oh, oh…. dont tell me uncle’s also suffering from a weak heart too. well, the playground here is one hell of a ruthless and heartless one, no place for an old emotional old man!

see… pls dont hijack this thread for your personal outburst, let’s get back to our discussion on dispensing rights!

nus,
it’s such a waste of resources to ask another blogger to summarise what transpired here. u can always scroll to read what others have posted (u do know how, right… if not, i can always teach u).

Thanks. Please teach me.

Imagine scrolling 228 inputs. It is blurring and teary for an old chap like me.

all written in a blog are supposed to be read by each individual, and they can put in their feedback. thats how a blog works. and it’s very unproductive to ask another to do make summaries of pros and cons etc. dont expect to be spoonfed like the corrupted UMNOputeras lah! always longing for handouts…. sigh!

The government wants chemists to play a greater role in providing care for those with minor ailments, potentially freeing up GPs for more serious ills.

It believes pharmacists are a vastly under-used resource who could easily provide diagnosis for some conditions as well as dispensing treatments.

Primary care trusts - responsible for local health services - already have the power to ask more of chemists.

But the extent to which they do so varies greatly across England.

This is what the government wants to address in a new White Paper, which is designed to encourage PCTs to commission more services from pharmacies by outlining exactly how they could assist.

It is estimated the proposals could save 57 million GP consultations a year.

Health Minister Ben Bradshaw said pharmacists were health professionals capable of dealing with minor ailments, screening for diseases and giving health advice.

“As 99% of the population can get to a pharmacy within 20 minutes, everyone will benefit from more types of treatment available through local pharmacies who can prescribe more, advise more and deal with more.”

Smoking and pregnancy

The kind of services envisaged include vaccinations, help with quitting smoking, and management of long-term conditions like asthma and diabetes.

The “health MoTs” - checks for heart disease, stroke, diabetes and kidney disease for the over-40s announced earlier this week, are also a target.

Many chemists are also already involved in tackling teenage pregnancy, with powers to distribute the morning-after-pill.

The British Medical Association (BMA) broadly supports the move, while the Royal Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain (RPSGB) also welcomed the news.

“Research has shown that the vast majority of the public has easy access to pharmacies: 99% of the population can reach a community pharmacy by car, by walking or by public transport within 20 minutes,” said Paul Bennet, RPSGB chairman.

Sue Sharpe, chief executive of the Pharmaceutical Services Negotiating Committee said better use of pharmacists could save GPs an hour of consultation time a day.

“We have a tremendous resource in community pharmacists - we’ve got 10,500 in England alone - and they see people with minor ailments every day of the week.

“There is a real opportunity to use the community pharmacy network to take a burden off GPs.”

But David Stout, director of the Primary Care Trust Network, said that while involving pharmacies was a good idea in practice, it was not always easy for PCTs to find the funding.

“Unfortunately everything costs money, and when you commission services from a pharmacy to free up doctors, you’re still paying the same amount to each GP practice - so it doesn’t release any funds.”

“PCTs are working under significant financial constraints, and have to prioritise.”

New contract

The Conservatives also support the idea of using chemists, but said the government had promised in 2005 to do more on this front when it introduced the new community pharmacy contract.

This gave pharmacists the ability to operate as “supplementary prescribers” - handing out repeat prescriptions to prevent patients having to go back to their doctors.

But according to the Tories, figures show that in England just 101 pharmacies provided supplementary prescribing services in 2006/07 out of more than 10,000 community pharmacies.

“All the evidence shows that, three years later, the government has failed to use the contract to deliver the new services it promised,” the party said in a statement.

The Confederation of British Industry (CBI) says involving pharmacies could in the long term save money.

“Seeing a pharmacist costs far less than a GP appointment, and as people are generally seen when they are relatively healthy, problems can be identified before they become a significant long-term risk,” its director of public services, Dr Neil Bentley, said.

But Professor Steve Field, chairman of the Royal College of GPs, said although he welcomed extending the role of pharmacists it may not save GP time.

“By involving pharmacists in preventative healthcare and screening, GPs will actually be busier as we will be identifying more patients who might otherwise slip through the net.

“We believe that there are opportunities for pharmacists to work much more closely with patients - but this needs to be done in partnership with GPs and primary healthcare teams, not instead of.”

thankyou in advance lakilompat.

How hard it is to adopt 1st world methodologies?

We can’t adopt 1st world methodologies, because our education level is weak too many ppls. scored ‘A’ s, too many multiple choice questions. All these intelligent ‘tikam’ students do they read English Novels and have freedom to express themselves & encourage in public debates on countries affair? Some chinese school might have political debate competition etc. which is pretty good. But the problem is our leader very seldom have a successful 1st world methodologies story to tell Rakyat. After 50 yrs of independent do we have any successful 1st world methodologies implemented?

1) Our banking liberalization still falling behind.
2) Our education, quota system, all chinese or indian were forced to send their childrens study overseas, or private college, as govt. University are limited, major quotas for the Malays.
3) Proton is making loss, can you believe it, a milo tin car that sell twice higher than a typical branded sedan overseas.
4) MAS is making loss
5) Govt. have no money to build bridge from Johor to Singapore but prepare to pay concession for the penalty.
6) Govt. rather buy shukoi jet & submarines to fill their pockets with big fat commissions.
7) Our press, media, and radio are controlled by the ruling party not the general public.

When pocket become more important, the rakyat will be deny forever the 1st class methodologies.

my, my, my, nus… most of your arguments have already been raised and answered. the diff is u rephrased them! come out with something new…. pleeeeeeeeeeeeease!

Hi deja vu,

Thanks for your comments.

Since we are all commenting like everyone is talking at the same time, we can miss out on earlier comments. Maybe you being very knowledgeable could kindly make, for the benefit of those would log on halfway, a list of all the previously mentioned pros and cons and give an unbiased, fair, logical and reasonable summary.

No, I am not saying if pharmacist having dispensing right will stop those abuse altogether. But it’s a step in the right direction and doctor that prescribe excessively or in irresponsible manner will know the pharmacist dispensing it will know about it. Not good for reputation, you know

In this case, it is good to have a party that do not gain any financial benefit to determine whether or not that particular medicine is needed. Even so, there are doctors in these countries that actually sell prescription of sleeping pills to addicts. However, they are doing that with a risk of having the pharmacist who dispense the medicine report them to the health ministry for inethical practice. If, the pharmacist are also inethical and in turn, dispense the sleeping pills to that person, knowing fully well that it will be abused, then he also risk being sent to the board of ethics.

Now, in the local scenario, it is not the case. Doctors often claim that pharmacists are selling antibiotics without prescription. Not only that, antibiotics are also available for sale in coffee shops and the pasar malam (night market). No doubt, these are all abuse of antibiotics. However, what else can you expect when the supposedly guardian of the abuse of antibiotics and sleeping pills are abusing it themselves? Yes, pharmacists risk the wrath of the law for illegal sales of antibiotics and sleeping pills. Vendors in the night market risk being put in jail for doing this. However, an unscrupulous doctor can freely abuse it without much fear. All this, is because they stand to gain financially.

There is a joke saying out of 100 patients who walk into a clinic run by an unscrupulous doctor with fever, 99 of them walk out with a pack of antibiotics. The one who did not walk out of the clinic with a pack of antibiotics is so unfortunate that he visit the clinic when the clinic ran out of antibiotics.

As was mentioned in the link that I had put earlier, not all patient with fever should be put in antibiotics and those. This is what we call rational prescribing. Without rational prescribing, there is no difference between antibiotics being made a prescription only medicine or a common medicine just like paracetamol (Panadol) can is available anywhere and so easy/convenient for a patient to buy off the shelves.

You never failed to amuse me. Luckily you active in this blog after 8/3 tsunami election, no chance for LKS to put you as MP candidate, otherwise you will be a well known DAP bocor parlimentarian like abang Buang.

i am writing all these more for the benefit of the younger generation pharmacists in this country. and i do not deny that it would be a nice sending off for this old man if we do see this ‘right’ returned to the rightful owner before i march out.

i do not think dispensing separation will be very rewarding monetary to the pharmacists in the first place. but it is more for the dignity and due recognition.

at this moment i am still waiting eagerly for lakilompat’s reply.

1)
Dr says “Pharmacist selling Prescription Drug without prescription”
Pharmacist reply “But in the first place, Dr never issue any prescription at all”. Then Dr keep quiet.

2)
Then Dr says, there are no 24 hour pharmacy. Pharmacist reply “Give us the Dispensing Seperation and you will see 24 hr pharmacist, it is a matter of supply and demand”. Dr keep quiet again.

3) Then Dr says, price will go up. This I say, “You want quality service, you have to pay. A pharmacist is a human being and he/she is carrying out a public duty, why shouldn’t he/she be paid a wage. Simple as that” . Furthermore, like Deja-vu said, why seek specialist (Cardiologist, Oncologist or Neuro-surgeon)… let your Cardiologist treat your tooth-ache, deliver babies, operate on your brain. After all, you want convenient, one stop centre.

Life does not have to stop at the pharmacy counter especially when the Malaysian public doesn’t want you anyway or are not ready for you. Don’t roll in your self pity if they wanted to have 3rd class health service. Look positive, change your attitude, and consider yourself too good for them. Do something else. Besides gaining a very solid foundation in science, you should be able to acquire excellent analytical skill and maturity to do many other things beside pharmacy. I have seen some pharmacist using that merely as stepping stone and was successful. But the majority does not think out of the box and suffers in silent. One common fault I found of highly educated people is there inability to lower their self esteem. If its monetary rewards you wanted most, lower your entry point by taking up a salesman job or be an insurance salesperson and with your training background, you can kick a lot of assess.

On the other hand, should you want to have a better career in pharmaceutical industry, you should go join your professional body, to speak out (public speaking skill comes in handy and I would recommend you go check out the dirt cheap Toastmasters program), be one of its leaders and try to educate the very ignorant public of which there are many, including Dr. Milton. You should excuse their ignorant which, more than anything else, is probably a sign of the failing of our educational system. I hold belief that people are all basically good; just need better environment and motivation to reach the goodness in them.

And the most important thing of all is to be happy doing what you are doing. You can never be good at anything if you aren’t happy. Cheer up. There more to life out there in the world waiting for you. I wish you all the best.

i dont know how KJ can manipulate all these. but if he has the money (tangkap dia if u can prove his money is dirty) u cant stop another person from venturing into business.

lakilompat, we will appreciate more if u can comment on the BBC report above and also what KKK had written regarding 3rd world mentallity and how hard it is to adopt 1st world methodologies.

Malaysia is 10 or 20 yrs backward compare to those countries in term of its economy liberalization. The Malaysian pharmacist are not ready for this, trust me. Only big pharmacy chain can gain from such liberalization by the MOH. Big pharmacy have the economic power to suppress varieties of drugs, whereas small pharmacy have to stock up from them. Behind this, Khairy will gain as it has become apparent, he will divest his funds to develop pharmacy chains. Another gold mine for him.

If u are observant enough this thread is originally started by a doctor, and has a huge follow up from doctors echoing his claims. Why did they disappeared all of a sudden? Really makes me wonder. I assume they run out of words. Anyway if u are a doctor just reveal urself and talk like a man. Don’t be so boh hud (it means no balls literally).

I am very free, everyday, because I got NO PRESCRIPTION to fill ever since I operate my pharmacy. Working hours wise, denifitely longer than that of doctors. I reckon I can make more than most people, but there is NO JOB SATISFACTION in it. People asking to see pharmacist to ask for discount. Every once in a while u hear arrogant and ignorant comments from doctors like chua soi liap and milton lum pa (if u know what that means in hokkien) making , my blood pressure is shooting high and I think I’m bound to die from heart attack (I prefer dying immediately rather than being admmited to any private hospital and later to come out bed ridden with expensive bills).

Call me rude , call me sloth (for being so free), I don’t care. The only persons I need to apologise here are my counterparts, for failing to use more civilised words. If any under age students or children happen to read my comments, sorry, they are meant for adults actually. I’m gonna leave this thread anyway.

Keep them coming…..

1. the vast majority of Malaysian posses 3rd class mentality and knowledge about what’s really happening in the 1st world.

2. they have absolutely no concept as to how country like UK became advanced 1st world. And why Malaysia is rightly called 3rd world.

3. even when shown a well proven and documented better & safer drug supply system, 3rd class Malaysian citizen still wanted to remain 3rd class. And of course they has every right to choose that just like they have a right to choose a government. But in this case, MOH should be commented in trying to pull our drug supplies into 1st world standard. But guess what, they got bashed, even by political parties that fight to have 1st world democracy but not 1st world safety standard for patients. How ironic.

4. frighteningly distorted information given by some of the supposedly cream of Malaysian society, the doctor themselves on pharmacist. Dr. Milton saying pharmacist do not study pharmacology aka lawyer do not studying law is the most hilarious. If deliberate, then their ethic & morality is suspect and prove even our Malaysian doctors are 3rd class. If non-deliberate, it show a frighteningly total lack of knowledge & wisdom so our Malaysian doctor are truly 3rd class.

5. By starting this thread, it shows that our main opposition political party in Malaysia only know how to oppose. They do not know how to govern yet. Again, 3rd class standard.

Conclusion. We are 3rd class country primarily because her people wanted to remain 3rd class and make no effort to change themselves. When you have attitude like that, how are we ever going to be 1st class in every other fields of achievement? To become 1st class, we ourselves must change or else everything else is poppycock. But are they solely to blame? I don’t think so because the pharmacist society must take the 1st step in education the general public about her role. And people in power or will be in power like the DAP must do the same. So there you have it, education is the key. Only when people become better educated and informed, will they want to change. And that include Dr. Milton.

Page last updated at 10:34 GMT, Thursday, 3 April 2008 11:34 UK
Chemists ‘to offer GP services’

The government wants chemists to play a greater role in providing care for those with minor ailments, potentially freeing up GPs for more serious ills.

It believes pharmacists are a vastly under-used resource who could easily provide diagnosis for some conditions as well as dispensing treatments.

Primary care trusts - responsible for local health services - already have the power to ask more of chemists.

But the extent to which they do so varies greatly across England.

This is what the government wants to address in a new White Paper, which is designed to encourage PCTs to commission more services from pharmacies by outlining exactly how they could assist.

It is estimated the proposals could save 57 million GP consultations a year.

Health Minister Ben Bradshaw said pharmacists were health professionals capable of dealing with minor ailments, screening for diseases and giving health advice.

“As 99% of the population can get to a pharmacy within 20 minutes, everyone will benefit from more types of treatment available through local pharmacies who can prescribe more, advise more and deal with more.”

Smoking and pregnancy

The kind of services envisaged include vaccinations, help with quitting smoking, and management of long-term conditions like asthma and diabetes.

The “health MoTs” - checks for heart disease, stroke, diabetes and kidney disease for the over-40s announced earlier this week, are also a target.

Many chemists are also already involved in tackling teenage pregnancy, with powers to distribute the morning-after-pill.

The British Medical Association (BMA) broadly supports the move, while the Royal Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain (RPSGB) also welcomed the news.

“Research has shown that the vast majority of the public has easy access to pharmacies: 99% of the population can reach a community pharmacy by car, by walking or by public transport within 20 minutes,” said Paul Bennet, RPSGB chairman.

Sue Sharpe, chief executive of the Pharmaceutical Services Negotiating Committee said better use of pharmacists could save GPs an hour of consultation time a day.

“We have a tremendous resource in community pharmacists - we’ve got 10,500 in England alone - and they see people with minor ailments every day of the week.

“There is a real opportunity to use the community pharmacy network to take a burden off GPs.”

But David Stout, director of the Primary Care Trust Network, said that while involving pharmacies was a good idea in practice, it was not always easy for PCTs to find the funding.

“Unfortunately everything costs money, and when you commission services from a pharmacy to free up doctors, you’re still paying the same amount to each GP practice - so it doesn’t release any funds.”

“PCTs are working under significant financial constraints, and have to prioritise.”

New contract

The Conservatives also support the idea of using chemists, but said the government had promised in 2005 to do more on this front when it introduced the new community pharmacy contract.

This gave pharmacists the ability to operate as “supplementary prescribers” - handing out repeat prescriptions to prevent patients having to go back to their doctors.

But according to the Tories, figures show that in England just 101 pharmacies provided supplementary prescribing services in 2006/07 out of more than 10,000 community pharmacies.

“All the evidence shows that, three years later, the government has failed to use the contract to deliver the new services it promised,” the party said in a statement.

The Confederation of British Industry (CBI) says involving pharmacies could in the long term save money.

“Seeing a pharmacist costs far less than a GP appointment, and as people are generally seen when they are relatively healthy, problems can be identified before they become a significant long-term risk,” its director of public services, Dr Neil Bentley, said.

But Professor Steve Field, chairman of the Royal College of GPs, said although he welcomed extending the role of pharmacists it may not save GP time.

“By involving pharmacists in preventative healthcare and screening, GPs will actually be busier as we will be identifying more patients who might otherwise slip through the net.

“We believe that there are opportunities for pharmacists to work much more closely with patients - but this needs to be done in partnership with GPs and primary healthcare teams, not instead of.”

the best thing is u dont have to sit and wait for your turn, like in a clinic, no one enjoy that kind of ‘waiting’, full of ‘dont-know-whats-gonna-happened-next’ kind of feeling. in a pharmacy setting, while waiting for your turn u get to browse around, look @ some interesting things as well, sometimes u can even get lipsticks too, surely can save time to pick up a dozen of french caps same time! good huh?

now u see our point? God help these bunch of ppl, pls!

You are probably right when you say that it is all about money. Let me tell you why and give you a scenario. Take a look at this website:

http://rationalmedicine.org/drugs/antibiotics_abuse.htm

and

http://rationalmedicine.org/drugs/antibiotics_abuse2.htm

Take a look at the following situation.

Now this may be a bit technical and you may not understand it completely, but I believe you will understand the rough picture.

As written in the website, in most situation when you have fever, you do not need antibiotics. Like I mentioned in my previous post, in countries with dispensing separation, they do not prescribe antibiotics unless in special circumstances that they know that the patient has a bacterial infection which will not got away by itself, and I did mention that most patient that visit a clinic are people with cough, cold, flu and fever.

Now, do you need a doctor to tell you that you are actually having fever? You don’t even need a pharmacist to tell you that. In fact, if you have a 6 year old son, ask him to put his hand on your forehead and tell you if you are having fever. He will do just as good a job.

So, why then do you need to consult a doctor? Well, certainly it is to get the antibiotics, right?

Now, go back to the link to the website I had given. You will see that more often than not, you do not need that antibiotics. Your fever will heal by itself just as quickly without them. So, why do you need to pay RM45.00 consulting a doctor who will give you something you do not actually need?

Tell you a secret. In countries that have dispensing separation, research had shown that the people actually SAVE money, yes, you did not need to get your eyes checked. SAVE MONEY!

The main reason is, the people will soon learn that most of the time, they do not actually need to consult a doctor. They only need to consult a doctor when they need a condition diagnosed of for checkups, etc. They don’t need a doctor to tell them they are having fever, cough, sold and flu.

That is why they are trying to mislead people. For anyone who read this, who is not on either side, just take some time and evaluate things. Have I not disprove each and every arguments that was brought up? You will soon see the difference between facts and fallacy.

Perhaps we should make life more convenient and cheaper too by only having GPs/general surgeons to diagnose/operate whatever illnesses we have, why so troublesome travel up & down to see dentists, cardiologists, neurologists….. tak payahlah.

lakilompat!! don’t you think is a great idea. You no need to jump anymore, so tiring, lakitidur will do, comfortable and relax.

confession - MOST retail pharmacists do this!!! yes, i am talking the majority of us! why? yes, for survival!
prescriptions - we dont see much of these, let alone one that is properly written (most doctors either do not bother to write a legally proper script or do not even know what a proper one should be!).
to solve this - make it compulsory for doctors to write proper prescriptions for EVERY case, yes, every case.
then, and only then the choice of either buying from the doctor or their preferred pharmacy is in the patients’ own hands!

DR D.P. LEE wrote: when it comes to drug usage, interactions, indications and effects on patients, a doctor is the best person to consult.
what will he do if someone brought to him a bag full of various meds to him (this is very common in a pharmacy)? would he be spending his precious time explaining to this patient (who is not sick in the first place), can u see this ‘best person to consult’ doing what normally a pharmacist do and dont charge a cent?

Guest people can be divided by so much thing even profession.”The Pharmacist are being marginalised huh?”.Guest we can do a “Pharma Sakhti” next.Although 6000 is still a dimunitive figure.

Whatever the reason given,Its obvious that the real intention/motive is MONEY.Theres no other way around it.

In todays NST, a respondent says
“IT is appalling to hear statements from the Malaysian Pharmaceutical Society past president claiming that doctors do not know about the side effects of medicines and drug interactions. Such a sweeping statement is not only misleading but highly disrespectful.”

It made me reread each and every word that was written in all the articles on dispensing separation carefully and the closest I had come to read from a statement from Mr. John Chang was “doctors cannot claim that they are expert in this field”. I remember what Mr. Lim Guan Eng said, “If you want to hit me, don’t hit me on the groin.” Well, or something like that.

I had written countless letters of opinion to the News Strait Times but none of them was ever published. I am not disappointed about that as I believe there must be countless letters of opinions sent either by doctors or pharmacists on this issue. However, I am, shall I say, faberghastered to see such blatant letter that twist the words to dishonour someone was chosen to be published.

I would like to state that dispensing separation would hardly bring about much, if any at all, financial benefits to community pharmacists running our own pharmacy. It will be the big chain pharmacies that will gain the biggest. In fact, being a small business owner, it may even come as a threat rather than an opportunity. I had always told my fellow community pharmacist, “When and if dispensing separation come about, be aware of a possible storm that may come forth as we can expect to see a high increase of the number of chain pharmacy outlets.” It is blatant for anyone to accuse that pharmacists will be drooling over this and expect to laugh our ways to the bank.

Perhaps we are going about this the wrong way. Perhaps all the pharmacists in the government hospital should hand in their letters of resignation, stating that well, why don’t you get doctors to do the job. They claim that they are better at it.

To be very bold, I am not disappointed if the Ministry of Health suddenly make a “U” turn as say there will not be such project. It is the people who will suffer most as we continue to prefer the “typewriter over the computer”. I am just disappointed to see how low some doctors, someone who is suppose to be a respected figure, will go to mislead, accuse and dishonour another profession.

I am a man of my words. I don’t hide behind an anonymous name. My name is Lim Kah Poh. I am a pharmacist and I am proud to be one! Yes, I am here to defend and disprove any false accusation made against my profession. If you want to make any accusation, do it like a man.

I can only pity the pharmacist to be in such a lousy profession in Malaysia. In Australia, a fresh accounting graduate earns A$30K. A fresh engineer graduate A$40K to AK50K. But the highly appreciated fresh pharmacist earn A$80K so why bother coming back to Malaysia when people think you are a nobody here? From what I read in this forum, Malaysian wanted to remain a 3rd world country when it come to drug supplies. And I can understand why some don’t stay inside their pharmacy because they are not wanted anyway. So to these pharmacists, immigrate to Australia etc is your answer. You are not wanted in Malaysia. Period. Not even for-the-Rakyat DAP.

As for me, I would hope Malaysia can move forward toward a better and safer drug supply system and pay for the pharmacist services. It’s far better than sending some tourist into space and for what?

Is it wrong to spend money building hospitals using rakyat money? Is it wrong to spend money to buy expensive but necessary X-Ray machines using rakyat money? Is it wrong to spend money to pay salaries of doctor and hospital worker using rakyat money? Likewise, is it wrong for MOH to try make things better for patient in term of drug quality and safety using Rakyat money? Personally, I don’t think those things are wrong.

We should not question MOH motive in this issue because that’s a correct way to move forward in providing safer & better care to patient. Instead, we should debate as to whether we are ready for better care and whether we are willing to pay for it. And for people like lakilompat, your choice is you don’t want better care because you don’t want to spend more money on it. Ditto those who don’t want better care because it causes you inconveniences. Those are you people’s choice and I respect your decision.

As I said many times before, the Rakyat can choose to remain a 3rd world country as far as safety of medicine supply & conveniences are concerned and therefore, not spending any more money and save on inconveniences. On the other hand, if the Rakyat wanted same 1st class standard as enjoyed by advanced 1st world, then the Rakyat will have to spend money and inconveniences going to the pharmacy. Which way the Rakyat decide is not important but the important thing is, the Rakyat must be given all the facts from both side that’s fair, logical and correct to base their decision on.

And those who provided wrong and misleading facts to the Rakyat are doing this country a great disservice and should rightly be condemned by all right minded Malaysian. For example, saying Lawyer do not study Law or Engineer do not study Physic or Pharmacist do not study pharmacology or Doctor know more more about medicinal product than Pharmacist or the Sun rises from the West.

And why am I spending my time writing all these? I believe it’s my duty to fellow Malaysian to provide as accurate as possible the true picture and to correct any deliberate or non-deliberate misinformation by some questionable doctor posting questionable info in this forum. But I am also willing to accept what I posted may be wrong if someone can give me an logical explanation that’s based on facts and figures. I believe that’s the best way for me to update my own knowledge and the way forward. And I hope other people in this forum think the same.

As to who is eating whose cake. In advanced countries, majority of that cake belongs to the pharmacist so who is eating whose cake in Malaysia?

you said:

The pharmacist DOES NOT check the prescription. However, he dictates: “Have prescription will sell”. No prescription no sale. But how many times I have gone to a pharmacy to find the pharmacist on leave or gone to another branch. Probably there is time sharing because they have many outlets with a real shortage of qualified pharmacists.

Please note that a pharmacist’s license only enables him to practice in one particular branch only. So u r saying maybe that pharmacist is taking care of other branches, that is not true. That pharmacist might be away, and if they sell poison without the pharmacist’s supervision they are bound to be punished. This is the same with clinics operating on medical assistants alone. Now this reminds me of another discrimination against pharmacy. Our license won’t allow us to practice in other outlets, which means that our health policy makers believe our knowledge is only valid when we are in the outlet where our licenses entitle us to practice. Doctors are allowed to do locum, but pharmacist are not, that’s the reason why sometimes there are no pharmacists in one outlet. Pharmacists also get sick, but they can’t find people to replace because our health policy thinks we are super humans.

U said,

AS such, pharmacies may not keep stock of all the drugs that all the doctors in say Klang Valley prescribe.

If u understand how our market works. When there is a demand, there sure will emerge the supply. We don’t need to argue on issues like pharmacies don’t operate 24hr, don’t have enough staff, not enough pharmacies…Those are all the excuses used by doctors, including Dr. Chua Soi Liap. There is no doubt that he has a lot of doctor friends.

you said,

Not true: Both doctors and pharmacists have equal opportunity to travel.

Can’t u see the difference there? Doctors take no risk to earn a trip, they just earn it by prescribing espensive medicines. My ex boss only earned a trip after buying one particular brand of medicine for RM30,000++, and mind u, the stock will expire in a mere 2 years. I don’t envy him. I even pity him because one box of this medicine costs RM 185, he only sells it at RM200. And it’s a Group C medicine, so there is no ’selling without prescription’ issue here.

U said,

If doctors are NOT allowed to “sell” drugs patients would suffer.

Ur assumption reminds me of MCA and UMNO. They said if u dun vote us, there will be no development, our country is going to be in dire state, nobody is going to voice up for chinese community and fight for their rights and so on. So do u see any survey in the U.S. that reveals that most Americans attribute their suffering to “dispensing separation”? I nearly suffocate myself from supressing laugh.

YB Lim Kit Siang now you hear us please do not let people like EJB twisting your mind anymore. Pharmacists have every reason to be angry. I have no choice because I am already in this profession.

Pharmacist want that cake, Doctor deny them, Pharmacist seek help from MOH, the end result, Rakyat suffer. All pharmacist get or no get Rakyat still suffer because MOH not doing anything to improve both. To make peace merge the two, “Pharma-clinic” you can choose your drugs, and also seek consultation. A scenario whereby the elder brother is a Doctor, and the younger is a Pharmacist, both can combined the business into “Pharma-Clinic” the Rakyat can benefit. The main purpose not for profit but to serve Rakyat too. The problem is money is root of all evils. Same with the BN coalition govt. these leaders are good but when come to money, you and i know, at the expense of whom?

Google and you will come across many such cases being reported all over the world and the same thing is happening in Malaysia. May be there are but I hasn’t come across similar case for pharmacist. While it’s normal for commercial company to reward merchants selling large amount of their product, even my friend selling agricultural product get to go to China free trip, but for doctor to prescribe an expensive product for the sack of prescribing because he is influenced by those free dancing girl and NOT because it’s in the best interest of the patient is poor professional ethic.

So there you have it. A few grandma may be taking some expensive heart medicine not because she needed it but because of some free dancing girl. And the saddest part is, the grandma has no choice in that decision because it’s made by the doctor and given by the doctor. She wasn’t given a second opinion or double checked by some pharmacist. Heck, she probably wouldn’t be told what she is taking anyway because the doctor don’t have time to tell her and the Form 5 girl at the dispensing counter in the clinic hasn’t a clue anyway about side effect and drug-drug interaction. But let me make it very clear…..not all doctors are unethical and the very vast majority are excellent. But like every profession, there are black sheep and there are those with questionable ethic & wisdom including those that give misleading information to mislead the general public in this very forum. And that’s why we must have a Check & Balance mechanism and giving the pharmacist (universally recognized all over the advanced Western countries to be more informed than doctor on medicinal product and anyone saying otherwise is ethically suspect) that checking right. To say pharmacist is only giving out medicine is totally misleading because should anything goes wrong with the medication he gave out; he is professionally and legally responsible. He is not supposed to act as a Form 5 girl in clinic and Malaysian shouldn’t expect pharmacist to earn a Form 5 girl salary either.

Now you may ask, aren’t pharmacists getting to see those free dancing girls too? Yes, they are also given incentive just like my agricultural product selling friend. But there is very important different here and that’s called “CHOICE”. Having and able to exercise your choice is a fundamental human right and Lim Kit Siang know that extremely well and fighting very hard for that. Thank you, Lim Kit Siang. With pharmacy, if he wanted to sell you expensive Panadol because he wanted to see the free dancing girl, the Malaysian patient will always say…..”wow, so expensive, do you have cheaper type of Panadol?” And sure enough, you will be given a choice to either buy the expensive Panadol or the cheap generic equivalent and pay accordingly. I don’t see anything wrong with that, legally and professionally. After all, we are in a democratic country and thank god and people like Lim Kit Siang to keep that flame burning. And also to have all doubts, different opinions etc being freely expressed in this forum and get the truth out.

Things like drugs can be get at a cheaper price in a clinic was due to the fact that doctors do get a better deal/discount on some drugs compared with pharmacist, reasons? Ask those pharmaceutical company. Moreover, a doctor can get earn through consultation fee, but there is no consultation fee for seeing a pharmacist, therefore pharmacist will need to earn through other way.

Doctor do study Pharmacology, but how much do they learn compared with a Pharmacist ? I know how to drive a car and M.Schumacher also know, but the difference is the driving skill he has got is more than me…that is the main point, both Dr and RPh have different specialized skills and they work together for the benefit of patients!

To all Malaysian, medication error can be very minor, but it can also be life-threatening. Pharmacist is your another barrier for preventing this from happening, pharmacist with dispensing right will be a win-win situation for all of us.

i wrote: we check, if doc wrote wronglly… we CALL, we telephone to clarify (to answer lakilompat saying ‘nurses’ will ask doc blah blah blah)

if you’re the pharmaceutical company, tell me what’s the rasionale behind giving better incentives to pharmacists over docs… sorry to say u dont even have a good biz accumen! comeon, doc recomends new drugs and those pharmaceutical guys needs them more! simple as that.

a thriving biz will stick to their main inventory, those struggling will tend to add in more to supplement, to stay afloat, to survive. pharmacy without sole rights to dispense cannot survive solely on medicine. hey, inventory control is no child’s play… overstock, expiry, pilferage, capital tie down etc. r u in biz yourself anyway?

Guardian Pharmacy?… they r not UMNO cronies, for heaven’s sake! u r funny!

In the justice system, the enforcement (police) cannot be the judge and executioner and neither can the judge be the enforcer nor the executioner.

In the business accounting process, you always need an external auditor to verify the books.

In governance, the Parliament needs the Senate to perform check and balance and vice-versa.

In prescribing medicine don’t we need a check and balance as well?

Doctors are after all only human and are just as capable of making mistake.

“When bulk purchases of drugs are made, bonuses may be given by suppliers to the purchasers, irrespective of whether they are doctors or pharmacists.” Quote from Dr. Milton Lum.
My suggestion is to continue as before that is, doctors are allowed to prescribe but willing to write prescription if the patient opts to buy medicines outside.
In doctors are NOT allowed to “sell” drugs patients would suffer.
1. We must have noticed that pharmacies are not only selling drugs. In fact, the pharmacies contain in volume more vitamins, supplements, toiletries, health foods and nuts. The “dispensary” is a small portion of the shop usually at the back of the shop. The list goes on. AS such, pharmacies may not keep stock of all the drugs that all the doctors in say Klang Valley prescribe.
2. Patients would be flocking to the pharmacies in town. The problem of getting the drug required in just one pharmacy nearby becomes real since the stock would quickly diminish with greater demand.
The pharmacies especially those with almost a hundred branches all over Malaysia with names we are getting familiar with are very rich and influencial. Hence, their voice would be heard. Whereas, the medical doctors do not have a powerful voice to be heard except for their association. As such, I believe despite all of our views, the final decision by the powers that decide is a foregone conclusion.