Lets have the worst cases of the agony of foreign spouses of Malaysians to get PR (permanent residence) status, so that Parliament and the government can hear about them – with the Home Minister having to respond as well.
You can either write on this blog or email me.
A long-suffering foreign spouse has emailed her views and suggestions, which I am sharing here:
CURRENT SITUATION:
Visa rules
There are thousands of foreign spouses who are on Dependent or Employment visas renewable until last year on a yearly basis.
However since 2007, spouses are able to renew their visas for upto 5 years.
(Most often we cannot afford to pay the visa charges for 5 years at one time)
Spouses do not get Permanent Resident status even after spending more than 15 years in the country and we have Malaysian school going children.
Application for Permanent Resident Status
We have to separately put in our application for Permanent Resident Status. I took with me one full suitcase of documents, they even require a wedding invitation – how many of you have kept your wedding invitations for 16 years??
Immigration officers are still uncertain as to where foreign spouses should apply for their PR status. Federal or State?
After applying for PR status it still takes years for the approval to come through.
Employment
Foreign spouses are only permitted to work on a spouse visa a very elegant term (with due apologies) for the “employment pass” and only with companies having a paid up capital of 200K and above. There is a lot of documentation to be provided which would put off any employer.
Foreign Spouses on Spouse Visa whose income is not taxable have to pay a Levy.
I have paid levy of up to RM4000 per annum.
It may be that it is also easier and less procedural for expatriates to get an employment pass than spouses of Malaysian citizens.
SUGGESTED RECOMMENDATIONS
To ease and better manage the vast number of foreign spouses in the country.
Visa Rules
A reasonable wait for foreign spouses to get their Permanent Resident Status would be a two year period, after marriage. This would be very much in line with our neighbour Singapore and other modern democracies such as UK, USA and Australia.
Permanent Resident Approval
Upon completion of two years marriage and stay in the country, the Immigration authorities should verify details of marriage and stay in the country and offer PR status to the Spouses.
Employment
Foreign spouses should be allowed to work, without having to seek an employment pass/spouse work permit.
Foreign Spouses should be allowed to work in any company irrespective of the paid up capital, as such rules only serve to restrict their employment opportunities.
There is a cooling off period of six months when jobs are changed should be waived. This is really uncalled for, to be treated like foreign maids. Six months is a long time for us to remain unemployed – this should be done away with.
Do away with some of the humiliating rules.
Over stay
If for some reason we miss the date of renewal of visas, we are deemed to have overstayed, well how can we overstay in our own home? To add insult to injury we have to pay summons for overstaying in our own home.
Long Wait
For 16 years, I have been subjected to demeaning rules such as my Malaysian husband having to accompany me when I go to renew my visa. It is acceptable for us to do this for one of two years, but for 16 years, it is degrading.
Marriage Search
When I changed employers I was asked to provide a Marriage Search, little did I know that such a thing existed?
Malaysia My Second Home
Right now priority is given for PR status to applicants of ” Malaysia My Second Home”, possibly because this is revenue earning, however shouldn’t due consideration be assigned to Spouses of Malaysian citizens who in effect have made Malaysia their home.
Opening Individual Bank Accounts
Foreign Spouses Housewives unable to open a bank account with some of the Banks, are often asked to open joint accounts with husbands.
Foreigners are required by banks to produce either a letter from their educational institution if they are students or their employer if there are expatriate employees. So housewives get left out.
Double charges in Hospitals for foreigners, is there some way that spouses can get exemption?
Now we cannot even collect the rebate for the petrol hike. Our cars are used to ferry our Malaysian school going kids.
Spouses with Marital difficulties
Furthermore, Spouses who have marital problems, after 10-15 years in the country are put through unimaginable trauma, when sometimes they even have to leave the country without being able to extend their visa, without the custody of their children.
Most of these spouses cannot afford legal fees and their cases are not highlighted.
Option for Citizenship
There should also be an option for citizenship.
The law in other countries
What needs immediate attention is the immigration law itself for spouses of citizens. Today in countries such as UK, USA, Australia and nearer home in Singapore, no more than 2 years of living together is required to secure PR status – marriage is not even a necessity in these countries.
Immigration Act, Procedures
I have browsed through the Immigration Act, however I could not find any references to foreign spouses.
Immigration procedures for foreign spouses change at an astonishing speed, only making it more difficult for them.
The procedures change from Putra Jaya to Damansara, from officer to officer.
In 1992 I was told that I could only apply for PR if I resided in the country for 5 years.
In Year 1997 I was told that I could not apply for PR status as I was on an employment pass and not a dependent pass.
Then I was told to go to Shah Alam, when I went there I was told that my husband’s residence is in Perak, then I was further pushed away and told to go to Damansara, who told me go to state. Until today, no one seems to know the rule as to where the submission for application of PR could be made.
Finally I was able to submit my application in Pusat Damansara in August 2007.
Now I have been told that the rules have changed and spouses who have children who are below 6 years can apply, after being given a run around for 15 years, I cannot reduce the ages of my children who are 14 and 9 years of age.
BENEFITS TO THE NATION
Highly Qualified Professional Spouses
This will also be beneficial to the nation as many spouses are highly qualified and are seeking the employment market. Overseas spouses have even indicated that they are willing to return should it be easier to gain employment.
Good Governance and Best practise for Spouses augur wells for the community, the law makers and the Nation.
What do you think?
#1 by i_love_malaysia on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 5:09 pm
We can give suggestions, recommendations, benefits etc , BUT it just wont work for these incompetent govt officials to comprehent, who only know how to judge a person by skin colour and religion. Their thinking is that other than their own kinds, others must be spies or to come to rob our country!!! Unless you are pumping in few hundreds thousands ringgits to show that you are bringing in money and not going to work, may be they will allow you to stay!!!
#2 by cheng on soo on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 5:09 pm
Must be one of the very few countries in this world to have the most inhumane, unreasonable, moronic immig rules on foreign spouse. Only a govt of such character / quality can have such stupid rules.
#3 by Kathy on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 5:37 pm
That is why Singapore is getting the human capital that they require via their PR policy – fast and efficient. We always lament that we do not have the right intellectual human capital to take us further and better but our immigration policies do not permit such ideals.
It is bias and outdated. Too bad for Malaysia but great for Singapore and the likes.
#4 by lakilompat on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 5:38 pm
They are lazy to tackle all these. It is better to slumber in their luxurious car and personal jet than think too much on this. At the end of the day, Dollar will asked, “Mengapa boleh jadi begini?” Tak da duit Tak yah buat la!”
Enjoy life is more comfortable.
#5 by boh-liao on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 5:45 pm
On the shore, beyond the tropical sea
You will stand to welcome me
On the shore, beneath the sky so blue
All my dreams at last will come true …..
la la la la la …..
‘Oh Malaysia’ sounds so sweet, right? Really? Truly?
#6 by ShiokGuy on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 5:54 pm
How come the Indonesia and filipina and filipino can get the PR or even citizenship easily? Based on what?
1. Race? Filipino and Indo is better than Chinese or Japanese?
2. Skill? How come a qualify QA cannot get PR? She is from HK.
3. Religion? hmmm ,,, what do you think?
This is sick!
http://shiokguy.blogspot.com/2008/06/massive-op-to-flush-out-sabahs-illegal.html
To flush out my A&^&***, they need all those Legalized Illegal sucker to stay on power!
Shiok Guy
#7 by bystander on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 5:57 pm
these UMNO racists have no sympathy for foreigners. they all suffered from xenophobia.but they like to sc–w you and dump you preferably with c4. they always complain about the west but they themselves are worse.
#8 by badak on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 6:09 pm
Why marry foreign people .Malaysian not good ahhhh…If still want marry to foreigner no problem .. Kasi wang lah…. semua kautim.
#9 by madmix on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 6:09 pm
This is how Bernama view immigrants:
NEW YORK CITY, Fri.:
Stories abound over the achievements of Asian students in American universities.
Last month, 13-year-old child prodigy Sameer Mishra from India stunned the American nation by winning the 2008 Scripps National Spelling Bee competition in Washington.
Today, it is a Malaysian girl’s turn to bag a rare distinction.
Dashini Jeyathurai, 24, from Johor Baru, has been selected as one of two students out of the 30 bright students who auditioned for delivering the valediction speech on “Disorienting Dilemmas: Getting an Education.”
Sameer Mishra according to Bernama is from India; he is actually an American, his parents having migrated to the USA years ago. His is an American of Indian origin.
Dashini according to Bernama is Malaysian; but using the same line of thinking as that used for Sameer, she is from India! When someone is a high achiever, she is Malaysian; when he is a loser..?
#10 by pinkdolphin on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 6:12 pm
My dearest YB Kit, thank you very much for pursuing this issue. We are so desperate for a change in such unreasonable and inefficient so-called ‘system’ we have now under this gov.. they are all massively screwed up! Good luck everybody!
#11 by shaxx on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 6:25 pm
I am sorry to read that some replies talk about the link of race and religion as well as country of origin to getting your PR status. I think that is really uncalled for since I am a Malay and married to an Indonesian and yet we do not get any special treatment as what some of you think up there…
Anyway, I have heard lots of this horror stories. I have no idea how to even get the 5 year visa for my wife as the last renewal is still up to 1 year only.
It is sad that our government does not regard foreign spouses as part of us in this country. The government prefers those who bring in money and they would be given priority. Those who are legally married, have children are simply at the bottom most of their consideration.
I hope that somebody can push this to the parliament and have things changed so that foreign spouses can be treated with more dignity and respect as compared to other developed nations out there!
Thank you for putting this up Mr. Lim!
#12 by indyjones on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 7:24 pm
I’m a foreign spouse living here in Malaysia 12 years now. I believe I have now earned the right to apply for PR, that is if the rules don’t change again. At this juncture, I don’t believe I will see a PR until I am old and grey. (If I am so lucky). I read in the paper last year that one foreigner was only granted PR on his death bed. Maybe I have to wait for that before they will give it to me. In the future, I only hope my husband doesn’t die first, or I do not know what will become of me and my Malaysian daughter then! What if she is still a minor and unable to care for herself? I honestly try not to think about this, as I would become very stressed and worried.
I had great hope when PR took 1/3 the parliament seats and added 4 more states that some day soon, there might be fair rules for us to get PR. However, I don’t believe that will happen until PR takes the Fed. Gov. And even then there are so many things that need to be corrected and sorted out that I imagine it might be another several years before they get around to our problems. After all, I am not suffering nearly as bad as the Burmese refugee who is harrassed and hounded day and night by Rela. Then, eventually caught, separated from his/her family, thrown into the dention camp, beaten, abused and eventually sold into slavery at the Thai border by immigration officials or Rela members to human traffickers. I am also not a true resident of Sabah or Sarawak who must face becoming a minority in my own homeland due to the hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants who have been handed ICs so that votes can go to BN. I imagine that I might be pretty low on the list of priorities when there is a change in the fed. gov.
I know you have said you will bring these things up to the Minister of Home Affairs, but I doubt that he will do anything about it and that he even cares about what happens to us. Our plight is no secret and nothing has been done all these years. If he doesn’t care about the trauma of the Burmese refugee and the abuse the Sahbahns and Sarawakians have suffered, he surely will not care about foreign spouses. The devil has more heart than this man and his BN compatriots in office.
Even though I do not think this man or his party will lift a finger to help in even the most pressing issues of abuse, I am glad you will continue to pursue this issue with the ministry. Please remember the plight of all foreigners (not just the foreign spouses) here when you and your party come to power. We are all still waiting with hope!
#13 by k1980 on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 9:15 pm
Under Pok Kai Lah, PRs will only be issued to foreign spouses when they masuk islam or masuk kubur, whichever comes first
#14 by undergrad2 on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 9:19 pm
“I am sorry to read that some replies talk about the link of race and religion as well as country of origin to getting your PR status. I think that is really uncalled for …” shaxx
Uncalled for?? Try this! My father was a Christian, lived in Malaysia for some 20 years and was asked at the interview by an immigration officer if he would like to be a Muslim and change his name? 10 years later, there is still no news.
#15 by undergrad2 on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 9:20 pm
ooops make that “father-in-law” thanks
#16 by undergrad2 on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 9:29 pm
The BN government has been working towards changing the country’s demographics and secure election victories in that way and by doing so ensure the perpetuation of its racist policies. Nowhere than in Sabah has the issue of demographics become instead the election issue rather than just “a process”.
#17 by undergrad2 on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 9:45 pm
“I have no idea how to even get the 5 year visa for my wife as the last renewal is still up to 1 year only.” shaxx
Your wife is married to a Malaysian citizen and by virtue of her marriage to you, she should be a Malaysian permanent resident after a few short years. No one can take that away from your wife. How is it that you need to apply for a visa for her??
#18 by undergrad2 on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 9:55 pm
I have been approached by Malay women married to foreign spouses who face problems in adjusting the status of their spouses to PR. I do not see the rationale here. Why the discrimination along gender lines? The reason given was that there are a lot of sham marriages involving Malaysian women and their male foreign spouses, and that women are an easy target. What kind of reason is that??
This is something Kit could take up in Parliament and be rest assured that it would attract nonpartisan support.
#19 by dawsheng on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 10:24 pm
“The BN government has been working towards changing the country’s demographics and secure election victories in that way and by doing so ensure the perpetuation of its racist policies. Nowhere than in Sabah has the issue of demographics become instead the election issue rather than just “a process”.”
Absolutely right. Ketuanan Melayu makes me puke!
#20 by wtf2 on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 11:08 pm
while our neighbour down south is recruiting “foreign talent” our monkeys in BN are doing the reverse – throw out the talented ones and get the rejects as long as they meet the race and religion criteria. That’s why the country is going to the dogs.
Other countries are improving, Malaysia is not. It’s definitely sliding back to the dark ages. 2020?? fat hopes even if you give them 3030 they will not make it. period.
#21 by cemerlang on Friday, 27 June 2008 - 11:33 pm
Insert cash notes in between the documents and see if the permanent residence status is not granted. You’ll be surprised what wonders these cash notes can do.
#22 by shaxx on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 12:05 am
“Your wife is married to a Malaysian citizen and by virtue of her marriage to you, she should be a Malaysian permanent resident after a few short years. No one can take that away from your wife. How is it that you need to apply for a visa for her??” – undergrad2
I do not make the rules and the rules say that I have to renew her visa again this September… Do you happen to know something that I don’t? Or there is something that those immigration officers are not telling me? Or, I simply do not understand what you said? Cheers!
#23 by Monster Cookie on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 12:05 am
“Double charges in Hospitals for foreigners”
I refer to the above point , i still remember while i was studying in singapore in the 1990′s , i visited is a singapore govt poly clinic not a hospital , locals pay $8 for a normal consultation , while as a foreign student i pay almost double the price.
#24 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 12:27 am
shaxx,
Probably a bit of both.
I think whoever dealt with you was too lazy to refer to his or her officer – assuming she or he was aware of the wrong way you were approaching the issue of your wife’s continued stay in Malaysia. Or maybe you just didn’t ask him or her the right question or didn’t ask her or him any question.
If your wife was on a tourist visa or a student visa before you married her, it needs to be cancelled by immigration and her passport stamped to indicate her current status. Your wife should not be on any visa!
#25 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 12:35 am
If she’s leaving Malaysia for a short visit elsewhere, make sure she applies for a re-entry permit before she leaves or else she would lose her status as a PR. When she returns from an overseas visit without the re-entry permit, immigration would give her several days to report herself to immigration or lose her status completely – a courtesy extended only to Malays! Others would have their passport stamped as a visitor.
#26 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 12:46 am
cemerlang Says:
Yesterday at 23: 33.30
“Insert cash notes in between the documents and see if the permanent residence status is not granted. You’ll be surprised what wonders these cash notes can do.”
Yes, you’ll find your currency notes missing and replaced with a verbal promise by a shady character who would only speak to you in the privacy of the public toilet, to look into the matter. That’s what money does some time if not most of the time. If it comes at all, it is fake and there is no file on you. Then you’ll have Special Branch officers breathing down your neck for the next ten years!
#27 by sheriff singh on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 1:02 am
The whole Immigration Department and all related departments dealing with these issues should be cleaned up a la IPCMC. There are just too many horror stories going around but nobody seems to care all these years.
Most of the time, the files are all just KIV until there is some spring cleaning for it to be moved slightly. When you ask, the standard answer is “still in process”. For all you know your files are lost somewhere and nobody really is looking at it. So 15, 20 years down the line, it is still being considered.
In a western country that I know of, the officers there have to make a decision on a case by law, one way or another, within a specified time period. And they have to follow very clear guidelines. He / she has to state her reasons for their decisions and at the same time inform the applicant accordingly of their decision. And there is also a definite appeal process and complaints can also be filed with an ombudsman. So things move fast one way or another. The law protects the applicants and also ensures that their officers do their work efficiently.
The Minister concerned should be queried in Parliament and I hope PR MPs do ask questions on this. But I am sure the government will give their usual cock and bull replies.
#28 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 1:18 am
Not familiar with specific rules but general idea is that after continuously residing in Malaysia for a period of not less than five (5) years, foreign wife is eligible to apply for permanent residency (assuming documentation in order per their requirements).
However eligible to apply does not imply right to obtain, so the problems like in may other probelmtic areas in Malaysian national life where there is denigration of rights of people and abuse of power by officials, the crux of the problem, I speculate, lies in (1) too much discretionary power given in our legislations in general and immigration act in particular to officials and bureaucrats to make the ultimate decision and (2) insufficient clear and certain guidelines from the top (Ministry of Home Affairs) to immigration authorities as to the criteria by which they have to mandatorily grant PR ( failing which appeal may be made to the Minister or courts for redress) which in turn results in officials/bureaucrats coming out with their own set of criteria (whether based on occupation, gender race, religion or whatever other fanciful criteria depending their bias and beliefs) of whether to process the PR application, approve or reject, or just bury it as not priority (unless, in case of corrupt officials, otherwise given financial incentives and in other cases the application supported infleuntial political figures).
It is trite that if you couldn’t get rid of the wide discretionary bandwith accorded to these little Napoleons by legislations and regulations then the criteria set for them has to be clear and certain known to them and the public, so that everyone affected knows his rights and what to do next if the rights are transgressed.
Home Minister, Datuk Seri Syed Hamid Albar is not right in fundamental approach to say PR (in such cases of spouses of Malaysian citizen) is a privilege and not a right – with all attendant consequences of wide discretionary powers given to the government officials improperly exercised. All this talk of PR not a right and privilege is not helpful at all when one ignores the bureaucratic milieu everyone else is subject to.(And don’t use sham marriage as a pathethic excuse to frustrate the majority of genuine ones).
To be united as a family and not prised apart is a fundamental human right especially when one knows that everyone is subject to a bureaucratic and cultural milieu in which one’s laws confer wide discretion upon officials and one’s officials are not exactly exemplary in attitude or conduct for even one’s own Prime Minister to label his own civil servants “Little Napoleon”!
I contend that PR is right and not privilege when it concerns family reunification even if it were a privilege and not right in all other cases – and unless this exception is acknowledged, this problem is hard to solve.
It is hypocritical to extol the virtues of the integrity and importance of family as an institution and yet pay no attention to this areas where family togetherness is always subject to vagaries of bureaucratic discretion arbitrarily exercised. However I guess many of us are anaesthesized numb to a litany of political and officials’ hypocrisies in other areas of national life, too innumberable and well known for mention.
#29 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 2:06 am
Legal Permanent Resident (LPR) status is not a legal right but a revocable privilege.
#30 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 2:18 am
Respectfully, I’d have to disagree with Jeffrey.
In the U.S. and U.K. two countries I’m familiar with, it is the same. I believe it is the same everywhere. Citizenship is a privilege – not a right. The fact that you qualify to be naturalized does not mean you will be naturalized. Lawmakers or legislators may from time to time impose conditions and change them when they deem it right to do so.
Then as a permanent resident you can lose your right to work and stay indefinitely through a number of ways. It is a revocable privilege.
#31 by clearwater on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 5:21 am
Jeffrey has made a very good suggestion. If specific policies and rules are made for foreign born spouses in support of family reunification, many long standing PR cases will be resolved speedily. If the objective is to alleviate their ordeal, that is. If ruling politicians are humanitarian and care about their fellow citizens’ welfare.
Criteria for ‘spousal PR’ may include the following:
*5 years continuous residence in Malaysia
*good character and no criminal record
*children born in Malaysia or registered with Malaysian authorities
*skills and qualifications useful to Malaysia
It would be obvious that a foreign spouse who possesses the above four criteria is not in a marriage of convenience, not a security threat or a burden on Malaysian taxpayers. Many spousal PR cases are that clearcut , yet are not expedited or duly processed, causing great hardship to innocent families. Governments are elected to look after its people, not to cause them misery. Is the Malaysian government different? If so, we should change it.
#32 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 8:12 am
It may interest readers to know that in the U.S. the Chinese Exclusion Act which banned Chinese from migrating to the U.S. was only repealed as recently as in 1943.
#33 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 8:13 am
Why the racial discrimination you may ask.
#34 by monsterball on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 9:15 am
There is nothing new about this. It’s been on for decades
I sympathize with those faces such problem …with children.
#35 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 9:37 am
“Upon completion of two years marriage and stay in the country, the Immigration authorities should verify details of marriage and stay in the country and offer PR status to the Spouses.”
For comparison, in the U.S. if you marry a U.S. citizen, you are immediately granted conditional PR status and your passport is stamped, which allows you to work immediately. Before the end of two years, your spouse files a petition on your behalf. You are then served with a notice to attend an interview with Immigration – a waiting period of not longer than six months. Because of the prevalence of sham marriages and the difficulty in detecting them (a third of all immigrants each year fall into this category), immigration officials are very strict. Believe me they can detect sham marriages or marriages of convenience.
They interview you together. They then separate the both of you and put you into different rooms to face more questions. You should be able not just to show marriage photographs depicting marital bliss, and certificates but also photographs of you climbing mountains and jungle tracking and climbing trees and canoeing down river and up river, and in short, time spent together on holidays, a joint tax return, a joint bank account, a jointly owned property like a house. That is not enough. You should be able to tell your spouse’s favorite color, whether pink is your favorite color or the color of choice for your underwear, color of your tooth brush.
After a grueling two and half hours during which you would have revealed everything about your spouse, from her favorite pink panties to her cup size to whether she snores in her sleep, you are then informed that a decision will be made in due course and you will be informed by mail. You should receive that decision via mail in two weeks.
The next two months you will be walking the streets starry eyed and with a wide grin, and ears so red that others may think you’ve struck a lottery. That’s what the status of LPR does to you, until you’re ready to take the next step which is naturalization which will not come until three years later.
So from marriage to citizenship is a short three years.
So how does that compare with what you got in Malaysia today??
#36 by JDoe on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 10:03 am
I can see where our contry is going to. People with their same skin colour and religion (esp.from our 2 neighbouring countries) are getting PR and later BUMIPUTRA rights EASILY. Have a look around and see that most of these people are labourers/ unemployed/ robbers/ rapists/ beggers.
However those people with brains / highly educated / professionals are given a hard time getting PR here.
Soon our coutry will be going to the dawgs. How do we bring ourself to the level of Spore, Korea, Thailand with this kind of human resource?
The um-NO racists are doing this to stay in power and at the same time suck the country coffers dry. They don’t care about their own country and rakyat. They just care how much they can suck while they are still alive. “Who cares about this country. I have lots of money. I just migrate to Australia where the better social welfare and medical facility can take care of me when I am old”
These um-NO racists are using the name of religion and skin color just for their personal agenda. Do you think they care about you? Those who supports um-Nos, wake up you morons.
#37 by clearwater on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 10:12 am
YB Kit: Please pursue this issue for the sake of foreign spouses and their families, especially the children, on humanitarian grounds. My case does not qualify for the worst category and my foreign wife has given up on this country. She will return home after I meet my maker
monsterball: We are well aware this matter has been on for decades. In my case, 3 decades of marriage and hassle and 1 decade of waiting for PR. In between, years of strife, forgone careers, compromise and 3 children. For many others, the marriage may not bear the stress
undergrad2: I may pass the US interview unless 2 kids in the first 3 years of marriage trumps all else
#38 by lopez on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 10:12 am
they talk and used “without creed, colour and race” in many forms and variants but always elusive and inexact to its meaning always leaving an escape for later critism if met with an equal adversary…. imaginary and suggestive phrases ?
So when some of the people who voted them to power made choices and married another national, they switch unto paranoidal mode and for all reasons known to them automatically triggers a rejection status and a programme of excuses would be triggered for the applied.
But is this not the privilege of the nation child, to build a family in the way he or she chooses and bring up that family in the land one chooses to be.
So are we in the millenium
all avenues lost….we can comfort ourselves to say “What to do, when already arrogant and walking on clouds”
So arrogant and cant reason rationally whether the egg came first or is the chicken?
Stay here longer and becomes the laugh stock of asean lamers.
#39 by clearwater on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 10:15 am
Sorry.
undergrad2: I may not pass the US interview….
#40 by sama on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 10:22 am
I am a Malaysian who got married to a woman from India in 1982. PR was applied for her in 1987 and police interview was done in the same year. We checked with the immigration every after year as to the progress of the application but we were asked to wait year after year until it was 2003 when her visit pass was stamped “tahun ke 21″. We decided to leave the country in 2003 due uncertainty of her residence in Malaysia. Unpatriotic is what some people called us. But what choice we had. I didn’t have the guts to bribe my way through being timid, I guess. Or was it law abiding?
#41 by taiking on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 10:33 am
I quote JDoe
“People with their same skin colour and religion (esp.from our 2 neighbouring countries) are getting PR and later BUMIPUTRA rights EASILY … most of these people are labourers/ unemployed/ robbers/ rapists/ beggers.
However those people with brains / highly educated / professionals are given a hard time getting PR here.”
Perhaps we must all realise that our country has enough brains and brain power. They are all in UMNO. Cant we see that? In fact we have more than enough. We could spare them. Poor Singapore and Australia, you fellas could use some of our rejects. No loss to us even if it means a great gain to you guys. Really.
One suggestion. UMNO you guys could engage Pascal Savage to advise you on your immigration policy.
#42 by cheng on soo on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 10:47 am
For information, another country in ASEAN that hv very tough laws on foreign spouse getting PR or citizenship is Brunei. To apply for citizenship, one must stay at least 20 years as a PR ! Even a lot of their Chinese are only a PR, despite been born in Brunei (both parent not citizen, just PR), and stayed for at least 30 years !
So Msia may not be the worst in ASEAN.
#43 by lopez on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 11:19 am
it is a real world,
During the schooling years, 50 years ago…all our experts obtained their expertise background overseas and majority fro good old United Kingdom.
Their education brings out the best of an individual, if you get the opportunity those days, ….placement among locals got into troubled later…and a lot of hoooo haaaa. But as usual their leaders of society and government who are the wisest yet on the said problem.
The intrinsic argument is that if foreign student participation is to persist in their university and ..their societies it is not only the individual student that benefit….it is the society and communities that equally benefit. Not in just contributing to the gdp and not only just for the said tenure of stay…but in many many aspects you all know lah..
And that nkp and his gang also knows but don’t want others of his kind to know, for fear?, jealousy,? selfishness?, …
But one thing for sure he is good is separating other people’s life apart and make other people’s life difficult and possess art of marginalisation.
#44 by toyolbuster on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 2:40 pm
Nothing is worse than being asked by a perverted immigration officer during an interview for the application of a PR status on the following questions orally. How many times you have sex with your wife in a week, why do you have to marry a foreign wife, why can’t you marry a local woman. Did you have sex before you married your wife. You are lucky that your wife is not from China or Taiwan or we would have send her back straight. These were the exact shocking words that still rings loudly in my ears.
#45 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 2:52 pm
As Undergrad2 said, it is ordinary fir even developed countries of USA, UK, S’pore, to treat PR & Citizenship as a privilege as distinct from a right, in so far a foreigner/alien is concerned.
But not all foreigners/aliens applying for PR/citizenship should be placed on equal footing on this privilege versus right thing!
I would argue that whilst all foreigners/aliens are equal, but I would that argue foreign spouses as a separate category should be “more equal” and be given special consideration.
This is based on two considerations.
The first is that the matter does not only concern a foreigner/alien wanting to stay and work in Malaysia or a foreigner/alien’s rights about which it has been earlier said that they have none, only privilege if deemed fit to be extended.
It also concerns our own citizen’s right. As a citizen I have the right to marry and have family. It is said that it is also a basic human right recognized by United Nation’s conventions. So if I have the right to marry and have family, it also means I have the right to family togetherness and unification. Elsewhere the government harps on importance of family institution in nation building. So what difference does it make if I happen to marry a foreigner as spouse? Do all these rights disappear because I hapen to be highly qualified and could think and even be productive to the economy beneficial to all but don’t happen to be an indonesian migrant who could bribe an official to proess the application fast or a Filipino refugee who would in exchange for PR/MyKad pledge to vote for BN under Project M???
Second, the Malaysian government should give allowance – and plenty of discount – to the very cultural milieu of our bureaucracy that our own Prime Minister has described some officials as “Little Napoleons”.
If they can be “little Napoleons” to even the Prime Minister, what more to ordinary spouses applying for PR by reason of their other half being citizen?
How could it be justified vesting discretionary powers to them (and not drawing defined limits) when in the exercise of which they have shown to give the public a run around or otherwise have used arbitrary criteria without sensitivity to the human plight involved?
What is the point of using First World’s standard – that PR/Citizenship is a privilege and not a right – when our officials do not have the same fairness, objectivity and efficiency in discharging their functions and processing the so called privilege in same professional way as their First World’s counter part??? Better turn it to a right!
However whether one calls it right or privilege, the issue here is accountability by officialdom.
And by that standard it means (1) one has to set clear guidelines, the guidelnes being based on objective than subjective criteria, with definite time lines for processing and action to be taken, just like the examples suggested by Clearwate in his postingr above at
Today at 05: 21.15; (2) give a redress to higher authority for rectification if those guidelines are not adhered and no action taken within stipulated time.
#46 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 2:53 pm
Sorry for typo should be “…ordinary FOR even developed…”
#47 by BoycottLocalPapers on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 2:59 pm
My uncle married a Thai nationality more than thirty years ago and until now my aunt couldn’t get citizenship. This is really unfair considering the fact that many Indonesians were given citizenship.
This is UMNO’s well known policy:
If the applicant is an Indonesian/Thai Muslim, then citizenship will be given.
But if the applicant is an Indonesian/Thai Christian or Buddhist, then citizenship will not be given.
If the applicant is an Arab or Pakistani Muslim, then citizenship will be given.
But if the applicant is a non-Muslim Chinese/Indian, then, citizenship will not be given.
#48 by Jeffrey on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 3:11 pm
Is this the immigration official’s self devised criteria or Datuk Seri Syed Hamid Albar as Minister of Home Affairs???
YB should press him to spell out the guidelines and the time period for each action to be taken, and the recourse of the foreign spouse applicant when these guideleines are not followed.
#49 by ypmeng on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 6:56 pm
It can only work when there is a change of government. Why complain when we have voted in those unfair idiots who are just giving out mykad and PR to the illegal in Mainland and in sabah. Vote them out in the next GE
#50 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 7:17 pm
“It also concerns our own citizen’s right. As a citizen I have the right to marry and have family. It is said that it is also a basic human right recognized by United Nation’s conventions.” Jeffery
The right to meet, fall in love and to marry and have kids and build a life together is a universal right. The fact that you are an alien (not the ones hovering overheads on a moonless night hoping to land) does not mean you’re less entitled to the respect the institution of marriage deserves. It is not about entitlement. If you were to tell a U.S. immigrant judge that he should respect the sanctity of marriage, the judge would look at you sternly in your face and tell you that that is what he is doing, but when you beak the law – as when the spouse is illegally in this country – it is his job to set things right, even if that means sending your spouse back to where he or she came from. The immigration judge is not interfering with the sanctity of marriage, is not preventing the spouses of their right to live together, have kids and build a family. What the judge is saying is that you as a citizen are free to follow your spouse to her or his home country and wait for your petition for her to be considered, and a 2-year period to demonstrate the marriage was entered into in good faith, that you have a steady job and earning enough income to support her and that she is not likely to be a public charge. But if your spouse is a legal alien say a foreign student or a temporary visitor whose visas have not expired, she does not need to leave. She would be allowed to stay and is given the right to work as a conditional legal permanent resident.
Is that interfering with your right as citizen to marry, have kids and build a family together, which like Jeffrey says, is a universal right. The problems you face in the home country of your spouse is another matter. Over there no law has been broken and for an immigration judge to prevent a foreign spouse from living a life together with you as a citizen or even a permanent legal resident, just because she is an alien would be interfering with the sanctity of marriage.
Where does Malaysia stand in all this?
I restrict my comments to migration through marriage – the subject of this thread. In countries like the U.S. there is the family immigration. There are specific laws that allow members of the family to migrate. U.S. family laws promote family unity – a central value. The U.S. unlike Malaysia observes the rule of law and applies it equally. It is after all a democracy rooted in the ideals of freedom, justice, and equality.
Lawmakers from time to time pass new laws. Here we are entering the realm of the politics of immigration – a topic for another day!
It would appear that the BN government needs to take the intricacies of immigration out of the shadows and into the public place where we could observe and ensure that the workings of bureaucracy do not defeat the ideals of democracy, freedom, equality and justice for all to which the DAP stands committed.