Lets have the worst cases of the agony of foreign spouses of Malaysians to get PR (permanent residence) status, so that Parliament and the government can hear about them – with the Home Minister having to respond as well.
You can either write on this blog or email me.
A long-suffering foreign spouse has emailed her views and suggestions, which I am sharing here:
CURRENT SITUATION:
Visa rules
There are thousands of foreign spouses who are on Dependent or Employment visas renewable until last year on a yearly basis.
However since 2007, spouses are able to renew their visas for upto 5 years.
(Most often we cannot afford to pay the visa charges for 5 years at one time)
Spouses do not get Permanent Resident status even after spending more than 15 years in the country and we have Malaysian school going children.
Application for Permanent Resident Status
We have to separately put in our application for Permanent Resident Status. I took with me one full suitcase of documents, they even require a wedding invitation – how many of you have kept your wedding invitations for 16 years??
Immigration officers are still uncertain as to where foreign spouses should apply for their PR status. Federal or State?
After applying for PR status it still takes years for the approval to come through.
Employment
Foreign spouses are only permitted to work on a spouse visa a very elegant term (with due apologies) for the “employment pass” and only with companies having a paid up capital of 200K and above. There is a lot of documentation to be provided which would put off any employer.
Foreign Spouses on Spouse Visa whose income is not taxable have to pay a Levy.
I have paid levy of up to RM4000 per annum.
It may be that it is also easier and less procedural for expatriates to get an employment pass than spouses of Malaysian citizens.
SUGGESTED RECOMMENDATIONS
To ease and better manage the vast number of foreign spouses in the country.
Visa Rules
A reasonable wait for foreign spouses to get their Permanent Resident Status would be a two year period, after marriage. This would be very much in line with our neighbour Singapore and other modern democracies such as UK, USA and Australia.
Permanent Resident Approval
Upon completion of two years marriage and stay in the country, the Immigration authorities should verify details of marriage and stay in the country and offer PR status to the Spouses.
Employment
Foreign spouses should be allowed to work, without having to seek an employment pass/spouse work permit.
Foreign Spouses should be allowed to work in any company irrespective of the paid up capital, as such rules only serve to restrict their employment opportunities.
There is a cooling off period of six months when jobs are changed should be waived. This is really uncalled for, to be treated like foreign maids. Six months is a long time for us to remain unemployed – this should be done away with.
Do away with some of the humiliating rules.
Over stay
If for some reason we miss the date of renewal of visas, we are deemed to have overstayed, well how can we overstay in our own home? To add insult to injury we have to pay summons for overstaying in our own home.
Long Wait
For 16 years, I have been subjected to demeaning rules such as my Malaysian husband having to accompany me when I go to renew my visa. It is acceptable for us to do this for one of two years, but for 16 years, it is degrading.
Marriage Search
When I changed employers I was asked to provide a Marriage Search, little did I know that such a thing existed?
Malaysia My Second Home
Right now priority is given for PR status to applicants of ” Malaysia My Second Home”, possibly because this is revenue earning, however shouldn’t due consideration be assigned to Spouses of Malaysian citizens who in effect have made Malaysia their home.
Opening Individual Bank Accounts
Foreign Spouses Housewives unable to open a bank account with some of the Banks, are often asked to open joint accounts with husbands.
Foreigners are required by banks to produce either a letter from their educational institution if they are students or their employer if there are expatriate employees. So housewives get left out.
Double charges in Hospitals for foreigners, is there some way that spouses can get exemption?
Now we cannot even collect the rebate for the petrol hike. Our cars are used to ferry our Malaysian school going kids.
Spouses with Marital difficulties
Furthermore, Spouses who have marital problems, after 10-15 years in the country are put through unimaginable trauma, when sometimes they even have to leave the country without being able to extend their visa, without the custody of their children.
Most of these spouses cannot afford legal fees and their cases are not highlighted.
Option for Citizenship
There should also be an option for citizenship.
The law in other countries
What needs immediate attention is the immigration law itself for spouses of citizens. Today in countries such as UK, USA, Australia and nearer home in Singapore, no more than 2 years of living together is required to secure PR status – marriage is not even a necessity in these countries.
Immigration Act, Procedures
I have browsed through the Immigration Act, however I could not find any references to foreign spouses.
Immigration procedures for foreign spouses change at an astonishing speed, only making it more difficult for them.
The procedures change from Putra Jaya to Damansara, from officer to officer.
In 1992 I was told that I could only apply for PR if I resided in the country for 5 years.
In Year 1997 I was told that I could not apply for PR status as I was on an employment pass and not a dependent pass.
Then I was told to go to Shah Alam, when I went there I was told that my husband’s residence is in Perak, then I was further pushed away and told to go to Damansara, who told me go to state. Until today, no one seems to know the rule as to where the submission for application of PR could be made.
Finally I was able to submit my application in Pusat Damansara in August 2007.
Now I have been told that the rules have changed and spouses who have children who are below 6 years can apply, after being given a run around for 15 years, I cannot reduce the ages of my children who are 14 and 9 years of age.
BENEFITS TO THE NATION
Highly Qualified Professional Spouses
This will also be beneficial to the nation as many spouses are highly qualified and are seeking the employment market. Overseas spouses have even indicated that they are willing to return should it be easier to gain employment.
Good Governance and Best practise for Spouses augur wells for the community, the law makers and the Nation.
What do you think?
#1 by Captain on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 9:15 pm
I was at KL tower yesterday with some friends. When buying ticket, a friend of mind ended arguing with the counter girl and she was adamant a wife of a citizen is a foreigner and has to pay RM20 to go up the tower.
Poor friend, his wife has been here in Malaysia since the last 8 years as a wife of a citizen yet we still consider her outsider?
What stupid rule. Shame on you KL Tower.
#2 by undergrad2 on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 9:51 pm
“…and she was adamant a wife of a citizen is a foreigner and has to pay RM20 to go up the tower.” Captain
I wish I could agree with you but the woman is right as far as her legal status is concerned. She is a legal alien with a temporary immigrant status (not non-immigrant status) until her application for her PR status is approved.
However, when a spouse has been in the country for as long as eight years and her application for PR is still pending, there is something wrong. Either you have a bad law or its application is just wrong!
#3 by chanwk28 on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 11:37 pm
Dear YB,
For foreign spouse getting PR status, I have more than 10 books stories to tell. Maybe Steven Spielbergs may interested of my script too. For those newly wed foreign couples, I may have to tell you please do not give too much of hopes getting your spouse a PR, it only sounds fantasy, because I’m one of the so called “victim” too.
The government could not stop anybody from getting married to a foreigner. This is a so called “jodoh” given by god. If the government need to do so, then it should stop Malaysian going overseas, or stop foreigner entering our country. So far the government did not, and it still fair at this stage.
Sometimes, I wonder is our government really knows what are they doing. By 2020, we need to achieved 70 millions population. Base on the calculation, we only have 12 years more to go. Currently we have only 27 millions, we still need something like 43 millions to achieve the target. In the other words, we must have 3.5 millions additional population every year? Look at the rate now? Can it be achieve? Then why should the foreign spouse not given a status here? And please remember that there are also Malaysian married abroad, this will decrease the population numbers.
On my point of view, this is all polictical scenario. If the government given PR to all foreign spouses, soon, the chinese and indian will fight for the equal rights with the malays.Am I right here YB? And maybe one day the indian or chinese will be the PM? And we always heard that we are only “tumpang on people’s land” by this “mamak-thir” claimed himself as malay. Very sickening when we as other races heard that. But what to do, is our ancestors that brought us here.
I totally agreed with you that some of the spouses are professional. Sadly,they are not allowed to work. I even remember about few years back that our chinese schools in Malaysia were shortage of teachers, some clever minister plans to pay high price to get it from China. Hey, my wife is gradute too, why can’t they source from what we have here before source it from abroad. And also many others may have the same quality. Give them a chance. The worse thing is my wife are not allowed to work but she has an account from LHDN. Althought nothing to be declare but still have to submit the form every year. Nobody can felt how we feel having a foreign spouse? Sometime it like a punishment by the government if you married a foreign spouse.You seem to face all corners of problems waiting for you. From family to government. Sometimes, you even meet some very arrogant immigration officer. They even ask whether the child you carry is your own child, or just borrow it from others? I like to say this, to any couples that face this problem when you meet this kind of officer, please don’t give in. Ask them what do they mean? Tell them if they dare,put it in writing what have they just said. Remember, as a government servant, their job is to give services to the public. Not bullying the public. Their only can enforce by the law if we are in the wrong. Complaint them to the board. I believe some one will respond to you. Off course, there are also very polite and friendly officer. Not all are bad.
So YB, if one day when your coalition takes over the government, please consider that foreign spouse will be given PR.
#4 by MGR1940 on Saturday, 28 June 2008 - 11:55 pm
Dear YB Kim,
I married my wife who is an Indonesian in 1993 and have a daughter
14 years old and a Malaysian citizen.I have been renewing my wifes visa every year and applied for PR after 5 years as required at that time of law with all necessary documents and wedding photos.After I and my wife asked to attend an interview a month later.The Immigration officer just asked simple questions and told as to wait till
further information.
Every year during the visa renewal, when ask about the status, the answer is “sudah antar KL,tunggu sampai ada jabwab”. Until recently a friend told me to approach directly to Putra Jaya. Five
month ago I appealed to Putra Jaya after 10 years of waiting and
got a reply saying “Sukacita dimaklumkan bahawa permohonan tuan
adalah dalam pertimbangan Jabatan ini. Tuan akan dimaklumkan sebaik sahaja keputusan diperolehi.” When will this happen? After my death?
I went through a multiple by-pass heart surgery in 1994 just after my daughter was born and am surviving to date. I am 68 years old now and do not know how long more I can pull through which I have stated in my appeal letter to Putra Jaja.
I am worried about my wife if I die. She cannot renew visa without me in person. She has to leave Malaysia or else she be illegal person to stay here. I am more worried for my daughter. What will happen to her without both the parents? I have no blood to look after her. I am the only son for my late Malaysian parents.
I only hope for some good news for my wife after 15 years of waiting. She is a undergraduate,all rounder in sports,can name any
royalty,ministers,and any current matters in Malaysia and a good wife and mother who will make a good citizen for this country.
#5 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 29 June 2008 - 2:11 am
MGR,
I guess you are an Indian married to a non-Muslim Indonesian.
Haven’t you thought of using a lawyer? You need legal representation in matters like this. The backlog of civil cases waiting to be heard is astronomical by any standard and one could understand why advice like “Seek legal representation” is a source of little comfort to people with similar problem like yourself.
How do you do battle with a bureaucracy burdened by red tape, numbed and insensitive to the needs of people who choose to build families with alien spouses? Even Malays who find themselves in similar situations have had to put up with caustic remarks from Immigration officials: “Kalau awak tak mahu masaalah seperti ini, kenapa tak kahwin dengan bangsa sendiri?” – especially the women.
It is time politicians do something. It is time our legislators look at the law and see how it could be improved. Often it is not the law but its execution. This is a nonpartisan issue and it should be able to attract non-partisan support.
It is time structural reforms be made to its administrative machinery. It is time administrative courts and boards and tribunals are set up within the appropriate Ministry or department to handle immigration matters. These are the immigration courts presided over by judges. Such immigration courts are no different than civil courts except procedures are less formal and no strict rules of evidence need be followed. Decisions could be appealed to a board presided over by a panel of say three judges. The civil courts could act as the final court of appeal.
I believe our immigration law is full of loopholes.
In the U.S. if you file a petition for your spouse for an immigrant visa, the start of a process which will end in your spouse getting PR status, it should take no more than six months which is the maximum time period allowed to the government to reply and schedule an appointment for an interview. It is stated in the instructions given in the form and the form is sent by mail. Once you are given a date for the interview, you are required to attend or else without more it is regarded as application having been abandoned. The decision is made at the close of the interview or you will be informed your application is under review which means a delay of two weeks before you get the decision by mail.
If you apply for work authorization, the government is allowed 120 days (maximum) to respond i.e. application approved or denied. If it exceeds the 120-day time period, the government is required by law to issue the applicant with the authorization to work. You get a credit card size plastic to carry with you which also doubles up as ID. If the applicant’s case is later rejected, the authorization is deemed cancelled. How would the employer know that? It has a magnetic tape at the back and when your employer swipes the card, it links to an immigration data base and your employer will know.
It is all about the rule of law. The government has to abide by the same law as its citizens. The rules of the game are the same whether played by an Indian, Chinese or Malay or a Kadazan etc.
Isn’t it too much to expect our legislators to do a comprehensive review of our immigration law and procedures?
#6 by ablastine on Sunday, 29 June 2008 - 2:18 am
PR status for non Malays in Malaysia. One must be dreaming. More than ten years ago when I sent in several files of documents to apply for just multiple visit pass for my wife (Chinese from China) I was not only rejected but the application never even went in. I asked the person manning the counter for a receipt of my application. He informed me there is no such thing. I am suppose to be duly informed when my application is processed. Of course the application never got processed. It went straight to the waste paper basket the moment we turned our heads the other way. This was confirmed when we called up the immigration department. Nobody has heard of the application!
So we decided not to return to Malaysia with our children. Cannot afford to go to immigration to chop passport every two weeks. Guess what. My wife got permanent residency in Singapore in two months. We and on behalf of all Malaysian who are in similar situation, would like to thank the Singapore Government wholeheartedly for taking us in. In Singapore we are considered EQUAL even to their own citizen. It truly is a remarkable meritocratic system.
#7 by undergrad2 on Sunday, 29 June 2008 - 2:24 am
chanwk28 Says:
Yesterday at 23: 37.06
Dear YB,
For foreign spouse getting PR status, I have more than 10 books stories to tell. Maybe Steven Spielbergs …”
Your story is hilarious! But you don’t need to send your script so far away as Hollywood. A local producer would do just as well, and the title of the movie should be “Green Card – the Malaysian Way” with LKS as the lead actor, and RPK as the supporting actor. That would be sensational!
#8 by bdason on Sunday, 29 June 2008 - 7:42 pm
Nothing will change in RACIST Malaysia. I can speak from experience. I was Malaysian when I met my future wife. I realized that for us to have a trouble free life, we cannot live in Malaysia. No point trying to have a life in Malaysia as they will never be treated fairly. So I left Malaysia to settle in Australia. We were both welcomed with open arms here even though we were both foreigners. Both of us were allowed to work, buy property , travel freely and other. Basically we had the same rights except to vote. Recently I have obtained Australian citizenship and I have no regrets when I burn my Malaysian Passport and IC and sent the ashes back to KL.
LKS….Malaysia is a wonderful place but those UMNO idiots have ruined the country.
#9 by MGR1940 on Sunday, 29 June 2008 - 11:31 pm
Thank you undergrad2,
Can you please advice me on how,whom and where to approach to
seek legal representation as suggested by you.
#10 by shaxx on Monday, 30 June 2008 - 12:34 am
“Probably a bit of both.
I think whoever dealt with you was too lazy to refer to his or her officer – assuming she or he was aware of the wrong way you were approaching the issue of your wife’s continued stay in Malaysia. Or maybe you just didn’t ask him or her the right question or didn’t ask her or him any question.
If your wife was on a tourist visa or a student visa before you married her, it needs to be cancelled by immigration and her passport stamped to indicate her current status. Your wife should not be on any visa!” – UnderGrad2
Tried to verify what you mentioned here but nobody has ever heard of such thing that my wife does not need a spouse Visa…
Can you point me to the right article, site or officer in charge since the last person that I talked to is involved in helping foreign workers in Malaysia and he is also wondering about what you have mentioned here as he is totally not aware of such thing…
Hope you can let me know exactly about what u said since you sounded very knowledgeable in this matter. Thanks and Cheers!
#11 by undergrad2 on Monday, 30 June 2008 - 6:19 am
Well, shaxx perhaps I should have mentioned to you that that was my personal experience and the law then could be different from the law today.
I can only say that the procedures now in place and perhaps also the law in Malaysia today appears not to be in accord with international standards. In my case I just had to convert her status to that of a PR and within two years after an interview with Special Branch she was granted PR status. She didn’t want to apply for Malaysian citizenship choosing instead to remain a foreign national with rights to permanent residence in Malaysia. She has since abandoned that right.
#12 by undergrad2 on Monday, 30 June 2008 - 6:25 am
“Can you please advice me on how,whom and where to approach to
seek legal representation as suggested by you.” MGR
There are so many lawyers in Malaysia today and if you reside in Malaysia you must have heard of the joke that if you were to throw a stone up in the air when walking in the vicinity of Medan Pasar, it would land on a lawyer’s head!
#13 by undergrad2 on Monday, 30 June 2008 - 6:26 am
make that KL instead of “Malaysia”
#14 by cheng on soo on Monday, 30 June 2008 - 9:59 am
Even in Brunei, they are only very strict to grant citizenship (almost impossible !), but they grant PR to foreign spouses of their citizens much easier than Msia.
#15 by clearwater on Monday, 30 June 2008 - 10:43 am
I would like to hear from our Malay and Muslim fellow citizens as to what their experience is with PR for their foreign spouses. Particularly in the case of students who studied abroad, met their spouse while studying, graduated and married a foreign wife. There must be many such cases, given the number of students sent abroad on scholarships and study loans. I personally know one such case but the person did not encounter any ordeal, wife just fulfilled the residential criteria and was granted PR. Unfortunately, the marriage did not last and she returned to her country of birth.
#16 by shaxx on Monday, 30 June 2008 - 11:30 am
undergrad2, I don’t know when was that bust somehow that is no longer the case now….
#17 by tonysam18 on Tuesday, 8 July 2008 - 11:01 am
Dear MGR and Ablastine and all those who are facing the brick wall in your application for PR in Malaysia .
Let me tell you . You all have got the wrong approach to apply for the PR for your spouse.
Do you still remember the 2004 Asian Tsumani ? An Indonesian fisherman who was found drifting in a rickity raft was rescued by a Port Klang bound container vessel. When asked later from his hospital as to what was his wish, he replied that he would like to stay and work in Malaysia legally and was granted PR on the spot without any application paper even submitted. Most of my Malaysian friends who have British and Australian wives who are qualified doctors are not granted PR.
The moral of this history is : to apply for PR in Malaysia, you must take a rickity raft and sail along the Straits of Malacca and wait for a Malaysian bound vessel to pick you up. Then you must declare that you are an Indonesian and would like to work and stay in Malaysia. Presto, you will be granted PR on the spot.
Always remember : Money first , then things then people . Now you stay safe.
#18 by julian on Tuesday, 8 July 2008 - 3:12 pm
undergrad2
Being married to a Malaysian gives no right of abode, no right to work, no right to a PR, no right of entry, or anything. It only gives the right to apply for a ‘Spouse pass’, which is a glorified tourist visa. A foreign spouse *cannot* stay here without a visa.
I speak from experience, being one myself.
#19 by kiren on Tuesday, 22 July 2008 - 2:57 pm
im also one of those whom are suffering in this stupid government ruling in malaysia!! before i got married to my husband .. i would say that i was a blind women living in malaysia. my husband is a european , he came to m.sia many times , he loved malaysia as a tourist.. but i was stupid enough that i didnt explain to him abt this bureaucratically annoyingly government treatment towards expatriates !! we left europe is due to mie… i couldnt live in cold climate. he left everything in europe juz for mie.. thinking that i will be happier and healthier here!!! BUT TO OUR DISMAY!! its million times worse than europe’s climate!! sometimes i think that i made a BIG mistake by coming back to malaysia!! Many ppl have told mie this before, they told mie to go back to europe or worse to worst stay in singapore!. the suffering that my husband is going through .. i couldnt see it!! there are so many things that happen…!! can you imagine.. i cald the immigration department to ask something abt PR and the 1st thing the lady asked mie was ( ” cik name siape?” ) or the other day the man asked mie ( ” cik muslim ke non- muslim?) i asked them .. what is the difference? malaysian is a malaysian …y yu ask mie this question../? im not dealing with syahriah court..they f no answer to that instead they told mie its just a routine question .. WAT!!!! routine question to ask someone,s race !!!! let mie answer for them.. because i can speak good malay.. so .. to confirm im not or i am a malay.. they ask mie this questions!! remember ppl… wen you cald a government offices .. if they ask you ur name … its not because of customer service.. but its because of… (bumiputra benefits!). as others my husband doesnt get any benefits of marrying mie here.. huh!! his country rights are so much million times better than us.. can you imagine how is going tru! there was even in the immigration department in putrajaya… they dunt speak english… my husband ask them questions.. and they look at mie and and answer in malay!! is this your way of pulling expatriates .. lets face this.. not every malaysian are smart and intelligent.. BLAME the education system.. so ppl from outside .. means ppl like engineers or doctors or lecturers from overseas wants to help us by working in our country..( whom are married to malaysian ) are treated like a big SHIT!!! my husband has a professional degree in engineering… and they ask him .. why you follow your wife to malaysia ..??!! your wife should follow you to your country!! – this was asked by the immigration department ( putrajaya) officer!! ( only one sentence of english and very rudely spoken) .. can you imagine this!!..
to dear mr lim kiat siang… i really hope you can do something.. abt all this matters once the government is toppled!! im just waiting for it…. its not for mie.. but for everyone… every malaysian…you never know in future who is gonna marry which foreigner..and next who is gonna stand in that unlucky line. at the end of the day.. i myself told my husband lets leave this country… no future for us.. can you imagine how our children going to go tru…i had enough seeing my husband suffering.. i dunt want my children to suffer in future… ( this country is worse than africa… to mie it seems more like apatite’s system but done under the blanket!)
#20 by barbara789 on Thursday, 23 July 2009 - 6:35 pm
It is a great article with a nice presentation and I would like to say do continue your appreciating work.
Barbara
Pr Jobs
#21 by zorross on Wednesday, 16 December 2009 - 9:41 pm
I am going to get marry with my future wife, which is also a foreigner. I need to face all this circumstances… Malaysia Boleh Apa Pun “Boleh”.. Haih…
#22 by thara on Saturday, 23 January 2010 - 11:30 pm
for two years i know a woman frm india who got married to a malayasian.she is a graduate,but the man and his mother treating her very badly,nw she got a son,if they want to seperate,she hv to leave the country without her son?it is realy pathetic and against human rights.