[News Flash 2 at 10.02 am: A few minutes ago, a woman participant went up to the floor mike defending the forum, but was met by shouts by protestors demanding the immediate end of the forum - forcing Bar Council President Ambiga Sreenevasan to announce its closure.]
[Flash - Just informed that police accompanied a few of the protestors into the forum to observe proceedings, five minutes before the forum is to have abrupt end at 10 am.]
The Bar Council half-day forum on conversion to Islam is going on now at its auditorium in Kuala Lumpur – in the face of a crowd of protestors outside bearing slogans and chanting Arabic verses and demanding the immediate cancellation of the forum.
It is a test whether Malaysia is shaping up to be a more civil society where sensitive issues of inter-faith problems can be discussed in a mature and responsible manner to promote national unity and religious harmony in the country.
The Police wants the forum to end by 10 am because of the protests.
As stated by the Bar Council Vice President Ragunath Kesavan, the Bar Council forum on religious conversion is to address the conflicts of laws facing families caught between the separate jurisdictions of civil and syariah laws.
It is not to question the provisions of Article 121(1a) of the Constitution, which conferred syariah jurisdiction over Muslims.
This is the New Straits Times report today on Ragunathan explanation:
While recognising and respecting Article 121(1a), Ragunath said it was unjust to compel anyone to be subjected to laws and courts based on a religion that the person did not profess.
He said the council was “troubled” by the continuing calls from certain quarters that the forum be cancelled.
Claims that the forum would create misunderstanding, anger and tension were in stark contrast with the government’s assurances of more dialogue, Ragunath said.
“The forum is not about conversion per se as the council endorses the absolute right of individuals to embrace Islam.
“Instead, the forum will address the ancillary issues that arise from such situations and will emphasise the need for laws, and a judicial system, that protects everyone equally.
“It is the continued suppression of open and respectful discourse, not public forums, that will cause tension and jeopardise national unity.
“We are taking the necessary precautions to ensure that the dialogue takes place in a controlled and constructive manner, by holding the forum in a closed setting and requiring participants to register for the event.”
I have received the following SMSes from CC Goh who is at the forum:
“The crowd came forward across again. Demanding Ambiga to go down. Shouting louder. Inside a testimony about conversion of a father by the daughter.”
“The crowd continues to chant slogan. Not trying to breach police line.”
“Ambiga just came up to say police ask to wrap up by 10 because of security reason.”
Hope the Bar Council forum will not end up as another APCET II 12 years ago in November 1996.
#1 by AhPek on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 12:59 pm
It is clearcut that the Police is absulutely partial when it comes to matters dealing with rights of non-Malays who are obviously marginalised and religious matters.You tell me,Mr. Big Police IGP,how come you prepared your police force with water bombs and tear gas when Hindraf has declared publicly that they are going peacefully to present their petition to the British High Commission and not only do nothing when Muslim fanatics warn of tension and anger if a forum by Bar Council on religious conversion addressing the conflicts of laws facing families caught between the separate jurisdictions of civil and syariah laws but also helped them by telling the organiser to end the forum by 10am.How glaringly clear is your participation in siding with the fanatics!! You tell us you can’t deal with the 300 MUSLIMS whereas you don’t find it difficult at all dealing with the 10,000 Hindraf people.Go on, keep spinning to everybody here and world wide that all you are doing is to keep the peace.You are doing a ‘marvellous’ job I must say.
#2 by dawsheng on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 1:05 pm
We have an incompetent Bar Council to start with, if lawyers fought in court and upheld justice according to our constitutional rights, then it will be most unlikely that the non-muslims, converted and vice versa or whatever the case, are facing religious persecution in the court of law.
#3 by AhPek on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 1:05 pm
Correction: “……………………tension and anger if a forum by the Bar Council………………………..separate jurisdictions of civil and syariah laws is to be held but also helped them ……………………………………………………….”.
#4 by justiciary on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 1:12 pm
What is so great about that religion when their followers can kill numerous innocent people around them when they kill themselves by stupidly and selfishly committing suicide bombings?
What is so great about that religion when their followers are national wealth squanderers through abuse of power and corruption?
What is so great about that religion when their followers are hypocrites when they do not practise what they preach?
What is so great about that religion when their followers can be polygamous and shamelessly commit incest?
What is so great about that religion when their followers can plant bombs everywhere and cause bloodshed in many parts of the world?
Just ponder.
#5 by Rose Fashion on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 1:14 pm
Please mind your word, the one called himself “Godfather” in this blog. UMNO can sue you for defamation if they want to and you better bear the consequence when the time comes.
#6 by gofortruth on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 1:17 pm
Police could deal with 10000 Hindraf people but can’t contain 300 muslims – religion in the hands of politician is deadly.
There is a time for everything and this is clearly not the right time to discuss such lest we allow BN a foothold to rock the young PR coalition. Believe me, religious issues will be here for a long time to come. This can wait.
I say better channel every effort to win PP, that, cannot wait!
Bar council, any idea why we hear nothing about Lingam case?
#7 by Lee Wang Yen on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 1:19 pm
Sadly, with UMNO and PAS, we stand between the devil and the deep blue sea.
One is, as Godfather aptly puts it, ‘a bunch of thieves, liars and cheats’, who are openly and unapologetically racist. The other is a bunch of religious fanatics, who have been increasingly revealing their deep-seated racism, as we see in the the so-called Malay-unity talk.
Anwar’s ‘ketuanan rakyat’ and DAP’s ‘Malaysia first’ are our only hope.
By the way, Ezam’s statement of his reasons of leaving PKR and PAS’s betrayal of PR in their unity talk with UMNO have given me more reasons to support Anwar. Anwar seems to have insisted on his policy of racial and religious equality in a way that has offended those who hold on to Malay dominance (e.g. Ezam) and Islamic supremacy. When news about the unity talk broke, PAS was quick to remind Anwar that they were the kingmaker. This shows that PAS must have been very unhappy about the fact that Anwar has marginalised PAS in PR. Given PAS’s extremist position, it is only right for Anwar to marginalise PAS, as this is essential to the upholding of PR’s core values.
#8 by limkamput on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 1:21 pm
Dawsheng,
At least the BAR Council has tried to confront and resolve the issue. Is there any particular political party attempting to do the same? How can you condemn the BAR council for their failure in court. It is whole judiciary system – the judges, the public prosecutors, the religious department, the Parliament and the Constitution, [deleted]
#9 by gundam on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 1:28 pm
dear ahliew,
it is not for us to judge if a religion is good or bad simply based on the act of some confused believers.
there are good followers, there are bad followers in every religion.
there are good people, there are bad people wherever you go.
#10 by gundam on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 1:44 pm
dear houndy,
half-baked or great ideas do not speak louder than actions.
so [deleted] go out and do something for the benefit of mankind.
grumbling here would not make any difference to ur days.
#11 by dawsheng on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 1:45 pm
With due respect Mr Lim, in my opinion the Bar council has lost its sense of priority, and for that reason rendered its existence completely meaningless. At this juncture, any lawyer doing some thinking in his head should know the most critical issues needed the urgency to be resolve are the independence of the judiciary and the police, abuses of power by the executive, why aren’t there any forums addressing these issues? The Bar Council’s decision to hold this forum on Islam conversion at this very moment, generates more questions then answer but not solution. I view it as a political ploy to whip up religious sentiments, which is already half succeed.
#12 by drmaharajahrk on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 1:46 pm
give Muslims a chance to vote for an Islamic state.
UMNO and PAS – Islamic and Malay fanatics
PKR,DAP,MCA,MIC,PPP, GERAKAN – Moderate politicians
go for elections in the above scenario….if UMNO/PAS win – we accept Islamic state and hudud laws, if moderate , open minded coalition wins we throw these militants to probably Afganistan/ Pakistan or Iran and Iraq
#13 by gundam on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 1:52 pm
dear dawsheng,
we cant be sure if it’s a mr/mrs/ms or something in between or not even mankind at all judging from ‘its’ behavior.
#14 by dawsheng on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 1:53 pm
It will be prudent for opposition politicians to pause and think, whether or not certain institution under its present leadership and the issues it addresses, are worthy of their political backing.
#15 by drmaharajahrk on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 1:58 pm
Lim Kit Siang,
never tell me to ” Vote any opposition ” anymore
PAS should be kicked out of Pakatan, the sooner the better !~
#16 by limkamput on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 1:59 pm
Dawsheng, and may I know the motive of them (the council) doing so – i.e to whip up the religious sentiments? BAR council is not a political party, or is it? Please be fair, that is all. If the council did nothing on the present impasse, I think many would criticise them also. The main issue is why can’t Malaysians sit down to discuss things that are of importance to them. Why must one party defiantly oppose others’ rights to discuss issues that affect them? If there was no disruption this morning, don’t you think the council was able to achieve a little this morning.
#17 by limkamput on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:02 pm
we cant be sure if it’s a mr/mrs/ms or something in between or not even mankind at all judging from ‘its’ behavior.Gundam
Who are you talking about here, is it you? I don’t want to be too presumptuous. By now and at your ripe old age, you should who you are!
#18 by dawsheng on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:07 pm
The issue of Islam conversion became an issue is due to the manifestation of failure in the system of judiciary, which is the root cause of all problems. Why has the Bar council kept its elegant silence on the root cause of all problems?
#19 by limkamput on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:08 pm
Political expediency just simply cannot work, damn it. After 50 years’ of inculcation and indoctrination, every one is a fcuking racist in this country.
#20 by dawsheng on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:10 pm
Why not have a forum on article 377A, B and C?
#21 by limkamput on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:10 pm
Dawsheng, didn’t the bar council is trying to do something now? You should know by now the failure of the judiciary system is NOT the doing of the council, please.
#22 by limkamput on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:13 pm
dawsheng Says:Why not have a forum on article 377A, B and C?
Why not, if time is suitable. Look Dawsheng, unless you are privy to something that i don’t know, i think it is not right to condemn the Bar council.
#23 by gundam on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:15 pm
tat’s right, im talking abt u, houndy.
well, im really nt in a position to whack ‘something’ in a public forum, pardon me if u r offended, but i believe as ‘something’ with a conscience, u deserve some lessons in public manner. i shall continue to do it anyway whenever i find tat u r talking cock again and no actions.
again, if u r an opposition supporter too, i do welcome some respect to ur fellow comrades here.
#24 by dawsheng on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:16 pm
I have said my piece, now I leave this thread to those who like PAS and Islam bashing.
#25 by sani on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:21 pm
YB Lim
“i might not subscript to what you believe, but i will defend to my death your right to.”
Many thanxs for your many years of service to Bangsa + Negara. You are a giant of a man.
#26 by limkamput on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:24 pm
Apologist, the feeling is mutual. Don’t worry. Part of my “job” is to circle half baked cock ideas and chop them. We come here to criticise and be criticised, pure and simple. I love doing my “job”. In fact I have neglected lately my duty due to constant harassment by “prim and proper” people like you.
#27 by gundam on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:32 pm
lovely hound,
i dun come here to criticize, im here to share and learn.
we dun need another teacher here, didnt ur pastor tell u tat during service?
now, stop acting like grumpy old man and ur job might be more appropriate and appreciated.
#28 by hiro on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:32 pm
I am particularly concerned that the leaders of the protestors, as reported by Malaysiakini, are from PKR and PAS. Did they have sanction from Anwar and Hadi Awang? If they did, this does not bode well for Pakatan.
#29 by badak on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:39 pm
Muslims around the world are forcing their view unto others,Just like the christians not to long ago.Most wars in the world are fought because of religion.
On one hand they say my god is good and forgiving.My religion is good and righteous.Only my good and religion can bring you heaven.
Next thing you know this same people are blowing innocent people up.In the name of their god.Im talking about all known religion we have today. I believe that GOD DID NOT MADE MEN … BUT IT WAS MAN WHO MADE GOD.Anything bad that happens and can,t be explain ,GOD WILL BE BLAMED FOR IT.SAMY,s famous saying. “”GOD BLAME IT ON GOD”"
#30 by Godfather on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:40 pm
Rose Fashion,
I tremble when I warned by UMNO. I tremble when UMNO wants to take legal action. UMNO thinks it will alway win because UMNO controls the judiciary. Truth is I tremble because UMNO is an expert at fabricating evidence or demolishing evidence. Another warning from you and Kasim Amat, and I will probably pee in my pants.
#31 by Richardqed on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:44 pm
“Even the forum is permitted by authorities, police has a duty to keep the order in place and if they found that the forum has gone too far and provoked racial sensitive issues, they have the rights to demand it to end.”
Kasim,
Don’t twist and turn the topics. You know none of this is about Malay or Muslim rights, which remain safe and protected. You are just interested in maintaining Umnoputra rights to continue to steal from the rakyat (including the poor Malays in the streets who didn’t even get one bit of benefit from the NEP, and who have been conned for so long by your bosses). Stop being a bloody hypocrite.
When Kera Jantan led protests in the streets against the US secretary of state, where was the police?
#32 by limkamput on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:44 pm
Apologist, share and learn? How can you share when you are not prepared to listen whatever you shared with others make sense? How can you learn when you are not prepared to be criticised. How can we share and learn if we do not act like teachers and students.
I may be old, but may be not older than you. I may be grumpy, but may be not as nauseating as you.
#33 by Godfather on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:45 pm
But after having been sodomized by UMNO for the past 30 years, I don’t really care if you want to take me to court. …
#34 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:47 pm
According to Malaysiakini report Aug 9, 08 9:41am : “A leader of the protesters – PKR Kulim-Bandar Baharu parliamentarian Zulkifli Noordin – declared the abrupt end of the forum as a victory for them….Many of the protesters are from Muslim welfare organsation Perkida and Islamic party PAS. Among the protest leaders seen in the crowd are PAS Youth chief Salahuddin Ayub and Zulkifli.”
Sometime back before Bar Council’s forum (but after 8th March 2008 and the spectacular gains by Paktan Rakyat):-
· Deputy Mentri Besar Datuk Ahmad Yaakob said that PAS should be the backbone of Pakatan Rakyat if it wanted to realise its dream of establishing an Islamic state;
· PAS Youth proposed to implement the Islamic administrative systemin Pakatan Rakyat states;
· PAS had talks with Umno to form a coalition government in Selangor “in the name of Malay unity”;
· Selangor PAS Youth movement submitted a memorandum to the Selangor Mentri Besar’s office to protest against plans to have Malaysia rock queen Ella and dangdut singer Mas Idayu perform at the Sultan of Selangor Cup on July 6;
· PAS secretary-general (to read as deputy president) Nasharudin Mat Isa stated that the Malays were beginning to believe the sodomy allegations against Anwar Ibrahim;
· PAS spiritual leader Datuk Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat suggested that UMNO and PAS be dissolved and a new party formed to unite all Malays, and thereafter hudud and Qisas be implemented at Federal level,
all of which contradict the spirit if not letter of Pakatan Rakyat’s common manifesto in the last general election of 8th March 2008.
So the Question is: As many non-PAS members — Malays, Chinese and Indians included — voted for Pakatan Rakyat on 8th March 2008 premise that Pakatan Rakyat was for multiracialism & multiculturism without religious extremism, what is the response of Pakatan Rakyat (top echelon)’s response to all the above cited incidents including today’s some members of PKR & PAS seeking to silence the Bar Council’s forum on ‘Conversion to Islam? Could Pakatan Rakyat criticise the law enforcement for ‘siding’ protestors against the Bar Council when its own members play prominent part in the protests? Is Pakatan Rakyat going to be used by PAS to win power in order to establish the pure Islamic state?
#35 by gundam on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 2:51 pm
houndy,
u mst be patient. everyone has his/her own views to share whether it’s of wise or unwise. let us share and let no one be the ‘judge’ here.
u need to be more humble.
criticize we may, calling names we shall not especially when i dun find ur comments to be intelligent and useful but a bunch of rhetorics from reading too much.
i challenge u to put ur words into practice.
#36 by melurian on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 3:01 pm
pas already controlled kelantan for decades, and recently kedah. ppl always say kelantan is good, even RPK supported this (his fav quote – have you been to kelantan!), only gov controlled media twisted and painted different picture on kelantan. and pas always says cina and india happy in kelantan.
so why worry on turning the whole country into kelantan. those pas dissidents should open mind and try to accept pas, maybe they can turn malaysia into better place – a country like kelantan.
ppl always say good about singapura, but why not about kelantan. why not compare kl management style with kelantan, where the latter turned from poorest state before the place’s taken over by sabah and t’gannu. and kelantan did it without federal contribution! imagine kl to run like kelantan, we may turn into richest country in SEA, beating sgpura….
#37 by chiakchua on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 3:03 pm
Shame on us! We have 2 sect of extremist; racial and religious. Both are groomed by UMNOputras over the past decades. They used these 2 tactics to divide and rule the rakyat to safeguard their position and wealth. PKR just couldn’t make an abrupt turn. It will take time but there has to be a starting point. Islam is a great religion but not majority of the followers in Malaysia! They are misusing the name of RELIGION to pressure/threaten the non-Muslims. The country has to go for broke to learn the lesson and rebuild from scratch!
BN, especially MCA and MIC must also take the blame for allowing the UMNOputras to turn the country into the current situation.
#38 by antiracist on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 3:07 pm
YB LKS ang friends,
i’m muslim, but not expert as ulama. But Can you think what happen when govt want to abolish chinese and indian school ? Do you agree wth that ? govt want change math and science in english ? do you agree ? BUT when malay said ketuanan melayu you said extremist, when we defend islam u said extremist, when we try to protect bahasa melayu, we racist. SO the only rigat people for DAP is chinese coz they tertindas. What about malays yang miskin ? tak tertindas. Fikir la betul-betul.
Islam is not like others religious in practice BUT in positive value i think same. If u want to convert to islam it not just Mengucap and potong. It’s more than that? Do you study Islam with the right person or the the right source ? Can you easily discuss about ISlam ? NO, you must have the expert of islamic law. Like what TGNA in PAS said. We must discuss the right thing.
LU FIKIR LA SENDIRI. JIKA ANDA TIDAK MAHU ORANG LAIN MARAHKAN ANDA JANGAN BUAT ORANG LAIN MARAHKAN ANDA DAN ANDA MARAH ORANG ITU SEBAB SILAP FAHAM. NONSENCE LA DAP.
#39 by Freddy on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 3:08 pm
quote jus legitimum:
#regards burning hell notes during this Hungry Ghost Festival#
“This superstitious practice is obsolete and is only carried out by very old and mainly uneducated people.”
===
OMG! I didn’t know there are still so many uneducated people in Malaysia! I see them everywhere celebrating in large scales and burning away hell notes like hell. Strangelah. If this ‘superstitious practice’ is obsolete, why I still see it today …. especially so when comes the first and fifteenth of every lunar month …. but since this is Malaysia and is claimed to be represented by MCA, I take your word for it that in spite of the huge number of Chinese practising this OBSOLETE thingy, they are all either old or uneducated. Maybe we do have another problem unaddressed here huh? Wow … uneducated Chinese practising an obsolete thingy burning hell notes …. hahahahaha I’ve just gotta poke fun at those engineers and the such …. hahaha
=====
AhLiew says:
‘This issue is never a taboo for Chinese. We discuss, and some dispute it, openly on news paper. No tujuk perasaan so far.’
===
So far no tunjuk perasaan mainly because the discussion is still confined to the Chinese. Just imagine the other races and religions discuss them in a big way …. hmmmm… just imagine … for starter …. the Christians Chinese coming out to condemn them who burn hell notes openly and publicly followed by the Hindus and finally the Muslims ….
All I can say is this … to each his own religion and keep it to himself. To embrace a religion, wouldn’t it be best to know what it’s all about in the first place?
#40 by limkamput on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 3:14 pm
when i dun find ur comments to be intelligent and useful but a bunch of rhetorics from reading too much.
i challenge u to put ur words into practice. gundam
look, u shd seriously apply the advice that you gave to yourself. Do you think some of PR MPs and Aduns have great contributions?
#41 by limkamput on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 3:15 pm
sorry repost, mistake: Do you think some of PR MPs and Aduns have made great contributions?
#42 by Freddy on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 3:16 pm
as a matter of fact, just a thot here …
i mentioned i saw a post in a blog by one of DAP’s elected rep regarding the burning of hell notes in this Hungry Ghost Festival. that posting has since been removed after i voiced by disagreement.
as a suggestion, will the DAP rep concerned please reinstate that posting in its original so that it can be up for discussions by ALL??
we shall then be able to gauge the hostility of open debate when it comes to any religion…. especially the heat generated from those under condemnation…
RELIGION DIVIDES!!!! hahahahaha
#43 by year of snake on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 3:24 pm
People of other religions can be converted to Islam but Muslims cannot be converted to other religions or they will be ostracized or worse maybe killed. Muslims can critize or make fun of other religions but if anything negative is said on theirs they will issue a fatwa to have you killed. It is like the cantonese phrase “You are the only good person and everybody else is bad”
#44 by gundam on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 3:27 pm
hound,
let me reiterate, u mst be patient.
each person has his/her role to play, u do not expect everyone to be great contributor.
also we mst nt proclaim ourself to be righteous and wiser over others.
anyone who is not a destroyer is a contributor in some way or another.
#45 by limkamput on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 3:32 pm
anyone who is not a destroyer is a contributor in some way or another. gundam
Disagree. In a public forum, stupid ideas must be challenged. Otherwise, they influence others. I know what you are going to say – let others judge on their own. Not so simple, some get influenced. A good idea should be able to withstand challenge and debate.
#46 by Freddy on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 3:48 pm
Jeffrey says: So the Question is: As many non-PAS members — Malays, Chinese and Indians included — voted for Pakatan Rakyat on 8th March 2008 premise that Pakatan Rakyat was for multiracialism & multiculturism without religious extremism,…
First of all Jeffrey, Jeff Ooi conducted a poll and a good number of respondents polled said that ‘they voted against the BN out of anger’ or something to this effect. Therefore, let’s not take for granted that ALL the votes for the opposition (now PR) is for multiracialism and multiculturism. With tainted leadership in all of BN, PR will love it dearly to have Bodowi to helm BN and then passes the baton to Najis. Imagine if there’s some kind of ‘upset’ in UMNO and someone else like perhaps Tengku Razaleigh takes over …. I think with that change, the sentiments of voters will likely change too.
PR has less than 5 years to prove its worth. Time is short and don’t forget that to the people, it will be back to bread and butter issues come next general election. March 8 was basically a Barang Naik issue compounded by anger. Let’s not deceive ourselves that PR won because of voters’ genuine support.
Take a look at what’s happening today … PR is on the brink of collapse! Distrust is appearing from all angles. Today’s forum by the BRA Council ain’t helping. Oh yes … it is BRA council!
With such tempo, If I were Bodowi, I will be able to manage a wide grin from ear to ear!
#47 by gundam on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 3:54 pm
houndy,
u should reflect on urself whether u r truly the destroyer here.
due to ur condemnation, some ppl might feel timid to voice out their opinions and it’s due to ur influence.
now who r u to judge wat’s ‘stupid’?
u may not agree with ppl, tat’s totally fine. but it is not ur right or ‘duty’ to call other stupid as it only shows ur shallowness and intolerance.
ur behaviour truly reminded me of those protestors outside the half-day bar council forum today.
do not argue for the sake of arguing onli. we should instead garner the support of everyone, regardless of their intelligence to focus on how to win over the government.
#48 by gundam on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 4:06 pm
and hound, tis is not a debating nor ur forum, it’s a public forum to allow free flow of opinions and ideas from everyone/anything.
so do not harass and curse someone when their comments are not to ur liking. u mst really learn the meaning of humbleness again.
#49 by kanthanboy on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 4:22 pm
//..The Bar Council’s decision to hold this forum on Islam conversion at this very moment, generates more questions than answer..//
dawsheng, I am with you.
If one is only outwardly a Muslim, Christian, Buddhist or of any other religions it really doesn’t matter whether you are officially allowed to change your religion or not. What really count is the conversion of the heart, mind and spirit.
#50 by badak on Saturday, 9 August 2008 - 4:24 pm
If given a chance Many MALAYS will renouce their religion.If given a chance 99% will want to Marry a muslim without converting to ISLAM.
If a person falls in love with a muslim,He falls in love with that person and not his or her religion.
Is islam such a fragile religion that,even talking about other religion to a muslim is a taboo. If you are not a muslim you are not allowed to discuss islam.