Statement from Minister for Defence Teo Chee Hean
Posted: 12 Jun 2008, 1500 hours (Time is GMT +8 hours)

Minister for Defence Teo Chee Hean said:

“I would like to express my deep condolences to the families of the late REC Andrew Cheah Wei Siong and the late OCT Clifton Lam Jia Hao.

I am saddened by the loss of two young and precious sons of Singapore.

I support the decision of the SAF to take a time-out on physical and endurance training for 3 days. This will allow the SAF to review and refocus on such activities to ensure that proper procedures are in place and being followed, before such training resumes.

While the SAF needs to carry out realistic training, this will be done without compromise to safety.”

Related News Releases

12 Jun 08 - Death of Regular Serviceman
10 Jun 08 - Death of Serviceman

Last updated on 12 Jun 2008

SAF suspends physical training after two deaths in two days
By Valarie Tan, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 12 June 2008 1715 hrs

SINGAPORE: Singapore’s Ministry of Defence has declared a three-day time-out (12-14 June) on all physical and endurance training activities in the army, navy and air force.

This follows the deaths of two servicemen within two days.

20-year-old Officer Cadet (OCT) Lam Jia Hao Clifton, a pilot trainee with the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF), died on Wednesday, one-and-a-half hours after he collapsed while he was undergoing jungle orientation training in Brunei.

A day earlier, 20-year-old army recruit Andrew Cheah Wei Siong died after he fainted while taking part in a two-kilometre walk training activity on Pulau Tekong.

Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean said the time-out will allow the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) to review and re-focus on training activities to ensure that proper procedures are in place before training resumes. - CNA/ir

Related News

• RSAF serviceman dies after collapsing during training
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/353643/1/.html

• NS recruit dies after fainting during training activity
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/353163/1/.html

Najib, you really can’t be bothered, can you?
TW | May 16, 08 4:39pm
I refer to the Malaysiakini report Najib lashes out at accusations of ‘the Mongolian woman’.

Oh my goodness, Mr DPM, this is the 21st century. This is the Age of the Internet. Where have you been? The rakyat are no longer stupid. Perhaps one good thing that the Barisan Nasional (read Umno) government has done is use billions of taxpayers’ money to send thousands of Malaysian students (of one particular race) abroad to study. So now, it’s payback time! Their minds are more open; they have seen the world, soaked in new ideas, experienced freedom and have analytical minds.

The public is not confused. Not at all. The public is very clear about the issues. And the public wants justice, accountability, honesty, compassion, and integrity. Can the Barisan Nasional government give us these things? Oh, oh, the silence is deafening. I thought so.

Corruption, crime, injustice, arrogance, and lies are running rampant in Bolehland. What have you done, as the people’s elected representative, to combat these ills of society? You have party colleagues who are sexists and racists, and colleagues in Parliament who advocate ‘closing one eye’ to corrupt practices, and you do nothing about them. Now you want the public to sympathise with you?

The Court of Public Opinion is running on overtime. Mr DPM, if you care, just pop by any coffee shop or warung in the morning before you go to work, have a cuppa there and listen to what Malaysians from all walks of life have to say about you. Listen to the questions they ask about the Mongolian woman’s murder trial, and the so-called ‘commissions’ paid out to crony companies in the fighter jets and submarine deals. Listen to what they have to say about the stupid National Service programme. It’s enlightening. You must try it. But you are perhaps too far detached to even bother isn’t it? And you claim to have the people’s interest at heart?

There is absolutely no need for you to point the finger at the opposition. You only need to listen to the rakyat. And the rakyat is smart enough to know what’s going on. They don’t need the opposition to be the penghasut. Your job is not to point fingers. Your job is to answer to the people, the rakyat, and do the right thing. You need to convince the Court of Public Opinion that what you have said to date is indeed the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Otherwise, what you have said in the august House will have absolutely no meaning whatsoever.

There is definitely a need for a commission of inquiry into the government’s 2002-2003 purchase of the two French-made Scorpene submarines, and the 18 Russian-made Sukhoi fighter jets. The rakyat can no longer take your word for it. And if the rakyat wants an investigation into these deals, proceed with the investigations. It is the rakyat paying for it anyway. So who are you to say it is not necessary? Perhaps, it is timely to remind you that in a democracy, the people are the boss. Not the government. The government is the servant of the people. We seem to have this notion reversed up for a long, long time. No more!

The rakyat also demands the deals be scrutinised by the government opening its books to be examined. Perhaps then, the people will believe what you say. On the PSC-Naval Dockyard patrol boats project for the navy, where is the great Amin Shah? Is he not liable to answer for this botched project that has cost the taxpayers billions of ringgit?

And you actually reckon the National Service programme is well-received by the rakyat eh? In that case, it would be proper to NOT force parents to send their children to these camps. Allow them the choice to decide if they want their children to participate. Can the government do that in the event that you still insist for the programme to continue? Or would that hurt the bank accounts of the organisers too much? You had earlier said the National Service programme cannot be terminated because ‘too many parties were involved’. So it’s not about fostering national unity or promoting racial integration is it. It’s about profit, isn’t it?

Mr DPM, you are a seasoned politician. You are also the people’s elected representative. But strangely, you don’t sound too concerned about the deaths of these innocent kids in the NS camps. You don’t seem too concerned about what the affected parents are going through. You are indifferent, as many of your party colleagues in Parliament are. You are indifferent because these kids are not your own flesh and blood. They don’t count. You really can’t be bothered, can you? Now that’s extremely telling about the kind of leader you are.

As a taxpayer and a member of the electorate, I demand that you prepare a list showing which member of the Cabinet has children participating in the NS camps, or is it true that children of ministers and Umno cronies do not have to attend these camps?

It is inhumane, poorly managed, a unity camp initiated by the government should be of a high standard.

Not a place for “mysterious illness”, “unknown fever”, sakit perut - no problem, makan painkiller, “eaten animal faeces”, “rape” by camp warden, “peeping”, capital punishment or training regime!

Don’t you think Malaysia has the highest unknown illness in the world? by accounts of numerous media reports?

Scrap NS!

Anyone start a poll? I just started one on my blog for a simple YES or NO. If you are a parent, given a choice, will you send your kid to NS?

Take the poll at my blog.

Shiok Guy

3. Most of the cases looks like stemming from long term medical conditions which could have happened any where.

4. Statistically these cases are not significant as compared to the general population as pointed out by Najib.

In fact there are far more youths die of motobike accidents in a year than in NS camps. Shall we ban youths from riding motorbikes too ?

Ultimately, I believe the real issue is not these deaths but it is the kiasi / kiasu attitude of Malaysians. While their mouth speaks of Bangsa Malaysia, but their actions often are in pure self interest in the worst kiasu manner.

I had to admit that I am completely and utterly underwhelmed by the volume and the quality of the replies. It is not so often that we see so much is written with so little logical reasonings, data and facts to back it all up.

Sometimes I often wonder if I am at the blog operated by the People’s Action Party of Singapore or one managed by the Democratic Action Party of Malaysia. The intolerance and violent reactions to dissenting views and cyber intimidations makes me wonder if this is the kind of Malaysia we will get when DAP gets to rule our country one day.

Coming back to the issue at hand, I have nothing new to add. The numerous posts that followed my suggestions either completely failed to negate the points raised or opted to attack me personally.

Wel, just in case you have missed my earlier post, I shall repeat the key arguments that I put forward.

1. We cannot act drastically like banning NS as it is akin to banning driving due to the numerous road accidents. Saying that we have the freedom of choice in driving is a lame excuse and argument. While I don’t deny that in NS camp we don’t have a choice, the question of choice matters little. As far as I know, no Malaysian whom I know of has stopped driving because of these acciddents. Even if the accidents increase dramatically, I will bet that none of you here will call for a ban on driving even though you have the choice of not driving. What you would do is to blame the govt for the accidents and tell them to fix the problem.

If ruling gov does not want NS to be stopped, then PR should have a campaign to get as many signatures possible to bring this matter to our Agong’s attention. Go to the malls, markets, schools,…where there will be parents from all walks of life - the Rakyat. This will show whether the ears exist in BN…our PM says he has big ears…but what’s the use if it’s shut all the time. Maybe someone stuffed it with 2 submarines. If the gov not listening to the Rakyat, the last resort is our Agong. To start with, run a poll to gauge the Rakyat sentiments on this issue.

Stop the NS (Najib Service), save the money on food-programme or other more meanigful social service for the poor, disabled, orphans, homeless, lost-souls, etc. We will have to look into illegals as a humanity issue.

If the NS were to continue, the gov or relevant ministry MUST guarantee the health & safety of the trainees. At the moment, whenever there is a calamity, it’s always the trainee’s fault. Getting rape is also the trainee’s fault it seems. Getting food poisoning is also trainee’s fault. Dying of exhaustion is also trainee’s fault. Getting bullied is also trainee’s fault.

from now on, I shall call you the “banana killer” because you A.J.A.P.O.S!

AND THERE IS NO CONCLUSIVE PROOF IS BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE DO NOT WANT IT TO BE KNOWN!

You eat bananas all this while? Whose bananas was it? Taste nice?

Correction.

2. There are no conclussive proof that all these deaths were caused by negligence. These deaths certainly could be caused by human carelessness, of course. But even if there are deaths caused poor management, shouldn’t we focus on fixing those problems rather than sweeping the problems under the carpet by closing the NS program ?

=================================================

Dear dear killer,

what’s the difference between negligence and human carelessness?! And “of course” death resulting from “poor management” ?!

I can kill “the bird” with 1 stone here (hehe)

Stop your nonsense killer, as I can see from numerous posts in this blog and as bloggers had pointed to you, you missed the point time and again!!! Please allow me to put it in a few sentence for you, specially for you and your level of competence:

“WE DO NOT WANT DEATHS RESULTING FROM THE GREEDINESS OF SOME PEOPLE BEHIND THE NS PROGRAM” &

“THE NS WAS STARTED FIRST FOR PROFIT BEFORE NATIONAL UNITY” &

“IF WE FOCUS ON FIXING THOSE PROBLEMS, OKAY, IS 3 DEATHS ENOUGH FOR YOU TO FIX IT BEFORE IT BECAME 16″ (How long must it take killer, we can send spaceman to space with millions & billions, but we can’t STOP the childrens’ death with our resource???! Don’t you think there is something so wrong??!)

YCES!!!! What a lame idiot!!

That is why I said I still believed that people who are corrupt are eating rare human flesh & drinking blood and I will not regret a single word of it !!

2. There are no conclussive proof that all these deaths were caused by negligence. These deaths certainly could be caused by human carelessness, of course. But even if there are deaths caused poor management, shouldn’t we focus on fixing those problems rather than sweeping the problems under the carpet by closing the NS program ?

I had to admit that I am completely and utterly underwhelmed by the volume and the quality of the replies. It is not so often that we see so much is written with so little logical reasonings, data and facts to back it all up.

Sometimes I often wonder if I am at the blog operated by the People’s Action Party of Singapore or one managed by the Democratic Action Party of Malaysia. The intolerance and violent reactions to dissenting views and cyber intimidations makes me wonder if this is the kind of Malaysia we will get when DAP gets to rule our country one day.

Coming back to the issue at hand, I have nothing new to add. The numerous posts that followed my suggestions either completely failed to negate the points raised or opted to attack me personally.

Wel, just in case you have missed my earlier post, I shall repeat the key arguments that I put forward.

1. We cannot act drastically like banning NS as it is akin to banning driving due to the numerous road accidents. Saying that we have the freedom of choice in driving is a lame excuse and argument. While I don’t deny that in NS camp we don’t have a choice, the question of choice matters little. As far as I know, no Malaysian whom I know of has stopped driving because of these acciddents. Even if the accidents increase dramatically, I will bet that none of you here will call for a ban on driving even though you have the choice of not driving. What you would do is to blame the govt for the accidents and tell them to fix the problem.

2. There are no conclussive proof that all these deaths were caused by negligence. These deaths certainly caused by carelessness, of course. But even if there are deaths caused poor management, shouldn’t we focus on fixing those problems rather than sweeping the problems under the carpet by closing the NS program ?

3. Most of the cases looks like stemming from long term medical conditions which could have happened any where.

4. Statistically these cases are not significant as compared to the general population as pointed out by Najib.

In fact there are far more youths die of motobike accidents in a year than in NS camps. Shall we ban youths from riding motorbikes too ?

Ultimately, I believe the real issue is not these deaths but it is the kiasi / kiasu attitude of Malaysians. While their mouth speaks of Bangsa Malaysia, but their actions often are in pure self interest in the worst kiasu manner.

http://stopNSProgramme.blogspot.com

Parents and other concerned Malaysians have been expressing their anger and misgivings in the past couple of years about the NS programme after the numerous unnecessary deaths occurring related to participation in the programme. All these concerns have fallen on deaf ears. Excuses after excuses were given. Inquiries after inquiries were promised. But have we heard anything about the outcome of these inquiries? Have we seen any improvements in the management of the NS camps?

No! Instead we have now received the sad news that another NS trainee, Too Hui Min has died on 7 May 2008. According to the camp staff, this occurred after she complained of constipation for three days. Are we to believe the camp staff?

Najib said the number of deaths was a small percentage compared to the total trainees who had benefited from the programme. The NS Training Department director-general was quoted as saying that the training programme will not be scrapped “just because of one or two deaths”. These are callous comments similar to what the former Health Minister said last year that reports on the deaths of the trainees have been overblown and “the rate of death (of the trainees) is in fact much smaller than that in the general population”!

These comments are certainly no consolation to the parents who have lost their love ones because of the NS programme.

We have said it again and again. Not a single death due to the NS programme should be tolerated! The Defense Minister and the director-general of the NS Training Department and all others responsible for the implementation of the NS programme, regardless of their positions, must be held morally and even legally accountable for their negligence for these deaths.

They are negligent for not heeding the calls for review and suspension of the NS programmes after the NS-related deaths occurring in the past. They are negligent for not publicly releasing the inquiries they have made which should have exposed any shortcomings in the management of the camps. They are negligent for not taking appropriate actions and making improvements in the programme which can ensure that another death would not occur again.

Mind you, according to the notice for an emergency motion in Parliament tabled by an MP Fong Po Kuan, this is the third death in less than 2 months (the motion was rejected on the ground that it was not urgent!). In April, Afiz Zuhairi Ahmat Rozali a trainee in the Sentosa Chenderiang Camp died after having a fever.

Another trainee, Balammah died on 21 March 2008. She complained of severe chest pains after she returned from NS training on March 11. Family members suspect that she must have suffered internal injuries during the NS training which eventually led to her death.

We have had enough. No more excuses. No more inquiries. The ill-conceived NS programme must be scrapped immediately!

This time if the government do no heed the cries of anguished parents, all parents should boycott the NS programme and refuse to send the loved ones to NS programme.

Otherwise……we defy the Government Via BOYCOTT of NS…….see if they have Jail for tens of thousand of children…..In unison all over Malaysia…..THIS is TSUNAMI 3 from the Teenagers of Malaysia of all race…….A warning to UMNO-BN and lets organise a March to Agong Palace for Royal Commission on the Deaths of these Kids and the procedure and who is ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE….!!

===================================================

He is being paid enough to actually ignore all the 16 deaths, not counting road fatalities, KFC, McD & etc.

killer,

if you are in USA, and it happens that one of these KFC & McD guys came upon your comments, well, you’ll have a lot of explaining to do, man. Think before you blurt.

I sincerely and honestly hope that your good intentions and philosophy here doesn’t get too PERSONAL against (VS) the current serious situation of the Rakyat and young citizens of Malaysia are facing.

I thank you if I must if you are going to vote me for a Nobel prize, but to be frank, we are the losers in this current predicament, while the winners are those corrupted irresponsible profit motivated people running this and running that program in this country out of taxpayers money; i.e. your money and mine and those parents whose children has died!

Time for reflection, don’t you think?
There’s a saying in Chinese - ‘fall down and yet grab a handful of sand in the act.’ That’s what your concluding statement is. You have lsot by your own admission but do not know how to lose gracefully - just like BN, UMNO, MCA, MIC and Gerakan. And you do not have the intellectual ability or credentials to nominate your cat for the Nobel Prize. You haven’t measured up at all with your arguements in this thread, let alone challenge the cyrstal-clear logic posted by LUPUS in refuting each and every one of your emotionally-laden, ass-kissing statements.

Also time to change your handle - you are KILLING yourself with your kind of twisted thinking, logic and values.

Go comment on the Ali Rasuah, Toyol and Mud Tahi blogs…they love ass-kissing.

Well NS had any good media attention

When it started, it had cases of brawling, raping and what not.

Now that its going on “smoothly”, human lifes are at stake.

If the purpose of NS is to instill unity among the younger generations, than the DPM got the whole concept wrongly.

NS creates an even highly tensed competitive environment between the kids and that could lead to even utterly battered misunderstandings.

Scrap the NS immediately and instill something at school level that could allow inborn of unity. Create co-cu that are compulsory with rules and regulation that will make sure they attend it.

NS is definitely not the answer to create understanding or unity among the youngsters.

WELL SAID!

If our country has the RIGHT HUMAN RESOURCE AND/OR TECHNICAL EXPERTISE, NS would be GREAT!

No arguments with you!

Today at 01: 05.29 (9 hours ago)
kingkenny

Yes, you have won and that your arguments are logical, rational and simply the best solution for the NS problem. In fact it is a work of a genius par Einstein’s “On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies”….!! Bravo….I am going to nominate you for the Nobel Physics Prize this year.
—————————–
Killer,

Dont be emotional here and be sarcastic!!! dont just say it with your mouth but with your heart and you will learn.

While we remember those who died as a result of NajiS Death Camps, we should not forget about those who have broken legs and hands and other parts of their bodies which they will suffer for life (these will not be reported compared to death of trainees) which wont be the same again after the camp!!! Read my lips, Ms Too Hui Min will not be the last!!! I wonder how those people who are responsible can sleep in peace while there’s a time bomb undefused!!! May be these ex-service men had seen the worst i.e. soldiers killed while under training or during warfare with communist etc. !!!

AhPek, I think what freaked them out is the idea of training so many non-Malays to handle weapons…

/// Outward Bound School in Aberdovey England where the first outward bound school is borned…///

I think the first OBS was in Gordonstoun in Scotland in the 1930s. BTW, Aberdovey is in Wales, not England…

He is just joking.

Hence, all the parents want from the govt is the accountability of the training death: assurance that the death cases during NS training are properly investigated (preferably by independent committee of inquiry) to determine the cause of death and also to enable us to take all the necessary measures so that what can be prevented will not happen again.

If there is negligence found by those in charge of these trainees and those who do not adhere or comply to the operating procedure during NS training, then Attorney-General’s Chambers should proceed with criminal charges against these officers.

National Service call to parents
http://harismibrahim.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/national-service-call-to-parents/

That Lee Lam Thye fella and ‘the system’
http://harismibrahim.wordpress.com/2008/05/14/that-lee-lam-thye-fella-and-%e2%80%98the-system%e2%80%99/#comments

Singapore “NSmen death” search results from MinDef website:-
http://www.ns.sg/nsPortal/portlets/Search/iterate.do;NSPJSESSIONID=2l4pLrGVbgfZ82h75HHn9XQTSvvb2lXrWfkJDXRPZQV5y6zcvNbJ!-2130695426?pageNumber=2&pageSize=50&startIndex=0

It is between forced and voluntary, where the Malaysian Death Camps are forced upon the rakyat. Once selected, you go or you get charged.

It is about about having been given enough time to get it right! Even if there were teething problems that led to deaths at the start of the program, the authorities should have gotten it RIGHT to prevent further deaths! KILLER should know the threshhold allowable before the entire system needs to be reviewed - ONE SINGLE DEATH, that all it should take for the rakayt to demand a comprehensive review and full investigations! NOT 16 deaths, NOT 20 DEATHS. JUST ONE!

It is about objectives and a very publicised KEY OBJECTIVE was nation-building and integration of the races! The Malaysian Death Camps is a STUPID IDEA to foster better relationships between the races. If the EDUCATION SYSTYEM and SCHOOLS which hold our children captive for up to 13 years cannot do this when these children of all races spend an average minimum of 5 hours interacting in the classroom, in the canteen, on the field, in the gym and on the game courts, HOW IN THE WORLD CAN 3 FREAKING MONTHS DO WHAT 13 YEARS of moral studies, singing the NegaraKu every Monday morning, studying Melayu or in Melayu, sharing meals, eating together, playing and competing together, helping each other in the most important challenges in their young student lives - EXAMS!?

It is about Malaysia Boleh! Everything Can! Gaya ada, isi tak ada! Form is ‘impressive’, the substance is rotten!From all these deaths, we have concluded that the very heart of the program is ROTTEN! How can you talk about nation-building and integrating the races (all very noble) but at the same time the people responsible for this entire program ARE themselves ROTTEN! A system is a system! It can’t be wrought with such problems unless the people who conceived it, those who are overseeing it, those who are managing it, those who are implementing it and those who are MAKING MONEY out of it are both INCOMPETENT and ROTTEN!

Like it was posted earlier, a private, professionally run outfit would have been crucified, quartered and thrown to the wolves to devour had just ONE DEATH OCCURED! Just one and there would have been a thorough investigation TO PREVENT A REPEAT! But with our Malaysian Death Camps there have been 16 deaths, some even say here 21 deaths, OVER 5 years! When will this STOP!

KILLER, how much are you being paid to play your role as an agent of change on this blog? We all know there are people who ARE PAID write to blogs to influence opinion, discussion threads and debates. I don’t mind if you want to give a balanced view BUT when you push through your arguements which do not evenly address the issues, then you are just being plain and simple yet another BN/UMNO running dog doing the bidding of his master.

LKS,
Let’s start this so that the parents CAN take affirmative action to show they want the camps shut down NOW!

CONTRIBUTE RM1 TO SCRAP THE MALAYSIAN DEATHS CAMPS!

Stop defending the indefensible. Until and unless your UMNO masters demonstrate a level of competence and transparency, the NS programme should be suspended. One death is simply one too many.

The usual UMNO way of doing “bisnes” has to stop - especially when it involves innocent kids.

Lupus:
Yes, where there is a life to consider and where it is law to send them off with a very good chance of dying. The track record of NS death is not very good since 2003. We are not talking about people saying “I want to go to NS”. It about people being FORCED to go and losing their lives. You have shown in this statement that these young lives mean very little to you. These parents, esp the non-bumi ones have put so much hope, effort and love into those kids only to be cut short by a holiday camp. I WANT YOU TO LOOK THESE PARENTS IN THEIR EYES AND TELL THEM THAT THEIR CHILD HAVE LOST THEIR LIFE FOR A GOOD CAUSE. NS is a cause that should NEVER CAUSE LIVES.

# Killer Says:
“You are saying that if our roads are dangerous you have a choice of not driving and take care of our safety by other alternative means of transportation.
But this is an idiotic argument. How many Malaysians would resort to this choice of not driving? Instead we would ask the government to take the approporiate steps to make the roads safe for driving again.”

Lupus:
Why idiotic ? You said it - Malaysian DO HAVE A CHOICE of not driving - you have missed the point entirely - the laws allows Malaysian the CHOICE to drive or not to drive. Let’s make it simple for you to understand

Driving laws of Malaysia = you can drive or not drive, as long as you have a license.
NS laws of Malaysia = your name is called up, you must report of training.

As to asking the Govt to take appropriate steps of making the road safer? A easy task for anyone here - Is there a requirement for cars in Malaysia legislation, act, laws that tell the car industry in Malaysia the min safety requirement ? How about you try and get the Malaysian Govt to adopt just one requirement to make our cars alittle safer - EURO NCAP 64km/hr frontal impact requirements. It only one of the hundreds of legal safety requirements that overseas cars are subjected to. It should not be hard to bring it into law as BN can just rip off the laws. Just one. You try it and get it done before the next GE.

# Killer Says:
“Your argument of shutting down NS camps because of the deaths is akin to asking the government to ban driving because of the bloodbaths on our roads.”

Lupus:
Again let me make it simple for you to understand
NS Camp = I tell you that you have to go and if you don’t go, I will arrest you and drag your a** to camp
Driving bloodbath = Idiots choose to drive like idiots, THEY CHOOSE TO DRIVE LIKE MORONS and kill people and contribute to the bloodbath.

# Killer Says:
‘I am also find it hard to phantom the typical Malaysian parent’s mindset of not allowing their kids to attend NS camp for some of the lamest reasons. They don’t understand how the camps are being run or the effectiveness of the NS program. They don’t talk to the kids who had attended the course. They keep harping for Bangsa Malaysia but yet do not wish to contribute to that concept by alowing their kids attend the NS camp.”

Lupus:
Again, you have missed the point entirely. Read the statements posted by LKS. ANOTHER DEATH - while you can argue that no typical Malaysian parent’s would not support the idea of NS - I find it HARD TO PHANTOM ANY TYPICAL MALAYSIAN PARENT MINDSET TO SEND THEIR KIDS TO DIE IN SOME NS CAMP FOR SOME OF THE LAMEST RESONS. Bangsa Malaysia goals should not cause such a young life to be cut short.

# Killer Says:
“My suggestions are simple.
1. Review the effectiveness of the program. This has to be done by an independent panel. I wouldn’t want any politicians in at all.
If the review says it has NOT been beneficial, then I am all for scapping it. But if the review says it has been useful, then go to Step 2.
2. Review the current system to find out the weaknesses and make a comprehensive recommendations on how to overcome them.”

Lupus:
It has already failed the effectiveness program - people are dying since 2003 - question is how many more must die ? AND NO POLICITIAN CHILD OR GRANDCHILD have ATTENDED NS CAMP. You don’t need a review to tell you that X amount of death is NOT a benefit to us.

Furthermore - it shows how little you understand about NS camps. You maybe a product of a NS camp - who knows ? I have inside knowledge of oversea military initial courses aka boot camps (and not in ASEAN countries and yes I served in the military as well), most of these young Malaysian should be able to fair very well. The only different I see is since 2003, the death rate is one of the highest and this is usually an indication of something is very wrong. A death of a boot camp usually follows an inquiry (usually finding are out within the year) and rare to see anyone not held accountable. Reviews are automatically done in the event of any death and the programs or parts of it, suspended until the investigation is reported. Staff are trained before they become instructor in these camps - not any tom, dick or harry who has a rank. These are qualified, purpose trained military instructor to handle young men and women and to ensure safety of these young people. Afterall, dead people have not benefit. I like to see what sort of training these NS instructor have. Have they had a background check too ? Do they have a criminal background eg. are they sex offenders ?
So, you tell me and in fact, I dare you to publish any full inquiry finding on this blog of one NS death that identify the cause.

Yes, you have won and that your arguments are logical, rational and simply the best solution for the NS problem. In fact it is a work of a genius par Einstein’s “On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies”….!! Bravo….I am going to nominate you for the Nobel Physics Prize this year.

it also seem to me that your “high” philosophy is to see dozens of death before some thing could be considered grave.

I wonder how it had gone to that state? Irrational maybe?

I still believed in it

Conclude your argument?….well, you don’t have to, you have already lost your basis.

Soldiers and police force in this country are served better and more humane meals in their own respective institutions. Moreover they are not bound to have the meals served to them.

Do the NS trainees have any choice other than the meals served to them?

You are so farcical & hypocrite.

I am not about to descend to your level by resorting to name-calling.

I think you missing the point that if these people are corrupted and as inefficient as you had claimed, then we would be seeing people dying by dozens not only in NS camps but also in the army and police training camps.

Anyway you are the one who had stated “THEY ARE DRINKING BLOOD AND EATING HUMAN FLESH….RARE!!!!!!!!!”…..As such I will conclude my arguments as it is impossible to debate with an irrational person.

teach all the craps which onli in Malaysia can be used. And they assign u to all the Kampong Kampong separated from ur family.

thank you…pai seh laaa

The govt. are doing a weak childrens cleansing, so that all Malaysian children will be stronger, those weak children will be punished with death at the NS camp.

Good Job Najis, see how many life died today for ur little toy program.

And PL will be laughing all the way to the bank, with all the benefits claimed from the Malaysian pockets or Petronas.

I honestly think you should refrain from making any more debate here or pose your suggestions. In fact, I just now realized that you have been missing the point the whole while you are here in this blog and in your life here Malaysia. You are an idiot and an ignorant one at that. Why? Because:

1. You have missed the whole point of what had saddened so many people in this blog & the whole country over.

2. You have ignored the many facts laid bare in front of you that this is indeed a ‘corrupt country’, why do you reckon that PM Abdullah first slogan was eliminating ‘Rasuah’ when he first took mandate to lead?

3. You are arguing not based on facts, results, and merit but based on your presumed good character, qualification, experiences and the trustworthiness of “Retired captains & generals”. Do generals cook, may I ask??!

4. Don’t say something that is in direct contradiction with what you preach. As youngsters of this generation are a “pampered” lot (according to you), then certainly a different device or system should be implemented to maximize their potential. An idiot layman like you knew, the government should do better. What do you expect of others kids? Train them like Mike Tyson?

5. And, you should know that even “retired captains & generals” are experienced, how sure are you sure canteen staffs & workers are too? There is a government directives that say food handlers are required to attend a Food Handling Course and at the end of it get Certified. Basically it covers food hygiene. Can they produce the cert? What about typhoid injection card? Can they produce that either? Those canteens are tendered to family members and staffs are hired to work it, so you see, generals don’t cook, idiot!

6. Nobody here said or suggest driving be banned because of too many fatalities, ONLY that Kopi-O license should NOT retain as a common PRACTICE in Malaysia to lower fatalities, conflicts and improve COMPETENCY.

7. I believe also your father and elders came from the Outward Bound School era, even though they may not attend. Ask your elders is it 2 weeks better than 3months now IN OUR CURRENT SITUATION??! We are talking about precious human lives here, moron.

8. And when you say that those “experienced” generals were used to serve food to a large group of people, well, I think you should think before you blurt, these are 18 year olds we are talking about here and they are no soldiers! My dad was a soldier, believe me, eating in a kenduri is not the norm.

9. To review the effectiveness of the system you say? When a girl was raped by a camp warden and another was poisoned and died, what sort of review are you talking about?! Very plainly, we lack proper qualified human resource at this moment in time to conduct this NS thingy! How would you like it, if your daughter is a victim??!

10. Lastly (relief for you), I attended SK Rendah and Menengah, I can speak in a Malay slang, have a Malay abang angkat in Machang, numerous funny Indian friends and of course my own yellow type of friends. Let me tell you, killer, I don’t need NS to tell me the difference of patriotic & unpatriotic, just & unjust, corrupt & incorrupt, effective & ineffective, united & disunited and of course the difference between an idiot and a smart guy.

Please don’t harassed and/or belittle the intelligence of bloggers here, thank you.

I support the idea of DAP or PR setting up a Fund for NS Trainee Calamities to help support those who suffered the loss of loved ones. It may not bring back the loved one but it will help them to cover certain unexpected costs arising from the death, or even for medical bills, etc. Death is by far the most crucial calamity of the NS.

I am sure RPK will challenge everyone to beat the record of the Bloggers Fund. My RM 1 is ready. Just have to start it. If all EPF contributors make RM 1 only, we could have potentially 10 Million collected in 1 day. That’s true people power.

The ball is in your court to get the fund raising going.

We must also ask ourselves: In what way will NS contribute to the nation? Be realistic, at this day & age. I think we were also not well prepared for NS.

Social Service (SS) would be much better put to use as human-resource than NS. Not everyone was born to be Rambo. Confine NS to school drop-outs, juvenile criminals (example)…rather than “encouraging” them to joining police/army (why do you think our police standards are so low). Some even end up as mat-rempits or snatch-thieves. If NS is preached to make every Malaysian a better person, why not take in these people (I don’t mean to categorise insentitively). Statistically, most drop-outs come from poor & broken families. I can’t believe no MP thought of that.

The NS will also better prepare them to continue to join the security forces - better trained & educated. It’s well known that even the US Marine Corps have a fleet of engineers, etc. Most having university degrees even! No need to mention the British Brigades or even the S’pore Elite Commandoes.

I say stop the NS for now - save the nation hundred of millions for a start - surely there are more important issues to channel the money saved (& I don’t mean sending another idiot to space). At least use the money to buy more food for the poor, more so now.

PLEASE review, revise & improve the NS before continuing further. Who will die next? This is what I can suggest to Tan Sri LLT, Chairman of NS. I would have thought a man of his stature & respect would have thought of this.

It is now not only the death of an NS trainee…but also many other cases of rape, bully, etc in the past. I am sure there are many more unknown cases that are not reported - perhaps less critical than death & rape.

National integration begins in school, as early as pre-school. Not at 16 & above!

Also since when teaching the youth to be better citizens a job of the government. This is the job of every parent the day they were born & at home, not at death-camps.

The wage earner complains to much leapk and ramshit in the city and towns, the MP say …ah no discipline from home , all loyal citizens busy building nation no time for kids…..lets give them discipline….ah yes one MP says let make like army camp and be discipline

the wage earner says rice too expensive, the MP says ah this one is world problem lets buy more now before we starve our loyal subjek.

the wage earner says toolll too expensive, ah the MP says this one is your fault you should take the bus if you cannot afford, you must live within your means be prudent , please.

They are the arrogant fools who upset the racial harmony in Malaysia, then they try to salvage (so called) it by having the NS instead of ‘ketuanan rakyat’ policies, with ‘lobang to currupt’ in mind (everyone knows who are the one who got all the contract for the NS camps, facilities, etc..). They placed a good HEAD (Tan Sri) but no competent soldiers to run the camp efficiently. That’s why many unfortunate incidents happened. Many things are actually ta’boleh on this boleh-land!

It is best to stop the NS especially during this hard time. Promote racial-harmony through fair deeds by the government (not only say but must been ’seen’ to be fair), through fair treatments to all schools and students irrespective of race and religion; the over-zealous ‘moral police’ in many schools are turning non-muslim students away and building up resentment towards them. How could this promote racial harmony?