act of swearing itself is the right way to show truth I leave it open for debate but the underlying reason for the action is more important.
I am not necessarily saying that Saiful is 100% correct – nobody can be entirely sure anymore nowadays. I am just saying that with the swearing, the heat on Anwar has been increased a notch higher. Most non-Muslims might not care about the swearing but voices in the hearts of many Muslims have been triggered by the swearing. If Anwar is in the right, he has to counter the swearing effectively as his morality has been questioned in the open. It is not something to just sweep under the carpet.
#4 by Jong on Saturday, 16 August 2008 - 11:55 pm
Shamshul annuar,
Don’t make me puke. Swear by the Quran, what does that prove? It does not prove their innocence.
Crooks, the corrupt, murders and conspirators do that all the time and they are never short in um-no! It means nothing to them and these scumbags are prepared to use GOD’s name hide behind religion, they have no conscience!
#5 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:01 am
What is there to be afraid of ? Open the books on PKFTZ lah….tell us who is behind the consortium bidding for the broadband project….show us the list of AP recipients. No need to swear on the Koran.
#6 by cheng on on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:04 am
Maybe both Anwar n Saiful got to swear by the holy book and also make a statuatory declaration.
#7 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:07 am
Let the voters tell us who they believe.
#8 by imranj78 on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:13 am
Godfather,
Voters should not be `used’ to decide who is right or who is wrong. Trial by media like what Anwar and his supporters have been trying to do is also not right and unethical. Decision of who to believe and who is right or wrong should and must be left to the courts to decide.
#9 by katdog on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:24 am
Agreed. Let us see who the voters believe. All those who believe Saiful was forcefully sodomised by an aging man with a bad back can vote BN.
Anwar should not be required to swear or do any petty stuff like that in order to demonstrate his innocence. If Anwar swears, does that immediately absolve him and suddenly prove that he is innocent? If Anwar was an evil man who had forcefully sodomised someone, do you think he would have any qualms about swearing his innocence on the Quran?
On the contrary, people who are guilty and desparate to maintain their innocence would probably be the first in line to swear on the Quran if that would absolve them of any crimes.
#10 by Jong on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:24 am
That gutter politician aka “batu api” has joined in the fray, calling for Anwar to swear by the Quran.
These desperados are colloborating to discredit Anwar. They are fighting for their lives to stay out of jail, when Pakatan Rakyat takes over the federal government soon and when Anwar becomes Prime Minister.
#11 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:28 am
imranj78 said:
“Voters should not be `used’ to decide who is right or who is wrong. Trial by media like what Anwar and his supporters have been trying to do is also not right and unethical. Decision of who to believe and who is right or wrong should and must be left to the courts to decide.”
Who is conducting the trial by media ? Are you referring to the mainstream media ? The last time I looked, Anwar was being declared guilty by all and sundry in the Barang Naik consortium.
Also, the last time I read an UMNOputra’s posting on this thread, it appears that UMNO isn’t going to leave the decision to the courts. UMNO clearly wants Allah to decide.
#12 by katdog on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:31 am
“Voters should not be `used’ to decide who is right or who is wrong. Trial by media like what Anwar and his supporters have been trying to do is also not right and unethical. Decision of who to believe and who is right or wrong should and must be left to the courts to decide.”
Ha ha funny. Someone just mentioned earlier that if Anwar does not dare to swear on the Quran then that must mean he has something to hide. imranj78, i think you should go tell that guy that the innocence of a man should be left to the courts, not on swears.
And i think you misinteprated the statement got things upside down. Its not the the voters will vote to decide if Anwar is innocent or not. Its the other way, voters that believe Anwar will vote PR. Voters that don’t will vote BN. So let us see who the voters believe.
#13 by I Malaysian on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:34 am
Don’t be complacent, is the right attitude. The PR members and supporters have to treat this election like the last ever to be held. Every single person could contribute something.
Harris Ibrahim of People Parliament has launched a sms message to garner support for Anwar. On my part I have sent his sms to at least 25 friends of mine and I’ll continue to send.
Hope those of our readers who have not visited his blog, to do so to get the sms message details.
#14 by I Malaysian on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:36 am
This is the sms Harris wants us to send:
Media massa arus p’dana akn m’perdayakan rkyt & m’cari helah utk gagalkan Dtk Seri Anwar Ibrm di P/Pauh dgn berita palsu – m’jatuhkan nama Dtk Seri & menanam rasa syak wasangka. Jom boikot! Jgn beli s/kabar & jgn p’caya berita radio/TV. Sebar kpd kwn2 di P/Png & P/Pauh.
By Harris Ibrahim
#15 by sirrganass on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:36 am
Anwar can now swear “just for fun” just to challenge Saifool. Nothing to do with religion because many ulamak shas said that swearing the way Saifool did is not ISLAMIC and doesn’t solve the problem.
Pakatan Rakyat can leave to your partner (PAS) for any conflict on ISLAMIC matters. There are other “funny” ustads or imam but since PAS is very good in religion matter, leave this to PAS. Ask TG Hadi Awang or Nik Aziz. Don’t ask other IMAMs because their stance on certain issues are different (UMNO-orientated)
#16 by spthang123 on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:38 am
(I am just an ordinary Malaysian and am not a member of any political party. but I just have to voice this out.
May I make a comment here in case this same message is not allowed to publish in Chedet’s blog)
TDM, in your 22 years as PM of Malaysia, you have done good but you have also done bad many times over.
On the 16.8.2008 Saturday you suggest Anwar to swear over the Koran to prove his innocent.
I too suggest you swear over the Koran that you did not frame Anwar for sodomy in year 1998.
#17 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:39 am
We can’t trust our future to the den of thieves known as UMNO, so we have to have some faith that PR will do better for us than the den of thieves. If we are wrong, we will know what to do at the next elections.
Heck, I will even vote for “Uncle Pet” at the next elections if PR doesn’t deliver the changes that they are promising should they form the federal government.
#18 by sirrganass on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:39 am
Asslamuaikum Shamsul. Saya muslim juga. All those established ULAMAK have said that SaiFOOL’s swear is not islamic and “STUPID”, but just because one IMAM in Masjid Wilayah said “go ahead” made you think ANUAR MUST SWEAR ALSO? Must we dance they way they dance?
Now somebody has to tell kcb, cheng, godfather etc which one is right.
DAP or PKR should realise that as far as PR is concerned, the reference on ISLAMIC MATTERS can be beautifully handled by PAS. That is PAS’s JOB. In the PAKATAN, DAP can be incharge of National/malaysian Unity, National Developement etc. PKR can handle economy, agriculture etc but ISLAMIC MATTERS or MALAY AFFAIR leave it to hundreds of ULAMAK in PAS. This is beautiful already!
Yes UMNO also have ulamak but we know Ustzh Mashita and few others are quite “funny”!!! At least pls refer to MUFTI PERLIS which seems to be active too but doen’t want to be under PAS. Then consider him “NATURAL”.
THe non-muslims in PR can just read harakahdaily.net or PAS.ORG.MY for the final verditions on any ISLAMIC CONFLICTS. Yes, there are sects in ISLAM on minor issues and personal opinions varies but please, PR, refer to your partner: PAS… ok? Pas won’t bite you and PAS won’t fool you. All true muslim cannot do bad thing to not only non-muslims, even “innocent” animals must not be unnecessarily touched.
PR, please refer or talk face to face with your own islamic “brother” because if you ask other funny ustads, you will get funny answers!
#19 by imranj78 on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:40 am
katdog,
Maybe you should actual read and try to understand my postings rather then read but not understand. I never said that Anwar should counter by swearing as well did I? I said he must respond to it in an effective way; in what ever way he deems best. These are different things.
And your concept of law and justice is skewed. Yes voters will decide who they `think’ is right or wrong based on their perception. But the ultimate decision depends on the courts. Outcome of an election do not decide guilt or innocence.
#20 by cintaaman on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:41 am
Dear Lim Kit Siang, please postpone the DAP general meeting, Your general meeting is 23 – 24 August, PPauh by-election will be 26 August. Utusan, BHarian & TV3 will sure to make a big perkauman issue on 25 August. They will putar belik the DAP resolutios and make the Headline on the 25 August, Then, PRakyat do not have time to clarify. It is the very critical time. Please think…
#21 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:42 am
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that if Anwar is voted overwhelmingly into Parliament, it would mean that he is innocent. I think we are all mature enough to understand that if Anwar wins by a landslide, then not many voters take the swearing of Saifool very seriously.
#22 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:48 am
I for one would like to know who is actually behind the “hide and seek” games being played out by Subramaniam and his family, by Dr Hamid Osman and his family, by Subramaniam’s nephews and by the lawyers mentioned in the first SD of Subramaniam.
I would like to know who is behind this blatant obstruction of justice.
#23 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 12:50 am
Kit, I agree with the suggestion that the DAP should postpone its Annual General Meeting until Anwar has been proclaimed victor in the PP by-election. The fewer issues for the den of thieves to exploit, the better for everyone concerned.
#24 by katdog on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 1:08 am
imranj78,
Ha ha. I think you are the one that misunderstood me. My paragraph on the “Anwar should counter by swearing” thingy was meant for the Shamshul annuar fellar who wanted Anwar to swear to prove his innocence. I was trying to hint at the irony of you telling godfather that the courts should decide ones innocence but you did not tell that to Shamshul Annuar. I guess you did not read his post.
And FYI, yes i believe the courts should be the ones to determine ones innocence.
#25 by Malaysian Mummy on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 1:27 am
Mohd Saiful Bukhari Azlan swore on the Quran before scores of press members and religious officials at the Federal Territory mosque that he was sodomised by his former boss Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim.
Saiful moves was political motivated on timely during the nomination day of Anwar caused indirectly cursing his boss with bad omen in Ghosts Month. Such dirty tactics used by Anwar’s enemies created such cruel “CURSE” using a holy Quran is very sinful This political curse wll frightened the Permatang Pauh voters to reject or avoiding the support for Anwar. The voters dont wish to be part of the “Curse” of swearing even Anwar is not guilty unless proven guilty.
Therefore as far as Islamic principle is concerned, the oath swearing should be made under the direction of syariah criminal court , not at Saiful free will at the FT mosque of his choice. The FT mosque has been tainted with shameful act of a person interest rather than a national interest which the Rakyat Muslim communities are very unhappy today.
What allegedly happened between Saiful and Anwar is not something threatening the national interest faced by the Rakyat. Instead of taking such an oath, Saiful should have sought justice in the Syariah Court. The Mufti and authorities allowed such actions taken in holy mosque are disgraceful to the entire muslim society.
Rakyat Malaysians know who is right or wrong end of the day and no need to read, listen and see a sinful swearing of oath by a childish 23 years old kid who knew nuts about politics but but he has fooled, disgraced himself in public and used by the Oppositions of Anwar.
INSYALLAH ! Allah is the eye witness everyday and no need to swear any oath to HIS ALMIGHTY.
#26 by imranj78 on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 1:34 am
katdog,
Apologies if I understood your message. To be honest I read Shamshul’s post only much later after I posted the reply to Godfather :)
Nevertheless, some people do relate with Shamshul’s point of view, rightly or wrongly, hence it cannot be totally disregarded. As for me, I’ll leave it to the courts to decide.
#27 by lucia on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 1:36 am
MAFREL will be out to monitor the election. please visit our blog for daily updates of reports from first hand experience of our members. you won’t get to read such news (report) in any MSM (or other sites).
http://mafrel.wordpress.com
#28 by wanderer on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 1:36 am
Yes YB LKS, postpone DAP AGM. Let show solidarity with PKR and PAS, “The spirit of ONENESS”
#29 by Cookie Monster on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 1:57 am
hope DSAI victory margin in PP will be the largest , breaking all history ever recorded.
#30 by limkamput on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 2:23 am
Show solidarity with PAS and PKR? I think we must seriously look at the statements made by PAS the last few days – the government of Malaysia must centre on Malay-Muslims, PAS president should be appointed PM, etc. Not so easy my friends, even if Anwar is appointed PM in due course. I don’t think the mentality and the national ethos is going to change much. I see reactionary and bigotry forces everywhere both within BN as well as in PR. It would require tenacious efforts on the part of moderate PR leadership to steer the nation toward cosmopolitanism. But do we have sufficient number of moderate leaders?
#31 by aquaimplotec on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 4:44 am
A battle ground for the elephants is never left undisturbed.
Permatang Puah may never recover from this coming battle between BN & PR! Vietnam was the battle ground between Russia & USA, see what has happened to this couuntry!!!
If BN has any ounce of human decency left in their heartless breast, let it be a walk over by PR!!!! It is only the wife giving her seat to her husband!
The real battle has not yet begun.
#32 by pulau_sibu on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 5:52 am
Penang is a state that is very special. A true democratic government with almost clean Pakatan Rakyat was established after the March election. A first real threat to the Barisan Nasional.
Penang is now moving toward to making another history by reinstating Anwar to the parliament. That is to pave way for a true democratic Malaysia.
The huge crowd gathered during the nomination day was a true surprise. From the youtube video, we felt the momentum. Malays are changing, and Malaysia is changing. I was surprised that the dropouts, those already rejected by the people, such as Samy and Koh, had to be there.
Uncle Lim is a good man. I could sense that this man has always something in his brain that is above everyone. I think he has a clear idea of what to do and how to achieve it. That is why he has been staying on to fight for the last half a century. Hopefully we can see the fruits, fruits for all, very soon.
#33 by tenaciousB on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 7:40 am
The change has to take place sooner, cause one of BN’s strategies is to deplete the savings like what they did in 2004, they spent 204 million on advertising itself, that alone for the federal territory constituents. So they may just drain the government before leaving it.
#34 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 8:03 am
The den of thieves at it again:
http://aisehman.org/?p=652
Even more blatant than before. March 8 tsunami was only a partial victory for the rakyat. We must complete what we set out to do – get rid of the den of thieves for good.
#35 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 8:33 am
“What is there to be afraid of. If you have not committed the act of sodomy, please swear in full view of the world. It will enhance your reputation. People will say ‘”See Anwar had sworn in God’s name” . The burden will be on Saiful again” Shmashul
In law there are two kinds of burden of proof. One that does not shift known as the legal burden of proof. The other is the evidential burden – which shifts like in a game of football.
Si-Fu swears by the Koran and the burden shifts to Anwar?. Which one? The legal burden of proof? This burden never shifts.
He who alleges must prove. The prosecutor alleges sodomy. He must prove it. He has the legal burden of proof. Failure to discharge this burden (the standard of which is the standard of proof beyond reasonable doubt) means the accused is not guilty.
Law of evidence 101.
#36 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 8:37 am
There are other means of going about discharging the evidential burden of proof. Anwar chooses not to do the same way. He has other ways. The fact that he declines to do Si-Fu’s way does not mean he is guilty!
Wakarimastaka?
#37 by djhampa on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 8:42 am
Shamsul Anuar says :
“The fact that Saiful swore shows that he is dead serious about his allegation. The fact that Anwar refuses to swear reflects that he understands the consequence of lying while swearing in God’s name.”
The fact that Saiful swore does not mean he was dead serious. One could also conclude that the fact he swore without collaborating facts showed a person who has no regard for the quran.
If swearing could be used to accuse someone than the entire syaria jurisprudence might as well be thrown out of the window.
The fact that some religious leaders are willing to sell their soul does not mean that they have the knowledge or the regard for the quran to offer any valuable and correct advice.
Perhaps it is time for you to wake up to the fact that not all muslims are good muslims. Even in the buku angel jesus said not all calling on his name will be saved. Narrow is the path to heaven and few will make it through.
#38 by KennyGan on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 8:45 am
“I must admit I am not a ustad or religious teacher who can comment on the act of swearing. But I look at it this way – Someone who makes a `Statutory Declaration’ like many have done is doing so because he believes he is right. Similarly, the act of swearing in God’s name, is only done by someone who is convinced that he is in the right”. – imranj78
But this is not true about swearing in God’s name. Go to the prison and ask the rapists, the murderers and robbers if they are willing to swear their innocence on their religion for freedom and I assure you 99% will happily do it. So does it prove that they are innocent?
Someone who swears an S.D. is more likely to be telling the truth. Making a false S.D. is liable to 7 years imprisonment and you will be punished in this world, not the next.
#39 by Godfather on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 9:00 am
Undergrad2, it is hopeless trying to impart logic to Shamshul Anuar. It’s the same as trying to argue logically with his boss Mike Tyson. The law does not apply to UMNO. The law is what UMNO says it is.
#40 by Bigjoe on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 9:16 am
You can smell the underhanded ways that BN/UMNO is going about this and the virtriol is virtually that of desperation.
1) The timing of Saiful swearing and the obvious holes in his answer even on the day of swearing.
2) UiTM students disporportionate response to a suggestion that even their hero Dr. M is saying good idea.
3) The highlighting of differences between PR component to the extent of outright rewriting of qoutes.
Let this campaign be one of measured response admist the euphoria of what is going to be a landslide. Its best to focus on Najib, KJ, IGP, AG which many Malays in the heartland already know have a tainted record in reality.
#41 by ahluck on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 9:24 am
Dr.M please don’t smell Anwars Ass! It will be very smelly!. please smell your own Ass for sodomising Malaysia for 22 years. Can you swear upon Quran that you did not sodomise Malaysia? That you wear fair to all Malaysians and that you did no corrupt practises and misuse you power? You Swear first before you ask Anwar. Just shut up and Taubat for all the wrong you did at this old age.
#42 by tiger88 on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 9:26 am
By right LKS should be PM. He has the brains to do so, but he is giving his full support to Anwar to be the PM. Such magnaminous man should be given a deputy PM at least. But in Malaysia, it is difficult to accept a non-Bumi to be at such high level. But if how Penang does it, Federal govt should not be different. Appoint other races as DPMs.
#43 by jus legitimum on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 9:32 am
Why must DSAI dance to the tune of the infamous and rotten regime for 51 years? Why should DSAI stoop so low to do what the ‘Fool’ did—to swear?
The Umno candidate only now exploits his chinese education background to win votes and beside pouring money into a few local chinese schools,they also praise the schools skyhigh.These idiots think the local chinese voters are also idiots like they all.
Have they forgotten the derogatory and racist slurs which they yelled during the recent Bar Council Forum?The PP chinese voters can never and will never forget ‘You babi china balik ke China’ swearing and cursing.They can also remember the racist policy of
closing the door of UiTM to everybody except bumi.
#44 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 9:38 am
It is strange when you want people to adjudge Anwar’s innocence or guilt based on (1) workings of a criminal justice system by charging him for consensual sodomy and at the same time for the Permatang Puah by election based on (2) Saiful’s swearing upon the Quran about being non-consensual sodomy by force and Anwar not having done so when (1) contradicts (2) in the sense that under (1) in which Saiful is star prosecution witness, it is a case of VOLUNTARY sodomy and under (2) it is a case of FORCED sodomy, such a major contradiction of which impairs Saiful’s credibility of whichever version whether based on (1) Quran or (2) the secular criminal justice system.
It is also inherently unfair to the person accused and confusing to the people doing the judging to subject a person to two entirely different and even contradictory systems of adjudgment, one based on (1) him swearing on the Quran and the other to (2) evidence of court (including forensics of DNA) and precepts of secular law (innocent until proven guilty beyond resonable doubt).
My point is that you can rely on either one but not two. If one believes in (1) then don’t proceed on (2). If one proceeds on (2) then don’t proceed on (1). It canot be the case one can proceed to incriminate a man (whether Anwar or anyone else) on both (1) and (2) depending whichever makes him look guiltier. This is subjecting a man to ‘double jeopardy’ (expression used in the loose and not legal sense).
Can’t speak for Anwar but to me it is a matter of principle and contrary of fair play and justice that I should not be subject to both (1) and (2) whichever make me look guiltier.
I would swear on a holy book if daring to do so you drop all charges. You can’t say – after I have sworn – oh we don’t believe you, we still want to proceed with the charge.
At the same time you proceed with the charge and fail to prove the charge and I am acquitted, am I supposed to be guilty then in the eyes of society since I have not sworn on the holy book that I am innocent?
#45 by cheng on on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 10:08 am
So, whenever, any person is accused of anything (got proof no proof), all must swear by their respective holy book n make Stat. Decl. In that case,almost all BN MPs, ministers, ADUNs, etc (past & present), all must swear and make Stat. Decl. ! then, This land will be also known as Malswearia. Commissioners of oaths also get good business. Unique practice and unique culture !
#46 by Jeffrey on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 10:09 am
If one believes that swearing on the holy book is testimony of the truth, then why not admit and recognise that testimony as conclusive evidence in court which if this is so the moment Anwar swears his innocence in mosque, the AG Dept should drop the charge. Oh yes I forget the Prosecutor can say Saiful also swore otherwise, that he was sodomised but he said he was sodomised by force, which is one reason why Prosecutor should drop the charge because the charge is based on consensual and not forced sodomy.
How can the State charge Anwar for consensual sodomy when its chief witness and complainant alleged otherewise that it was forced sodomy?
If the State has found no evidence of forced sodomy as alleged it should drop the charge rather than proceed in another way on its own based on consensual sodomy that the Complainant Saiful did not allege in the first place.
The decision to prosecute a person for a consensual offence based on a complainant’s allegations of a non consensual offence is arguably a wrongful exercise of prosecutorial discretion.
#47 by Bigjoe on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 10:11 am
I know this is not going to be worth much in Permatang Pauh but to Sdr. Lim readers, maybe it will make a difference. Let talk about what Permatang Pauh and what Annuar is about me, its about Eastern Europe.
I first when to Eastern Europe in the early 1990s. I went to countries like Romania, Czechoslovakia, Eastern Germany, Latvia, Poland and of course Russia. Those countries looked a mess then and Malaysia looked like heavan sent in comparison. Today, if you go and look again, those countries have surpassed us. Even war torn Bosnia-Hersogovenia, Serbia and Croatia looks more promising than us.
Anwar like to talk about Korea, Taiwan, HK and Singapore compared to us. That is old story. How is it that even is even a shorter time than the usual countries we talk about, another group of once more backward countries with less resources then us have risen and surpassed us over the last 10 years while our leaders are giving excuses. Does it take Zimbabwe to surpass us before we say we are not in good shape?
#48 by cheng on on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 10:15 am
Yes, well said Jeffrey ! Consensual or Non-consensual?? Please don’t create another mockery for Msia !
#49 by HJ Angus on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 10:39 am
I agree with Jeffrey’s succinct points.
It seems the authorities are bent on getting Anwar by any means possible.
http://malaysiawatch4.blogspot.com/2008/08/sodomy-so-much-effort-to-smear-anwar.html
#50 by pulau_sibu on Sunday, 17 August 2008 - 10:39 am
Bigjoe, I view Eastern Europe as different from us. These countries used to be very good, but was destroyed by the communism. Among those the big brother Soviet Union was a big bully. And even now, Russia wants to continue doing it. As the communism collapsed, these countries are moving back to their normal situation. By becoming part of EU, some of the Eastern European countries got a lot of financial and economical helps. Investment went into these countries, just like in China and the rising Vietnam in Asia. I think if investment will pour in to Malaysia, it will be a great improvement for us. In fact, our communism (NEP) has discouraged many investors from coming in. Our countries might have a lot of money, but several percentages of all projects went to some body. And at the end, the people remained poor.